My wrists are aching, my fingers are hurting my shoulders, everything is screaming. And somewhere around hour four of the crying, his and mine. 'cause at that point I had just broken down. I mean, you remember when your kids were babies, you know?

Right, right.

And I remember thinking, I'm done. If I just stopped breathing, the noise would go away. And I wouldn't have to feel like such a failure 'cause I wouldn't be here to feel it. And I remember it, it was almost like having these thoughts. It was an out of body experience, right? This recognition of like, oh my gosh, what are you saying? You know, what are you, what is happening? And I think just the awareness of, of what that was and having this, it was almost like I felt my future self calling out to me going, hang on, it's about to get so good.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic 'cause we were afraid

A Black Executive Perspective. We're coming to you live from the new BEP studio for another thought provoking episode of A Black Executive Perspective podcast, A safe space where we discuss all matters regarding race. Culture and those uncomfortable topics people tend to avoid. I'm your host Tony Tidbit. So before we get started on a fantastic episode, I wanna remind everyone to make sure you check out our partners at Code M Magazine, whose mission is to save the black family by first saving the black man. So check them out@codemmagazine.com. That is code m magazine.com. And so today, Dr. Seema Desai transformational success coach, speaker, and co-host of the award-winning Happy and Human Podcast joins us for a deep dive into the struggles and triumphs of high performing professionals. We'll unpack the invisible weight carried by ambitious leaders, the stress, self-doubt, and the feeling of never enough. I know that feeling 'cause I've been there a million times. Dr. Desai will share her powerful research and personal stories that challenges the status quo of the hustle culture through the lens of a woman of color, and will often offer practical strategies for reclaiming your power now. So let me tell you a little bit about my good friend Dr. Seema Desai. As I stated, she's a transformational speaker, credential executive coach, and advocate for the performance with purpose. She empowers ambitious, high performing leaders, not only to excel at work, but also nurture their wellbeing and cultivate meaningful connections at home. Drawing from her rich, cultural, heritage and personal journey, navigating imposter syndrome, postpartum depression, and the challenges of being a working mom. Dr. Desai brings a rare blend of empathy, insight, and real world experience to every leader she serves. She's the author of Connected Discovering Your Inner Guide, and as I stated earlier, the co-host of the multiple award-winning podcast, happy and Human, where she champions conversations around success and self-care. A committed change maker. Dr. Desai also serves on the executive board of Pham USA's Austin Chapter, driving educational equity for underserved children in India and beyond. Although no longer practice in dentistry, Dr. Desai early career as a general dentist, and Austin informs her holistic approach, treating not just symptoms, but the whole person, Dr. Seema Desai. Welcome to A Black Executive Perspective podcast. My sister,

oh my goodness, I am thrilled to be here. So excited. I cannot wait to dive into what's gonna be a really fun conversation.

Well, you are, you're not the only one that's excited, my friend. I mean, listen, your background is undeniable. What you're doing and how you're helping transform people's personal lives, get them off the rat wheel of the, you know, uh, the climb up the corporate ladder and making them feel at peace with themselves is beautiful. And this is something I've been looking forward to since we put it on the calendar. I've been looking forward to this date. Because this is something from my own experience that I've dealt with and still deal with. Mm-hmm. Right? That I can tell you thousands and thousands, maybe millions of people in corporate America or business owners or whatever the case may be. Athletes. Yeah. High, like you said, high achievers. Mm-hmm. That struggle with this because we only know one way and that way is full throttle 365 24 7. Correct. So I'm so happy to hear you to be here today so you can talk, talk to us about how we can throttle that down and still be just as effective, uh, in our endeavors and whatever we wanna achieve. Now, before we get into the heavy stuff, my sister, tell us a little bit about where you currently reside and then a little bit about your family.

Yeah, well, you know, Tony family is everything to me. I live in Austin, Texas, um, with my husband and two young children. They're not as young as they used to be. They're growing fast, but, uh, you know, we're loving life while they are still young and unable to drive and need us for all the things. Um, and we have a lot of extended family around too. So that, that definitely informs our day to day. And our, you know, month to month as well is, is heavily knitting in time with our nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, cousins. Um, that's really, really important to us.

That's awesome. How old are your kids?

My older one is 13, and so he's, he's right in it. He's right in that he is 13. Let me tell you. And my daughter is 10 and a half. So, you know, she's, they both kind of fall into those stereotypical, heteronormative boxes of tendencies, even first born and second born and all, all of those things. But, um, you know, we're enjoying every minute of it, even when it feels sticky and hard and, uh, you know, that, that's, that's I think, been such a gift. Really. Yeah. Is I feel like when I'm out and about, I really try to watch, it's important to me to be very aware of when I am in judgment of something or someone, um, because that says something about me, right? Mm-hmm. It doesn't say something about the other person so much as it says something about me. And that's where I have the power to really shift my perspective, or even just that awareness of recognition. Right. But I do see families out and about, and, um. You know, I, I used to be those families. I used to be that mom that was really angry and frustrated and stressed and, you know, had checked off all those boxes and still it felt like stress was how it was supposed to be. That there wasn't really a reprieve except for maybe that glass of wine or buying that cute handbag, maybe, uh, taking that vacation or eating that bowl of ice cream at 10 o'clock at night. Um, and it's, it's been such a gift. The work that I do now has been such a gift in order to be able to really create meaningful connection with people, especially my kids. 'cause it gets hard as parents. Right. We're navigating a lot, especially in this day and age with technology and things that just didn't exist when we were coming up.

