PART 2 TO EDIT Master Andrew Sewell

[00:00:00] hi there and a very warm welcome to season 5 episode 29 of PeopleSoup. It's Ross McIntosh here.

[00:00:07] Thank you. That was super useful. You were saying the word doubt, like I'd forgotten that head space I was in when I was talking to you. It was really interesting. I'm not saying I've overcome this doubt like entirely, but yeah, you can tell by my demeanor that I'm in a different place.

[00:00:21] That's for sure.

[00:00:22] Absolutely, that's a good word. Demeanor. It's like your, posture and your There's a lightness.

[00:00:27] That's right. That's a really good word. That's where I want to help other people get to that lightness. Everyone feels so heavy and like, Oh my God, it's like a nightmare. All these huge global problems as well as the day to day stresses. It's like, you can do what you're doing with more of a feeling of lightness than you currently are experiencing.

[00:00:46] and PeeSupers that little teaser was from the very end of my chat with Andrew Sewell. We'd finished the formal interview and he was reflecting on my observation of his creativeness coupled with his doubt when I was coaching him about eight years ago. For me, hearing him talk about the shift in his demeanor and his sense of lightness was such a beautiful moment, particularly as he's now seeking to share that with others.

[00:01:09] and there's also a top tip in there for any fellow podcasters who are listening. Always hit record as soon as possible and leave it running, even when you've finished the formal interview. So in this second part of my chat with Andrew, we focus on his brilliant book, The Overthinker's Guide to Life.

[00:01:25] you'll hear how the seeds were planted, and also find out how many self development books Andrew has actually read.

[00:01:32] He wanted his book to be different and I do believe he's achieved his mission.

[00:01:36] It's super useful and in fact we start the episode with my review. You'll also hear about Andrew's approach to leadership coaching, how he sought feedback on his draft book when he was feeling less hampered by his Comparisonitis. You'll also hear his cracking takeaway, called the State of Mind Elevator. [00:02:00] PeopleSoup is an award winning podcast where we share evidence based behavioural science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun to help you glow to work a bit more often.

[00:02:16] Let's just scoot over to the news desk. I'm not sure if you'll have heard, but I'll be running an Act in the Workplace Trainer Trainer program in April and May next year. It's over four sessions and in partnership with Joe Oliver at Contextual Consulting.

[00:02:30] You'll find all the links in the show notes and early bird rates are still available.

[00:02:34] I'm really excited to have this opportunity to share the protocol I developed alongside Dr. Paul Flexman at City, University of London and also my experience of delivering it to hundreds of workplace participants across all sectors.

[00:02:47] Reviews are in for our last episode, which is part one of my chat with Andrew. And remember, you don't have to post your reviews on the socials, you can also send them to me on WhatsApp. Like this PSuper did. .. They said, love this episode so much, I definitely identify with overthinking. Fabulous insights.

[00:03:05] And in the margins of a meeting last week, someone said to me, I loved your chat with Andrew Sewell. And they particularly resonated with his exploratory moves to escape his copywriting job. Thanks to everyone who listened, shared and rated my chat with Andrew. Your support is what makes the PeopleSoup community so special.

[00:03:23] So please do keep listening and subscribing, sharing and letting me know what you think. If you make some noise about the podcast and our guests, we'll reach more people with stuff that could be useful.

[00:03:33] And PSupers, here's one more piece of exciting news. We're doing pretty well at making some noise and reaching more people. On ListenNotes. com, the best podcast search engine,

[00:03:45] we're ranked as one of the top 2. 5 percent most popular shows out of 3 million podcasts globally. So not too shabby. Thanks again for all your support. Let's see if we can keep making that noise and get even higher in the ranking. Enough [00:04:00] excitement. For now, get a brew on and have a listen to part two Sewell.

[00:04:10] Okay. so Andrew, I'd like to dive into your book, The Overthinker's Guide to Life. And today is the 8th of September, and I believe it's published next week. Is that right?

