1 00:00:00,583 --> 00:00:02,252 I think the end result is 2 00:00:02,252 --> 00:00:06,172 that we actually start experiencing the love of Jesus. 3 00:00:06,423 --> 00:00:08,425 We start experiencing it. 4 00:00:08,425 --> 00:00:13,888 And the way that it plays out is that not only are we talking about Jesus 5 00:00:13,888 --> 00:00:18,935 shedding his love abroad in our hearts, we actually are starting to engage in it. 6 00:00:18,977 --> 00:00:21,563 It's like opening the door so it can happen. 7 00:00:27,485 --> 00:00:29,904 Thank you for joining us for this episode, Janelle. 8 00:00:29,904 --> 00:00:32,907 To begin, can you introduce yourself to us? 9 00:00:33,408 --> 00:00:34,034 Sure. 10 00:00:34,034 --> 00:00:35,827 I'll try to think of a few things to say. 11 00:00:35,827 --> 00:00:41,583 I'm in my mid 40s and I have four children. 12 00:00:42,167 --> 00:00:46,421 some in early teenage years and some still in elementary school. 13 00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:51,968 And, my family lives in Meadville here in Pennsylvania, and, 14 00:00:52,010 --> 00:00:55,930 so I'm busy with home life, but I am also currently 15 00:00:55,930 --> 00:00:59,976 doing up to 15 hours a week of, online coaching 16 00:00:59,976 --> 00:01:03,813 and some in-person coaching, primarily with Anabaptist women 17 00:01:04,522 --> 00:01:08,234 who are noticing that they have a need for more support in their lives. 18 00:01:09,652 --> 00:01:11,279 Excellent. 19 00:01:11,279 --> 00:01:14,741 Tell us how you became invested in peaceful relationships. 20 00:01:15,617 --> 00:01:19,162 Well, like most things happen, one step just led to the next. 21 00:01:19,162 --> 00:01:21,664 So one small step at a time. 22 00:01:21,664 --> 00:01:25,376 years ago, when my husband was first ordained as a deacon 23 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:29,464 and we served as youth pastors in a fairly large Mennonite congregation 24 00:01:29,839 --> 00:01:33,843 and also cared for adult members in the congregation. 25 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:37,347 he and I both became keenly aware 26 00:01:38,139 --> 00:01:43,436 of our lack of understanding and ability in helping members in our congregation 27 00:01:43,937 --> 00:01:48,149 who had stories that went beyond the, Maybe we would say, like the more 28 00:01:48,149 --> 00:01:52,487 normal griefs or the more understood kinds of griefs and experiences. 29 00:01:53,363 --> 00:01:55,031 some of the stories involved, 30 00:01:55,031 --> 00:01:59,035 trauma, which I know we'll be talking about in a later episode. 31 00:01:59,410 --> 00:02:02,413 and other kinds of, 32 00:02:04,499 --> 00:02:05,917 well, stories that would have involved 33 00:02:05,917 --> 00:02:10,130 emotional neglect, some sexual or emotional or spiritual abuses. 34 00:02:10,505 --> 00:02:13,675 And these people were struggling to feel at home 35 00:02:13,675 --> 00:02:16,678 in the congregation and understood by other people. 36 00:02:17,929 --> 00:02:21,141 and when we talked with these people, we also were frequently hearing, 37 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:25,186 that sometimes when people were trying to help them, 38 00:02:25,436 --> 00:02:29,107 it seemed to add to the pain instead of actually, 39 00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:32,277 enabling them 40 00:02:32,277 --> 00:02:35,488 to feel like they could move into relationship with other people. 41 00:02:36,364 --> 00:02:40,243 So, Wendell and I were talking about what we could do, 42 00:02:40,451 --> 00:02:44,664 to learn about how to not only support individuals, 43 00:02:44,664 --> 00:02:47,792 but also, was there something that we could, learn 44 00:02:47,792 --> 00:02:51,671 that would help our congregation do well at caring for each other? 45 00:02:52,172 --> 00:02:55,884 So at my husband's suggestion, I applied to a local seminary. 46 00:02:55,884 --> 00:02:58,887 At that time, it was within walking distance from our house, 47 00:02:59,220 --> 00:03:03,474 and I started a master's program in spiritual care and psychotherapy, 48 00:03:04,350 --> 00:03:09,439 and over 5 or 6 years of part time and eventually full time studies, 49 00:03:09,439 --> 00:03:13,526 I had that chance to, to work at the intersection 50 00:03:13,526 --> 00:03:17,197 of studying scripture and also studying counseling. 51 00:03:19,490 --> 00:03:20,742 and always in focus 52 00:03:20,742 --> 00:03:25,205 for me was this question of how how can we better care 53 00:03:25,622 --> 00:03:28,291 for the more complex and mental health 54 00:03:28,291 --> 00:03:31,294 related needs in our Anabaptist churches? 55 00:03:31,836 --> 00:03:34,464 So it was the writings and work of an early family 56 00:03:34,464 --> 00:03:37,592 therapist, Virginia Satir, that caught my attention 57 00:03:38,218 --> 00:03:40,678 because she provided a more communal way of 58 00:03:40,678 --> 00:03:43,681 thinking about human health and flourishing. 59 00:03:44,057 --> 00:03:47,060 She was at the forefront of family therapy, 60 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:52,232 which was a systems therapy, that was being developed in contrast 61 00:03:52,232 --> 00:03:56,736 to a lot of the older, individualistic ways of thinking about people. 62 00:03:56,736 --> 00:03:59,739 Like all that talk about the ego and the self. 63 00:04:00,490 --> 00:04:03,952 Satir’s work honored individual people. 64 00:04:03,952 --> 00:04:07,538 But for her, the larger picture was that healthy 65 00:04:07,538 --> 00:04:10,541 individuals create healthy communities. 66 00:04:10,541 --> 00:04:14,587 And she would have understood that we can't really work that backwards. 67 00:04:16,130 --> 00:04:19,092 that we need to attend to individual needs. 68 00:04:20,009 --> 00:04:22,387 So, Virginia taught that 69 00:04:22,387 --> 00:04:26,557 as we come to peace with our own life and experiences, we are 70 00:04:26,557 --> 00:04:30,270 then more at peace and have more compassion to offer others. 71 00:04:30,687 --> 00:04:33,690 And that makes peace in community possible. 72 00:04:33,982 --> 00:04:37,193 So for her, peace with self was not the end goal. 73 00:04:37,485 --> 00:04:40,488 It was the beginning place for healthy community. 74 00:04:40,822 --> 00:04:44,325 And as I read, though she had a different language. 75 00:04:45,034 --> 00:04:49,414 there was a lot about what she valued in the work that matched. 76 00:04:49,455 --> 00:04:53,418 Actually, I could see like correlations between Anabaptist values 77 00:04:53,418 --> 00:04:56,754 and the way that she was writing about peace within, 78 00:04:57,255 --> 00:04:59,841 between and among. 79 00:04:59,841 --> 00:05:00,383 Well thank you. 80 00:05:00,383 --> 00:05:02,385 It's good to hear the background for that. 81 00:05:02,385 --> 00:05:05,805 You mentioned within between and among. 82 00:05:06,347 --> 00:05:09,267 And I understand that that's those are important 83 00:05:09,267 --> 00:05:13,604 prepositions in Satir’s, the way she thinks about things. 84 00:05:13,813 --> 00:05:16,441 So can you further develop that framework? 85 00:05:16,441 --> 00:05:17,483 Sure. 86 00:05:17,483 --> 00:05:20,695 I can I actually wrote that framework down 87 00:05:20,695 --> 00:05:25,158 because in the teaching that I do, I think it's easier to see it sometimes 88 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:28,578 along with the words and not just hear about it. 89 00:05:29,203 --> 00:05:30,830 So Virginia Satir. 90 00:05:30,830 --> 00:05:34,667 She was really good at what she did, but she had trouble writing it all down. 91 00:05:34,709 --> 00:05:38,463 So therapists since Virginia Satir have also, 92 00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:41,466 contributed to her work. 93 00:05:41,674 --> 00:05:44,052 this here diagram at the top. 94 00:05:44,052 --> 00:05:48,264 Just think about what's here at the top, is the work of Jean McLendon, 95 00:05:48,681 --> 00:05:51,684 and she's building off of Virginia Satir's work. 96 00:05:52,226 --> 00:05:57,023 So Virginia talked about beginning with the individual. 97 00:05:58,066 --> 00:05:59,317 And, 98 00:05:59,317 --> 00:06:02,570 Jeanne McLendon writes, she talks about the seven A's. 99 00:06:03,071 --> 00:06:07,283 So in any community, we all long for peace among. 100 00:06:07,283 --> 00:06:07,658 Right. 101 00:06:07,658 --> 00:06:10,411 Like, who doesn't long for world peace? 102 00:06:10,411 --> 00:06:15,041 It's a universal longing that we would be able to be at peace with each other. 103 00:06:15,583 --> 00:06:20,296 And she says, we don't get to peace with a large group of people 104 00:06:20,296 --> 00:06:23,925 unless there's some self understanding and peace individually. 105 00:06:24,550 --> 00:06:28,721 So she I, I can't there's no time to go into all the details of this, 106 00:06:28,971 --> 00:06:33,976 but this is the development of the framework that we move from 107 00:06:33,976 --> 00:06:38,064 an understanding of peace within towards peaceful communities. 108 00:06:38,523 --> 00:06:43,653 We do this by, first of all, learning to be aware of ourselves. 109 00:06:43,694 --> 00:06:47,240 I think the words of Jesus were examine yourself, 110 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,701 or at least New Testament words, are examine yourself. 111 00:06:50,701 --> 00:06:54,038 And when Jesus gave the instructions to take the beam 112 00:06:54,038 --> 00:06:57,708 out of your own eye before you're looking at the other person. 