Right,

right. So, you know, it's, it's been really great.

No, that is awesome. That is awesome. And listen, you know, you spoke a little bit about it, um, the work that you do. Mm-hmm. We went through your bio. Yeah. Um, you're very busy. Um, you have your own business. Mm-hmm. You're meeting and coaching people, you're traveling. You have an award-winning podcast that you're, you've created, um, you have a ton of guests that come on, which we'll dive into. So you're very busy. Right. And, and like I said, I circled this on the calendar 'cause I couldn't wait for us to have this conversation. Yeah. But the question I have, you know, why did you want to come on A Black Executive Perspective podcast? Talk about this topic.

You know, I think this is a really human condition and I think that this meaning, you know, ambition, stress, wanting to get to that next level. Um, and I've seen, you know, as a daughter of immigrants, just how critical. Family stability must be, um, regardless of what your family looks like, I know your listeners are, you know, coming from different backgrounds and things, but I, I have always felt like there is such similarity culturally even between, um, you know, people that I meet from, from the Black American population versus the Indian American population. And even going back into our African and um, Indian roots, you know, there's, there's so much crossover. There's so much. Even my in-laws, um, actually technically are, uh, Kenyan and Ugandan. Mm-hmm. Um, because they were born there. Right, right. They, they're Indian heritage, but they were born there and then they had their own, um, own history that, that they've shared and, and things, and were here in the States because, uh, they were courageous enough to, to leave and start a new life here. And my parents as well. But there's so much crossover, really, truly, especially I think with the what's expected of men. So, so similar.

Right. Right. Well listen, you already chomping at the bit you ready to, to dive into it, so I'm not gonna even stop you. Alright, let's do you ready to talk about it? My sister?

I'm so excited. Let's do this.

Okay. Let's talk about it. So listen, let's, let's set this up. You know, and you spoke a little bit about it a minute ago when you talk about, um, when you are out walking the earth and you see other families, and obviously like you said, you don't try to judge anything like that, but you can see the stress and the things that people are dealing with even when they're dealing with their own family. Right. And trust me, I could raise my hand. I've been there as well. Right. And you know, one of the things when we, and that's just everyday individuals, right? But when we talk about high achievers mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. There's an inner pressure to perform.

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Mm-hmm. To deliver, to be more. Right. And a lot of times we don't talk about that. Right. But in everything, you know, there's a cost. Mm-hmm. Right? And that cost is affecting us. And sometimes we give up things to get things right, right. But we don't recognize the cost. So let's talk a little bit, tell us a little bit like what's some of the, the burnout signals. That you see with high performing leaders? Yeah. The ones that come to you and say, Hey, I need help. Talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. You know, I mean, I think burnout is a whole other level of, um, manifestation of symptoms, right. So we have you, you touched on this beautifully. Oftentimes we're not aware, and the reason we're not aware is because we've never known any different. Right. The, the awareness is what is so critical. Um, and I think it really solves a lot of the, because your intuition will kick in once you are aware it can't not.

Right,

right. Um, there will be may maybe you may not be aware of the whisper that your intuition says, like, oh, maybe this, maybe this is costing me. Maybe things could be better, maybe, you know, but, but the awareness is such, such, uh, an important first step to make of. How is this affecting me, this ambition, this, um, drive, it's what it's effective in that it will get you to where you are, right? You might have that title, you might have that salary, you might have the millions in the bank. Um, and even if not, you may very well have, uh, the path to get there, but what got you here won't get you there. And, and working hard and doubling down. And, you know, I see it in terms of symptoms of people pleasing, uh, for women more than men. But, you know, there is some of that I think across the board controlling, uh, you know, just needing to control and have the final say on everything. Being, you know, having those perfectionist tendencies and the thoughts of, well, if I don't handle it, it's not gonna get done correctly and I'm gonna wind up doing it anyway, so let me just take care of it. Right? Um, there can be, I don't, I. I'm trying to figure out a, a better way to use the word victim because it's, but it is that helplessness, right? It, I don't think victim is necessarily the most accurate, uh, reflection. 'cause it brings up other connotations, but that helplessness of being out of control, right? This is happening to me. I, my boss is this way, my job is this way, the commute is this long, my house is too small, my kids don't listen. Um, these are all kind of symptoms of things that we experience as high achievers and we tell ourselves that we've gotta push through.

Right? Right.

And, and it's, it's comes at a cost, I call it the stress tax. 83% of just the US alone is, um, reports being highly stressed and. Most of that, um, stress actually is reported as, as bleeding over into other parts of our life, right? So the job stress is high. It bleeds over into our families. It bleeds over into our health. It bleeds over, um, into the other relationships and our ability to even have the hobbies that we used to have as kids, right? Right. So many executives and high performers, it's like, oh, I don't have time. I used to play the piano as a kid, or I used to run, I used to draw, I used to sing. And we've, we've come away from this element of, of play that makes us, uniquely us as individuals, and it costs us, we tell ourselves it doesn't, that nobody has time for it. Um, but, but the, the stat that shocked me the most was that our external circumstances only dictate about 10% of our lived reality.

Wow. Wow. Let you know what, stop right there. I wanna, I wanna, because you said something. Oh, you said a lot.

