Welcome to the REI Masterminds Network, where

host Jack Haas gathers amazing stories from leaders in real

estate investing. In each episode, our guests will tell you what

they're doing that works, what they've tried that failed. And best

of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real

estate investing to the next level. Now, here's

Jack with another value packed episode. Grant

Shipman joins me here today, and you can learn what

his team is up to by going to livings.com/mastermind.

That's gonna be a clickable link in the show notes. We're gonna be talking

about co living today, and, this is kind of an interesting

vertical in the real estate world. So thanks for joining me.

Well, JD, it's an honor to be here. I love talking about co

living. It's the newest biggest thing that, people

still don't know about. Right. Because once people start to hear about something

it's possibly in the past. And so I love it. It's my passion.

So thanks again for not just making a quality show, but also for bringing

me onto it. This is really great. So this is kind of an

interesting vertical. I see this in my market quite a bit because we're a big

college town. We see co living situations, but

not positioning it as an investor. Could you talk a

little bit about how you found your way to this particular

niche? Yeah, it was one of those beautiful

accidents as so many things are right. I got hooked on the

idea of financial freedom because I

call it my dream babe magical journey. I wanted to find my dream

girl and get married when I have kids, but I wanted the financial

freedom to enjoy them. So I started learning about real estate,

right? It's pretty much the easiest, surest,

safest way to financial freedom. And what I found when

I went to look at a house was that there

was another house on the same property.

And so I went to see this. I was the normal, normal Joe

investor. I found my financial freedom number. I thought if I work hard and make

$200 per door in 10 years, everything goes

right. I too can be financially free, you know, and that was a long

time, but I was committed. But when I came to this house with

my relitter, I was delivering dominoes out of a shitty

Prius. I was renting a room and the lender I called,

cause I was supposed to build my team, right? The lender lender laughs at

me. Like you can't, you gagging the house. I'm like, all right, we're just going

to keep going. Well, I went to this and what happened?

What was this like to any moment was I thought,

how do I lease this place out? So, I ran

some dummy ads to see demand. I saw I could put

both houses on one lease, each house on its own lease. And

I thought, well, how about I could also lease it out by the

room. And so in the next 48 hours,

I had gotten at least 10 times the response for the

rent by the room. And when I spoke with my real

estate mentor, he goes, Grant, everybody knows

rent by the room has high revenues, but by the

end of the month, your profits have disappeared and your management headaches

are way above what you want. Long term. That's why people don't do it

typically, unless they feel called to it. What was different for me

is that for 20 years, I had lived,

with hippies, with the intentional living community. These people who are

the OGs of strangers sharing the

house, not because they can't afford to because they want to. And

so, so yeah, I kind of stumbled into this thing. I got

financial freedom from that day when I found that surprise

house in the backyard. I ended up not getting that place. It's just

where this moment happened, the switch in my life.

But from that day, a little less than 15 months later, I had

financial freedom. 2 months after that I found my dream babe.

I married her and then we got pregnant on our honeymoon. It's just been

awesome. From an investment standpoint, you get way more for way less.

And from a renter standpoint, they get a whole beautiful house for the price

of a row. So kind of the perfect setup. It's interesting.

You mentioned doing these dummy ads. The last time I saw

that was in a Tim Ferris book, the 4 hour

work week. He recommends you doing these dummy ads

to just kind of test the market. Is that where you got that from? Or

is it just kind of come naturally? I'm not sure. I know I didn't get

it from there because I read the book after that. I wish I would have

stumbled upon that book earlier. So many things, but I think for me, it

just made sense. I didn't know. And I was very

responsible about it. Like somebody would message me. I would immediately message them

back and say, sorry, it's not available. I didn't want somebody holding their breath.

These are important. People are wanting to find where they can move to. But yeah,

I just did it and I thought, oh my gosh, everything changes now, J.