113 00:06:58,668 --> 00:07:00,461 Those are some of the teachings 114 00:07:00,461 --> 00:07:04,632 that I think come into play with this awareness piece, where we are 115 00:07:04,632 --> 00:07:09,220 not just in relationship with each other and making judgments about other people, 116 00:07:09,637 --> 00:07:12,640 but especially when there's conflict. 117 00:07:13,516 --> 00:07:16,519 We are aware of what is ours in that conflict. 118 00:07:16,853 --> 00:07:20,815 The way she taught the awareness piece is a diagram 119 00:07:20,815 --> 00:07:23,860 that many people have seen in other places, or diagrams similar 120 00:07:23,860 --> 00:07:29,574 to it, that for any of us, we are interacting only at the like. 121 00:07:29,574 --> 00:07:33,119 We can only see each other's behaviors and hear each other's words, 122 00:07:33,661 --> 00:07:38,207 but our behaviors and our words are coming from much deeper places. 123 00:07:38,583 --> 00:07:41,586 So when we're doing the work of awareness, 124 00:07:41,627 --> 00:07:43,504 we're acknowledging that there's conflict. 125 00:07:43,504 --> 00:07:46,966 And then we are asking ourselves questions like, okay, 126 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:50,303 what kinds of feelings am I having in this conflict? 127 00:07:50,636 --> 00:07:53,890 what do I what are my perceptions? 128 00:07:53,931 --> 00:07:56,601 Here's what I think is going on. 129 00:07:56,601 --> 00:07:58,186 Maybe there's something else too. 130 00:07:59,604 --> 00:08:00,646 we own what 131 00:08:00,646 --> 00:08:05,568 it is that we are really caring about, and also the kinds of rules 132 00:08:05,568 --> 00:08:08,404 we have for ourselves and other people, like, well, 133 00:08:08,404 --> 00:08:12,158 they should do this, and I should do this, and we should do this. 134 00:08:12,575 --> 00:08:16,579 And also our beliefs as Christians, like we are Christian people. 135 00:08:16,621 --> 00:08:19,624 So this is what I believe we should do. 136 00:08:19,707 --> 00:08:22,418 down below that, what am I really longing for? 137 00:08:22,418 --> 00:08:25,379 Peace is always a longing. 138 00:08:25,421 --> 00:08:28,508 but then there's also things like to be accepted. 139 00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:29,884 To be understood. 140 00:08:29,884 --> 00:08:34,180 to be able to serve a purpose, to find meaning. 141 00:08:34,305 --> 00:08:35,181 All of those things. 142 00:08:35,181 --> 00:08:37,808 Are universal human longings? 143 00:08:37,808 --> 00:08:40,144 And as Christians, 144 00:08:40,144 --> 00:08:42,396 all of this is true. 145 00:08:42,396 --> 00:08:46,651 But we also choose to live with the lens of and who am I in Christ? 146 00:08:46,651 --> 00:08:48,986 And who is this other person in Christ? 147 00:08:48,986 --> 00:08:51,989 So there's a whole lot to attend to 148 00:08:52,073 --> 00:08:54,867 in the awareness piece here. 149 00:08:54,867 --> 00:08:57,245 Acceptance 150 00:08:57,245 --> 00:09:02,458 is the willingness then to say, okay, this is real about me. 151 00:09:02,458 --> 00:09:06,128 Like, I'm in this conflict and this is all true for me. 152 00:09:06,128 --> 00:09:10,049 And so the acceptance is accepting that this is real. 153 00:09:10,383 --> 00:09:12,176 It's not saying it's good, 154 00:09:12,176 --> 00:09:16,138 because when we do self-examination, we find things that are not good. 155 00:09:16,138 --> 00:09:19,141 Like we find our own weakness and our own sin. 156 00:09:19,141 --> 00:09:21,143 Christ shows that to us. 157 00:09:21,143 --> 00:09:23,187 but we acknowledge that it's real. 158 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:24,605 And then 159 00:09:24,605 --> 00:09:28,234 authorship is is very similar to that. 160 00:09:28,234 --> 00:09:30,903 But it's going a step further and saying, this isn't 161 00:09:30,903 --> 00:09:33,698 this is like mine to do something with. 162 00:09:33,698 --> 00:09:37,743 So I am in this conflict, but this is what I'm doing and it's real, 163 00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:42,290 and this is mine to do something with, no matter what the other person does. 164 00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:45,001 This is mine to work with. 165 00:09:45,001 --> 00:09:46,502 Yeah. 166 00:09:46,502 --> 00:09:49,505 So that's that's the peace within. 167 00:09:50,339 --> 00:09:54,885 When you have two people who are in disagreement and they know how 168 00:09:54,885 --> 00:10:00,266 to do this for themselves, then they can move into this next step, 169 00:10:00,725 --> 00:10:03,728 which is where they start to talk to each other about those things. 170 00:10:04,145 --> 00:10:06,647 And they can they can say, this is me. 171 00:10:06,647 --> 00:10:07,690 This is what I care about. 172 00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:09,900 I realize this is what I struggle with. 173 00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:14,739 So they are articulating to someone else, like confession, right? 174 00:10:14,739 --> 00:10:17,742 Confess your faults to each other and be healed. 175 00:10:17,950 --> 00:10:21,954 This is a great That verse fits really well in this space, I think. 176 00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:25,541 And the application then is where we, 177 00:10:25,541 --> 00:10:30,046 we from that understanding of our conflict and ownership. 178 00:10:30,046 --> 00:10:34,342 We then we do start to do some of the maybe the problem-solving around it, like, 179 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,595 okay, this is you and this is me. 180 00:10:37,595 --> 00:10:41,432 And now we do the applying of what we do next. 181 00:10:42,975 --> 00:10:43,434 Yeah. 182 00:10:43,434 --> 00:10:45,561 And articulation. 183 00:10:45,561 --> 00:10:48,564 Had you mentioned that yet or did I miss... 184 00:10:48,773 --> 00:10:51,692 Oh yes, the articulation is where we speak 185 00:10:51,692 --> 00:10:54,654 what's true about us to another person. 186 00:10:54,695 --> 00:10:57,948 Because now we're looking at the peace between. Yes. 187 00:10:58,532 --> 00:11:02,036 And for Virginia the peace between is two people at a time. 188 00:11:02,119 --> 00:11:05,748 Like it's me and another individual. 189 00:11:06,457 --> 00:11:08,334 Yeah. 190 00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:11,337 And then if we are able to have those, 191 00:11:12,213 --> 00:11:14,215 those kinds of conversations, you imagine 192 00:11:14,215 --> 00:11:17,802 a community of people that could do those kinds of conversations, right? 193 00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:19,136 That would be a healthy community. 194 00:11:20,137 --> 00:11:20,471 Right? 195 00:11:20,471 --> 00:11:23,474 So then we can, as a community, 196 00:11:23,933 --> 00:11:27,103 McLendon used the words activism and altruism. 197 00:11:27,103 --> 00:11:29,063 I, I know those aren't like words 198 00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:32,066 that we're probably going to use much as Anabaptists. 199 00:11:32,483 --> 00:11:36,821 I think it's probably words more like the activism is this thing 200 00:11:36,821 --> 00:11:41,575 of moving out and engaging with the world then, like it's going to a larger circle 201 00:11:42,118 --> 00:11:44,704 and it is doing justly, loving 202 00:11:44,704 --> 00:11:47,707 mercy, walking humbly. 203 00:11:47,957 --> 00:11:52,211 and the altruism is the idea that we, we give up ourselves 204 00:11:52,962 --> 00:11:56,173 for the sake of another person, which is something Jesus taught, right? 205 00:11:56,716 --> 00:11:59,593 and we do that. 206 00:11:59,593 --> 00:12:02,346 It's kind of like the end of the road 207 00:12:02,346 --> 00:12:05,850 of this development of peace within, between and among. 208 00:12:06,517 --> 00:12:11,021 So that's the that's like a larger scale framework. 209 00:12:11,021 --> 00:12:13,691 And the iceberg is part of the awareness piece. 210 00:12:14,650 --> 00:12:15,818 I think 211 00:12:15,818 --> 00:12:20,865 then the other piece that I teach a lot when we're talking about peace, 212 00:12:21,407 --> 00:12:24,243 is this understanding that when there's conflict, 213 00:12:24,243 --> 00:12:28,539 we all have pieces that we will lose sight of pretty naturally. 214 00:12:29,123 --> 00:12:31,959 And there might be patterns about how we do that. 215 00:12:31,959 --> 00:12:36,338 So very briefly, I would just say that to be at peace, 216 00:12:37,047 --> 00:12:40,009 we need people who are able to know themselves. 217 00:12:40,009 --> 00:12:46,265 They've done this work of peace within, and they are able to meet the other person 218 00:12:46,807 --> 00:12:51,187 in that process, and they're able to stay attentive to the context. 219 00:12:51,687 --> 00:12:54,690 So in a church context, when there's a conflict, 220 00:12:55,357 --> 00:12:59,612 it takes people being able to see themselves and see the other person 221 00:12:59,945 --> 00:13:04,450 and stay aware of the relationship that's shared in the church context. 222 00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:09,580 But we all have our tendency to get we have a tendency to shut down 223 00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:14,794 awareness of certain things and fixate on other things. So 224 00:13:15,878 --> 00:13:17,671 when we shut down our 225 00:13:17,671 --> 00:13:21,801 awareness of our self, 226 00:13:21,884 --> 00:13:25,930 Virginia Satir called this placating, and that's where we fixate 227 00:13:25,930 --> 00:13:29,350 on people pleasing, like, whatever you want me to do, I'll do it. 228 00:13:29,767 --> 00:13:34,146 Just I need I need you, I need you to be okay with me. 229 00:13:34,563 --> 00:13:36,816 And that can be really problematic, actually. 