I think the end result is
that we actually start experiencing the love of Jesus.
We start experiencing it.
And the way that it plays out is that not only are we talking about Jesus
shedding his love abroad in our hearts, we actually are starting to engage in it.
It's like opening the door so it can happen.
Thank you for joining us for this episode, Janelle.
To begin, can you introduce yourself to us?
Sure.
I'll try to think of a few things to say.
I'm in my mid 40s and I have four children.
some in early teenage years and some still in elementary school.
And, my family lives in Meadville here in Pennsylvania, and,
so I'm busy with home life, but I am also currently
doing up to 15 hours a week of, online coaching
and some in-person coaching, primarily with Anabaptist women
who are noticing that they have a need for more support in their lives.
Excellent.
Tell us how you became invested in peaceful relationships.
Well, like most things happen, one step just led to the next.
So one small step at a time.
years ago, when my husband was first ordained as a deacon
and we served as youth pastors in a fairly large Mennonite congregation
and also cared for adult members in the congregation.
he and I both became keenly aware
of our lack of understanding and ability in helping members in our congregation
who had stories that went beyond the, Maybe we would say, like the more
normal griefs or the more understood kinds of griefs and experiences.
some of the stories involved,
trauma, which I know we'll be talking about in a later episode.
and other kinds of,
well, stories that would have involved
emotional neglect, some sexual or emotional or spiritual abuses.
And these people were struggling to feel at home
in the congregation and understood by other people.
and when we talked with these people, we also were frequently hearing,
that sometimes when people were trying to help them,
it seemed to add to the pain instead of actually,
enabling them
to feel like they could move into relationship with other people.
So, Wendell and I were talking about what we could do,
to learn about how to not only support individuals,
but also, was there something that we could, learn
that would help our congregation do well at caring for each other?
So at my husband's suggestion, I applied to a local seminary.
At that time, it was within walking distance from our house,
and I started a master's program in spiritual care and psychotherapy,
and over 5 or 6 years of part time and eventually full time studies,
I had that chance to, to work at the intersection
of studying scripture and also studying counseling.
and always in focus
for me was this question of how how can we better care
for the more complex and mental health
related needs in our Anabaptist churches?
So it was the writings and work of an early family
therapist, Virginia Satir, that caught my attention
because she provided a more communal way of
thinking about human health and flourishing.
She was at the forefront of family therapy,
which was a systems therapy, that was being developed in contrast
to a lot of the older, individualistic ways of thinking about people.
Like all that talk about the ego and the self.
Satir’s work honored individual people.
But for her, the larger picture was that healthy
individuals create healthy communities.
And she would have understood that we can't really work that backwards.
that we need to attend to individual needs.
So, Virginia taught that
as we come to peace with our own life and experiences, we are
then more at peace and have more compassion to offer others.
And that makes peace in community possible.
So for her, peace with self was not the end goal.
It was the beginning place for healthy community.
And as I read, though she had a different language.
there was a lot about what she valued in the work that matched.
Actually, I could see like correlations between Anabaptist values
and the way that she was writing about peace within,
between and among.
Well thank you.
It's good to hear the background for that.
You mentioned within between and among.
And I understand that that's those are important
prepositions in Satir’s, the way she thinks about things.
So can you further develop that framework?
Sure.
I can I actually wrote that framework down
because in the teaching that I do, I think it's easier to see it sometimes
along with the words and not just hear about it.
So Virginia Satir.
She was really good at what she did, but she had trouble writing it all down.
So therapists since Virginia Satir have also,
contributed to her work.
this here diagram at the top.
Just think about what's here at the top, is the work of Jean McLendon,
and she's building off of Virginia Satir's work.
So Virginia talked about beginning with the individual.
And,
Jeanne McLendon writes, she talks about the seven A's.
So in any community, we all long for peace among.
Right.
Like, who doesn't long for world peace?
It's a universal longing that we would be able to be at peace with each other.
And she says, we don't get to peace with a large group of people
unless there's some self understanding and peace individually.
