Monica Millares: Hi, Sarah. It is an absolute pleasure having you in the show. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Sarah King:How are you? I'm really good. Thank you. And I'm really pleased to be here. I think since that first interaction we had on LinkedIn and then call, I'm like, I want to talk to Monica some more. So really excited to be here.

Thank you.

Monica Millares: Here we are. Thank you. Before we go full on into the topic and what you're doing, I like getting to know people first. So let's start with a few mindset questions like human questions. So let's start with what is your definition of success?

Sarah King:So I think for me, success is all around this idea of accomplishment did I achieve that thing or not?

And so that there's this kind of anchor into a goal. I think though where we can so often go wrong is in how we define that goal and that measure of success. And more often than not, we can base that measure of [00:01:00] success.

And so I think when we think about success, it's really important to start from a place of how do I define into, how do I define success internally for myself, like it needs to be an internal measure. And if it's an internal measure, that means it needs to be based on our values and the things that really drive us and inspire us.

I was sharing earlier with you that last weekend I took part in an ultra endurance event and I didn't finish so I retired at 40 kilometers of a 55 kilometer event. Now to the outside world that could be seen as failure because I didn't, complete, I retired. But for me my measures were driven by I want to take part because I'm new to ultra endurance so I want the experience.

How I show up on the mountain. was really important to me. So that was a measure of success for me. [00:02:00] And did I feel when I finished that I'd learned things and that I had things that I could apply in the future. And so from my internal measures of success, I was able to tick all of those boxes.

And I think that's why it's really important when we think about success, that we start from this sort of deep in a sense and understanding of. What is it that I want to achieve? And, recognizing that there are so many different ways that we can define our goals beyond just what the outside world might perceive as successful.

I really like

Monica Millares: that because you're tying success to values. Internal. It is, an internal thing. It is not whatever the world is telling us in any way. It's an internal compass.

Sarah King:Yeah. And I think that's really important and often gets lost because there's pressure for, but what are you going to put on social media?

What's the blog that you'll write? What's the story that you'll, sell? [00:03:00] And actually, we need to start by looking inwards and saying, Who do I want to be? How do I want to show up? And if we start to use those measures to define success, those are things that we can control and we can influence.

So often we can define success by things that are outside of our control. And that's just the pathway for failure. Yes,

Monica Millares: totally. And talking about failure. Yeah, I think like it's a beautiful, big topic, but it's not just failure as such. It's about the tough times that sometimes we link them with failure, but it's more like I want to talk more about the tough times.

What are the traits that you think you have or how have you coped better with the difficult times?

Sarah King:I think the thing that has served me well throughout my life, be that in my personal life or [00:04:00] in my career, is always to be learning, always take the learning from any experience. And I know it can sound a bit clichéd, it can be a bit overused, but actually the toughest situations or experiences are often the ones that gift us the most learning.

And I think if we can hang on to that. That belief, even in the darkest moments of there will be another side of this. I will be able to take the learning from this experience, even though it's really tough at the moment. I think that fuels our sense of hope. I think it also fuels our sense of kind of momentum and okay, let me work my way through this experience at the moment.

Because on the other side, there will be learning. And if there's learning, that means there's growth. And if there's growth, then that, that's success. That's a positive outcome. And, I say [00:05:00] that as someone who has been through those really, tough moments as an entrepreneur and has had tough experiences in my personal life.

And, it's hanging on to that sense of there will be another side. And when I get to the other side, they will be learning. And that's always really fueled me. Yes,

Monica Millares: I like that. And it reminds me if I look back at, I don't know, five, six years ago, Monica, five to six years ago, I used to say a lot Yeah, everything is happening for a reason.

There's something that I need to do here, learn, grow. Yeah. And nothing is permanent.

Sarah King:And I really like the kind of mobility that suggests this idea that things aren't fixed. Yes, external circumstances can [00:06:00] happen and that can feel really tough and that can actually feel really disempowering.

But again, if we're looking for those opportunities to grow and to learn that suggests movement and momentum and the ability to and I love that my design thinking background, growth mindset, I'm a leadership coach, that sense of through growth, we develop through growth.

We create change, I think, is really, important, especially in those moments when it feels like the odds are completely stacked against you. In those moments, that's what it's like. You have to hang on to that, sense of belief around, around learning and around growth.