230 00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:40,903 It can set up power dynamics and abuse dynamics really quickly. 231 00:13:41,111 --> 00:13:44,114 It's different than submitting for the sake of the gospel. 232 00:13:44,782 --> 00:13:48,786 This is like where I actually stop feeling and I, I don't 233 00:13:49,537 --> 00:13:52,540 I don't express myself and I don't 234 00:13:52,998 --> 00:13:56,502 yeah, it's basically everything about my interactions 235 00:13:56,752 --> 00:14:00,756 just becomes about appeasing, not making peace. 236 00:14:02,383 --> 00:14:03,801 It's usually placating 237 00:14:03,801 --> 00:14:06,887 is usually done in relationship with someone else 238 00:14:07,346 --> 00:14:10,432 who tends to when they're in conflict, 239 00:14:10,432 --> 00:14:13,936 they tend to minimize the other person, the other party. 240 00:14:14,353 --> 00:14:17,356 And so they're not feeling safe either. 241 00:14:17,398 --> 00:14:20,985 And because they're not feeling safe or at peace 242 00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:24,822 within themselves, then they're minimizing the other person. 243 00:14:25,072 --> 00:14:26,240 They're it's things like, 244 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:28,033 the other 245 00:14:28,033 --> 00:14:31,036 person's always wrong, or the other person needs to be quiet, 246 00:14:31,287 --> 00:14:35,291 or the other person should should actually be lower. 247 00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:38,878 So it can involve authority. 248 00:14:39,295 --> 00:14:42,840 super reasonable is where we actually stop 249 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,343 attending to the relational part of the gospel at all. 250 00:14:46,802 --> 00:14:50,639 Like loving each other and showing respect towards each other. 251 00:14:51,015 --> 00:14:54,602 And we get really fixated on a problem of some kind. 252 00:14:54,602 --> 00:14:58,230 And that's what Virginia Satir called the context relationally, 253 00:14:58,856 --> 00:15:03,777 two people can stop caring about their human experience 254 00:15:03,777 --> 00:15:06,947 and just fixate on something that they don't agree on. 255 00:15:07,448 --> 00:15:10,117 And that's the super reasonable, 256 00:15:10,117 --> 00:15:14,204 and sometimes we just actually we're done attending to any of it. 257 00:15:14,997 --> 00:15:17,124 And she called this irrelevant. 258 00:15:17,124 --> 00:15:21,003 This is when we might actually cut off a relationship completely. 259 00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:24,506 it can also mean that we just 260 00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:26,258 we don't 261 00:15:26,258 --> 00:15:29,595 know how to even if we're present in the same room together. 262 00:15:30,054 --> 00:15:33,140 We don't actually know how to communicate with each other. 263 00:15:34,141 --> 00:15:39,021 so the goal is that if we realize when we're in a conflict, 264 00:15:39,563 --> 00:15:43,150 what we're tending to do in coping with the conflict, 265 00:15:43,692 --> 00:15:47,029 we work really hard and prayerfully and with other people 266 00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:50,991 to add in whatever we realize we're shutting out. 267 00:15:51,241 --> 00:15:55,788 So if I would see that, oh, I'm really I'm really going to blame here. 268 00:15:55,788 --> 00:15:59,667 And I'm not letting the other person speak and I'm not letting myself hear them. 269 00:16:00,501 --> 00:16:02,044 That's my work to do. 270 00:16:02,044 --> 00:16:04,004 I need to listen more closely. 271 00:16:04,004 --> 00:16:06,882 I need to allow them to speak. 272 00:16:06,882 --> 00:16:12,012 If I realize that I'm going silent because I'm scared to speak, 273 00:16:12,012 --> 00:16:15,140 my job might actually be to start to say something. 274 00:16:17,518 --> 00:16:19,853 if we're getting super reasonable 275 00:16:19,853 --> 00:16:24,650 starting in either one or the other, but becoming more interested again 276 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:28,028 in the relationship itself, that needs to be added back in. 277 00:16:28,904 --> 00:16:32,032 And if we have completely cut off relationship, 278 00:16:33,075 --> 00:16:34,785 we can start in any of the three. 279 00:16:34,785 --> 00:16:37,788 Whatever feels safest. 280 00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:39,498 That's excellent. 281 00:16:39,498 --> 00:16:40,416 I like that. 282 00:16:40,416 --> 00:16:42,876 That's a very helpful framework. 283 00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:44,670 And I'm curious. 284 00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:50,050 So when we have peace within between and among in order and 285 00:16:51,135 --> 00:16:55,305 these things are in place both in individuals and in the community, 286 00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:59,309 what does the end result look like? 287 00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:02,354 Can you paint a picture of. Yes. 288 00:17:02,354 --> 00:17:04,481 Then what happens? Yes. 289 00:17:04,481 --> 00:17:07,568 So I know that as Christians and Anabaptists 290 00:17:07,568 --> 00:17:09,987 we know that we don't do this work all by ourself. 291 00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:11,989 This is not just self-improvement work. 292 00:17:11,989 --> 00:17:16,410 It's right in the work of repentance and prayer and all of that, 293 00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:17,703 speaking with other people. 294 00:17:18,537 --> 00:17:20,205 I think the end result is 295 00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:24,126 that we actually start experiencing the love of Jesus. 296 00:17:24,376 --> 00:17:26,378 We start experiencing it. 297 00:17:26,378 --> 00:17:31,842 And the way that it plays out is that not only are we talking about Jesus 298 00:17:31,842 --> 00:17:36,889 shedding his love abroad in our hearts, we actually are starting to engage in it. 299 00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,933 It's like opening the door so it can happen. 300 00:17:39,975 --> 00:17:44,188 So Jesus loved us first and he's inviting us to know his love 301 00:17:44,188 --> 00:17:47,858 for us and to share it all around us with everyone we meet. 302 00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:53,781 And we can learn about the context and the ideas of his love in Scripture. 303 00:17:53,781 --> 00:17:54,531 We can. 304 00:17:54,531 --> 00:17:57,493 We see it in words, and it's a longing we all have. 305 00:17:59,411 --> 00:18:03,540 but so much of the love is experienced by putting. 306 00:18:03,999 --> 00:18:07,294 I think by starting to say, okay, but these are some little pieces 307 00:18:07,294 --> 00:18:11,298 and ways that I can understand to engage with this kind of love. 308 00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:13,133 Jesus. 309 00:18:13,133 --> 00:18:16,220 Was it Peter that Jesus said, do you love me? 310 00:18:17,096 --> 00:18:18,764 And Peter's like, yes, I love you. 311 00:18:18,764 --> 00:18:21,767 And then Jesus says, well, then feed my lambs. 312 00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:25,395 So and also the love your neighbor as you love yourself. 313 00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:31,068 there's a strong correlation between the ways we are able to love people 314 00:18:31,568 --> 00:18:35,364 and the love that we are actually knowing and understanding about, about God. 315 00:18:36,281 --> 00:18:38,450 So God is the source. 316 00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:41,662 It's so connected and reflected in what we're doing with each other. 317 00:18:42,579 --> 00:18:46,542 So what does this framework mean for the way that an individual 318 00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:49,670 relates to his or her community? 319 00:18:49,795 --> 00:18:53,674 It means that we keep coming back to Christ as the one who makes peace 320 00:18:53,924 --> 00:18:58,554 inside, inside us, individually first, and then inside of our communities. 321 00:18:59,012 --> 00:19:03,934 We ask Jesus to show us our places of weakness and blindness and bitterness 322 00:19:03,934 --> 00:19:07,813 that are inside of us, not just outside of us, with others, 323 00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:11,275 because we know he told us to remove the the beam 324 00:19:11,275 --> 00:19:14,611 in our own eye before pointing out the splinter in others. 325 00:19:15,028 --> 00:19:18,407 And he also told us to leave our other offerings at the altar. 326 00:19:18,407 --> 00:19:20,367 If we have anything against someone else. 327 00:19:22,077 --> 00:19:25,080 It means that we can see things differently from each other 328 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:25,998 in our communities. 329 00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:30,127 We actually can disagree sometimes, and we don't always need to fight it out. 330 00:19:30,919 --> 00:19:33,547 We know how to forbear, to, right? 331 00:19:33,547 --> 00:19:36,300 Sometimes we have to work it out, and sometimes we just. 332 00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,303 We bear with each other and we forbear. 