So she I, I can't there's no time to go into all the details of this,
but this is the development of the framework that we move from
an understanding of peace within towards peaceful communities.
We do this by, first of all, learning to be aware of ourselves.
I think the words of Jesus were examine yourself,
or at least New Testament words, are examine yourself.
And when Jesus gave the instructions to take the beam
out of your own eye before you're looking at the other person.
Those are some of the teachings
that I think come into play with this awareness piece, where we are
not just in relationship with each other and making judgments about other people,
but especially when there's conflict.
We are aware of what is ours in that conflict.
The way she taught the awareness piece is a diagram
that many people have seen in other places, or diagrams similar
to it, that for any of us, we are interacting only at the like.
We can only see each other's behaviors and hear each other's words,
but our behaviors and our words are coming from much deeper places.
So when we're doing the work of awareness,
we're acknowledging that there's conflict.
And then we are asking ourselves questions like, okay,
what kinds of feelings am I having in this conflict?
what do I what are my perceptions?
Here's what I think is going on.
Maybe there's something else too.
we own what
it is that we are really caring about, and also the kinds of rules
we have for ourselves and other people, like, well,
they should do this, and I should do this, and we should do this.
And also our beliefs as Christians, like we are Christian people.
So this is what I believe we should do.
down below that, what am I really longing for?
Peace is always a longing.
but then there's also things like to be accepted.
To be understood.
to be able to serve a purpose, to find meaning.
All of those things.
Are universal human longings?
And as Christians,
all of this is true.
But we also choose to live with the lens of and who am I in Christ?
And who is this other person in Christ?
So there's a whole lot to attend to
in the awareness piece here.
Acceptance
is the willingness then to say, okay, this is real about me.
Like, I'm in this conflict and this is all true for me.
And so the acceptance is accepting that this is real.
It's not saying it's good,
because when we do self-examination, we find things that are not good.
Like we find our own weakness and our own sin.
Christ shows that to us.
but we acknowledge that it's real.
And then
authorship is is very similar to that.
But it's going a step further and saying, this isn't
this is like mine to do something with.
So I am in this conflict, but this is what I'm doing and it's real,
and this is mine to do something with, no matter what the other person does.
This is mine to work with.
Yeah.
So that's that's the peace within.
When you have two people who are in disagreement and they know how
to do this for themselves, then they can move into this next step,
which is where they start to talk to each other about those things.
And they can they can say, this is me.
This is what I care about.
I realize this is what I struggle with.
So they are articulating to someone else, like confession, right?
Confess your faults to each other and be healed.
This is a great That verse fits really well in this space, I think.
And the application then is where we,
we from that understanding of our conflict and ownership.
We then we do start to do some of the maybe the problem-solving around it, like,
okay, this is you and this is me.
And now we do the applying of what we do next.
Yeah.
And articulation.
Had you mentioned that yet or did I miss...
Oh yes, the articulation is where we speak
what's true about us to another person.
Because now we're looking at the peace between. Yes.
And for Virginia the peace between is two people at a time.
Like it's me and another individual.
Yeah.
And then if we are able to have those,
those kinds of conversations, you imagine
a community of people that could do those kinds of conversations, right?
That would be a healthy community.
Right?
So then we can, as a community,
McLendon used the words activism and altruism.
I, I know those aren't like words
that we're probably going to use much as Anabaptists.
I think it's probably words more like the activism is this thing
of moving out and engaging with the world then, like it's going to a larger circle
and it is doing justly, loving
mercy, walking humbly.
and the altruism is the idea that we, we give up ourselves
for the sake of another person, which is something Jesus taught, right?
and we do that.
It's kind of like the end of the road
of this development of peace within, between and among.
So that's the that's like a larger scale framework.
And the iceberg is part of the awareness piece.
I think
then the other piece that I teach a lot when we're talking about peace,
is this understanding that when there's conflict,
we all have pieces that we will lose sight of pretty naturally.
And there might be patterns about how we do that.
So very briefly, I would just say that to be at peace,
we need people who are able to know themselves.
