I think the end result is
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that we actually start experiencing
the love of Jesus.
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We start experiencing it.
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And the way that it plays out is that not
only are we talking about Jesus
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shedding his love abroad in our hearts,
we actually are starting to engage in it.
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It's like opening the door
so it can happen.
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Thank you for joining us for this episode,
Janelle.
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To begin,
can you introduce yourself to us?
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Sure.
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I'll try to think of a few things to say.
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I'm in my mid 40s
and I have four children.
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some in early teenage years
and some still in elementary school.
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And, my family lives in Meadville here
in Pennsylvania, and,
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so I'm busy with home life,
but I am also currently
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doing up to 15 hours
a week of, online coaching
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and some in-person coaching,
primarily with Anabaptist women
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who are noticing that they have a need
for more support in their lives.
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Excellent.
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Tell us how you became invested
in peaceful relationships.
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Well, like most things happen,
one step just led to the next.
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So one small step at a time.
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years ago, when my husband was first
ordained as a deacon
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and we served as youth pastors
in a fairly large Mennonite congregation
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and also cared for adult members
in the congregation.
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he and I both became keenly aware
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of our lack of understanding and ability
in helping members in our congregation
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who had stories that went beyond the,
Maybe we would say, like the more
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normal griefs or the more understood
kinds of griefs and experiences.
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some of the stories involved,
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trauma, which I know
we'll be talking about in a later episode.
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and other kinds of,
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well, stories that would have involved
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emotional neglect, some sexual
or emotional or spiritual abuses.
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And these people were struggling
to feel at home
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in the congregation
and understood by other people.
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and when we talked with these people,
we also were frequently hearing,
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that sometimes
when people were trying to help them,
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it seemed to add to the pain
instead of actually,
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enabling them
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to feel like they could move
into relationship with other people.
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So, Wendell and I were talking
about what we could do,
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to learn
about how to not only support individuals,
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but also, was there
something that we could, learn
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that would help our congregation
do well at caring for each other?
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So at my husband's suggestion,
I applied to a local seminary.
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At that time, it was within walking
distance from our house,
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and I started a master's program
in spiritual care and psychotherapy,
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and over 5 or 6 years of part time
and eventually full time studies,
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I had that chance to, to work
at the intersection
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of studying scripture
and also studying counseling.
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and always in focus
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for me was this question of how
how can we better care
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for the more complex and mental health
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related needs in our Anabaptist churches?
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So it was the writings
and work of an early family
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therapist, Virginia Satir,
that caught my attention
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because she provided
a more communal way of
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thinking about human health
and flourishing.
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She was at the forefront
of family therapy,
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which was a systems therapy,
that was being developed in contrast
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to a lot of the older, individualistic
ways of thinking about people.
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Like all that talk about the ego
and the self.
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Satir’s work honored individual people.
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But for her,
the larger picture was that healthy
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individuals create healthy communities.
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And she would have understood
that we can't really work that backwards.
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that we need to attend to individual
needs.
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So, Virginia taught that
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as we come to peace
with our own life and experiences, we are
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then more at peace
and have more compassion to offer others.
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And that makes peace in community
possible.
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So for her, peace with self
was not the end goal.
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It was the beginning place
for healthy community.
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And as I read, though
she had a different language.
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there was a lot about what
she valued in the work that matched.
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Actually, I could see like correlations
between Anabaptist values
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and the way that she was writing
about peace within,
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between and among.
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Well thank you.
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It's good to hear the background for that.
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You mentioned within between and among.
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And I understand that that's
those are important
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prepositions in Satir’s,
the way she thinks about things.
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So can you further develop that framework?
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Sure.
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I can I actually wrote that framework down
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because in the teaching that I do,
I think it's easier to see it sometimes
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along with the words
and not just hear about it.
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So Virginia Satir.
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She was really good at what she did,
but she had trouble writing it all down.
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So therapists
since Virginia Satir have also,
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contributed to her work.
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this here diagram at the top.
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Just think about what's here at the top,
is the work of Jean McLendon,
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and she's building off of Virginia Satir's
work.
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So Virginia talked about beginning
with the individual.
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And,
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Jeanne McLendon
writes, she talks about the seven A's.
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So in any community,
we all long for peace among.
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Right.
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Like, who doesn't long for world peace?
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It's a universal longing that we would be
able to be at peace with each other.
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And she says, we don't get to peace
with a large group of people
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unless there's some self
understanding and peace individually.
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So she I, I can't there's no time to go
into all the details of this,
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but this is the development
of the framework that we move from
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an understanding of peace within towards
peaceful communities.
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We do this by, first of all, learning
to be aware of ourselves.
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I think the words of Jesus
were examine yourself,
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or at least New Testament
words, are examine yourself.
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And when Jesus gave the instructions
to take the beam
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out of your own eye
before you're looking at the other person.
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Those are some of the teachings
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that I think come into play
with this awareness piece, where we are
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not just in relationship with each other
and making judgments about other people,
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but especially when there's conflict.
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We are aware of
what is ours in that conflict.
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The way she taught the awareness
piece is a diagram
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that many people have seen
in other places, or diagrams similar
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to it, that for any of us,
we are interacting only at the like.
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We can only see each other's behaviors
and hear each other's words,
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but our behaviors and our words are coming
from much deeper places.
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So when we're doing the work of awareness,
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we're acknowledging that there's conflict.
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And then we are asking ourselves
questions like, okay,
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what kinds of feelings
am I having in this conflict?
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what do I what are my perceptions?
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Here's what I think is going on.
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Maybe there's something else too.
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we own what
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it is that we are really caring about,
and also the kinds of rules
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we have for ourselves and other people,
like, well,
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they should do this, and I should do this,
and we should do this.
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And also our beliefs as Christians,
like we are Christian people.
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So this is what I believe we should do.
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down below that,
what am I really longing for?
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Peace is always a longing.
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but then there's also things
like to be accepted.
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To be understood.
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to be able to serve a purpose,
to find meaning.
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All of those things.
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Are universal human longings?
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And as Christians,
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all of this is true.
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But we also choose to live
with the lens of and who am I in Christ?
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And who is this other person in Christ?
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So there's a whole lot to attend to
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in the awareness piece here.
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Acceptance
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is the willingness then to say, okay,
this is real about me.
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Like, I'm in this conflict
and this is all true for me.
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And so the acceptance is accepting
that this is real.
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It's not saying it's good,
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because when we do self-examination,
we find things that are not good.
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Like we find our own weakness
and our own sin.
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Christ shows that to us.
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but we acknowledge that it's real.
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And then
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authorship is is very similar to that.
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But it's going a step further and saying,
this isn't
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this is like mine to do something with.
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So I am in this conflict,
but this is what I'm doing and it's real,
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and this is mine to do something with,
no matter what the other person does.
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This is mine to work with.
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Yeah.
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So that's that's the peace within.
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When you have two people
who are in disagreement and they know how
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to do this for themselves,
then they can move into this next step,
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which is where they start
to talk to each other about those things.
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And they can they can say, this is me.
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This is what I care about.
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I realize this is what I struggle with.
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So they are articulating to someone else,
like confession, right?
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Confess
your faults to each other and be healed.
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This is a great That verse fits
really well in this space, I think.
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And the application then is where we,
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we from that understanding of our conflict
and ownership.
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We then we do start to do some of the
maybe the problem-solving around it, like,
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okay, this is you and this is me.
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And now we do the applying of what we do
next.
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Yeah.
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And articulation.
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Had you mentioned that yet
or did I miss...
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Oh yes, the articulation is where we speak
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what's true about us to another person.
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Because now we're looking at the peace
between. Yes.
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And for Virginia
the peace between is two people at a time.
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Like it's me and another individual.
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Yeah.
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And then if we are able to have those,
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those kinds of conversations, you imagine
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a community of people that could do
those kinds of conversations, right?
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That would be a healthy community.
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Right?
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So then we can, as a community,
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McLendon used the words
activism and altruism.
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I, I know those aren't like words
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00:11:29,063 --> 00:11:32,066
that we're probably going
to use much as Anabaptists.