D. A house can make my first house that I got

renting it out, it would have made about $2,700 a

month and it makes $6,300

a month through Colip compared to just traditional rental. It's

astounding. Those are some big number

differences. And I mean, the the only other market that I see

people throwing numbers like that around is for,

like, Airbnbs, the short term rentals. And

that's dwindled quite a bit now because, I mean, the market is

frankly just flooded. Could you kind of break things down a little

bit as to how these numbers come about and

maybe the let's talk about your buy box a little bit

associated with these properties? Yeah, I think it'd be

good to say what co living is because

there is rent by the room strategies that have been around

forever. So, for instance, I have sober living. I have a sober living

house. I do not consider that a co living house.

There are halfway houses. There's rooming houses. That's kind of

housing for the poor. Other senior housing, like you mentioned, there's student

housing. These are all transitional housing, right?

People are only there for a certain amount of time

and usually they don't want to be there longer than they need

to. This takes a special kind of management,

extra work, all of this stuff. So, just to say my wife's in

Airbnb and like you said, that's a red ocean. It's oversaturated.

It seemed like they're trying to regulate it to death where co

living is something that's as far as property management

goes, there's no more additional work. It's a different

type of property management, but it's different from my wife with the

Airbnb. Who's paying a cleaner to come clean the hot tub. Who's

doing all kinds of little extras here and there. These are

mainstream renters who just want to live in a house

without signing the lease with a bunch of strangers. So just in the sense

of having in mind what this is, because it's definitely

like, could students live in co living?

Sure. But it's not student housing as far as how

I define co living. Could, could somebody who

is poor live in a co living house? I have plenty of people who are

in my houses who would be considered poor, but

it's different from a rooming house or a rebranded boarding

house. So, is, is that sometimes I'm confusing. I don't

explain it well enough and people have kind of an idea in their head of,

of of, you know, the, the house down the block with a bunch of people

smoking out front. Right. That's kind of like the slum nord situation

is JD. Is there anything you thought maybe I've been confusing on?

No, I think you're kind of clarifying things a little bit because when you

do, to be honest, when you said co living, the first thing came

to mind and I called that out right away is in being in a college

town. Typically what I see is, is co living situation with a

bunch of college kids, but you're actually looking at more of

long term residents who just simply enjoy the company of others and

they want to live in a house with others. Yeah.

And can you remember back when Airbnb,

like people didn't even know the name or say like Uber

people and people were like, were, were you one of those people that was like,

yeah, I'll go stay in an Airbnb or were you kind of weirded out by

it for a little while? No. Well, I, yeah, I kind of

jumped on fairly early, but then that was because I was looking for cheaper

ways to, to travel at the time. That was the

case. You would get kind of a deal. You can move, go

into, to an area and get an inexpensive place to stay for, for a week.

Now, more time, week. Now, more times than not, it's gotten a lot more

expensive. And you mentioned the regulations associated with it. My wife has 3 units in

Estes park, Colorado, which is

what you go through to get into Rocky Mountain National Park. And those things are

not cheap. I was all about it. It's a lower cost and you get a

fantastic place. It's, you know, the reason I ask is this trend,

the co living trend, it's a new thing. It actually started around

2,003. It really picked up steam about 2010,

2011, which is 1 Airbnb, Lyft,

Uber, all of these sharer economy got going. But

us individual investors, we didn't really know about it. It was

just something that's very grassroots and happening. Now, big

data that, you know, hedge fund investors, big money has

access to. They've been pouring 1,000,000 of dollars

into the co living market since 2012. That was the,

so $256,000,000 plus invested since 2012.

But they have access to data that the rest of us were just,

it's just starting to bubble above the surface. Even the term co living. When

I started my company, I called it community living homes because there

wasn't the term co living. We didn't know what to call it. I feel like

one of those things though. It's just to say it's, something, a new thing always

has to be kind of misunderstood. But the fun thing about this

phase is can people, is my wife making money on

Airbnb without a doubt who made the most money on

Airbnb, the people who got in early when it was really happening.