They've done this work of peace within, and they are able to meet the other person
in that process, and they're able to stay attentive to the context.
So in a church context, when there's a conflict,
it takes people being able to see themselves and see the other person
and stay aware of the relationship that's shared in the church context.
But we all have our tendency to get we have a tendency to shut down
awareness of certain things and fixate on other things. So
when we shut down our
awareness of our self,
Virginia Satir called this placating, and that's where we fixate
on people pleasing, like, whatever you want me to do, I'll do it.
Just I need I need you, I need you to be okay with me.
And that can be really problematic, actually.
It can set up power dynamics and abuse dynamics really quickly.
It's different than submitting for the sake of the gospel.
This is like where I actually stop feeling and I, I don't
I don't express myself and I don't
yeah, it's basically everything about my interactions
just becomes about appeasing, not making peace.
It's usually placating
is usually done in relationship with someone else
who tends to when they're in conflict,
they tend to minimize the other person, the other party.
And so they're not feeling safe either.
And because they're not feeling safe or at peace
within themselves, then they're minimizing the other person.
They're it's things like,
the other
person's always wrong, or the other person needs to be quiet,
or the other person should should actually be lower.
So it can involve authority.
super reasonable is where we actually stop
attending to the relational part of the gospel at all.
Like loving each other and showing respect towards each other.
And we get really fixated on a problem of some kind.
And that's what Virginia Satir called the context relationally,
two people can stop caring about their human experience
and just fixate on something that they don't agree on.
And that's the super reasonable,
and sometimes we just actually we're done attending to any of it.
And she called this irrelevant.
This is when we might actually cut off a relationship completely.
it can also mean that we just
we don't
know how to even if we're present in the same room together.
We don't actually know how to communicate with each other.
so the goal is that if we realize when we're in a conflict,
what we're tending to do in coping with the conflict,
we work really hard and prayerfully and with other people
to add in whatever we realize we're shutting out.
So if I would see that, oh, I'm really I'm really going to blame here.
And I'm not letting the other person speak and I'm not letting myself hear them.
That's my work to do.
I need to listen more closely.
I need to allow them to speak.
If I realize that I'm going silent because I'm scared to speak,
my job might actually be to start to say something.
if we're getting super reasonable
starting in either one or the other, but becoming more interested again
in the relationship itself, that needs to be added back in.
And if we have completely cut off relationship,
we can start in any of the three.
Whatever feels safest.
That's excellent.
I like that.
That's a very helpful framework.
And I'm curious.
So when we have peace within between and among in order and
these things are in place both in individuals and in the community,
what does the end result look like?
Can you paint a picture of. Yes.
Then what happens? Yes.
So I know that as Christians and Anabaptists
we know that we don't do this work all by ourself.
This is not just self-improvement work.
It's right in the work of repentance and prayer and all of that,
speaking with other people.
I think the end result is
that we actually start experiencing the love of Jesus.
We start experiencing it.
And the way that it plays out is that not only are we talking about Jesus
shedding his love abroad in our hearts, we actually are starting to engage in it.
It's like opening the door so it can happen.
So Jesus loved us first and he's inviting us to know his love
for us and to share it all around us with everyone we meet.
And we can learn about the context and the ideas of his love in Scripture.
We can.
We see it in words, and it's a longing we all have.
but so much of the love is experienced by putting.
I think by starting to say, okay, but these are some little pieces
and ways that I can understand to engage with this kind of love.
Jesus.
Was it Peter that Jesus said, do you love me?
And Peter's like, yes, I love you.
And then Jesus says, well, then feed my lambs.
So and also the love your neighbor as you love yourself.
there's a strong correlation between the ways we are able to love people
and the love that we are actually knowing and understanding about, about God.
So God is the source.
It's so connected and reflected in what we're doing with each other.
So what does this framework mean for the way that an individual
relates to his or her community?
It means that we keep coming back to Christ as the one who makes peace
inside, inside us, individually first, and then inside of our communities.
We ask Jesus to show us our places of weakness and blindness and bitterness
that are inside of us, not just outside of us, with others,
because we know he told us to remove the the beam
in our own eye before pointing out the splinter in others.