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I think it's probably words
more like the activism is this thing
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of moving out and engaging with the world
then, like it's going to a larger circle
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and it is doing justly, loving
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mercy, walking humbly.
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and the altruism is the idea that we,
we give up ourselves
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for the sake of another person,
which is something Jesus taught, right?
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and we do that.
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It's kind of like the end of the road
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of this development of peace
within, between and among.
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So that's the
that's like a larger scale framework.
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And the iceberg is
part of the awareness piece.
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I think
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then the other piece that I teach a lot
when we're talking about peace,
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is this understanding
that when there's conflict,
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we all have pieces that we will lose
sight of pretty naturally.
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And there might be patterns
about how we do that.
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So very briefly,
I would just say that to be at peace,
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00:12:37,047 --> 00:12:40,009
we need people who are able to know
themselves.
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00:12:40,009 --> 00:12:46,265
They've done this work of peace within,
and they are able to meet the other person
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in that process, and they're able
to stay attentive to the context.
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So in a church context,
when there's a conflict,
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it takes people being able
to see themselves and see the other person
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and stay aware of the relationship
that's shared in the church context.
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But we all have our tendency to get
we have a tendency to shut down
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awareness of certain things
and fixate on other things. So
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when we shut down our
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awareness of our self,
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Virginia Satir called this placating,
and that's where we fixate
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on people pleasing, like,
whatever you want me to do, I'll do it.
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00:13:29,767 --> 00:13:34,146
Just I need I need you,
I need you to be okay with me.
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And that can be really problematic,
actually.
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It can set up power dynamics and abuse
dynamics really quickly.
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It's different than submitting
for the sake of the gospel.
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This is like where I actually stop feeling
and I, I don't
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I don't express myself and I don't
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00:13:52,998 --> 00:13:56,502
yeah, it's
basically everything about my interactions
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just becomes about appeasing,
not making peace.
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00:14:02,383 --> 00:14:03,801
It's usually placating
237
00:14:03,801 --> 00:14:06,887
is usually done in relationship
with someone else
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00:14:07,346 --> 00:14:10,432
who tends to when they're in conflict,
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00:14:10,432 --> 00:14:13,936
they tend to minimize the other person,
the other party.
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And so they're not feeling safe either.
241
00:14:17,398 --> 00:14:20,985
And because they're not feeling safe
or at peace
242
00:14:20,985 --> 00:14:24,822
within themselves,
then they're minimizing the other person.
243
00:14:25,072 --> 00:14:26,240
They're it's things like,
244
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:28,033
the other
245
00:14:28,033 --> 00:14:31,036
person's always wrong,
or the other person needs to be quiet,
246
00:14:31,287 --> 00:14:35,291
or the other person
should should actually be lower.
247
00:14:35,875 --> 00:14:38,878
So it can involve authority.
248
00:14:39,295 --> 00:14:42,840
super reasonable
is where we actually stop
249
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,343
attending to the relational part
of the gospel at all.
250
00:14:46,802 --> 00:14:50,639
Like loving each other
and showing respect towards each other.
251
00:14:51,015 --> 00:14:54,602
And we get really fixated
on a problem of some kind.
252
00:14:54,602 --> 00:14:58,230
And that's what Virginia Satir called
the context relationally,
253
00:14:58,856 --> 00:15:03,777
two people can stop caring
about their human experience
254
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and just fixate on something
that they don't agree on.
255
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And that's the super reasonable,
256
00:15:10,117 --> 00:15:14,204
and sometimes we just actually we're done
attending to any of it.
257
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And she called this irrelevant.
258
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This is when we might actually cut off
a relationship completely.
259
00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:24,506
it can also mean that we just
260
00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:26,258
we don't
261
00:15:26,258 --> 00:15:29,595
know how to even if we're present
in the same room together.
262
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We don't actually know how to communicate
with each other.
263
00:15:34,141 --> 00:15:39,021
so the goal is that if we realize
when we're in a conflict,
264
00:15:39,563 --> 00:15:43,150
what we're tending to do
in coping with the conflict,
265
00:15:43,692 --> 00:15:47,029
we work really hard and prayerfully
and with other people
266
00:15:47,988 --> 00:15:50,991
to add in
whatever we realize we're shutting out.
267
00:15:51,241 --> 00:15:55,788
So if I would see that, oh,
I'm really I'm really going to blame here.
268
00:15:55,788 --> 00:15:59,667
And I'm not letting the other person speak
and I'm not letting myself hear them.
269
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That's my work to do.
270
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I need to listen more closely.
271
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I need to allow them to speak.
272
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If I realize that I'm going silent
because I'm scared to speak,
273
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my job might actually
be to start to say something.
274
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if we're getting super reasonable
275
00:16:19,853 --> 00:16:24,650
starting in either one or the other,
but becoming more interested again
276
00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:28,028
in the relationship
itself, that needs to be added back in.
277
00:16:28,904 --> 00:16:32,032
And if we have completely cut off
relationship,
278
00:16:33,075 --> 00:16:34,785
we can start in any of the three.
279
00:16:34,785 --> 00:16:37,788
Whatever feels safest.
280
00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:39,498
That's excellent.
281
00:16:39,498 --> 00:16:40,416
I like that.
282
00:16:40,416 --> 00:16:42,876
That's a very helpful framework.
283
00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:44,670
And I'm curious.
284
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:50,050
So when we have peace within between
and among in order and
285
00:16:51,135 --> 00:16:55,305
these things are in place
both in individuals and in the community,
286
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:59,309
what does the end result look like?
287
00:16:59,852 --> 00:17:02,354
Can you paint a picture of. Yes.
288
00:17:02,354 --> 00:17:04,481
Then what happens? Yes.
289
00:17:04,481 --> 00:17:07,568
So I know that as Christians
and Anabaptists
290
00:17:07,568 --> 00:17:09,987
we know that we don't do this work
all by ourself.
291
00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:11,989
This is not just self-improvement work.
292
00:17:11,989 --> 00:17:16,410
It's right in the work of repentance
and prayer and all of that,
293
00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:17,703
speaking with other people.
294
00:17:18,537 --> 00:17:20,205
I think the end result is
295
00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:24,126
that we actually start experiencing
the love of Jesus.
296
00:17:24,376 --> 00:17:26,378
We start experiencing it.
297
00:17:26,378 --> 00:17:31,842
And the way that it plays out is that not
only are we talking about Jesus
298
00:17:31,842 --> 00:17:36,889
shedding his love abroad in our hearts,
we actually are starting to engage in it.
299
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:39,933
It's like opening the door
so it can happen.
300
00:17:39,975 --> 00:17:44,188
So Jesus loved us first
and he's inviting us to know his love
301
00:17:44,188 --> 00:17:47,858
for us and to share it all around us
with everyone we meet.
302
00:17:48,609 --> 00:17:53,781
And we can learn about the context
and the ideas of his love in Scripture.
303
00:17:53,781 --> 00:17:54,531
We can.
304
00:17:54,531 --> 00:17:57,493
We see it in words, and it's a longing
we all have.
305
00:17:59,411 --> 00:18:03,540
but so much of the love is experienced
by putting.
306
00:18:03,999 --> 00:18:07,294
I think by starting to say, okay,
but these are some little pieces
307
00:18:07,294 --> 00:18:11,298
and ways that I can understand
to engage with this kind of love.
308
00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:13,133
Jesus.
309
00:18:13,133 --> 00:18:16,220
Was it Peter that Jesus said,
do you love me?
310
00:18:17,096 --> 00:18:18,764
And Peter's like, yes, I love you.
311
00:18:18,764 --> 00:18:21,767
And then Jesus says, well,
then feed my lambs.
312
00:18:22,101 --> 00:18:25,395
So and also the love your neighbor
as you love yourself.
313
00:18:25,979 --> 00:18:31,068
there's a strong correlation between
the ways we are able to love people
314
00:18:31,568 --> 00:18:35,364
and the love that we are actually knowing
and understanding about, about God.
315
00:18:36,281 --> 00:18:38,450
So God is the source.
316
00:18:38,450 --> 00:18:41,662
It's so connected and reflected in
what we're doing with each other.
317
00:18:42,579 --> 00:18:46,542
So what does this framework mean
for the way that an individual
318
00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:49,670
relates to his or her community?