Monica Millares: Yes, definitely. You do.

And then as I start moving more towards the topic. Yeah the podcast is about how do we create more purpose driven fintechs and products with impact? What is your opinion on [00:07:00] how do we build more purpose driven fintechs?

Sarah King:Yeah, I love it. It's such a great question. And I think it's a conversation like more people should be a part of.

Because I think it's so critical. I think there were a number of different things I was thinking about in response to this question. So I think firstly Within fintech, within financial services, there is a lot of regulation and that regulation serves a really important purpose. Like it's there to keep people safe.

It's there to protect customers and ensure that we're doing the right thing. However, some of the ways in which that regulation is set up and structured. stifles innovation. And that stifling can come from the fact that the regulation is quite complex. I often look at my background and my co founder's background.

We both have worked in a regulated environment before within financial [00:08:00] services. And I think if we didn't have that background, The chances of us building a fintech right now would be so much slimmer because it's, it can seem so intimidating and it can seem like it's too hard to understand and to break through.

And, I think if we're gonna, if we're gonna see more purpose led. FinTechs, we need to recognize that regulation is a huge part of that. And we need to empower people who don't necessarily have a financial services background to understand that regulatory environment. I think it can be a barrier. Now of course it should act as a barrier from poorly led FinTechs and poorly led marketing and all of those other things.

But I think that piece around. How do we make that regulatory environment accessible for founders, [00:09:00] for entrepreneurs, for leaders who are saying, you know what? I have empathy for an underserved audience, and we need to start recognizing this underserved audience and building products for them. I think that kind of.

Intersection of demystifying the regulatory world having empathy for underserved audiences, and then frankly, back in those businesses who are saying, you know what, we're going to innovate and we're going to innovate for an underserved audience. I think that's how you really drive more purpose within tech by allowing that kind of grassroots passion and belief that financial services can do more and can do better.

And that's what we have to believe, right? We have to believe that's possible if we're going to economically empower more people. Yes. I love that

Monica Millares: because it is a mix of three things. It's not [00:10:00] just one. It is regulation on serving underserved audience and empowering the entrepreneurs to Put it all together.

It's the ecosystem.

Sarah King:Yeah, I tend to live my life in Venn diagrams, Monica.

Monica Millares: It's... That's right. That's right. And I've operated at that

Sarah King:intersection.

Monica Millares: Okay, that explains. I

Sarah King:think it's because I'm quite a visual thinker. I love to be able to picture things. And more often than not, there is a sweet spot in the middle where you go, ah, that's where the magic happens.

Okay.

Monica Millares: Exactly. That's it.

Sarah King:It probably won't be the first Venn diagram I mentioned. Okay,

Monica Millares: we'll talk tons of Venn diagrams today. Talking about underserved mates, you are one of those examples of an entrepreneur meeting an underserved audience. Before we go into what exactly you're doing. Can [00:11:00] you demystify investments for us?

Angel investment, to be more precise.

Sarah King:Not that question. And again, it's such an important question because I think one of the key barriers to more people not counting themselves into angel investing is that there is so much myth and perception around what it means to be an angel investor. And that can be fueled by the media.

We see on TV. It also though can be fueled by the fact that where does deal flow conversations? Where do you have conversations about investment opportunities? It's probably a networking event that you don't necessarily feel like you're invited to or can attend. So we need to break that down.

The way I love to think about angel investing is It's placing your own capital. So, it's a private individual taking some capital that they have that they can afford to lose and [00:12:00] placing that capital within, within a business where they look at that business and say, you know what, I want to place a bet on that business.

I want to place a bet on that business existing in the future. And I'm going to place not only my capital, But ideally, my wisdom and my cheerleading and my network to support that business to be successful. There are no guarantees with angel investing in terms of return. It's a high risk asset class.

And that's why that framing of placing a bet on the type of business that I want to see exist in the world. That just really works for me as a this is what I'm doing. Like I'm stepping into a space where yes, it's high risk. But I really believe in that business. I really believe in the problem that it's trying to solve.

And I really believe in those founders to be the leaders who can make that, business, that product, that service successful. [00:13:00]

Monica Millares: I totally know. I'm like, I'm saying too much. I totally love it. That's what I was about to stop myself.

