Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy

entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective

solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance.

I'm Matthew Passi, your host and a 15 year veteran in the podcasting

space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and

hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly

for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and

strategies for podcasting success. Head to podcasting tech dot

com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform

and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full potential of your

podcast. Gonna try something a little bit different today. We

are chatting with Joe Casa Bona. He's a podcast system

coach at podcastworkflows.com, and he

is all into how automation and software solutions can help you

with your podcast. Joe, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks

for having me. I'm really excited to be here. We are excited to have you.

So before we jump into your, you know, system workflows and automation

and whatnot, how did you arrive in the podcasting space?

Well, I originally arrived in the podcasting space,

around 2010, something like that. I

was hanging out with a bunch of my friends. We were talking about a bunch

of different topics outside of our area of expertise.

And I said, how do you guys know so much about things

we didn't go to school for or whatever? And, they mentioned that they listen to

podcasts, so I started really digging into podcasts. I enjoyed it.

And, like many people, many tech oriented people, I guess, back,

in 2010, I listened to a bunch of podcasts and then

thought I should do this. So I started my first podcast about

18 months later. What was that podcast about? It was

called the TIL podcast. So TIL for

some of our younger listeners means today I learned. It is it has been

replaced by I was today years old when I learned this,

And it was me and a bunch of friends talking about things that

we didn't really know anything about, but talked about it anyway.

Very, very typical early 20 tens

podcast. I think it was just like, ah, we'll talk about

Bitcoin. What does that mean? It was not a very popular

podcast. It was like 5 people. It was a panel show,

and I'm a bad moderator. So but I I

learned the technical details of podcasting from from that

experience. And so where has that taken you to

today in terms of podcast that you host or produce or work

on? Like, what What's your what's your podcasting

resume looking like these days outside of the podcast workflows.com?

Yeah. So I, I really did enjoy that experience, and I'm

an extrovert. And I was working at home, and I was moving away. So I

started a proper podcast in 2016. It was called How I Built It.

It's, today it's called Streamline Solopreneur. I

finally decided, to seed the name to,

How I Built This, which launched about 3 months after me.

Yeah. I know. It was rough, and I was sad. But I I

interviewed developers on that show, and so I I I would always say, like,

so how did you build it? And so I I didn't wanna let go of

the name. Today, I talked to busy solopreneur

parents on the streamline solopreneur, about how

they can optimize their business and their time so they can spend

more time with their family. On the more niched

side of that, I have podcast workflows, which also has a podcast,

where I basically do the same thing through the lens of podcasting.

So as you probably know, podcasting is a very time consuming

thing or can be, and so I try to save

podcasters' time where I can.

And so yeah. So I have 2 other podcasts, but those are the 2 main

ones that I'm really focused on. I have

to imagine that when you were first starting to do how I built it

and, you know, progressed through this this journey, the tools

for podcasting were not nearly as robust or as time

saving as they are today. But what were some of those early

systems that you had, before we can get into some of the more,

you know, like I said, robust platforms that are available to podcasters

today? Yeah. So, I mean, scheduling

tools might have existed, but they weren't as, let's say, ubiquitous as they are

today. And so did everything via email.

I had a because I was it was, you know, I was a

web developer in a former life, and so I had, like, a GitHub

page that I would send to the other developers that I interviewed with

and, how to record on your

own because we would talk via Skype, and

I would use Skype call recorder or Ecamm call recorder rather. Point one

out for Ecamm call recorder. And

then I would record my audio in QuickTime, and I would ask my

guests to do the same thing. So sending instructions

on how to do that and talking them through that, talking about the importance

of headphones, which I still maintain is extremely important. But,

you know, in the before time, there were no there was no way

to do echo cancellation, really. So,

I didn't record video at that time, and it was, yeah, it was a

really largely manual process. So

the the time saving stuff came really

on the other side of that where I would build

automations with Zapier or Airtable to do the

communication side of things. And then because I

was in web development, I wrote my own code

on my WordPress website to do some of the

emailing and publishing stuff. Gotcha.