I said a lot. All,

all good stuff though, right? Um, but I wanna, I wanna just remember that point 'cause I wanna come back to it, but I, I wanna ask you this question. Um, so at the end of the day, how much of this is based on what we're told when we're young? And how were brought up, right? Because at the end of the day, let's be fair, I, I grew up, nobody said, well, you can just ease in the work. Or, you know what? You can just, you know, you ain't gotta push hard. You'll still be successful, right? How many cliches do we hear all the time? It's hard work. You gotta fight through the pain. You have to keep going. Persistence. You know, one of my favorite quotes, I think it was by, uh, uh, Grover Cle Rapids, a a, uh, uh, Coolidge, right? That, you know, persistence, pe you still keep showing up. You still keep doing it. How much is this is the culture at work? How many people have you seen that raise their hand up and say, you know what, you're working me too hard, or, I need more time, and they become successful. Okay? You don't see that, right? So, right. I mean, to be fair, we kind of created monsters. Yes. Okay. To be fair. Yeah. And then, so a lot of times you don't know you a monster until the high blood pressure or until you snap or until. So talk a little bit about that because you know, you said 80, hold on, I just wanna make sure I got the stat right. 83%, excuse me, 10%, I think, let me get this point. Yeah. 10% is external. That means 10% of stuff that you don't have control over, it affects you. So that means what? 90, excuse me. Uh, 90, excuse me. 10% of the, so 90, you saying 90% of all the things from all the things that's rise, uh, that's increasing my stress hormones. That's putting me under the gun is self-inflicted.

Yes. And I know that is. A really hard thing to look in the mirror with.

So wouldn't that be a correlation though, in terms of how you are told to show up every day, how you're told that the only way you can become successful is by doing all these things in excess? Yeah. Do you've been told don't cry, don't why? Just deal with it with, so that's the correlation, right? That's the 90 10. Wouldn't you, wouldn't you say? Yes.

And it is costing us look at where we are as society Now, can you honestly say, and I'm not, not to put you, you on the spot, but No, you can say, you can put me, I'm, I'm, I'm part of the 90. Well, and, and there's so many ways I could go with this, but first of all, let's, let's pause here and say, when I say 90% is in your control, there's a huge difference between blame and responsibility, right? So we can say, well, but my mom, you know, she, she brought me up this way. My dad, my culture, my this, my that. I came up. I, I am from an immigrant family. Okay. We did not have much, um, in the way of privilege. There was no, I, I'm the first doctor in my family. Um, you know, so I, I wanna acknowledge it is easy to sit there and say, well, it's because of my circumstances. Yes. But they're not as heavily inf as heavily influential as we might want to believe, right? Our egos will tell us that it's way more influential than it actually is. So what we can do is empower ourselves with taking responsibility. And the beauty of that is you don't need an app. You don't need a subscription. You can do it anytime, anywhere. Cultivating an awareness for how you are thinking and how you are seeing the world that's readily available to anyone. The caveat is you must be willing to do the work. You must be willing to put in an effort. It's not, it's, it becomes easier over time with more practice. But when you first start trying to look at the world a different way. It, it is effort for sure.

Right. Let me, you know, let's, let's go to, to what you just gotta finish saying about your own background. Okay. And, you know, didn't grow up with much, um, had to work hard. You know, you, you became a dentist, um, there, uh, you became a mother, um, married. So there was a lot of pressures Okay. That you had to deal with, that you probably dealt with, right? Mm-hmm. So how did your own lived experience and the things that you went through, depression stuff to that nature shaped your mind? How did you get out of that mindset? Yeah. And started being able to take more control back.

Yeah. Well, and I think this kind of goes back to your earlier question, right? What are the signs of things like burnout and, and things? And that was starting to happen to me. I, I was in the burnout phase where, you know, I was always, you know. In Sanskrit, they're called vasanas. Right? They're tendencies. So this perfectionism, this, this deep desire to not get like a 99, that's not good enough. I need to get 105.

Right?

Right. That level of commitment and ambition and drive, um, that had always been my mo and it does cost, it costs us sleep, it costs us our health, it costs us all of these things, the quality of our relationships, the amount of stress we feel. But to your point, those are, um, it's like they siphon very, very quietly. And for me, what happened was I hit burnout. And burnout is characterized more in just a flat out. I cannot go on anymore. I am too tired to, um, you know, and the things that you used to love doing, things like, um, you know, I, I used to love baking. I used to love. Reading just for fun. All of these things that I used to love doing. And I just was like, I don't wanna do any of it. Now

where were you when that happened? Were you, did that just, did you wake up one day that way? Or were you in the middle of a high stress moment that you finally broke down?

I think it was very, very insidious and gradual. Um, now I will happily share my moment of reckoning, but it started out, I remember I flipped out on a lady in line at the deli and I had only been a doctor for two years that I had no idea that being in a mentally and physically demanding job that I didn't love was actually taking its toll to the point. Mm-hmm. Where, I mean, my husband looked at me and he was like, who are you? Mm-hmm. This is not the person that I know. Like you would never flip out on anyone. Um, and I don't even remember what it was about. Right. But that was kind of looking back. I wasn't conscious of it then, but that was sort of my first. Experience of like, oh, maybe I need to reevaluate. Well, what happens when we ignore the signs is it's like, imagine you're on a, a highway, right? And your GPS says exit now. Like, I'll send you a sign exit now, and you don't exit and you keep going and it says, all right, I'm gonna reroute you exit now. Right? So that next exit, now sign. You know, there was just different things with work. I would consistently blame, um, patients. I would blame the office location. I would blame anything and everything for why I was miserable. Um, and it led to me just saying like, I'm gonna take a, take a step back. But I didn't change my thinking. I just took a break from work, right? So I kept digging even though I wasn't actually showing up to work. Keep going down the highway at 150 miles an hour and we have this baby. And I remember my son. We, there were a lot of contributing. I. Factors that went into me experiencing what I did and I'm, you know, it was an undiagnosed postpartum anxiety and depression. Um, but I remember him being five months old and I was in this noisy, drafty apartment and he was crying and crying. My back is aching. My, my fit, my wrists are aching, my fingers are hurting my shoulders, everything is screaming. And somewhere around hour four of the crying, his and mine, 'cause at that point I had just broken down. I mean, you remember when your kids were babies, you know?

