Well, hello my outdoorsy friends. It's your favorite time of the week. That's right. It's time to head to the official Gear garage of Gear Abbey Garage Grown Gear. Our friends over at GGG are here to make sure that all of you, my outdoorsy friends, can get the newest outdoor stuff that you need for your next adventure. What kind of stuff, you ask? Well, I got some examples for you. Ready to get gourmet in the backcountry? You're going to want to check out new dehydrated meals from Luxe Fly made without unnecessary fillers. You can eat hearty and without the risk of unwanted gaseous emissions. That's important for me. Very, very important. Do you want to be special and have the thing that nobody else does? I bet you do. Well, pick up a limited small batch Sam Bob microgrid hoodie. I love Sam Bob. You can customize them. They're great. Anyway, lastly, did you know that tent steaks perform better if they have their own bag that they can sleep in just like you? It's true. That's why you should pick up a zippered steak bag by Pond's Edge llc. Whatever you're looking for, Garage Grown Gear and Gear Abbey are the perfect outdoor combo. So get shopping by heading over to garagegrowngear.com right now. You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers now that's hard to find like the what and the why in the house doesn't work or just where to go to avoid all the jerks she's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abby, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure and taboo topics. Plus a lot more that other podcasts refuse to touch. I'm outdoor educator and writer Shantae Salibair, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all. Because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, my repeat listeners, you know how this works. You're going to send questions to dear gear abby gmail.com and I'm going to answer a couple each week here on the show. And as always, join me today. The moment you've been waiting for, my partner in Gear, the producer of Gear Abby and a man who has single handedly destroyed my Instagram algorithm, Colin.

True, I would argue I've significantly improved your Instagram algorithm. I find all the things that I know you find funny and I Send them to you.

There's just so much poop in my Instagram. Right. Like, so many poop jokes.

Now listen, you know, use the laid claim to the title of, you know, Poop Master 2025 or whatever it is.

I have never laid claim to that. I am disowning that right now.

I think the words, you know, we can't talk about poop enough on the podcast, like, definitely came out of your mouth at one point. So.

All right, that's probably true. Oh, man, I love right now. It has. Colin, I know you and I live in different counties in Southern California, and we're having different experiences, but we have finally entered barely. Very barely. We've entered the rainy season.

We have.

Do you have. I feel like you are the kind of person that has opinions on everything. So are you a rain guy? What's your deal?

Oh, I'm definitely a rain guy. I. I liked living in the Northwest. My wife didn't like it so much. That's one reason we left. But. And I don't really miss the constant rain, but I do like it when it rains. I will defend Southern California when it comes to the rain, though, because I used to get very upset when I'd see people like, in, you know, when I live, other places where it snowed, they'd be like, oh, my God, it's going to rain in Southern California. And the locals here would, like, freak out about rain. But if you really put it into perspective, if you grew up here and, you know, 352 days a year, it doesn't rain, it's kind of with your head a little bit. And it would be really, really difficult to make that adjustment one on a daily basis. And also driving also, by the way, in the. In the Northwest, we. When it doesn't rain in the summertime and then the rain comes back in the fall, people act like it hasn't rained before. And it's like. It's like it's been three months, people, and now it's gonna rain for nine months. What are we doing? So it's funny how that goes away. So, yeah, I will defend the hysteria that we experience in Southern California when the rain comes through.

That's right. That's right. I think it is fair. It is warranted. The only time I've been in a car accident was actually during a gentle rain. It wasn't even hard rain during a gentle rain when the car behind me was so freaked out, they just ran right into me at a stop.

My God, it's raining.

Yep. Yep. Yeah. So I get it. I get it. But I don't know. I'm. I. I love that our rain here is the kind of rain where I could just go. Actually go walk. If I could walk in the rain and I don't have to feel like I'm being pummeled by, you know, like the gods have opened the skies. It's actually nice.

I like everything else in Southern California. Even our rain is good.

Even our rain is good. I'm feeling good. You know, I like. I like that we brought the California rain into the equation. It's like another. Like a guest host today. Guest hosting with us just silently in the background. If you hear that pitter patter, it's beautiful.