But I'm like, no, yeah, but I loved it because you used two words that caught my attention. One was money that you can't afford to lose. Yeah. And the other one is placing a bet. Yeah.

Sarah King:Yeah. And, again, it's that intersection, right? It's yes, angel investing is risky. No one should be placing money if they can't afford to lose it.

But where you place that money is really important, and due diligence isn't just about looking at the financial projections of that business, looking at the traction that they've achieved. But due diligence is also about saying do I care about this problem that this business is solving?

Do I believe [00:14:00] that those founders Care passionately about solving that business because entrepreneurship is gonna heart be it entrepreneurship is hard Like those founders are gonna have days weeks months where they will be questioning. Can we really do this? The founders that keep going are the ones that really, believe in that end story that they're crafting and that they're creating.

So due diligence for, angel investors, whether you're a first time angel investor, whether you're an experienced angel investor, should be about, yes, absolutely look at the financials. Yes, absolutely look at their business model. But let's really build a relationship and understand Why does this founder really, care about this problem?

What experience do they have that means they're the right person to go out there and give it a really, good shot at solving, this problem? And again, I think that's one of the things we need to demystify around [00:15:00] angel investing. There isn't some secret rule book around how to do it.

It's about that relationship and that conversation that an angel has with a founder. To establish is this a business that I want to place a bet on?

Monica Millares: Yeah, definitely. And yeah, okay, before we go further into the conversation, we've been talking tons about angel investing and opportunities. What do you do?

What's Ubu about? What's your story? What's your purpose? Tell us more.

Sarah King:OBU exists to close the gender investment gap at scale. And we come at that gender investment gap through two lenses. Firstly through the lens of an entrepreneur. In the UK at the moment, less than 2 percent of investment is placed into businesses led by women.

If we apply an intersectional lens to that data, those [00:16:00] numbers, that... That data set plummets further. Extend ventures did some research. Erica Broadknocker extend ventures is brilliant. She led some research that identified that just 0. 024 percent of investment is placed in businesses led by black female founders.

So inequality within the investment ecosystem for entrepreneurs is. Systemic like it's, there is significant inequality now on the other side of that coin where we also have inequality is that in the UK right now, just 14 percent of angel investors are women know is that if we can diversify that angel investor population.

We will increase the level of investment that's placed in diverse founders, and I talk about UK stats, but this is a global phenomenon so, pretty much every country in the world, we see [00:17:00] these levels of inequality and so for us at OBU, we're starting in the UK, we've built a platform that brings those audiences together but our ambition is that ultimately that can scale internationally, Yeah.

Monica Millares: What made you start?

Sarah King:Gosh, so I first leapt into entrepreneurship 10 years ago. So I left my corporate career in financial services 10 years ago. And I was, that decision was driven by three key factors. And three key factors that I still check in on every year now. So the first was. My daughter was approaching school age, and the type of mum that I wanted to be, my corporate career didn't allow me to do that.

And that was a trade off that I wasn't willing to make. I work hard, I'm a grafter, as my grandparents would have said. But I wanted to have [00:18:00] control and flexibility on when and how I did those hours. That was a key driver for me. Secondly I wanted more control and influence over where and how I could have impact.

And I was starting to feel frustrated by the level of impact I was having within my corporate career. And thirdly, it comes back to this point around learning. I love to learn. I love to be inspired. I love to feel that I always have that kind of growth and momentum. And entrepreneurship gives you that in bucket loads.

Someday is more than you would really like. Yes. But entrepreneurship gives you with that opportunity to have impact and to learn and for me to work flexibly around the things that are important to me in my personal life. So I made that leap 10 years ago and those three factors still drive me today. If I can't answer yes to any one of those three factors, then I'm out of [00:19:00] sync. Awesome.

Monica Millares: And it's like a little framework that people can also reuse to be like, Hey, doesn't have to be your three questions, but it's it's a three questions that drive your career that you ask yourself every year, or they may change over time as we mature and circumstances change.

But it's more of a, what's my North star. What are my three questions?

Sarah King:Exactly that. And I think sometimes it's really easy to get caught up in the, and I guess it comes back to your first question around success, right? It's really easy to get caught, up in those external measures or those, or am I getting a promotion every year?

