This is Apologetics Live.

To answer your questions, your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rapaport.

I'm welcome to Apologex Live.

I'm your host, Andrew Rapoport.

I'm joined by Josiah Nichols where tonight we're going to be talking about some, the inconsistencies in Islam.

And I think that this is going to be a topic you're going to see me cover quite a bit over the next year because I believe that Islam is a major issue that needs to be addressed over the, the next few years.

I personally think that people still are thinking that after 2020 that Marxism is, is the greatest threat to America.

I believe Islam is a greater threat.

They're using the Marxists to destroy Christianity in America and then they're going to swoop right in and take over.

So with that, we're going to be covering that for the topic of Islam quite a bit.

We also are doing it because while we had the last two weeks, some Muslims come in and want to argue and debate with us and, and basically challenge us and, and yet, you know, we didn't see, you know, we didn't see them come in, but maybe they will.

So before we get to that though, Josiah, I would like to talk about something in the news and you may remember this because you were a listener back in 2020, but 2020, I made a prediction and it finally came True.

Today in 2020.

I said that soon as these young children who are being transitioned start realizing that they could sue the doctors and get paid lots of money for their botched transitions or their transitions, because once I discovered that a, anyone under 18 can sue a doctor after they turn 18 for surgery that's not necessary, I realized that this is going to happen because these people that even the ones that are happy with their transition will probably start suing because they, they're going to just realize that the entitlement type of people they are, they're going to realize they could get some money and they're going to go for it.

Well, we just had a first case with a young girl.

She was, I believe, 16 years old, went in, she has autism.

She was a little, had some anxiety, depression and they rushed her in to get transitioned.

And so she had both of her breasts removed.

She had the surgeries to do that, had taken the meds and it didn't help her any.

In fact, it made things worse.

And so she now as an adult sued the doctor and I think maybe even the hospital and won a multimillion dollar suit this is just one of 12 cases that are in the court system right now.

And as this one is being heard, you're seeing as of today, some of these medical boards are backing away finally from arguing and pushing transgenderism on children or at least the surgeries.

And it's amazing how quick it happened.

It only took one day for the, the doctors and hospitals and, and whatnot to be like, we need to move away from this.

We need recommend this for, you know, pre adult people.

So it only took six years, well, probably more like five years for that trad.

That prediction to come true.

But we, I, it was predictable.

I mean, this, this shouldn't be a shocker, right, Josiah?

I mean, this is, you are now 100% more accurate a profit than Minnie Hin and the whole movement combined.

Well, look, they, they may have, Look, a broken clock is right twice a day.

I'm sure that one of their many, you know, prophecies, I mean, because they give so many.

One of them have to be true.

I mean it, the one where they, they all in 2020 said Trump was going to be the next president, I guess wasn't.

So.

Yeah.

So, I mean that's, that's at least good news on that front that children will stop being rushed into transition.

You know, I mean this, it's a real issue, I think this, this whole transgenderism.

Oh, here Andrew from down under, down in Australia says trans regret, it's called.

He says, let's see, put this up here.

Hospitals need to treat people as patients.

Well, I think more what they're doing now is treating people as money bags and just looking what they could get out of it.

So I'm going to put this comment up here, Josiah, and I'm going to let you explain this because Jesse Heller hasn't seen you for a while and his comment is, is that Nichols, you've lost a lot of weight, brother.

Good for you.

You, you want to explain because people may not recognize you if they haven't seen you for, since the last time you've been on the show, right?

Well, I, couple years ago, I was, I was 282 pounds and I had three autoimmune diseases.

Gout, diverticulitis, arthritis and psoriasis.

That's, that's four.

So psoriasis I still have, it's in remission, but I went on the keto diet to where I just eat meat, vegetables and drink water and I lost.

I'm now down to 145 pounds.

So I, I lost all of the three autoimmune diseases are, are gone.

I don't have any arthritis in my knees anymore.

I don't have.

I haven't had a gout attack in, in two years.

I haven't had any kind of pain.

It's, it's just by trying to live a natural diet, trying to steward my body in such a way that I honor and glorify God.

I didn't use Ozempic, I didn't try to cheat.

It was just disciplining my body so that I could better glorify God.

So I, I appreciate the, the that and you know, if you wanna, if you want to talk, think about doing the keto diet.

Always talk to your physician beforehand, see what your body's doing.

It might be good for you to, for, for you, for you to talk to them first.

But like we've been saying, you want to always trust what the hospitals say.

Right after I had my 8 inches of my colon removed, the doctors told me eat whatever I wanted to, and I did.

And so I started getting diverticulitis attacks again and went up to £282.

So try to try to go what's with what's natural?

What, what with what works for you.

And talk to your pastor also and consult the Bible.

It'll really help you out in guiding you in, in your dietary needs.

Yeah, we have SG Men 32 says I have Gulf War illness autoimmune disease.

So I identify now.

I think.

I can't be sure from the.

It's hard to see with that little picture.

I don't know if that is Stan the Man, but it looks like him from the little bitty picture that was up there.

So, so yeah, so let's, so let's catch folks up also before we get into talking about Islam.

Where are you at?

You, you have changed since the last time you have been here.

Not only have you lost a lot of weight, you're pastoring a different church in, in a great town.

Because I've, I think I've been there like four times last year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm the pastor over at the KEK Church in Evansville.

We're a small Southern Baptist church.

We're more reformed than, than your average Southern Baptist church, but we, we just.

God's been blessing that church so much, they took a chance on me, I took a chance on them.

And I've just been preaching through the Bible verse by verse starting with John.

And God has used that to open up the hearts of the congregation.

We've grown numerically.

I mean, I Wish financially we were doing better, but, you know, God is blessing us left and right and we're going on campuses sharing the gospel, we're going door to door and telling people about Jesus.

And that's, that's the churches that are growing.

That's churches that are doing well is the ones that actually go out and share the gospel and trust that God will actually do his will and bringing people to him.

Well, the others may be growing, but not usually spiritually.

That's true too.

So you and I talked some time ago about doing this episode based off a paper you had written.

And I will admit I read it several months ago, so it's not as fresh in my mind, but it was an interesting thing that, you know, you picked up on some of the inconsistencies within, within Islam, as I have in my book what Do They Believe?

And I.

It would be a great way to start what we're probably going to cover several times throughout this year on Islam because like I said, I, I really think it's a threat.

Some people are starting to wake up to the threat really, ever since in New York you had this mayor who everyone's, oh, well, he's not really a Muslim because, you know, he's, he's supports homosexuality and all these things.

And so you look at that and realize, but Islam, they don't mind.

I mean, like, they'll have an Omar.

Yes, Representative Omar.

They'll vote for her to be in office.

But if this was a Muslim nation, she would be out of a job.

She'D be out of life.

Yeah.

Well, so this is the thing with one of the inconsistencies right off the bat with Islam is they're willing to use the laws of the nation they're part of to take over that nation.

So let me ask you a question, Josiah.

Do you.

Is Islam a religious system or a political system?

What say you?

I.

It's kind of both and kind of neat.

It's, it's all the ramblings of a, of a caravan robber is essentially what it is.

So he could use religion to gain control and conquer most of the Middle East.

That's what it originally is.

And, and so it's.

But they use it politically.

I mean, they have Sharia law.

That's their political, that's their political system, that's their civil law to where they have, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of just a judge on everyday life.

I mean, it so much so that they take idolatry so seriously that little girls Aren't allowed to have dolls.

Women, if they dishonor the family, they, you say, they say they can beat them till, try not to get, till their skin is green.

Don't try to hit them in the face unless you're, you know, they do something really dishonorable.

Then you can kill them, hang them.

But I don't understand one thing about Islam.

Sometimes I don't understand how the feminists get involved in it with the Quran actually saying that women are no different than talking animals because they don't have souls according to Muhammad.

So yeah, it's, it's a political thing, but they, they use religion the way Hitler used religion and to back up his, his, his political sayings and to back up his totalitarianism.

So it's, and they probably have the same amount of respect for, for Jews as they, as the, as the Nazis did.

Not very much.

So, yeah, it's, it's, it's both.

And I, I would say you can't really have a, you can't really have an Islamic community without having politics brought into it and trying to usurp the, the what?

The country that you are invading.

