Hello, everybody, and welcome to another amazing episode of Unstoppable Success, the podcast.

We hear from amazing leaders, humans and professionals and how they have risen to success and had that unstoppable success.

And today I have another great human with me, and that is Chris Nicholas.

And let me tell you a little bit about Chris.

He actually is the chief executive officer of Renown Regional Medical center, which he in Reno is one of, well, the only hospital you actually ever want to go to.

But he has had a great rise, starting off in Texas and rising up through administration, executive directorship to again now being the CEO of the Regional Medical Center.

He has had a great rise and he's got great tips, shares of wisdom on how he has risen to this position in such a short amount of time.

So welcome, Chris.

Thanks, Jacqueline.

And to the comment about the hospital, we're proud of what we do here, but I do think we have other good, good providers in our community and around our community as well.

But we're definitely proud of the work we do at Renown.

Well, you know, I am a little partial, but, you know, for those of you that don't know, my husband is actually a physician at the hospital.

But it is like most communities, there are great medical providers at all the different locations, but we are partial to Renown.

So, Chris, you know, as I shared, you started in Texas.

You actually have got a little bit back and forth from Texas to Nevada, but you're now the CEO of the hospital.

And it has not been like many, many, many, many years, like 20 years.

It's been a short amount of time.

So can you share a little bit about your rise to CEO?

Yeah, absolutely.

I'll give you a little bit of background, but I'll attribute it to two simple things, which is a little bit of dumb luck and timing.

But going back, I really didn't intentionally go into healthcare originally.

I went to law school and on day three realized that that wasn't the path in life for me and called my then girlfriend of two weeks and now wonderful wife Denise of 15 years, actually as of two days from now.

Happy anniversary.

Thank you.

And.

And told her I was going to drop out of law school and she said okay.

And thank goodness she was there because I don't know that I would have made that move without that kind of support.

And funny enough, I called her back two weeks later and told her I was going to be a golf pro.

And she told me no, said I wasn't good enough.

And thank goodness again that she was there because she was very Much right.

And very likely right.

So.

But then I obviously found my way into health care.

I decided to go get an mha.

Still not for the typical reasons that people get into healthcare.

Most of the people in healthcare have this calling from a pretty early point in life, whether it's because of a life event or they just are naturally called to the profession and the science.

But I got into it because it used to be seemingly a recession proof industry, a father who was a financial advisor.

And so it made a lot of sense.

The Affordable Care act was happening and the government was pretty focused on changing healthcare.

And so it seemed like a good field to go into because I didn't have that typical path in.

I really struggled to find a job.

I was seemingly overqualified getting an MHA to take an entry level position in a hospital, but I was seemingly under qualified to lead people because I had not led anybody before.

And so I found myself in this gray area.

I ultimately found my way into what they call post acute care or skilled nursing facility leadership, which I thought would be a one year stop and then I would just catapult my way into being the CEO of a hospital and ended up spending six years in the work.

I generally loved what I did.

I got the opportunity to care for some of the most vulnerable population and probably one of the most challenging areas of healthcare.

And it taught me some true values around how to operate and lead in the healthcare space.

It really forced me because of no layers to learn how to engage with patients, how to engage with clinicians and really how to navigate challenges across the board, whether it be in the rev cycle or the human resources or obviously the clinical aspects of things.

And then what brought me into Renown was a couple of years later you mentioned I had moved back and forth.

I had kind of seemingly told my wife we were going to move from Texas to Reno.

Was really drawn by snowboarding and a little bit naive and novice in marriage.

And so I said we're moving to Reno and apparently you should ask.

And so we ultimately moved.

She's always again been a wonderful support system.

And then a couple of months, couple of years into that, sorry, we, I got the itch to move back to Texas.

Things didn't materialize as I thought they would here.

And we did so in about eight months.

And she looked across the table and said, I'm moving back to Reno.

You can come if you want.

And that's when Renown called.

And I don't think that there's such a thing as coincidence.

I think everything Happens for a reason.

And I started in our inpatient rehab hospital and that's where I realized I was always called to healthcare.

I just didn't know it.

It took a exceptional not for profit healthcare organization like Renown to make me realize the impact that you can have leading in healthcare and participating in healthcare in a community like Reno.

And then the rest is kind of history.

In Renown.

I've just a little bit of it, like I said, has been kind of right place, right time and timing and luck and I've had the opportunity to progress through the organization.

