[00:00:00] Movie Wars, episode 0004. We got Jaws vs. Jurassic Park, I mean You're gonna need a bigger f*cking boat. Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Movie Wars podcast episode 4. I'm your host Kyle, and we're gonna need a bigger podcast. Hold on to your butts, I'm Drew. And I'm Phil, and if, if If you just put your, put your hand like this, just hold, hold it steady, and um, well, I know we're in a helicopter, but just hold it steady.

[00:00:27] Now, if I put this drop of water on your hand, [00:00:30] uh, will it go down the front, or will it go down the back? Nobody knows, and that's why we're doing this podcast. I wish you could be here to see Phil, because not only does he sound perfectly like Goldblum, he looks like him too, his eyebrows. I don't, I don't, I don't.

[00:00:41] Everything, he even, he even put water in my hand, it was weird. But, uh, today we have another dandy of a, of a war here. We got Jaws vs. Jurassic Park, I mean. Jaws vs. Jurassic Park, let's do it. We don't take it easy on ourselves here at Movie Wars. We like to pick the best and, uh, this is gonna be difficult. I, everyone's faces right now, there's a lot of [00:01:00] intrepidation in the room.

[00:01:00] We don't, we don't know what's gonna happen, do we? Intrepidation? Did I use that word wrong? Extrepidation. Extrapolation. Extrapolation. But yeah, anyway, so we're doing Jaws, and uh, where I want to start is this, you know, one of the, my favorite things about movies and why I think I'm so interested is that the way movies stand the test of time, you know, how different generations view movies, you know, we were, you know, not born when Jaws came out, most of us were young.

[00:01:23] When we saw Jurassic Park the first time, but one of the interesting things about art and especially films today, you know, they're held up [00:01:30] to a different standard and the standard of today seems to be movies are held up against this, you know, who does this movie elevate and who does it not elevate?

[00:01:36] Like there always has to be some kind of purpose. It has to drive some kind of politically driven thing, and I'm not saying there's not a time or a place for that. There definitely is, but it brings me to my point about these two films and about who Steven Spielberg is. These two films, although they have elements of horror, are adventure films and they are nonstop adventures.

[00:01:53] When I, when I watched these two films and I read the Jaws book and Drew read part of, uh, Jurassic Park, it is not easy to make a pure [00:02:00] adventure film. A film that really has no intention other than to take you on a ride, entertain you. You fall in love with characters a little bit, but the characters are there to serve the, to serve the narrative of the adventure.

[00:02:09] And this was confirmed when I watched the extra features on Jaws and I read the book. The first screenplay was written by Peter Benchley and What's interesting is, is Steven Spielberg, it was a hard pass, and he said the same thing that I felt when I read the book, is he said the first act and the third act are great, the middle act, I don't know what to do with.

[00:02:25] There are all these subplots, and it was a book, right, it sold millions of copies, you have to have juice, right, it [00:02:30] can't just be a book about a shark bite and stuff, like, there's a mob thing, and in the book, it's the mob that's putting pressure on the town to not close the beaches because the mob owns all this real estate, and they're gonna start busting kneecaps.

[00:02:40] One of the main characters is Ellen Brody, who is, uh, you know, the chief's wife. She has an affair with Hooper, and she's one of the main characters. She's depressed. She hates her life in the book. She hates that all of her friends married bankers, and they play tennis in the clubhouse, and she's married to a broke cop, and she's got all this denial, which is so different, right, than Oh, yeah, you're sitting here [00:03:00] telling saying this, and I'm like, this is not the movie I watch.

[00:03:03] She's cheery, she encourages him, they're in love, they have this really playful relationship. But all that to say, Want to get drunk and fool around. Yeah, I know, right? I love that line. That was, that was such a great line. It's so good, and the way that, that, uh, is it Lorraine Gray plays that off? I love that.

[00:03:18] But what I'm getting at is that Spielberg looked at that script and said, all this takes away from adventure. All this takes away from the ride I want to take people on. And so he stripped out the affair. He stripped out the tension. [00:03:30] And Brody is this hard ass. He's so, in the book, he's so just annoying and hard assed and not lovable.

[00:03:35] You know, Roy Scheider really brings that character to life. In such a big way and makes him lovable, he's a little grumpy in the movie, but he's mostly lovable, fun, charismatic. And I look at how Spielberg said, we're not gonna do, we're gonna pass on the main author, thank you for writing this script, but that's not what we're gonna do.

[00:03:50] And I think it's so hard because I don't think art stands the test of time very well when you're constantly evaluating it on the basis of what it doesn't do. And that's what I feel like, because we're such a politically [00:04:00] charged, social media driven society today, we put all art in the light of what it doesn't do.