And he also told us to leave our other offerings at the altar.
If we have anything against someone else.
It means that we can see things differently from each other
in our communities.
We actually can disagree sometimes, and we don't always need to fight it out.
We know how to forbear, to, right?
Sometimes we have to work it out, and sometimes we just.
We bear with each other and we forbear.
it means that we wait to speak truth
until we can do it with love.
Because without love, it profits nothing.
It means that we listen below
each other's words for the longings that we are sharing.
And we always remember the person of Jesus inside each other.
And it means that when we are speaking our thoughts to another person,
we are also committed to hearing and valuing theirs.
As we're having this conversation, I'm trying to anticipate
some of the objections that somebody might have.
And I'm thinking particularly of, you know, in the framework
that you gave peace with one's self or peace
is the preposition within
is first and,
you know, in the New Testament,
it seems that believers are called to put the good of others
above their own good, or to be thinking of others before oneself.
So can you address the concern
of maybe something being out of place or in the wrong order,
if we're putting peace with ourself or own
well-being first?
I can understand why
we're nervous about the language I really do.
And I've often wished that there was like other words to be used there.
And maybe there are other words.
it's usually it's easy to hear the language and the history of, of self
that has pervaded psychology and view it as working against healthy community.
and also as separate from like Christ at work in our hearts
and where like, I think in the secular world,
wherever self-development is viewed as the, like the end goal
or in a vacuum, like it just happens all within one individual.
it really does work against Christ's model of servant living and community.
I see it somewhat as a question of where we
again, what we're going to
emphasize over in our reading of scriptures.
because some of the New Testament letters do highlight
the need for stability and like that, it's the it's a very communal language
in the New Testament. Right.
there's this there's this understanding
that believers are committed to Christ and to each other.
But then I look in the Gospels at Jesus ministry,
and I also see him calling out the stories of individual people.
And there are times when he's honoring individuals
in ways that are against the communal rules.
Right.
There are times when he is interacting with people very differently
than what the community expectations would ask for.
So he spoke to crowds, but he listened to and touched
and felt things in relationship with individuals.
Jesus saw himself
and others and community all through the lens of the will of his father.
So when the community thought that he was wrong for touching someone
unclean or healing and gleaning wheat on the Sabbath,
he was always orienting himself to the love of the father.
He knew who he was, and he knew what he was there to do.
And he was very oriented to the will of God.
So that's like the self.
He didn't lose him.
His understanding of himself and what was going on while he served
other people.
When asked about the greatest
of all the commandments, he didn't just distill it to one.
He said, two are so close together they can't be separated.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind,
and love your neighbor in the same way you love yourself.
And honestly,
lately, as I as I keep living, I wonder sometimes.
Yes, he gave it as an instruction,
but I also wonder sometimes if it's almost like a law of gravity,
that this is just the way it is, that to know
the love of God shed abroad in our hearts, we have to open up ourselves
individually, like we have to know what it's like to be loved.
And I think
sometimes we're working so hard at getting our loving other people right.
But we're still not.
We're still not completely opened up to being loved ourselves
by letting God's love for us change us as an initial place.
So we need to open up ourselves to taking in love all the way,
and then we're freed up to love others out of that love.
So this question about the worry about somehow,
like if if
we don't value ourselves, what kind of loving
are we going to be doing?
I think that's my question.
If if my service of others is done from a place of shame
and not understanding my value,
I'm not sure what kind of loving I'm doing
and what the other person experiences from that.
So I see the phrase of being at peace with oneself
as very different from just selfishly taking care of myself.
It's not a protective care.
It's not a protective kind of loving.
it's much more similar to having integrity
and having awareness of Jesus love
and then being able to take responsibility
for others, like for myself, with others.
When Jesus washed his disciples feet
and he emptied himself on the cross,
he still knew who he was and he still knew the father's love for him.
So this losing of ourselves.
Is not a loss of our identity.
It's not a loss of our value
that stays
intact, even while we're serving each other.
It's a very good response.
