Janice Porter: Deb, hello everyone and welcome my guest
today is Deb Porter, a really dear friend of mine, I believe.
And even though we haven't known each other that long, I feel
like we have, and I think that's a tribute to her communication
skills, and in in in particular, listening, alright, this is
Deb's Bailey wick. I love that word and not, not used very
often. So first of all, welcome to the show, Deb.
Deb Porter: Thank you so much, Janice. I'm excited to be here,
Janice Porter: my pleasure, and so excited to have you. So in
your in your bio, you talk about, you think that soft
skills need to be reframed or re coined as essential skills, and
I totally agree with you. Back in the day, when I was working a
contract position for a long time as a trainer in the
telephone company, I used to teach soft skills, and those in
that context were telephone, courtesy, customer service,
things, listening was one of the things that was part of my my
course that I taught, and how to deal with difficult customers
and all these things. How can we say these are soft skills. They
are so totally essential to be able to work, communicate and
and, you know, treat people well. They're very, very
important. And so I know that in your company, I want you to tell
me about how this came about for you and how the focus is in
hold, hearing out life drama, which is the name of your
company, has become your mission. And so talk to me about
that. Oh my goodness. Tell my viewers about why should it be
an essential skill? Talk to me about that.
Deb Porter: Well, first of all, I don't know if your listeners
might know, but in 1969 that's actually from the army, from the
military. That's where the the term soft skills was coined. And
so, yes, so I actually researched that, because I was
like, I need to know, where did this come from, and why, and why
has it stuck? And so I think because it was, you know, a
government term. And, you know, across our nation, it really
spread, and it dug into our to our frame of business. And I
just feel like what you said so beautifully in your example,
from you know, your earlier position, that communication is
life altering in all aspects of the business, whether it's in
customer service or in in sales or or whatever. So, yeah, how
did I so? How did I end up here? My background and training is
actually as a United Methodist pastor. I have a 96 hour master
divinity degree with a specialization in care and
counseling. That's where I get the the knowledge and the
authority to do what I do. And then, of course, through my
life, I've built upon that. I'm now 52 and I was working at a
funeral home. When I had the idea for my business, the
funeral home changed the compensation package they were
offering, and I was like, Okay, if I can do anything in my life
right now, what is it that I really want to do? And what came
to me as I was holding my towels was really, what if I just
listen? What if I just listen? I mean, it's so basic and so
human, but that's, that's kind of me, and that's who I am. I'm,
I'm really down to earth. And so, yeah, so I built a business
around listening,
Janice Porter: amazing, really. But listening isn't just
listening. There. There are many ways that we listen or don't
listen. So Can you expound on that a little bit?
Deb Porter: So a lot of times, people think that listening
starts with the other person, and what I teach is it does not
listening starts with you, and you have to come into a
conversation calm and ready to hear. And I think that's the
piece that most people don't get or and it can throw them off,
because if you haven't taken the time to be calm and centered at
the beginning of an interaction, then you're not able to stay
focused and clear through, throughout so
Janice Porter: well, I would say today, what comes to mind when
you say that is, it's we make it so much harder for ourselves
today, for ourselves today with that exact example, because the
minute we sit down at a at a meeting or whatever, our phones
on our desk or on the table, and that's a distraction from the
word go. And I watched a great Simon Sinek video one time about
cell phones and and, and he said something like, and don't think
that because you turn your phone upside down on the table that it
makes any difference, your phone does not belong there. You know,
in that meeting, and we all do it. I did it last night. We I
was at a dinner thing, which was a networking event, and I saw
that some few of the other girls had put their phone out there.
Because sometimes, like I, I use it as an example to show. To
this LinkedIn tool that I use with the with the QR code that
people have, and I want to share it with them if it comes up,
but, and I don't have business cards anymore, because I use my
phone as that, but, but it's not right, because it's distracts us
from listening, from what I know you call them, what I know to be
active listening. Yes, right? Yeah, exactly,
Deb Porter: yeah. So active. So what do we mean when we're
talking about active listening? What does that exactly mean? So
active listening is the art of fully engaging both with content
and emotion. Let's to do the definition. That's my
definition. The I'll say it again, the art of fully engaging
with the content and the emotions. So I think a lot of
times, I've had questions come back from people and they're
saying, you know, this person just keeps going on and on and
on and on and on. I just don't get why. They don't understand
that I'm hearing them. And what I offer is are, are you making
sure to reflect back to them the feeling of what they're saying?