[00:04:25] Yeah. Yeah. It was my birthday two days ago. And the debt that the idea was to finish this by my birthday, which I've pretty much done, so I've been proofreading it. For the last couple of days and next week, the digital version will be on sale next week on my website. So yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:41] Blimey, so by the time this episode goes live, so it will definitely be out there.

[00:04:46] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, definitely.

[00:04:48] Brilliant. So I'd like to start if I may, with my review of the book because I've been fortunate enough to see an advanced copy

[00:04:56] and peace supers as usual, Andrew hasn't heard this yet. So here we go. My review of. The Overthinker's Guide to Life. Andrew has written a self help book that is truly helpful.

[00:05:10] It's a 28 day guide to help you explore and relate to your overthinking in a different way. As your guide, Andrew takes you through incremental and fun steps to practice and play with. And P Supers, I've practiced and played. with these steps and exercises, and I found them to be super useful. Andrew, this is the book you were meant to write.

[00:05:36] You've created an accessible, beautifully written guide to a core part of the human condition. You've woven together great sources from neuroscience, psychology, business, and wider reading and research with your highly relatable writing style. whilst being open about the chronic distress you experienced in your advertising role.

[00:05:58] Bravo, and [00:06:00] thank you for putting this out there in the world.

[00:06:02] Oh, thank you. That's really lovely. I appreciate it. Thanks for us.

[00:06:06] thanks for writing this book. Sincerely, I would expect nothing less, to be honest, but it's beautifully presented in terms of graphics and font and spacing. But the depth of research and the sources you've brought together and how you've made it, it's like speaking to you.

[00:06:24] It's like a conversation with you. I absolutely love it.

[00:06:28] Yeah, thanks, man. That's, yeah, that's what I was trying to do. So great.

[00:06:34] Well, you've bloody nailed it, man.

[00:06:37] I'm a bit speechless. I think, as we were sort of referring to earlier, this is me on a page. So it's like, literally, I talk about sort of the, Your overthinking self being in overthinking mode and I talk about the opposite of that What you're trying to get to is being your true self your authentic self.

[00:06:56] So I create these two sort of characters Or you know things in your mind so it was absolutely key that I was authentic in writing this book or it would have been like It wouldn't have served its purpose I think what I didn't mean to do any of this like it wasn't deliberate It was a lot of it was intuitive and a lot of it was trusting my intuition Especially in the first two months.

[00:07:21] And then it became, it's like, right, it's, it's a really sort of cliched analogy, but writing a book is like running a marathon and I've, I've, I've happened to have trained well for this marathon. So there was a quite a lot of it.

[00:07:32] Writing book - poss intro

[00:07:32] There was an enjoyable experience, but there was still moments where I hit the wall and I had to, you know, grind through it and do the work, but All I wanted to do was to. Be true to myself while having fun. I wanted it to be a fun writing experience because if I knew it was a fun writing experience, it would be a fun reading experience. So I imagined myself seven years ago, I used to get the train to work. And you know, it was like a, I don't know, half an hour, [00:08:00] 45 minute commute.

[00:08:01] And so I was thinking, what would I have liked to have read on that commute? So dividing it into sort of bite sized daily chunks. Was one of the reasons for that. I was like, Oh, you could do, you could read that in 20 minutes and like get something quite good from it. So it was, I was almost thinking of myself seven years ago as the ideal reader.

[00:08:20] Obviously you don't need to be on a train. You could do this at home, but it's for anyone who's feeling wired and tired or, you know, stressing out or overthinking busy mind. I think that will, it will help.

[00:08:30] Hmm. I agree. And I think, my goodness, I don't know about you, but the people I speak to in organizations, whether I'm working with groups or individuals, everyone is feeling that There's kind of too much to do, too little time. I've got a life outside of work where I don't want to be overthinking about my life in work.

[00:08:52] So I think it's a book for our times. I think it's a leadership book for our times, but I also think it, I think it's for anyone in the workplace who might be experiencing this.

[00:09:01] Yeah. I mean, obviously I'm a leadership coach now, so I've coached a lot of people in group and individual settings. They will experience these issues, as you say, there's not, yeah, it's a common problem to say the least.