I've had a lot of support in doing that.

But you know, if you attribute it to a couple of things like how do you go from running a skilled nursing facility to I GUESS it's maybe nine years now later, 10 years later, having the privilege of being the CEO of the largest hospital in the region.

Outside of the luck and timing, it's self investment.

I actually gave this advice to a healthcare MHA student a couple of months ago.

He met with me and I recommended some books for him.

And then when we came back together about six months later, I asked if he read them and he said no, he didn't have time.

My next question was how many social media apps do you have and how long do you spend on them?

He proceeded to tell me about 30 minutes a day and I said 30 minutes on each app and that's two or two and a half hours a day.

And I just simply said, you know, if you want to be different, you have to behave different and so pick up the books and read them there.

There's a reason that that there's a recommendation for them.

I think the other is often new leaders especially, or just people in general really think about the organization as their sole source of development.

And while I think that it is the organization's responsibility to develop people, I also think that that that doesn't take you as far as you want to go.

If you're that passionate, you've got to invest in your own sel.

Good organizations will have development for leaders and for the team members, but you can go much further if you take the time to invest yourself.

The other is just being a sponge, right?

Aggressive learning, picking up anything that I could.

I already kind of touched on it, but obsessive reading is how I would categorize it and then finding my way into rooms and next to people that were doing the things that I wanted to do.

Ed Mylett has a great quote that most learning is caught, not taught.

And I think that that's really true.

Observing and listening, you can pick up a tremendous amount of skills and expertise just from that.

And then I'd say lastly is, well, maybe two more things.

Seeking mentorship.

It's pretty surprising how available people that have had high levels of success will make themselves to people that are eager and hungry to learn and grow.

And LinkedIn has been a great resource.

I picked up several mentors along the way, both through that avenue as well as others.

And the last one is being coachable.

You know, it's sometimes harder the higher you get that you have to control that ego a little bit.

But I think being open to feedback and seeking that feedback aggressively and then doing something with that feedback is critically important.

Yeah, I love that.

Well, you said a couple of things I want to kind of go back to.

So you went in to that first, you know, facility, you know, and you were thinking, you know, one year.

You were thinking one year, and then off to a CEO.

Yeah, of course, right.

23, 24 years old.

Of course.

So this is gonna sound like a.

You know, what made you decide, like, so then, right.

I mean, obviously you say there's six years, but.

But what made you decide that you wanted to be a CEO, and then was there something that made you, in that six years, realize you had to learn?

I think it's a lifelong learning experience, but, yes, what made me want to be a CEO, I think initially, going into the mha, that's just kind of the natural mindset of a lot of people, is that's kind of the progression that you see yourself getting to at some point.

But the reality is, I think it became more real as I was leading that first facility, and just the impact that I could have on the people that I led, the people that.

That they led, and the people that they cared for.

And so I said this to leaders often, especially clinicians.

Clinicians always struggle to make that leap into the.

You know, sometimes the full leadership or just the leadership role in general.

We talk to a nurse, and they'll say, you know, I just.

I really love caring for my patients and making sure they get great care.

And I said, well, you can multiply that by 100 or 500.

If you really focus on, you know, leading your teams in the right ways and empowering and supporting your teams to care for patients.

You can.

You can have that effect, but at a much more magnified proportion.

Yeah, that's.

That's.

You know, it's.

It's.

You know, it's the impact and the duplication of, like, or the, the mass.

People that you can actually affect is.

Is great in that leadership role, more so than just obviously the one on one.

So, you know, the.

And I think this is something that is.

Is somewhat harder for a lot more people than they actually realize, but which is, you know, you even said, you know, it's great where you can actually, you know, whether it's leadership knowledge, a lot of times it's caught, not taught.

And that takes listening.

And so how do you as a leader really bring that out to people?

Because so many people, you walk into the room and they're so used to like, oh, I've got to raise my hand, I got to raise my hand or I got to speak.

And, and they, they don't know how to use these two things next to their, you know, on the side of their head, which are their ears.

Yeah.

I think I have two sayings.

One is, I think commonly known and the other comes from an executive coach that I recently had.

The first one is, is you have two eyes and two ears and one mouth for a reason.

Right.

Is you should be observing and listening more than you should be talking.

And great leaders do that.

My most recent coaching venture, which had some of the most profound impacts on my life, he said good leaders know how to ask the right questions and then shut up and the people will help get to the right answers.