Yeah, because Islam, one of the things with Islam is they will, they will fit within the laws, but they will try to out populate nations.

Now that could be out populate by birth or out populate by immigration.

Because folks, I want you to think about one thing son of consider with all the immigration, you have so many Muslims that are immigrating to Europe, to America, and yet one thing you don't see is any Muslims migrating to Muslim countries.

Most people that immigrate, even if they're fleeing out of, you know, whether it be that there's something in the, in the country that they're fleeing from war, whatever the tyranny, they often will try to flee to a country that is as closest to them as possible.

Right.

The culture, the language.

And then typically what they'll try to do is they will try to integrate into the society.

But that's not what you see with the, these millions and millions of Muslims that are immigrating all over into Western society.

They're not going to a society that's like them where they have the same religious system, they have the same language of Arabic that they would, they would speak.

They have the same, you know, cultural system, morality, morality system based on Islam.

They don't go there.

And you could go and see the, the videos of these people.

They're not shying away from saying what they're doing.

They're Saying it out loud.

They want to overpopulate these countries until they have power and they get involved in politics.

Now for all the leftists that might get upset and say, well, hey, you know, you Christian nationalists, all right, Christians, there are a number of Christians that are saying, yes, America should be following biblical law because that's better.

There's a bunch of Christians that are saying, yes, we would like all of the, the United States to believe in Christ and follow biblical Christian principles.

Yes.

Now they never complain about Islam nationalists.

I've never seen cnn, you know, abc, CBS or whatever that other one is as the, the one that used to be MS, Ms. Now I think they want to be called.

But you don't see them complaining about Muslims who want to, to have a Muslim nation in America.

And they openly say that.

Right.

Muslims make great allies because they are okay with you butchering your children.

They're okay with you.

It's, it's illegal.

It's.

They look down on the crayon.

But they're okay with you mutilating yourself, decreasing your ability to give birth because that gives them room to take over.

It gives them room to be able to, you know, outbreed everybody else and eventually destroy the weak people that they were using to get rid of Christianity.

Yeah.

So here's Andrew from down under and he's, he's even saying there is an Australian Islamic politician who tries to pass Islam of the world's most feminist religion.

So Islam is not a religion, I think is very, is, is the most feminist religion.

And he's saying that they, they don't want to integrate, they want to dominate.

And that's the point that I'm making and why I think that Islam is so dangerous because they've, they've, they're letting the socialists and Marxists basically take all the, the heat and all the hits while they just slip in underneath it.

And they're, you see in New York City, Mandavi, who is, you know, espousing communism, but really he's pushing Islam.

And, and the Muslims, they are saying it.

It's all of a sudden I, I have friends of mine in New York who, who take pictures and send it to me of Muslims in the streets now for their call to prayer.

So this is what, how, how this is going to happen, right?

They just, they get a large number in an area, they take over an area, and then you're going to start, as you start hearing in New York, New York has, I believe, I think this was like 20 some years ago where there I think that they outlawed church bells, but now you're having the Islamic prayer call to prayer.

So that's fine.

You just can't have church bells.

Right?

That's consistency, isn't it, Josiah?

That's about, you know, if, if Democrats didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards at all.

And, and you know, with something you said with, you know, it's not so much ripping on the Democrats, you know, you made.

There may be some folks in the audience who go, well I, you know, I voted Democrat all my life, right?

My parents were Democrats.

I've been a, you know, understand something as so many have said.

Elon Musk said it, Bill Maher said it, you know, others the Democrat Party left them.

The Democrat Party that your parents voted for doesn't exist anymore.

These, these, the Democrats today are the Democrats, you know, are, are everything the Democrats from a generation ago would have been fighting and now they're, they're importing voters.

Like I was thinking about this today, Josiah, this isn't on Islam.

But you know, there's three things I've noticed over the last 10 years that really fire Democrats up.

And I mean enough to get them out on the streets and burning things down.

If you expose fraud in the government, wasted money, which I would think most taxpayers would be happy to expose fraud, get rid of it because it's less taxes that they have to pay.

But Democrats seem to get really upset when you expose fraud.

They also get really upset when you want to deport people who are here illegally.

And they say really intelligent things.

Like I heard the one reporter saying, you know what, what ICE is doing is just wrong.

They're deporting people who haven't broken any laws, they haven't committed any crimes, they're just here illegally.

Right?

And I went, wait, what, do you know what the word illegal means?

And the third thing that seems to get them really upset is asking people to have ID when they vote.

I mean they've lost their minds recently on this Save America bill, which I mean they're saying, hey, illegals can't vote.

Then why would you be against a bill that asks illegals to vote?

Yeah.

So let's talk about Islam a bit.

Now you mentioned something.

This may be a good back and forth discussion because I may, I think I might disagree with you, but I'm going to see with what you said.

Do, do you believe that Muhammad, his idea initially was to, to get control and move Islam, you know, all across the, the nations for the purpose of, of control.

Well, he, he's, he has like the same back, same kind of story as Joseph Smith.

So I think he was doing it primarily for sex benefits and it seemed like the money helped too.

But Joseph Smith and Muhammad both claimed that they saw Gabriel in.

Or an angel in a cave or in a, an angel.

Yep.

Yeah, Muhammad thought it was Gabriel F. At first.

No, no, they both, both of them.

Right.

Didn't believe it was an angel at first, but Muhammad more so.

Yeah, I was going to say he thought he saw a demon and that he was demon possessed and his followers actually tried to convince him that he was not.

So who.

Well, it was, he didn't have followers really at that time.

Do you, do you remember who it was that convinced him that he saw an, A, an angel and it would have been Gabriel?

See, I don't, I don't remember that exact.

Okay, it was a woman.

It was his wife.

So he comes back explaining this story to his wife.

And, and for folks that don't know his wife for, for just to get the record, his wife before she married Muhammad was his owner because yes, in Africa they had slavery long before the African slave trade in Britain that came over to America.

Yeah, because that was the, you know, 600s, long before there was an America.

Yeah, well, there was slavery going on a long time.

But yeah, you're right on that.

But he, he, he got, he got this message from, from Allah and he claimed it was a message of peace to try to unite the area, unite the Arabs together.

So he went to, he went to Medina, I believe first, and he started trying to gather Christians and Jews and the official story was just trying to say that we all worship one God and God of Abraham.

And then the message wasn't going around so well because you know, Christians and Jews wouldn't agree that he, he didn't really have a good understanding of Jesus or anything at.

He, he.

Well he heard what, he just, he parroted just what he heard from whoever said something about anything.

And so he was kind of flood.

He retreated from Medina and then he ended up in Mecca and then Allah told, told Muhammad that he needed to, you know, start saying, hey, you know, we need to convert people by the sword.

Convert people by, you know, being tough and yet and you know, convert, just converting them through force.

And so he gathered this group of followers, went back to Medina, gave him a sort of a, called a mercy call to surrender and he wiped out the entire, the entire city.

Excuse me.

Yeah, so I, I think when you look, I took a course on Islamic history And when you look at the, I, I really don't think that in the early years that Muhammad was looking to build anything, right?

So he, so Muhammad was a slave and he had, he ended up getting his freedom marrying the woman who is, she had a business of trading and he was, he started to travel, he now had some leisure time and he was able to go and in engage with other people and just sit and have discussions.

So he started to, to kind of be more of a philosopher started to see that.

And I, I would say he didn't really have so much of a Christian influence but more of a Jewish influence.

And so, but when he, when he did start up following after, you know, Allah and Allah at the time, and I was really surprised to have hear this in, in this Islamic history class, they even did acknowledge that Allah was a minor moon God in, in the Arabic world at the time.

They had many gods, many, you know, is polytheistic.

And so what you had was someone who started to gather a following and he, you know, if you look at the early years of Islam and folks, if you want some of the history in my book, what do they believe?

I give some of that history.

I, I have the, the history of, of just a brief and what you see in the early years, I, I think that Muhammad was actually someone we, we would, we wouldn't admire him as his Christian values because he wasn't a Christian, but he, he had, you know, admirable values.

He, he, he was willing to stand up and recognize there was only one God.

And, and in light of where they had all the polytheistic gods stand up and be different, he had at that time he was, had a very strong view of, you know, that it's one man and one woman again, something in his society, in his culture that was not the norm.