[00:09:14] Hmm. just thinking about Kind of the pandemic here is Andrew and the people I've worked with over that obviously most of them were virtual although it's moved to more face to face recently over the last year or so but everyone is just feeling that relentlessness of the workplace and perhaps that disconnection overthinking.

[00:09:33] I think I would guess that the majority of people have some level of overthinking and quite a lot would say it's something that hinders them significantly in their working lives.

[00:09:46] Yeah, that's why I chose the word overthinking. That, like, it could have been any number of words that I chose to sort of headline this book, but overthinking seemed to be most in line with what I'd experienced as a sort of quite a heady [00:10:00] person who has a very thought intensive job, or used to have, with what most people I was coaching was experiencing.

[00:10:08] I think the word relentless is... It's absolutely key. It feels like you've got a never ending to do list and there's no end in sight and that's just, you know, obviously a product of the way the economy is set up and the way organizations work, but it seems to be getting faster and faster you need to learn some advanced strategies to be able to cope with it I would say or remove yourself entirely a lot of it for me is to is to Get into your body get out of your head and into your body and just that basic grounding and presence practice But there's also tons of other stuff you can do.

[00:10:42] hmm. So let's go back to the, the seeds that was planted. You've talked about in January you were thinking of writing this book and you were gonna use a kind of couch to five K sort of model structure. Tell us more about the seed that was planted.

[00:10:57] I think the seed was planted go back many years ago so I've sort of I always had the instinct that at some point I would write a book in my life. I think I tried to write some kind of personal development book, well I know I did, when I was about 30. But I made it like a pastiche. So I did like a stand up comedian pretending to be a self help expert, writing a self help book.

[00:11:20] And that kind of... Sort of work for about 10 pages and then didn't work because I was kind of embarrassed about My own interest in reading self help books to be honest It was like a secret thing for many years because I don't know everybody around me didn't read that kind of stuff Anyway, so eventually I developed the owns, you know authenticity myself my ability to put myself out there in the world and Yeah Christmas time It just, I didn't, I just, just occurred to me, I thought, I wonder if I could write a hundred page book in a hundred days that helps people to do with my coaching.

[00:11:56] And I thought I could probably do that if I tried. So I gave myself a [00:12:00] very specific thing. And then obviously it's sort of, that was good as in it got me an okay first draft that didn't really work structurally, but it got me a lot of words on pages. And then after that, it was just a process of what is this really?

[00:12:18] So then it became more like a 170 page book written in about nine months and much better, I would say.

[00:12:24] Hmm. And tell us, tell us a bit more how it's organized. Cause as I went through it, I did it in less than 28 days because this scheduled interview was approaching, but I really felt it was kind of like a, like I said, in my review, an incremental and supportive and gentle guide. So how did you, how do you arrive at that structure?

[00:12:46] I've read at least 1000 of these personal development books

[00:12:46] I think because it felt the most manageable for people to understand and apply. yeah, this is interesting actually. Why did I arrive at that structure? I've read at least a thousand of these personal development books, so I absolutely know how this stuff works Virtually all of them I've read. And then I've never done any action based on the book I've just read. Right? So you kind of, that was almost a joke. How can I write a self out book that actually encourages people to actually take some action after they've read it? so, in a way, I've written this book to be read twice, like you read it, it's a really easy read.

[00:13:21] So you can probably read the full thing in about four hours, two hours, depends how fast the reader you're. So it's almost like read it like you normally read a personal development book, like just for fun. And then go back and read it more deliberately. So that's where the sort of daily practices come in.

[00:13:37] And it's like almost choose which of the daily practices most resonate with you. So you could do an incrementally step by step, or you could go, I'd really like this, like it's divided into six sections broadly. So there's like headspace stuff, which is around, you know, dealing with your thoughts.

[00:13:52] So there's some ACT principles in there and CBT stuff, and then there's your body space. So that's more like. presence practices [00:14:00] and noticing behaviors and things from something called focusing, which is kind of a therapeutic technique. And then there's heart space, which is more about compassion and connection and getting in touch with your heart's desire.

