Nathan Wood (00:00)

Most young cricketers will experience setbacks. They'll lose form, they'll lose confidence, they'll miss out on selection, they'll doubt themselves. But the question isn't whether those setbacks will happen, the question is how they respond when they do. In today's episode, we're exploring the psychology of long term player development. We'll be discussing confidence, resilience,

motivation, identity, and why some young players continue to grow through adversity while others become stuck. So if you're a player, a parent or a coach, this episode's for you. Welcome to the Cricket Mind Podcast.

speaker-0 (01:03)

So Briony is away this week, but we do have a terrific guest, Faisal Shahid, who is climbing the coaching ladder at quite some pace. And he's got a real passion for the psychology of player development. As a player himself, he came through the Worcestershire pathway, represented England at under 17 level. He spent two years on the MCC

young cricketers program and then he earned a professional contract and since moving into coaching he's worked across every single age group from under 10s all the way through to senior cricket and in the space of just a few years at Warwickshire County Cricket Club he's progressed rapidly from being a sessional coach to a high performance coach then he became head of high performance and today he's the academy manager

Warwickshire women — maybe England will be the next rung on the ladder Faisal welcome to the pod great to see you

speaker-1 (02:10)

Thanks, Woody. Thanks for the introduction. think the last time I was on one of these, and John were grilling me about my coaching philosophy for the level four. that was bit of a nice introduction. then, so thank you.

speaker-0 (02:21)

Well, yes, we were a bit nasty in those days, weren't we? We didn't mean to be, but sometimes we kind of went overboard on the questioning. But how's life been since completing that programme at level four?

speaker-1 (02:33)

It's been great. It's been very fast like you kind of alluded to there, but really great. Some great experiences and some great moments and yeah, the journey has been lovely.

speaker-0 (02:41)

Brilliant. So you've worked with a broad range of players from junior level right through to senior level. When you think about long-term development, what does it actually look like to you and what do people in your experience misunderstand about it?

speaker-1 (03:04)

Um, I think for me, Woody, like the experiences that I've had and seen a pathway from that kind of tens all the way up to that, that professional setup, the biggest thing is the ability to keep getting better and the discipline to be able to keep doing the things that you need to be doing to keep getting better. Um, so one of the things, um, I always kind of say to people is that just cause you were good at under 13s doesn't mean you're to be good at under 14s. Doesn't mean you're to be good at under 15s and the opposite is true as well.

just because you wasn't the best player at 14 doesn't mean you're to be the best player at 15. So I think the short answer for me is the ability to keep getting better, keep a growth mindset and that for me is long-term development. You know, I have to look at things like confidence, right? And for me, confidence is being able to survive a bad day more than it is about judging yourself on outcomes. And I think that for me in essence is long-term development, right? It's helping our players.

⁓ your son, your daughter being able to survive those bad days and if you can help them do that you're going to get this real growth mindset in your players to be able to keep going and keep getting better. So I think that for me is long-term development really.

speaker-0 (04:13)

Yeah. So, I mean, this is a quite difficult question ⁓ to answer, I guess, but what does success look like for a 12 year old compared to a 17 year old? How would you kind of answer that?

speaker-1 (04:30)

For me, it's the same thing. And the reason why I say it's the same thing. I've seen, I've seen pros working on things that I've seen 111s working. I'll be really fortunate in my job to be in a pro environment one day and then down to 111s there and the, and the feelings and the thoughts are all the same, right? And ultimately all those players want to do is they want to do well, which is what success is for them. And whilst often looks like, did I score runs? Did I take wickets? ⁓ did I help my team win? I mean, all those things are, ⁓ things that are out of their control often, but.

For me, success on both those age groups is to say, am i better than what I was yesterday? Was I better than last game? Was I better than last week? And again, like I said, it's quite simplified, but for me, that is ultimately what success needs to look like at each step.

speaker-0 (05:15)

Do you think that...

Too many young players become obsessed with their kind of short-term outcomes and their immediate performances on the pitch. Do you see that and why do you think it is if you do see it?

speaker-1 (05:34)

100 % and I think that's the biggest barrier to long-term development and growth as well, right? So you tie your successes to outcomes out of your control, right? And they're great, you know, scoring runs does give you confidence and getting selected does give you confidence. But the moment those things are taken away, everything crumbles because you built on that. And the reason why I think is probably a little bit the world that we live in, a society where we want to reattach ourselves to these outcomes and by somebody telling us we're good.

It makes us feel good, right? And our identity then is tied to how we play our cricket. And it's that classy thing around, we've had a bad day, we feel like a bad person or if you've had a great day, you know, we feel like a great person kind of thing. it's like understanding that they're two separate things, right? It doesn't make you any different. I remember John listening to his call and who you are as a person and your character, right? Should not be affected by what you do. But I think a lot of comes back to environment and culture and the way things are set up within

certain teams that you may play in and what's valued in those environments I think is really important because you don't know what you don't know, right? And if you're in an environment or a team where you're seeing players get runs and go forward, you're saying players take wickets and go forward ⁓ with that, with everything else being missed, then you probably start to buy into that little bit and you start to judge yourself on wanting to get forward based off those things, if that makes sense.

speaker-0 (06:55)

So what would you recommend that players kind of should be measuring and valuing instead of just, you know, stats and performance levels?

speaker-1 (07:06)

Again, those are important, they're byproducts of things that you should value. For me, it's about knowing where you are as a player and getting a real understanding of that. you know, we look at a holistic view. If you look at in our environment around your technical, your tactical, mental, your physical, your lifestyle stuff. And for me, it's about really knowing where you are at with those things. Cause if you don't know where you are, you don't quite know where you're going, right? So being able to see exactly where you are and then being able to move. I think often I see this in

talk to coaches about this all the time as well is that if we're here we try to get to here very quickly and there's stages that go on, there's steps and it's understanding what's the next step for me, right that steps gonna look different for you too as to somebody else so you your step might be that you know I'm currently a number nine in my team and I want to get to number eight, I want to get to number seven and then being able to recognize what it takes, what is that step from a technical point of view, what does it look like, is it a technical thing from a tactical point of view.