I'll add that in post.

Yeah, just add it in.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

That's right. We could do anything at post.

You can. It's amazing.

That's right. It's one of your many, many talents. I know at. Another one of your many talents is. Is asking questions very well. So why don't we kick that off? Yeah.

I don't want to bring you down a notch from your. Is it Pluv. What's the. What's the phrase? If you're a arena file pl. I can't know. I can remember UV alight. There it is. I think you got it right. Yeah, you're close enough.

Some, like, brain nerd is going to email us and be like, you were absolutely.

Please tell us how. I didn't even get the wrong pronunciation. I didn't get the word out at all. But this question might bring you down a little bit because this first question says, dear Gear Abby, this might be a morbid question, but is it legal to spread someone's ashes in a national park? Drawing up my will right now, and I don't want to suggest something inappropriate if it's not allowed. Signed Denise J. Wow.

I like that you are minding your P's and Q's even in the afterlife, Denise. A true steward of the land. All right. I also like that you asked this question, and I. I don't think it's morbid at all. I mean, honestly, I think most Americans are very reluctant to talk about death, including their own at all. Which means that people, I think, are just kind of lost when it comes to the end of a loved one's life and don't know really what to do. So personally, I think it's a great idea to not just plan ahead, but also tell people, you know, what your wishes are, which actually Reminds me that I've been meaning to drop a will for a while now, so I should probably take my own advice. After we're done with this show, I'm going to write it on my endless to do list. Yes. So, all right, great question. Here's the deal. Honestly, I was completely prepared to tell you that, no, this is not legal, but I am actually quite surprised and delighted to report that it is absolutely fine in most of the parks.

I'm shocked.

I know, right? I honestly thought this was going to be like a big. No, no. I was like, this is going to be a quick.

That I was going to share about how I probably broke the law doing this exact thing, but maybe I didn't. Maybe this whole time you've just been.

A legal eagle the whole time. Good job, Boy scout. Yeah, I mean, one of the few places that doesn't. So, Colin, if you. If you scattered your remains, not yours, you're still here. You're intact. If you scattered those remains in the Grand Canyon, you were doing something illegal. Was it safe there?

No, that's not where I was. No.

Okay, good job. Good job. Yeah. Because that was actually a decision made in conjunction with the local tribes, since it's not a practice in line with their own cultural and spiritual traditions. So I. I think that's totally fine. I mean, it's a great reminder to be thoughtful about where you choose to sprinkle your beloved nature nerd grandma. Sorry about that. There. There are a few caveats, though, for the other parks. So, first of all, like most things done on federally owned land, you're going to need a permit for that, at least in most of the parks. So not all of them. I was absolutely delighted, once again, so much delight in this first morbid question to discover that my loved ones will not need to deal with any red tape in order to just fling me around Sequoia Kings Canyon, which is my personal dream eternal resting place. I know. So, yeah, just. I'm just locking that down in case I forget to drop the will. Now, everybody listen to the podcast. Colin knows of you listeners know my. My gear mom and my stepdad are going to be listening to this episode. You'll find out why soon. Anyways, the majority of the parks that do require a little light bureaucracy, you're going to apply for a special use permit, which some of you will remember from the whole can I get married in Yosemite question about half this podcast lifetime ago. So basically, you're going to fill that out by explaining your activity scattering human remains you're going to. It does sound morbid. You're. And you need to have. You need to be the. The actual owner of those ashes, by the way. You can't just steal ashes and spread them somewhere, you know, just for legal reasons. I'm sorry. You can't just break into a mausoleum. So you're going to fill that out, send it in, and wait patiently for your golden ticket to scatter town. Okay. The nice thing is it seems like most parks actually waive the normal special use permit fees because they probably figure you've already been through enough. So once you're approved, you also have to be thoughtful about how you lay your beloved to rest. So here's a few general guidelines. You got to keep the number of participants to a minimum. And by this, I mean the living participants. I don't see anywhere with their listing that you can't just have a multi scattering. Okay? So you can have multiple ashes, but just. Just a small number of people there to witness. And I mean, this is probably one of the most important things. You gotta choose a location that is far enough away from all the other people enjoying their blissful day in the park with their children or whatever this means. Stay away from trails, roads, campgrounds, you know, any other aspect of the built environment. And you can't release ashes into any waterway. So no matter what Uncle Bob requests, he is not getting shot straight into heaven via Hot Ride and Old Faithful. Okay.