And a lot of times it's not the answer that you would have come up with as the leader.

And so I think it's a skill I continue to work on and I think many leaders try to focus on is usually when you're in executive leadership rooms, everybody's technically smart and technically good at their job, but it's those what we call interpersonal skills that.

And listening is one of those.

How do you become kind of a fanatical listener is critically important.

And I think by doing that, you really empower your teams too.

If you're the first to speak as the CEO, it's pretty likely that people are going to run with that idea or that thought as opposed to generating their own original thoughts.

Or they may know exactly what to do, but they may decide not to say it.

So I think you sometimes have to get out of your own way.

And a lot of times, like my coach said, ask the right questions and then just be quiet.

Right.

So would you say that, you know, I mean, I, I find that the active, active listening is so much harder and then also being able to ask the question and then as we say chip, clip it or zip it.

Yeah.

You know, there's actually a simple thing you can do to these days to help with listening.

I think we are a distracted society.

Right.

It's.

And how often do you sit in meetings and see phones and computers and iPads and all of those things.

Right.

And.

And trust me, I'm guilty of it.

Like anybody you have that the dopamine hit almost right.

And you want to solve the problem quickly and that little device in your hand gives you the ability to do it.

But, but oftentimes you the substance and the context and the importance of the discussion.

And so, you know, even creating rules around meetings can be valuable with your teams to say, hey, we're committed to this next hour of time to, you know, discuss whatever the topic is we're here to discuss.

And let's, let's put the phones down and be present with each other and make sure that we're giving this our full attention because it probably deserves it given that we brought this group of people into the room.

Yeah.

So how do you go.

How.

As a CEO, I mean, you know, by creating that meeting structure.

And a lot of times people say, like meeting paralysis.

How do you avoid that?

Yeah, I think it starts first with kind of rules to engagement.

And so depending on the meeting, if it's kind of your routine executive leadership meeting, call it each week.

You know, having a clear agenda is really important.

That's done in advance.

I think any meeting should really have an agenda.

How often do we, especially these days, we get on virtual meetings and you've got 10 people sitting there and you can kind of, you can kind of add up how much the meeting costs for the hour.

And, and there's no agenda.

It just somebody tries to kick it off.

And there's not a lot of structure.

So I think a little bit of rules of engagement, a clear agenda.

I think content in advance, like pre reads are really important.

So this is something our team has been working on is, is that if you have a topic that you're going to be presenting content on that it's in there 24 hours in advance.

And then everybody else's responsibility is to look at it and do the pre read so that you're.

You're informed coming into the room.

And then we really try to practice two things kind of throughout the meeting.

And really at the end is.

Is making sure that we do the next agenda while we're sitting there so that the people that have that responsibility to bring something into the next encounter know it and are on the hook for it.

And then secondly, Is, you know, really making sure that we understand what did we talk about today, what decisions did we make and what should people know that aren't in this room that we need to communicate to them?

So that helps create clarity and alignment from the team.

We all heard the same thing, we all agreed to this and this is what we're going to communicate.

So there's some consistency coming out of it.

You know, I really like that, being able to create the agenda and create that consistency.

And it kind of brings me back up to the question of accountability and where people are, you know, today were one of the topics that, you know, I've been actually listening to a book, I tend to listen to a lot of books as I walk my dog.

And you know, as leaders, you know, one thing that has been said in like the past, like when I was in the corporate world, it was like, you know, you had your job, you did your, you know, you came in, you had the blinders on, right?

And people didn't necessarily know what your, what your life was outside side of work or that you were not supposed to even think about your life outside of work while you were sitting at work.

So how do you now like, you know, with all the different tools and things that are out there as a leader, you know, maybe bring into that emotional intelligence into leadership and, and creating those accountabilities without creating, I guess the, you know, I guess the, the negative.

Any negativity in the like water cooler talk.

Maybe try to answer the question.

I'm not sure I fully understand it, but I'll take a stab.

I, I think first what you're kind of hitting on is a separation of your personal life and your work life.

And I, I don't actually think that that exists.

And, and I'll give you a great example.

So at Renown Regional Medical center, We have roughly 3,500 or so employees all in.

And that's a lot of people to talk to.

And how do you do that in an effective way that's meaningful?

And I was fortunate to have a mentor that did similar work to me in a similar sized hospital.

And he pushed me pretty hard to do what we call employee forums.

And so 3 times a year for a 2 week period, I do 28 forums that are 30 minutes long kind of morning, noon and night.