you know, how are you playing the game in certain moments that's going to allow you to then go up the order of the coach to see it. And after like, say for a player, it's finding your coach and finding a good mentor to be able to see those things. And even as an exercise yourself, right, try and try, try write it down, like where am I at technically, where am I at tactically, mental, what are my thoughts and processes within those moments? And you start to then build a pattern of where you're at.

speaker-0 (08:27)

So looking back at your own journey, including your playing journey, and now as a coach, what do you wish that you'd kind of understood earlier about development?

speaker-1 (08:42)

I think the big, I see myself as as a failed cricketer to be honest with you, know, I had a year contract and it got released and that stayed with me for a long, long time until I got into coaching and then you get into the pro environment. And I think Woody I've been thinking on that question for a long time to be honest with you. And for me, I think the biggest thing was I viewed setback as evidence that I'm not good enough. Right.

And I think that was bigger. If I viewed those setbacks as opportunities to learn and grow and move forward and you know, people often hear the term of like you learn from failure. And for me, I never knew what that meant. Right. Till I got into the coaching environment and I saw others and I saw players and I saw what they go through. But yeah, I think that was the biggest thing. I think I viewed setbacks or just as evidence that I'm not ready for this and I'm not good enough. And I wish I'd seen those setbacks as real moments to go, okay, what do I need to do to get better?

speaker-0 (09:36)

How long did it take for you to accept not being a pro? And did you understand fully the reasons why that journey came to an end?

speaker-1 (09:50)

It took me, it took me a long time. would say it took me, I've probably exercised that demon when I got into my current job and into the pro environment and you kind of sit in a first team dressing room and you think actually it was the things that I loved about cricket wasn't the actual things that I thought I loved, if that makes sense. So, you know, I wanted to be a pro because I thought it was the right thing because everyone told me I was good. I was a cricketer, right? But the things that I loved about cricket was that changing room environment, the people in that environment

I'm going to embarrass you a little bit here, Woody, if I'm honest with you. And I would say there was a moment when we were on our level four course and you asked me this similar question around why you want to do the level four. And I said, I want to work in a high performance environment. And you told me that why can't you create that high performance environment exactly where you're at? And that always stuck with me, right? And we often think as people of players, like if I get to that place, that's where I want to be. But you can create that place exactly where you are. And that's the exact philosophy that I tip.

when I coached my 11s or when I coached the 13s or the 15s and ultimately you do those things and you do those right processes, create that environment. You are going to move forward or you are going to get into better places eventually or that place might become the place that gives you the most happiness and sanity as well.

speaker-0 (11:03)

didn't think anybody listened to me, mate. So that's nice to hear. Yeah. What was the thinking behind that? What I said there? think the way that I see it is that a lot of people associate world-class coaching with working with world-class players. And actually I've seen a lot of really average coaching that is being in the presence of world-class players, but I've also seen world-class coaching happen with

10 and 11 and 12 year olds, so they're not one of the same. So I think coaches, if they kind of bear that in mind, it does kind of, it is quite useful for them. It is tricky, isn't it? Finishing a pro career, I talk about coaching mentality and playing mentality, and often the two mentalities offer different things, and what makes you a top player doesn't necessarily make you a-

a top coach and so sometimes it does take a bit of time, doesn't it, to get over, to get out of that playing mentality and into a coaching mentality. I can think of plenty of players who finished 20, 30, 40 years ago and still aren't over it. So it does have a lot of impact on a lot of people. Now, confidence is something every cricketer talks about and wants.

You know, for you, what are the characteristics of a player who has got genuine confidence, would you say?

speaker-1 (12:37)

For me, a player who knows themselves, and this is a lot harder for younger players, right? I think ultimately as a coach, you're trying to help players understand themselves. You try to help players understand their game. You try to help players understand the game as well of cricket, and then you try to help them understand how they are under pressure. And for me, like I said, those are the four things that kind of my framework in my head that I work on in terms of confidence. And I think if you can keep working on those things and understanding those four elements.

you'll start to build good confidence in players. again, like I said at the top of pod was that for me, the most confident players survive those bad days, you know, and it's like you could walk into a changing room and you wouldn't know whether that player's got a duck or a hundred, right? Or you wouldn't know whether they've had a good day or a bad day based off the results because they understand that that was just one game or they understand that this is just a little phase that they're going through and they're to try everything to try and get through it. ⁓

And you hear that in the language, the way they speak as well about it. And that's for me, ultimately, what we're trying to get through as coaches, as parents. We're trying help those players understand themselves better. We're not trying to be their critic. We're trying to be their coach, their support act in a way and helping them kind of navigate through that.

speaker-0 (13:55)

Have you got any examples of players that you've worked with who have had a really difficult period but you've done some work specifically on rebuilding their confidence after a difficult period? You don't need to mention names but are there any examples that spring to mind there?

speaker-1 (14:15)

⁓ I think, ⁓ probably one of the, one of the examples, ⁓ that I've got is we had a player who's, I'm not going mention anybody's professional and that came to us quite early and was on the academy and was really struggling with the short ball. was really struggling with the short ball. then I remember meeting him and we went through like three or four weeks, what do you only go through all the drills as a coach and you get the session plan out you do the underarms and you find different ways and just nothing was working. And I remember just sitting him down and

There was one session where he's getting padded up early and I said to him like, take your pads off. Let's go. Let's just go have a sit down. And, and I remember saying to him, like, I'm out of ideas. Like what's going on? And like, just to open up myself because you know, before you don't really want to show you as a coach when you're early in your coaching days, you want to show that you know, and you're competent and all that. I just said, look, I've been four weeks with you now. I don't feel like we're making any progress. Like, can you just talk to me like what's going on? And, and he just really opened up and he said, when I was 12, he goes, I got hit in the jaw with a cricket ball.