Or am I getting a pay rise every year? Or and, not to say those things aren't important and that they can't be goals. But actually, I think some of those intrinsic measures and understanding what's the value set that sits beneath that external measure. And let's really [00:20:00] understand that because if you can really understand that, that's when you're going to start making really good decisions about Your career, your love life, your like, whatever it might be, those values first.

Yes,

Monica Millares: totally. So coming back to the big problem statement of 2 percent of investment going to women. Can you guide us a little bit, go a little bit deeper on what are the pain points that we're seeing? Let's say if I want to become an angel investor, what's, what could be my pain point? Yeah.

Sarah King:So I think to answer this question, we have to look at the financial services sector in its entirety.

The people who are likely to be more senior and therefore likely to be decision makers are a fairly homogenous population. That's not a value statement. That's just a fact. That's just how the sector is. What that means is that products and services have [00:21:00] been developed in a certain way and largely have been developed in a way that, serves an audience that kind of look and sound the same.

Okay. And what we've said to Diverse people. And by diverse people, I literally just mean the people who don't fit that homogenous mold, is we've said, you know what, this is the product set, you either count yourself into it or you don't. Okay, and for us at OBU, our starting places are our kind of working hypothesis is If we take an inclusive design approach to angel investing, and that increases participation, then actually you can take that design approach, you can take the data, you can take the insight, and you can apply it to any financial services product to drive participation and to increase participation.

But to do [00:22:00] that well, You're starting question is fundamentally important on for us. That means you have to flip the question. So instead of asking why aren't women participating in angel investing? We look at it and we say, what can we change in the system to allow women to participate? And it's a really subtle, but it's a really important flip because it changes your answers from being focused on.

Kind of what's wrong with the women? What's wrong? Yes. Why aren't the women participating? Come on, let's let's get the women to come and participate in the way that we currently do this thing.

Monica Millares: In this game. Yeah. That it was created not for them. Exactly.

Sarah King:Exactly that. And if we accept that people have different life experiences around Money and finance and wealth.

If we accept [00:23:00] that's true, then we also have to accept that will drive a different set of aspirations and motivations and needs when it comes to finance, money and wealth. And as soon as you can identify a different set of aspiration needs and desires and motivations, you need to be designing your products differently.

And that's quite a long way to answer your question but, I think it's really important to lay that ground because when we, talk about what challenges do women experience, I think we have to look at it from a systemic perspective and say what challenges are there within the system?

How will we design the system in a way that maybe doesn't recognize those life experience and needs and aspirations and motivations, and let's get to work on that system rather than let's support the women so that they can count themselves into what already exists. Yeah. And what are

Monica Millares: the, that's a very [00:24:00] interesting approach because exactly you're flipping the problem on its head.

What are the challenges with the current system as it is?

Sarah King:Yeah if we take so that let's look at that decision to invest, okay? What we know through research, generally, the research shows us that a more male approach to investment decision making is to look at what's the financial upside for me.

So when I'm thinking about the investment opportunity, what's the potential investment sorry, the potential financial return for me of making this investment. Now, for a woman, generally speaking, the way that she will approach an investment opportunity is to say, what's the purpose of this business?

And does the purpose of this business align with something that I really care [00:25:00] about? And if it does. Do I feel that I can contribute to this business beyond just putting some money in? And if that's true, let me also look at the potential financial upside of this investment opportunity. That's a very different set of qualifying criteria.

Now, again, I'm not saying that All investors will look at those things. But the way in which we weight those things when we're evaluating an investment opportunity can look different. Not necessarily better, just different. And when we think about designing, we need to recognize that difference and say you know what?

If I'm walking into a room of senior C suite women, I'm gonna lead by talking about The impact that their capital can have on equality on the stories [00:26:00] of the entrepreneurs that might be raising investment and their purpose. And then I'll get into talking about potential financial numbers. Yeah. Yes.

Monica Millares: Yeah, I was, as you were talking, I was picturing the group of senior women and you're talking and it's yeah, that makes more sense if you want to sell. Or not sell, but yes, influence. Yeah.

Sarah King:And I think it's, I think it's a really interesting topic because leading a business that is focused on addressing intersectionality

within gender as well, you On the good days challenge, on the bad days abuse. And what I find so hard about that is, all they're doing is saying, there is a customer segment, you have a different set of needs, therefore let's design a product for

[00:27:00] that set titchy and defensive around, when you talk about the level of inequality that exists within, entrepreneurship and investment. You can receive such a lot of pushback and, challenge. And for me I, come at it and I say the data is the data. Like inequality does exist. Less than 2% of the investment is placed in female love businesses.