I don't think Old Faithful goes that high anyway, so. Bob, you're just be disappointed.

I feel like there's a propulsion aspect though. And Bob, you know, being lighter than the water, Bobby probably gain some air, you know, maybe not make it all the way to heaven, alas. And so you really do need to scatter them also. You can't just leave them on a pile somewhere. You're not just creating a shrine. You can't bury them. Okay? And to that point, you can't also leave any sort of grave marker. What you can do is save a pin on your GPS so you can come back and pay your respects in the future. But yeah, don't leave any signs that your dearly departed was ever there. Okay? The idea is for them to become one with the environment and for the rest of their afterlife. Okay, There you have it. Enjoy the ultimate trip planning. Denise.

You know, or, or, or, or no, you gotta go compost. I'm not down with. I was a cremation guy and now I'm a compost guy. Well, compost me. No, my nephew actually works for Like, I don't know, a cemetery. And they offer services. And basically there is a. He's in Pennsylvania. And there is a way now that they basically plop you in a plot of land and you decompose the way you're supposed to. And it happens really quick. And that's. And actually then you do. Your nutrients are returned to the earth. If you burn yourself up. Well, even if they, like, plant a tree on you, if you burn yourself up, the tree won't grow. That's like, grow around the pot of ashes because the ashes can't. Nothing can grow out of the ashes. So I'm pro composting.

I like that, you know? Yeah. Make me. I used to always say when I was. When I was younger, I'd be like, turn me into a diamond. But, yeah, I think just let me go at peace. Okay. Put me somewhere pretty and let me just, you know, enjoy.

So throw me in the back of the truck, drive me up to a national park, dump me on the front step, and just let me rot. It'll be fine.

Oh, man, that was so good. I love. I love that question. That was so. I live a little outside of the box, and I'm here for it.

Yes, I am as well.

Yeah. I feel like people love sending in these kind of adequate, adequate, adequate questions. I'm just adding syllables, adding some cues and some tease. Yeah, Yeah.

I had to scatter my grandmother's remains in Nahant harbor, off the coast of Massachusetts, from a kayak. That's where she want to go. And I lived there. And I was like, yeah, I'll do that. And then I got out there with the box, and I'm like, am I.

Supposed to be doing this?

That was very. And I'm like, rushing through. It was not a very.

There wasn't.

There was no moment where like, oh, look at this. And I'm scattering, and I'm like, just dump this shit and let's get out of here. I had to hightail it back to Schwartz. I thought I was going to get in trouble.

Oh, man. Maybe. Was your grandma the kind that would appreciate you committing one last sin for her?

Yeah, actually, she would be. She was kind of a surly lady, so she probably was happy that there was. I had the potential of getting in trouble with. With that.

Nice with that. Well, I don't want you to be in trouble here, so let's roll it along and get to another question.

All right, here we go. Dear Gear Abby. Do people have meet cutes on the trail in the mountains? Could One come back to civilization with a boyfriend, asking for a friend. We have a lot of people who ask for a friend around here. Signed Danielle with the one L. She's back.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. She was an early. An early writer in her.

So apparently Danielle also likes romantic comedies and a very romantic comedy view of the world of like, I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna meet the one. I've heard you mention that before, though, too.

I have. This used to be my Dr. I used to think, like, I was convinced when I stepped foot on the pct, I was like, I'm going to meet my love out here. Sadly, I have yet to find romance on the trail or honestly, any other outdoor scenario. But that doesn't mean it can't happen. Actually, that summer back in, I think it was 2015, when I was on the PCT the first time, I met two hikers whose names were True and Wet Patch. And yes, if you're wondering, he peed himself one night while he was drunk.

That's how he got Wet Patch.