Right, right.

And I remember thinking, I'm done. If I just stopped breathing, the noise would go away and I wouldn't have to feel like such a failure 'cause I wouldn't be here to feel it. And I remember it was almost like having these thoughts. It was. An out of body experience, right? This recognition of like, oh my gosh, what are you saying? You know, what are you, what is happening? And I think just the awareness of, of what that was and having this, it was almost like I felt my future self calling out to me going, hang on, it's about to get so good. Just hang on. Just take that next breath. Just take that next breath. That's all you need to think about is that next breath. And, you know, advocating for I think something's wrong was really difficult. It's easier to deny it. Right? Um, my husband at the time was not to, you know, not at all to, to blame him. It was just easier for both of us to pretend that something wasn't wrong. Um, but I think slowly coming out of it that meant. Me getting outta the house, it meant me incorporating movement back into my day. 'cause I wasn't doing that. I was socially isolated. Just me and my baby at home. And my husband would go to work and come back and he was the only person I would ever see. Mm-hmm. Um, and these are kind of obvious things as you, as you think about them, but when you're in it, they're not. They're not. No.

You're a hundred percent right. You know, you know, there's an old saying that pigs don't know. Pigs stink. Yes. Okay. When you're in the Pigpen, everything seems normal. As soon as you get out the Pigpen, the first thing you say is, what's that funky smell? Okay, so you're a hundred percent right. So how did you elevate out of it? And then more importantly, then created a business to help other people, especially high achievers, because that's really nine times outta 10. Those are the individuals that, and I, I'll be honest with you, not everything that you went through is verbatim for me, but I I've been through that. Right, right. And I've seen a bunch of people go through that. So talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. Well, and I think that's just really, it is, you, you mentioned this idea of working hard, right. And we, we believe that that's what we're taught is work hard and you're gonna get the results that you want and it costs. So what I think people don't know is that you don't have to. I want you guys to, to really listen to this. When I say you don't have to work hard, you do not have to work hard by way of knowing all the answers and grinding it out. You do have to show up consistently. There will be times where it is challenging, some days will be harder than others, but you don't need to kill yourself or have all the answers in order to get, not only to where you wanna go, but beyond where you ever thought possible, right? And so when I, you know, it was a, a surreal experience for me to listen to you share my intro with the audience because no way would I have ever been able to predict all of that being true and me feeling really good about it and not having that self-doubt about, oh, I don't know, you know, that, that doesn't seem right. I don't know that I'm qualified. No. Um, I think. When I first decided to stop practicing dentistry, I remember my son was eight and he kept asking me, mommy, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do now? What are you gonna do now? And I didn't know, and I think we tell ourselves as high, high achievers, who by the way, we got to where we are by having a plan.

There's no question,

right? I know I need to do well in school, and then I need to get into university. When I get into university, I need to take this exam so I can get into my MBA or I can get into my law school or medical school or what. Like we know exactly what exams we need to do well on, what classes we need to do to prepare us for that outcome. Um, and I'm not saying that that doesn't have value, right? It, it is not a, an exclusive either this or that. It is a yes and scenario. So for me, this looked like, and for my clients, what they, what they discover for themselves to be true. 'cause they don't have to have all the answers. Their plan needs to be, uh, more focused on, alright, how can I feel at ease in the moment? How can I actually feel confident in the moment? Um, even when I don't know the answers, when things feel out of control, um, getting clear on when am I in judgment? When am I having this strong desire to dig deeper and push harder and learning to ease up, because that's physiologically when your brain can make those executive decisions a little bit better. Right? When we're stressed, we're focusing only on, we're only able to use the lower part of our nervous system. So our decision making is affected. We're not able to see all the opportunities in front of us. And importantly, we fool ourselves into thinking that the opportunities in front of us are gonna get us to where we want. Right,

right.

But for me, what happened was I had no idea and I just took it, you know, some days it was one day at a time. Other, you know, just trusting. And I know that sounds very amorphous and very, we want the plan, we want a step by step. But guys, your greatest expression of who you are, that is a divine plan. That's a divine plan. That's why it's not clear to you right now as you are stressed, as you are navigating all of these things. So when you stop and slow down and say, all right, and, and an example for me is I wanted to go back and, and do yoga teacher training. Um, that's what I tried to do, tried to do. And the universe kept shutting me down, right? For whatever reason, I never actually, still to this day have done yoga teacher training. But what did come through was going to coaching school. I was getting coached myself, and then I'd finished with my engagement with my coach, and then I had another friend reach out and she said, you know, I'm gonna do this coaching thing. It was during the pandemic. And she said, I think you would really enjoy it even if you don't want to become a professional coach. Um, and then through that and social media posting and things like, I, I did go to coaching school and turns out coaching is just all the theoretics of yoga applied. Right, right. It's not the actual physical pose, but it's the non-judgment. It's the, the non-violence, the, the do no harm, the, all of those things. Um, and I, I don't, I wound up publishing a book. I never thought I would do that. That was literally, these things just happen. They fall into place. Because what happens is you start thinking more authentically. And the universe, quantum physics. I know it sounds really, again, some people might, might dismiss this as, um, illogical or fluff, but really the quantum physics and, and how this works is you start tapping into a higher frequency of existence and then what you actually want to create will find you. Right, right. But there has to be a frequency match and then it just happens. It's called the Law of Least Effort. And a book that I'd love to recommend to, to, um, your listeners is Deepak Chopra's book, the Seven Laws of Spiritual Success or something like that. I have it on my, one of my kids might, might have it, I don't know, but it's, the Seven Laws of Spiritual Success is, I believe what it's called. It's a short book. It's like seven bucks on Amazon. But it, he does a beautiful job of explaining why it's so critically important to, to stop forcing our way through and just be present with what is now so that you can actually. Easefully create what it is that you want and what's meant for you,