Alright. So outside of the stuff that you created for yourself,

what are some of the tools today that you think

are especially for, like you said, that solopreneur, that that

podcast working on his own. What are some of those tools that have to really

expedite and and turn their podcast

systems into something way more efficient and sustainable?

Yeah. So something that like, a very conscious decision I made

when I moved out of the web development space and fully into the

podcasting space was I'm only gonna use no code tools.

Like, if I'm gonna be helping my audience,

who is nontechnical, maybe,

I'm not gonna also write code that I have to, like,

explain to them how to install and support. Right? So today,

I'm using, make.com, formerly Integromat.

Make is very similar to Zapier. I would say Zapier is

more user friendly. And so, like, I'm working on an automations course, and

Zapier is going to,

kind of be the the thing I focus on there because it is it is

a more user friendly tool. Outside of that, I think

Notion is where, like, my

home base is, my whole dashboard for the show. And, again,

I was using Airtable, and I love Airtable, and I think the

automations in Airtable are better. But

Notion is a more popular, I think, largely more user friendly

tool for a lot of people, especially if you're

you know, with with Airtable, like, I had all of the

information about the podcast episode, but, like, you can't

take show notes. There's not good formatting in,

in Airtable for, like, long form text, right, where there is in in

Notion. So I think if we're

trying to streamline the tools that we're using, I think you can

kill more birds with 1 stone,

with, like, Notion and Zapier than with, like, Notion Airtable and maybe,

like, Google Docs or something like that. So, those 2 are

really at the center of a lot of things I do. And then, of course,

there's Dropbox, and I'm using cal.com for

scheduling, but Calendly is is the most popular one

there. I tend to like cal.com better because it

is free if you're not using it for Teams,

and it plays more nicely with make.com than

Calendly does. So there are a few reasons why I made the switch

over there. But between between

those things, you can really have, like, a well oiled machine

where once I record a podcast episode and do, like, the

intro, I move it into a Dropbox folder called need

called needs editing, and I don't see it again

until, it's it's live.

Wow. I mean, I'm familiar with Notion and, I guess,

the Notion of Notion, I should say. But I I know

it's just so powerful and that it could be it could be a little daunting

to get into it and really make it work for you. Whereas Airtable

is basically just a a glorified spreadsheet system and,

you know, you know, excel on steroids as they might say. I know Notion could

do some really amazing things, and that's one I I definitely wanna look into. I

imagine too that the emergence of AI has

been a major game changer for automation and podcast

workflows that you are creating for people. Yeah. So I

am I'll tell I'll tell people I'm AI

hesitant because I think people

want to use AI to do the wrong kind of work.

It's like, oh, AI can come up with questions for my guests

for me, or, AI can make the outline for my

episode. And I'm like, no. That's the thing that you're supposed to do.

AI can certainly help you do some research on your guest,

or a topic. Right? I like I like using AI

to get other perspectives on a topic, maybe

surface something I didn't think about that AI has

learned that maybe this is worth exploring. On the other

side of things, like, yes, I do use, like, AI

tools to read the transcript and come up

with descriptions or whatever.

I've never been impressed with those, and so I will

usually just use them as, like, a jumping off point or like,

oh, that's a really I forgot about that, and I didn't write it down in

my notes. So, like, one of my custom prompts is, you

know, I here's a transcript from an episode of the

streamline solopreneur. It's been, quote, unquote, trained on

what the streamline solopreneur is and what it's about in the target audience.

The topic of the episode is and whenever the topic is, please give

me, 3 to 6 takeaways from the episode.

And usually, at least one of those takeaways will be one I hadn't thought

about that I think is worth highlighting.

So, like, stuff like that where it's like, I take notes during

my interviews, but I definitely don't catch everything because I'm

trying to actively listen or whatever, especially now that I'm, like, recording

video too. Like, it's just, like, a very bad look for me to be doing

this while my guest is talking,

and I still do it because I'm trying to take notes or, like, look up

my stuff on my document. But if I can reduce the

number of times I'm doing that, right, I think it's probably

okay. It's funny you're saying that because as you're talking, I am

actually taking notes and looking up documents and and whatnot.