And so what you had was someone who is willing to, to, to stand out.

Now as he started getting a following, they, a lot of what they did since he was a merchant and he would travel, he knew how dangerous it was on the roads and his followers started to basically be protectors of merchants and, and they were very good protectors primarily because they believed in an afterlife.

They were willing to die to protect a merchant's goods rather, you know, to spare their life because their honor for their religious beliefs for their God was more important.

And, and as you said, you know, there was that shift, you know, after Medina where they, they now had, you know, Muhammad was rejected as a prophet.

He thought he was a, a prophet of, of Judaism.

And early on he was.

He would face Jerusalem for prayer.

And then that changed.

Now they.

They face that obelisk there.

And so.

But what I also changed was from.

From being them Muslims, from being protectors to being pirates.

You know, you probably remember, Josiah, because I know you follow politics.

Remember when Barack Obama said that Muslims were essential in founding this country?

Yeah, yeah.

He.

He just didn't say how they were because they were pirates early on in America, and we went to France to get help against them and built relations that ended up helping our country.

I don't think that's what Barack Obama meant.

Well, you know, he was trying to.

He was just trying to make a point with his followers.

That's how that works.

Yeah, so.

So what you saw early on was, I think he was someone not looking to dominate the world, but as he got a large following, they switched from a.

Which is true.

They were a peaceful religion when, when, you know, one of the worst things I think that George W. Bush did was refer to Islam as a religion of peace.

He did that because he didn't want to make it.

What happened on 9 11.

A religious thing.

And.

And yet what you end up seeing is someone who, by doing that, got people to lower their guard and, and say, oh, their religion of peace.

Well, if, if you read the Quran chronologically, you would see that early on it was more of a peaceful type of religion.

But later on, that changed.

Later on they became a warring.

And.

And if you read the later suras, what you think of what we might say, a chapter, they would call it a surah, but the later ones are, you know, are more.

They kill the infidels.

Okay, so now I, I see someone putting some.

So see some comments.

Humble clay.

And let me pick up on this one.

He says the 72 virgins are actually transgender men.

This is actually something a lot of people don't realize that there are, you know, the, the talk of 70 or 72 virgins that the men would have when they die as a reward for being a good Muslim.

A lot of people will talk about that, and yet that's not in the Quran.

Okay, so not all Muslims believe that.

So you do want to be careful when, when talking to a Muslim because they.

There's a.

That's why, when I wrote the book, what do they believe?

I did not address the hadiths because I wanted something that all Muslims could agree to.

So just, Just keep a note of that.

Now someone is posting a lot of suras so maybe we could read them and, and interact with them.

Josiah.

So and this is affordable for forbiddable faith.

569.

And the first surah is, this is from the Quran 41, verse 43.

And it says, O Prophet, nothing is said to you by the deniers except what is already said to the messenger before you.

Surely your Lord is the Lord of forgiveness and painful punishment.

Now let's look at the next one that they have for us.

This is Surah 39, 32 says, who then does more wrong than those who lie about Allah and reject the truth after it has reached them?

Is hell not fitting?

Is hell not a fitting home for the disbelievers?

So at least they believe in hell.

They do actually.

They have a, they have a more descriptive view of hell than the Bible.

And then they also put up here.

And the Quran is not the word of an outcast devil.

Quran Surah 8125.

So now there's no context given to those.

They're just, they just put those up.

There was one more, I almost missed it.

And it's.

Surah 41, 37 says, among his signs are the day and the night, the sun and the moon.

Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon, but prostrate to Allah who created them all, if you truly worship him alone.

And so those, I, I don't know any context of why formidable faith put those up there.

I'm just saying if, if you're talking about personal context, I don't know.

But I've, I've read those, those service because I read the Quran twice while writing this paper, try to come up with an argument disproving Islam.

And a lot of the Quran is written like that.

If you read the Quran, a lot of the, it's hard to read because a lot of the verses, you know, just kind of go from one thing right to another and you can't really see what the logical flow is of that.

So you have to kind of pick and choose how it, how it all works together.

That's why the, that's why the, the Muslims have adopted by and large the interpretation of later, later revelation, Trump's earlier revelation, so that they can kind of make sense of, of their, of their.

Religion, of the inconsistencies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And actually that's what my paper is based off of, is the inconsistencies.

Surah 18, I'm going to try to bring it up for you, for you here.

Surah 18, chapter or verse one, says, Praise be to Allah who revealed the book to his servant and not allowed therein any Crookedness.

And then Surah 4, 8, 82 says will they not then meditate on the Quran and if it were from any other than Allah they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

And so this discrepancy kind of translates into contradiction there.

And so what I, when I've debated Muslims online in the past, I've, I said well you know, the Bible has many scientific contradictions and it contradicts science all the time.

So which isn't true because they don't study the Bible to actually know that it doesn't contradict science.

But I stuck to the historical inconsistencies about, specifically about Christianity that as somebody in the comments mentioned before, the Bible predates the Quran by 600 years, give or take.

So and these are also mentioned in your book as well.

They claimed that Mary was the sister of, of Aaron and Moses, but she was also a virgin birth get to Jesus, that would make Mary 1400 years old.

Well that's not a lot.

That's, that's doable.

Yeah, yeah.

If you, if you close one eye and it's going on, it's going at the other.

And another one is Jesus wasn't crucified.

Aside from the Bible, Josephus testified to the crucifixion of Jesus.

The Talmud testified at the crucifixion of Jesus.

And then there's also the, the Degr that Muhammad believed that the Trinity was according to Christians, the Father, the Mother and the Son.

Yes.

And so he gets, he gets that wrong.

But for 600 years and really three, it was kind of formalized in 150 A.D. it was, it was made part of, part of you know, clear church doctrine.

During the, during the, the Aryan controversy and then at the council Constantinople, it really detailed how the detailed the Trinity that the Trinity is the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.

There's not three, three gods but one God.

There is three persons but not three gods.

And if, and we can date this back to several manuscripts talking about this, several church fathers interpreting the scripture, we have it in the Bible itself.

The great commission.

Matthew 18.

No, no, Matthew 28:8, 28:18.

All authority has been given to me on heaven and earth.

And he says go therefore make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit teaching observe all that I have commanded you.

And though I'm with you always to the end of the age.

There.

So there's, there's so many discrepancies that the Quran fails historically that according to Muhammad we shouldn't trust the Quran because we can't, we can't say it's from a law because there's too many discrepancies that we can prove historically or wrong that predate the crime.

Yeah.

So we have, we got some comments here.

That'd be good.

One comment that comes up, we have here, he said that question is easily answered.

Guys.

It's been covered dozens oftimes on YouTube.

If you guys really want to learn and have doubts, why don't you co host a Muslim expert?

This seems ingenuine.

Well, let me be really clear.

Apologeticslive.com.

you see it scrolling on the bottom there?

Anybody can come in here and challenge it.

We have had Muslims in the channel for the last two weeks.

We have been telling them to come on in, but they don't.

I've debated Joshua Evans, I've debated different Muslim, Muslim Imams.

The interesting thing is I remember in, at Montclair State University debating a Muslim imam and he actually said to the audience that I understand Islam better than most Muslims.

Hmm.

So I, I try to be careful with it now.

Formidable faith said to me, he said, you claimed moon God, right?

No, I didn't.

I claimed that the professor who taught the class, the, the Muslim professor who taught the Muslim class of the Muslim history said that Allah was a minor moon God.

So that wasn't from me.

Now you know, you, you brought up some things.

The, the inconsistency.

The, the author of the Quran clearly did not understand who the, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

You, you brought that up because in, in the, the Quran it asks the.

Question.

Of, you know, Allah says to Mary, you know, or to Jesus, I should say, speaking of Mary, did I, did I tell people to worship you as God in the same context of referring to three gods?

And so there you have the case and, and formal faith is asking us to read the very verse.

So let's, I'll read that.

Surah 5116 it says, and when Allah saith, O Jesus, son of Mary death, thou say unto mankind, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.

He saith, be glorified.

It.

It was not mine to utter that which had I had no right if I used to say it, then thou kneweth it, thou knoweth what is in my mind, and I know what is in thou.

Thy mind.

Lo Thou only thou art the knower of things hidden.