A bit earlier in this conversation you mentioned that you work as a coach.
can you tell us about that, how you got into it
and what this work involves.
Sure. A little bit about that.
when I finished up my university coursework,
I wasn't certain how I was going to use my learnings.
At that point we were still, I was certainly using them
congregationally.
So many people in our congregation at that time
were conversation partners for me while I was in that learning process.
But we were also moving away.
We were moving from Canada to the US at that time, and so I decided to wait
until we had successfully moved, and I had received a green card
to start figuring out what to do from there.
But then the pandemic entered the picture,
and, my husband's sources of income, were drying up.
And, he's a composer, so, like, choirs weren't meeting and they weren't
buying his music to sing, and everyone was being locked down in our own homes.
And so once again, Wendell asked me if I would consider
just seeing if people if there was a need for online coaching.
So I didn't have my license yet.
I'm not a licensed counselor, so hence the coaching.
and he just wanted me to see if there was a need or a wish for it.
And I was tentative about that.
I wondered how it would even work to talk to people on a screen
instead of in person.
And how would how would that be helpful to them?
And I worried that it would be stilted and difficult to care for people that way.
but as happens so often, limitations can give birth
to new the new, opportunities.
So I posted once on Facebook with a link to a simple web page and
found out
that there is a need and there is a desire,
and that there are many Anabaptist women who are saying to me,
you know, I've wanted
I've wanted to receive care and help for a long time, but I didn't know.
I didn't know where to go.
and so this is accessible for them.
So in online coaching, maybe I function with coaching.
I function a little more like the family doctor does in the medical world,
because I'm not the therapist for a lot of the traumatic needs that people have.
But, clients will inquire with many different questions and needs.
And sometimes I have the skills to guide and support them toward their goals.
But it's really important that I know when I don't have the skills.
And so during those times, I'm also looking to help guide them
and maybe suggest other supports for them with what they're experiencing.
That is commonly that commonly happens
depending on the mental health needs and just what's all happening for them.
Other times we talk together about,
about some of the things that can support and that is often,
like mood disorders,
things like depression, anxiety.
sometimes OCD, so obsessive thinking.
I also support women who are in difficult marriages,
or they're pursuing freedom from their own addictions.
Some clients want a supportive place to look back at a certain
grief or trauma and gain understanding and healing.
and sometimes they're they're looking for places
to talk about their questions, about their faith and what they're
wondering about in their relationship with the Lord.
I also have offered training to other Mennonite women who are interested in,
growing in their listening skills
or their abilities to care for people in their congregations.
And that is particularly close to my heart.
It's been such an honor to prepare other women
who want to give good care in their congregations.
I receive way more inquiries for care than what I can get to on my own,
and it's been a delight to match the needs of clients
with the strengths of other mentors who are available.
So that's some of the stuff that happens.
Yeah.
Well that's good as you have worked as a coach.
what's the biggest thing that you have learned
and the greatest need that you have become most passionate about?
Right.
It's really hard to distill right to the most passionate and the greatest need.
But I did think of a few things here.
I've learned that there are endless ways to suffer.
We don't all suffer the same way.
There's so many ways to suffer.
And alongside that, I've learned
and seen how God gives us a large capacity
to live and love and follow him while we're suffering,
and that having compassionate witnesses in our suffering
is something that God is asking us to provide for each other.
Even if we can't fix the suffering or always take it away or make it stop.
There is a there's a strength
that comes by witnessing and bearing each other's burdens.
So we
lean on Christ together and we trust him together,
even while we are suffering and that is so different from everybody
being frantic about fixing it or making everything go away.
because suffering is a part of living,
and I am passionate about Christian women
bringing their health to their churches and their communities.
I've come to care a great deal
about the strengths in the Anabaptist women that I'm meeting with.
They have learned so much in their lifetimes,
but they are not just learning for their own sake.
They're eager to grow so that they can be healthier
for their husbands and their families and their friends and their churches.
And though there's often a need to understand
the past, there's always deep desire toward God
and a desire to share what they're learning out with other people.