319
00:18:49,795 --> 00:18:53,674
It means that we keep coming back
to Christ as the one who makes peace
320
00:18:53,924 --> 00:18:58,554
inside, inside us, individually first,
and then inside of our communities.
321
00:18:59,012 --> 00:19:03,934
We ask Jesus to show us our places
of weakness and blindness and bitterness
322
00:19:03,934 --> 00:19:07,813
that are inside of us,
not just outside of us, with others,
323
00:19:08,397 --> 00:19:11,275
because we know he told us to remove the
the beam
324
00:19:11,275 --> 00:19:14,611
in our own eye before
pointing out the splinter in others.
325
00:19:15,028 --> 00:19:18,407
And he also told us to leave
our other offerings at the altar.
326
00:19:18,407 --> 00:19:20,367
If we have anything against someone else.
327
00:19:22,077 --> 00:19:25,080
It means that we can see things
differently from each other
328
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:25,998
in our communities.
329
00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:30,127
We actually can disagree sometimes,
and we don't always need to fight it out.
330
00:19:30,919 --> 00:19:33,547
We know how to forbear, to, right?
331
00:19:33,547 --> 00:19:36,300
Sometimes we have to work it out,
and sometimes we just.
332
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,303
We bear with each other and we forbear.
333
00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:42,890
it means that we wait to speak truth
334
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:45,893
until we can do it with love.
335
00:19:45,976 --> 00:19:48,979
Because without love, it profits nothing.
336
00:19:49,021 --> 00:19:51,023
It means that we listen below
337
00:19:51,023 --> 00:19:54,318
each other's words
for the longings that we are sharing.
338
00:19:54,318 --> 00:19:58,488
And we always remember the person
of Jesus inside each other.
339
00:19:59,615 --> 00:20:02,868
And it means that when we are speaking
our thoughts to another person,
340
00:20:02,868 --> 00:20:06,830
we are also committed to hearing
and valuing theirs.
341
00:20:07,998 --> 00:20:11,418
As we're having this conversation, I'm
trying to anticipate
342
00:20:11,418 --> 00:20:14,463
some of the objections
that somebody might have.
343
00:20:15,088 --> 00:20:18,759
And I'm thinking particularly of,
you know, in the framework
344
00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:24,806
that you gave peace
with one's self or peace
345
00:20:25,849 --> 00:20:27,559
is the preposition within
346
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:30,562
is first and,
347
00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:33,106
you know, in the New Testament,
348
00:20:33,106 --> 00:20:37,069
it seems that believers are called
to put the good of others
349
00:20:37,361 --> 00:20:41,615
above their own good, or
to be thinking of others before oneself.
350
00:20:42,699 --> 00:20:46,328
So can you address the concern
351
00:20:46,328 --> 00:20:50,499
of maybe something being out of place
or in the wrong order,
352
00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:53,961
if we're putting peace with ourself or own
353
00:20:56,713 --> 00:20:59,132
well-being first?
354
00:20:59,132 --> 00:21:00,801
I can understand why
355
00:21:00,801 --> 00:21:04,680
we're nervous about the language
I really do.
356
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,892
And I've often wished that there was like
other words to be used there.
357
00:21:08,892 --> 00:21:10,936
And maybe there are other words.
358
00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:16,358
it's usually it's easy to hear
the language and the history of, of self
359
00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:21,863
that has pervaded psychology and view it
as working against healthy community.
360
00:21:22,572 --> 00:21:26,076
and also as separate
from like Christ at work in our hearts
361
00:21:26,368 --> 00:21:29,371
and where like,
I think in the secular world,
362
00:21:29,371 --> 00:21:33,208
wherever self-development is
viewed as the, like the end goal
363
00:21:33,208 --> 00:21:36,753
or in a vacuum, like it just happens
all within one individual.
364
00:21:37,379 --> 00:21:42,175
it really does work against Christ's
model of servant living and community.
365
00:21:43,051 --> 00:21:46,263
I see it
somewhat as a question of where we
366
00:21:47,597 --> 00:21:48,598
again, what we're going to
367
00:21:48,598 --> 00:21:51,601
emphasize over
in our reading of scriptures.
368
00:21:51,935 --> 00:21:55,105
because some of the New Testament letters
do highlight
369
00:21:55,105 --> 00:21:59,234
the need for stability and like that, it's
the it's a very communal language
370
00:21:59,234 --> 00:22:01,903
in the New Testament. Right.
371
00:22:01,903 --> 00:22:03,655
there's this there's this understanding
372
00:22:03,655 --> 00:22:06,658
that believers are committed to Christ
and to each other.
373
00:22:06,992 --> 00:22:09,786
But then I look in the Gospels
at Jesus ministry,
374
00:22:09,786 --> 00:22:13,832
and I also see him calling out the stories
of individual people.
375
00:22:14,249 --> 00:22:17,377
And there are times
when he's honoring individuals
376
00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:21,340
in ways
that are against the communal rules.
377
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:21,715
Right.
378
00:22:21,715 --> 00:22:25,010
There are times when he is interacting
with people very differently
379
00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:28,013
than what
the community expectations would ask for.
380
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,142
So he spoke to crowds,
but he listened to and touched
381
00:22:32,142 --> 00:22:35,187
and felt things
in relationship with individuals.
382
00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:38,190
Jesus saw himself
383
00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:42,402
and others and community all through
the lens of the will of his father.
384
00:22:44,071 --> 00:22:47,449
So when the community thought
that he was wrong for touching someone
385
00:22:47,449 --> 00:22:50,619
unclean or healing and gleaning
wheat on the Sabbath,
386
00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:54,539
he was always orienting himself
to the love of the father.
387
00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:57,959
He knew who he was,
and he knew what he was there to do.
388
00:22:57,959 --> 00:23:00,962
And he was very oriented
to the will of God.
389
00:23:00,962 --> 00:23:02,339
So that's like the self.
390
00:23:02,339 --> 00:23:03,507
He didn't lose him.
391
00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:07,677
His understanding of himself
and what was going on while he served
392
00:23:07,677 --> 00:23:10,013
other people.
393
00:23:10,013 --> 00:23:11,431
When asked about the greatest
394
00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:14,601
of all the commandments,
he didn't just distill it to one.
395
00:23:14,935 --> 00:23:18,563
He said, two are so close together
they can't be separated.
396
00:23:19,272 --> 00:23:21,650
Love the Lord your God
with all your heart, soul and mind,
397
00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:24,528
and love your neighbor
in the same way you love yourself.
398
00:23:25,487 --> 00:23:26,321
And honestly,
399
00:23:26,321 --> 00:23:30,158
lately, as I as I keep living,
I wonder sometimes.
400
00:23:30,492 --> 00:23:32,911
Yes, he gave it as an instruction,
401
00:23:32,911 --> 00:23:36,248
but I also wonder sometimes
if it's almost like a law of gravity,
402
00:23:36,665 --> 00:23:39,793
that this is just the way
it is, that to know
403
00:23:39,793 --> 00:23:45,048
the love of God shed abroad in our hearts,
we have to open up ourselves
404
00:23:45,048 --> 00:23:48,385
individually, like we have to know
what it's like to be loved.
405
00:23:49,511 --> 00:23:50,053
And I think
406
00:23:50,053 --> 00:23:53,932
sometimes we're working so hard
at getting our loving other people right.
407
00:23:53,932 --> 00:23:55,809
But we're still not.
408
00:23:55,809 --> 00:23:58,895
We're still not completely opened up
to being loved ourselves
409
00:23:59,271 --> 00:24:03,984
by letting God's love for us
change us as an initial place.
410
00:24:04,401 --> 00:24:08,447
So we need to open up ourselves
to taking in love all the way,
411
00:24:09,614 --> 00:24:12,951
and then we're freed up to love others
out of that love.
412
00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:17,747
So this question
about the worry about somehow,
413
00:24:19,499 --> 00:24:20,292
like if if
414
00:24:20,292 --> 00:24:24,296
we don't value ourselves,
what kind of loving
415
00:24:24,296 --> 00:24:26,965
are we going to be doing?