And that's, what's the thing with co living it. It's like I put a little

bit of work into co living and I get massive returns on

it. And I mean, that makes anybody feel fantastic. Not to mention the service

to society. Could you let's go to the buy

box? Like what type of property are you looking for

to that's ideal for this type of thing? Yeah. So, picture a

normal neighborhood, AB level neighborhood in, in a, in

a normal house in that neighborhood. It's probably going to be on the corner

lot, because you want to have plenty of parking. What I

suggest is looking at a 5 bedroom,

3 bath because this house typically can

be a 7 bedroom, 3 bath. We don't

go larger than 11 bedrooms. There are big

houses out there, some old Victorians, some fantastic, beautiful houses

that have plenty of bathrooms, plenty of all that stuff. When you go

more than 11 bedrooms, when you get to 12, there

starts to be 2 households, like 2 groups in the

house. And it's not bad. It's just a little confusing to manage.

At the same time, when you go lower than 7 bedrooms, this

might seem like a lot to people, but if you go lower than 7, it's

actually kind of challenging because responsible adults are

not home very often. They're at work, they're at the gym, they're out with

friends. And so, when you have less than 7 people, like I have a

6 bedroom and a 4 bedroom that our property management company manages,

Those have the toughest time because renters

prefer to see each other. And if you have 7 people, then usually at least

one other person has a schedule like yours. You know, these people

moved into a house because they want to see others and they just feel like

they live in a big empty house by themselves. So, yeah, normal house and

normal neighborhood, no more than 3 bedrooms per

one bathroom. And beside that, I bought everything

rent ready off the MLS with a realtor,

with conventional financing, or sometimes I've done VSCR,

but it's a really cool setup. And I would say one of the

coolest things is anybody who's into house

hacking, CoLiving puts house hacking on

steroids. So, I mean, holy cow. You can get I do a

DSCR loan. It takes me $80,000 to get the same house I could get

with 16 or $20,000 And then I just

partner with somebody and then it costs me no money. So, yeah, that's it's now

with buy box. Is there anything else that you think would be helpful or did

I cover the main points? No, I think you covered the main points

there. You mentioned that you're in Colorado. Is that your primary

market? Yeah. We're we're Colorado and in

Texas. And then we just got into Jacksonville, Florida as well.

But Colorado is where I, where I started. Okay.

So, and we're gonna later half of this show. I'm I'm gonna

put you on the spot, and we're gonna kinda go through the numbers here a

little bit so we can have an idea as to how how this

works. But before we get into it, I wanna remind everybody again,

you could learn more about this in detail by going to livingsmithpro.com/mastermind.

Livingsmithpro.com/mastermind. I'm gonna have that

as a clickable link in the show. If you found some value in what

we're talking about so far, do us a quick favor, share this with one of

your investor friends. And if you're watching us on

YouTube, give us a quick like and subscribe.

So, Brad, we can we can go in a number of

directions here. Now I'd like you to kind of run

through the numbers if you wouldn't mind. Like, let's

let's say, and, you know, I hate to give this typical, but since you're

in 3 different markets, I'm sure the numbers are kind of all over the place

on some of this, but you you're mentioning, you know,

$23100 rent versus I think you

were even in the $56100 rent in some

situations. Could you talk a little bit about how you price

these rooms and how some of these numbers kind of flush out?

Yeah. Yeah. And, in the room, the room rental

rate is very, is actually a really independent thing

from, normal just single family residence

market rate or for that matter, apartments, anything. So to say pretty

much any market you're in. So say Jacksonville, you

know, is a lower cost market where I'm going to buy that same house

in Denver, Colorado area. So, Jacksonville houses, I've got one

under contract right now for 420,000. I was to buy

that in the front range, Denver, Colorado, all of that area, that would cost

me around 750 thousand. So if I I'm going

to get a lot more cash flow in one than the other, but that

being said, room rates are going to be about the

same. They're always going to be between 700

and a $1,000 even if you're downtown Boulder

or Austin. But usually, they're going to

be 750, 800, or 850.