And I have a hope that Anabaptist churches will open up
new ways to receive women.
to be involved in caring ministries in their congregations.
Following after examples of Phoebe and Priscilla and Lydia and others in Scripture.
That is an excellent vision.
Thank you.
I think in a previous conversation or perhaps an email,
you said that there is a pervasive sense
within women that their thoughts and ideas
are more likely dangerous than helpful.
This makes me sad.
And I understand that is something that you also are
interested in combating.
So I'm curious how you encourage women
to find a better regard for their own contributions.
And I'm open to any kind of answer that you have for this.
but I would be particularly interested in hearing
how the Bible can address this fear.
Yes. well,
I hope to see men and women sharing their conversations of reflection on
God's work in their lives and what they're learning in their reading of Scripture.
So I, I envision a way that we would be comfortable, men and women.
But I realize that in our, Anabaptist context,
we are, we're very attentive to teachings about who women maybe can or cannot,
maybe what our spheres for speaking that out are right in a church context.
so even this conversation is so valuable to me.
It was an honor to sit.
It's just an honor to sit with you and be trusted.
I think that a lot of women in our Mennonite churches are,
whether they've been taught it or whether it's just sort of
in the air in other ways.
We're very aware of verses in the Bible, like about Eve being deceived first.
Right.
And, that we're to be silent in church and that we're supposed to be submissive.
And so we hear those things, and I'm not trying to do away with those instructions,
but when I look at Scripture as a whole and I look at women in those scriptures,
there's this emphasis on women being, silent in church,
submissive to own husbands.
And Eve was deceived, not Adam.
And then we're not sure if the accounts of, like, Esther
and Deborah and Hannah and Elizabeth
and Mary and Lydia and Priscilla, or the women who followed Jesus during
his ministry, can actually like, do they balance out
those other warnings about who we are or how do we hold them both?
I think so often when I'm looking at when I'm teaching women, about
the value that
Christ places on them as well in the church,
those are the stories that we're starting to talk about more.
another one that I, another text that I look
at is, Genesis one and two.
So if the church, if we're all we want to, if we want to reflect as much of God's
original design in this life as possible, I think that's true.
Like, what did God design us to do and to be?
and when we look at his intent
for male and female in Genesis one and two, it's just
I think I'm just pointing this out here that the chapter one account
talks about God creating male and female
with the intent that they would have dominion together.
Like, there's a
there's a very mutual language in chapter one about how he creates
male and female, and he gives them the earth to take care of together.
And then in
chapter two, the narrative is a little different
because God creates Adam first in that account,
and then he says, it's not good for man to do this alone.
And so he creates a helper, and his helper is a woman.
And, I still remember hearing a Jewish,
professor talk about that word helpmeet.
And I know what's in our background for helpmeet.
but the Jewish professor was talking
about how the meaning of this word,
part of it is this idea of being in contrast to and being against,
not against in a, in a way of conflict, although there's plenty of it,
sometimes between male and female, but more it's like like the,
like the supportive role, like the tent or the tripod
that that God didn't intend for men to stand by themselves.
There's this understanding that male and female were created to stand together
and be very supportive alongside of each other,
and that's the help, the help-meet.
What kind of help?
Well, a very different kind of help, probably
with a very different perspective.
Sometimes, but meant to keep things
in a sense of peace or shalom or stability.
So I wonder about
that in Genesis one and two.
Perhaps from the very beginning, God understood that two parts are always
needed for balance, and that one part will never remain in balance alone.
Then when we read through the New Testament and we watch closely
for the presence of women, there are a lot of there are a lot of,
messages of hope, I think, for Christian women.
I still remember the first time I noticed the short phrases in the Gospels
about the women who followed Jesus from Galilee and realized
that all my life I just pictured it like Jesus and a group of men.
It was just Jesus and his 12 disciples doing all this amazing stuff.
But when I realized that there were women that were traveling with them
and were attending to their needs and were part of this ministry as well,
I think the phrase is that they ministered to him from their substance.
That was a, that was like a fireworks for me, right?