333 00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:42,890 it means that we wait to speak truth 334 00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,893 until we can do it with love. 335 00:19:45,976 --> 00:19:48,979 Because without love, it profits nothing. 336 00:19:49,021 --> 00:19:51,023 It means that we listen below 337 00:19:51,023 --> 00:19:54,318 each other's words for the longings that we are sharing. 338 00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:58,488 And we always remember the person of Jesus inside each other. 339 00:19:59,615 --> 00:20:02,868 And it means that when we are speaking our thoughts to another person, 340 00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:06,830 we are also committed to hearing and valuing theirs. 341 00:20:07,998 --> 00:20:11,418 As we're having this conversation, I'm trying to anticipate 342 00:20:11,418 --> 00:20:14,463 some of the objections that somebody might have. 343 00:20:15,088 --> 00:20:18,759 And I'm thinking particularly of, you know, in the framework 344 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:24,806 that you gave peace with one's self or peace 345 00:20:25,849 --> 00:20:27,559 is the preposition within 346 00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,562 is first and, 347 00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:33,106 you know, in the New Testament, 348 00:20:33,106 --> 00:20:37,069 it seems that believers are called to put the good of others 349 00:20:37,361 --> 00:20:41,615 above their own good, or to be thinking of others before oneself. 350 00:20:42,699 --> 00:20:46,328 So can you address the concern 351 00:20:46,328 --> 00:20:50,499 of maybe something being out of place or in the wrong order, 352 00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:53,961 if we're putting peace with ourself or own 353 00:20:56,713 --> 00:20:59,132 well-being first? 354 00:20:59,132 --> 00:21:00,801 I can understand why 355 00:21:00,801 --> 00:21:04,680 we're nervous about the language I really do. 356 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,892 And I've often wished that there was like other words to be used there. 357 00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:10,936 And maybe there are other words. 358 00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:16,358 it's usually it's easy to hear the language and the history of, of self 359 00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:21,863 that has pervaded psychology and view it as working against healthy community. 360 00:21:22,572 --> 00:21:26,076 and also as separate from like Christ at work in our hearts 361 00:21:26,368 --> 00:21:29,371 and where like, I think in the secular world, 362 00:21:29,371 --> 00:21:33,208 wherever self-development is viewed as the, like the end goal 363 00:21:33,208 --> 00:21:36,753 or in a vacuum, like it just happens all within one individual. 364 00:21:37,379 --> 00:21:42,175 it really does work against Christ's model of servant living and community. 365 00:21:43,051 --> 00:21:46,263 I see it somewhat as a question of where we 366 00:21:47,597 --> 00:21:48,598 again, what we're going to 367 00:21:48,598 --> 00:21:51,601 emphasize over in our reading of scriptures. 368 00:21:51,935 --> 00:21:55,105 because some of the New Testament letters do highlight 369 00:21:55,105 --> 00:21:59,234 the need for stability and like that, it's the it's a very communal language 370 00:21:59,234 --> 00:22:01,903 in the New Testament. Right. 371 00:22:01,903 --> 00:22:03,655 there's this there's this understanding 372 00:22:03,655 --> 00:22:06,658 that believers are committed to Christ and to each other. 373 00:22:06,992 --> 00:22:09,786 But then I look in the Gospels at Jesus ministry, 374 00:22:09,786 --> 00:22:13,832 and I also see him calling out the stories of individual people. 375 00:22:14,249 --> 00:22:17,377 And there are times when he's honoring individuals 376 00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:21,340 in ways that are against the communal rules. 377 00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:21,715 Right. 378 00:22:21,715 --> 00:22:25,010 There are times when he is interacting with people very differently 379 00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:28,013 than what the community expectations would ask for. 380 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,142 So he spoke to crowds, but he listened to and touched 381 00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:35,187 and felt things in relationship with individuals. 382 00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:38,190 Jesus saw himself 383 00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:42,402 and others and community all through the lens of the will of his father. 384 00:22:44,071 --> 00:22:47,449 So when the community thought that he was wrong for touching someone 385 00:22:47,449 --> 00:22:50,619 unclean or healing and gleaning wheat on the Sabbath, 386 00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:54,539 he was always orienting himself to the love of the father. 387 00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:57,959 He knew who he was, and he knew what he was there to do. 388 00:22:57,959 --> 00:23:00,962 And he was very oriented to the will of God. 389 00:23:00,962 --> 00:23:02,339 So that's like the self. 390 00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:03,507 He didn't lose him. 391 00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:07,677 His understanding of himself and what was going on while he served 392 00:23:07,677 --> 00:23:10,013 other people. 393 00:23:10,013 --> 00:23:11,431 When asked about the greatest 394 00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:14,601 of all the commandments, he didn't just distill it to one. 395 00:23:14,935 --> 00:23:18,563 He said, two are so close together they can't be separated. 396 00:23:19,272 --> 00:23:21,650 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, 397 00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:24,528 and love your neighbor in the same way you love yourself. 398 00:23:25,487 --> 00:23:26,321 And honestly, 399 00:23:26,321 --> 00:23:30,158 lately, as I as I keep living, I wonder sometimes. 400 00:23:30,492 --> 00:23:32,911 Yes, he gave it as an instruction, 401 00:23:32,911 --> 00:23:36,248 but I also wonder sometimes if it's almost like a law of gravity, 402 00:23:36,665 --> 00:23:39,793 that this is just the way it is, that to know 403 00:23:39,793 --> 00:23:45,048 the love of God shed abroad in our hearts, we have to open up ourselves 404 00:23:45,048 --> 00:23:48,385 individually, like we have to know what it's like to be loved. 405 00:23:49,511 --> 00:23:50,053 And I think 406 00:23:50,053 --> 00:23:53,932 sometimes we're working so hard at getting our loving other people right. 407 00:23:53,932 --> 00:23:55,809 But we're still not. 408 00:23:55,809 --> 00:23:58,895 We're still not completely opened up to being loved ourselves 409 00:23:59,271 --> 00:24:03,984 by letting God's love for us change us as an initial place. 410 00:24:04,401 --> 00:24:08,447 So we need to open up ourselves to taking in love all the way, 411 00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:12,951 and then we're freed up to love others out of that love. 412 00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:17,747 So this question about the worry about somehow, 413 00:24:19,499 --> 00:24:20,292 like if if 414 00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:24,296 we don't value ourselves, what kind of loving 415 00:24:24,296 --> 00:24:26,965 are we going to be doing? 416 00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:28,800 I think that's my question. 417 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,429 If if my service of others is done from a place of shame 418 00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:35,432 and not understanding my value, 419 00:24:36,308 --> 00:24:39,144 I'm not sure what kind of loving I'm doing 420 00:24:39,144 --> 00:24:42,147 and what the other person experiences from that. 421 00:24:42,814 --> 00:24:45,817 So I see the phrase of being at peace with oneself 422 00:24:45,901 --> 00:24:49,237 as very different from just selfishly taking care of myself. 423 00:24:49,237 --> 00:24:50,947 It's not a protective care. 424 00:24:50,947 --> 00:24:53,950 It's not a protective kind of loving. 425 00:24:54,409 --> 00:24:58,205 it's much more similar to having integrity 426 00:24:58,747 --> 00:25:01,291 and having awareness of Jesus love 427 00:25:01,291 --> 00:25:04,294 and then being able to take responsibility 428 00:25:04,503 --> 00:25:07,506 for others, like for myself, with others. 429 00:25:08,131 --> 00:25:10,091 When Jesus washed his disciples feet 430 00:25:10,091 --> 00:25:13,094 and he emptied himself on the cross, 431 00:25:13,136 --> 00:25:17,390 he still knew who he was and he still knew the father's love for him. 432 00:25:18,016 --> 00:25:21,019 So this losing of ourselves. 433 00:25:21,061 --> 00:25:23,688 Is not a loss of our identity. 434 00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:25,315 It's not a loss of our value 435 00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:26,900 that stays 436 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:29,903 intact, even while we're serving each other. 437 00:25:30,237 --> 00:25:32,364 It's a very good response. 438 00:25:32,364 --> 00:25:35,951 A bit earlier in this conversation you mentioned that you work as a coach. 439 00:25:36,493 --> 00:25:40,080 can you tell us about that, how you got into it 440 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,707 and what this work involves. 