[00:14:13] And then there's a deeper section on your like inner overthinker. So that's more of the psychological principles and the stuff on neuroscience and various psychological models and gives you a bit more depth. It's an invitation to explore those. theories more deeply but it gives you enough that it's useful as well as a section and then there's a section called authentic self which is about like helping you reflect on where you show up like as you want to show up and where you sort of still might hide your light under a bushel or might be doing things that aren't really serving you so that's the most sort of challenging section, if you take it seriously, some of those reflective questions are quite deep and deliberately challenging. And then there's something called home run, which has helped to design, to put all that stuff together. And it's like encouraging you to take action and do something creative or something that you didn't even something that the strap line is create something you didn't think was possible. So the way I've written this book in January, I didn't think it was possible to write the book that I've written now.

[00:15:10] So I I'm sort of, I thought I could write a book. I didn't know. how this was going to turn out. So it's that it encourages you to take that first step on what your deeper dream or ambition might be.

[00:15:22] That's a kind of summary.

[00:15:24] lovely and for me it really works and I love it that I can't quite remember which section it's in but it's one towards the end where you've got the act matrix as part of bringing it all

[00:15:35] Yeah. Yeah. I might have nicked that title from you. I've called it the Life Lens, which is a better title than the Actimatrix. It's more down to earth.

[00:15:43] Yeah, well no, you know, you know what the act world like everybody shares. So yeah, we're using that more and more, me and me and Paul, like the life lens, it's something we can look through and I think that's really powerful.

[00:15:54] I've used it in my leadership coaching work. And it's very often a really good [00:16:00] way to turn abstract concepts into practical action because people get it immediately. And, um, yeah, it's one of the things that people keep coming back to. So I would say that's, it's, it's one of the most useful things I've, I mean, I'm not an ACT expert, but I've read a decent level.

[00:16:16] It's one of the most useful things I would say.

[00:16:18] yeah, absolutely agree. A side note that's just my, my geekiness. How did you arrive at like the fonts and the colors and the spacing? Is that just your natural experience from being a copywriter for years?

[00:16:34] That's such, that's a good question. like I said, I had no idea that that book was going to look like that in January. I knew I would write some words because I'm a, you know, I've had more than 10, 000 hours of writing practice. I wrote a draft that was decent. This was maybe in May or something. And I thought, can I be bothered to find a designer to design this book, or should I just use Canva? And do it myself because I've done, I do quite a bit on Canva, like anywhere. So yes, my family is artistic. My dad's used to have a glass, uh, making stained glass lamps was his business. So I have a kind of artistic confidence, genuinely.

[00:17:16] I think because I've worked with. Designers and art directors for 15 years, almost by osmosis, I've learned the principles of design. And with the help of something like Canva, which sort of makes it easy, I thought, oh, this is a good way for me to just do my version of this book rather than anybody else's.

[00:17:34] So other people might think, oh, this is a bit random. Why is it like, but I think, I think the design adds a lot to it. I think it adds a lot, makes it more than a. Like the average book you'd read on kindle. I think the design experience is intrinsic to it.

[00:17:49] Hmm, I absolutely agree. I think it expresses your creativity, but it also makes it stand out. It's not. So many words to a page. It's, it gives you, it [00:18:00] creates that space for you to think as well, I think.

[00:18:04] so yeah I mean, so a key advertising principle is lots of white space. But yeah, thinking space is white space So absolutely and also the last thing I wanted to do is make people overthink a book about overthinking So it was like, okay Give bite sized chugs and then practical action.

[00:18:21] So, so the book goes live next week, but have you had people reviewing it for you? Oh no, I've reviewed it as a, in preparation for this interview, but have other people been reviewing and giving feedback and stuff? How's that been?

[00:18:36] Yeah, yeah, so I do a weekly email called Think Less Thursday, which is like every Thursday I publish something. So I asked a bunch of people who subscribe to that email to be early reviewers of the book. And yeah, that was genuinely really helpful. I got some brilliant suggestions for edits. everyone said it was really good.