Solving that problem is good for our economy, it's good for innovation. Output is good for a whole range of reasons. Let's just embrace the fact that there's a customer segment here that we're not serving. Let's get to work on serving that audience. It's as simple as that.

Monica Millares: Definitely. And I'm going to come to the other side of the question.

We have the question and the problem statement, and now the solution. So what are you doing to solve this problem?

Sarah King:So we have we are building a FinTech. And I [00:28:00] always describe it, it's a bit like a dating app. So on the one side we have early stage entrepreneurs who are raising in the region of kind of 200 to 500,000 pounds.

So an early stage investment round. We take those businesses through a due diligence process to ensure that they're right for our platform. And then we bring those successful entrepreneurs into, our tech space, into our platform. On the other side we then have angel investors. We welcome all angel investors to our platform.

So first time angel investors, experienced angel investors We often get asked by guys. Can I join the platform? Yes, absolutely. You can because we're not solving gender inequality isn't just a woman's issue. We need everybody to lean in and participate in closing that gap.[00:29:00]

Importantly, though, the step before the platform, particularly for first time angel investors, is that We go into corporates and we provide education and know how on angel investing so that we can start to demystify and remove some of those barriers for potential angel investors. We also host a community on LinkedIn where people can join for free and receive inspiration and know how and join us for fireside chats either with entrepreneurs or experienced angel investors just so that we can start to Increase and improve the dialogue around angel investing, what it is, why you might do it, how to do it.

But fundamentally, our FinTech is that platform where we bring those two audiences together and we facilitate and enable that entire investment journey. Yes.

Monica Millares: And you have the platform and you also have something called the collective. [00:30:00] Yes. What is the

Sarah King:collective? Yeah, so the collective is the group that I mentioned that we host on LinkedIn.

And again for us If we are going to increase from 14 percent the number of women angel investors in the UK, we have to begin by providing know how, providing inspiration, providing the opportunity to connect. And for us, that's what that LinkedIn group is about. We host it on LinkedIn because we know that's where a lot of our target audience hang out.

We're seeking. angel investors, potential angel investors who not only have capital that they could place in an early stage business, but have what we call capital plus. So capital, yes, but know how networks and cheerleading that they can really plug into that business as well. And for us, LinkedIn was the perfect place to host.

that collective, the OBU [00:31:00] collective. It's a free space to join. We host fireside chats. It's just an opportunity to learn together.

Monica Millares: Can anyone join or is it just for UK based women?

Sarah King:No it's, open to everybody. So if anyone is curious to learn about angel investing then, come and join us. It's a space that is open to everyone.

And we really celebrate that, diversity of First time angel investors, aspiring angel investors, experienced angel investors, where those people can bring those lessons and they can learn together.

Monica Millares: Beautiful. And coming back to the platform, you said that in the platform you also look at the investment journey end to end as such.

If we step back a little bit, not just about OBU, but like investment journey for women in general, what do you think are the... The pain points in the current journeys that we see across the industry. [00:32:00] Yeah.

Sarah King:I think a lot of it stems back to that point around empathy on having understanding for what someone's experience and therefore, what are their questions likely to be?

What are their concerns likely to be? An example for us where we've deliberately created change on the back of that insight is on our shareholders agreement. So we on our platform for any businesses that close in rounds on our platform, we provide a shareholder's agreement. In our product development stage, we worked with a legal team to draft that shareholder's agreement, and it basically translates legalese into plain English, because often you can look at a shareholder's agreement and think I don't understand half of the clauses in there.

What do these words mean? That can be a meaningful barrier for someone if they haven't angel invested before, and there's no [00:33:00] reason for it to be that complex. So that was an example where we said, you know what, that's a barrier. There is no reason why that barrier can't be removed, whilst at the same time still protecting all of the parties and ensuring that is a legal document that is set out well and does everything that it needs to.

