Well, 2023 is almost over.

What have we learned and where are we going?

I'm Paul Comfort, and today's Transit Unplugged podcast features the CEO

of the American Public Transportation Association, or APTA, APTA.

Mr.

Paul Skoutelas who will tell us the answers to those questions.

He's been a friend to the program appearing many times

on our video and audio shows.

Plus he's been a guest on Transit Unplugged Live an event we held at

A-U-I-T-P summit years ago in Sweden.

We also have a first time guest from apta, and that's Ms.

Petra Mullet, who is the Vice President of Strategy and International Programs

there, and both of them share some of the challenges, successes and learnings from

2023 for the public transit industry, both here in America and internationally.

I know you're going to love this discussion.

In our program, Transit Unplugged, we've had an amazing year of 2023.

Our television show, Transit Unplugged TV, has grown dramatically in its

cinematic and content quality.

If you go back and look at some of the first episodes and look

at them now, you'll see the difference what I'm talking about.

A lot of that is due to our video director and editor, Jaime Cuadra, who just does

tremendous award winning work and we basically, we visit a new city every

month around the world and we delve into their public transportation system.

We go behind the scenes with their leaders.

We ride the service with them and they talk to us about their

challenges and they show them to us.

The construction projects, their operations control centers, you know,

inside the vehicles, the hydrogen, the battery electric, how the

charging works, all the fun stuff.

And, speaking of fun, we take our viewers the food and

culture scene of those cities.

And those are the things that public mobility enables

residents and visitors to enjoy.

And I think it's working because our viewership has grown

exponentially over the last year.

Over a 500 percent increase in viewership now in our second year on our

YouTube channel, Transit Unplugged TV.

Plus, we're now distributed through a brand new television network, the

Transportation Channel, and we've entered into social media in a big way.

We now are distributing interesting clips from the program via YouTube

Shorts and Instagram Reels.

I encourage you to follow us on both platforms to see these

and let us know what you think.

And our audio podcast is growing too.

Now in this new year of 2024, we're focusing on not just CEOs discussing

topics affecting our industry, but also a look at their career journeys a little

bit more than we've done in the past.

How they made and make decisions.

All this is so that those in the public transportation industry who

want to learn from them as they move up the ladder of success can do so.

Plus, the companies that support the industry will learn from these discussions

about where the public transit agencies are going, their plans for the future.

All this as we are now in our seventh year of Modaxo's thought

leadership vehicle, Transit Unplugged.

We have our podcast, our TV show, live events, our weekly newsletter,

and now in a big way on social media.

Thank you for being a partner with us as we continue to grow.

Now let's join our discussion with Paul Skoutelas and Petra Mollett of APTA,

taking a look at the hot trends from 2023 and what we see coming in 2024.

Great to have Paul Skoutelas and Petra Mollett with us today.

They work for the American Public Transportation Association or APTA, which

is America's large national association.

And this is our year end review show.

And so, uh, I thought who better to talk about the year end review than

the head of our national association here in America and Petra will

give us the international view.

Uh, Paul, thank you for being on the show once again.

You're a multi time guest now.

Always happy to be part of it, Paul.

You do a great job and it's fun to have a conversation with you from time to time.

Absolutely.

Uh, and Petra I know that you and I will be talking in just a minute about some of

the big international trips that you guys did this year and the learnings from them.

Yes, indeed.

Looking forward to it, Paul.

So, uh, Paul, let's kick it off with you.

Um, I guess first off, why don't you tell us a little bit

about APTA, your organization?

Yeah, Paul, I always like to refer to APTA as

really a public private partnership.

Our membership is comprised of organizations, both public sector, meaning

the transportation transit agencies across the country and in Canada, so we

truly are international, and in fact, the private sector, all the businesses, car

manufacturers, bus and rail, equipment suppliers, engineering companies,

universities, trade associations at the state level, they comprise our

membership, so truly is public private.

We represent over 1, 600 member organizations, and they're comprised

of some 450, 000 employees directly working in public transit, and support

several million private sector jobs.

So it's about an 85 billion dollar industry.