So right there the idea that Mary is, was called God, that people call Mary God, even the Catholics don't do that.

And they venerate her and, and give her attributes that only God would have.

But they would not say she's God because no, no Christian believed Mary was God.

Now I do know some Muslims who would point out oh there was, but there was this one group and I've, I remember researching the group.

I couldn't find anything in any documents other than Muslim documents of this group that supposedly believed.

Now I'm not, that's not saying that just because it's only from Muslim documents that it's false.

It, But I will say it's conspicuous if the only sources are the sources that need it to support things.

Now you brought up some other things, some other inconsistencies that are interesting.

You brought up the, the one of Mary being quite old.

I, I think in that case, you know, I would, I'd have to look at some of the, you know, the context because you know, Jesus did have, or sorry, Jesus, Moses did have a sister Miriam which is a name Mary.

So it could just be a confusion.

I'd have to see if they're actually saying that it's the same Mary.

But the one that you, you mentioned is very interesting is that he didn't die on the cross.

Yes, they believe that they hung Judas in his place.

Well not all.

Some, some say it's Judas.

But what the Quran does say a look alike which to any Muslim.

I want you to think about this since there's some Muslims that are in the chat.

I want you to think about this.

If Allah, the, the, the, the God who in the Quran is referred to as the great deceiver and the word can mean planner but it's the planner of schemes.

That's why the word it means deceiver or planner in, in deceiving people scheme.

When we look at that, what is the greatest scheming deceit that Allah ever did?

Fooling his own followers to believing that it was Jesus on the cross when it wasn't.

So Allah's not deceiving the world.

He deceives his own followers as well.

And that's the God you want to put your trust in.

You want to put your eternal faith and trust into a, a God that would deceive you.

Something to think about.

I would, I wouldn't trust, trust that.

Yeah.

Now go ahead.

I was going to say that the Surah that and the verses is about Jesus being crucified.

Actually not being crucified is Surah chapter 4, verse 156 to 158.

It says we killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.

But they neither killed nor crucified him.

It was only made to appear.

So.

Even those who argues for this crucifixion are in doubt.

They have no knowledge whatsoever, only making assumptions.

They certainly did not kill him.

Rather, Allah raised him up to himself.

And Allah is almighty, all wise.

Yeah, so he, he deceived his own followers.

Now, portable faith doesn't think he, he or she thinks that this, the verse that they had me read, is proof that it's not the Trinity.

They said it says, it says quote, as two gods, unquote.

Then you claimed it said Trinity.

You stretched it.

No, let me read that part again.

Let's, let's do a counting.

Josiah.

Allah said, lo, I send you down.

Or sorry, oh, I'm reading the wrong verse.

Verse 116.

And, and when Allah said, O Jesus, that's one person, son of Mary, did thou say unto mankind, take me and your mother as two gods besides who?

Allah.

That's three.

It's real simple math.

Jesus, Mary, Allah, besides two gods besides the third.

That's where you get a trinity.

I mean, throughout the Quran, it'll say that you shouldn't, that we shouldn't worship three gods.

Josiah, do you worship three gods?

Do you believe there are three gods?

No, there's the, the, the Bible says, hero, Israel, the Lord your God.

The Lord is one.

Yeah, I, I'll tell you a funny story.

We were in Union Square.

I had, I had a, A, this, this Muslim family.

The guy was a professor, I forget what university.

He was a PhD professor at a university.

And he was, the whole family was Muslim.

And he's telling me that he likes to talk to the Christians at the university and, and that he likes to engage with them and he has a really good understanding of Christianity.

But then he kept telling me how I believe in three gods and that the Quran condemns that.

And I said, but we don't.

Now we had like 25 evangelists out there evangelizing.

So I just grabbed one after another, you know, pulling them over.

Define the Trinity.

Define the Trinity.

And one after another, three persons, one God.

One God, three persons, right?

They're all saying one God after like seven people.

He goes, okay, okay, I get it, I get it.

Right?

But then he went back to saying that we believe in three gods.

You see, the author of the Quran did not know that Christians believe in one God.

The author of the Quran says that Jesus was saying, did he, he's asking Jesus, did I say that you and your mother are gods?

But that's not what any Christian would believe.

And no Christian has believed that, you know, prior to the 600 years that Muhammad was around, I didn't, they never believed in three gods.

I mean the closest one that came to that was Arius and his heresy was debunked because he, he said that he was.

But even he didn't believe in three gods.

He believed that Jesus was just a created being that God used to create the world as witnesses believe.

Now Jesse Heller is asking a question that we could address because this again gets to some inconsistencies.

He asks, please address the Islamic dilemma regarding the corruption of the Bible.

Even though they, what we have today predates Islam.

Okay, so what you have in Islam is this idea that you have.

The Bible was written by God through men, first through Moses and then men corrupted that, then through David and men corrupted that and then through Jesus.

Even though Jesus didn't write in any of the, the New Testament, but then through Jesus and men corrupted it and then lastly through Muhammad.

But that cannot have been corrupted.

Now the interesting thing with that, just historically, excuse me, is the fact that the third imam, his name is Uthman, he had, there was a battle and everyone had the Quran memorized and so they recited it audibly.

Well, there was a battle and many of the warriors died.

And Uthman realized we, we better capture this and write it down before we lose the, the words of Allah, you know, which makes sense.

But here's the thing.

If you believe that God wrote through Moses and it got corrupted and he wrote through David and it got corrupted and it wrote through Jesus and it got corrupted and he wrote through Muhammad and then Uthman has the, the copies, has it written down.

But he notices that these, as these warriors start writing it down, there's different versions and he has to put an edict out to burn the abhorrent texts.

How in the world could you believe logically that he burnt the right ones because God couldn't keep his word the first three times, what would make you think he could keep it the fourth time?

Just logically.

And, and to the point that Jesse was mentioning, if you read the Quran, it says over and over in the early, when you look at it chronologically, when you look at it, the early texts, the early suras say that you can trust the book, you could trust the Bible, that's what the book is referring to.

And the people of the book and they say that it was corrupted.

But we have copies of the Bible that has not changed, that are older than the, the religion of Islam.

So what we have by going back to copies of the Bible from the 300s, 300 years before Muhammad when they say it was corrupted, we can compare those to the ones that we have today and we don't see this corruption that occurred.

Yeah.

In fact, if just to point back to your book, what do we believe?

I think you actually did a chapter on textual criticism and how accurate the Bible is compared to other ancient texts, which the Quran doesn't even come close to being an ancient text.

But you, you do mention how accurate the Bible is according to its variance.

And could you tell me again that number?

So.

Well, basically the variances, if you, if you look at the variances and, and using conservative numbers.

Right.

So when we do textual criticism, what we're looking for is to see there's two things you look at whether you can get back to the original.

Okay.

That's what we call viability.

So if I can get back to it, if I have a spelling mistake, I could figure that out.

Right.

And I can get back to that.

And then, then that's, so that's not concerning.

A meaningful change could be concerning if the meaning of the text changes.

But if I, if, if I can get back, if it's meaning a meaningful change, but I could get back to it.

So if I was to say that, you know, Josiah here is a six foot two, you know, 150 pound guy, well, that's a meaningful change.

But we could look at you and, well, not on camera, but if, if you look at him in person, you'd realize he's not 6:2 and, and definitely he's lost a lot of weight.

But I don't know if you're that, if you're down that low yet.

No, I'm at 145.

Oh, are you?

So, okay, wow, you've lost even more since the last I've seen you then.

Right, but that's a thing where the meaning changes, but because of the viability, we can get back to the, to what the original was.

Right.

So we could, we could recognize that now where we have to be concerned is where is when we cannot get back to the original and the meaning changes.

So let me give an example of that.

We have textual variances that deal some that say that Jesus was a carpenter, others that say Jesus was the son of a carpenter.

Now both could be true, but the meaning does change.

And in that particular passage we don't know which one's right.

We could look at other passages and know that Jesus was a carpenter.

We, we could look at More passages and know that he was the son of a carpenter.

Both are true.

By looking at the, the breadth of all of the scripture.

So did someone add the word son of a carpenter or drop the word son of a carpenter?

We don't know, but we know both are true.

So yes, that particular verse, the meaning changes and we can't get back to the original.

But how many changes are we talking about?