And ever since it's had a massive impact on me and I just hate batting. And I swear that moment, he went into the nets that same session, it's going to sound, but he just opened up and all of a sudden, like, right, we had this massive gain and it just, that was a real moment for me to go like, you know, you can see, you can see body language, right. And you can see, you can almost see what people are thinking sometimes, but you don't know the condition of someone's heart, right. And their intention and that opening up and that for me then became a little bit of a framework to

whenever there is a kind of a setback or a loss of confidence with the player, like just sit down and talk to them and get their perspective because we often want to help and rescue, right? And we jump straight in. But if you just allow that time for them to open up, they will

speaker-0 (15:58)

Oh, that's a really great story. And it shows how important, well, how powerful showing a bit of vulnerability, you know, is. It can almost give a reason to the player or the person that you're showing your vulnerability to, to show their vulnerability in it. It's a great example, I think, of getting to understand the player.

And I have this phrase I say all the time, people get bored of it, but you know, before rushing to judgment, you know, before rushing to intervention, seek some understanding. And there you got that understanding, didn't you? And it kind of changed the context and it probably changed your approach and he probably changed a bit. So that's a great example of that mate. Do you think that confidence can sometimes like almost become fragile if it's

purely built on praise alone because a lot of people do think well I'll just give him some praise or I won't kind of give him any negative stuff and that will build up the confidence. Is there a problem with that? Do you think that can be an issue if it's built on praise only?

speaker-1 (17:10)

Definitely. We've got a quote in our academy and we brought it out kind of at the start of the winter, which is treat praise like perfume, smell it, don't drink it. Because it's poison, right? It can be poison. ⁓ And I always say to players, like, I think it's really important that we let players know, young people know what we're thinking as well, all the time. So if you see something good, like say, but I always caveat with that quote or, you know, it's outdated once you've said it.

It doesn't mean like we said at the start, like you've got to keep working and you've got to keep getting better. And I've been really playing around with the word positive and negative, right? And rather like, cause I'm big on self talk and self belief, right? But I think it has to be productive self talk. So, you know, if you're going out to face a 90 miles an hour bowler and just by me saying to you, yeah, I can do this. Even you've never faced it before, right? It's probably pretty dangerous, productive self talk is then, okay, what do I need to do in this moment? I've got to make sure that

You know, I avoid that short ball, I get deep in my crease, right? So you're putting an action plan to that talk, right? And we talk a lot about pumping people's tyres but if you just pump without then giving them an action plan to then carry that forward. It's very dangerous. and just a, just a little example, like we've got, and you see often, right? You see, for me, the real challenge comes when the expectation rises, right? So we've had players that have gotten selected for England. We've had players that come and then you come back and those moments we'll get them to carry drinks, right? Just to keep them grounded.

speaker-0 (18:18)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (18:35)

So they don't become overconfident. So those players that come back have to come back in, they have to bring something back. They're carrying the drinks for that next game just to give that. And then there's players that probably need a bit of picking up, that might need a bit of pumping up and a couple of little white lies about where they're at and who they are in the right way. But yes, that makes sense.

speaker-0 (18:56)

How do those players react when they've been playing for England and they come back and they're carrying the drinks? How do they react to that?

speaker-1 (19:03)

Again, think it's everything's on your environment and the culture that you built, right? And as long as you're strong with those values and you know, like some of big believing you get what you have, like you, get what you emphasize, right? Within an environment we're big on that humility, respect thing ⁓ and I know sometimes they get values, get tarnished a bit as words, but ours are always about behaviours that are linked to those things and then how much are we then just going on about those things? And I think that's one of the behaviours that we link to that humility piece.

to that respect piece,

speaker-0 (19:35)

We have, well, I don't know if we've got a lot, but we've definitely got some parents who listen to this pod — what role do they play in shaping a player's confidence? Because they're going to have a massive impact in some way, aren't they? Because, well, their mum and dad, for one, and they've spent a lot of time with them. So yeah, so what's their role in this?

speaker-1 (19:57)

I think they played the biggest role to be honest with you. think they played because as much as like said, we're academy players that come in four times a week, we see them one percent of their week. So the parents are often they're kind of voice in their ear and I always think as coaches or as parents, you become that inner voice in that young person, don't you? So how you're talking around them, how you're sending your messages is really important. Often parents really want to help and it's that understanding about how you can help. I mean, I've got a great story out there.

but one of my friends who's actually not a coach, he's an accountant and he's got a daughter who, who's into judo and she's only 11, but for a couple of years, like she's great and she's been beating everyone. And the one day she turns up at a training and they put up against this girl that's two years older than her and twice as big as her and she gets absolutely beat down and she comes home and she says to her dad that, know, they put me in with this big girl today and you know, she was bigger than me. She was stronger than me.

She's crying and all the dad said was like, so what are you going to do about it? And he's like, the tears just stopped, right? And she was like, almost taken back and she's like, well, I need to keep training, right? What do you need from me? I need you to take me, I need you to help me with this, this and this. And I thought that moment was so pivotal and always look at things as like, you can have two timelines right there, right? If her parent in that moment says, oh, why are they putting you in with a girl that's bigger than you, stronger than you? I'm going to go down. I'm going to talk to that coach, right?