[00:04:05] What it doesn't accomplish. But how can you do that with these two movies? What does it not accomplish? They're act they're I mean, they got great action, but they're adventure films. They take you on the adventure, and I knew when I put in Jaws and when I put in Jurassic Park, no matter how I felt about them, I was going on a ride.

[00:04:19] And I knew what I was gonna get, and I knew I would leave satisfied. I wasn't leaving thinking, well, God, that was really that didn't elevate certain voices, or that didn't And I'm not saying that's not important. We do that. Films and art serve that purpose in a lot [00:04:30] of ways, and that's good. But it's also nice to take a break.

[00:04:32] Well, an interesting thing about Jurassic Park, especially, I know we're talking about Jaws right now, but speaking of what art doesn't do, is if you read the reviews for Jurassic Park in 1993, This movie got some pretty mediocre reviews. And all the reviews talked about how this plot point was flimsy, or that plot point was flimsy, or this piece of acting was bad, or, or this thing was weird, or how like, oh, this movie's all flash and no substance.

[00:04:58] But, like you said, [00:05:00] in the moment, people are talking about what art doesn't do, which is a, a, a big critic thing. Like, any movie that goes on to become a classic, a lot of times gets kind of panned in the beginning for all of the things that it does wrong. But what critics miss, I feel like, a lot of times, especially in the case of Jaws, and if you read the Roger Ebert interview from, er, uh, review from 1993, he's pretty harsh on the movie, on Jurassic Park.

[00:05:24] It's literally all about what the movie does wrong and does poorly. But what stood the test of time is the way the movie makes people feel. [00:05:30] Well, I, I think that there, if you look hard enough, there is a feminist reading of this film. I, uh, you kind of have to dig for it, but Which one, Jaws? Of Jurassic Park.

[00:05:38] Oh, okay. Because of the all females that are in the park, and that they find a way to kind of run the world alone. And, you know, he does the whole like The female seatbelt attachments at the beginning, and yet he ties it up basically foreshadowing like they're both female sides, but they find a way, which is what Goldblum's whole thing was like.

[00:05:56] Life finds a way, which I think is fascinating. And then there's the little [00:06:00] quote from Laura Durran's character, and gold bloom goes on and on about how God ki you know, people kill God. And she was like, and then God kills dinosaurs. Dinosaurs kill men, women inherit the earth, which I think is funny. Wow, you blew my mind just now.

[00:06:12] I didn't. If you look, if you look for it, you can find it. I don't think that was the intention of the storytelling. Yeah. It's there. We're 7 minutes in, 7, 000 feet deep, people. Boom. Gosh. Got a couple of Jurassic Park lovers up in here. So, let's dive right in. So, um, You know, my experience with these movies is I had [00:06:30] a lot of joy seeing Jurassic Park in the theaters.

[00:06:32] My biggest memory, always when I I don't know. I did. I know. I didn't see a lot of movies growing up at theaters because we were poor, but I did see this one somehow. Six, dude. Six. My, I, when I think of Jurassic Park, I always just think of whatever that dinosaur's called that spits venom and stuff, eating Wayne Knight.

[00:06:48] That is, cause it's, cause he's Newman, and I'm a Seinfeld diehard. And seeing him get eaten by a dinosaur and screaming like Newman was hysterical. As I got older, I, I became more critical of the Jaws franchise. Not, never the [00:07:00] first. I've always Heralded the first as a masterpiece, you know, I I think it's the best movie ever made.

[00:07:05] It's not my favorite film My favorite film was taxi driver But I think jaws cinematically speaking from a historical perspective when you put it up against other movies of any genre I think it's the best movie ever made. There's a lot of things about it that aren't perfect But I just think I don't know why I just feel like it's the best movie ever That's what my fan gut tells me My favorite scene is when quentin gets eaten because that was david verse goliath to me, you know quint To me, is this grizzled, amazing, he's one of the best characters.

[00:07:29] Like, when [00:07:30] I watch the movie, what's funny is, I think about the shark, and the moment when the movie's over, I think about Quint. I think about his quotes, I think about how he talks, how Robert Shaw plays him, I think about the speech about the Indianapolis. I mean, he is just lar isn't he larger than life to you guys?

[00:07:42] He's so larger than life, and when the shark eats him, it feels like We lost a good one today. I didn't want him to die, and I know he dies. I've seen this movie hundreds of times. I know he dies, but I never want it to happen. So that scene sticks out to me and, and Jaws. Uh, what is your experience, Drew, with these movies?

[00:07:56] Well, to that point, I think Shaw, Robert Shaw's character, he, he [00:08:00] projected so much confidence that you just didn't feel like it was possible that he wouldn't beat the shark. You're like, oh, we're in good hands with him. Great point. And then when it happened, I think that, and that's, I think that's brilliant storytelling.