416
00:24:26,965 --> 00:24:28,800
I think that's my question.
417
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,429
If if my service of others is done
from a place of shame
418
00:24:32,429 --> 00:24:35,432
and not understanding my value,
419
00:24:36,308 --> 00:24:39,144
I'm not sure what kind of loving I'm doing
420
00:24:39,144 --> 00:24:42,147
and what the other person
experiences from that.
421
00:24:42,814 --> 00:24:45,817
So I see the phrase of being at peace
with oneself
422
00:24:45,901 --> 00:24:49,237
as very different
from just selfishly taking care of myself.
423
00:24:49,237 --> 00:24:50,947
It's not a protective care.
424
00:24:50,947 --> 00:24:53,950
It's not a protective kind of loving.
425
00:24:54,409 --> 00:24:58,205
it's much more similar
to having integrity
426
00:24:58,747 --> 00:25:01,291
and having awareness of Jesus love
427
00:25:01,291 --> 00:25:04,294
and then being able to take responsibility
428
00:25:04,503 --> 00:25:07,506
for others, like for myself, with others.
429
00:25:08,131 --> 00:25:10,091
When Jesus washed his disciples feet
430
00:25:10,091 --> 00:25:13,094
and he emptied himself on the cross,
431
00:25:13,136 --> 00:25:17,390
he still knew who he was and he still knew
the father's love for him.
432
00:25:18,016 --> 00:25:21,019
So this losing of ourselves.
433
00:25:21,061 --> 00:25:23,688
Is not a loss of our identity.
434
00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:25,315
It's not a loss of our value
435
00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:26,900
that stays
436
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:29,903
intact,
even while we're serving each other.
437
00:25:30,237 --> 00:25:32,364
It's a very good response.
438
00:25:32,364 --> 00:25:35,951
A bit earlier in this conversation
you mentioned that you work as a coach.
439
00:25:36,493 --> 00:25:40,080
can you tell us about that,
how you got into it
440
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,707
and what this work involves.
441
00:25:42,707 --> 00:25:44,501
Sure. A little bit about that.
442
00:25:44,501 --> 00:25:48,380
when I finished up
my university coursework,
443
00:25:48,380 --> 00:25:50,799
I wasn't certain how I was going
to use my learnings.
444
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:53,718
At that point we were still,
I was certainly using them
445
00:25:53,718 --> 00:25:54,761
congregationally.
446
00:25:54,761 --> 00:25:57,764
So many people in our congregation
at that time
447
00:25:57,764 --> 00:26:01,393
were conversation partners for me
while I was in that learning process.
448
00:26:01,768 --> 00:26:03,728
But we were also moving away.
449
00:26:03,728 --> 00:26:07,941
We were moving from Canada to the US
at that time, and so I decided to wait
450
00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:12,112
until we had successfully moved,
and I had received a green card
451
00:26:12,112 --> 00:26:15,657
to start
figuring out what to do from there.
452
00:26:16,032 --> 00:26:18,952
But then the pandemic entered the picture,
453
00:26:18,952 --> 00:26:23,039
and, my husband's sources of income,
were drying up.
454
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:27,294
And, he's a composer, so, like,
choirs weren't meeting and they weren't
455
00:26:27,294 --> 00:26:31,840
buying his music to sing, and everyone
was being locked down in our own homes.
456
00:26:31,881 --> 00:26:36,720
And so once again, Wendell asked me
if I would consider
457
00:26:37,178 --> 00:26:41,308
just seeing if people
if there was a need for online coaching.
458
00:26:41,725 --> 00:26:43,184
So I didn't have my license yet.
459
00:26:43,184 --> 00:26:46,187
I'm not a licensed counselor,
so hence the coaching.
460
00:26:46,646 --> 00:26:50,442
and he just wanted me to
see if there was a need or a wish for it.
461
00:26:50,984 --> 00:26:53,528
And I was tentative about that.
462
00:26:53,528 --> 00:26:56,406
I wondered how it would even work
to talk to people on a screen
463
00:26:56,406 --> 00:26:57,365
instead of in person.
464
00:26:57,365 --> 00:27:00,535
And how would
how would that be helpful to them?
465
00:27:00,910 --> 00:27:05,832
And I worried that it would be stilted
and difficult to care for people that way.
466
00:27:06,583 --> 00:27:10,378
but as happens
so often, limitations can give birth
467
00:27:10,378 --> 00:27:13,882
to new the new, opportunities.
468
00:27:14,507 --> 00:27:19,763
So I posted once on Facebook
with a link to a simple web page and
469
00:27:20,722 --> 00:27:21,181
found out
470
00:27:21,181 --> 00:27:24,184
that there is a need
and there is a desire,
471
00:27:24,517 --> 00:27:28,104
and that there are many Anabaptist women
who are saying to me,
472
00:27:28,438 --> 00:27:29,939
you know, I've wanted
473
00:27:29,939 --> 00:27:33,568
I've wanted to receive care and help
for a long time, but I didn't know.
474
00:27:34,110 --> 00:27:36,446
I didn't know where to go.
475
00:27:36,446 --> 00:27:38,907
and so this is accessible for them.
476
00:27:38,907 --> 00:27:42,661
So in online coaching,
maybe I function with coaching.
477
00:27:42,661 --> 00:27:45,997
I function a little more like the family
doctor does in the medical world,
478
00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:51,086
because I'm not the therapist for a lot of
the traumatic needs that people have.
479
00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:56,591
But, clients will inquire
with many different questions and needs.
480
00:27:56,591 --> 00:28:01,137
And sometimes I have the skills to guide
and support them toward their goals.
481
00:28:01,137 --> 00:28:04,432
But it's really important that I know
when I don't have the skills.
482
00:28:05,308 --> 00:28:09,437
And so during those times,
I'm also looking to help guide them
483
00:28:09,437 --> 00:28:13,525
and maybe suggest other supports for them
with what they're experiencing.
484
00:28:13,858 --> 00:28:16,528
That is commonly that commonly happens
485
00:28:16,528 --> 00:28:21,241
depending on the mental health needs
and just what's all happening for them.
486
00:28:22,409 --> 00:28:25,745
Other times we talk together about,
487
00:28:27,497 --> 00:28:30,875
about some of the things that can support
and that is often,
488
00:28:31,084 --> 00:28:34,045
like mood disorders,
489
00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:37,048
things like depression, anxiety.
490
00:28:37,132 --> 00:28:40,135
sometimes OCD, so obsessive thinking.
491
00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:44,055
I also support
women who are in difficult marriages,
492
00:28:44,055 --> 00:28:47,183
or they're pursuing freedom
from their own addictions.
493
00:28:48,268 --> 00:28:52,105
Some clients want a supportive place
to look back at a certain
494
00:28:52,105 --> 00:28:56,025
grief or trauma and gain
understanding and healing.
495
00:28:56,693 --> 00:28:59,821
and sometimes they're
they're looking for places
496
00:28:59,821 --> 00:29:03,158
to talk about their questions,
about their faith and what they're
497
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:06,161
wondering about
in their relationship with the Lord.
498
00:29:06,494 --> 00:29:10,999
I also have offered training to other
Mennonite women who are interested in,
499
00:29:11,708 --> 00:29:14,461
growing in their listening skills
500
00:29:14,461 --> 00:29:17,672
or their abilities
to care for people in their congregations.
501
00:29:17,672 --> 00:29:20,341
And that is particularly close
to my heart.
502
00:29:20,341 --> 00:29:23,636
It's been such an honor
to prepare other women
503
00:29:23,636 --> 00:29:26,723
who want to give good care
in their congregations.
504
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:31,770
I receive way more inquiries for care
than what I can get to on my own,
505
00:29:31,770 --> 00:29:34,773
and it's been a delight
to match the needs of clients
506
00:29:35,064 --> 00:29:38,067
with the strengths
of other mentors who are available.
507
00:29:39,444 --> 00:29:42,447
So that's some of the stuff that happens.
508
00:29:42,781 --> 00:29:43,573
Yeah.
509
00:29:43,573 --> 00:29:49,120
Well that's good
as you have worked as a coach.