As most of us would do, I don't know how I react in that situation as well at that moment, My daughter comes home crying. But he's gone, he's given her these tools to go, actually, you know, you know what? I'm going to come back and it's hard. And he goes, don't get me wrong at that moment. I just wanted to pick her up and give her a hug. Because after I said that I did pick her up and I gave her a hug. But for me, after that day, she was so determined to go back and get better. And that's how powerful the role of a parent could be, right?

speaker-0 (21:47)

Great story. And you mentioned it before. He didn't, he or she didn't rush to rescue. ⁓ it's so easy to do that. Isn't it? In those examples. So, ⁓ yeah, terrific stuff. ⁓ now as we know, every player, you know, we'll face a setback at some point like that, that player that you mentioned there. Why does some players seem to grow through adversity whilst others?

struggle to recover from it. You've just kind of given an example there. Anything else that kind of is a factor in this? Do think it's genetic, for example?

speaker-1 (22:29)

Um, we actually playing around with that question a lot in our environment at the moment, Woody And I think, I think it is, I think there are things around genetics. I think you look at someone like people like Dhoni and these guys that play in front of a hundred thousand and they're able to stay stay calm. You know, is there something that's wired different? And we talk about players that are wired different, but I also think your environment plays a massive part. Um, I would say your environment plays the biggest part. could be.

a coach that you've come up with, could be the type of education that you've had, your life experiences that you've had, I think all play a part in how you handle setbacks and adversity. And you know, like to think, and one of our goals of our programme is that players that come through our programme are going to handle adversity, not just in cricket, but in life. And that's something that we're really serious about and that we design our programme around as well.

in terms of how we do that and the language becomes a really important part of that, how we're talking to players, how we are helping them understand themselves, their game. So I think coming back to your question, I don't know why certain players handle it better than others at this moment. I just know that we can influence that. You can change people's habits and you can change their way of seeing things and perspective on things.

speaker-0 (23:48)

Yeah. I mean, I think there must be some genetic component to it that affects, but I think everyone can get better, can't they? At it and at different skills. What has come into my mind is, have you seen, do know much about Alex Honnold, the climber, the free solo climber? doesn't climb. In the big building, he's done some massive cliffs and mountains and he actually

speaker-1 (24:09)

Was he the one that did the big building in?

speaker-0 (24:18)

So we have the amygdala don't we that's kind of in the brain, which is our kind of it senses danger and his is a lot smaller than everybody else's. So he doesn't, he doesn't kind of have that same sense of kind of fear that a lot of people do. you know, there is the sometimes can be a genetic component, but ⁓ interesting. So have there been any kind of specific moments

in your playing career that taught you some valuable lessons for your coaching career when you look back?

speaker-1 (24:57)

⁓ I think the biggest lessons is probably taught me is, ⁓ that thing I said about how I handle setbacks. I always thought like I was that kid in the changing room that was quiet, that was in the corner, that didn't really speak up. ⁓ that was very nervous. ⁓ and I can kind of recognize those traits now in the players that I coach. And I was like, my, my thing, and I pride myself as in helping players when they need it the most, right. I mean, it's hardest not to help them right when they've

they've probably been really bad and they're to come off a program like that's the moment you step in and out. And I always think back to like Woody do you like, what would I want in this moment? Right. What would I have wanted in that moment when I was a player seeing that I would want a coach to come to me and ask me like, how you feeling here? You know, what are your thoughts that you're going through your head? What is it that you're struggling with a little bit like I did with that player, right around, know, what is the fear? My fear was that, you know, I don't feel that I'm good enough to, to, be around these guys. And just by having that conversation, um,

speaker-0 (25:31)

Hmm.

speaker-1 (25:53)

I don't know whether my timeline would have gone a little bit different. don't, I will never know right whether this was, this was my timeline to then come back and help those plays in that, in that, in that same, in that same position. I was, it's going to be a bad example, but I was flicking through, ⁓ I was at radio stations at the day and I came across, a segment and I don't know who the guitarist was, but he's obviously a famous guitarist and he just, he just telling a story about

someone said to him, it was when he first started and he was playing and he thought he was terrible and some guy came to him and said, actually, you're really good at that. And he said that sparked him to believe that he could be do this for a living. And he went on and I don't know who that who that person was, but it just made me think of that example. And there's so many examples out there where I just think just saying the right thing in the right moment could just spark someone's timeline. I completely different. And that's it's so important around how we talk.

to our young players and our sons and daughters in that moment. And the importance of it and sometimes saying nothing is better than saying something. And I am really conscious about how I talk and how we coach as well and those things.

speaker-0 (27:05)

If you coached yourself, so let's say, you know, somehow we could create you now and you as a player now coming through. If you coached yourself, do you think you would have had a longer career as a pro?

speaker-1 (27:26)

I think so, but you you do all the personality profiles now and I'm 40 now and I understand myself way better and I know what makes me tick. I know what motivates me. I know, you know, how to get the best of me. And I think the first, I think it's the first question that we have on all the players IDPs now before we go into cricket batting is like, and it's a great question for parents to ask their children as well, I think is how do you want to be coached? And how do you want me to talk to you on that car journey home? How do you want me to be in the mornings of a game?

Right. You know, do you want a lot of information? Do you me to talk to you about your game? Do you want him to talk to about what you're to do? So for me, that question about how do you want to be coached? know, I'm always someone that if you put trust in me and tell me you can do this, like I'm going to run through a brick wall for you. Um, but if you put pressure on me and try and micromanage me and tell me this is how I you to do it and did every bit of the way, I'm not — I'm going to lose motivation in that. And I think that part is so important. And that again, brings the learning back to the learner, right? What do you need?

speaker-0 (28:23)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (28:25)

Going back to my friends, especially to his daughter, right? Okay. You know, what are you going to do about it? And then what do need from me? And then, and that's the two questions.

speaker-0 (28:33)

So I don't think you answered my question or answer is it just that you would want a longer career if you had coached you as a kid?

speaker-1 (28:42)

I don't know.

speaker-0 (28:45)

It's an impossible question to answer.

speaker-1 (28:48)

It's

impossible to answer because the game is so difficult, There's so many variables. I don't know if I would have been any better at playing the swinging ball if had more confidence on the in-swinger when I was falling over every two minutes.

speaker-0 (29:01)

All right. Here's a question. Here's a question. When you look back at your journey as a cricketer, and this is before you played as a pro as well. So when you're developing, what kind of period in terms of age would you say you as a coach would have had the biggest impact with? So do you think you would have dealt with yourself better as a 12 year old, a 15 year old, a young pro?