And we get about 3,000 of our employees that show up to those three times a year.

It's a powerful way to connect with people, to share where we're going, what we're focused on, how we're Performing and frankly, where we need to focus differently and the other one, and there's always an ask in it.

There's always first say, here's what we're going to do as leadership and as the organization, but here's what we need from you as a frontline team member.

Simplest example is, you know, if we're dealing with, you know, infection rates and things like that, it's like we need you to wash your hands.

Right.

It sounds simple, but being able to say that to 3,000 people is.

Is impactful.

And so in those forums, I bring myself into them.

I bring my family into them.

My wife's not always ecstatic about the pictures that I might use to share the family.

She always looks great, and I always remind her that I'm standing next to her so she'll look even better.

But, you know, sharing stories about your family and humanizing yourself and being vulnerable I think is a critically important skill these days.

You know, people want to know that the organization they work for has the right mission and that they can connect to it.

And they want to know that the person that's leading that or the people that are leading that are.

That they're people and that they care about the not only success of the organization and its mission, but of them and that they're there to support them.

And another great saying from a recent executive coach was that people will only be as vulnerable up to the level, but not beyond that, that you are with them and you.

You gain an incredible level of trust and confidence by just sharing with people a little bit of insight about yourself.

I don't know if that answered your question, but.

Yeah, no, it does.

And the part about, you know, it's like.

Because one thing that people used to say is that sometimes when people are too personal, it actually ends up breeding that some negativity comes into it.

So there's almost like, don't be personal because it'll help curb negativity.

But not necessarily.

Yeah, I don't.

I don't know.

I think.

I think being a full.

Being your full self at work has tremendous value.

I mean, you.

You have to be careful, but you also should be a consistent person in my mind, inside and outside of work.

Yeah, no, that's actually really true.

So, you know, as, you know, with, I guess, things that are happening today in the world and, you know, I've heard different.

Different.

Some people say there's more layers, some people say there's less layers.

So as the.

As a CEO of the hospital, how do you deal with you know, creating the team.

And is it, is it better to have a lean team or is it layers?

Like, what if, like, how do you help those, you know, the organization?

Yeah, you take me back to a class in, in undergrad organizational theory that I was just thought, thought it was going to be the worst class in the world.

It ended up being an amazing class.

And some of the, some of the teachings in that were about org structure and, and we're all constantly evolving our work structures to find the right balance and the right numbers.

I think that there's some pretty clear indications of how many direct reports a leader can effectively lead and have.

And so I think that's a foundation.

It's kind of a directional or a guidepost to use.

And then it's just, you know, a little bit of art, I guess.

There's, there's some science to it from a foundational perspective and then a little bit of art.

But, you know, what we focus on is, yeah, one, can the person effectively lead the group of people that they have just by pure numbers and then really setting some clear operational priorities.

We created, created a system, we call it leader alignment.

And it's about taking the priorities, the strategic priorities of the organization and of the hospital and cascading those down through leaders and making sure that they clearly understand how their work, that they do, connects to the strategic and operational priorities of the organization.

And then you gotta give them the authority and the autonomy to actually do that.

And then you actually have to.

One thing that I think I've been labeled with is being protective of their time and really trying to make sure that we don't throw too much into the top of the funnel and that the right stuff comes out of the bottom, that the right work and, and the good work gets done first and always.

And then lastly is give them the support, the tools, the training to actually do the work that we're asking them to do.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, it, yeah, it's having a team and, and having people actually, you know, seeing where people take the work is really important.

I want to, I do want to go back to something that you said, you know, again, on your, on your way up and in part of your success, you know, it's.

It's something that I think a lot of people forget about, and that is using resources and asking for, either asking for mentorship or asking or being inquisitive.

So is there something that, you know, somebody who's a rising leader or somebody who's looking for that success?

You know, how do how do you, how would you share or tell somebody, like to be able to just go out and ask?

Because some people are afraid.

That's probably a hard one for me to answer because I don't know that I've ever been labeled as shy.

Right.

So, yeah, I mean, I think as a, you know, if you have a goal and you have a position you want to be in, what better way to learn how to get to that place than from the people that are doing it today?

And I like, I think I sort of touched on it.

People that have excelled to a certain point, they, they feel a responsibility, I think, and, and actually I think find a tremendous amount of joy in helping kind of pay it forward and pass that on.

It's not even like an owed debt.