Well, to use the most conservative numbers, we use the, the idea that there's 1% of all these variances that are viable and meaningful.

In other words, we can't get back to the original and that they have a meaningful change.

There are out of the138,000 words in the Greek New Testament, there are about 6, 500 words that have variant readings.

1% of that.

Now I'm saying 1%.

But as we've gotten more manuscripts, that actual number, as, as I was talking, I took a class with Dan Wallace.

He said the more accurate number today would be 1/5 of 1%.

But let's go with 1% because that's the number they've been using since, you know, the 6070s.

That 65 words that we can't get back to the original and the meaning changes.

65 words out of 138,000.

I will put that number up against CNN any day of the week.

Okay.

And I'll put it up against the Quran because one of the things Muslims will say is that the Quran in Arabic has no variances.

But there's a guy, I, I, I forget his name.

John street maybe, but he was a guy that was in England.

He's now in the States, in Philly.

But he, he would, he would sit in England in, in Spring Speaker's Corner where I used to preach when I was there.

And he would hold the different Qurans from different regions and he highlighted all of their different variants that they deny occurs.

But there are variants in the, in the Quran in Arabic.

Yeah, that's, that's pretty well well known.

David Wood talked about that in a couple of his videos as well.

But I want to get back to the, to the text.

This is part of my paper too.

A lot of people, a lot, a lot of the places in the Quran said the later places in the Quran says that the Gospels and the Torah was corrupted to disprove, they were actually changed to disprove that Muhammad was not in the or to, to try to get, say that Muhammad was, He said that he was in the original text and because they were pointing to him but he said that the crane got corrupted so his name was taken out of there.

How many manuscripts do we have again?

Of the, of the Quran, of the Bible?

Oh, the Bible, the New Testament of.

Well, New Testament in Greek or in, or you want to count translations?

If you have the numbers, you can do both.

So if we look at just the Greek today, the number is close to about 9,000 Greek manuscripts.

Now, manuscript may only be a portion.

Like we have one of the oldest ones.

P52 is the size of a credit card.

Okay.

So when we say a manuscript, it may not be a complete Bible.

When you add in trans.

Early Translations, when you add in the quotations of early church fathers, you're up to about 70,000 to 90,000.

Somewhere in that range, 70,000 and 70,000 documents.

Does the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John ever mentioned Muhammad's name as a upcoming prophet after Jesus?

No.

And so let me just put this up because Jesse's asking a question along this line.

He's saying, isn't the number 57,000 copies?

That was the number many, many, many years ago.

One of the neat, really neat things with going on textual criticism is we're finding manuscripts in a lot of places, like in books that we already have with the technology we have today.

We're, we're, we're have, we're finding so many that they're having, it's, they're having a hard time catal.

Cataloging them all because they now have technology to look at the.

You know, people would have, because parchment was expensive, you'd write on it.

People would scrape off the ink of the Bible and then write something else on it.

And we can now look at the text that was underneath the text, text and, and find manuscripts there.

So continue.

So how many copies do we have of the Old Testament that we have.

Know of that one?

I'm not sure of offhand.

It was in your book.

But I was, I think it was a larger number though they are later manuscripts.

Correct.

But we do have early.

We do have the Dead Sea Scrolls.

We do have, we do have other stuff we found recently as well.

And, and the Dead Sea Scrolls are very important because for the people who say, as Muslims would say, that the Bible was corrupted and changed over history, we have a, for example in the Dead Sea Scrolls, a copy of the Book of isaiah that was 1,000 years earlier than the earliest copy of Isaiah that we had, and there were no changes in it.

The way that they copied was so painstaking and detailed that there's, there's fewer textual variants in the Old Testament than the New.

And a simple reason for that is the New Testament had such an important message, you had people trying to copy it quickly to, to spread the.

The Bible.

Yeah, that's that.

That's exactly right.

And do, does.

Do any copies of the Old Testament that we have?

That's a large number.

I think it's in the, I think it's in the several thousands.

Do we find Muhammad's name in any of those?

Well, there is the book of that.

If you look in.

In Second Hereticals, they, they, they make it up there.

And yeah, it's second hereticals 5:18, where it says we make this up as we go along.

For folks who don't know the Bible, there is no second hereticals.

Oh yeah, it was fun trying to get people to open up to the book of Hezekiah the other day.

You might as well say a book of second opinions.

But here's.

Here's some.

Here's some.

I like that one.

That one's better.

Here's some verses in the Quran that talk about Muhammad basically condemning any kind of scripture, twisting or distorting.

It says 279.

So woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands and say, this is from Allah seeking a fleeting gain.

So woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they have earned.

Yeah, then there's.

And when Jesus son of Mary said, oh children of Israel, I am the messenger of Allah, testing to you what is before me of the Torah and giving the good news of a mess of a messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad.

And then he came to him with clear arguments and that this is clear enchantment.

So he was claiming that the Torah was speaking of a messenger.

And again, we do not find that name.

You do not find Muhammad in that name in any of the copies.

And a lot of these copies predate the Quran being quote, unquote written.

Yeah.

And so what you end up seeing is Jesus's name is mentioned very often, quite often through the Quran and Jesus does great miracles that Muhammad doesn't do.

I do want to put this up here just as an apology for those who are just tuning in.

And, and this is.

I think we'll probably have a lot more people listening on the podcast this time.

But Apologetic Draws says, hey, some of us have been waiting for an hour on the linked video and it never started playing.

I just happened to find it playing here on a different link.

Let me if, if you guys are watching, maybe you could just share the link where you're watching it.

Because we had technical issues.

It wouldn't start the link and.

Or the streams.

I refreshed it and, and then it started, but it killed my mic.

So a lot of technical issues tonight.

So Apologetic Draws, I'm very sorry about that.

And, and sister Tara there, Josiah, has a better one than your second opinions.

She.

She puts up.

No, no, she says no, it's first blasphemy.

She wins that as she get.

She gets the award.

Yeah.

So politics draws says YouTube won't let us share links in chat.

No, what I'm saying is share it on social media so that others know that we are actually live because, you know, people are having some issues.

So.

Let'S see, where was it that I said?

Where I saw.

Okay.

Affordable, Affordable Faith, who didn't come in here, by the way?

The two Muslims have quieted down in the chat, but they're.

They never came in.

So for the record, or actually there were three, I think, that were in chat.

Anybody can come in here for a discussion.

So if you disagree with us, you are welcome to go to apologeticslive.com you scroll down to the duck icon, you click on it, and you can enter into the studio and join us.

Okay.

It's not very hard to do, but Affordable Faith says, read those last three and I'll leave you alone.

Striving for eternity.

Appreciate the engagement.

So I guess they.

They left and won't hear us.

Read these, but I'll read them.

But I do appreciate the fact that they're.

Appreciate the engagement.

It is something I think, Josiah, to be said about the way we engage people we disagree with here on Apologetics Live.

We don't do name calling.

We don't yell, we don't scream and get all upset because for Josiah and I, our heart goes out to.

To Muslims because they're deceived.

They're.

They're deceived by the.

The real great deceiver.

And the great deceiver is the father of lies, Satan himself, who, who convinced Muhammad that he.

He's following after a God, Allah.

And so our heart is broken for you.

We want you to.

To know the truth.

And so it's no, it's out of no malice or ill will or, or glee that we would say that what you believe is wrong.

It's out of a.

A desire to see you come to know the truth.

So let me read the verses he wants me to read.

Surah 5:17.

He or she because I don't know.

They don't say affordable faith doesn't.

Doesn't say whether male or female.

So Surah 5:17 says they indeed have disbelieved who say lo, Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary say, who then can do ought against Allah if he had willed to destroy Messiah son of Mary and his mother and everyone on earth.

Allah is the sovereign of heaven and of the earth and all that is between them.

He createth what he will and Allah is able to do all things.

So I'm reading that again.

I'm not sure what he's trying to point out other than the fact that this is supporting the case that there's confusion over Jesus and Mary being God.

He wants me to read 72.

So 72 says, and folks, as I'm reading this, are you recognizing the fact that this is not an easy to read book?

It really isn't.

I know that Muslims will say it is the most beautiful book ever.

And they'll say when it's.

When it's sung in Arabic.

Okay, fine.