Where would you have had most success would you say?

speaker-1 (29:33)

That's great question. think 18 would be for me. And that was those were the two years that I spent with the MCC Young Cricketers, which was a fantastic programme at the time. So I went from through the Worcester pathway and an academy, which up to age group cricket, like everything's quite nice, right? And you're kind of the top player in that age group and it's, you know, you're scoring runs and all that. But as soon as you go into that men's environment, it's completely different. There's a lot more things to handle and it gets tougher. And then suddenly you go from having four coaches around you to suddenly

You're like bottom of the pile again and you have to understand all those other things around what it means to be a professional. you kind of, sign a piece of paper and they're almost expecting you to be a man the next day, right? Whereas, and the other thing was like I said, the lifestyle bits of it where, you know, you're going home and you're to answer to everyone about how you did and moving away from home those two years and going down to London and being in a, where I'm having to kind of figure myself out, figure out who I am as a person, figure out.

speaker-0 (30:12)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (30:30)

how do I learn and how to train and we had a couple of great people there as well. Clive Radley was our kind of lead and he was great at, know, just telling you what you need to do and then letting you get on with it kind of thing. And we just sat on the bowling machines ourselves for five hours and that's something I wouldn't have done. But I think those two years were really important. And if I could go back now, I would have got myself at that kind of 18 point again, just to kind of, and I, just to kind of really.

understand myself quicker and better because by the time I kind of really worked it out, I think it was a little bit late for me. ⁓ But I think if I got it a little bit earlier, that would probably be the place I got in.

speaker-0 (31:09)

Oh, interesting. Something you mentioned earlier, mate, is that you, I think it's a great thing to do actually. You ask your players, how do you want to be coached? There is a difference though between what players want and what players need. So in a very simple example, you might go to a player, you know, what do want to work on today? Well, I want to work on hitting 65 mile an hour, half-volleys through extra cover. Oh, okay. But.

You can't play the short ball and you probably need that. How do you reconcile that then? You you asked a question, how do you want to be coached? But sometimes is there a case where they might give you an answer and you think, well, that might be how you want to be coached, but actually you need something else at this time. How do you reconcile that?

speaker-1 (31:57)

All the time, right? All the time. And again, you've got to show so much patience in that moment. And again, I'm really fortunate in my environment that it's an academy, so we get to see him three, four times a week, right? We get a winter and you've got to leave him with that. And then our job as coaches is to kind of expose that, right? And the stuff around the technicality is like, why is that going to give you? How is that? So the question we use on the technical aspect of what do you want to work on is that, how is this going to help you win more games of cricket?

or influence more games of cricket, right? So hitting half-volleys for an hour is not going to help you influence more games of cricket, right? It's going to make you look really good on a cover drive, but you might get one in 50 balls, right? So that is the question. And you challenge and you check and you challenge because they're a young player people, they don't know how they're like. And the most answers you get, right? And the biggest answer you get is, I just want to be told direct, right? You don't want to be told direct. But I said, okay. So we'll say, okay, okay, that's great. That's great. And then...

The biggest thing is you keep a feedback loop. So this is a live document. It is a, once it's down on a piece of paper, it's done. It's kind of let's review it back in four weeks time. Right. So you said this, how did that work out for you? Well, actually I didn't like it when you told me that I'm not moving my feet to spin or whatever it was. Okay, cool. So should we maybe change that to like, you like being told, but you don't like being told about this thing. And then maybe starting then over a year or two years. we've got IDPs of players that I started with in year one.

And if you look at it in year three, that how do you like to be coach box is completely different. But as a coach, you've got to, you've got to let them, you know, thing around letting them figure it out. And there's a lot of deeper layers to that. It's not a case of you just leave it alone, right? You've got to keep checking in with it. You've got to keep checking it. You've got to keep checking it. You've got to keep challenging it. So you're constantly going on and that's all built off a big relationship, obviously. Right. But you get much better. It takes more time.

And it's a little bit more and we are always racing against time the way our pathways are set up, right? But it's rewarding and you're going to see a way bigger impact to a person that gets to where they want to get to in their way. And they're a lot more likely to stick with it as well, rather than showing that resentment and say, well, you told me to do this and you told me to be like this.

speaker-0 (34:09)

Let's talk a little bit about kind of motivation and enjoyment because one thing we hear a lot of at Cricket Mind is that young players can sometimes lose their love for the game. Why do you think that happens?

speaker-1 (34:26)

It comes back to what you're judging your success on, right? And if you're judging your success on outcomes, they fluctuate. And then if you're constantly, those outcomes aren't good and it's constantly knocking your confidence, your motivation is naturally going to go. And for me, the saddest thing is watching players quit at 13, watching players quit at 14 because they didn't get a selection. And I think, I think that's crazy. But then again, it comes back to that whole picture around their self-talk and the people around them and

how they're being talked to, right? And for me, it's about the stamina of motivation. And again, like I said to players, right, just because you were good last year doesn't mean you'd be good next year and because you wasn't bad last year, based on that, if you can keep, you can find your process. So in terms of framework, just to narrow it down, I like to work in three things with players, right? So what is your vision, right? What's your goal? And if they say, look, I want to become, you know, they have a massive goal, I to play for England or I want to play in the under 14s I want to get selected for the under 17s, right? That's great.

That's great, right? Let's put that on a shelf. What's your process to that? Okay, what's your process? And now once you figure out your process and you do that, so that is I've got to make sure that my consistency of my line of length for this level is at this point or you know, my 2k time for this level. If that's the required amount of the level that you're trying to get to the next level. Okay, we're going to commit wholeheartedly to those and we're going to enjoy that process and we're going to hit those.

regardless of the outcome and normally the byproduct is the outcome, right? And if it's not actually, I've had this great time because I'm a better person, I'm better in what I was doing. And that's where the real enjoyment comes from. And then it's the discipline to be able to stick to those things. You know, be able to stick to that. And I always find it weird in cricket, right? Like in education, you know, we, we go to school five days a week, right? We go nine months and then we do our GCSE's five years later and in cricket we expect to do one hour a week of cricket training. And then we wonder why we didn't get into this thing, right? Well, I trained one hour.

speaker-0 (36:01)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (36:18)

It's that and thought often we understand what it takes. ⁓ What it takes. Another thing I say to a lot of parents and this is probably a little bit higher up the pathway is that you don't actually have a lot of choice, right? It takes what it takes. There's certain criteria that you have to meet to be able to get into that level, right? There's a certain level of fitness you have to be at, right? There's certain bits in your games that we can work on and you'll start to adapt. But there are certain things that you don't actually have a choice. They're to take, they're going to take hard work. It's going to take discipline. It's going to take resilience. ⁓ You know, all those characteristics.