you know? So number one, thank you for that. It, and unfortunately, it seems you have to, you have to, you have to get broke down. Okay. You have to, you know, get to a point where, what's that old famine, Lou Hamer saying, I, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. Mm-hmm. Right? Uh, because I would imagine most of your, um, um, uh, clients are people who. Fit that bill. Yeah. Versus somebody who comes in and says, you know what, before I get started with this stuff, I wanna make sure that I'm in alignment and stuff to that nature. Nine times outta 10, that doesn't happen. Right? No, it ha You have to get to a point, like, with your own, uh, personal story and my own story and everybody else's story where you get to a point because you don't know that you're gonna break and you may hear it and, and, and people may tell you you're doing too much or take a step back. I, I could imagine you probably had friends and family telling you at the same time, look, see much chill. It's gonna be okay. And you're looking at 'em like, what are you talking about? Okay. So I, I, I think, you know, people sometimes they have to, you know, hit rock bottom

Yeah.

Before they get to that point. But go ahead. You were gonna, you were gonna interject.

No, I, I was just gonna agree. But you know, the, the thing about high achievers is we're often surrounded by other high achievers. So,

and this is so true. It's so true, right? So, and then the people who are not high achievers saying, Hey, you need to chill out, you looking at them. That's why you sitting where you are. Get outta my face. No, no. So then that's our mindset, right? Yeah. So it becomes tough to do unless you get to that point where you are like, because we, and look, I re and, and I love the spirituality because to me, and that's biblical right, is at some point you gotta let this, you gotta let it go, right? Yeah. And you gotta give it to God and you gotta keep moving. And I remember I had a situation, this was years ago, man, where I was, I was, I mean, pulling, burning the candle at both ends of the stick. And I remember being at work. I never forgot this.

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And it came to a point where everything seemed like it was crashing down on me. Mm-hmm. All at one time. Yeah. And I remember I left work in the middle of the day. I just left and I went home. And my mother-in-law, this was my first marriage, my mother-in-law was there. Mm-hmm. And you know, we had a good relationship, but we wasn't all that tight. But I walked through the door and she said, why are you home from work? And I went up to her and I hugged her and I cried uncontrollably. Yeah. For a good 10 50. I mean, every, and I'm, and this is a person who didn't cry. This is a person who was taught men shouldn't cry. Mm-hmm. You know, it's weakness if you cry. All those things. I held all that in. And then fell into her arms and cried uncontrollably for 10 to 15 minutes. Okay. I was at my bottom and I remember her saying to me, Tony, you gotta give this to God. You gotta give it to Jesus. And I mean that I, and I felt a lift. Mm-hmm. Come off my, you know, so back to the rock bottom. I get it. I totally get it. Right. So talk a little bit about your clients and some of the things that you prescribe them to be able to do to slowly. 'cause I love the law. You know, there's a book I read called the, um, it was, the Law is, I forget it was by Bob Berg. Mm-hmm. It was a different law though. It was the same law, but a different, um. Uh, nomenclature. It was called the law left field. Okay. That you put all this energy out, right. And you're expecting it to come from this way. Mm-hmm. Right? But then all of a sudden it comes from over here and be boom. And you're like, and then people are like, you were lucky. No, I wasn't lucky that, that's me putting all this energy out. So talk a little bit about some of the things you've prescribed. Yeah. To a person like me who was broke down, who cried uncontrollably, high achiever, talk to me, doc, what would you do? I get an, do I take an apple, I get an aspirin, or you know what, what I'm saying, Tylenol, go home, talk to me.

And, and that's the thing, right? Is I, I talk so much about awareness, but what you do with that awareness, right? Recognizing for you in that moment, coming home to your mother-in-law and crying, you know, you kind of hinted at this question earlier, do we need to hit rock bottom? I think for some of us, especially high achievers, we do have to kind of. Have that bottom, we need to have something that's the impetus for change. Um, and then for some of us, it could be just, you know, a friend having a triple bypass surgery at age 40 and that's the, oh my God, I don't wanna, you know, leave my wife and kids, um, at, at such a young age. It, it, it could look like rock bottom can look like and feel like very different things for very different people. So it doesn't mean that you're just gonna wind up in the hospital or behind bars and that's your rock bottom. Right. Right. So, so I wanna acknowledge, you know, what, what that looked like for you. Yes. The, that narrative of, you know, we don't cry and big girls don't cry and big boys don't cry. Especially when the expectations and, and we don't have the privilege as people of color, we don't have that margin. Right. No, we've gotta overperform No, we gotta

overperform over.