[00:18:57] They really enjoyed it. People who were coaches said they would recommend it to their coaching clients. People generally sort of reiterated what you said, like that it was really fun and engaging and practical, like it was a really practical thing. Like there's another book on overthinking called Soundtracks by John Acuff, which is probably my favorite book on overthinking. And somebody reviewed it said, Oh, this is like a practical version of soundtracks. And that was like a really big compliment. I think we have similar writing styles. It's very conversational. It's very like someone in a room talking to you about this. And I think that's where the similarity comes in. His book's more in depth research.

[00:19:37] Mine's more practical, I would say. Mine's definitely more of a guide than a book. It's not a workbook exactly, but it's definitely a guide. It's like a guide through your overthinking mind. That's what I would think, see it as.

[00:19:50] Comparisonitis

[00:19:50] Yeah, I agree. And getting that feedback, I'm just curious because you've mentioned that you, uh, perhaps previously or still [00:20:00] have touches of people pleasing. How did you respond to the feedback? What was that like?

[00:20:05] I think that was a key, key difference to how I would have responded to stuff in the past. So when I was a copywriter, again, it was hard work a lot of the time because I was being a perfectionist. And I was also comparing myself to the other writers in the team. Some of them had been to like Cambridge university.

[00:20:23] I had been to Leeds metropolitan university. So there was all that like comparisonitis, this person is definitely better than me. And, um, it took me a long time to get over that. But when I wrote this book. Because it was so true to me, the feedback was awesome. And I took, I took on board what resonated with me, but I also didn't feel any pressure to like please everybody or make all the changes people wanted me to make.

[00:20:50] I just thought, I know what this is and I'll stand by my decision. And if it works, it works. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but it's definitely aligned with my sort of next stage in life of, you know, doing something meaningful, doing something true to me, but also. Helps and serves the other people who resonate with it.

[00:21:10] Hmm. It's such a joy to hear you speak and it feels like there's a sense of liberation from you as well. I love the way you're talking about, um, expressing yourself from that intuitive place and really connected with what you want to represent in the world.

[00:21:27] Yeah, absolutely. I think that, I mean, I think that ties in with the fact that I've done meditation for quite a lot of years now, so that sort of, it's more than mindfulness, that sort of grounding meditation has helped me get more in touch with that sort of intuitive instinct, I would say, and I trust it more.

[00:21:47] So I can feel like when I, when I coach people, I'm doing it from presence. So I'm like the vibe I'm getting off the person is absolutely crucial to how the coaching session is going. And it's almost why I'm trusting more than [00:22:00] anything that's said in the room so I start like empathetic bond with the coaching client.

[00:22:05] I'm trusting that in myself, it applies to my creativity as well. So I'm trusting that instinct, but also having enough vulnerability to share that instinct, that idea with the world, knowing that it's like. Me, like, un uncensored, which makes you feel vulnerable, because if it gets, you know, criticized then they're really criticizing me there.

[00:22:26] They're not criticizing some story about me, or shell, or act, or identity. Like, it's a, it's genuinely me. But I think that everybody knows that's how the most powerful creative stuff works. You, you connect by being honest and vulnerable and authentic.

[00:22:42] Wow. And, and what sort of clients do you find yourself working with these days? Is it a whole mix or?

[00:22:49] Yeah, yeah, I work as a, with some other people as an associate coach, so I do a lot of work in pharmaceutical industry for those clients. I do work in creative agencies and marketing agencies and design agencies, so it's sort of my old, industry, but I've also done stuff like retail and, technology a bit.

[00:23:12] I'd like to do more with technology, actually start ups. That would be interesting, but yeah, quite a range of clients I would say.

[00:23:17] and this is a, this is a question I often mull over sometimes when I do, uh, lectures about acting coaching. It's interesting to hear you talk about your coaching in pharma because in my experience sometimes let's take pharma as an example. People in pharma want to coach who's worked in pharma and I respect that entirely.