I think that's the thing that people think they want it. They think they want it but is it what you when you get it you think actually is this what I was this what I actually wanted. I'm not sure if I got a bit round about answering the question there but so.

speaker-0 (36:51)

Yeah.

So have you got any advice for players how they can balance that ambition? you you just alluded to it there that you, it takes a lot, doesn't it? And actually a lot of working towards being a pro and then becoming a pro is repetitive stuff, isn't it? It's not glamorous. It's, it's a lot of hard work, you know, working on the same things a lot of the time. So have you got any advice for how players can balance their ambition?

with still maintaining their enjoyment because sometimes the ambition bit can actually detract from the why they started playing in the first place. How do you marry, how do you keep them two connected?

speaker-1 (37:47)

So one of the things I said, because there's the line around, know, we always say like not everyone's going to make it and I hate that line. I hate it, right? Because I just think it straight away gives you an excuse to cop out on things, right? Well, not everyone's going to make it. So I always, so my extra line to that is not everyone's going to make it, but anyone can make it. ⁓ I don't know who that is, right? I don't know any guy knows who that is, right? And we're going to find that out and shift your position from this obsession of going, I want to be in the academy or I want to be in the EPP Would it be great?

speaker-0 (38:04)

brilliant.

speaker-1 (38:17)

If I got into the Academy, like, wouldn't it be great if I got a professional contract? And then you start to see this real growth towards, okay, what do I need to do? then finding your process is really important, but how are you going to do it? And then you need help with that as a young person, right? And as a parent, you need to find a good coach You need to get in touch with your county leads for your age group, right? You need to, ⁓ find the appropriate level that you're trying to chase and hit. But like I said, find your process. What is it that you really enjoy about playing cricket? What is it that you really, ⁓

you know, want to chase it apart from, to which you don't get obsessed with the outcomes, with the process around trying to get there.

speaker-0 (38:54)

I love that line. I'll be using that. Not everyone can make it, but anyone can make it. love that. Okay. So are there any specific or

kind of motivation killers that you see a lot in youth cricket. You mentioned you hate it when you see 13 year olds and 14 and 15 year olds drop off. And I think, well, the data at ECB used to be that 15 was a massive drop off in terms of participation. Do you see any, you know, one or two big motivation killers that affects young players?

speaker-1 (39:33)

You know, said before that parents are the biggest factor, I think, in a young person's development. And that has probably been the biggest killer that I see. You know, I've told parents to hide behind their car before when their child's batting, right? You know, like doing this from mid-off is not going to help. And I always say, I use the language around again, not positive, but like helpful and unhelpful body language and unhelpful and helpful language around. Do you think what you're saying there is helping them?

be better or is it not helping them be better? And don't get me wrong, you you want to help and you think you could do more from outside the pitch, but often, you know, I always think back to COVID times and, you know, as tough as they were, right, they were great for us from a developer point of view because we, parents wasn't allowed inside the cricket center. And you saw children really express themselves. And again, it comes back to like, you know, the behaviours that are linked with your words. So, you know, I often get parents say to me, and I want parents to be involved with the child because I think it's so important. I think it's great. You know, your dad and your mum is just...

They're your parents and you want them to be involved but if you really want to help, right, if you really want to help them, like I said, just that car journey home is number one, right? That car journey, like, and be consistent with them, be so consistent. So the biggest thing I warn against is that if they have a good day, don't take them for ice cream, right? And if they've had a bad day, you know, they're going straight home. Like stay away from that completely, almost have it like the opposite way, because I always see parents saying, I want my son to play with more freedom

I want them to be my son or my daughter to express themselves and then the moment they try to express themselves and they get out they'll say why did you play that shot? Right so it's like really counterintuitive all the time right so if I want them to be brave I want to express themselves right my language has to be brave it has to be expressive I have to reward committment, effort and intent. So I've got to really think about what I'm chasing here and how am I backing that up.

speaker-0 (41:24)

Yeah, that is fascinating. I'm just thinking about some of the sessions that we do here at Cricket Mind and most of the first sessions, if we're working with a young player, the first session, the parent will be in the session. And that's really important because it gives extra context and it kind of, it's like a handover kind of period. But in the second and third and subsequent sessions, often the child works

with us without the parent and they come out with different things actually, because it doesn't mean that they don't love the parent any less, but it's just sometimes when they're away from the parent, it just gives them that freedom, doesn't it, to say things that perhaps they wouldn't say in front of mum and dad normally. So that was interesting about what you were saying about COVID. It seemed like a lot of development went on when it was...

Look at

speaker-1 (42:23)

And the other thing we do is we dampen creativity right in those moments especially for coaches as well because I've got staff members they worry because the parents are sitting like dead center of the balcony and like I said to a lot of parents be really intentional with everything like where are you sitting like are you in the eyeline are you down the other side right you can still be a big part of it and I promise you they will come back to you right when they're 21, 22 they will come back to you right and it's always well meaning it's always they want the best but it's just like you said it's just that total that

understanding how can I be better in it and parents that genuinely seek them. I'm seeing that a lot more now of parents that are looking to seek help and we do certain, we put certain workshops on as well and I there's some great ones out there around and I would advise all the parents to go to those because the frameworks that you get from them and the language is going to be really, really helpful.

speaker-0 (43:12)

Well actually, I'm going to plug here we do actually have a parent workshop coming up at Cricket Mind — it's on Tuesday, so ⁓ if this goes out on Sunday, and you fancy it, get online. But being a cricket parent is very difficult isn't it? There's something about cricket that's different to other sports. Do you think that expectations on players, young players, do you think they've changed since you were a young player yourself?

speaker-1 (43:42)

Yeah, I think they have changed because of just because of everything's on video now, the analytics that have come in, play cricket, you know, like, I could have got three ducks in a row. But if you ask me, I say I got three fifties and you wouldn't know you don't know any any any any different right. I remember my dad would ask and it would always be a 30 odd I got a 30 odd or I got a 40 odd right. And I've got like under 10. So and you can't do that no more.

speaker-0 (43:58)

Can't get away with it anymore.