So, 100% guilty. Yeah. And, like, same

still. Right? Like, I know. But, like, if it's, like if I can get to

a point because, like, I like our interview right

now. Like, my interviews are on my Elgato prompter so that I can

make eye contact when I'm talking. But as a

result, it's, like, super obvious when I'm

not looking at the camera anymore. And so,

like, I get it. Right? And I do it, but if AI

can help me in in those areas, I think it's good.

Yeah. That's that's something we've always stressed too with folks about AI tools is that

they are phenomenal. They are very helpful, but they

don't replace the human. Like,

for me, when it comes to show notes, I you know, a blank piece of

paper is just, you know,

threatening. It is it is intimidating. Right? It's like, you know, scarier

than public speaking, the way people treat that kind of stuff. But

once AI generates that first draft,

it's a lot easier for me to look at and be like, okay. Let me

tweak this. Let me edit this. Let me move this around. Oh, now it's reminded.

I wanna add this. And so AI is definitely a great

supplement to your workflow, but, you know, we're just not at a place where it

could replace human content where we need it.

Yeah. I agree wholeheartedly. And it's so funny you mentioned the blank, you know,

like, the blank screen. Right? Because, I wrote about that

in my newsletter this week as we record this,

where I talked about, like, when I was writing my master's thesis, like, just

looking at the blinking cursor in word was so

daunting. And and I

tell that story because I'm like, with segments, like, if you do segments for a

solo episode, you're not staring at a blank cursor anymore. Right?

Like, you you have kind of the broad strokes of

what you wanna talk about, and just, like, a little jumping off

point will make that content creation process easier.

And, like, having segments means that you don't feel like you need

to fill the space with one thing for 10 minutes. And so,

it's really funny you mentioned that because I I agree wholeheartedly. Like, just having

a little prompt, no pun intended, I guess,

to help you get to where you need to go is super helpful.

What about hardware? What are some of the the tools that you

use for video and audio

that give you what is a extremely crisp picture,

great sounding audio that you typically recommend to podcasters?

Great question. So my, my setup is,

again, like, I put it together pre 2020,

we'll say, right, before I think a lot of companies started

investing in making affordable, really good podcasting

stuff. And so, like, I'm using the Shure SM 7

b. I would not recommend that today

for podcasters. The Shure MV 7 is half the price,

and I suspect just as good or at

least good

good and then not appreciably worse

than the s m 7 b, we'll say. And then I I am

using the RodeCaster Pro 2, which is like a pre 2020 item. And I

just I just really like that because I do have multiple mics and different

inputs, and it looks cool on my desk probably. And when I

do solo shows, like, I have, you know, buttons assigned. And so

I do like having that. I think the main reason that I have this

kind of setup. Right? I also don't need the Cloudlifter, which is like

another piece of hardware that you would need if you have the share s m

7 b, but the RODECaster Pro supports that and then has, like,

presets for the s m 7 b. The reason I have that is

because, right when we started recording, Matthew, I don't know if you

heard, but my daughter, like, fell or something and was

screaming. Oh, no. Yeah. And she was upstairs. My wife is up there. I

didn't, she didn't didn't just, like, leave her for her own. But, you

know, she, like, ran into something and was just very upset.

And that's gonna happen frequently in my house at various times of the day because

I work from home and I have 3 small children. And one of the benefits

of my setup is that no one ever

hears that, which I really is is

good for a lot of reasons. Right? So I would say, like, what I

would recommend to most people today is if you're if you can spend $250

on the mic, the share MV 7 plus is the way to go.

If you are maybe sub 100, I would say, like, the

Samsung q two u or the a t r 21

100 x is gonna be good, and those are good like USB microphones.