[00:08:12] When it happened, it added to the like, no pun intended, jaw dropping when he was eaten. It was like, no, no, this can't be happening. My experience with these films, I cut my teeth on Spielbergian cinema when I was a little kid. E. T., Jurassic Park, Jaws, that was like my wheelhouse as a kid. I loved it. [00:08:30] I will never, ever forget the magnificent feeling.

[00:08:34] When I first saw the dinosaur, the Brachiosaurus, reach up and get the, they, they're like shuffling out of the Jeep and taking off their glasses. And, you know, like, it's just such a magnificent feeling of wonder and awe. And, you know, and Hammond's like, welcome to Jurassic Park. Like, it's just like, as a child that just illuminated your imagination of what could be out there.

[00:08:57] And I think that's the thing that ties [00:09:00] these films together the best is that the star of both of these films in a lot of ways is your imagination because there's not a lot of heavy hitting Hollywood actors. I mean, there's great talent, great actors, but no, there's not a Tom Cruise or a Kevin Costner or like whoever was huge at the time.

[00:09:16] It's all about the shark and the dinosaurs and beyond the shark and the dinosaurs is When you can't see the shark and the dinosaurs, it's when you're looking in the trees and you see the rustling. There's no dinosaur there. That was just them pointing a [00:09:30] camera and shaking some trees. But that moment was alive for the viewer because your imagination was completely lit.

[00:09:36] And so that's why I love these films and that's what I love about Steven Spielberg, so. That was prolific. We could almost end right there. I know, yeah. That was an amazing assessment, my friend. Nobody wants to hear my experience. You just, you warm me up. Do you have any favorite scenes? Well, my favorite Jurassic Park scene is the one with the Brachiosaurus when they first My favorite, I think the most memorable scene is indeed the Quint when he's getting eaten.

[00:09:57] It's just like [00:10:00] Quint, from the moment you meet him, he's sitting in the back of the room, you know, by the chalkboard or whatever. And you're just like, oh, this dude. I'll get that shark for ya. Yeah, this dude's gonna lead us to victory. But, uh, yeah. So I, I think the scene outside of, I mean, you've already talked about the Indianapolis.

[00:10:14] That was a pretty magnificent scene too. Incredible. And Quint eats nothing. Every time he's eating, he eats half, like half a cracker. Remember? He's just like a slow one bite and he's done. It's like. You guys ever noticed his hat is like, the bill of his hat is bent and like off centered. The bill of his hat.

[00:10:27] It's like, it's like bent, but like off [00:10:30] centered. It drives me nuts. You know why I didn't notice? Because I can't stop looking at his teeth. I just, I'm always like looking at his teeth. Thank you, Drew. Phil, what are your experiences with these movies? Oh, man. I should have gone before Drew here. I know, he left us, he left us in the way.

[00:10:42] He pretty much podcasted all over all of us just a second ago. Um, my, my experience, what I would consider to be an experience, is probably much stronger with Jurassic Park because I was Seven or so when that movie came out and so I was of the age where the merchandising of that film [00:11:00] Really took kids like what drew was saying with you know It really makes your imagination just launch and the the imaginative aspects of Jurassic Park I think captured everybody in that age bracket Especially because when you're a kid dinosaurs are already pretty cool like half of us Just grew up playing with dinosaur toys, or just being obsessed with the concept of dinosaurs.

[00:11:19] They're, you know, they're this thing that you learn about in school that existed once, and then there are all kinds of toys around them. So when Jurassic Park came out, that interest just blew sky high. And I [00:11:30] remember the hype around it, and I remember all the kids with the toys and the shirts. But my first experience watching Jurassic Park was when my parents rented it.

[00:11:37] And I snuck into the living room and hid behind the couch and watched half the movie before I got caught and was ushered back off to bed and I remember just watching this whole thing and and being, the whole time just being blown away, like I remember sitting probably 20 feet back from the TV hiding, watching all this and, and seeing the dig site and then when they first see the dinosaurs and just as a [00:12:00] kid being like, This is the coolest thing I've ever seen.

[00:12:02] And it wasn't until I was a tad older that I finally watched the movie all the way through. And then it wasn't as an adult that I wat until I was an adult that I watched Jaws. I don't know what it was, but something about Jaws and the and the legend around it. And I guess the simple title, it's just called Jaws with a shark jumping out.

[00:12:17] It made me think like, oh, it's not this great movie, it's just a monster film. And I remember when I saw it for the first time, I was like, man, this there is some significant substance here. This is truly a great film. And then watching it again for this podcast. [00:12:30] Man, there were just so many subtleties and amazing parallels of things that I think people think that we're only going through now in this generation with the cattiness and aggressiveness of people was reflected so well in Jaws because that town goes from like Zero to sixty on the concept in no time and people flip into panic mode, you know You've got people wanting them to close the beach and people not wanting them to close the beach and people wanting them You know It's gonna it's gonna destroy the town and destroy the 4th of July if you close the beach and just the minutiae of [00:13:00] human Emotion and politics has really never changed and at the end of the day the thing that Jaws That I came away from this viewing of Jaws with, was that people are the same, they've never changed, and that when, if you give people something to be controversial about, they're gonna do it.