Exactly. And so I wanna acknowledge that that is true. And also, and also. 90% is up to us. And so we have to cultivate this awareness. Just, you know, but then not judge ourselves for when that happens. And I'll give you an example. Um, say my son says something to me, right? And I feel like it's not what I wanted to hear, or maybe I, you know, whatever the situation is, and we get into a little bit of back and forth, right? That is a result of me being in judgment of him. Now, you can hold a boundary, and this is, this is a, you know, it's a learned skill. I want to reiterate to listeners, this is not something that, it is intuitive, but it's, it's something that you need to cultivate and strengthen. Um, but recognizing when you're in judgment, I don't like what this person is saying or doing. I, you know, I, this is right or wrong, good or bad. Um, helpful, not helpful. This is, you know, hard or easy. Those are all judgements. And when we sit there and we say, oh, man, I, I shouldn't have snapped at him. I shouldn't have, uh, what, you know, reacted in the way that I did. Now I'm judging myself for judging myself. Right? And that's, that's kind of where I actually am Earlier. It was just recognizing like, oh, I got mad. Okay. Instead of being upset for getting mad, or upset for being stressed, or upset for whatever, however you reacted, just recognize in, in your moment, I'm there and I'm crying with my mother-in-law. That doesn't make me weak. That doesn't make me less capable, that doesn't mean anything other than I need to be here now, be present. If I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling sad. If I'm feeling like I wanna cry, that is a human reaction.

It's okay. It's okay.

You would never blame a lion for roaring or a zebra for having stripes. Crying is a human thing, so we don't need to make it a problem. Right? So that's kind of where I start to, that's where we get ourselves as high achievers is it's not only the awareness, oh this is, these are the patterns that are creating my, my issues. But now I'm gonna judge myself for having those patterns, even though I quote unquote know better. Well, no, we're learning, we're rewiring our brains. So you know that that is something that I think most people tend to, to fall off on.

So would that be like the first step? So if we had to, and again, everybody's situation is different. Okay, sure. As you acknowledge, right? But if they hit rock bottom wherever they are. Right. And now they wanna start making change. Mm-hmm. Is the first step just really acknowledging that you're a human being. Yeah. And not, you know, that it is what it is. Yeah. And not to judge yourself, um, and be okay. Recognize that you are you, is that the, that's what I'm hearing here, is that the first step?

Absolutely. It, that's absolutely it. Where you are, you would not, you know, you would not get to where you are divinely meant to be without being here now in this moment. Acknowledge that. Accept it. I'm, you know, I'm at rock bottom. Okay. Anybody look at, look out there at anybody who's done anything great ever, never is there. And I try to stay away from never and always, but I think, you know, we can safely say, never do these people who have accomplished amazing things, never have they said, oh, it was easy. All the time. I never had any challenges.

And that's a fair, that's an excellent point, right. Is that, you know, a lot of times we think that God frowned on us. Mm-hmm. Okay. That our situation is everybody else is living and, and, and enjoying themselves and, and they're not dealing with these issues. And it is only me. Yeah. Okay. And you are a hundred. And then so we put ourselves on an island. Right. And you know, Gilligan's still waiting to be rescued. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, we don't recognize that other people are dealing with the exact same issues, maybe even worse, to be fair. Right. Right. So talk a little bit about how one of your, your, your, your, your clients Yeah. Made one simple change that created a ripple effect in their life mm-hmm. Where they went from rock bottom and then now they're over and they are just in, you know, heaven and, and I don't wanna say heaven, but they've really turned their situation around.

Yeah. Well, and you, first of all, I think we create our self-created hell or self, self-created heaven. Really, truly. Um, so, and there's so many client stories that just flooded my brains, uh, my brain when you, when you ask that, but. You know, I'll share really two quick ones. One I just had coached, um, this female physician, she was up for a promotion and, you know, from an Asian background. And she's like, well, you know, I'm up for this thing. If I take it, I'm gonna be away from my kids more. I'm gonna be seeing patients less, but I don't wanna tell my parents, you know, that I turned down a promotion and a pay raise. Like, what kind of, what is that? That's opposite of what they taught me to do. Um, and, and, you know, watching her and coaching her through so that she could recognize, oh my gosh, taking this promotion would mean that I would be living a life that I didn't wanna live. I want time with my kids. I want to see my patients. I want to be able to have bandwidth to maybe do some gardening on the weekends. And if I say yes to this promotion, I'm saying no to all of those things that by accepting that promotion, then I would say, oh, I'm gonna grumble about the fact that I can't garden and this and that. Right? So you've gotta make a choice. And I, I really don't like the word compromise, because when you're making an empowered choice, no longer is it a compromise. A compromise means that you're giving up on something. Right?