I think it's actually meaningful and I think reinforcing to them to be able to coach.

And then often times the mentor learns more from the mentor mentee relationship than the mentee does.

Right.

When you try to teach something, you recognize some of the opportunities you have in and of yourself to learn from it.

And so I think you just have to have the courage to reach out.

I tell you, there's a prominent author pretty well known in healthcare and as I was trying to, to make the decision of actually accepting this job, there was some unique challenges with it kind of coming in the door.

I reached out to him on LinkedIn and didn't expect much, but I tell you, I think the same day he responded and said, here's my cell phone, let's jump on a call.

And it was 30 or 40 minutes of some of the probably best advice I've ever gotten in my career.

And it was all because I was willing to just send a message.

I think today you have the people that are trying to come up in leadership have more access to some of the thought leaders and the people doing the work than you ever have before.

LinkedIn is, like I said, an incredibly powerful tool for professionals if used in the right ways.

Yeah, you know, I absolutely love that.

And I think listeners as you're, you know, I think that's actually one of the biggest things is, is being able to have that courage to be able to ask people do like to share and know like if you have a goal and where you want to go look for people or companies that you admire or, and have like values that align with what you like.

Yeah.

And I think internally in your own organization, you know, oftentimes people aren't trying to exclude people.

And so sometimes just the opportunity to ask you Know, could I join that meeting?

I'd really like to learn about what you guys are talking about.

I think more often than not people are going to be willing to accommodate that.

They, you know, they want their leaders and their people to learn and be interested in growth.

And you know, I think one important thing, we recently went to do a search for a key position on our leadership team and a couple of internal candidates applied and just saying thank you for the interest because when people internally are saying, I want to do more and I want to commit more of my, my time potentially and obviously my life to the, to you and the team and the organization, it means something.

People don't step up unless things are going well in the organization from their perspective.

So yeah, you've just got to have the courage to ask.

And I think that all the avenues are there both internally and externally today, probably more than they ever were.

And I, I'd also say that organizations, I think are more focused on internal talent development kind of post pandemic in the healthcare space than they have been previously.

Yeah, you know, and you, and you, you shared, you know, that something else that I think is really important for, you know, is to be coachable.

Yeah.

And so, so tell us a little bit about that because I think that people, some, I think people think that they're all coachable, but they're not.

Yeah, yeah.

It goes back to the listening thing a little bit.

Right.

First and foremost, you have to be willing to hold up a mirror or have somebody else hold up a mirror.

And oftentimes when that happens, like in professional coaching situations or informal coaching situations, is that mirror doesn't often show what you want it to show when you're really objective about it.

And so, yeah, I think that you have to constantly challenge yourself to say, where could I have been better?

Where can I be better?

And then what do I need to be able to do that?

And you know, the higher you climb, the harder it is to get people to be honest with you and give you feedback whether they're above you or, or next to you or below you in the org structure.

And so I think you have to create that, that personality and that Persona that you want it and that you're actually going to receive it.

Well, the worst thing that you can do is ask somebody for feedback.

They give it to you and then you dispute it almost immediately.

Right.

You just, you killed the whole purpose.

So I think it's showing people not only that you want it, but that you'll actually take action from it.

Again, not to reference it too much.

But the most recent coaching experience, one of the people who had to give me feedback was my wife.

And I would say it was direct, it was honest, it was pretty accurate, and it was hard to hear, But I took action on it.

And because I took action on it, things are different in that part of our relationship.

And so it's meaningful if you seek it out and if you actually do something with it.

Yeah, you just said something, too, that it's hard to hear, Right?

Like, that is, you know, I think that is actually one of the things that, you know, can make a person, you know, when they hear something is how do you not be negative about it?

It's.

And being reflective of yourself and being able to look inward and being able to be open to hearing something that's negative and so.

Or maybe not as positive.

How much do you think when people do that, whether it's yourself or like, as you said, it's made a difference.

How much do you think it really does make a difference for somebody when they are open to hearing?

Oh, I think that when you recognize where you are in whatever is being assessed and the feedback being given on it, it allows you to see things from a completely different perspective.

There's this grid.

I'm going to get this wrong, but it's like the things that you know about yourself that others don't know, and the things that.

That others know about you that you don't know about yourself.

I think that.

And there's four quadrants to it.

I'm giving you two of them.

But, you know, that perspective of people looking from the outside in, they see you from an entirely different place.

It can be really powerful.