Sure. M v 7 plus is a USB c, but it also supports

XLR. So if you want a little bit of extra hardware processing,

then you can also get, like, the Focusrite Scarlett solo interface or something like that,

but that's not really necessary anymore. And then for the

camera, I will recommend that if you have

an I if you're not looking to spend, like, $1,000 and you

have an iPhone, that's the way to go,

because you get just, like, an incredible picture. And if you have a Mac, that's

like there's continuity camera there. I have

the Sony a 64100

with a Sigma F 16 lens, which is

how we get like, this is not a zoom or blurring effect thing. This

is like there's the bokeh depth. Actual depth of field

we're getting here. Yeah. More important than that, I think, is is

the lighting. Right? So, like, you need, like, a couple of good lights because

then no matter what camera you have, it's not working as

hard to produce a crisp

picture. So I have my key light right in front of me. I have the

fill light over here, and then I have the backlight behind me, which

is also helping create that depth. And then as an

added bonus, I make sure that my monitor is on dark

mode when I'm recording on camera because the good

lighting plus dark mode means that it's not

I I noticed sometimes if I was demoing something from a YouTube

channel, if I switch to a predominantly

white background, the cut

like, the color in the video changed completely,

which is not something I'm sure a lot of people have to or me like,

need to think about, but it's something that I I consider as well.

Yeah. I I can definitely say I'm guilty of being in video

calls and looking up at my camera and realizing that

as I'm scrolling websites or whatever, maybe not paying

attention, My lighting is changing on me, which is probably a dead

giveaway that, I'm not really listening and, you know, you

could see all the activity just from from the lighting changes.

You know, it that that iPhone continuity camera is a phenomenal,

phenomenal hack for podcasters, especially if you're getting started. You don't

wanna spend more money on more equipment. It is free if you have a

iOS device and a and a, you know, macOS operating system. It

just works so, so well together. The one thing I found with it though was

that I was just it was so annoying to have to

mount my phone to record and

then have to remember to take it down or, you know, maybe there was,

like, something that I wanted to do on my phone at the same time that

I was doing it. And so I I actually reverted back to

using a Logitech BRIO, just so I can keep my

phone handy for for other things, but I I agree wholeheartedly. If if you don't

have a good camera and you wanna get started with high quality video, like, the

iPhone continuity camera is a great way to go.

So if somebody is hearing this and they're thinking, okay, you know, Joe,

this sounds great. These these automations, these workflows, how does somebody

engage with you? How do you help a podcaster streamline

their operation? Yeah. So, I mean, if we get

into the the nitty gritty, first of all, I know I just listed a bunch

of resources. If you go to podcast workflows.com/tech,

that's a a page that I'll create specifically for for your listeners, Matthew,

with some of the stuff that we talked about here, the the gear and the

automations and, like, my free automation database.

But, the way that I help podcasters primarily is we'll sit

down, and first, we'll talk about, what

their biggest problem is. Right? A lot of podcasters will say, like, I wanna

grow. I wanna make money. And, like,

no matter what, you need time to do that,

where a lot of podcasters will get stuck in

the all of my time is going to, like, actually

creating the content. And so I wanna help

podcasters free up their time so that they can do the things they wanna

do most while also focusing on creating good content. That's how

you get more listeners. Right? It's not the only

like, it's not the only thing you have to do, but, if

you don't have good content, you're not going to keep people.

Right? So I will sit down with a podcaster, and

I'll ask them. I have a fairly long

survey that we'll go through in, like, a discovery call where we cover every

aspect of their show. So I'll I'll usually say, like, what do you

do? Tell me everything you do for your show. And they'll say, alright. Well,

I look for guests, and then I'll book with and I'll be like, wait. Wait.

Wait. Wait. When you how do you look for guests? Where do you look for

them? How do you reach out to them? How much time do you spend

doing that? Okay. Then I'll book the guest. And then no. No. No.

Wait. Wait. Wait. How do you book with the guest, though? Do you use email,

or do you use, like, Calendly? And what do you ask them ahead of time?