510
00:29:49,579 --> 00:29:52,749
what's the biggest thing
that you have learned
511
00:29:53,416 --> 00:29:58,463
and the greatest need that you have become
most passionate about?
512
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:59,506
Right.
513
00:29:59,506 --> 00:30:03,927
It's really hard to distill right to
the most passionate and the greatest need.
514
00:30:03,927 --> 00:30:06,471
But I did think of a few things here.
515
00:30:06,471 --> 00:30:10,141
I've learned that
there are endless ways to suffer.
516
00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:12,352
We don't all suffer the same way.
517
00:30:12,352 --> 00:30:14,938
There's so many ways to suffer.
518
00:30:14,938 --> 00:30:17,315
And alongside that, I've learned
519
00:30:17,315 --> 00:30:20,860
and seen how God gives us a large capacity
520
00:30:21,319 --> 00:30:24,823
to live and love
and follow him while we're suffering,
521
00:30:26,491 --> 00:30:29,911
and that having compassionate
witnesses in our suffering
522
00:30:30,203 --> 00:30:33,331
is something that God is asking us
to provide for each other.
523
00:30:33,873 --> 00:30:38,127
Even if we can't fix the suffering
or always take it away or make it stop.
524
00:30:38,962 --> 00:30:41,256
There is a there's a strength
525
00:30:41,256 --> 00:30:44,634
that comes by witnessing
and bearing each other's burdens.
526
00:30:45,593 --> 00:30:46,010
So we
527
00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:49,347
lean on Christ together and we trust him
together,
528
00:30:50,014 --> 00:30:55,019
even while we are suffering
and that is so different from everybody
529
00:30:55,019 --> 00:30:58,898
being frantic about fixing it
or making everything go away.
530
00:30:59,732 --> 00:31:02,735
because suffering is a part of living,
531
00:31:03,194 --> 00:31:05,530
and I am passionate about Christian women
532
00:31:05,530 --> 00:31:08,533
bringing their health to their churches
and their communities.
533
00:31:08,992 --> 00:31:11,035
I've come to care a great deal
534
00:31:11,035 --> 00:31:14,831
about the strengths in the Anabaptist
women that I'm meeting with.
535
00:31:14,873 --> 00:31:18,001
They have learned
so much in their lifetimes,
536
00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:21,004
but they are not just learning
for their own sake.
537
00:31:21,170 --> 00:31:23,965
They're eager to grow
so that they can be healthier
538
00:31:23,965 --> 00:31:28,219
for their husbands and their families
and their friends and their churches.
539
00:31:29,012 --> 00:31:31,222
And though
there's often a need to understand
540
00:31:31,222 --> 00:31:34,267
the past,
there's always deep desire toward God
541
00:31:34,684 --> 00:31:38,104
and a desire to share what
they're learning out with other people.
542
00:31:38,771 --> 00:31:42,442
And I have a hope that Anabaptist churches
will open up
543
00:31:42,609 --> 00:31:45,445
new ways to receive women.
544
00:31:45,445 --> 00:31:48,531
to be involved in caring ministries
in their congregations.
545
00:31:48,948 --> 00:31:54,871
Following after examples of Phoebe and Priscilla and Lydia and others in Scripture.
546
00:31:56,581 --> 00:31:58,291
That is an excellent vision.
547
00:31:58,291 --> 00:32:01,294
Thank you.
548
00:32:01,711 --> 00:32:04,923
I think in a previous conversation
or perhaps an email,
549
00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:09,302
you said that there is a pervasive sense
550
00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:12,472
within women that their thoughts and ideas
551
00:32:12,472 --> 00:32:15,475
are more likely dangerous than helpful.
552
00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:18,895
This makes me sad.
553
00:32:18,895 --> 00:32:22,315
And I understand
that is something that you also are
554
00:32:22,315 --> 00:32:25,318
interested in combating.
555
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:27,946
So I'm curious how you encourage women
556
00:32:27,946 --> 00:32:32,200
to find a better regard
for their own contributions.
557
00:32:33,242 --> 00:32:37,163
And I'm open to any kind of answer
that you have for this.
558
00:32:38,247 --> 00:32:41,209
but I would be particularly interested
in hearing
559
00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:44,045
how the Bible can address this fear.
560
00:32:44,045 --> 00:32:46,130
Yes. well,
561
00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:50,385
I hope to see men and women sharing
their conversations of reflection on
562
00:32:50,385 --> 00:32:54,681
God's work in their lives and what they're
learning in their reading of Scripture.
563
00:32:54,681 --> 00:32:59,769
So I, I envision a way that we would be
comfortable, men and women.
564
00:32:59,769 --> 00:33:03,106
But I realize that in our,
Anabaptist context,
565
00:33:03,106 --> 00:33:08,236
we are, we're very attentive to teachings
about who women maybe can or cannot,
566
00:33:09,028 --> 00:33:13,324
maybe what our spheres for speaking
that out are right in a church context.
567
00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:18,287
so even
this conversation is so valuable to me.
568
00:33:18,329 --> 00:33:19,789
It was an honor to sit.
569
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:23,334
It's just an honor
to sit with you and be trusted.
570
00:33:24,419 --> 00:33:27,755
I think that a lot of women
in our Mennonite churches are,
571
00:33:28,131 --> 00:33:31,592
whether they've been taught it
or whether it's just sort of
572
00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:34,804
in the air in other ways.
573
00:33:34,804 --> 00:33:39,350
We're very aware of verses in the Bible,
like about Eve being deceived first.
574
00:33:39,350 --> 00:33:40,143
Right.
575
00:33:40,143 --> 00:33:44,939
And, that we're to be silent in church
and that we're supposed to be submissive.
576
00:33:45,356 --> 00:33:50,278
And so we hear those things, and I'm not
trying to do away with those instructions,
577
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:56,409
but when I look at Scripture as a whole
and I look at women in those scriptures,
578
00:33:57,243 --> 00:34:01,039
there's this emphasis on women being,
silent in church,
579
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,457
submissive to own husbands.
580
00:34:02,457 --> 00:34:05,168
And Eve was deceived, not Adam.
581
00:34:05,168 --> 00:34:08,588
And then we're not sure
if the accounts of, like, Esther
582
00:34:08,963 --> 00:34:12,091
and Deborah and Hannah and Elizabeth
583
00:34:12,258 --> 00:34:17,930
and Mary and Lydia and Priscilla,
or the women who followed Jesus during
584
00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:21,601
his ministry, can actually like,
do they balance out
585
00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:25,104
those other warnings about who we are
or how do we hold them both?
586
00:34:25,146 --> 00:34:30,568
I think so often when I'm looking at
when I'm teaching women, about
587
00:34:31,569 --> 00:34:32,445
the value that
588
00:34:32,445 --> 00:34:35,448
Christ
places on them as well in the church,
589
00:34:35,698 --> 00:34:38,701
those are the stories
that we're starting to talk about more.
590
00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,413
another one that I,
another text that I look
591
00:34:42,413 --> 00:34:45,416
at is, Genesis one and two.
592
00:34:46,334 --> 00:34:51,297
So if the church, if we're all we want to,
if we want to reflect as much of God's
593
00:34:51,297 --> 00:34:56,260
original design in this life as possible,
I think that's true.
594
00:34:56,260 --> 00:34:59,263
Like,
what did God design us to do and to be?
595
00:35:00,932 --> 00:35:03,101
and when we look at his intent
596
00:35:03,101 --> 00:35:07,480
for male and female in Genesis
one and two, it's just
597
00:35:08,022 --> 00:35:11,818
I think I'm just pointing this out here
that the chapter one account
598
00:35:11,859 --> 00:35:14,821
talks about God creating male and female
599
00:35:15,321 --> 00:35:18,157
with the intent
that they would have dominion together.
600
00:35:18,157 --> 00:35:19,158
Like, there's a
601
00:35:19,158 --> 00:35:23,079
there's a very mutual language
in chapter one about how he creates
602
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:26,415
male and female, and he gives them
the earth to take care of together.
603
00:35:27,458 --> 00:35:27,875
And then in
604
00:35:27,875 --> 00:35:31,003
chapter
two, the narrative is a little different
605
00:35:31,003 --> 00:35:34,590
because God creates Adam
first in that account,
606
00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:38,344
and then he says, it's
not good for man to do this alone.