But when you read is it is a hard read.

So 72 says they surely disbelieve who say lo, Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary and Messiah himself said O children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.

Lo who ascribeth partners unto Allah for him Allah hath forbid Paradise.

His abode is in the fire.

For for the evildoers are there will be no helpers.

Well this is supporting the case of the inconsistencies that we talk about because we don't believe that God has a partner, another God.

That's not what we would believe.

We believe there's one God and when it says oh is to that Israel to worship Allah, it's quite interesting because Israel didn't believe in the God of Allah, right?

Yeah.

They they believed in a God that a Messiah.

That was God.

Emmanuel God with us.

The name.

Oh, they want me to revert 3773 too.

So it says then surely believe who surely or sorry they surely disbelieve who say lo, Allah is the the third of three when there is no Allah save the one Allah.

If they detest not from so saying, a painful doom will fall upon them.

Those who disbelieve.

This is the point.

Formal faith is actually making our point.

The Quran teaches that we believe in three gods and that's not what we believe.

The author of the Quran does not understand.

And it's clear.

It says Allah is the third of three.

So it is clearly speaking of a belief system that believes in three gods and yet that's not what Christianity believes.

So the author of the Quran did not understand Christianity.

Yeah, the, the point of my paper and the point of this discussion, the reason why it's important that the Quran has discrepancies or inconsistencies is that that's the test on whether or not to judge whether the Quran is from Allah or not.

And the Bible claims to be inerrant and it's, it means it's without error and it's original manuscripts.

The Bible claims to be infallible.

It claims that everything that it speaks on is genuinely true down to 100%.

The Quran claims the same thing.

And the thing is you have to test the Quran with history and we can test the Bible with history and we see that it lines up with history very well.

We have evidence for Pontius Pilate, we have evidence for Herod, we have evidence for Jesus, the disciples, the, and he's testified about outside of the Bible, even by Josephus and the Talmud.

You know, if, if Jesus didn't really exist that would have been a great plot time for the enemies of Jesus.

And the enemies of Christians say Jesus never really existed but instead they said that he was just a false teacher.

They, there's all kind we can, you know we found, we found the Pharaoh for the Exodus, we found evidence for the Exodus.

We found mentions of David in the city of David.

We've not mentioned, we found the house, the mentioned a house of David.

Outside of that we've mentioned we've, we've know that Nebuchadnezzar and all these different other historicals really existed.

And when we go to the places where the Bible says that these places the, the kingdoms and the places were, we find them so we can actually, I mean not, not just archaeologically but through written documents we actually find that the Bible is way more historically accurate than the Quran.

So if I'm going to go based off of, you know, historical discrepancies whether or not to believe Bible, I'm going to believe the Bible 100%, not the Quran.

That's if you want to actually take the test at its face value.

Well, part of Islam is, I mean the word, the, the word Islam means submit.

Yeah, Muslim means to submit.

A one who submits.

So you have to understand that within Islam there is a blind faith to believe what the Quran says and what the religion teaches.

Even when it doesn't, it's not logical.

Now they will say that God is a logical being, but as we already Said if you believe that God wrote through men, Moses, it got corrupted David, got corrupted Jesus, and it got corrupted Muhammad.

And you say that can't be corrupted.

When we know in Islamic history that Uthman had to decree to burn the important texts of the Quran, which when they first wrote it down, that is the proof that there were multiple versions.

You don't have that with the Bible.

There's no, there's no one saying, oh, let's write the Bible down, up, burn the abhorrent text because there were different versions of it.

You don't have that.

Yes, you have textual variances when people are copying it, but you don't have people saying, up, nope, we got multiple versions of this, as you do with the Quran.

So logically, you can't trust that.

So excuse me.

You know, this is one of the things that I, I see with Islam, Josiah, that many Muslims I've run into where they could look at it and see logically what you're saying and recognize the inconsistencies even.

But they, they can't give up the faith because they have to submit their, their.

They believe their eternal soul is resting on this.

Even when there's, there's a surah that Matzlik loves to bring up and it, it talks about the seed of the man is formed in the small of the back.

Well, we now know where the seed of the man is formed biologically, and it's not the seed of the back.

But I've actually had Muslims try to argue that.

No, no, no.

Science has proven that.

Yes, it, it ends up in your testicle, but actually starts in, in the back.

And, and, and the semen works its way over there.

And I'm really.

Show me that.

Like, show me that biology book.

Yeah, there's a lot of inconsistencies.

I could have gone one side with scientific inconsistencies.

It's a lot, it's a lot easier and more fun.

But then they, but then that.

What they do is they say, oh, look, the Bible is scientific inconsistencies.

The dead can't be raised.

Well, naturally they can't.

But that's not science.

That's history.

Yeah, you have to go back to history.

The Bible says a lot of scientific facts, you know, but the blood, the life is in the blood.

The earth is a sphere and hangs over nothing.

It says that.

It says to quarantine those who are deathly ill and will infect the rest of the population if even the kosher diet, you know, prescribed in the Bible, it's the health One of the healthiest diets you can have.

And it will prevent.

Not saying that you have to be on it, but it will.

It will prevent child miscarriages.

You know, if you're drinking a lot of alcohol while having a baby, you don't want to do that.

If you eat horse meat cooked, undercooked or not cooked a certain way, you're going to die.

There's all kinds of.

If you don't, if you don't eat shellfish, right.

If you don't.

If you don't actually prepare it how it's supposed to, like they weren't able to do back then.

It is an abomination because it'll poison you.

So, yeah, the.

I remember when I was at Montclair State University with this imam, and it really was kind of interesting because you had the Muslims.

So one side was Muslims, one side was Christians, and the Muslims, they.

All the girls were at a table by themselves.

And so you had the men spread out throughout.

And the whole night, I mean, we had probably two or three hours of Q and A.

These poor ladies.

Every time I kept saying to the moderator, who is a Muslim, let the ladies ask a question.

And he ignored them.

So, so finally, I mean, they were, they were dying.

They were like trying to.

You could see they kept having all of them have a dozen girls having their hands up.

And so finally I just turned to.

Moderator said, I'm not going to let you ask another question of me until you let the ladies ask a question.

Okay, Just.

You get the idea what Josiah was saying with, you know, their view of women, right?

This is in America, this is in New Jersey.

And they didn't want the women to speak.

So finally the moderator says, okay, the, the women can.

The, the Muslim women can have one question.

They all get into a huddle and like, they're going to come up with their best question.

And they were like, how could the, you know, how could the.

You say that the Quran is not written from God.

When the Quran talks about scientific things that we didn't know about for centuries later, things like the, you know, the.

The cycle of water becoming clouds and coming down as rain.

And I just looked and said, they got that from an older book called the Bible, the Book of Job, the old.

The probably the oldest book of the Bible, which was as.

What I said to him, I said, which was 2,000 years before Muhammad.

That's where they got it from.

And they just were like, oh, you know, that's when the, the imam.

The imam actually took a copy of The New Testament from me.

When he realized that it was only.

It was smaller than, shorter than the Quran, he's like, I, I'm gonna read this.

And that's why they ended up the next year having me debate Joshua Evans, because they, they really needed to make up for, I think, the fact that they, you know, it just, I mean, that imam actually explained when the Muslims were asking a question, he explained to them because he realized he didn't want them asking a question.

And he said, he literally said to him, he understands Islam very well.

Don't ask that question.

I said, that's okay.

I don't mind answering because you and I both know they're practicing Takiya right now.

And maybe all the Christians in the audience didn't know what I was saying, but the Imam knew what I was saying and so did the person asking the question because he didn't want, he was like, forget the question, forget the question.

No, I'm going to answer it.

And Takiya is the idea that they can lie to defend the faith.

Now their God is a great deceiver who deceives even his followers.

He.

It encourages lying to protect the faith.

Who is it that is described in the Bible as the great deceiver and the father of lies?

Can you help me out, Josiah?

I can't.

I can't.

Is that, that's.

That's where, that's where Muhammad was or.

No, the.

Allah is found.

Yeah, yeah.

John, John, chapter eight.

Jesus said that your father is, is the devil and he is the father of lies.

Yeah.

I mean, that's like when you justify lying, that that is of God.

That's not of God, that's of Satan.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

Now they will come back and says, oh, the Old Testament says that God ordains lies.