441 00:25:42,707 --> 00:25:44,501 Sure. A little bit about that. 442 00:25:44,501 --> 00:25:48,380 when I finished up my university coursework, 443 00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:50,799 I wasn't certain how I was going to use my learnings. 444 00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:53,718 At that point we were still, I was certainly using them 445 00:25:53,718 --> 00:25:54,761 congregationally. 446 00:25:54,761 --> 00:25:57,764 So many people in our congregation at that time 447 00:25:57,764 --> 00:26:01,393 were conversation partners for me while I was in that learning process. 448 00:26:01,768 --> 00:26:03,728 But we were also moving away. 449 00:26:03,728 --> 00:26:07,941 We were moving from Canada to the US at that time, and so I decided to wait 450 00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:12,112 until we had successfully moved, and I had received a green card 451 00:26:12,112 --> 00:26:15,657 to start figuring out what to do from there. 452 00:26:16,032 --> 00:26:18,952 But then the pandemic entered the picture, 453 00:26:18,952 --> 00:26:23,039 and, my husband's sources of income, were drying up. 454 00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:27,294 And, he's a composer, so, like, choirs weren't meeting and they weren't 455 00:26:27,294 --> 00:26:31,840 buying his music to sing, and everyone was being locked down in our own homes. 456 00:26:31,881 --> 00:26:36,720 And so once again, Wendell asked me if I would consider 457 00:26:37,178 --> 00:26:41,308 just seeing if people if there was a need for online coaching. 458 00:26:41,725 --> 00:26:43,184 So I didn't have my license yet. 459 00:26:43,184 --> 00:26:46,187 I'm not a licensed counselor, so hence the coaching. 460 00:26:46,646 --> 00:26:50,442 and he just wanted me to see if there was a need or a wish for it. 461 00:26:50,984 --> 00:26:53,528 And I was tentative about that. 462 00:26:53,528 --> 00:26:56,406 I wondered how it would even work to talk to people on a screen 463 00:26:56,406 --> 00:26:57,365 instead of in person. 464 00:26:57,365 --> 00:27:00,535 And how would how would that be helpful to them? 465 00:27:00,910 --> 00:27:05,832 And I worried that it would be stilted and difficult to care for people that way. 466 00:27:06,583 --> 00:27:10,378 but as happens so often, limitations can give birth 467 00:27:10,378 --> 00:27:13,882 to new the new, opportunities. 468 00:27:14,507 --> 00:27:19,763 So I posted once on Facebook with a link to a simple web page and 469 00:27:20,722 --> 00:27:21,181 found out 470 00:27:21,181 --> 00:27:24,184 that there is a need and there is a desire, 471 00:27:24,517 --> 00:27:28,104 and that there are many Anabaptist women who are saying to me, 472 00:27:28,438 --> 00:27:29,939 you know, I've wanted 473 00:27:29,939 --> 00:27:33,568 I've wanted to receive care and help for a long time, but I didn't know. 474 00:27:34,110 --> 00:27:36,446 I didn't know where to go. 475 00:27:36,446 --> 00:27:38,907 and so this is accessible for them. 476 00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:42,661 So in online coaching, maybe I function with coaching. 477 00:27:42,661 --> 00:27:45,997 I function a little more like the family doctor does in the medical world, 478 00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:51,086 because I'm not the therapist for a lot of the traumatic needs that people have. 479 00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:56,591 But, clients will inquire with many different questions and needs. 480 00:27:56,591 --> 00:28:01,137 And sometimes I have the skills to guide and support them toward their goals. 481 00:28:01,137 --> 00:28:04,432 But it's really important that I know when I don't have the skills. 482 00:28:05,308 --> 00:28:09,437 And so during those times, I'm also looking to help guide them 483 00:28:09,437 --> 00:28:13,525 and maybe suggest other supports for them with what they're experiencing. 484 00:28:13,858 --> 00:28:16,528 That is commonly that commonly happens 485 00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:21,241 depending on the mental health needs and just what's all happening for them. 486 00:28:22,409 --> 00:28:25,745 Other times we talk together about, 487 00:28:27,497 --> 00:28:30,875 about some of the things that can support and that is often, 488 00:28:31,084 --> 00:28:34,045 like mood disorders, 489 00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:37,048 things like depression, anxiety. 490 00:28:37,132 --> 00:28:40,135 sometimes OCD, so obsessive thinking. 491 00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:44,055 I also support women who are in difficult marriages, 492 00:28:44,055 --> 00:28:47,183 or they're pursuing freedom from their own addictions. 493 00:28:48,268 --> 00:28:52,105 Some clients want a supportive place to look back at a certain 494 00:28:52,105 --> 00:28:56,025 grief or trauma and gain understanding and healing. 495 00:28:56,693 --> 00:28:59,821 and sometimes they're they're looking for places 496 00:28:59,821 --> 00:29:03,158 to talk about their questions, about their faith and what they're 497 00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:06,161 wondering about in their relationship with the Lord. 498 00:29:06,494 --> 00:29:10,999 I also have offered training to other Mennonite women who are interested in, 499 00:29:11,708 --> 00:29:14,461 growing in their listening skills 500 00:29:14,461 --> 00:29:17,672 or their abilities to care for people in their congregations. 501 00:29:17,672 --> 00:29:20,341 And that is particularly close to my heart. 502 00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:23,636 It's been such an honor to prepare other women 503 00:29:23,636 --> 00:29:26,723 who want to give good care in their congregations. 504 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:31,770 I receive way more inquiries for care than what I can get to on my own, 505 00:29:31,770 --> 00:29:34,773 and it's been a delight to match the needs of clients 506 00:29:35,064 --> 00:29:38,067 with the strengths of other mentors who are available. 507 00:29:39,444 --> 00:29:42,447 So that's some of the stuff that happens. 508 00:29:42,781 --> 00:29:43,573 Yeah. 509 00:29:43,573 --> 00:29:49,120 Well that's good as you have worked as a coach. 510 00:29:49,579 --> 00:29:52,749 what's the biggest thing that you have learned 511 00:29:53,416 --> 00:29:58,463 and the greatest need that you have become most passionate about? 512 00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:59,506 Right. 513 00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:03,927 It's really hard to distill right to the most passionate and the greatest need. 514 00:30:03,927 --> 00:30:06,471 But I did think of a few things here. 515 00:30:06,471 --> 00:30:10,141 I've learned that there are endless ways to suffer. 516 00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:12,352 We don't all suffer the same way. 517 00:30:12,352 --> 00:30:14,938 There's so many ways to suffer. 518 00:30:14,938 --> 00:30:17,315 And alongside that, I've learned 519 00:30:17,315 --> 00:30:20,860 and seen how God gives us a large capacity 520 00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:24,823 to live and love and follow him while we're suffering, 521 00:30:26,491 --> 00:30:29,911 and that having compassionate witnesses in our suffering 522 00:30:30,203 --> 00:30:33,331 is something that God is asking us to provide for each other. 523 00:30:33,873 --> 00:30:38,127 Even if we can't fix the suffering or always take it away or make it stop. 524 00:30:38,962 --> 00:30:41,256 There is a there's a strength 525 00:30:41,256 --> 00:30:44,634 that comes by witnessing and bearing each other's burdens. 526 00:30:45,593 --> 00:30:46,010 So we 527 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:49,347 lean on Christ together and we trust him together, 528 00:30:50,014 --> 00:30:55,019 even while we are suffering and that is so different from everybody 529 00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:58,898 being frantic about fixing it or making everything go away. 530 00:30:59,732 --> 00:31:02,735 because suffering is a part of living, 531 00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:05,530 and I am passionate about Christian women 532 00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:08,533 bringing their health to their churches and their communities. 533 00:31:08,992 --> 00:31:11,035 I've come to care a great deal 534 00:31:11,035 --> 00:31:14,831 about the strengths in the Anabaptist women that I'm meeting with. 535 00:31:14,873 --> 00:31:18,001 They have learned so much in their lifetimes, 536 00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:21,004 but they are not just learning for their own sake. 537 00:31:21,170 --> 00:31:23,965 They're eager to grow so that they can be healthier 538 00:31:23,965 --> 00:31:28,219 for their husbands and their families and their friends and their churches. 539 00:31:29,012 --> 00:31:31,222 And though there's often a need to understand 540 00:31:31,222 --> 00:31:34,267 the past, there's always deep desire toward God 541 00:31:34,684 --> 00:31:38,104 and a desire to share what they're learning out with other people. 542 00:31:38,771 --> 00:31:42,442 And I have a hope that Anabaptist churches will open up 543 00:31:42,609 --> 00:31:45,445 new ways to receive women. 544 00:31:45,445 --> 00:31:48,531 to be involved in caring ministries in their congregations. 545 00:31:48,948 --> 00:31:54,871 Following after examples of Phoebe and Priscilla and Lydia and others in Scripture. 