That's how he got Wet Patch. Well, it was a young, young Australian kid, and it just was very fitting. But it seemed like every five seconds those two would be stopped up somewhere just cuddling under a tree. And it became kind of a joke in inside our little PCT bubble. Anyway, it was cute in that kind of, you know, pukey way.

Yeah, pukey way for sure.

But that same summer, I actually met a girl who had met a guy on trail, dated throughout the whole SoCal section, and then broke up in the Sierra. The Sierra will really test you.

And she's already think you had a whole relationship and all you did was hike on a trail. You did nothing else.

It's. You know, it is. You really do slip into another way of being when you're out there. I think it's. It's a lot like working at summer camp. Have you ever done that?

I did, actually. No, I never worked at a summer camp. Sorry. I attended a summer camp.

I did find romance at summer camp. That was probably the one outdoor place. Yeah. But no, she was so upset, she actually stopped hiking when they broke up. So, you know, these probably are not the best examples. Danielle with one L. But I do have a good one for you. A couple years back, I was hanging out at a lake on the pct. The PCT is a place for. I mean, people like to get, you know, the little fluttery butterflies out there. I started. I was sitting at this lake and I started Talking to a hiker named Bam, which is short, and I loved this for Badass Mama. Her daughter actually gave her that name. Love it. And she and I hit it off and we just started chatting and the rest of her crew kind of rolled up, including a guy named Bad Santa. And I do not know how he got his trail name, I'm so sorry to say. And we all just kind of sat around drinking this beautiful trail concoction that I ended up calling an old trash end, which is basically a mixture of orange flavored nun tablets, whiskey and lake water. That's how you make that delightful. You know what? That's probably how you're going to get romance out there.

Because why doesn't Noon use these things for their marketing when they're like, you know, like, well, we're at the Leadville 100. Like, no, no, no.

You're missing old Trash. And it's like both dehydrating and then it rehydrates you so you can't lose. You can't. It's. It's like status quo. You're just stasis. It's great. Yeah. It's also apparently a love potion because Bam was telling me that she had kind of, you know, she's like, I'm falling in love with Bad Santa. I feel like this is my man. And I really did think this was cute, especially since they weren't college kids. They were, you know, people probably, I'd say, close to middle aged. I don't really know either of their ages, but fully grown ass adults. And so I think when we think about love on trail, it's like all these 20 year olds just making out for the summer. But this was like, you know, grownups. And guess what? They are married now. And yep, yep, they got married. And Bam, whose real name is Amy pike, actually wrote a book about her time on trail, including that little love story. I also make an appearance in the book, which I thought was lovely. The book's called Hike youe Own Hike, and it just came out. I just got it. So I'm excited to read that. Uh, but yeah, you know, listen, Danielle, I'm going to be real with you. In my experience, you are honestly much more likely to make friends out there, and that's not a bad thing. Um, some of my favorite humans are people I met along trails. So, you know, in my opinion, if you want to find outdoorsy love, like somebody who enjoys doing the things you do, look for meetups, look for hiking groups, trail running groups. We all know all of the there's been, like, 700 articles about how people are dating and trail running groups. Um, just don't be the creep that's, like, harassing people. Make sure it's mutual, but basically, just find other people doing the things you like and just be yourself. And if you're specifically a hiker looking for other hikers to walk the great long trail of life with and you have an Instagram account, I actually suggest following an account called trailmate Connections, which is an online personals feed for all manner of dirt bags looking for human connections. So not just romance, you know, also friends and activity partners. And funny enough, one of those amazing friends that I've met while hiking this summer actually is the founder of trailmate. I was stunned because they're very secretive about who's actually behind the account. And when we met, we totally bonded. We were eating Cheetos, and we're like, wait. You wait. Shut up. And, yeah, now we're friends. We. We actually. They live really close to me, so we've actually gone out and. And hung out here in LA a couple times, which is magic.

And now you're getting married.

And now we're getting married. That's right.

I just feel bad that you had to bond over a subpar snack like Cheetos.

What?

Yeah, it's a shame for you guys.

I feel like we might have to end the podcast here. And now some opinions are meant to be kept in your head, Colin. You don't need to say everything out loud.