So, the easy way to know if you just look at a house

that, anybody listening, if you have a house for reds, or if

you're underwriting the house or analyzing the house to see if you want to buy

it, just take the number of 4 bedrooms and

multiply it by $750 And if

that amount of income because your expenses are going to be

virtually the same, same mortgage, more or less, same

utilities, same taxes, etcetera. But if that's

compelling enough to dig into co living, then

boom. A great thing to do is just to do it traditional. Right. But if

you get one of these houses that can crush it for you in co living,

I mean, we're talking 5 to 10 X, the, the

profits, right? Because revenue might be 2 to 3 X, but the profit

is. Well, one of the things

that's interesting me here is that in a traditional, at least in my market,

the traditional single family home as a rental,

you know, I'm talking about maybe on the high side,

$300 a month in net cash flow that could get

wiped out if the AC goes out. Or is So you're you're kind of in

a more of a unique situation here when you're renting by the room and and

the dollar amounts here are actually pretty striking. Can

you talk a little bit about the difference there as to what

do you provide as the landlord and what is on the

residence? Because I would have to think that there's some shared expenses or

something going on here. Yeah. What are great questions.

There's going to be about $50 of expenses a month, not at

max, I should say, $50 a month. So, what we do when we

set up a house and a house setup is very important because

we set up these houses. So, they mostly run themselves. The kind

of quality renter that is going to move in and turn that

home into a cherished place they love and don't want to leave.

That's the kind of person who really does want to run their own

household, right? This group of people living together, they want to make it

easy on. They don't want you micromanaging. They don't want somebody who's

running an Airbnb house that's stopping by and dropping off chocolates. It's like,

no, this is their house. But as far as the setup goes and

what works the best is all of the common areas. So,

everywhere besides the private bedrooms are furnished. Just

think with common, pretty normal stuff. I usually get used

furniture, used kitchen tables, that kind of stuff. It's easy to pick up. It's usually

closer than going to the store. And then there's going to be storage shelves that

get put in the garage because you don't want to have everybody have to keep

all their stuff in the room. And then, you know, anything that's in the

common areas. So for instance, toilet paper or

kitchen utensils, that kind of stuff is going to be

provided by the investor, the homeowner, or

the property management company. So they're going to provide those. They're

going to keep an eye on them, but really the house members are going

to take care of the stuff. They're going to clean the house. They're going to

use the lawnmower. They're going to do all of this stuff because that's

part of the joy of them getting to be in a house. When you're at

your house, maybe not everybody wants to mow the lawn, but 1 or 2 people

in the house are probably going to be fighting about mowing the lawn. And that's

why if you drive by one of these co living houses, the only thing,

ah, you would notice is it's probably the best lawn in the neighborhood. Right? Because

when you have 7, 8 responsible adults, that house is clean.

That house is a great yard and they might be the ones throwing a little

block party for the neighbors. Right? This is something that where neighbors either don't know

about it. They don't notice it, or they particularly enjoy

it. You mentioned that it's kind of a utopia

situation with these tenants, but with that many people too, you're going to run

into some conflict. How do you handle that?

And I'm sure there's going to be some complaints about so and

so is not holding their end up with a bargain here.

Yeah. I call what you just asked the $256,000,000

question, or I should say $226,000,000 Basically, how

do you get people who get along? There was back when I was managing my

own properties. Now I have a property management company that does it,

but in 2018, when I was still the one going to the

houses, get everything set up, there was this guy

who called up and he said that he regrets to inform

us that he lives with Satan and in

Satan's name is Tim. And so, right. This Tim was an,

another house member, right? A co renter. And,

this guy's name was John and he just like, you gotta get Tim out of

here. He's an awful guy and all of this stuff. Right. And then it wasn't

surprising that I also got an email a day or 2 later from

Tim. Tim said he also lived with the antichrist and

that guy's name is John. Well, that following Tuesday,

and this was in Longmont, Colorado for anybody familiar there, the kind

of the good tacos there, but they went to Taco Tuesday together, and they've been

going to Chalky Tuesday. As far as I know to this date,

they are like best buds. And do you know what

happened between taco Tuesday and, you

know, when they were messaging the property management about, you

know, the other being, being like Lucifer?