So I think if you are open to hearing the feedback and you actually want to do something with it, you have to want to do something with it.

And likely when you're asking for feedback, you actually sometimes have to push people to give you the negative.

They'll tell you, you know, you're really great at this, or you do a good job at that.

And you sometimes have to say thank you.

And then can you tell me where I could be better?

Where can I be a better leader for you?

Where can I be a better leader for the organization?

What can I do?

From an interpersonal perspective is another one I touched on that a little while ago is, you know, at a certain point, everybody in the room is pretty smart and technically good at their job.

Then it comes down to what I call blind spots or interpersonal behaviors.

And where, where are some of those Gaps.

And, you know, there's a simple way to do it in my mind, which is, you know, sit down with the person and say, you know, I'm really looking for some feedback on this topic.

Where would you rate me on a 1 to 10 scale?

And, and once they rate you, well, what would it take me to be a 10?

So not only are you asking them to tell you where they think you are, but you're asking them what would help me progress to a different place from your perspective, from an outsider's perspective, and then.

Then it's your job to take action on that.

Yeah, I really love that.

You know, Chris, you've given some amazing insights and, you know, I think some of the key things that I want the listeners to really understand.

You know, there's a lot of things that we've covered here, but really understanding the fact that for that to be truly unstoppable and to have the rise, know what your goal is, speak to the people.

You know, be, be able to ask questions and search out people to.

Whether they're mentors or people that are in a position that you really would like to have or that you admire.

Be active in, in learning and listening and, and be coachable.

Yeah.

And keep raising the bar.

You know, once you reach a certain point, there's really no endpoint in this.

Right.

You're constantly evolving and pushing yourself.

And so, you know, once you've reached, whether it's the position or you've completed the project or the initiative, it's, you know, where's my next opportunity and what am I going to need to do to become better?

Whether it's as a person or as a leader or both.

And so I think you have to keep pushing yourself whether the.

And again, I said it earlier, organizations, I think, have a responsibility to invest and support their people.

But it's sort of like parenting a kid in my mind.

Like, it's so easy to blame the school, but at the end of the day, the kid's with you for, you know, much more time than they are at school.

And so that comes down to you investing in your child's development, just like.

Like you investing in your own development.

Yeah, that's so true.

And actually, somebody had said to me, if you take your.

The.

The number is 10 of your income or is.

Should go to personal development or development for yourself.

Yeah, that's, you know, it's a, it's a.

It's a number that sticks in my brain.

So, you know.

Yeah, I've never, I've never Heard that I'd have to do the math on the investments.

But yeah, if you put a, if you can quantify the time that you spend and reading, reflecting, having conversations, that's probably pretty accurate.

Is, you've kind of, you've got to carve some portion of it out to make sure you're, you're self investing.

Yeah.

So, Chris, I'm going to ask you a question you may or may not want to answer.

What's next for you?

I don't know.

I'm, you know, I'm really thrilled where I am.

We've, we've got a lot of work, as you know.

You, you mentioned it at the beginning.

We just, we just finished our 10 year strategy.

It's pretty hard to do a three year strategy and look that far out into the future.

Ten years is, is, you know, ambitious, I would say.

But we're pretty clear on what we think we need to do to achieve our mission and serve our community.

And I'm enjoying the role that I'm playing in it.

I think that we still have lots of things that we can improve on.

We have lots of things that we can create and develop.

And I'll tell you, I've never worked with a better leadership team, both at the organization level with our leader, Dr. Brian Erling, and also at the hospital level.

I'm incredibly proud of the work we've done over the last three years from our financial recovery, coming out of the pandemic like most organizations, to, you know, fairly quickly being able to say, now it's time to look forward and say, what do we need to do to grow with our community and for our community?

And there's, there's nine years and four months left of work in that strategy to go.

That's it.

That's many years of great work to be done and great leadership.

So, so, Chris, thank you listeners.

Here's what I want you to do.

I want you to connect with Chris on LinkedIn.

If you have the DEs desire to be a CEO or to have unstoppable success, I am sure that Chris would be happy to give you some extra insight as well.

And please do me the favor of hitting subscribe and sharing this episode with your friends, your colleagues and your business associates.

Because the more people that can learn these great tips and insights, the better we all become as leaders and as people.

So thank you, Chris for being a great guest and thank you listeners.

This is unstoppable success.

I'm your host, Jacqueline Strominger, and keep being unstoppable.