Very significant, very significant in terms of its impact, not only

on mobility, but our economy.

And you guys have a lot of heft, I guess I would say.

I know that, um, when APTA puts their shoulder behind the wheel, so

to speak, on a hot topic, you get action on Capitol Hill and elsewhere.

Well, I think that is true.

You know, we have a strong, uh, membership base with, with keen interest to make

our industry move forward, and so we, I think, do an excellent job of bringing

the voices together, both public and private, to make sure that when we go

to the Hill, uh, they can count on good, solid information that they can base

their decision making on, and to make the case, and to make the case is twofold, at

least, and that is, the public perspective of bringing resources to communities

to invest in public transit, and then the private sector, which is really the

job creator, creating the opportunities to innovate, uh, to provide services

that I think take us to another level.

And I think that's very powerful on the Hill to hear both the public

and the private sector messages.

of the things I think is great about you, Paul,

as the CEO is your background.

You worked in both the public and private sector, CEOs of transit agencies, but

also, you know, the private background.

Well, I feel very privileged about that, Paul.

You know, this is a great industry.

You've been in it many, many years, so many of us have, and we've grown

to have an appreciation for it.

And I think certainly my time in both sectors, public and private,

I think gives me a perspective of understanding the issues.

And bringing those in the conversations that we have on a

day to day basis with our members.

Yeah, well, from my perspective, I think you are doing and

have done a great job as a leader of our national association and I'm so honored

to, uh, you know, to be your friend and to work together for the same cause.

That's something that's great about our industry is, Unlike maybe some

industry associations, like an airline industry association, whatever,

where they're all competitors.

We don't have that in public transportation.

We're actually all here to help each other.

And that's why you're on the show today, because you're going to

share some of the best practices and things and solutions that we've seen.

I think you put your finger on it.

There's a great camaraderie and a great sharing of information.

Certainly, you'd have to say amongst the private sector

members, there's some competition.

Yeah, yeah.

But even with that, people are very open, very candid, willing to work

together, not afraid to share stories about what may work, what may not.

And I think that's certainly true of the public sector.

Uh, it is a great industry.

Those of us who've had the privilege of kind of growing up in the

industry, developing our careers.

There are a lot of rewards there of just knowing you're doing meaningful

work and you're doing it with a group of individuals and professionals

who are striving for some of the same goals that you're working on.

So it's a great reward.

Let's dive right in then.

So, um, Paul, give us some of the trends from this last year.

What are some of the challenges we faced and solutions?

Well, Paul, overall, I would say we as an

industry and as an association have had a very, very good year.

You know, our work doesn't come without its challenges, right?

Every business, every organization, public or private, is going to be challenged.

And year to year, that may change.

Certainly, we have our challenges, but if you look at the vital statistics,

We have, uh, really climbed out of this, uh, this pandemic, not

entirely, but making great progress.

If you compare where our ridership is nationally, uh, to

a year ago, we're up about 20%.

So we're now hovering around around 75 to 80% at a national

level, uh, as compared to 2019.

That's not where we ultimately want to be.

But our agencies are demonstrating resilience.

Uh, they're, they're really innovating with their services, their approaches,

uh, the fare policies that they're implementing, luring riders back, but

I would see, I say also new riders, uh, that haven't experienced the system.

What we've seen in the last number of months is The power of other sources of

entertainment, of leisure activities.

You mentioned you were just in Vegas.

You know, what we saw is what, uh, the Taylor Swift factor bringing thousands

upon thousands of riders to transit.

Many of whom have never experienced public transportation.

Time person of the year.

And largely, I think because of what she did for transit.

Absolutely.

So it's beginning to change the mindset.

Yes, it's the commute to work without question, but it's not just that.

It's the leisurely ride.

It's the recreational ride.

It's the educational ride.

And I think transit is beginning to really accept that as one

of their great opportunities.

So we're seeing ridership continue to grow.

Again, it's not inching forward as much and fast as we would

like, but it's happening.

And what I'm very pleased about is that the agencies have rolled up their sleeves.