Somebody took the other person's hot sauce.

Well, I have no clue what happened. And this is a really important

thing to anybody who wants to manage co living

properties is that these guys,

just like every human everywhere, when a

relationship is forming, it doesn't matter how superficial, whether it's

a coworker, but somebody you're regularly around enough,

there has to be a little bit of friction. Otherwise, you will never

have trust or mutual appreciation. That's almost without fail.

And so, conflict is actually not a problem. It

means that good things are happening in the house. But if the

property manager steps in and tries to help,

1, they need to butt out. It's not their business. 2, it's

taking the property managers like time. That's

exhausting. But the third thing and the most important thing is

the property manager is robbing these guys

from the ability to work it out themselves when

conflict happens and you work it out yourself, it not only builds

that relationship, but like individually, you just

feel fantastic. You're like, I thought that was the end of the world.

And in regards to that circumstance, the $226,000,000

question is there's as far as all of this co living

hedge fund investing is there's been, I think, 7 companies that

have totaled 226,000,000 that have failed because

they keep trying to solve tenant conflict with software

or they set up this one company set up a 24 hour a day

hotline, where if you are in a conflict with the person you're renting

with, you can call them. Could you imagine getting a call at 2

am from strangers you've never heard of that are in a fight because they

rent a house together. Like, cool. Right. But, yeah, so just

to say the I get that I should answer real, like how do

I do this? It's not because I, you know, have a magic, you know, conflict

resolution wand. It's when I lived with the hippies for 20 years, the

intentional living community, the hippies, communes, co op world,

they have ways to resolve conflict. I adopted a thing called the 5

15 process. It's a 10 minute conversation that people have

between themselves and the household handles that the property

management company doesn't. So do our houses have

conflict in them? Well, of course you need conflict,

but does it, is that conflict become a problem? No, because the

households figure it out. And if there's a person who's not willing

to do their part and they kind of become a bad apple, then that

household will remove that person. So, Hey, it keeps the

household safe and the property manager doesn't have to pour their time down

the drain. You kind of led me into what I

was gonna ask you next. Were you just mentioned the household

can remove that individual. What type of power or

authority do you give the tenants to actually make

these type of decisions on finding their next roommate or in

this case, actually removing somebody who may be a consistent problem?

Yeah. So, well, there's this one gal, her

name's Lori. She's been in that. I think she moved in like 8

years ago. And when she moved in,

what did she most want to? Was it the property? Well, yeah, but she

wanted to see who she was going to live with. So what we have is

we always have a house member give the tours. This saves us time.

A house member met Laurie, showed her around. Laurie saw

the chore board hanging on the dining room wall. Okay. We all do 20 to

60 minutes chores a week. And Laurie's like, holy smokes. That's why this

place seems so clean. And then it also blew Laurie's mind because

the house was quiet. It was great, and there was 10 people living

in the house. Like, holy smokes. And so you're asking

about how do housemates have a do do they have a

a say in who moves in basically this person that gives the

tour, they then text back to the property manager, just

a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Right? So the property manager is

not discriminating. They're they're, they're not violating any rules. They're

doing the exact same thing with every person. And if this person who

does the tour gets a thumbs up, it says that person fits, you know, and

as long as they pass the background checks and just our normal best

practices and in screening residents, then they get offered a lease. And

then as far as, you know, with Lori, right? She had a great experience

because she had to meet somebody in the house. She saw the house. She loved

that there was chores. She didn't want to have to do all the cleaning. Right?

And so she moved in there and she now become that person who

gives tours. They're just a volunteer because then they, they kind

of, they kind of, the house trust that person to,

you know, to, to pick out good people. This person doesn't, they're not a manager.