546 00:31:56,581 --> 00:31:58,291 That is an excellent vision. 547 00:31:58,291 --> 00:32:01,294 Thank you. 548 00:32:01,711 --> 00:32:04,923 I think in a previous conversation or perhaps an email, 549 00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:09,302 you said that there is a pervasive sense 550 00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:12,472 within women that their thoughts and ideas 551 00:32:12,472 --> 00:32:15,475 are more likely dangerous than helpful. 552 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:18,895 This makes me sad. 553 00:32:18,895 --> 00:32:22,315 And I understand that is something that you also are 554 00:32:22,315 --> 00:32:25,318 interested in combating. 555 00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:27,946 So I'm curious how you encourage women 556 00:32:27,946 --> 00:32:32,200 to find a better regard for their own contributions. 557 00:32:33,242 --> 00:32:37,163 And I'm open to any kind of answer that you have for this. 558 00:32:38,247 --> 00:32:41,209 but I would be particularly interested in hearing 559 00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:44,045 how the Bible can address this fear. 560 00:32:44,045 --> 00:32:46,130 Yes. well, 561 00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:50,385 I hope to see men and women sharing their conversations of reflection on 562 00:32:50,385 --> 00:32:54,681 God's work in their lives and what they're learning in their reading of Scripture. 563 00:32:54,681 --> 00:32:59,769 So I, I envision a way that we would be comfortable, men and women. 564 00:32:59,769 --> 00:33:03,106 But I realize that in our, Anabaptist context, 565 00:33:03,106 --> 00:33:08,236 we are, we're very attentive to teachings about who women maybe can or cannot, 566 00:33:09,028 --> 00:33:13,324 maybe what our spheres for speaking that out are right in a church context. 567 00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:18,287 so even this conversation is so valuable to me. 568 00:33:18,329 --> 00:33:19,789 It was an honor to sit. 569 00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:23,334 It's just an honor to sit with you and be trusted. 570 00:33:24,419 --> 00:33:27,755 I think that a lot of women in our Mennonite churches are, 571 00:33:28,131 --> 00:33:31,592 whether they've been taught it or whether it's just sort of 572 00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:34,804 in the air in other ways. 573 00:33:34,804 --> 00:33:39,350 We're very aware of verses in the Bible, like about Eve being deceived first. 574 00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:40,143 Right. 575 00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:44,939 And, that we're to be silent in church and that we're supposed to be submissive. 576 00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:50,278 And so we hear those things, and I'm not trying to do away with those instructions, 577 00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:56,409 but when I look at Scripture as a whole and I look at women in those scriptures, 578 00:33:57,243 --> 00:34:01,039 there's this emphasis on women being, silent in church, 579 00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,457 submissive to own husbands. 580 00:34:02,457 --> 00:34:05,168 And Eve was deceived, not Adam. 581 00:34:05,168 --> 00:34:08,588 And then we're not sure if the accounts of, like, Esther 582 00:34:08,963 --> 00:34:12,091 and Deborah and Hannah and Elizabeth 583 00:34:12,258 --> 00:34:17,930 and Mary and Lydia and Priscilla, or the women who followed Jesus during 584 00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:21,601 his ministry, can actually like, do they balance out 585 00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:25,104 those other warnings about who we are or how do we hold them both? 586 00:34:25,146 --> 00:34:30,568 I think so often when I'm looking at when I'm teaching women, about 587 00:34:31,569 --> 00:34:32,445 the value that 588 00:34:32,445 --> 00:34:35,448 Christ places on them as well in the church, 589 00:34:35,698 --> 00:34:38,701 those are the stories that we're starting to talk about more. 590 00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,413 another one that I, another text that I look 591 00:34:42,413 --> 00:34:45,416 at is, Genesis one and two. 592 00:34:46,334 --> 00:34:51,297 So if the church, if we're all we want to, if we want to reflect as much of God's 593 00:34:51,297 --> 00:34:56,260 original design in this life as possible, I think that's true. 594 00:34:56,260 --> 00:34:59,263 Like, what did God design us to do and to be? 595 00:35:00,932 --> 00:35:03,101 and when we look at his intent 596 00:35:03,101 --> 00:35:07,480 for male and female in Genesis one and two, it's just 597 00:35:08,022 --> 00:35:11,818 I think I'm just pointing this out here that the chapter one account 598 00:35:11,859 --> 00:35:14,821 talks about God creating male and female 599 00:35:15,321 --> 00:35:18,157 with the intent that they would have dominion together. 600 00:35:18,157 --> 00:35:19,158 Like, there's a 601 00:35:19,158 --> 00:35:23,079 there's a very mutual language in chapter one about how he creates 602 00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:26,415 male and female, and he gives them the earth to take care of together. 603 00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:27,875 And then in 604 00:35:27,875 --> 00:35:31,003 chapter two, the narrative is a little different 605 00:35:31,003 --> 00:35:34,590 because God creates Adam first in that account, 606 00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:38,344 and then he says, it's not good for man to do this alone. 607 00:35:38,594 --> 00:35:42,682 And so he creates a helper, and his helper is a woman. 608 00:35:43,474 --> 00:35:46,602 And, I still remember hearing a Jewish, 609 00:35:46,811 --> 00:35:50,439 professor talk about that word helpmeet. 610 00:35:51,274 --> 00:35:54,193 And I know what's in our background for helpmeet. 611 00:35:54,193 --> 00:35:57,697 but the Jewish professor was talking 612 00:35:57,697 --> 00:36:00,700 about how the meaning of this word, 613 00:36:01,325 --> 00:36:05,621 part of it is this idea of being in contrast to and being against, 614 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,209 not against in a, in a way of conflict, although there's plenty of it, 615 00:36:10,251 --> 00:36:15,548 sometimes between male and female, but more it's like like the, 616 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,135 like the supportive role, like the tent or the tripod 617 00:36:19,552 --> 00:36:24,640 that that God didn't intend for men to stand by themselves. 618 00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:28,644 There's this understanding that male and female were created to stand together 619 00:36:29,228 --> 00:36:32,648 and be very supportive alongside of each other, 620 00:36:32,648 --> 00:36:35,651 and that's the help, the help-meet. 621 00:36:36,277 --> 00:36:37,195 What kind of help? 622 00:36:37,195 --> 00:36:40,072 Well, a very different kind of help, probably 623 00:36:40,072 --> 00:36:41,616 with a very different perspective. 624 00:36:41,616 --> 00:36:44,744 Sometimes, but meant to keep things 625 00:36:44,744 --> 00:36:48,247 in a sense of peace or shalom or stability. 626 00:36:49,832 --> 00:36:50,833 So I wonder about 627 00:36:50,833 --> 00:36:53,836 that in Genesis one and two. 628 00:36:53,961 --> 00:36:58,591 Perhaps from the very beginning, God understood that two parts are always 629 00:36:58,591 --> 00:37:03,429 needed for balance, and that one part will never remain in balance alone. 630 00:37:04,722 --> 00:37:08,184 Then when we read through the New Testament and we watch closely 631 00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:12,104 for the presence of women, there are a lot of there are a lot of, 632 00:37:13,064 --> 00:37:16,067 messages of hope, I think, for Christian women. 633 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,613 I still remember the first time I noticed the short phrases in the Gospels 634 00:37:20,613 --> 00:37:24,492 about the women who followed Jesus from Galilee and realized 635 00:37:24,492 --> 00:37:28,287 that all my life I just pictured it like Jesus and a group of men. 636 00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:31,832 It was just Jesus and his 12 disciples doing all this amazing stuff. 637 00:37:32,416 --> 00:37:35,753 But when I realized that there were women that were traveling with them 638 00:37:36,087 --> 00:37:39,757 and were attending to their needs and were part of this ministry as well, 639 00:37:39,757 --> 00:37:43,552 I think the phrase is that they ministered to him from their substance. 640 00:37:45,137 --> 00:37:48,057 That was a, that was like a fireworks for me, right? 641 00:37:48,057 --> 00:37:50,977 Because, oh, they were there too. 642 00:37:50,977 --> 00:37:53,312 They were very much a part of this. 643 00:37:53,312 --> 00:37:55,815 then I think about Romans 644 00:37:55,815 --> 00:37:59,944 16, where Paul is sending greetings to multiple women 645 00:37:59,944 --> 00:38:02,989 like he's saying, greet this woman because she labored long 646 00:38:02,989 --> 00:38:06,701 in the Lord and greet this woman who was in the Lord before me. 647 00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:11,163 And, he's sending these greetings to women in the community 648 00:38:12,123 --> 00:38:14,542 and realizing that whatever Paul meant 649 00:38:14,542 --> 00:38:18,546 by women being submissive or silent in church 650 00:38:18,546 --> 00:38:22,258 services, he did not see them as uninvolved in the church. 