Both public and private members that are supporting the industry,

looking for ways to be more creative.

And I think that's really important.

We've got to adapt to a different environment than what we've had.

So that's a very strong positive.

We continue, the agencies continue to advance climate initiatives, zeroing, the

transition to zero emission bus fleets.

That does not come without some of its pains, as you well know, and

talking to our members, uh, still issues of the technology that are

being refined and improved upon.

Uh, we've had some challenges in the last number of months with two of

our, uh, bus OEMs, uh, that have, uh, really expressed and have now

demonstrated some difficulties.

First, NovaBus exiting the U.

S.

production of transit buses.

Uh, that is a hit.

Uh, secondly, Proterra, the only 100 percent maker of buses by

electric vehicle battery propulsion.

So we have issues like that that we've got to work through and we are addressing

those, but I think those are all positive signs of progress that don't come

again without some sacrifice, without some pain, but the progress is there.

I am most encouraged as we look at the environment that we've been operating

in, which in itself has been challenging, high inflation, supply chain issues,

workforce issues that we all know about that affect both public and private

sector, agencies continue to advance their capital programs nearly every day,

a new story about a transit line, a rail extension, a new operating facility.

I was just in Akron, Ohio.

10 days ago to dedicate the groundbreaking of a new maintenance

and operations base at Akron Metro.

Uh, they're very excited about that because they know that will translate

into improved practices, improved services ultimately to their public.

And we're seeing this all over the country.

And then of course we have an administration.

That continues to be advocates and and announce new grant

awards virtually every week.

We've had just two major announcements that have come forward with new

high speed rail monies, both for the system that will connect.

Los Angeles, the Los Angeles area to, uh, Las Vegas, high speed rail.

Yeah, my boys at Brightline.

Yes, yes, indeed.

The second venture for them, right, in addition to their Florida venture.

And, of course, California high speed rail, which, uh, continues to generate

additional momentum to move forward.

These are all positives that really talk about the importance of the industry.

Uh, I think Americans want more public transportation.

Every poll that we've, we've ever done continues to reinforce that notion.

So we've got a lot of momentum, uh, that is built up.

I think that will continue in 2024.

Again, we've got to be, um, practical about this, not without challenges.

That that's the nature of it.

That's why we, all of us do what we do to help address some of these

issues and work through them, uh, for, for the betterment for all.

So that will continue.

And it seems like, uh, kind of last question on this round.

It seems like some agencies are figuring out solutions to the fiscal cliff.

Uh, you've got New York City looking at congestion charging.

You've got Chicago coming to kind of a financial agreement,

increasing their budget.

Friends like, uh, Randy Clarke and WMATA are working with local

government agencies to kind of, um, I don't know what I'd call it.

Ramp up or amp up are positioning in society.

So the transit isn't seen as an also ran but is seen as an essential service.

Kind of like, you know, schools and parks and other things that governments

subsidize regularly without any question.

Yeah.

Well, you know, what's interesting is, and those of us who have a long term

perspective of this industry, you're, you're one of those as well, always

know that, look, transit has never had a free ride in terms of it's budgets,

it's budget struggles, that from time to time, you've got to make tough decisions,

you've got to modify your service, your fares, you have to adapt, and we've

never had the the privilege of being able to say funds are unlimited, right?

That's just not the way transit has been budgeted and financed over the years.

This fiscal cliff is an interesting term.

It really has just entered our lexicon in the last couple of years.

And certainly it's very descriptive of the situation.

But it's not different than what we've, we've, we've met

those challenges in years past.

And yes, you've hit upon some of those.

New York has a solution now in terms of providing some funding.

California at the state level has created some additional runway for

additional funding, which is going to give the agencies more time to adapt.

Chicago at the state level is working through some proposals that will

raise more monies and also make some changes perhaps in their structure.

And so I would expect that will continue.

WMATA, of course, we're here in our own home here in Washington, D.

C.

has a huge budget deficit that they're dealing with, and

they've got a complex governance.

They're looking for the jurisdictions there, the three states, so to speak,

to come to the table and address that, you know, I believe those will be worked

out because at the end, people recognize how important public transportation

is, what it means to people's lives.