Because, oh, they were there too.
They were very much a part of this.
then I think about Romans
16, where Paul is sending greetings to multiple women
like he's saying, greet this woman because she labored long
in the Lord and greet this woman who was in the Lord before me.
And, he's sending these greetings to women in the community
and realizing that whatever Paul meant
by women being submissive or silent in church
services, he did not see them as uninvolved in the church.
He saw them as very involved and very important
presence in the Christian community.
So I consider these things
when I'm encouraging women to bring their thoughts
and to bring their concerns and their ideas
to conversation with men in their homes and in their churches.
So, of course, first to their husbands, but then as they're invited
to be willing to share their thoughts, with men in their communities,
we talk about
how we're not this isn't about taking anything away from men.
It's never about trying to take something away.
It's it's the desire to be part of something together.
And I encourage women to join conversations and help men in their lives.
And always doing this also from a posture of love.
Because if we fight to have a voice, it's still profits nothing, right?
So we come with a desire to be with
in our communities, but always from a posture of love.
As male and female, we're called by Jesus
to serve together, and this involves hearing from each other
and having challenging but peaceful conversations together.
and I'm really grateful for this one.
Yeah.
And it's a genuine honor to have you join us for this conversation.
We're delighted that you're able to be here for this conversation, and
we're going to record another one after this.
So we're glad that you're on that one, too.
Thank you.
Before we end this conversation, is there anything else that you would like
to add or resources that you could recommend to our audience?
Well, for anybody who's interested in looking more at what I had on the
small whiteboard, if you want to read more about that from a Christian perspective.
Mark and Debbie Laaser wrote a book called “Seven Desires”, and the subtitle
is “Looking Past what separates us to learn what Connects us”.
And it's done from a Christian.
It's written from a Christian perspective,
but they also talk about the teachings of Virginia Satir.
So for people who are interested in reading more, they could read this book.
Well, excellent.
Thank you for the recommendation.
And again, thank you for joining us for this conversation.
You’re welcome.
Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives.
For the complete library of the blog posts and episodes that we have published,
visit anabaptistperspectives.org
Are you feeling inspired?
And where do you today?
What is peace within oneself and with others?
Have to do with the peace and well-being of the community?
So, I don't know, for a hook.
Does that
raise a question and capture attention?
Okay, we'll go with that.
If it doesn't work, maybe Carl can find
something from later on in the episode I was first.
Yeah.
for the second one, many people have experienced trauma.
Many people have experienced trauma.
How can Christians support those who have been traumatized?
How can churches offer a loving care?
You have thoughts on
on that?
Yeah.
Maybe
my only my suggestion maybe to frame that
to those looking on the person who is experiencing trauma may seem odd
or struggling and necessarily,
how do we relate to people's home
coma and help them,
forward rather than pushing them further
in something like that would help
frame the tension.
Yeah, yeah.
See if I can find some words for that.
How's this for those looking on?
Those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily.
How can Christians support those who have been traumatized
rather than driving their suffering deeper?
How can churches offer loving care?
Okay.
Does that capture what you were suggesting?
I think yes, yes. Yeah.
Very well, I like that.
Yeah.
That is an improvement.
Shall we, should we do these first and then think about the outros?
Sure.
Where shall I be and where shall I look?
Are we still recording?
Oh, we're capturing all of this. Okay.
Sorry, Carl.
This.
yeah.
Once you get settled, I'll adjust and I'll be at all.
Okay, then you'll be good here.
Okay.
That's pretty fun.
That's pretty funny.
Do you think the iPad is distracting to have it
vertically rather than laying down.
On this camera?
So I think, oh, okay. Good.
So Carl, this is the intro for the first episode,
which is about peaceful relationships.
What does peace within oneself
and with others have to do with the peace
and well-being of the community?
What does peace within oneself
and with others have to do with the peace and well-being
of the larger community?
Okay.
You're good. Okay.
And this is the intro for the second episode with Janelle Glick.
it's the one about
trauma and trauma informed churches.
For those looking on,
those who have experienced trauma may be suffering unnecessarily.