651 00:38:22,258 --> 00:38:25,261 He saw them as very involved and very important 652 00:38:25,761 --> 00:38:28,764 presence in the Christian community. 653 00:38:30,099 --> 00:38:32,351 So I consider these things 654 00:38:32,351 --> 00:38:35,354 when I'm encouraging women to bring their thoughts 655 00:38:35,438 --> 00:38:38,357 and to bring their concerns and their ideas 656 00:38:38,357 --> 00:38:42,236 to conversation with men in their homes and in their churches. 657 00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:45,865 So, of course, first to their husbands, but then as they're invited 658 00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:50,745 to be willing to share their thoughts, with men in their communities, 659 00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:52,705 we talk about 660 00:38:52,705 --> 00:38:55,916 how we're not this isn't about taking anything away from men. 661 00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:59,170 It's never about trying to take something away. 662 00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:03,507 It's it's the desire to be part of something together. 663 00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:09,221 And I encourage women to join conversations and help men in their lives. 664 00:39:09,221 --> 00:39:12,266 And always doing this also from a posture of love. 665 00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:17,438 Because if we fight to have a voice, it's still profits nothing, right? 666 00:39:17,938 --> 00:39:22,193 So we come with a desire to be with 667 00:39:22,985 --> 00:39:25,988 in our communities, but always from a posture of love. 668 00:39:27,114 --> 00:39:29,492 As male and female, we're called by Jesus 669 00:39:29,492 --> 00:39:33,037 to serve together, and this involves hearing from each other 670 00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:37,083 and having challenging but peaceful conversations together. 671 00:39:38,209 --> 00:39:41,212 and I'm really grateful for this one. 672 00:39:41,504 --> 00:39:43,756 Yeah. 673 00:39:43,756 --> 00:39:47,551 And it's a genuine honor to have you join us for this conversation. 674 00:39:47,802 --> 00:39:50,513 We're delighted that you're able to be here for this conversation, and 675 00:39:51,555 --> 00:39:53,432 we're going to record another one after this. 676 00:39:53,432 --> 00:39:55,184 So we're glad that you're on that one, too. 677 00:39:55,184 --> 00:39:56,644 Thank you. 678 00:39:56,644 --> 00:39:59,814 Before we end this conversation, is there anything else that you would like 679 00:39:59,814 --> 00:40:02,817 to add or resources that you could recommend to our audience? 680 00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:08,447 Well, for anybody who's interested in looking more at what I had on the 681 00:40:08,447 --> 00:40:12,284 small whiteboard, if you want to read more about that from a Christian perspective. 682 00:40:12,618 --> 00:40:18,165 Mark and Debbie Laaser wrote a book called “Seven Desires”, and the subtitle 683 00:40:18,165 --> 00:40:21,836 is “Looking Past what separates us to learn what Connects us”. 684 00:40:22,211 --> 00:40:23,295 And it's done from a Christian. 685 00:40:23,295 --> 00:40:25,005 It's written from a Christian perspective, 686 00:40:25,005 --> 00:40:28,884 but they also talk about the teachings of Virginia Satir. 687 00:40:29,301 --> 00:40:33,597 So for people who are interested in reading more, they could read this book. 688 00:40:34,306 --> 00:40:34,932 Well, excellent. 689 00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:36,392 Thank you for the recommendation. 690 00:40:36,392 --> 00:40:39,228 And again, thank you for joining us for this conversation. 691 00:40:39,228 --> 00:40:40,354 You’re welcome. 692 00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:44,275 Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 693 00:40:44,275 --> 00:40:47,736 For the complete library of the blog posts and episodes that we have published, 694 00:40:48,070 --> 00:40:51,157 visit anabaptistperspectives.org 695 00:45:30,644 --> 00:45:33,063 Are you feeling inspired? 696 00:45:33,063 --> 00:45:36,066 And where do you today? 697 00:45:36,942 --> 00:45:39,111 What is peace within oneself and with others? 698 00:45:39,111 --> 00:45:42,531 Have to do with the peace and well-being of the community? 699 00:45:46,493 --> 00:45:47,911 So, I don't know, for a hook. 700 00:45:47,911 --> 00:45:49,997 Does that 701 00:45:49,997 --> 00:45:53,000 raise a question and capture attention? 702 00:45:56,754 --> 00:45:58,046 Okay, we'll go with that. 703 00:45:58,046 --> 00:46:00,299 If it doesn't work, maybe Carl can find 704 00:46:00,299 --> 00:46:03,302 something from later on in the episode I was first. 705 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:04,052 Yeah. 706 00:46:04,052 --> 00:46:07,055 for the second one, many people have experienced trauma. 707 00:46:08,557 --> 00:46:10,851 Many people have experienced trauma. 708 00:46:10,851 --> 00:46:13,854 How can Christians support those who have been traumatized? 709 00:46:14,062 --> 00:46:17,065 How can churches offer a loving care? 710 00:46:21,403 --> 00:46:23,864 You have thoughts on 711 00:46:23,864 --> 00:46:24,323 on that? 712 00:46:29,995 --> 00:46:32,998 Yeah. 713 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,086 Maybe 714 00:46:38,086 --> 00:46:41,465 my only my suggestion maybe to frame that 715 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,053 to those looking on the person who is experiencing trauma may seem odd 716 00:46:46,804 --> 00:46:50,307 or struggling and necessarily, 717 00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:54,353 how do we relate to people's home 718 00:46:54,353 --> 00:46:57,356 coma and help them, 719 00:46:57,898 --> 00:47:00,859 forward rather than pushing them further 720 00:47:01,985 --> 00:47:04,988 in something like that would help 721 00:47:04,988 --> 00:47:07,991 frame the tension. 722 00:47:08,742 --> 00:47:10,536 Yeah, yeah. 723 00:47:10,536 --> 00:47:13,539 See if I can find some words for that. 724 00:47:34,685 --> 00:47:37,521 How's this for those looking on? 725 00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:42,442 Those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily. 726 00:47:43,068 --> 00:47:45,988 How can Christians support those who have been traumatized 727 00:47:45,988 --> 00:47:48,866 rather than driving their suffering deeper? 728 00:47:48,866 --> 00:47:51,076 How can churches offer loving care? 729 00:47:51,076 --> 00:47:52,369 Okay. 730 00:47:52,369 --> 00:47:54,079 Does that capture what you were suggesting? 731 00:47:54,079 --> 00:47:56,039 I think yes, yes. Yeah. 732 00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:57,833 Very well, I like that. 733 00:47:57,833 --> 00:47:58,250 Yeah. 734 00:47:58,250 --> 00:48:01,253 That is an improvement. 735 00:48:06,675 --> 00:48:10,012 Shall we, should we do these first and then think about the outros? 736 00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:11,305 Sure. 737 00:48:11,305 --> 00:48:13,807 Where shall I be and where shall I look? 738 00:48:13,807 --> 00:48:15,392 Are we still recording? 739 00:48:15,392 --> 00:48:17,060 Oh, we're capturing all of this. Okay. 740 00:48:18,896 --> 00:48:21,899 Sorry, Carl. 741 00:48:22,941 --> 00:48:25,944 This. 742 00:48:26,278 --> 00:48:26,695 yeah. 743 00:48:26,695 --> 00:48:30,741 Once you get settled, I'll adjust and I'll be at all. 744 00:48:30,741 --> 00:48:32,784 Okay, then you'll be good here. 745 00:48:32,784 --> 00:48:34,995 Okay. 746 00:48:34,995 --> 00:48:35,829 That's pretty fun. 747 00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:38,248 That's pretty funny. 748 00:48:38,248 --> 00:48:39,833 Do you think the iPad is distracting to have it 749 00:48:39,833 --> 00:48:41,126 vertically rather than laying down. 750 00:48:41,126 --> 00:48:42,085 On this camera? 751 00:48:42,085 --> 00:48:44,922 So I think, oh, okay. Good. 752 00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:48,634 So Carl, this is the intro for the first episode, 753 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,970 which is about peaceful relationships. 754 00:48:58,226 --> 00:49:00,812 What does peace within oneself 755 00:49:00,812 --> 00:49:03,649 and with others have to do with the peace 756 00:49:03,649 --> 00:49:06,652 and well-being of the community? 757 00:49:13,408 --> 00:49:16,078 What does peace within oneself 758 00:49:16,078 --> 00:49:19,998 and with others have to do with the peace and well-being 759 00:49:20,165 --> 00:49:23,168 of the larger community? 760 00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:25,754 Okay. 761 00:49:25,754 --> 00:49:27,714 You're good. Okay. 762 00:49:27,714 --> 00:49:32,219 And this is the intro for the second episode with Janelle Glick. 763 00:49:32,886 --> 00:49:34,763 it's the one about 764 00:49:35,847 --> 00:49:38,809 trauma and trauma informed churches. 765 00:49:45,232 --> 00:49:47,484 For those looking on, 766 00:49:47,484 --> 00:49:51,530 those who have experienced trauma may be suffering unnecessarily. 767 00:49:52,489 --> 00:49:55,492 How can Christians support those who have experienced trauma 768 00:49:55,617 --> 00:49:58,578 rather than driving their suffering deeper? 769 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,083 How can churches offer a loving care? 770 00:50:07,379 --> 00:50:10,382 How does that wording turn on the first sentence? 