We don't want to leave people behind.

Public transit, as we all agree, creates mobility and opportunity for

people to live their lives, and I think that we will find ways at the

local level, uh, whether it's here in Washington, whether it's Chicago,

elsewhere, uh, to get to a good place.

Again, doesn't come easy, doesn't come out with a lot of anxiety, uh, but

I'm confident that that will happen.

And our agencies will continue to make the investments.

The capital side continues to, to roar, uh, with these new

investments that are being made.

Agencies are having to adapt there as well.

You know, those dollars perhaps don't go quite as far because of inflation, some of

the other things, but they're resequencing their, their investment levels.

Figuring out how best to do these projects.

And again, the innovation and the resilience of our industry

is really noteworthy and that will certainly continue.

Paul, we're going to come back to you for a quick look into

2024 after we ask Petra about some of the learnings and the trips that APTA

sponsored this year internationally.

Yes, thank you very much, Paul.

So we did two key international study missions this year, which

really is a great opportunity for us to have our finger on the pulse

and really understand what are some best practices around the world.

That are transferable to North America.

We had a chance to take about 30, uh, senior executives from both the public

and private sector as well as, uh, our Administrator Fernandez from the FTA and

some of her key staff, uh, through Spain.

We spent time in Madrid, Valencia, and Barcelona in June and then.

We were able to do another study mission this year, very fortunate

to be able to do that with 35 members, both public and private

sector to Australia and New Zealand.

We spent time in Auckland, Melbourne, Brisbane, and Sydney.

And all of those trips are really focused on how do you build

a world class transit system?

What is needed?

And really to see what is possible.

And, you know, there's so much that.

We could talk about in terms of what we learned and I'm sure Paul, Paul

would have a lot to has a lot to say here as well, of course, but really, I

just wanted to mention 3, 3 elements.

Perhaps 1 is governance structures.

I think that we really saw.

some government structures, governance structures that really allowed us,

allows for that seamless connectivity between modes and brings together

land use planning and transportation.

So, in Madrid, for example, they have the regional consortium for public

transportation, and that brings together all of their operators and really

focuses on fare modal technological and administrative, integration.

So, so they, they really do have that seamless connectivity and deliver on that.

Um, and then, for example, uh, Victoria, the state of Victoria

in Australia, where Melbourne is located, where they've created the

Department of Transport and Planning.

So again, bringing together all the modes from a policy perspective, as well as a

planning function, but also tying that with the land use management and planning.

And I think the 2nd element is, is just what happens when you see both

political commitment as well as a public understanding of the symbiotic

relationship between the vibrancy of cities and their economic competitiveness

and a robust public transportation system.

And I think wherever we went, whatever, whatever city we were in, we saw,

a culture and a lifestyle choice, uh, with public transportation at

heart and, and, and cities that were 24 hours had have, um, have all the

services at hand in urban areas, retail jobs, cultural services, et cetera.

And, uh, and public transportation being used all day and all night.

And, and really, a, a delivery system focused on ensuring that

there is that constant access to where people need to go.

And that understanding that, people come to cities and live

in cities because there is a very good public transportation system.

And I think the 3rd, uh, 1, which we are still very much unpacking,

and which is so important to us now, is we are focused on this topic is

efficient and effective project delivery and we really saw some excellent

models around the world this year.

Where they really are focused on, on being outcome oriented, um, and putting in

place standardized procedures, the right, uh, organizational culture, to ensure

projects are built well and effectively.

You know, in, in Madrid, for example, where they built 50 miles of, of

Metro and 80 stations in four years.

I mean, that, that's incredible.

and, uh, you know, we were just in Sydney where, uh, they're building,

you know, they're building light rail six years from start to finish,

uh, 11 miles of track, but, but that includes all the project review.

That's from the start of the project, project review and

approval processes to operations.

And, uh, just, really understanding what it, how they have really done

a deep dive on what it takes to, to deliver those projects and, and,

and deliver them in the right way.

are great, really good learnings, uh, Petra.