How can Christians support those who have experienced trauma
rather than driving their suffering deeper?
How can churches offer a loving care?
How does that wording turn on the first sentence?
For those looking.
For those looking
on, those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily.
Yeah. Is there a way we can frame that more clearly?
No. That was that was good.
I mean, I didn't hear you say the word appear, so I was,
was oh,
okay.
I mean, that would be bad news to leave that out. Yeah.
so, Carl, make sure that the word appears in the first sentence,
and I'll try again and try to get the words right.
And maybe start with to those looking on, rather than for those looking,
okay, I think I might be a little more clear and less.
That's not chromatically.
No, that's grammatically good and I think probably clear.
So I will try again.
To those looking on,
those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily.
How can Christians support those who have experienced trauma
rather than driving the suffering deeper?
How can churches respond?
That sound good?
Okay,
you go one more, run your good.
To those looking on,
those who have experienced trauma may appear
to be suffering unnecessarily.
How can
how can Christian support those who have experienced trauma
rather than driving the suffering deeper?
How can churches respond?
Okay, then for the outros.
You had some words
to thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives.
Is that the kind of thing we say?
Greg Spiel is like, thank you for watching this episode.
We hope you enjoyed it.
If you want to learn more about this,
we have such so Such episode link below.
as always,
you can see all of our content on our website.
Yeah, we got in about society.org. You.
I don't know if there's any more
filler and.
Thank you for watching
and we will catch you in the next.
Series.
this is
we've never done episodes about the peace of relationships.
One before that that's unique.
So I don't think I'll reference any others.
What if I would say something like, thank you for watching this episode
of Anabaptist Perspectives, for the complete library of the blog posts
and episodes that we have published, visit Anabaptist perspectives.org.
That's that's brief.
Does it sound unnaturally brief?
So okay,
so to.
Okay.
I think you've got something ready for both.
And we're still recording.
Okay, so, Carl, this is the outro for our
episode one about peace and relationships.
Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives.
For the complete library of the blog posts and episodes that we have published,
visit anabaptistperspectives.org
Thank you for watching this episode with Janelle.
Click for the complete collection of episodes and blog posts
that we have published.
Visit and a Baptist perspectives.org.
So that sound
semi-natural.
Okay, we'll stop there.
And Carl, this is the outro for the second episode with Janelle
Glick about trauma.
Thank you
for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives.
This is the second episode that we have recorded with Janelle Glick
for her first.
Thank you
for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives.
This is the second episode that we have recorded with Janelle Glick.
You can find the link to her
first episode with us about peace and relationships below.
For the complete library of blog posts and episodes that we have published,
visit Anabaptist perspectives.org.
That sounds good.
Okay.
I think it's everything done.
Thank you. Yes.
Two hours is a long time.
I try to, you know, conversation.
It is. It's tired.
I'm sure.
Hopefully I.
Don't look entirely.
Dazed. Yes.
where do we go from here?
I guess we need to get the footage to the server.
Have you had success uploading or showing?
I have, that now.
Myron had sent me a couple one time links.
Yeah, previously, but then they did create an account for me.
But I had some difficulty logging in.
I did get a password and such set up, and then,
kind of,
something happened that I needed to do a reset and had some difficulty with.
So I just need to get back in touch with Myron and have him
help me.
with whatever
technical issue was going on with the password reset, and I'll.
I'll be able to upload it to the server.
So I think I can do whatever needs
to be done with the footage is okay in terms of uploading.
Yeah.
Well, let me, let me know if you run into any trouble and,
we can try to find another method.
Sure.
I mean, the other method would be physical hard drive and mail or something,
but we'll try to make sure that something works.
Yeah, and.
Should be fine.
You can submit invoices to Marlon.
Suppose that's familiar. Yep.
Anything else that.
Would be helpful for me?
No. Okay. I think we're good to go.
I shall probably head out then, but thank you so much. Yes.
Appreciate your time and yeah, technical things and the elaborate beautiful setup.
Yes. So the rest of today two
things. To.