But we can make it more accessible. And I think that's an example, coming back to my point around regulated environments, where in our case, the FCA, there's real value in them understanding the experiences of those who are underserved within the financial services sector, because we've had conversations around, we want to put this into plain English, we want to make this more accessible, and the minute you use accessible within a regulated environment, that can create some nervousness because it's hang on, angel investing isn't right for [00:34:00] everybody. And of course it isn't. You have to have capital that you can afford to lose. But for those people who are in that financial position, we can still ensure that process is designed well for them in a way that is accessible and therefore means this environment is more inclusive.

Monica Millares: Yes. Now that you talk about that like, I was just hearing in my head the regulator saying no, but angel investment is not for everyone.

Sarah King:Yeah. Yeah.

Monica Millares: How do you decide if you can afford to lose that money or not? How does someone decide if they are suitable to become an angel investor?

Sarah King:Yeah. So a couple of ways to answer this question.

I think. I think your question highlights the importance of financial education from childhood and let's be really honest. That is something that our education system doesn't deliver across the [00:35:00] world, right across the world. So there is a real lack of financial education for young people. And obviously that then translates into into adulthood.

Now, again, there are some great financial education platforms. Financial female investor examples where they're going out into the world and they're educating people more generally around finances. So, I think the first part of the question is we need more financial education just generally, and that needs to be a priority.

I think secondly and it's one of the reasons we decided to make our proposition a fintech and to become a regulated business, so When you are making a financial decision and you're considering placing capital in this way There is a vulnerability around that because we know that [00:36:00] angel risking is high risk you could lose that money for us this angel investment space Needs the rigor that regulatory environment provides to give protections to customers.

And so for us in our world, that means we do due diligence on businesses. It also means we do due diligence on angel investors. So we carry out anti money laundering checks, KYC checks, maybe a customer checks on angel investors when they want to place investment. Now that's fairly unusual. within that angel investing space.

But again, that's all about protecting customers and helping customers to make good decisions and protecting customers on both sides of that and angel. I think though, that if an individual is considering making an investment. It's about looking at their finances, looking at their future financial position and really evaluating.[00:37:00]

Can I afford to lose this money? Can I afford to lose it today? And if I don't have it in 12 months or in two years time, is that going to cause me a problem in the future as well? Because as we've already said, angel investing is high risk. You in

fact, the likelihood is that you will because more startups failed than succeed. I think what this opens up though is a really interesting question around returns. When you angel invest, what return is it that you're looking for? And that return isn't always financial.

Monica Millares: And when it comes to the financial return, oh, this is a huge question, but it's, are you expecting, I don't know, 5%, 10%, 100% What's the rule of thumb?

Probably there's not one, but

Sarah King:it's tricky because there isn't really one kind of different sectors will have different sector averages. What's really important [00:38:00] for an angel investor is that they're having a conversation with the entrepreneurs of that business to look at what are your projections?

What are you hoping for in terms of return? At what point in time might you be thinking that exit point that that milestone might happen but particularly with early stage investing, honestly, you have to take all of that with a bit of a pinch of salt. Because no entrepreneur has a crystal ball.

No entrepreneur can control their external environment, either positively or negatively. And again, that's why it's really important that we have this education around angel investing, so that people go into it with their eyes open, and to my earlier definition, to acknowledge and accept that what they're doing is placing a bet.

There is no guarantee that business will be successful. But what we're doing as a group of angel [00:39:00] investors when we invest in that business and we coalesce around that business is we're saying, but you know what, I accept that risk. I accept that I may lose all of my money, but I still want to give this business a shot.

And for me if I think about return. As an angel investor ultimately you hope that event, that exit event will happen at some point in the future and you will get your return. However, if you are placing your capital in a business that is purpose led, and therefore, on that business's journey to that exit event, they are providing returns, whether that be people, whether that be purpose, whether that be planet, Then you're actually starting to reap those returns along that journey to the exit point so for us, an investor could look at us and say you know what, on their journey to an exit.[00:40:00]

They changed government legislation and made angel investing more accessible for more diverse entrepreneurs and more diverse angel investors. That's a win. That's a return. And I'm going to bank that. And if I hadn't have invested in that business, that might not have happened. And I think that's one of the things that we need to demystify and have more conversation around.

That return isn't just about money.

Monica Millares: I, really like that. I hadn't thought about it like that. Usually we think return and it's it's my money return. Yeah. So as we approach the towards the end of the episode, usually I, like talking about the challenges around product, but I've discovered the more and more I talk with fintechers, it's not about product.