Well, listen, you know, if we're backpacking, I'm sure I would love any salty, cheesy, fake, well, overproduced snack, but just as a general rule, there's actually not.

That many ingredients in a cheese. You'd be surprised.

Yeah, except terribleness, you know?

Oh, my God. Frito Lay. Don't listen. I'm gonna just. Just to spite you, I'm gonna see if Frito Lay will sponsor a couple episodes next year.

That's welcome. You're welcome to sponsor us.

That's right. He actually loves you.

I love you now.

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All right, well, this is a little, little different question. We haven't had one in this arena so far. I love it here on the Gear Abby pod. So let's, let's see what you got for this one. Gear Abby. Here we go. Dear Gear Abby, I'm big into fishing, but only in the warmer months. And I recently inherited my wife's grandfather's entire ice fishing setup, which has me intrigued. I know you've talked about being from the Midwest, so maybe New Glarus Shout out. So maybe you know a little bit about this. My biggest question is how do I stay safe on the ice and how do I stay warm? My wife put the fear of God in me that I'll fall through the ice or I'll freeze my ass off out there. But I kind of want to prove her wrong. Signed, Bassmaster.

Well, I truly love helping people prove other people wrong when it comes to their abilities. So, Bassmaster, you. A, I love your name. B, you remember correctly that I am from the great state of Wisconsin. Go pack. Go. I also enjoy fishing, but a lot like you, I've never actually gone ice fishing. I've thought about it. I just haven't done it. But you know who has? Many, many times. My stepdad, Mike, who is so into the sport that he got my sister and I to watch more than one episode of John Gillespie's Water and Woods, which is billed as, wait for it, the Midwest's number one fishing show. Anyways, so phoning in from an.

Is it the only fishing show?

You know what, Colin? We're going to let it have the number one status.

I. And then it's earned.

You have it. Wait till you watch it. This is if you want me to watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

You're going to watch John Gillespie of John.

Yes.

I'm coming for you.

Let's go.

You're going to learn all about what a frable is. So. Yeah. Anyway, phoning in from an undisclosed location near Green Bay, Wisconsin. Again, Go pack. Go. My stepdad, Mike Giguello. Welcome to the show, Mike.

Thanks, Shades. Pleasure to be here.

That's right. Oh, and I should let listeners know, my family and friends back home actually call me Shay. So you're learning a whole new side of gear appy today. All right, so Bassmaster here has asked two questions instead of the one. So let's just start with the first one. How do you stay safe on the ice when you're ice fishing? Which is also a thing I've thought about a lot, actually.

I grew up with a fishing fanatic, so it was pretty easy for me to. To learn. I just kind of followed his footsteps. I would say the most important thing is to know the body of water you're fishing. There's. There's, there's a lot of different nuances to a. A lake and a body of water. You might have aerators under the water, which is going to keep the ice thinner in some spots. Things of that nature. Ice is never 100% totally safe. Talk to the locals before you venture out. And if you have no ice fishing experience, I was. There's websites out there where you can find people who would love to take you out ice fishing. Just, you know, get on, get online and. And find one of these people and go out with them. A lot easier than trying to learning on your own.

Oh, yeah, but is it like icefishing escorts.com.

Exactly.

Yeah. Very popular in The Midwest. I'm sure if you live somewhere cold, you can find one of those, help.

You stay warm in the hut. On the ice. Is that what.

That's right. Brown chicken, brown cow. This is wrong. We're talking about stepdad calling.

Well, you brought him on the show.

It's true. It's true. Mike can take a joke. He's. He's a funny guy. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, are people. Okay, so one more like I'm asking this question. Mike, when you go out on the ice, are you just walking out there, you know, in tennis shoes? Like, do you have to have special shoes or cleats or something for walking on frozen lakes? I'm just used to, like, I've. I know people who ice skate on lakes, but not a lot of people who are out there walking on lakes.

Yeah. Here in Wisconsin, there's usually snow covering the ice, so it's. It's pretty safe and easy to walk on it without cleats. But until you get a good snow cover, there's nothing like a good pair of creepers to attach to your boots to keep it from falling on your ass.

Creepers. I love that. I. I have never, ever heard that term before. So you have taught me something new, which I'm going to Google once we get off the call.