771 00:50:11,550 --> 00:50:12,592 For those looking. 772 00:50:12,592 --> 00:50:13,301 For those looking 773 00:50:13,301 --> 00:50:17,764 on, those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily. 774 00:50:17,848 --> 00:50:20,100 Yeah. Is there a way we can frame that more clearly? 775 00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:21,476 No. That was that was good. 776 00:50:21,476 --> 00:50:24,938 I mean, I didn't hear you say the word appear, so I was, 777 00:50:26,189 --> 00:50:29,067 was oh, 778 00:50:29,067 --> 00:50:29,526 okay. 779 00:50:29,526 --> 00:50:32,362 I mean, that would be bad news to leave that out. Yeah. 780 00:50:32,362 --> 00:50:35,490 so, Carl, make sure that the word appears in the first sentence, 781 00:50:35,490 --> 00:50:37,659 and I'll try again and try to get the words right. 782 00:50:37,659 --> 00:50:42,497 And maybe start with to those looking on, rather than for those looking, 783 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,126 okay, I think I might be a little more clear and less. 784 00:50:46,126 --> 00:50:47,335 That's not chromatically. 785 00:50:47,335 --> 00:50:50,964 No, that's grammatically good and I think probably clear. 786 00:50:51,506 --> 00:50:52,716 So I will try again. 787 00:50:55,761 --> 00:50:57,679 To those looking on, 788 00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:01,850 those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily. 789 00:51:02,893 --> 00:51:06,354 How can Christians support those who have experienced trauma 790 00:51:06,605 --> 00:51:09,608 rather than driving the suffering deeper? 791 00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:12,861 How can churches respond? 792 00:51:14,196 --> 00:51:15,781 That sound good? 793 00:51:15,781 --> 00:51:17,240 Okay, 794 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,243 you go one more, run your good. 795 00:51:23,288 --> 00:51:25,165 To those looking on, 796 00:51:25,165 --> 00:51:28,168 those who have experienced trauma may appear 797 00:51:28,293 --> 00:51:31,296 to be suffering unnecessarily. 798 00:51:31,713 --> 00:51:33,173 How can 799 00:51:33,173 --> 00:51:36,176 how can Christian support those who have experienced trauma 800 00:51:36,968 --> 00:51:39,930 rather than driving the suffering deeper? 801 00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:42,933 How can churches respond? 802 00:51:47,145 --> 00:51:50,148 Okay, then for the outros. 803 00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:55,237 You had some words 804 00:51:56,321 --> 00:51:58,824 to thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 805 00:51:58,824 --> 00:52:00,075 Is that the kind of thing we say? 806 00:52:00,075 --> 00:52:02,911 Greg Spiel is like, thank you for watching this episode. 807 00:52:02,911 --> 00:52:05,872 We hope you enjoyed it. 808 00:52:05,872 --> 00:52:07,582 If you want to learn more about this, 809 00:52:07,582 --> 00:52:10,877 we have such so Such episode link below. 810 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,296 as always, 811 00:52:13,296 --> 00:52:16,299 you can see all of our content on our website. 812 00:52:16,299 --> 00:52:20,971 Yeah, we got in about society.org. You. 813 00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:24,224 I don't know if there's any more 814 00:52:24,224 --> 00:52:27,227 filler and. 815 00:52:28,103 --> 00:52:29,062 Thank you for watching 816 00:52:29,062 --> 00:52:32,065 and we will catch you in the next. 817 00:52:32,691 --> 00:52:35,694 Series. 818 00:52:42,492 --> 00:52:43,577 this is 819 00:52:43,577 --> 00:52:46,454 we've never done episodes about the peace of relationships. 820 00:52:46,454 --> 00:52:48,290 One before that that's unique. 821 00:52:48,290 --> 00:52:51,168 So I don't think I'll reference any others. 822 00:52:51,168 --> 00:52:54,087 What if I would say something like, thank you for watching this episode 823 00:52:54,087 --> 00:52:57,924 of Anabaptist Perspectives, for the complete library of the blog posts 824 00:52:57,924 --> 00:53:01,720 and episodes that we have published, visit Anabaptist perspectives.org. 825 00:53:04,306 --> 00:53:07,058 That's that's brief. 826 00:53:07,058 --> 00:53:09,728 Does it sound unnaturally brief? 827 00:53:09,728 --> 00:53:12,606 So okay, 828 00:53:12,606 --> 00:53:15,609 so to. 829 00:54:10,121 --> 00:54:10,664 Okay. 830 00:54:10,664 --> 00:54:12,749 I think you've got something ready for both. 831 00:54:12,749 --> 00:54:15,001 And we're still recording. 832 00:54:15,001 --> 00:54:18,338 Okay, so, Carl, this is the outro for our 833 00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:22,550 episode one about peace and relationships. 834 00:54:28,556 --> 00:54:31,559 Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 835 00:54:31,810 --> 00:54:35,272 For the complete library of the blog posts and episodes that we have published, 836 00:54:35,605 --> 00:54:38,692 visit anabaptistperspectives.org 837 00:54:44,739 --> 00:54:47,117 Thank you for watching this episode with Janelle. 838 00:54:47,117 --> 00:54:51,413 Click for the complete collection of episodes and blog posts 839 00:54:51,413 --> 00:54:52,580 that we have published. 840 00:54:52,580 --> 00:54:55,583 Visit and a Baptist perspectives.org. 841 00:54:57,460 --> 00:54:59,838 So that sound 842 00:54:59,838 --> 00:55:01,047 semi-natural. 843 00:55:01,047 --> 00:55:03,216 Okay, we'll stop there. 844 00:55:03,216 --> 00:55:06,761 And Carl, this is the outro for the second episode with Janelle 845 00:55:06,761 --> 00:55:09,764 Glick about trauma. 846 00:55:12,892 --> 00:55:13,310 Thank you 847 00:55:13,310 --> 00:55:16,354 for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 848 00:55:17,063 --> 00:55:20,108 This is the second episode that we have recorded with Janelle Glick 849 00:55:20,734 --> 00:55:23,737 for her first. 850 00:55:34,706 --> 00:55:35,123 Thank you 851 00:55:35,123 --> 00:55:38,126 for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 852 00:55:38,376 --> 00:55:41,963 This is the second episode that we have recorded with Janelle Glick. 853 00:55:42,922 --> 00:55:44,215 You can find the link to her 854 00:55:44,215 --> 00:55:47,385 first episode with us about peace and relationships below. 855 00:55:48,011 --> 00:55:51,723 For the complete library of blog posts and episodes that we have published, 856 00:55:52,015 --> 00:55:55,018 visit Anabaptist perspectives.org. 857 00:55:56,603 --> 00:55:57,729 That sounds good. 858 00:55:57,729 --> 00:56:00,273 Okay. 859 00:56:00,273 --> 00:56:03,276 I think it's everything done. 860 00:56:03,276 --> 00:56:06,279 Thank you. Yes. 861 00:56:11,368 --> 00:56:12,827 Two hours is a long time. 862 00:56:12,827 --> 00:56:15,830 I try to, you know, conversation. 863 00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:18,333 It is. It's tired. 864 00:56:18,333 --> 00:56:21,336 I'm sure. 865 00:56:21,669 --> 00:56:22,462 Hopefully I. 866 00:56:22,462 --> 00:56:23,421 Don't look entirely. 867 00:56:23,421 --> 00:56:26,424 Dazed. Yes. 868 00:56:27,717 --> 00:56:30,095 where do we go from here? 869 00:56:30,095 --> 00:56:33,098 I guess we need to get the footage to the server. 870 00:56:33,431 --> 00:56:36,935 Have you had success uploading or showing? 871 00:56:37,018 --> 00:56:40,063 I have, that now. 872 00:56:40,563 --> 00:56:44,067 Myron had sent me a couple one time links. 873 00:56:44,275 --> 00:56:47,320 Yeah, previously, but then they did create an account for me. 874 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,865 But I had some difficulty logging in. 875 00:56:50,907 --> 00:56:54,119 I did get a password and such set up, and then, 876 00:56:54,744 --> 00:56:58,581 kind of, 877 00:56:59,749 --> 00:57:03,503 something happened that I needed to do a reset and had some difficulty with. 878 00:57:03,503 --> 00:57:06,047 So I just need to get back in touch with Myron and have him 879 00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:09,008 help me. 880 00:57:09,008 --> 00:57:10,760 with whatever 881 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,888 technical issue was going on with the password reset, and I'll. 882 00:57:13,888 --> 00:57:16,683 I'll be able to upload it to the server. 883 00:57:16,683 --> 00:57:19,310 So I think I can do whatever needs 884 00:57:19,310 --> 00:57:22,313 to be done with the footage is okay in terms of uploading. 885 00:57:23,231 --> 00:57:23,481 Yeah. 886 00:57:23,481 --> 00:57:26,276 Well, let me, let me know if you run into any trouble and, 887 00:57:26,276 --> 00:57:29,195 we can try to find another method. 888 00:57:29,195 --> 00:57:30,321 Sure. 889 00:57:30,321 --> 00:57:33,658 I mean, the other method would be physical hard drive and mail or something, 890 00:57:33,658 --> 00:57:36,661 but we'll try to make sure that something works. 891 00:57:36,786 --> 00:57:38,788 Yeah, and. 892 00:57:38,788 --> 00:57:40,623 Should be fine. 893 00:57:40,623 --> 00:57:43,626 You can submit invoices to Marlon. 894 00:57:44,878 --> 00:57:47,881 Suppose that's familiar. Yep. 895 00:57:48,548 --> 00:57:50,675 Anything else that. 896 00:57:50,675 --> 00:57:52,218 Would be helpful for me? 897 00:57:52,218 --> 00:57:54,095 No. Okay. I think we're good to go. 898 00:57:54,095 --> 00:57:56,764 I shall probably head out then, but thank you so much. Yes. 899 00:57:56,764 --> 00:58:01,519 Appreciate your time and yeah, technical things and the elaborate beautiful setup. 900 00:58:03,354 --> 00:58:06,649 Yes. So the rest of today two 901 00:58:06,858 --> 00:59:15,176 things. To.