Thank you for sharing those with us.

I know that APTA did a, um, a summary call and, uh, like a, a program, a webinar

where they presented all these findings.

So it's great that you're giving that information kind of back to the industry.

Not everyone's able to go, but they can still get the learnings from it.

Indeed.

Yeah, that's great.

So Paul, let's take a quick look into 2024.

As I look into this new year, I've got a new book coming out called The

New Future of Public Transportation with contributions from 30 of the

world's leading transit experts.

Thank you for contributing to my last book, The First Future

of Public Transportation.

But what I see, and I'm interested in your take on this and anything else, is

the emergence of hydrogen powered buses as a new technology that's up and coming.

Secondly, would be new funding mechanisms such as road charging.

As we get more and more electric vehicles on the road, there's less

and less gas tax available for these transportation trust funds.

And so states like Maryland, where I'm at, and other states are looking

at that as also, I understand a federal study will soon be.

And then the third big trend I see is the continuation of the

importance of public transportation and cleaning the environment.

And I see that as being a driver of what we do, kind of getting

the political willpower behind us.

As a result of that, what are your thoughts on those and anything

else that you see coming in 2024?

Yeah, no, Paul, you've hit on some very important issues here

that I think will be front and center.

Let's, let's deal with one that everybody is always concerned about.

It's the funding piece, right?

And so we're heading into a time period where we've got to a very

different composition in Congress.

Uh, and so we know there may be some headwinds there in terms of continuing

to advance all of our initiatives.

We are now into our third year of the Infrastructure and Investment and

Jobs Act and that reauthorization.

our first priority for the coming year is to protect that investment to make

sure that the appropriations match.

Uh, the authorized levels, and that will not be an easy feat at

all, but, but that's at the top of our list, and it's not too early.

We'll begin thinking early in the year of 2024 about reauthorization.

You know, what comes next?

And, and you just hit on it.

We know that the gas tax revenues now are on decline.

Uh, there's no way that they're going to be able to be of sufficient

magnitude to fund transportation.

roads and public transit.

So we need some new thinking there, new experimentation, new

identification of revenue sources and streams that will serve that need.

It is happening at the state levels.

Uh, there's a lot of experimentation that's going to go forward in

terms of, uh, distance based, uh, you know, mileage, uh, based, uh,

uh, tolls and, and, and the like.

So, yeah.

So there's some new areas there that have to be explored if we're

really going to identify new funding for the future and we'll be

engaged in that in this coming year.

The other is to address the issue that we touched on a few moments

ago, and that is some of the stress that our bus OEMs are facing.

And so we have established a bus manufacturing task force.

It is chaired by Dorval Carter.

from Chicago, Chicago CTA, and Rich Davey, who is the president of New York

City Transit, so they've lent both their expertise and quite frankly their gravitas

to this issue, to give it the importance that it deserves, and we expect we'll

be coming out very shortly and into 2024 with recommendations about really changing

the procurement model that the industry has followed for many, many years.

It needs to be, uh, recognizing These impacts, financial

impacts on the private sector.

And we need more of a partnership there so that we can keep this industry healthy.

You know, we all have our individual efforts, both initiatives and

priorities, public and private.

But at the end, you know, we need a healthy industry and that

healthy industry has to account for both sectors of our industry.

And so I think there's a willingness and a desire to make sure that

we We're doing the right kinds of things to, to make that happen.

I expect our trends in terms of, um, our association to continue.

We've had, uh, we're closing out on this one of the strongest attendance

years that we've had, uh, ever at APTA, uh, record attendance levels

at virtually every conference.

I think that will continue in 24.

In some measure, that reflects the health of the industry.

The vitalness of the industry.

So we'll continue to nurture that and to work with it.

But, you know, the day to day stuff is still going to be there.

How we get bus service and rail service out there timely, operating well.

We're going to need to come to answers as how best we can deal

with the issues of public safety.

Which, again, we cannot ignore.

Every organization and agency is facing those.

We've got to work, I think, more collaboratively with our local leaders,

mayors, city councils, local social groups to address these issues, because they go

far beyond transit's ability to solve.