Watch that search history with your searching creeper.

Creepers. All right. So. All right, like I said, Bassmaster asked a twofer. We've got another question here, which is, how the heck do you stay warm out there? I know how I do it in the mountains in the winter, but I feel like sitting on a frozen lake all day is a whole different vibe. So what are your pro tips for staying warm while you're ice fishing?

If you live in the Midwest, which we do, you already have everything you need to spend a day on the ice. You probably have boots, warm clothing, a hat, a scarf, gloves, or mittens. I myself prefer mittens. Keep your hands a lot warmer, and they're easier to pull off when you get a fish on the end of your line. So there's really no special equipment required, but there is no end to the equipment you can purchase to keep you warm on the ice.

I mean, I've seen your garage.

Yeah, there's heated suits, there's portable ice shacks. I. I myself have two portable ice shacks.

Fancy heater?

Yeah. Yeah. Very fancy heaters that you can take into the shacks. There's suits. Just. Just anything you can imagine to keep you warm out on the ice. If you Go out there and you freeze, you're not going to have fun.

That's not. I mean, that's true. I like the idea I'm imagining, because I know, like, the. The ice shacks you're talking about, people call them shanties, right? Am I thinking the same thing?

Yes.

Yeah. I, I. My vision. I've always wanted to go in one of them, so maybe I will have to make that dream come true this winter when I'm home. But, yeah, I'm envisioning, like, a little cabin on the ice at this point. Like, somebody's building a little tiny house on the lake. I can roll with that.

Actually, there's. There's a lot of lakes that do have rental ice houses that you can go out there and stay for three or four days, five days. Oh, yeah. They have, you know, comfortable beds and. And heaters and TVs and. And just everything you need to. To spend four or five days on the ice. They're pretty amazing. They'll even deliver you meals.

What? That's wild. All right. Yeah, we were, you know, we just had an episode or two where we talked about people who wanted more bougie, like, luxury outdoor experiences. So I feel like that fall, like, falls right in the realm. Wow. All right, well, Mike, I have a final question for you before we say goodbye for now, and that is. This is a tough one. This is maybe the toughest one of all. Of all of this. What do you like better, ice fishing or pierogi?

Shay? That's so unfair. Unfair? You got a dark side.

All right, I won't make you answer that, Sophie.

I love them both equally.

Oh, okay. All right, well, I'll let you pass with that this time. We may have to have a deeper discussion when I get home. I like that I heard mom laughing in the background. Gear. Mom is also on the call. All right, well, Mike, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate this. I think this is. Is this your first podcast appearance?

Yeah.

All right, well, we may have to have you back. Not probably the last. We'll find another question for you. All right, well, thanks, Mike. Have a great rest of your day, and I will talk to you guys later.

All right, see you soon.

We still got one more question to go, so you want to launch. Launch it at me?

I do. This is one I may have to ask and then leave the recording booth because I have so many opinions on this topic. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna do my best just to sit here and be quiet.

Oh, boy.

And Bite my tongue.

Okay, you can do it.

Dear Gear Abby, wondering about your advice on rain shells. When are you using which shell type? Are there occasions when you prefer a poncho over a jacket? What are your must haves on every shell? Talking about features, weight pockets, ventilation, hood sleeve, waist adjustments, waist adjustment, and such things. In regards to technologies, are you a Gore Tex fan, pro or performance? Are you more into Infinium, Windstopper, Hardshell? How about alternatives?

Wow.

Dermasaxes. I'm sure about that one. Which could also handle water drops instead of water steam like Gore Tex. Are you more into the group of less expensive non branded fabrics that are still perform. That still perform really well? Let's say Marmot Marmot membrane. Wow, that's an offensive name for you. And that's signed Not Killian, formerly known as Marcus in the Alps, who framed this as asking for a friend. Why doesn't anyone want to ask their own questions?

Just ask your own questions. You can come up with a fake name.

That's hilarious. Wow, man, Quite the question. Marcus. Excuse me, not Killian.

Listen, not Killian. We don't kink shape on this podcast, even though Colin clearly wants to kink shame you for all of the special fabrics you mentioned.