Because you you're getting the content, but unless they
understand that the feeling is also heard, they're not going to
be able to move on. So and then I see light bulbs come on. They
go, Oh no, I didn't actually well.
Janice Porter: And also they that kind of person finds it
difficult to not interrupt, but to get into the flow of that
conversation, they let the person continue and continue and
continue. And sometimes people do that because they're nervous
or because they because the person that hasn't drawn right
hasn't been drawn in or whatever. So I think it takes
both parties for sure. But you you talked about you don't know
if you're being heard. And I think there's a difference
between hearing and listening 100% Yeah. Okay, so I just
wanted to clarify that, because I could hear you but not have
listened to anything you said. I remember when my daughter, one
of my daughters, was was little, and I was working and and I was
always, you know, distracted because I had to get lunches
made, or I had to get the dishes done, or I had to get dinner
made, or whatever. And that's the time after school between,
you know, when you're preparing dinner, when the kids will come
to you and want to share something with you, and you make
the mistake quite often of listening while you're doing
something else, but you're not really listening, so you miss
it, right? And it's not fair to the child. And I think I
remember, I think one time my daughter said to me, I'll tell
you later when you when, when I think you're listening, you
know? And then the light bulb goes on there, too, right? It's
like, oh, wait, I need to have full attention when I'm talking
and listening with my or having a conversation with my child.
That's so important, right? More than any of these business
things, as far as I'm concerned, but it's one of those examples,
right? Well, and
Deb Porter: I think it happens in business too. I can give you
an example from the funeral home. I experienced a colleague
who was frustrating me, and I finally it escalated to the
point where I felt I needed to go speak to the manager. I was
going to explode, which is very rare for me. Like, imagine how
extreme this was, because it was pretty rare for me. And so I
went and knocked on his door, and he was doing something, and
I said, I need some I need some of your time to talk about a
thing. Do you have time to do that? And he was like, typing
away doing something else he's like, but he, he was able to
say, give me one minute to finish this, and then I'll be
able to focus on you. And then he really did. He he shifted his
whole body language, everything he did let me know, okay, you
now have my full attention, and let's, let's really hear this.
And that's really powerful, because as a manager, he needed
to hear how to present, yeah, so. But you know, if he had just
said, Oh, well, you know what? What is it? And continued to
type his message, which he had done other times in the past,
and it was the way I framed it. I need your attention right now.
My experience with that was different, so I think managers
really need to tune in, pay attention. I mean, I think
parents too. There's not that we ever want to just ignore, but
really know those important we don't want to miss those
important moments ever well. And
Janice Porter: we're teaching that, that we're teaching that
way of doing things too. If we show that we're paying attention
fully, then they will learn to do the same, right? And I know
that when it comes to an old tool, the telephone, which I
still love to use, because that was my first go to when I was
first starting out in business, showing my age now, but the
telephone, and I still love the telephone, and when I call
somebody, and sometimes I do, sometimes I get a prompting to
call somebody, like I'm on LinkedIn and I'm looking at
something, and I see that they're online, or I so possibly
at their desk, and I'll just look and see if there's a phone
number, or if I you know. Um, I don't know. I just get a
prompting to call someone, but when I do, and I and if they
answer, the first thing I always say is, thank you so much for
picking up the bone, because it's such a rare thing. Although
I think it's coming back, I really do. However, when they
do, I do ask them, Do you have a couple of minutes? Because if
they don't, I'm not going to start rambling on, right?
Because then they're really not going to like it and they're not
going to listen. So that's, that's the key, right? Okay, so
you have the privilege of, in your work, listening to many
personal dramas through your platform. What are some common
themes that you've noticed in the stories that people share,
and how have these impacted your perspective on relationships?
Because, you know, I'm all about relationships.
Deb Porter: Yeah, so going to the B to C side of the business,
I'll shift shift my mindset a little bit the the common theme,
there's a lot of fear of judgment among people. And a lot
of people are coming and saying, you know, I just really couldn't
talk to my family about this. They wouldn't understand. Or I,
I knew they would give me advice when that's really not what I
need. Those, those two things are very common, on the person
the drum, yeah, on the personal side, on the drama side. Yeah,
okay, and yeah, is
Janice Porter: it? Is it easy? Do you believe then? Because I
do that, it's easier sometimes to talk to a stranger than it is
to talk to someone who's really close and has a bias already?
Deb Porter: Yeah, I think there's a place for both. And we
need both. We're humans. We need relationships, as you well know.