It's all about culture. Culture is behind product. That's it. So in my opinion, one of the [00:41:00] key pillars of creating a culture that supports innovation is psychological safety. Yeah. How did you go about creating psychological safety?

Sarah King:So I'd love to share an example with you actually from the world of angel investing.

And then I'll talk a bit about what we do here. So I completely agree with you for people for there to be growth. People need to feel psychologically safe. And that means I can expose the things I don't know, or I can expose the things I don't understand. I can fail, and together we can learn from that failing.

And, that, those are some of the kind of dimensions when we talk about psychological safety. What we found working with... Senior women in corporate positions and holding spaces, holding safe spaces for them to come and learn [00:42:00] around about angel investing a narrative that we keep hearing is I know that some of my male peers of investing, I hear them talk about it.

I have so many questions, but I don't want to ask them because if I ask my questions, I'll expose a knowledge gap. And if I expose a knowledge gap, I'm fearful that will raise questions about my ability to do my role. Oh. And that, that, I was going to say that's the perfect example of psychological safety.

It's the antithesis of that. It's the opposite of that. But it's for people to learn and for people to grow, we have to hold spaces. We have to design spaces where questions can be asked. Without a fear of judgment and an acknowledgement that is the only way we grow, that we evolve, that we enable innovation.

So, for us at OBU, that's a [00:43:00] story or an insight that we really hold on to. Not only when we are serving our customers, but when we think about our own internal culture and our own internal. Values. As a leader, exposing the things that I don't know, and that I don't understand, making it okay for my team to ask questions, making it okay for all of us to get things wrong, and equally, making it the responsibility of all of us to grow and develop together.

So, as a team, we have our 1 percent job. Every week we load into Slack the, 1 percent incremental gains that we've identified that we've spotted. And every week those incremental gains get put into a Kion jar. And as a team we vote on the one that we love the most. And that person gets a four [00:44:00] finger KitKat.

like it's a top notch prize. Yes, of course it is. And they also though, they get to keep that jar on their desk for the week. And it's just this kind of it's fun, it's playful, which are really important ingredients for innovation. But it's just a way for us to acknowledge that, you know what, it doesn't matter how small, it doesn't matter if it comes from a mistake.

We all have responsibility for learning and growing together. And it's that kind of symbology of the JAR. It's us sitting together as a team every week that enable us to embed that value and that culture within our team.

Monica Millares: Yeah, I like the JAR. The 1 percent JAR. Yeah, it's

Sarah King:a great job. And everyone wants that KitKat every week.

Really?

Monica Millares: Oh, KitKat is good.

Sarah King:Awesome. I should say there are other chocolate [00:45:00] biscuits.

Monica Millares: It's been a really interesting conversation. Thanks so much, Sarah. Where can we find you? And obu, of course.

Sarah King:Yes. So I am always happy to connect with people on LinkedIn, so Sarah King on LinkedIn. Also though, you can visit our website, obu invest.com obu spelled OBU invest.com.

We're also predominantly either on Instagram or on LinkedIn. And our obu Angel Collective group is also hosted on LinkedIn.

Monica Millares: Amazing. And then one very last question that I love asking everyone in the episode. If you were to change one thing in fintech, just one thing that could make the lives of customers, employees and shareholders better, what would that be?

Sarah King:Really straightforward answer for me. Fund diverse fintech founders. [00:46:00] Let's start putting our money where our mouth is. Let's back diverse entrepreneurs within financial services, because that's how we're going to drive inclusion and participation. It's how we drive greater innovation output, greater economic output.

And it has to start with funding. We need to start backing more diverse entrepreneurs. Awesome. Do you have

Monica Millares: a... FinTech startups in your platform.

Sarah King:Do you know, not at the moment, but if any diverse founded FinTech entrepreneurs are listening, then come and talk to us. We would love to talk to you.

Monica Millares: Perfect. Because it's a good, it's a good way to like close that circle, starting with

Sarah King:examples. Absolutely.

Monica Millares: Awesome. It's been an amazing pleasure, Sarah. Thank you so much for all your time and generosity.

Sarah King:Really great to talk to you, Monica. I can't wait to chat again.

Monica Millares: Yes, likewise. [00:47:00] Everyone. Thank you.

And see you next week. Ciao. Ciao.