They don't have extra responsibilities or authority, but they do have, you

know, they represent the house's interest. If a person would be a

good fit or not. You know, early on, we talked about the

regulations that are kind of, strangling the short term rental

market a bit. Do you see Thing like

that coming your way regarding this, or is there anything

that we should be aware of before we attempt this in

our local markets? Oh, it is. So here's, what's

amazing. Like the power of

legislation trends, which is just working terrible

against Airbnb. It's actually the

opposite in regard to co living is now there's a

legislation trend that is absolutely

protecting co living. So, for example, in Colorado,

before I would have said, hey, you know, make sure and we have a chat

GPT cheat code that you can find out how many unrelated

adults can be in place because when you do your due diligence, you know, this

is one extra step to find out, make sure you're being legal,

but effective July 1st this year,

every law that could limit co living has been

banned in Colorado. This has happened in Oregon and Washington and

Iowa and New York and California

cities like in Austin. Let me see. I think

Madison. But just to say this legislation trend is

so it's perfect for co living because people

realize, holy moly, like we have

housing inventory shortage and co living doesn't

just talk about eventually building something, eventually

fixing something. It immediately is a

solution. So, yeah, as Airbnb is getting beat over the head by

legislation, for us co living investors, We're just

riding this wave. We're like, and this kind of legislation is

happening in city councils and up to the state level, all over

the place. I can't help, but notice that a lot of the states that

you listed there are in obvious issues

around housing shortages, as well as let's

face fact, the economy isn't the best right now with buying a

house yourself or even rental prices in an apartment.

They're probably people are looking for cheaper

ways to live. Yeah. So there's 2 things I've noticed

with people who rent in co living. Some

are looking for cheaper places to live because they themselves

are having financial problems. And this is what's rad

about co living is you can provide

lower cost housing without

making it affordable housing or making it like housing for the

poor. We have people who this one gal actually who I mentioned, Lori,

nobody knew it, but us as property managers knew it. She was

homeless the 2 years before she lived in a car with her 2 cats.

And that's not because she was unskilled or irresponsible

person. The number one cause for homelessness is housing prices. And she

lives in a house where there's a civil engineer and a college

professor on the HVAC technician. I haven't checked up on the house

since then, but to say is that is the case. But the other thing that's

happening as well is people are realizing,

man, I could spend this money on housing and I could

afford it. They could even live by themselves and even live in a

nicer house, but they would rather spend money

on travel or not have to work as much overtime

or all of these things. Like basically they're choosing to spend their

money elsewhere. And that's a thing that I think has happened because of the

economy, even those of us with more money are

valuing things different ways. Just to remind everybody one more

time, head over to living smithpro.com/mastermind.

That's living smithpro.com/mastermind.

There is a lot to unravel here. In fact, you're going

to be putting on something on December 9th this year to help people with

this. Can you talk a little briefly about that? Yeah. Thanks for

having me do that is so co living just

like anything that's powerful. It can make

people a ton of money and provide massive service,

but just like with real estate, leverage is so powerful in real

estate, but if people don't understand it, they can really get

themselves in trouble. And I would say that same thing with co living. Co

living is not, it doesn't work with traditional property

management. It doesn't work with say short term or mid term property

management. This is a new type of thing. It is managing a

household of individuals. And so we're putting

on a a free training. It's 5 days. It's 1 hour a

day in the evening and me and my teaching team, we're just

going to bring the absolute most. We're going to show you show

people how to that chat CPG code, as far as like, does this work with

their regulations and you know, how I bought my first seven properties with

not a penny of my own. And, and in what systems do

you put in place and what furniture and how does the mail work and what

about overnight guests or what about cameras or watch all of

these questions that come up. How do you set up a house? So it really

runs itself and people thrive. The other cool thing in that link

is there's a book in there. It's normally $28 on Amazon, but you can

download it. Anybody who's listening to this and it's written by our

renters because the best thing you can do if you want to make money

is get to know your target market and people love this book.

So yeah, we've got this free buy big training and I'm always having to like,

people are keeping asking questions once the hour has passed. And I'm always

like, hi, I've got to, you know, take off to put my 2 boys to

bed, but it's so exciting. It's just a really fun time

for co living. Everybody wants it and it kind of absorbs a lot

of the learning curve in the beginning because there's such a high cash flow.

Yeah. You can learn more of that again at livingsmithpro.com/mastermind.