607
00:35:38,594 --> 00:35:42,682
And so he creates a helper,
and his helper is a woman.
608
00:35:43,474 --> 00:35:46,602
And, I still remember hearing a Jewish,
609
00:35:46,811 --> 00:35:50,439
professor talk about that word helpmeet.
610
00:35:51,274 --> 00:35:54,193
And I know what's in our background
for helpmeet.
611
00:35:54,193 --> 00:35:57,697
but the Jewish professor was talking
612
00:35:57,697 --> 00:36:00,700
about how the meaning of this word,
613
00:36:01,325 --> 00:36:05,621
part of it is this idea
of being in contrast to and being against,
614
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,209
not against in a, in a way of conflict,
although there's plenty of it,
615
00:36:10,251 --> 00:36:15,548
sometimes between male and female,
but more it's like like the,
616
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,135
like the supportive role,
like the tent or the tripod
617
00:36:19,552 --> 00:36:24,640
that that God didn't intend for men
to stand by themselves.
618
00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:28,644
There's this understanding that male
and female were created to stand together
619
00:36:29,228 --> 00:36:32,648
and be very supportive
alongside of each other,
620
00:36:32,648 --> 00:36:35,651
and that's the help, the help-meet.
621
00:36:36,277 --> 00:36:37,195
What kind of help?
622
00:36:37,195 --> 00:36:40,072
Well, a very different kind of help,
probably
623
00:36:40,072 --> 00:36:41,616
with a very different perspective.
624
00:36:41,616 --> 00:36:44,744
Sometimes, but meant to keep things
625
00:36:44,744 --> 00:36:48,247
in a sense of
peace or shalom or stability.
626
00:36:49,832 --> 00:36:50,833
So I wonder about
627
00:36:50,833 --> 00:36:53,836
that in Genesis one and two.
628
00:36:53,961 --> 00:36:58,591
Perhaps from the very beginning,
God understood that two parts are always
629
00:36:58,591 --> 00:37:03,429
needed for balance, and that one part
will never remain in balance alone.
630
00:37:04,722 --> 00:37:08,184
Then when we read through
the New Testament and we watch closely
631
00:37:08,184 --> 00:37:12,104
for the presence of women,
there are a lot of there are a lot of,
632
00:37:13,064 --> 00:37:16,067
messages of hope,
I think, for Christian women.
633
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,613
I still remember the first time
I noticed the short phrases in the Gospels
634
00:37:20,613 --> 00:37:24,492
about the women who followed
Jesus from Galilee and realized
635
00:37:24,492 --> 00:37:28,287
that all my life I just pictured it
like Jesus and a group of men.
636
00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:31,832
It was just Jesus and his 12 disciples
doing all this amazing stuff.
637
00:37:32,416 --> 00:37:35,753
But when I realized that there were women
that were traveling with them
638
00:37:36,087 --> 00:37:39,757
and were attending to their needs
and were part of this ministry as well,
639
00:37:39,757 --> 00:37:43,552
I think the phrase is that they ministered
to him from their substance.
640
00:37:45,137 --> 00:37:48,057
That was a, that was like a fireworks
for me, right?
641
00:37:48,057 --> 00:37:50,977
Because, oh, they were there too.
642
00:37:50,977 --> 00:37:53,312
They were very much a part of this.
643
00:37:53,312 --> 00:37:55,815
then I think about Romans
644
00:37:55,815 --> 00:37:59,944
16, where Paul is sending greetings
to multiple women
645
00:37:59,944 --> 00:38:02,989
like he's saying,
greet this woman because she labored long
646
00:38:02,989 --> 00:38:06,701
in the Lord and greet
this woman who was in the Lord before me.
647
00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:11,163
And, he's sending these greetings
to women in the community
648
00:38:12,123 --> 00:38:14,542
and realizing that whatever Paul meant
649
00:38:14,542 --> 00:38:18,546
by women
being submissive or silent in church
650
00:38:18,546 --> 00:38:22,258
services, he did not see them
as uninvolved in the church.
651
00:38:22,258 --> 00:38:25,261
He saw them as very involved
and very important
652
00:38:25,761 --> 00:38:28,764
presence in the Christian community.
653
00:38:30,099 --> 00:38:32,351
So I consider these things
654
00:38:32,351 --> 00:38:35,354
when I'm encouraging women
to bring their thoughts
655
00:38:35,438 --> 00:38:38,357
and to bring their concerns
and their ideas
656
00:38:38,357 --> 00:38:42,236
to conversation with men in their homes
and in their churches.
657
00:38:42,236 --> 00:38:45,865
So, of course, first to their husbands,
but then as they're invited
658
00:38:46,490 --> 00:38:50,745
to be willing to share their thoughts,
with men in their communities,
659
00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:52,705
we talk about
660
00:38:52,705 --> 00:38:55,916
how we're not this isn't
about taking anything away from men.
661
00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:59,170
It's never about trying to take something
away.
662
00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:03,507
It's it's the desire
to be part of something together.
663
00:39:04,675 --> 00:39:09,221
And I encourage women to join
conversations and help men in their lives.
664
00:39:09,221 --> 00:39:12,266
And always doing this
also from a posture of love.
665
00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:17,438
Because if we fight to have a voice,
it's still profits nothing, right?
666
00:39:17,938 --> 00:39:22,193
So we come with a desire to be with
667
00:39:22,985 --> 00:39:25,988
in our communities,
but always from a posture of love.
668
00:39:27,114 --> 00:39:29,492
As male and female, we're called by Jesus
669
00:39:29,492 --> 00:39:33,037
to serve together,
and this involves hearing from each other
670
00:39:33,371 --> 00:39:37,083
and having challenging
but peaceful conversations together.
671
00:39:38,209 --> 00:39:41,212
and I'm really grateful for this one.
672
00:39:41,504 --> 00:39:43,756
Yeah.
673
00:39:43,756 --> 00:39:47,551
And it's a genuine honor
to have you join us for this conversation.
674
00:39:47,802 --> 00:39:50,513
We're delighted that you're able
to be here for this conversation, and
675
00:39:51,555 --> 00:39:53,432
we're going to record another one
after this.
676
00:39:53,432 --> 00:39:55,184
So we're glad
that you're on that one, too.
677
00:39:55,184 --> 00:39:56,644
Thank you.
678
00:39:56,644 --> 00:39:59,814
Before we end this conversation,
is there anything else that you would like
679
00:39:59,814 --> 00:40:02,817
to add or resources
that you could recommend to our audience?
680
00:40:03,901 --> 00:40:08,447
Well, for anybody who's interested
in looking more at what I had on the
681
00:40:08,447 --> 00:40:12,284
small whiteboard, if you want to read more
about that from a Christian perspective.
682
00:40:12,618 --> 00:40:18,165
Mark and Debbie Laaser wrote a book
called “Seven Desires”, and the subtitle
683
00:40:18,165 --> 00:40:21,836
is “Looking Past what separates us
to learn what Connects us”.
684
00:40:22,211 --> 00:40:23,295
And it's done from a Christian.
685
00:40:23,295 --> 00:40:25,005
It's written from a Christian perspective,
686
00:40:25,005 --> 00:40:28,884
but they also talk about the teachings
of Virginia Satir.
687
00:40:29,301 --> 00:40:33,597
So for people who are interested in
reading more, they could read this book.
688
00:40:34,306 --> 00:40:34,932
Well, excellent.
689
00:40:34,932 --> 00:40:36,392
Thank you for the recommendation.
690
00:40:36,392 --> 00:40:39,228
And again, thank you for joining us
for this conversation.
691
00:40:39,228 --> 00:40:40,354
You’re welcome.
692
00:40:41,105 --> 00:40:44,275
Thank you for watching this episode
of Anabaptist Perspectives.
693
00:40:44,275 --> 00:40:47,736
For the complete library of the blog posts
and episodes that we have published,
694
00:40:48,070 --> 00:40:51,157
visit anabaptistperspectives.org
695
00:45:30,644 --> 00:45:33,063
Are you feeling inspired?
696
00:45:33,063 --> 00:45:36,066
And where do you today?