Really great point. I remember doing that actually.

speaker-1 (44:11)

And Woody, the other thing is, again, coming back to the parent thing, because just how important they are in a young person's life is that what we've got to understand in the society there is social media now. Like everything is out there. So the kids are going through so much more now, right? So we've had stuff around selection, right? We've, you 15 year olds not being selected and straight away on one of these social media platforms, these mates are all going in on him that, oh, the teams come out and you haven't been selected and they're posted. So he's dealing with all that. And then on top of that, you're coming on heavy on top of him about.

Why is he not playing and all that kind of stuff? So those are the moments they need the most support. They need you to be a parent, right? They need you to be a mum need you to be a dad and you need to pick on getting back to that point. The hardest time it is not show love. You've got to show love. You know, and if I had that setback and you know, that's just one story. And then we've had like stories of, know, you're as coaches, we've got to be so intentional with our language, right? Whereas back then you think about some of the things that coaches would have said to us in the changing room, right? And but you've heard it and then for seven days you go away. Everyone's forgot about it.

Whereas now right two minutes later, it's on social media, it's on a group chat. the coach said this to you. So these young people are dealing with this all the time, this constant, you know, messaging around like what's been said to you this and your, your setback or your, your, your adversity is just rammed down your throat for like, for like seven days straight. So you can't get away from it. So we've got all got to be intentional parents, coaches in terms of the language that we use. And when we do deselect someone to make sure we do that in the right way.

speaker-0 (45:43)

Let's talk a little bit about identity. So many young cricketers, they can start to define themselves by their performance. Do see that as being problematic?

speaker-1 (45:57)

Yeah, yeah, really problematic because again, you're, you're tying your identity to something that's way out of your control, which is way out of your control. And that again, that fluctuation of good day, bad day, good day has a knock on your, on your mental, mental health, from my point of view, has a knock on your confidence. It has a knock on your resilience, uh, because you're then turning up and trying to tie your success to something that you don't, that hasn't happened yet. And you don't know whether it's going to happen. Um, so yeah, from that point of view.

speaker-0 (46:30)

So when a player's identity becomes...

very closely linked to their cricket. How can they separate who they are from how they perform? Have you got any practical tips for them?

speaker-1 (46:50)

I think, you know, we often hear the thing about, you you coach the person, not the player, right? But then part of that is getting to know who that person is. ⁓ So for me, I would never start, if someone's having a bad time or a bad day, you never start with the thing that's giving them the most anxiety, right? And the stress, right? You talk about, if you really know them, you talk about other stuff in their life, you talk about things that might be going well. And I think from that person's point of view, it's really important that they've got things in their life that are not just cricket. So like I know when I was growing up,

I was often referred to as the cricketer. So here is the cricketer, right? So then you almost you're holding on to something rather than thinking I've got to keep getting better at this thing and I'm not really worried about what people think of me. So again, that identity person is so important from my point of view, from a coaching aspect, it is that kind of really getting to know them outside of cricket so you can speak about things that do light their face up and get them talking and get them out of this kind of little bubble and then we can address the cricket. ⁓

And then again, like I not attaching praise to them personally, but attracting praise to a thing that they've done. So, you know, your Nathan Wood who does a podcast, right? You're not a podcaster. So it's like, it's that kind of constant. Again, you get what you emphasize. So the more you put that messaging in, the more you kind of say in your training sessions, you say in your car, it becomes, it just becomes a norm because we forget, right? And it's very easy. And cricket is a really tough sport. And I do think it's the toughest sport for

the amount of time you spend for parents is tough because we're traveling all over the country. Most games, especially if you're going to a county set up, you're going two and a half hours away, two hours, sometimes an overnight stay. And for players, like I said, it's a whole day thing. You get out first ball, you're waiting six hours and you're sitting in that sink. You're sitting there, know, it's, it's, is, is adversity and it's your ability to, to move through that adversity is, is, the key and how you do that and how you find coping strategies and how you find ways to navigate that is, the most important thing.

speaker-0 (48:44)

Yeah, can be a brutal game, can't it? You've coached extensively in both boys and girls cricket, male and female cricket. What have those experiences taught you?

speaker-1 (48:47)

this one.

I think coaching the women's games made me a better coach. Yeah, 100%. I think just because of how much more intentional you have to be with your language and your session planning in terms of where that game is at. And I do think both games are very different and they're really exciting and they're all right with all the boys games up, but the girls games so exciting in its own space in terms of how it's played and how the girls go about it.

Look, ultimately you're dealing with people. when people ask me the question of what's the difference, I don't really see it like we're coaching. I think the biggest difference I've noticed is with the boys, they're very competitive one on one, whereas the girls are more competitive as a team. And that's something that intentionally as a, as a, what we've done as a leader, when I've coached across both is that you might put up a boy against a boy to do a sprint, right? But the girls, you'll put them up against a time as a team, you know, a time sprint, right? So that's something that's brought success within those two environments. I think.