Right,

right. No, we wanna make empowered choices and they may not be choices that we like. You know, I don't wanna pay taxes necessarily, but when I pay taxes, I wanna be grateful that I had an income that I, you know, had ways to, you know, that there's things that the government does for us, right? Like there's a system in place. So even, even something like paying taxes, nobody wants to pay taxes, but you can still infuse. Uh, an empowerment there. A, a a level of gratitude. No, I'm, I'm doing this with not, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. Right. Well,

I think, I think also though, you said the key thing though. I, I really, which I really, you know, I'm just sitting here thinking as you, as you stated it, you said, I want, yeah. Right. I want, I want a garden. I, so if I do this thing. If I get this, yeah. It'll be okay. Yeah. But it's not gonna give me what I want. Yeah. Right. That's gonna make me happy as an individual. Right. And so I think that's a huge, and I don't, I don't think a lot of times we go to that, we go to, well, I'm gonna take it. You know, it is not really what I really wanna do, but you know what? I feel I have to do it. Alright. So we start compromising and then next thing you know, we're down a rabbit hole. Yeah. Okay. Because it's not what we want, it's something we think we need to do. Right? Yeah. And so, and here's the other thing. Let me, well, let me hear you a second. Let a second. Uh, yeah. Just forget,

you know, the, the question I get is, how long does it take for me to feel the effects of this? Yeah. Right? And they think, people think because it's a new skill, it's gonna take time. The beauty of this is, it's an instant. I had a client once who said, um, you know, we had just started coaching together. She wound up. At a, a, her company was sponsoring a golf tournament and she said, I hate going to these things. I'm not really great at golf. I don't enjoy it. I always feel, you know, insert all of her reasons. And what's, what happened was she wound up at this golf tournament and somebody, she was one of the few women there, one of the other women came up to her and made a, an off-color remark about, you know, her golf game and what that meant as far as what kind of worker she was. And it was this whole thing. And she said, you know, in that moment, because we had just come off of a coaching session and I had guided her through, um, I call my framework crossing the bridge. So it's three steps. Um, the first step is creating awareness for when you are in what I call guard mode, right? Any icky feeling, any sense of stress. Um, when you're feeling embarrassed, when you're feeling worried, when you're feeling, you know, any type of stress. That's your breadcrumb. To shift, right? So she said, all right. I knew that what this person said was gonna stress me out, so I excused myself. And then she went through a couple of techniques. There's various things you can do, breath work, you can do tapping, you can, um, you know, you can pray, you can meditate, you can uh, even do some movement with some light running something. Um, but I, she had a set of things that she practiced and in that coming back and centering her nervous system back into, um, the parasympathetic right, not the non-stressed, she was able to have her nervous system come back online. And her intuition then kicked in and she said, you know what? That person's remarks, that's about them and their own insecurities. That has nothing to do with me. And so she was able to come back and she said, you know what? I just didn't let it bother me and I played the best golf game of my life, and I actually closed a deal in the process.

Wow, awesome. And, you know,

so we, we can actually perform better if we just have that awareness and don't judge ourselves. Our intuitions will kick in and take care of the rest.

I love that story. I love those stories. I love your energy. I love everything that you're bringing to the table. My sister. And, and so you, when we went back to the stats, when you said 90% Yeah. Is within our control and 10% is what? That right there epitomizes that. Right? Because that was a mindset sh that was a mindset shift. And that was, let me take a step back. Mm-hmm. Let me get my thoughts. This ain't about me. This is about that person. I'm not gonna let that person steal my joy. And that was a choice. Yes. Right. And so what I'm hearing is a lot of these things is stuff that we can change. And I love what you said. That was instant, you know, not instant, but it was fast. Right? Right. And so that is awesome, and I can see why, um, you're so successful. And matter of fact, I'm gonna have to see if I can, you know, get an appointment. Right. So I can come in, you can sit down and talk to the tidbit, and so we can, you know, you can help me out. Right. Let me ask you this final thoughts. What do, well, let me, before we go to final thoughts, let's, let's do, let me ask you this question. Do you think people of color mm-hmm. Do they have a harder time in terms of letting go? Especially I'm talking to high achievers. Mm-hmm. Because you, you know, you said something earlier, which is so true. Right. We feel that we have to work twice as hard as everyone else. We feel that if we don't show up and look a certain way or speak a certain way, we're being judged. It's gonna, it's going to hamper our ability to move forward. We feel that if we can't, if we, if we took our foot off the gas, like some of our colleagues and stuff, we wouldn't get recognized for opportunities, right? If we don't take care of our kids a certain way, they're gonna be, uh, you know, uh, stereotyped or generalized as this and that, or we're not gonna be, you know, this is what this group of parents do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Talk. Tell me a little bit about that. What's your thoughts on that?

I believe the more and more I do this work, it is critical to be very careful of that narrative. Because while it may be true that, look, I'm gonna acknowledge society as it is right now, it is not equitable. It is not equitable for people of color. It is not equitable for, for women, it is not equitable. Um, in, in many, many other ways. Right? People with disabilities, people who don't identify in this, in the cisgender, heteronormative, like there are all sorts of inequities. And also if we allow ourselves to keep feeding into this, what we're doing is giving that 10% a lot of power.

Mm-hmm. And what we

focus on gets bigger.

Mm-hmm.

So there's an art to a yes and acknowledge, but then understand how much power we actually do have. Mm-hmm. Because what happens then is when we, and I'll, and I'll give you um, an example. I was just last week sitting at a table with three white men. And I had a moment of, I don't know what I'm doing at this table. I don't know that I'm going to resonate with any of 'em. Even though most of the people in the room I knew were, were, they're change makers. Right. I inherently, the populace was not a cross section of, of the general population. Right,

right, right, right.