Yeah, so, but there are times that things come up and they're,
you know, family, friends or co workers, are too close to the
problem, like they're involved in it, or worse, they really are
the problem, and you can't talk to them about them about it.
You've already tried, and there hasn't been a resolution yet,
and it's still a little bit stuck. And so having the
opportunity then to really talk that through can be so
beneficial?
Janice Porter: Okay, let's shift it to the business side. Now a
little bit. How do you think listening and empathy skills,
essential for your platform, translate into stronger
professional relationships, especially in leadership or team
dynamics? Let
Deb Porter: me give you an example from a team training
that I did. The gentleman asked the question, how do I offer
empathy to the CEO who I just think is expletive deleted? And
I was like, well, that's great. That's a great question. How do
you do that? Like, what do you what do you think it's like in
his role right now? And so we really started to just think
about, have, have you had an opportunity to interact with
him, very much on a personal level? Have you Do you know much
about what the pressures are in his life, in his role? And I
started to offer questions and further, like develop that, and
kind of develop a persona of of a guy that he really hadn't seen
as a person. He saw him as this thing, but he didn't understand
that he might be responding as a as a result of the pressures he
felt in in the role, and he might actually be trying to
protect this gentleman. And he was missing that. He wasn't even
seeing that. And so we can develop empathy by really
looking all the way around what, what it is that they're
presenting us what, and then starting to wonder, okay, well,
how,
Janice Porter: what are they presenting? What
Deb Porter: are they exactly? Yeah, well, and that can get
tricky, because what you don't want to do is make assumptions
about people that's that's never better, but asking questions and
getting you know, curiosity, I know, is one of your things,
yeah, and so I think that's super important. When we get
curious and we we suspend our judgment a little bit, and we
start to look all the way around the problem, then we can get
somewhere, somewhere new and different, and have empathy,
exactly as you said, for for someone else that it's a
struggle with.
Janice Porter: Okay? So as someone who listens to life's
many dramas. How do you handle your own emotional balance while
being so involved in others experiences?
Deb Porter: So as I stated at the beginning, I am a spiritual
person. So that's that's a part of who I am and what I do. And
so I have a very strong meditation practice that I start
my morning with, and I understand that if I don't take
care of me, I don't have anything to pour out of so
before this conversation, you may have noticed that I was into
the Zoom Room five minutes ahead of time, and so I was already
doing some centering things for myself before this conversation
to make sure I was at my best to be able to present to you and
your audience something that was really powerful,
Janice Porter: perfect. Thank you. So what are your hopes for
the future of hold hearing out life drama? I know I think
you've got some exciting projects or collaborations on
the horizon, anything you'd like to share with us?
Deb Porter: Oh my goodness. So I'm really excited about the
part. Partnerships with lawyers that we've got started, and the
whole concept around that is, you know, lawyers are went into
it because they wanted to uphold the law and help people and but
as I understand their background and training, they were taught
the law, but they weren't necessarily taught the emotional
intelligence skills, and so a lot of them got thrown into the
deep end without knowing how to do the active listening and the
emotional intelligence piece is really required. And they can
feel really overwhelmed by all of that. It can feel like, for
example, one, one woman wrote, you know, I just spent the last,
I don't know, six months, nine months, on this woman's case,
and I wrote 85 I think it was 85 emails. It was a ridiculous
amount. And, you know, answering, showing up in court,
doing all the things, and she won and and the Google review
that she left was that I did a good job. Like, what, what do
these people want from me? And what, what people want from you
is really that active listening and that emotional intelligence,
and when you present that, that's what's really going to
connect and give you that excellent review. Yeah, for
sure. Okay, so
Janice Porter: we're talking about a specific type of
attorney here, or lawyer, a divorce and family lawyer, okay,
and, and I know exactly what you're talking about. They, they
can come across as very stiff or very left brain, all left brain,
right? You don't see any emotion. But now I forgot what I
was going to say. What was I going to say? Oh, that is the, I
don't know. There's a fine line right between them, having to be
in control for you when you're having all the emotional upset
about what you're going through, but that empathy piece again,
come needs to be there. You know, I can know you're
listening to me, but I don't know that you actually care, or
I'm just another case number. So that's the important piece for
me. I think there, and I've been through through that, so I I
totally identify. But do you find that the lawyers or
attorneys that you're that are coming your way are female, or
are they male and female?