Then I record with the guest. Once we record, wait. Where do you record? Right?

So, like, I want to get into the fine

details of what they're doing, how

they're doing it, what tools they're using. Because once I understand that, I

can take all of those ingredients and

bake them a beautiful save 12 hours per week

cake with the tools that they use. Right? Because that's the

other thing I try to think about is, like, you know, you mentioned

that you don't really like Notion or you haven't really looked into Notion. You prefer

Airtable. If I come to you and I'm like, well, you have to use my

Notion planner, that might immediately

dissuade you from saving time. Whereas if I'm like, I can build this

system inside of Airtable for you,

that's gonna be better for you. Right? And if someone's like, I don't have any

opinion, then I'm like, okay. Well, great. Here's here's my Notion template, and it's

it's packaged, and it's everything you need. But

if you have tools that you prefer to use, I like to also use those

tools because it's creates less friction.

Less friction creates more change, creates more

time. Yeah. And and, just, you know, we we actually

don't use air table. I tried it once years ago, and I I found it

to be limited. We're we're now with ClickUp, which,

also probably still not as robust as Notion in certain

ways, but does have incredible automation capabilities and

and can be very useful. So, if anybody ever has

questions about ClickUp, please, you know, don't hesitate to reach out. I can easily talk

about, you know, what's so great about that. So once

again, if you are hearing this and you're thinking, you know, I could really

use some help to streamline my workflow, you're gonna check out

podcast workflows.com. Again, that's podcast workflows.com.

Chatting with Joe Casa Bono. He's the podcast systems coach

at podcast workflows.com. So, Joe, I mean, it

sounds like you're already kinda doing this, but is there a

a place within the podcasting world where you'd like to see

some improvement that maybe nobody's really working on

today? Yeah. So, I mean, I think one of the reasons that

I'm really all in on this is because I've tried the

positioning of grow your podcast. Right? And I'm

like, I'm not a marketing guy, so I'm maybe not

the you know, I I grew a podcast very quickly, but that

was a few years ago now. Right? And and things have changed.

I've tried to make money with your podcast, which I can definitely still

do, but a lot of people are are doing that now.

Right? And I think that when it comes to

thinking about workflows or processes,

I there's I think there's a lot of room for growth there. Right? I think

we're really early days into the AI, and, like, I'm not anti

AI, like I said. Right? I am

I I am hesitant, and I wanted to be used for

the right thing. So I think a place where I would love to see improvement

is how can I leverage AI to

take things off of my plate

without replacing me in the content process? Because

it's not gonna be a replacement. Right? It's

it's going to be a a

worse experience or worse output. Right? I I

would never you know, if if you're writing as

if you're hired as a speechwriter for the president

of a company or of the United States or whatever, you're

not gonna have your intern write that speech. The speech is too

important for for and for someone who doesn't

have as much experience, right, as as you. So I view the same thing

with AI. I I view AI as an intern,

not as my equal. And I I think that

when we leverage when we can think about

that more in the podcasting space, it's it will help us a lot more.

That's an interesting way to think about it. Now if only the I could get,

coffee for us while we're actually podcasting. I know. That well, that would just be

swell. I actually I I saw an amazing quote one time. It said something to

the effect of, I'd much rather have AI figure out,

like, how to do my laundry, how to, you know,

like, how to take on these mundane tasks versus be used

to replace or create art. Well, like, I'd rather have more time

to do that than let AI take over that and have more time

for the mundane stuff in the world. So that's, I like the way you think

about it with that intern perspective. Right? It's not quite the pro, not quite the

master. It's helpful, but, right, it's it's not it's

not gonna take over the master's job

just yet. And I mean,

I know you said you've had your tech around since 2010, but is there any,

sorry, since 2020, is there any technology that

you are looking to get your hands on for podcasting? Whether

it's something that's out there that's just on your wish list or

maybe a a piece of equipment or software that you wish somebody

would make to streamline podcasting for you?

Wow. That's, that's a really good question.