God asked the host of angels back in, back in Second Kings, who am I going to get to deceive Ahab for?

To, to prophesy him good fortune when I've promised him destruction?

And so, and, and so an angel comes up and says, I'll do it.

Probably fallen angel, maybe Satan, I don't know.

But then they say, well, see, God ordained that to happen.

He asked somebody to lie.

So therefore God is God.

God can lie.

Yeah, that's, that's called a straw man.

You make up, you make up an argument and you push it down, say, oh, you're got, you're not telling your truth about God because God, God told people to lie.

Yeah.

And, and, and yet they're in, in warfare.

We do see that deceiving is, is something different when it comes to warfare.

Our media doesn't recognize that when we have conservative presidents because they say, oh, you have to tell us all your war plans.

So someone, some reporter asked Trump, you know, are you gonna, are you gonna attack Iran?

He's like, if I was, I wouldn't tell you.

Right.

Right.

So let me.

We got some comments from earlier.

Formable Faith had said this earlier and I did want to address this.

When we, When I talked about them going from protectors to pirates, they said when they were being hunted, they fought back.

Shocker.

Except the problem is that they were the aggressors now.

They were chased out because they, you know, and that's the whole thing.

They, they left.

They had, they, he.

They fled and they were chased out.

But after that they come into a land and they're now the aggressors.

Okay?

So you can't, you, you have to recognize what the, the, the Quran.

And if you want, go to karma.org and you could search for the chronological order of the Quran.

Matt Slick has put together the order of the Quran chronologically.

The way the Quran is organized is by size.

Okay?

So your, your earlier chapters or suras are going to be much bigger and it goes to smaller ones.

Unlike our Bible that is put together, at least the Christian Bible, you have Old and New Testament, but it's done by genre.

So you have your historical books and it.

And those are done chronologically.

You'll have your prophets.

Those are done chronologically.

You have your wisdom literature done chronologically.

New Testament, you have your historical books.

Now it's not really chronological because it's four Gospels dealing with the same time.

But the four Gospels are before Acts and John is the fourth one because he deals with more of the last part of Christ's life.

But then you have the majority, then you have the letters.

So that starts with all the letters of Paul.

Right.

So that's how that is.

Is added in.

So let's see.

So I see apologetic Jaws has joined us.

Let me bring him in.

Or politic draws.

We don't see on camera, but I think we can hear you.

No, I just bought a camera.

I could probably try to hook it up, but no, I just wanted to try this out.

I'm new to, you know, calling into a show or anything, but I was wondering if you guys, you know, notice the difference of, of, you know, taking apologetics to Muslims as opposed to anybody else.

Like if I'm talking to an atheist, you know, I'm Going to get in a. I'll probably go full presuppositional on them.

And that's something that works with them.

I don't think it works as well with Muslims because they're in a kind of a political religion that you have to tear down before you can convince them to hear something else like the gospel.

You have to show them the inconsistencies in there.

Most of them don't even know their own Koran.

You know, they don't know it.

Well, once you start breaking it down to them.

Sorry, my dog is.

So you're the apologetic and he's the jaws, huh?

Yeah, exactly.

Little tiny jaws.

Yeah.

My wife's out of town so I get to be bugged constantly.

So yeah, that's the thing.

I see a lot of people from the Muslim community come to Christ only after their worldview is wrecked.

Yeah.

You know it.

And I don't mean disrespectfully.

No, no, but that is still.

But that's still presuppositional.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess.

Yeah.

Right.

You're not.

Well, I'll let Josiah answer first.

Yeah.

The whole point of apologetics is to poke holes in the worldview system, assuming that they know what you're already going to tell them is true, that there is God, he has spoken.

That they're, that they're suppressing the truth and unrighteousness and you poke holes in their stated beliefs.

And that when you do that, you leave a opening to insert the gospel and biblical truth into there.

We have an answer that yours religious system doesn't have an answer to.

Right.

You have discrepancies where we can actually make sense of stuff that at the surface we don't understand.

You have a very big gap in your logical inconsistencies.

And here's where the Bible comes in.

Here's where the gospel comes in.

So it's still precept.

It's just, you know, some, sometimes you just have to listen to them because you just said a lot of them don't know the Quran.

So you ask them what Islam means.

You ask them what the, what, what the Quran says about this and that.

And, and then you say, that's interesting.

Have you thought about this?

Have you thought what the Bible says here?

Yeah, and, and there's different types of Muslims.

You know, you get your Muslims who put a lot of, put a lot of faith in their hadith and some who don't use the hadith at all.

They're Quran only Muslims.

And so, you know, you can make arguments from the Hadith that really blow Islam away.

But that won't work on your Quran, only Muslims.

So you have to know where you're poking your holes.

Well, yeah, because what you find is this is no different than Christians or Jewish people or anyone else.

You have those who follow the religion and those who don't.

This is why when you see the people who are looking to dominate a culture like we were talking about at the beginning of the show, those Muslims are not radical Muslims that George W. Bush referred to.

He wanted to make a difference between Islam being a religion of peace and these radical Muslims.

And you hear people talk about radical Muslims.

Those are faithful Muslims.

Those are people who are living out what the Quran says.

Right?

Any Muslim community that grows to a size where they start to become a majority, it shows the same traits.

They take over.

And I mean, look at Europe, look at England right now.

I mean, and, and so when you're, when the people, the, the locals say the British are shamed into not saying anything, you know, you don't want to hurt the Muslims feelings.

So, you know, then the Muslims get away with, you know, their, you know, all the crimes against the women, you know, I don't know what words YouTube allows, but I think you know what I'm talking about.

You know, they have tens of thousands of women who have been assaulted, molested, and when they speak out, they go to jail, you know, for insulting the, the Muslims.

And it's just crazy.

Everything's backwards.

An interesting thing, if you study Islam, they're.

They're looking for a.

Another imam, a 13th imam.

It's very fascinating to study that, because if you study that and you study the scriptures and you, if you happen to be premillennial, you will see that in Revelation when it talks of the, the, you know, Antichrist and the false prophet, it fits perfectly in line with their 13th emom.

Just.

Yeah, interesting thing to look at.

I think it'll all pan out in the end.

No, no, what you want to be is you want to be pro.

Millennial.

If there's a millennium, you want to be all for it.

Yeah.

Because with God, it doesn't pan out.

Right.

So if, if God has a millennium, you're all for it.

There you go.

Hey.

I do always enjoy your comments in the chat.

You're, you're very active in the chat.

It's good.

Sorry that we had technical problems.

It took you a while to get in, but I hope I was looking.

Forward to this one.

The, a few of us, two or three, sometimes it was like five people were sitting there waiting for about an hour.

Oh, because earlier in the day or earlier before the show, it said the show is starting and it had a timer on it, you know, so joined in and then it just.

We thought you were raptured.

So.

Yeah, no, what.

What happened was, is that we.

We tried to start the show and it was just hung.

And so I refreshed the browser because it was telling me that the show ended.

And then.

So I refreshed a browser and started and started again and it worked, but then it killed my mic.

And so I'm sitting here talking and we're not hearing anything.

And then it's like, okay.

And then I bring Josiah and I'm talking to him, thinking he could hear me, and he's just like, I don't know if Andrew's there.

Well, I'll go back and watch the first hour later.

But I was looking forward to it because of the topic.

And I've been seeing a lot of stuff going on in the Muslim community lately where there's.

I don't know if you watch some of the guys who are Muslim apologists like David Wood and those guys, they've had a problem with one Muslim doxing their family members and their.

Their wives and threatening them and calling them and all kinds of stuff like that.

And so they're in kind of a. I don't know if you call it a war, but they're in a conflict with them.

And.

And so it's.

It's been really interesting.

There's been a lot of more openness to Christianity recently that I don't understand other than Move of God and an opportunity for churches to start sharing the gospel more.

And it, it should be a calling card to that amongst Jews, amongst college students, anybody.

Just do what you can to get the gospel out.

Like I, I make.

I carry gospel tracks with me all the time.

I made this one up for our church called Diagnosis Good News, Bad News.

And then I just outlay the law and the gospel on the back, highlight some of the words on there.

And it has church information so that you can actually go to our church and we can ministry you if you have any more questions.