And so we need to be able to do that.

But those are the things, I think, that are key in the agenda

that I see us expending more energy and time and effort on.

Petra do you have anything you'd like to add from

the international perspective?

I think something that, uh, two, two areas maybe that we'll

continue to see major project on, uh, pro progress on is, um, the continued

commitment to decarbonizing the sector.

Um, and, uh, we, you know, we're, we're seeing large scale

transitions, certainly to, uh, zero emissions buses around the world.

Uh, Santiago, Chile, which already has the largest bus, uh, electric

bus depot outside of China.

Uh.

which has brought in 900 more buses this year to to have 30 percent of their fleet.

Now, almost 2000 buses already electric.

We saw the same in Australia, New Zealand, a major commitment to a

transition to electric and hydrogen.

Uh, as well, and some interesting examples as well, which I think we'll

see more of in Barcelona, for example, where they're looking at using their,

uh, their energy, the recovered energy from their metro system and using that

to supply electricity to their buses.

So, I think that's one area where we'll continue to see a lot of progress.

And the second is just, I think this will also be the year where we stop.

Uh, internationally, at least comparing ourselves in terms of ridership, uh,

pre to pre pandemic levels and really focus, uh, more on, uh, having a true

understanding, um, uh, from a data perspective on, on new mobility trends

and meeting those new mobility trends, but also perhaps really focusing less

on ridership levels and more on how we build inclusive, equitable, and accessible

transit systems and deliver on that.

That's great.

Paul, if I may, you, you touched on something that I

didn't address and that is hydrogen as, as a fuel for the future.

And there's no doubt that so many of our agencies now are stepping up, uh,

experimenting with hydrogen, uh, and hydrogen fuel, uh, for propulsion in

addition to the electric battery buses.

I think it's a very healthy thing.

The industry, the industry, again, is looking for ways.

To be innovative, uh, to be cutting edge, uh, to learn, to experiment.

So we're going to see more of that continuing.

Uh, and I think the jury's still out in terms of what that

mix might be for the future.

What does the future bus fleet look like?

How much of it is electric battery base versus hydrogen?

I think we picked up some interesting tidbits along the way from our

international visits in terms of where they are, but you know, we got to make

sure that it fits for the U S market.

Uh, so that'll be an interesting, I think, uh, focus for the next year coming up.

That's excellent.

Well, thank you both for sharing your time with us today.

Paul, I consider you a five star general in our army as we, uh, as

we advance and Transit Unplugged is happy to be part of the Air Force.

Let me tell you, Paul, thank you for what you do.

I, you know, it's really remarkable.

I, I wish I had more time to kind of delve into some of the detail here, but

you're all over the place covering what's happening in the industry, doing it so,

so easily and in a fun fashion for people.

So keep up the great work.

Uh, it's a great way to educate us all in terms of things that are happening,

uh, that we should take note of, not only in the US but across, across the globe.

So keep up the energy and stamina to do all that my friend.

Doing great.

Thank you.

We, uh, I'm happy to be a partner with APTA and with UITP and all

the groups around the world.

You know, all of us are transit evangelists and we're showing the

value of public transportation, you know, overall societal.

So thank you for the work you're doing and Petra and TJ and all the team there.

Thank you, Paul.

Thank you, Paul.

Hi, this is Tris Hussey editor of the Transit unplugged podcast.

And thank you for listening to the final Transit Unplugged episode of

2023 and a special thank you to our guests, Paul Skoutelas and Petra Mollet.

Now coming up next week on Transit Unplugged next year.

We have Congressman Earl Blumenauer.

Talking with Paul about his lifelong support in transit

and his career in politics.

But we do have one more special thing for you before we wrap up the year completely.

We've got a special episode.

By our friends at the overhead wire and talking headways podcast.

Jeff Wood is talking with Dr.

Karel Martens about building more sustainable and accessible cities.

It's really interesting episode about how we approach building our cities.

Listen for that episode to come out December the 29th.

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So until next week and next year.

Ride safe and ride happy.