Yes.

I'm curious that you feel free to jump in at any time, Colin. I know you're a materials guy. You know Colin used to work for Polar Tech, which y' all learned when we talked about Alpha a couple episodes ago. But I love. The best thing about this is that this question was sent over the course of several messages, which I think is cheating at this point since it's like two entire episodes worth of questions. Not Killian, but whatever. I do appreciate that you keep writing in. So we're gonna do this lightning round style. First of all, rain shell versus poncho. The only time I'm using a poncho is because I'm out somewhere like a concert or a theme park, and I forgot to bring an actual rain shell. So I have to buy one of those overpriced flimsy plastic ones that makes you feel like you're walking inside a produce bag. I'd say unless you're carrying a poncho that's heavy enough, I'm thinking here of something like the Six Moon Designs Gatewood cape, especially since that'll fit over a backpack pretty easy and you can use it as a shelter. So. Double use. Yeah. Unless you're carrying something like that, it's just gonna flap around so much that you're probably going to end up wet. Anyways. I'm seen it so many times out on the trail. So I always carry a rain shell into the back country. For three season backpacking trips, I use an ultralight one. My current is a Mont Bell Versalite jacket which I've had for probably eight years and I only just retreated it this summer with Nik Wax. I use the TX direct waterproofing spray for winter hikes, snowshoes, you know, cross country ski, backpacking trips, whatever. I use a slightly more substantial hard shell. And my study writer for years has been a really, really old marmot. I thought it was a preset, but I don't think it is actually. I think it's a different jacket, but it's a size larger than what I normally wear. That way I could just kind of pile layers on underneath. Is it the fanciest shell in existence? No. Does it keep me dry? Yes. All right. Colin is like, his lips are just pursed together like he's really holding it in right now.

You're crushing it. I'm just, I'm just sitting here. It's okay. You're doing great.

Okay. All right. So features. I'm looking for 10, no notes. Keep going. Okay. Okay. All right. So for me, a rain shell is just that. It's a shell layer that's going to keep the rain off my core. So I don't really need it to keep me warm or transform into a tent or look cute in a bar. So I'm pretty minimal in what I look for. If I'm buying a new coat, which I haven't in a while, as you just discovered. Basically, I want this. I want a hood that cinches down with enough room for a helmet underneath. I want sleeves that are long enough to cover my entire wrist. And that can be cinched clothes in some way. Cause I don't want snow getting up there. Um, I want it to be long enough and wide enough to sit over my hips, which can be a real problem if you're somebody with a booty, if you're somebody with hips, if you're somebody with a belly. Like I really still to this day. I was thinking about buying a new rain jacket this year. And I tried on men's, I tried on women's. Like, I could not find a rain jacket at a certain large outdoor company's store that would fit me. Patagonia. And I am what I would consider to be just an average. I'm an average sized person, you know, 10, 12 in women's. So that was really weird to Me, because every rain jacket had to sit above my hips. So I know I've been working on my. Yeah, I really have been. And. And the booty is bootying, but come on, man.

Unless it's like a bike or run version of a shell like that, it should cover your butt or at least. At least down to at least cover the top of your butt.

And that shouldn't even be the cheeks, at least. You know, I don't think I'm asking too much here.

You're not.

Thank you. I also want it to have a pocket on either side and, you know, a zipper that's big enough to be used even when I have thick gloves on. So not one of those little tiny things. And I want it to be. This is gonna be shocking. Waterproof, not water resistant. And, you know, honestly, whenever I'm buying new clothing or gear, I'm trying to choose items that are made with sustainability in mind, both materials and process. And for me, it's a bonus, but not necessary if it has pit zips for ventilation. But I found that for me, I'm gonna sweat regardless, so it doesn't matter.

Exactly.

Yeah. All right. So far, so good, Colin.

Excellent. Yes. I'll say. I'll say my. I'll say my comments for the end. You're doing great.

Just champing up the bit here.

Of course, it's Gia. Abby, I can't. Come on, you always have the right answer.

Wow, I'm glad we have that recorded. So I could just play that when I'm.