But even within that, there was a moment of, Ooh, I don't know. And when I just acknowledged it and said, I'm gonna be myself, what happened was two of those men came up to me separately and said, I really enjoyed our conversation. And that, that meaningful connection, that's all we want. So when we can show up for ourselves out of non-judgment and compassion and acceptance, and then we're fully vibrant and alive, then and only then can we, we can't control what other people say or do. Right. But we can. Right, right. We can create an environment where the other person feels psychologically safe to maybe take down. Their walls a little bit and facilitate real, commun real connection and communication that crosses gender, that crosses orientation or skin color. And if you're still shut down, I want listeners, I want you to hear this. The universe is actively contriving for you to succeed. It is actively contriving for you to succeed. So if there's a, a little resistance there, that's what I meant by not working hard. Don't fight the resistance pivot. That's your sign to shift because the current of the universe will carry you forward beyond what you think you can do. I

love it. I love it. I love it. My girl. Preach. Tell 'em what time it is, Sima. No, that is awesome my girl. And thank you for that because you are a hundred percent right. Um, any anything else you wanna leave? 'cause you just left a bomb right there. And I think that should resonate to any everyone who's listening and watching this. Anything else? My sister.

Uh, no. Not, I mean, I, I think I love to talk so I don't wanna overwhelm and I think I'm just gonna stop it right there. I welcome any questions or feedback or, you know, anything like that. I'm on social, so if anybody wants to reach out and pick, pick my brain on something I've said here. I'm, I welcome that.

Well, listen, you've been given so much. Today, how can A Black Executive Perspective podcast help you?

Well, um, I have two things. One, I'm actively looking for speaking roles and things like that. Like I, I am developing two keynotes, um, and I love speaking. I love connecting with people this way. Podcasting is just the virtual way of doing that. And so if there's, if there's anything, any of your listeners have an event that you'd like me to, to be at, um, reach out. And then the other thing too is if you're looking for one-on-one support, um, Tony, you know this, you and I've talked about it, the Energy Leadership Index assessment, um, and, and debrief. This is such a great way to get a handle on very many of the things we talked about in this podcast episode today. It's about managing your energy. Right. And so anyone can take an assessment, but this is not a, a strengths finder. This is not a personality test. This is literally a map of your energy and how you show up in situations when you're stressed, when you're not stressed, and how you're making decisions. So when we can get an awareness of this, and then you get guided through a, in a private session with me, here's what, here's what we know now, what do you wanna do about it? You can create a bespoke action plan to help you actually get to that next level and make, make decisions about what's gonna actually serve you and what you wanna put down. Um, I've had some incredible client client stories that just, even just in the one session, if they never even get a full 12 session package that I offer for private coaching, even the one session is really, really helpful. So if you're interested in looking at that or learning more about that, it's dr sema desai.com/ EI. And I'm sure, Tony, you're gonna have this in the show notes as well.

There's no question. Say that. Say the website again.

It's dr Seema Desai.com. So D-R-S-E-E-M-A-D-E-S-A i.com/e LI.

That is awesome, my girl. Thank you so much for your energy, your expertise, your love of your fellow human being. Mm-hmm. Um, I am so happy that you are on A Black Executive Perspective podcast today. You filled my spirit up. You gave me a lot of different antidotes to be able to utilize, and so I'm recommending that anyone that wants to know more definitely dive into sema, check her out at her website, um, and also leave us feedback and stuff to that nature. But I wanna thank Dr. Sema Desai for appearing on A Black Executive Perspective podcast.

Thank you guys so much for having me.

So now I think it's time for Tony's tidbit and the tidbit today. Burnout doesn't prove your worth. It proves you've been given too much to things that will never love you back. Choose peace over proving. And you heard a lot of that. From our friend, Dr. Seema Desai so don't forget to check out. This week's Need To Know by Dr. Nsenga Burton on A Black Executive Perspective podcast. Dr. Burton dies into the timely and crucial topics that shape our community and world, things that you don't have time to check out. You can watch her or listen to her, and she'll educate you and deepen your understanding of the issues that matter. You don't want to miss. Need to know by Dr. Nsenga Burton on A Black Executive Perspective podcast. And definitely don't miss our next episode of Pull Up. Speak Up. Where our round table dives into the most provocative issues. We have bold, unfiltered voices that have sharp perspectives. This is real talk. These are everyday individuals sharing their perspectives on the things that matter. Tune in. It's not just a re uh, a episode, it's a revolution. So as most of you know, and for those who don't, if this is your first time listening or watching A Black Executive Perspective podcast, our goal, our call to action, our mission is to decrease all forms of discrimination. And the way we're asking everyone to do this is with the acronym called less, LESS and L stands for learn. You wanna educate yourself on racial and cultural nuances, the more that you can learn about people that you don't know is going to enlighten you. And then after you learn, you have the letter E, which stands for empathy. Now since you've learned, now you can put yourself in your other brothers and sisters shoes 'cause you understand where they're coming from. And then after empathy, you have the first S, which is share. Now you wanna share what you've learned and the new insights you have to other people so they can become enlightened. And then the fight os is Stop. We wanna stop. You wanna stop discrimination as it walks in your path. So if I. Or Uncle Joe says something at the Sunday dinner table that's inappropriate. You say, aunt Jenny, uncle Joe, we don't believe that. We don't say that. And you stop it right there. So if everyone can incorporate less, LESS will build a more fair, more understanding world and we'll all see the change that we wanna see, because less will become more. Don't forget to follow A Black Executive's Perspective podcast on YouTube, apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And you can follow us on our socials of LinkedIn, X YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook at a black exec for our fabulous guests, Dr. Seema Desai. Want to thank her? Uh, I'm your co. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit. We talked about it. We learned about it today. We laughed about it. We're still going to strive about it. And guess what? We are gonna be a lot easier, but we're gonna thrive about it. We love you. And now it's time for us to get out A Black Executive Perspective.