Deb Porter: At this time, I see a lot more interest on the how,
on, on the male side, I would say it's probably, uh, 7525 75%
male. It's, it's strongly leaning that way in terms of the
business. It also strongly leans that way in terms of my, the
personal side of my business, that is entirely female. Um,
that's, but that's way more skewed 97%
Janice Porter: Wow. Okay, yeah, okay,
okay, so let's just elaborate on that, just a little bit, because
I think it's a great partnership. So if not not
saying I have divorce attorneys as my audience, but one never
knows there may be somebody out there listening. But what would
you say are the key benefits of partnering with someone like you
to support their clients beyond the legal framework?
Deb Porter: I think that the first benefit is, of course, the
calm mind. Because if, if a client's able to have a
conversation with myself or one of my colleagues and really be
heard, they'll be able to come into the meeting with you with a
clear mind, and instead of presenting all of this having
that emotional dysregulation, they'll be able to to create
that more quickly and maintain it throughout.
Janice Porter: Do you think that is part of your work then going
to be or is it working with their clients, with the with the
actual client, or is it strictly working with the attorney to
help them with the skills they need to be a better divorce
lawyer. Let's say,
Deb Porter: Well, if the attorney is is open to learning
that, yes, 100% then then that mentoring is open and available.
But the actual offer on the landing page right now is
specifically combining our ebook along with the listening
appointments for their clients. Got it? Okay?
Janice Porter: So I something, I ask people a lot, because I
remember talking, or I told you, I taught listening as part of
the cus the telephone, courtesy that I taught, and it was used,
it was mostly around the telephone, right? Because it was
the telephone company that I worked for, so we did a lot of
telephone training, and I had a book and account I didn't find
it again. It's in my shelf somewhere about active
listening. And the very first thing that the guy talks about
is the the acronym for the word or the an anagram for the word
listen. Do. You know, you probably know it the anagram for
the word listen.
Deb Porter: I don't actually silent. I have heard that
actually now that you say that, I'm like, Oh yeah, light bulb,
Janice Porter: though, isn't that? Like,
Deb Porter: yes.
Janice Porter: How did that happen? Like, that's like,
that's just so interesting to me, just that whole concept,
because when you're listening, you need to be silent. And I
don't get it. I like, how did that happen to me? That's just a
quirk and that somebody noticed it, you know? I
Deb Porter: think it's the universe playing with us.
Actually,
Janice Porter: there are no accidents right there. Okay? I
just thought that was kind of fun. So do you have, and this is
putting you on the spot, but you can say no if you don't. But do
you have any a story of somebody that you, that you know really,
that you really helped and taught what they needed, that
sent them on their way a better person. Oh, it was so great,
Deb Porter: because I love that you asked this question because
I had a conversation actually, with a mentee last night. We
happened to connect again, and she said, Oh my gosh, Deb, I was
using the skills that you taught me just today at the end of her
work day she had had. So she's a sales professional, and she
takes inbound calls for a health health company, health health
company selling products. And she ended up on a call with a
very irate client who had been mistreated by one of her
colleagues, and was they were very, very angry, and she said
that she applied absolutely everything I had taught her in
the conversation. And at the end, the person said, can I just
work with you directly? Can I just, can I just have your Can I
have your direct line and just do all my sales through you? And
she said, and debit, and debit only took 10 minutes. It only
took 10 minutes. And I was like, yes, that's that's the power of
listening. This is what this is what it is people. And it's just
so fun and so beautiful. And she was so happy, because, as she
applies it in her work, she understands now she doesn't have
to fix people's problems. She She understands because before,
when we started working she had all of this weight that she was
carrying, and she was like, dragging their problems along
with her. Like, you don't have to do that. Don't do that.
There's a better way. Let me show you how. So anyway, we work
together. She learned a lot of things. She applies it now, and,
yeah,
Janice Porter: it's good. That's amazing. Okay, so that you need
to help me here, because customer service and customer
service issues just really rile me up when they're when I don't
get good customer service, because I used to teach it, so I
right, and it's so different today than it was okay, and
nobody seems to care. Because you can't find you can't talk to
anybody in so many sorry, in so many instances, you can't talk
to anybody. You have to, you know, talk online, chat online
or email, which drives me crazy. I want to talk to someone, so
they're great. When they when you want to buy something,
they'll talk to you. But when you want to fix something, they
really okay. So I've had this ongoing issue with my cable
company, Shaw, and I will say Shaw, which is here locally, but
it was just bought by they just merged with another company, and
the service has gone down the tubes. And when you do finally
get hold of somebody, you want them to care. They may not be
able to fix the problem themselves, but you just want
them to care, not real off the the response that they've got
written on a piece of paper that says, I'm so sorry that you've
had this. I don't get, you know, don't give me that just right,
right? So how do you deal with that? What do you do when you
come up against that? Because I'm ready to kill so I have to,
you know, I have to, first of all say to them, Look, I know
it's not your fault. I know you're reading from here, or
you're doing this because you're and you're being recorded, but I
just want somebody to help me.