[00:23:37] And as an alternative, I would say I can bring a curiosity and a naivety to my questions rather than assuming what I know about pharma is the same as what they're experiencing in, I say, a leadership role in pharma. does that resonate with

[00:23:53] Yeah. A hundred percent. It depends what kind of coaching you're doing,

[00:23:57] My coaching - bringing a grounded presence

[00:23:57] but my coaching is very much you're coaching [00:24:00] the person, not the problem. So it's the, it's the person who's showing up in the room, their emotional state, their thinking state. If you bring a grounded presence and come at it from compassion and curiosity and with a desire to really connect with that person, you can, it doesn't matter what the person's background is. I mean, having said that with, with my farmer leadership coaching work, I'm doing it with a team of other coaches. So one person does have a farmer background and two of us don't, but that blend works really nicely because they get like the reassurance and also. a more creative curious angle and then a more, the other person's a communication specialist, so they get like a whole suite of expertise basically.

[00:24:42] you? So I'm guessing, I'm guessing with your, your kind of blended career now, you're not looking to escape.

[00:24:49] Ha, no, definitely not. I'm looking to express my whatever's next occurs to me basically. I'm trusting the process like massively, so I'm really interested to see how this book is received. I guess I might, ideally, I might develop some Online program offered or a group coaching program around it and you know specific one to one clients who Resonate with the book so I can see a sort of evolution But it's also maybe someone will read the book who works for a business and they want me to do something in the business Who knows i'm just open to whatever's next really it's more about just whether it's fun.

[00:25:26] I mean, that sounds really privileged, but like, if I, if I like the person and I find it fun and engaging, I know I'll do a good job. So I just trust that basically.

[00:25:35] Oh, it's, it's like such a tonic to hear that you are just so content and you're not looking to plan out the next five years. You're just open to see what happens. And I think that could be some merch for Overthinkers Anonymous, Andrew, and I'll not even ask for a cut. That that trust the process I think is lovely,

[00:25:58] it can be a bit [00:26:00] nebulous, but I know exactly what that means. And it just makes trust yourself in the present moment and be open. Be open to what you're feeling as well as what you're thinking, and don't try and stifle what you're feeling, just experience it honestly, genuinely.

[00:26:14] Now, when you were writing this book, there must have been moments where you were like, Help? What the hell am I doing? I'm guessing. Are there any moments like that that stick in your mind?

[00:26:28] Yeah, yeah. So like I say, it was like running a marathon. So the mile 20, which was about three months ago, There was definitely a moment where I hit a wall where I'd fulfilled my original goal of writing a hundred pages So I'd written about a hundred and something pages of stuff that kind of worked It isn't too dissimilar to how the final version was But there was like a fundamental problem with the structure like the structure didn't work And I know from writing that like a structural problems can be the artist probably fix so that made me Think help.

[00:27:03] So I got one of my mates. It was a copywriter to read it and he gave me reassurance. He was like, this is good. Like, don't do this. This is, this is good. You can fix this. And in the end, after about, I don't know, a week or two, I kind of just simplified the structure within, which involves reworking quite a lot of it.

[00:27:20] But I was kind of just went all in on this, that really simple 28 day structure. I just thought I'll just write this as 28 days and that'll work because it's super simple as a structure and it kind of. Yeah, that made, that freed me up again to to start writing again because I knew what I had to do.

[00:27:37] like that last section, that home run section, I almost did that off the cuff. And that, that was, I was just in a flow state then. That was just like, okay, I've got through the barrier. This is just the last week. Oh, let's just do some fun stuff to get people to take action.

[00:27:51] Brilliant. And how does it feel knowing that you'll press the button to go live next week?

[00:27:58] How does it feel right now when I'm [00:28:00] tuning into literally what I just felt? Anx, ang, what's it, how do you put the word excitement and anxiety in the same word? Like,

[00:28:08] literally,

[00:28:09] ex, anxiety.

[00:28:10] Excitement,

[00:28:13] I felt, I felt, I felt a wave of anxiety, but also excited. I think this is going to be good, like genuinely. I think it's I'm not trying to be boastful or anything, but I think this is really good, this, this thing. It is genuinely good. So I hope people agree with it. And I think it's different enough as well.