Grant, Is there a question or concept you wish we would have covered

before we jump into the rapid fire? Wow. I think, you

know, Tony Robbins says that the quality of a person's life depends on

the quality of the questions they ask and be great, ask great questions. So now

that we cover stuff a long time, but like you said, we could keep talking,

you know, all this stuff's fun. Yeah, this is especially interesting.

So I I'm probably going to have to, check out your event

myself to that endless a little bit more.

But if you're ready, we'll jump into the rapid fire questions and close out this

episode. I'm ready. Let's do it.

What lie do real estate investors sometimes tell themselves?

That buying a house is not worth it right

now. If you could go back in time and give your younger self

one piece of advice, what would that be? Biden, the urge

to say, check out real estate earlier. I think my

younger self, would have been

to chill out and chill out. It's going to work out.

What book would you recommend? This is my all

time favorite real estate book. It is called loopholes in real

estate by Garrett Sutton. And what I learned from him

just all across the board, I think has made it where for

me, my assets are safe and my real estate investing.

He really got me caught up on best practices. Yeah. And

Garrett was just on the show. So just go a couple episodes back and you'll

see him and his son, has a great conversation.

And then lastly, what single strategy process or tool

have you implemented that has had the biggest time saving impact to you

or your business? JD, I've gotta rise Garrett because

he's his Sutton Law is like my main attorney that I

use. And so anyway, that's really cool. I missed that episode. So that's really

rad. Shoot. Now I got so thrown off by that. What was the question you

asked again? What single strategy process or tool have you

implemented that has had the biggest time saving impact to you or your

business? So Asana or any kind of

project management software planning my week out ahead of time.

Ideally, I only work 3 days a week, 5 hours a day,

6 months a year. But I can actually do the things that I want

to. And at the end of the workday, I feel like that was

excellent. And if I didn't get to everything, that's fine because I have a

plan so I can change that plan. So anything Asana's free,

other things are free, but task management software for the win.

So one thing that I I gotta we gotta spend a couple minutes on there

is that you just said that you spend 5 hours a day, 3

days a week, and that's the financial

freedom that I actually think people are trying to find.

Could you talk a little, just spend a few minutes talking about the

perils and the work that it took to get to that point,

because I feel like there's a lot of people that run

ads and, make it sound like real estate is just mailbox

money. And it's the simplest thing in the world. But talk about

the heavy lifting that happened prior to that, to this point.

Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest heavy lifting for me

was really some mindset stuff. I didn't, I grew, when I grew up, my

parents were on boot stamps, that kind of thing, but just realizing

that I can do something, but then having the audacity to

do it. But in the beginning, when I was getting started, I

moved maybe 26 times in

2 years. And that had to do with a form of investing we do

called beyond house hacking with co living. But I didn't have a

truck. I told you, like I had the shitty Prius, so I had to get

furniture. So I had strapped stuff to the top of the Prius, right?

Like it's just making things work. But I would say the biggest

thing is that real estate has been done for so

long that it's easy to follow others

and putting in the work is not tough as long as

you're getting the results. And so, yeah, it took

me, what was it? So for me, it was 15 months to

get financial freedom. I kind of got lucky because of the whole living with hippies

and the living thing. But that was, I

mean, every hour I was on it. Right. I was a lonely single guy. I

was just working my guts out because at a certain point I wanted to have,

you know, what I have. And to emphasize, it's not just the 3 days a

week, 5 hours a day. That's only 6 months a year. And now it just

worked because I really enjoy it. And that's what, and when that

switches, because works great. Like if you get to do what you enjoy,

works great. In real estate, if whether it takes somebody 15 months or

10 years, that financial freedom is worth

whatever number of hours somebody puts into it, if that's what you

want. So that's my best on that. Well,

a great way to end this episode, Grant. I really appreciate it.

One last time living smithpro.com/mastermind.

And, really appreciate your time here. This was a great conversation. I hope you'll

consider coming back again sometime. I would absolutely love to be

invited back anytime. Thanks again for putting this quality show out here as this

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