Deb Porter: That's where the story of the thrashed potatoes
in my family came from. So I actually had a really bad so my
husband was sick. We're now divorced, but my husband was
sick for very sick for eight years, and I had an experience
where I was trying to resolve a medical issue for him that was
so frustrating. It was incredibly frustrating. And I
was also fixing, trying to fix dinner and care for my kids
while I was caring for the sick man, and at the end of the call,
I thrashed the potatoes. I didn't match them. I thrashed
them. And so now it's a whole joke among our family. Anyway,
yeah, so how do I deal with it? Obviously, much like you, the
frustration grows, right? Because it's before you ever get
to the person. You're already dysregulated because you're
frustrated because you had to push crap. Was it three or was
it? Is it actually a number two issue, like, which, like trying
to understand their system so and then when you finally do get
a person, sometimes they disconnect. I've had that happen
that's incredibly, oh man, don't start on that. That's really,
really, yeah, you know, those, those people that pass the hot
potato, that's what I call it in my trainings like, you know,
like, hot potato, hot potato, hot potato. Somebody take the
time. Doesn't take long. Everybody thinks it's going to
take this long time to deal with this angry person. It doesn't.
It doesn't take a long time. It takes knowing what to do and how
to do it in a kind, compassionate way, to share, to
share some a little bit of empathy and and be honest and
authentic like and you know, managers need to be telling
people it's okay if you don't know the answer, send you know
that it's okay if you don't know the answer. And so this is part
of, you know, again, you've done training for teams. I've that's
part of what I'm doing now, training teams. How do we
deescalate these dragons that, come on, that come on, and it's
because it's an art. It is.
Janice Porter: I mean, I finally, after three or four or
five times of waiting on hold at least an hour and a half. One
time 30 minutes, another time 30 minutes, and I can't stay. I
gotta go. I got things to do, and then I finally decided to
call the department that renegotiated my contract with
me, rather than the customer service department, because they
were real quick. So I did, and they answered, and I went, This
is amazing. I said, very interesting. And the guy said,
but you're in the wrong department. I said, I know, I
know I'm in the wrong department because I can't get through to
the right department. And the guy ended up being quite nice
about it. And he said, I'll transfer you. I said, Nope,
don't transfer me, and not unless you're going to stay on
hold until I get somebody right, because I'm not like. He said,
Listen. He said, If I transfer you to the customer service
department, you'll get through fairly quickly because you've
come from another department. I said, you're kidding. He said,
No, it's just the way it is. So I said, Okay, he transfers me, I
get through in two minutes. Wow. I'm like, I don't believe it.
What am I going to do next time? I'm not going to call customer
service. I'm going to call there and do the same thing again.
Because I can't believe that was so ridiculous. So yeah, but then
I finally got some satisfaction, because this girl did care, and
she did listen, and she, you know, assured me that she would
stay with me till my problem was solved. But the when you get so
frustrated, the first person that gets you gets all of that,
yes, they do. Yeah. So yes,
Deb Porter: yes, they do. And it's the wise person, the one on
the front line that's getting that they have to understand
that it's not theirs to carry and it's theirs to do the best
they can in that moment, and believe that by doing that, they
have helped, and that's what matters
Janice Porter: Well, and that's, yeah, sorry, go ahead. That's
Deb Porter: how you go home at the end of the day and feel
satisfied. That's how you go home at the end of the day, and
you're not bringing all of this junk home with you through the
front door to your kids, yeah, or your dog, or whatever.
Janice Porter: And a good job in what you do. Right? I think
today, though, here's a question for you, last question before I
get to something else, do you notice a difference when you're
training teams today, then maybe a few years ago, because,
because of the digital world, because things have changed so
much, because we can't get through to anybody and all of
that, and because of the generation that we're working
with in often younger Things are different. I feel like they
don't have the same empathy skills, the same listening
skills today,
Deb Porter: yeah, since I've started my business, I've I have
created the core, which is what I teach, and the emotional
intelligence pieces are kind of baked into that and for me, and
what I found is, when you really listen to where someone's
starting from the interaction, that's where it's rich, right?