You know, I was talking to my friend, Luis, and he was we

were talking about, like, automating to the nth

degree, just like how much could you do it.

And what I would love and I think this is within reach,

but when I record solo episodes, I don't send them off to my editor.

I use Ecamm Live, and I have a stream deck until, like, I can pause

and easily remove stuff if I need to. But, usually,

because of the segments, I don't have to cut out a lot of stuff. I

still need to process because, like, I do take, like, heavy breaths,

and I, you know, I have, like, some mouth clicking, and I hate those sounds.

And people will say, like, yeah. But, like, you make those sounds in real life,

and I say that's true, but I'm not doing it, like, right in someone's ear.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. Just so you people can enjoy exactly what we're talking about.

Yeah. Exactly. Hear him from Joe right now. Right. Yeah. I'm usually, like, feet

away from people when that's happening. Right? And not, like, right up in their

ear. So I I wanna remove that stuff, and I

have, like, this little chain in Logic Pro.

And what I would love is, like, as soon as I save a file to

a specific folder, it opens up in Logic

Pro, runs those filters, and spits

out the finalized file. And I

think you can do that with, like, AppleScript,

maybe. But it's that that is one

place that I would love to see because that would take so much

little manual like, fewer manual clicks off of

my plate. And, like, I know that people will say, like, well, there's

studio sound in Descript, and I'm like, yeah. But that it's not

my chain is dialed into my microphone and the way I talk,

and I I want that editing because that's gonna sound a lot better than

AI trying to figure out. Also, I don't know if they fixed this, but, like,

studio sound is god awful when you use an actual good mic.

Like, AI is deaf maybe they fix this, but

studio sound is for the people using the built in microphone with no

headphones. It does an amazing job of cleaning that up,

but, like, it because it makes these assumptions,

if those don't exist in the audio, it just kinda, like, fakes it.

Yeah. It can it can overwork good audio. I haven't I haven't used it

in a in a couple of years, but, it it has done miracles

for bad audio, but yet I'm I'm a little hesitant to use it on

decent audio. Right. Because the directive isn't

clean up this audio if it needs to be cleaned up. It's clean up this

audio. Right. Right. Remove the room noise. Well, there's no room noise, so I'm gonna

remove something. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You might you would like that.

Okay. And then the last question we like to ask everybody is is there a

podcast that you are subscribed to or that you are listening to that, you know,

maybe you have a bunch in your playlist? But when this one hits, you're gonna

stop what you're doing. You're gonna listen to it. Right? It it you never miss

an episode. What what's that podcast or 2 that just

will always have priority for you? 1 is Cortex

from Relay or Relay dot f m. That's with CGP

Grey, and Mike Hurley. It's it's monthly,

and it's just a great I love the insight that they give on, like,

productivity and the way they think about work, and it's just

a very interesting podcast to me. And then the other one is Serious

Trouble, and that's with Josh Barrow, a journalist

who formerly hosted, KCRW's left, right, and center,

and Ken White, a former federal prosecutor,

and they talk about federal cases.

And I think that Josh is an excellent

like, you know which side of the aisle he falls on politically, but he's an

excellent journalist who asks really good questions. And I

think Ken White is just a very funny commentator,

And so, you also know where he falls, and he's a little bit more partisan

than Josh. But I think his insights and experience are very funny,

and so I love listening to that podcast. Very good. Well,

we'll have links to those 2 shows as well in the show notes as well

as a link to podcast workflows.com

and some profiles. If you wanna check out Joe Casa

Bono, the podcast as some coach at podcast workflows. Joe,

it is a pleasure to chat with you. And now that I know that you're

just a few miles away, I hope you get to, meet up in person soon.

Thanks for joining me today. My pleasure and absolutely anytime, Matthew. Thanks

so much for having me on the show. Thanks for joining us today on

Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the hardware and software

that help power our guest content and podcasting tech

available in the show notes and on our website at podcastingtech.com.

You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on

social media, and even leave a rating and review while you're there. Thanks,

and we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.