Except when it comes to Cheetos, but it's okay.

That's not correct. But anyway. All right, so finally, not Killian. We're going to get into your very, very, very detailed materials question. This is where I think Colin's really going to delight in jumping in. You could still find, like, the old school way of doing this was waxed canvas. Those still exist, but most people are spending. You know, if you're spending a lot of time in the backcountry, you want something lighter than that. That's pretty heavy. Gore Tex has always been kind of the standard bearer. You mentioned that. So you asked about their pro versus performance fabrics. And I am always going to go performance because it's lighter and theoretically a little more breathable, which is good for when you're doing active activities. You're hiking, you're biking, whatever. If I was doing something like mountaineering, I probably would opt for the pro because it's just a lot more durable. So you're probably not going to get as Many abrasions and things like that that you also mentioned Gore's Infinium material, which is actually called Wind Stopper now by the way. And that's because it's windproof, not waterproof. Although it is water resistant. So that's not. I'm not choosing that for my rain jacket. And as far as proprietary materials, the Mon Bear, I like that. My go to when I flub is just saying I left one of those.

In, in the last episode because it was just. It was so good. I'm like, I believe this is great.

It's. It's totally like a subconscious tick. I do not know why I do that other than enjoying family style Italian.

I usually just swear at myself when I can't get through a line like, God damn it, Colin.

Oh my gosh. But yeah, so the Mont Bell weird tongue twister. I don't know why I just had a trouble with that. The Mont Bell Versalite uses a proprietary material called in all caps, Super Dry Tick. You have to. It needs that. It needs like a, like a Law and order thumping sound. But it's a three layer system that's meant to be waterproof, wind resistant and breathable. And it's worked just fine for me. But at the end of the day, not. Killian, don't over complicate it. You do not need to buy a top of the line fancy rain shell to stay dry out there. Just remember, take care of whatever jacket you do pick. Keep it clean if it has a DWR coating, which most of them do these days, revive or replace it every so often. And remember, like the idea of finding something breathable. You're wearing a shell jacket, you're going to be sweaty under there if you're not managing your layers underneath. So that's really like. I don't need pit zips. I don't need the fabric to be super breathable. I need to actually manage what I have on underneath it. So I think if you keep all that in mind, just don't overcomplicate it. If you have a jacket that already works, keep using it.

The last thing you said, the summary is spot on. And the thing about this stuff is think about your. What are you using it for? And what do you need now? Number one, Gore Tex. All these things that say they're breathable, they are not breathable. They rely on moisture vapor transfer, which I don't know about you. I don't. When I sweat, I get liquid on my body.

It happens to me every time I sweat.

So that moisture so There is no breathability. There's no air that permeates through the membranes. Now there are fabrics like neoshell from Polartech and a few other ones that kind of make that are breathable. But even then it's so like the airflow that goes through is so minimal that you still will sweat before the moisture can pass through. So if it comes to like, hey, I'm going to be going out for a two hour bike ride or a run, that's where water resistant or something that is actually more breathable, you just need a little bit of protection because it's going to rain on you.

Yeah.

There do that. If you're going to do. If you're going to pull a gear Abbey and you're going to be out backpacking, you want the most bomber thing possible because the chances of you like wearing this for an entire day and getting rained on, you want to keep, to keep you dry. So it really comes down to what do you want to do? Don't overcomplicate it. And like Shantae said, one shell. Like you said, you're. What's your youngest shell in your collection?

Youngest baby shell. Eight years old.

Fine.

You know that's right. That baby, that. Speaking of like crazy rain, that baby got me through like a six rainstorm day on the Colorado trail. So that's when I knew I could trust that jacket for life.

Yeah. And most of them is living at the bottom of your pack and you don't bring it out unless, uh. Oh, here comes the rain.

Well, that's it for this episode of Gear Abby. Next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes over to DearGearAbbyMail.com I'm going to do my best to answer them or maybe pull my stepdad in again. And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe rate and review to support the pod and personally make my day. And follow us on Instagram at gearabypod to see all the weird things I post there in the middle. Meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and my buddy Colin True art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. I'm Shantae Salibair and remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.