697
00:45:36,942 --> 00:45:39,111
What is peace within oneself
and with others?
698
00:45:39,111 --> 00:45:42,531
Have to do with the peace
and well-being of the community?
699
00:45:46,493 --> 00:45:47,911
So, I don't know, for a hook.
700
00:45:47,911 --> 00:45:49,997
Does that
701
00:45:49,997 --> 00:45:53,000
raise a question and capture attention?
702
00:45:56,754 --> 00:45:58,046
Okay, we'll go with that.
703
00:45:58,046 --> 00:46:00,299
If it doesn't work, maybe Carl can find
704
00:46:00,299 --> 00:46:03,302
something from later on in the episode
I was first.
705
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:04,052
Yeah.
706
00:46:04,052 --> 00:46:07,055
for the second one,
many people have experienced trauma.
707
00:46:08,557 --> 00:46:10,851
Many people have experienced trauma.
708
00:46:10,851 --> 00:46:13,854
How can Christians support
those who have been traumatized?
709
00:46:14,062 --> 00:46:17,065
How can churches offer a loving care?
710
00:46:21,403 --> 00:46:23,864
You have thoughts on
711
00:46:23,864 --> 00:46:24,323
on that?
712
00:46:29,995 --> 00:46:32,998
Yeah.
713
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,086
Maybe
714
00:46:38,086 --> 00:46:41,465
my only my suggestion maybe to frame that
715
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,053
to those looking on the person
who is experiencing trauma may seem odd
716
00:46:46,804 --> 00:46:50,307
or struggling and necessarily,
717
00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:54,353
how do we relate to people's home
718
00:46:54,353 --> 00:46:57,356
coma and help them,
719
00:46:57,898 --> 00:47:00,859
forward rather than pushing them further
720
00:47:01,985 --> 00:47:04,988
in something like that would help
721
00:47:04,988 --> 00:47:07,991
frame the tension.
722
00:47:08,742 --> 00:47:10,536
Yeah, yeah.
723
00:47:10,536 --> 00:47:13,539
See if I can find some words for that.
724
00:47:34,685 --> 00:47:37,521
How's this for those looking on?
725
00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:42,442
Those who have experienced trauma
may appear to be suffering unnecessarily.
726
00:47:43,068 --> 00:47:45,988
How can Christians support
those who have been traumatized
727
00:47:45,988 --> 00:47:48,866
rather than driving their suffering
deeper?
728
00:47:48,866 --> 00:47:51,076
How can churches offer loving care?
729
00:47:51,076 --> 00:47:52,369
Okay.
730
00:47:52,369 --> 00:47:54,079
Does that capture
what you were suggesting?
731
00:47:54,079 --> 00:47:56,039
I think yes, yes. Yeah.
732
00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:57,833
Very well, I like that.
733
00:47:57,833 --> 00:47:58,250
Yeah.
734
00:47:58,250 --> 00:48:01,253
That is an improvement.
735
00:48:06,675 --> 00:48:10,012
Shall we, should we do these first
and then think about the outros?
736
00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:11,305
Sure.
737
00:48:11,305 --> 00:48:13,807
Where shall I be and where shall I look?
738
00:48:13,807 --> 00:48:15,392
Are we still recording?
739
00:48:15,392 --> 00:48:17,060
Oh, we're capturing all of this. Okay.
740
00:48:18,896 --> 00:48:21,899
Sorry, Carl.
741
00:48:22,941 --> 00:48:25,944
This.
742
00:48:26,278 --> 00:48:26,695
yeah.
743
00:48:26,695 --> 00:48:30,741
Once you get settled, I'll adjust
and I'll be at all.
744
00:48:30,741 --> 00:48:32,784
Okay, then you'll be good here.
745
00:48:32,784 --> 00:48:34,995
Okay.
746
00:48:34,995 --> 00:48:35,829
That's pretty fun.
747
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:38,248
That's pretty funny.
748
00:48:38,248 --> 00:48:39,833
Do you think the iPad is distracting
to have it
749
00:48:39,833 --> 00:48:41,126
vertically rather than laying down.
750
00:48:41,126 --> 00:48:42,085
On this camera?
751
00:48:42,085 --> 00:48:44,922
So I think, oh, okay. Good.
752
00:48:44,922 --> 00:48:48,634
So Carl,
this is the intro for the first episode,
753
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,970
which is about peaceful relationships.
754
00:48:58,226 --> 00:49:00,812
What does peace within oneself
755
00:49:00,812 --> 00:49:03,649
and with others have to do with the peace
756
00:49:03,649 --> 00:49:06,652
and well-being of the community?
757
00:49:13,408 --> 00:49:16,078
What does peace within oneself
758
00:49:16,078 --> 00:49:19,998
and with others have to do with the peace
and well-being
759
00:49:20,165 --> 00:49:23,168
of the larger community?
760
00:49:25,504 --> 00:49:25,754
Okay.
761
00:49:25,754 --> 00:49:27,714
You're good. Okay.
762
00:49:27,714 --> 00:49:32,219
And this is the intro
for the second episode with Janelle Glick.
763
00:49:32,886 --> 00:49:34,763
it's the one about
764
00:49:35,847 --> 00:49:38,809
trauma and trauma informed churches.
765
00:49:45,232 --> 00:49:47,484
For those looking on,
766
00:49:47,484 --> 00:49:51,530
those who have experienced
trauma may be suffering unnecessarily.
767
00:49:52,489 --> 00:49:55,492
How can Christians support
those who have experienced trauma
768
00:49:55,617 --> 00:49:58,578
rather
than driving their suffering deeper?
769
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,083
How can churches offer a loving care?
770
00:50:07,379 --> 00:50:10,382
How does that wording
turn on the first sentence?
771
00:50:11,550 --> 00:50:12,592
For those looking.
772
00:50:12,592 --> 00:50:13,301
For those looking
773
00:50:13,301 --> 00:50:17,764
on, those who have experienced trauma
may appear to be suffering unnecessarily.
774
00:50:17,848 --> 00:50:20,100
Yeah. Is there a way
we can frame that more clearly?
775
00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:21,476
No. That was that was good.
776
00:50:21,476 --> 00:50:24,938
I mean, I didn't hear
you say the word appear, so I was,
777
00:50:26,189 --> 00:50:29,067
was oh,
778
00:50:29,067 --> 00:50:29,526
okay.
779
00:50:29,526 --> 00:50:32,362
I mean, that would be bad news
to leave that out. Yeah.
780
00:50:32,362 --> 00:50:35,490
so, Carl, make sure that the word appears
in the first sentence,
781
00:50:35,490 --> 00:50:37,659
and I'll try again
and try to get the words right.
782
00:50:37,659 --> 00:50:42,497
And maybe start with to those looking
on, rather than for those looking,
783
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,126
okay, I think I might be
a little more clear and less.
784
00:50:46,126 --> 00:50:47,335
That's not chromatically.
785
00:50:47,335 --> 00:50:50,964
No, that's grammatically good
and I think probably clear.
786
00:50:51,506 --> 00:50:52,716
So I will try again.
787
00:50:55,761 --> 00:50:57,679
To those looking on,
788
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:01,850
those who have experienced trauma
may appear to be suffering unnecessarily.
789
00:51:02,893 --> 00:51:06,354
How can Christians support
those who have experienced trauma
790
00:51:06,605 --> 00:51:09,608
rather than driving the suffering deeper?
791
00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:12,861
How can churches respond?
792
00:51:14,196 --> 00:51:15,781
That sound good?
793
00:51:15,781 --> 00:51:17,240
Okay,
794
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,243
you go one more, run your good.
795
00:51:23,288 --> 00:51:25,165
To those looking on,
796
00:51:25,165 --> 00:51:28,168
those who have experienced
trauma may appear
797
00:51:28,293 --> 00:51:31,296
to be suffering unnecessarily.
798
00:51:31,713 --> 00:51:33,173
How can
799
00:51:33,173 --> 00:51:36,176
how can Christian support
those who have experienced trauma
800
00:51:36,968 --> 00:51:39,930
rather than driving the suffering deeper?
801
00:51:39,930 --> 00:51:42,933
How can churches respond?