[00:28:30] I mean, there's so many personal development books out there, but I think because this is my voice by definition, it's different to other stuff.

[00:28:38] here, here. I ab I absolutely agree and it's great to hear, like we said, two sides of the same coin, that excitement on one side and the anxiety and the other, it, it, it shows you connecting with what, what it's all about. I think.

[00:28:52] absolutely. Yeah. the concept of the window of tolerance came into my mind, you know, that Dan Siegel thing. So it's how much excitement, anxiety can you tolerate? And the idea is this window widens the more experience you have. So I think this is the next step of the widening of my window of tolerance.

[00:29:10] Beautiful. Now I'd like to ask my guests, Andrew, I'd like to ask them if they've got any take away for the listeners. Is there anything you could offer folks out there listening to this who perhaps notice that they themselves have a bit of a tendency to overthink? Anything, anything you'd give them as a take away?

[00:29:28] I think something that isn't in the book, but which I use quite often in my coaching is. the concept of the state of mind elevator. So this is to assess and become aware of where your thinking is, where your state of mind is. So if you think of the top of the elevator or the lift in English as a penthouse and that's when you're clear headed and in the zone and calm and you know Connected and compassionate all of the good qualities you want to be so that's like the top floor And [00:30:00] then the basement is the opposite.

[00:30:01] That's when you're stressed and overthinking and Reactive and impatient and on edge and you know, just that wired feeling of you feel like you've got a lot to do, but you can't make any progress and you're snappy with your kids and you can't be bothered to go to the gym. That's like the basement, which I experienced a lot.

[00:30:19] Don't get me wrong. So just as a first step to become aware of where you are in that elevator, that lift. So are you on 10 or are you on floor five or are you in the basement? And then it's almost like. The act of self awareness is curative in a way in itself. So even just become aware of that state helps the next step.

[00:30:41] I would say, which might change is differs from some other strategies. Don't over try to get yourself out of the basement. So don't force yourself to think positively or don't say, Oh, why am I so annoyed? Cause that's just going to keep you in the basement. It's about. Coming back to the present moment, the basics, basically, it's about grounded and taking some deep breaths and feeling calmer in the present moment.

[00:31:04] And then it's about going to the book and choosing whichever strategy you want to, to move or to implement or to think about, so the, the elevator metaphor, I think is a good thing as a takeaway.

[00:31:16] I love it. And I love the way that the book can then be a little menu. Once you've read it maybe a couple of times and work through it, you can go back and think what would best serve me here in the book from, from this little menu.

[00:31:28] Absolutely. That's the idea that I mean, in an ideal world, that's what I would love it to be.

[00:31:32] Wonderful. Well, I can't wait to see how the book does. I, I know it will resonate with so many people. So I'm so delighted to have you on the show to chat about it, Andrew. Thank you very much for joining me.

[00:31:45] Oh, thanks so much, Ross. It was a total pleasure. It was a genuine, um, fun experience. Thank you.

[00:31:50] That's it, part two of my chat with Andrew in the bag. I'd really [00:32:00] recommend you check out his book. You'll find all the links in the show notes. And there's a phrase that Andrew said towards the end of our chat. Self awareness is curative. Which I absolutely love and firmly believe in.

[00:32:12] .

[00:32:12] A big thanks to my producer Emma. We've got loads more ideas in the pipeline, so keep those ears peeled. If you like this episode or the podcast, please could you do three things? Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe and give us a five star review, whatever platform you're on.

[00:32:30] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.

[00:32:58] Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves, peace supers, and bye for now. That's a really good word. That's where I want to help other people get to that lightness. Everyone feels so heavy and like, Oh my God, it's like a nightmare. All these huge global problems as well as the day to day stresses. It's like, you can do what you're doing with more of a feeling of lightness than you currently are experiencing.

[00:33:28] I'm so glad we're still recording because that's going to go in the main body. What you've just said, that's brilliant.