Starting starting from that, just like I talked about with
this other client, right? Started from where she was,
helped her get to where she needed to go. And just depends
on where they're starting from, what they really need from, from
me, and you see a
Janice Porter: resistance at all with the younger people, or do
you see a tuning out at all because they everything's very
quick today, right? And so they might be listening to what
you're talking about. They're on their phone at the same time.
Deb Porter: Hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fun, because they,
they got permission for that when they were in school, and
so, yeah, they're, they're bringing it into the workplace
now, and that's a whole thing. Yes, indeed. Sorry, teachers out
there, if there's a teacher listening in, I don't know. I
don't know. Just, just
Janice Porter: mandated here where I live, that phones aren't
allowed in the classroom anymore. But there's no
consistency about how it's being regulated. So it's going to be a
disaster. But anyway, it's another story. But yeah, so, so
do you find a difference then?
Deb Porter: Yeah, there. There really is I. I attempt, in all
of my teaching and all of my training to be short and quick
and to make it. You know, it doesn't take a long time to
learn what I teach. It just takes practice and intention. I
really believe that, and because I do that, I really feel like
it's applicable to any any person of any age. Only Did you
know, only 2% of people, at least in the US have have ever
had any active listening training at all. 2% isn't that
astounding. It's not taught in our schools. Only 2% the that
kind of just blows my mind. That statistics probably about eight
years old, now nine years old, so I maybe it's gone up. I would
like to believe that I'm a part of that change, and I'm going to
change that a lot. But yeah, oh,
Janice Porter: wow, yeah, that's that goes back to I'll tell you
when I think you're listening, because it's true. Yeah, that's
amazing. That's very sad, actually. Okay, this is so much
fun. I could talk about this forever, because I think it's
such an important skill and to do properly and and, you know,
even like, I have a little granddaughter who's the light of
my life, and she's just starting school, and all of the sort of
preschool training and the you know, the things that you teach
them when they're toddlers and whatever at home, if we can
teach them to listen and to act accordingly, or to learn
something by listening, as opposed to by seeing as well.
They get those that practice and so on. It's an ongoing thing.
It's a skill that we have to learn. And that's really
interesting that you that there's only 2% did you say 2%
Wow.
Deb Porter: Okay,
Janice Porter: amazing. Okay, how can people get hold of you?
And then I've got one last question for you. How can people
share?
Deb Porter: Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. Of course you can find
me there, and if you want to send me an email, I'd love to
read it, info at hearing at life drama.com,
Janice Porter: and I will put those that that on the show
notes. Okay, two last questions. I lied. First one, you know that
I love curiosity. It's my favorite thing. Two part
question. One, do you believe that curiosity is innate or
learned? And part two, what are you most curious about today?
Deb Porter: I believe curiosity is innate. I believe we're born
with it. I believe a lot of us were taught away from it and
taught not to be that. Yeah, I'll leave that there. And then
the second part of your question one
Janice Porter: more time was, what are you most curious about
these days?
Deb Porter: I just love following. The next question. I
just love following. So like this morning, I was working with
my business partner, Linda, and we were writing blog posts for
LinkedIn, and she had an idea, and it led to another question,
another question, another question. I just love to follow.
That that's what brings me so much joy and allowing myself,
because that's really if you think about it, that's how we
started. That's how we were as kids, and we just allowed
ourselves to follow that. And so that's really what I'm about
working on now in my life, is allowing myself the joy of
reconnecting with that, because that's really the moment,
really, is what? Yes, yes, being in the moment, following that,
allowing that, yeah, that's all really, really rich and good. I
don't think it's any a curiosity, necessarily about any
one thing. It's just about allowing it all to be there.
Janice Porter: Well, in my experience of you, you are very
good listener, and you pay attention to the details, and
you're also a very good connector, and that's very
that's a very special skill, and much appreciated, because I've
met some interesting people through you. So that's really,
really special. One last piece of advice from my audience, or
something that you want to share
Deb Porter: if you want to be remembered, listen,
Janice Porter: okay, love it. Thank you. Deb,
Deb Porter: this is so thank you really good. Janice, thank
Janice Porter: you, and I always say at the end of my podcast to
my audience, first of all, thank you, and second of all, stay
connected and be remembered. Yes, thank.