Huh.

Good idea.

Yeah.

I don't have any tracks to hand out, but I. I wouldn't mind getting some.

So, yeah, what I would say to do two places you can get tracks, and always having tracks is a good thing.

We.

We have three different places we get tracks from Living Waters dot com.

That's a ministry that Ray Comfort works for, but if you want to get some, some good tracks in like, what I like to do is I like to get a lot of tracks, but I want my contact information on there.

So I actually get them custom made and I'll either go to One Million Tracks.com or track planet.com.com One Million Tracks.com and track planet.com both of them will customize tracks.

So you could write your own track like Josiah and they'll make it for you.

Or take some of the ones that they have.

They have, some of the ones that I've, that we've created are on their site and you could buy them and put your, your contact information on there.

So if you buy a large enough amount, you can customize them and they have, they have a wide variety of different tracks, some that are more funny, some that are going to get into more thinking, you know, optical illusions, things like that.

So a lot of different kinds of tracks that, that you could find there.

So it's always good to have tracks on you.

Yeah, I'll check that out.

I'd like to get some Islamic targeting tracks.

You know, has that specifically.

I think Million Dollar Track or Million tracks do too.

So it's just because when I first started studying apologetics and that, that's what I got my degree in, I, I never thought of Islam as even, you know, a topic or a group of people to, to, you know, to, to try to convince.

I, I always had atheists and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses in mind because that's what I have more around me.

But there's been more and more Muslims lately, so it's become an interest.

Yeah.

And that's why I wanted to.

And I said on the beginning of the show I want to start addressing Islam more on the show because we're going to see a lot more of it and it's going to be something that we as Christians have to be prepared to deal with.

You know, back, you know, six years ago, we were, we were hitting the issues of, you know, of Marxism pretty hard on the show because it was what was attacking Christianity.

But now I think the biggest threat we really have to address is, is going to be Islam.

And here's another.

Melissa is giving us another place to get tracks.

She said Bazugan, Bazougan has, it's the Bazougan track club.

And so they give away tracks for folks.

And so she said for, for free you get 60 every two months.

So that gives you one track a day to hand out.

So you could.

So Bazougen is for those in the audio is B E Z E U G en track club.

So if you go search for that.

I didn't know he's still doing it, but if he is, that's, that's good.

So.

But apologetic draws.

Thanks for coming in.

Hey, thank you.

I'll go ahead and exit now.

Yep, appreciate it.

So, Josiah, as we, as we wrap up, just want to give it to you any, Any last things you think we.

We.

We missed or.

Or should address before we close out.

Well, the big, big thing about witnessing to Muslims is apologetics is just.

Is just the way to get the gospel in the door.

So when you're witnessing to Muslims, you're not.

A lot of people have really bad ideas about them because, you know, they.

That it is in their holy book to kill you if you disagree with Islam.

But, you know, everybody is evil.

Everybody has fallen short of God, of God's standard.

I. I mentioned my track.

You know, you mentioned Living Waters.

You know, whether you're a Catholic, a Muslim, a Jew, a Communist, you know, you can look at the Ten Commandments and see we've all fallen short.

You know, how many lies have we told in our life?

I'm like, I've told dozens, probably thousands of lies.

You know, have you ever.

Have you ever used God's name in vain?

You know, I never said oh my.

And then use God's name as a curse word.

What I did was I said that I was a Christian when I wasn't.

And that's using God's name in vain as well.

But that's still blasphemy, and God will not hold him guiltless.

He uses his name in vain.

If, how many.

You know, just.

Just think of, of all the good things that God has given you, and we've just dragged his name through the mud.

You know, when I was little, I was.

I was a thief.

You know, thou shalt not steal.

Well, I was a thief because I went to a.

Into a little store.

They had some pencils.

I stole a pencil.

I chewed on the eraser.

My mom caught me, took, dragged me to the police.

And the policeman said, your mom will not save you because the law says petty thieves go to jail.

And so, you know, at, at 5 years old, mom put the fear of the law into me to stop stealing, but I was still a lying, blasphemous thief.

And when I was older, I found that girls actually looked better than Noah's Ark.

So I. Jesus said, you heard, it was said, you shall not commit adultery.

But I say to you, ever who looks at a woman who lusts after her in her heart, has our lust after her, has already committed adultery with her in her, in your heart.

And so just on the four, four of the ten Commandments, that I'm a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterate heart, I've broken God's laws.

You know, actually that's not even the worst of it.

The worst of it is, is that, you know, God is good and he deserves all of our worship from our whole being.

Jesus said.

Jesus and the other parts of scripture say mind, soul and strength.

And we have not done that 100% every second of our lives.

We've also not loved our neighbor as ourself.

If we, if we did.

Well, we.

Wouldn'T have any money because we're not limitless in our, in our finances and whatnot.

But I don't think that we are capable of doing that other than the grace of God.

So we're called condemned.

Bible says for all of sin and fallen short of the glory of God, wages of sin is death.

And that we all deserve to go to a place called hell.

Jesus said it is better to tear out your right eye or cut off your right hand and throw it away from you than to have your whole body be thrown into hell where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

And God said in Isaiah 66:24, they, they shall look upon the bodies of those who rebelled against me, and their worms shall not die and their fire shall not be quenched.

Jesus didn't make it up just out of the blue.

So when addressing Islam, we need to go to the law.

We need to go show that we've all fallen short of God's, God's glory, that we all deserve to go to hell.

And then if they're open, then you give them the good news.

Gospel, you have to give bad news before you give the good news.

And the good news is that you know, God is rich in mercy.

He sent Jesus Christ, who is truly God, truly man.

Jesus is God, but he is not the Father.

He is not the Holy Spirit.

It's one God, three persons.

Jesus happens to be the Son, the second Person of the Trinity.

And he lived a sinless life.

He opened the eyes of the blind.

He.

He made the, the deaf hear.

He made the mute be able to speak.

He rose people from the dead, doing all God's miracles.

They laid out before him, followed all of God's law.

And he was rejected by his people.

He was betrayed to the Romans for his claiming to be God.

And they were saying that he committed, he was committing insurrection, that he was rebelling against Caesar's authority.

But it was according to the predetermined plan of God that he sent Jesus to die on that cross as our sinless substitute to bear up, take on the full wrath of God so that he could pass over our, pass over us and not have any wrath toward his children who repent and trust in Jesus.

So that's, that's what we need to get to when we're listening to Muslims.

If we have the ability to, you know, use some of these apologetical tools like pointing out their discrepancies and using, saying, you know, if you believe in the Quran, you're not going to believe in the Quran because it contradicts itself.

But, you know, that's a tool.

But it's just a tool because, because you need to get into working, going to their conscience, using the law to work on their conscience and then telling them the good news about Jesus and.

You know, to apologize draws question that he asked.

You know, what you just did works for the Muslim, works for the atheist.

I mean, we don't have to have a different, we don't have a different gospel message and we don't have to have a different approach.

They both have a sin problem and we could address it the same way, going to the law and then providing the gospel.

So Josiah, thanks for coming on.

Maybe, you know, we're going to continue this, this topic may, you know, maybe next week, I don't know, I'll see what's, what's.

I don't have a, a topic yet for next week, but I do want to engage with Muslims.

So if there's Muslims out there and you'd like to come onto the show, we'd be happy to have you.

Happy to have the discussion.

It would be good.

And so want to encourage you guys to, to share this with others.

Share it with others who, who even might disagree, who might want to come in and have the discussion as long as they could do it without being, well, a jerk, you know, it'd be nice.

Although we've had those too that, you know, we've had the jerks too.

But, but yeah, no, if, if it's something where you want to join, just go to Apologex live, 8 o' clock Eastern Time and on Thursday nights and scroll, you scroll down, click on the duck icon, join us.

We're here for the discussion.

We'll probably have, you know, I don't know if we may drill into a different area of Islam or something, so, so we could help you out understanding it better.

So maybe, maybe we could look to do that.

But we wanted to start with just some of the broad inconsistencies that Josiah had worked on and studied.

And so maybe, maybe we could start to look at what the Quran actually is and what it teaches and, and some of their beliefs.

So that's something that we'll look forward to.

So remember to strive to make today for an eternal day for the glory of God, and we'll see you next time.

Have a great night.