802
00:51:47,145 --> 00:51:50,148
Okay, then for the outros.
803
00:51:51,650 --> 00:51:55,237
You had some words
804
00:51:56,321 --> 00:51:58,824
to thank you for watching this episode
of Anabaptist Perspectives.
805
00:51:58,824 --> 00:52:00,075
Is that the kind of thing we say?
806
00:52:00,075 --> 00:52:02,911
Greg Spiel is like,
thank you for watching this episode.
807
00:52:02,911 --> 00:52:05,872
We hope you enjoyed it.
808
00:52:05,872 --> 00:52:07,582
If you want to learn more about this,
809
00:52:07,582 --> 00:52:10,877
we have such so Such episode link below.
810
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,296
as always,
811
00:52:13,296 --> 00:52:16,299
you can see all of our content
on our website.
812
00:52:16,299 --> 00:52:20,971
Yeah, we got in about society.org. You.
813
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:24,224
I don't know if there's any more
814
00:52:24,224 --> 00:52:27,227
filler and.
815
00:52:28,103 --> 00:52:29,062
Thank you for watching
816
00:52:29,062 --> 00:52:32,065
and we will catch you in the next.
817
00:52:32,691 --> 00:52:35,694
Series.
818
00:52:42,492 --> 00:52:43,577
this is
819
00:52:43,577 --> 00:52:46,454
we've never done
episodes about the peace of relationships.
820
00:52:46,454 --> 00:52:48,290
One before that that's unique.
821
00:52:48,290 --> 00:52:51,168
So I don't think
I'll reference any others.
822
00:52:51,168 --> 00:52:54,087
What if I would say something like,
thank you for watching this episode
823
00:52:54,087 --> 00:52:57,924
of Anabaptist Perspectives,
for the complete library of the blog posts
824
00:52:57,924 --> 00:53:01,720
and episodes that we have published, visit
Anabaptist perspectives.org.
825
00:53:04,306 --> 00:53:07,058
That's that's brief.
826
00:53:07,058 --> 00:53:09,728
Does it sound unnaturally brief?
827
00:53:09,728 --> 00:53:12,606
So okay,
828
00:53:12,606 --> 00:53:15,609
so to.
829
00:54:10,121 --> 00:54:10,664
Okay.
830
00:54:10,664 --> 00:54:12,749
I think you've got something
ready for both.
831
00:54:12,749 --> 00:54:15,001
And we're still recording.
832
00:54:15,001 --> 00:54:18,338
Okay, so, Carl, this is the outro for our
833
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:22,550
episode one about peace and relationships.
834
00:54:28,556 --> 00:54:31,559
Thank you for watching this episode
of Anabaptist Perspectives.
835
00:54:31,810 --> 00:54:35,272
For the complete library of the blog posts
and episodes that we have published,
836
00:54:35,605 --> 00:54:38,692
visit anabaptistperspectives.org
837
00:54:44,739 --> 00:54:47,117
Thank you for watching this episode
with Janelle.
838
00:54:47,117 --> 00:54:51,413
Click for the complete collection
of episodes and blog posts
839
00:54:51,413 --> 00:54:52,580
that we have published.
840
00:54:52,580 --> 00:54:55,583
Visit and a Baptist perspectives.org.
841
00:54:57,460 --> 00:54:59,838
So that sound
842
00:54:59,838 --> 00:55:01,047
semi-natural.
843
00:55:01,047 --> 00:55:03,216
Okay, we'll stop there.
844
00:55:03,216 --> 00:55:06,761
And Carl, this is the outro
for the second episode with Janelle
845
00:55:06,761 --> 00:55:09,764
Glick about trauma.
846
00:55:12,892 --> 00:55:13,310
Thank you
847
00:55:13,310 --> 00:55:16,354
for watching this episode
of Anabaptist Perspectives.
848
00:55:17,063 --> 00:55:20,108
This is the second episode
that we have recorded with Janelle Glick
849
00:55:20,734 --> 00:55:23,737
for her first.
850
00:55:34,706 --> 00:55:35,123
Thank you
851
00:55:35,123 --> 00:55:38,126
for watching this episode
of Anabaptist Perspectives.
852
00:55:38,376 --> 00:55:41,963
This is the second episode
that we have recorded with Janelle Glick.
853
00:55:42,922 --> 00:55:44,215
You can find the link to her
854
00:55:44,215 --> 00:55:47,385
first episode with us about peace
and relationships below.
855
00:55:48,011 --> 00:55:51,723
For the complete library of blog posts
and episodes that we have published,
856
00:55:52,015 --> 00:55:55,018
visit Anabaptist perspectives.org.
857
00:55:56,603 --> 00:55:57,729
That sounds good.
858
00:55:57,729 --> 00:56:00,273
Okay.
859
00:56:00,273 --> 00:56:03,276
I think it's everything done.
860
00:56:03,276 --> 00:56:06,279
Thank you. Yes.
861
00:56:11,368 --> 00:56:12,827
Two hours is a long time.
862
00:56:12,827 --> 00:56:15,830
I try to, you know, conversation.
863
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:18,333
It is. It's tired.
864
00:56:18,333 --> 00:56:21,336
I'm sure.
865
00:56:21,669 --> 00:56:22,462
Hopefully I.
866
00:56:22,462 --> 00:56:23,421
Don't look entirely.
867
00:56:23,421 --> 00:56:26,424
Dazed. Yes.
868
00:56:27,717 --> 00:56:30,095
where do we go from here?
869
00:56:30,095 --> 00:56:33,098
I guess
we need to get the footage to the server.
870
00:56:33,431 --> 00:56:36,935
Have you had success uploading or showing?
871
00:56:37,018 --> 00:56:40,063
I have, that now.
872
00:56:40,563 --> 00:56:44,067
Myron had sent me a couple one time
links.
873
00:56:44,275 --> 00:56:47,320
Yeah, previously, but then they did
create an account for me.
874
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,865
But I had some difficulty logging in.
875
00:56:50,907 --> 00:56:54,119
I did get a password and such set up,
and then,
876
00:56:54,744 --> 00:56:58,581
kind of,
877
00:56:59,749 --> 00:57:03,503
something happened that I needed to do
a reset and had some difficulty with.
878
00:57:03,503 --> 00:57:06,047
So I just need to get back in
touch with Myron and have him
879
00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:09,008
help me.
880
00:57:09,008 --> 00:57:10,760
with whatever
881
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,888
technical issue was going on
with the password reset, and I'll.
882
00:57:13,888 --> 00:57:16,683
I'll be able to upload it to the server.
883
00:57:16,683 --> 00:57:19,310
So I think I can do whatever needs
884
00:57:19,310 --> 00:57:22,313
to be done with the footage is okay
in terms of uploading.
885
00:57:23,231 --> 00:57:23,481
Yeah.
886
00:57:23,481 --> 00:57:26,276
Well, let me, let me know
if you run into any trouble and,
887
00:57:26,276 --> 00:57:29,195
we can try to find another method.
888
00:57:29,195 --> 00:57:30,321
Sure.
889
00:57:30,321 --> 00:57:33,658
I mean, the other method would be physical
hard drive and mail or something,
890
00:57:33,658 --> 00:57:36,661
but we'll try to make sure that something
works.
891
00:57:36,786 --> 00:57:38,788
Yeah, and.
892
00:57:38,788 --> 00:57:40,623
Should be fine.
893
00:57:40,623 --> 00:57:43,626
You can submit invoices to Marlon.
894
00:57:44,878 --> 00:57:47,881
Suppose that's familiar. Yep.
895
00:57:48,548 --> 00:57:50,675
Anything else that.
896
00:57:50,675 --> 00:57:52,218
Would be helpful for me?
897
00:57:52,218 --> 00:57:54,095
No. Okay. I think we're good to go.
898
00:57:54,095 --> 00:57:56,764
I shall probably head out then,
but thank you so much. Yes.
899
00:57:56,764 --> 00:58:01,519
Appreciate your time and yeah, technical
things and the elaborate beautiful setup.
900
00:58:03,354 --> 00:58:06,649
Yes. So the rest of today two
901
00:58:06,858 --> 00:59:15,176
things. To.