In terms of coaching across both, it's like I said, the fears, the anxieties, know, the things that they're all, all, they're all the same, really, you know, people want to do well, they want to be cared for. They want to know that you're invested in making them better. And those are the things that they value.

speaker-0 (50:06)

Have you noticed any differences in confidence and self-belief between the two?

speaker-1 (50:15)

I would say more openly, there's a lot more emotion in the girls game. There's a lot more emotion and they're much more, they'll open up to you a lot quicker. And that's not to say there's no emotion in the boys game. We know with everything that's going on and what we're trying to work on and there is emotion there, but it's just people don't express it and boys don't express it as well, I think. So those are the two biggest differences for me, but I found it a little bit easier with the girls to get to the place you want to get to a lot quicker.

because they will open up to you, they will let you know what's troubling them and where they're feeling, where they're feeling where the boys are a little bit more reluctant because they may feel that that may go against their selection or that may make them perceive to be weak.

speaker-0 (50:59)

So what can boys cricket learn from girls cricket would you say?

speaker-1 (51:06)

I think have more fun. Have more fun. It's not as serious as you think it is. Right. So again, when I came into the academy programme and I remember one of the first things, I remember somebody saying that, oh, it's really serious stuff now, you know, they're in an academy and it's going to be two years. They're going to get perfect. And I was like, no, these should be the best years of your life. Like this should be the best two years of your life, regardless of what happens. Right. Yeah. We're to do everything to make you a pro. Right.

speaker-0 (51:25)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (51:31)

But when we look at it at the end, you're going to go like, know what, worked, I did everything I could and it was there for me or it wasn't there for me, but it should be the two best. And I'm with the boys. want, I think we could learn that side of things. And I think, cause there's a bit more, I should probably the wrong word to say where we've, before it would have been, there's a bit more at stake. Obviously the girls games catching up now with the, with the professionalism of it. Whereas before there wasn't really a future there with the women's cricket. now, you know, you 19 year olds going for 120 grand in the hundred. So I wonder if that space is going to start to change.

things will start to get a little bit more serious and parents will start to get a little bit more. Obviously with the boys we've had that for a long time and that competitiveness and I wish I could bring that freedom and that joy that I've experienced with the girls pathway and the academy and just their togetherness a little bit more into the boys side where it does feel a lot more individual. It's me versus you. yeah, so I think that's probably the thing I'd love to bring over.

speaker-0 (52:22)

Yeah.

Okay, and let's flip it. What can girls cricket learn from boys cricket?

speaker-1 (52:32)

⁓

I think it's, yeah, there's a lot of things that I've seen in that environment that I like. I think they're just as competitive, right? They're competitive. They want to do well. I don't know the answer to that question if I'm honest with you. think I've probably seen when I went over there, I was like, actually we're missing a lot over here. And when I've been, you know what I mean? So it's been that way. And I think probably more from a, from a culture structure point of view, I'd like to see us. ⁓

Probably the thing that I did, one of things that I did bring into the women's space when I came was a little bit more of that challenge and that competitiveness and not being worried to be able to push them because they love to compete. know, and I think before we looked at it like, ⁓ they just want to play cricket and they want to have fun with their friends. That's great, have fun, but we're going to work really hard as well. And I think those two things have to be joined up.

speaker-0 (53:27)

Faisal, we're coming up to time, so let's finish with a quick fire round of questions. So, and you have to answer these in one sentence. So, first question, what's the most underrated quality in young cricketers?

speaker-1 (53:48)

intensity.

speaker-0 (53:50)

Okay. So he's gone for the one word, not the one sentence. Biggest myth in youth cricket?

speaker-1 (54:00)

that if you don't get into the under 13s or the EPP or the academy you're not going to become a professional cricketer.

speaker-0 (54:09)

Interesting. One thing parents worry too much about?

speaker-1 (54:16)

Batting orders. Selection. ⁓ Bowling orders.

speaker-0 (54:23)

And what's one thing that coaches focus on too much?

speaker-1 (54:33)

session planning.

speaker-0 (54:35)

Okay, ⁓ best coaching advice you've ever received?

speaker-1 (54:46)

Mate — whatever level you're coaching at, make it a high performance environment.

speaker-0 (54:51)

Okay, and finally, one thing you'd change about youth cricket tomorrow?

speaker-1 (54:59)

I'd get rid of play cricket.

speaker-0 (55:01)

⁓ interesting you get rid of it completely would you? Okay why's that?

speaker-1 (55:07)

Because again, coming back to us judging our success based off numbers, right, and we know the importance of impact players now in the game of T20. So, know, a 13, a high-pressured environment is going to look different to a 16. Often we want to produce pathways where players are playing without freedom and expressing themselves. And because of play cricket and you want to show your score, you often play against the game and you try to score a 50 or 60, but it might be completely at the detriment of your team.

speaker-0 (55:29)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (55:35)

And I do want expand on my session plan ⁓ comment as well because of the culture stuff is that I think we, session plans are so important and setting an intention for a session. But I think we get obsessed over them sometimes and we've got to be able to be good enough to adapt off them and understand where our group is at in that moment. And not, it's just a piece of paper, right? You've got to bring it to life. And if we have to pivot at times, you've got to pivot.

speaker-0 (55:59)

No, that's good advice. And with the play cricket, well, yeah, I'm completely with you on that. And like you said before, you can't fake anymore, can you? When you got one, you can't say yeah I got thirty odd Yeah, it's kiboshed that. Thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing your experiences and your insights with us.

speaker-1 (56:09)

I'm

speaker-0 (56:26)

Best of luck as well to you, not just for the rest of this season, but also for your coaching career, which from my perspective, it looks like it's going in the right direction very quickly. And if you do make it into the England setup, then please do remember to send us the odd spare ticket. So it's been great having you on, mate.

speaker-1 (56:51)

Thanks Woody I've had a lot of fun, mate, and thank you for having me on.

speaker-0 (56:54)

And, um, well, you know, thank you to everyone for watching and listening. Um, if you are enjoying the pod, then please do hit subscribe, leave us a review, um, share it with a player, a parent, a coach, whoever you think it might be helpful for. So thanks again, Faisal. Um, until next time, take care of everyone.

I call that stumps.