[00:13:15] Because in this movie, It was, I mean, this movie could have been made at any time, and I feel like the human reaction would have been the same. So, um, to me, that was what Jaws conveyed. Aside from, that's what made the movie great, was that capturing of the human side of it. And what made it [00:13:30] interesting, of course, is the fact that it's this gigantic shark who can destroy boats.

[00:13:34] Uh, so yeah. Yeah? You have any favorite scenes? This is gonna be a weird one, but for Jaws, my favorite scene is when, uh, the police chief's sitting on the beach in early in the movie, keeping an eye out, because there had been that shark attack, they found the girl, and he wanted to close the beach, and and the town didn't want him to, so he's just there nervously watching.

[00:13:54] And, uh, the girl jumps out of the water and starts screaming and he thinks it's a shark attack but it's, she's just being flipped [00:14:00] upside down by her boyfriend or something. And then when someone finally gets attacked by the shark, that scene of the camera zooming in on his face and the entire background blurring, dude, that scene got me.

[00:14:11] Yeah. It was amazing cinematography, especially for the time, and the, and the, the vision to shoot a scene like that. Loved it. Isn't it crazy how that movie's about a shark? But you see little of it and so much of the horror is about what you're not seeing the human reaction. Yeah, it's insane You just pointed out something huge that scene and [00:14:30] I didn't think about that that way when they zoom in on the she's face He's just literally like because he knows look the acting in that moment and the look on his face.

[00:14:38] It wasn't overdone He wasn't like slack jawed staring at the ocean. He just had this look like he was realizing what was happening And the way the camera zoomed in just drove it home and it was, I, I had to pause it and watch it more than once because it was just so amazing. Just getting some randos here.

[00:14:53] Jurassic Park had some cool scenes too. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, right, the dinosaur looked great, yeah. Do you want to talk about a favorite scene from Jurassic Park? [00:15:00] Uh, no. Oh, I have one, I have one. Go ahead. Ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah. Ah, ah, ah. You didn't say the magic word. Wayne Knight from Seinfeld in every way is amazing in this movie.

[00:15:13] So it took three days to film the very first scene of Jaws. So the girl in the water, that took three days in and of itself, just the intro. Wow. I was watching a documentary on Jaws last night and apparently it was a total cluster. Like the whole shooting, they had only set out to film for like [00:15:30] 55 days and it ended up being like 120 or something.

[00:15:32] I think it was 171 days or something like that. Good lord. It was a lot. Uh, 4 million budget that went to like 14 million, which now is like a 30 million budget going to like 150 or something like, like that's a colossal failure from a studio standpoint. So Spielberg literally almost got fired every day.

[00:15:51] Dude was 27. Wow. Can you imagine? Unreal. Juggling. 14, 000, 000 of a major studio's money in [00:16:00] 1974, and like, nothing is going right, and they can't frickin get the shot because sailboats are coming into the scenes, and they can't keep the cameras still, and stuff's getting wet, and all this stuff, like They said that if a sailboat was coming, it was an hour and 15 minutes minimum.

[00:16:14] You'd wait. Because it took so long for us, because if it was wide angled and it was in the bag, it took an hour for the ship just to pass. Yeah, and then they had the, they asked, he had to make the decision, like, do I, I've got seven minutes here, where I could try to shoot it, or if I miss it, or another boat comes [00:16:30] in right after, and then I've gotta, like, reset, and I've wasted a whole nother, yeah, it's, it was a riddled shooting schedule.

[00:16:36] Yeah, and that, that scene in and of itself, there's a lot more to it than I ever thought, so I think we watched the same documentary. When I watched it They were talking about the way they did it, and Steven Spielberg was one of the people doing this. They tied cables to the girl, and they were pulling the cables from the beach, or from the sides, and they would do it randomly.

[00:16:54] So the terror you're seeing is real, because they did it unpredictably. There was no pattern. She says in the commentary that she's [00:17:00] horrified, because they actually don't, she doesn't know, and she's in the ocean, and she doesn't know how or from what direction she's getting pulled, so. What did they tie the cables to?

[00:17:08] There was some kind of railing system they used. I was like, if that was on her body, that would be painful. Yeah, it was around her waist, and she said it was, she said it hurt. Like, it was not comfortable. Yeah, I can imagine. And she said it was scary because if something had gone wrong, there was no way for them to know if it was going wrong, because she was screaming and losing her mind as an actress.

[00:17:26] So, it's not like she can be like, help, help, save me. Like, [00:17:30] because she's already saying that. Did they not have a safe word? Like, Peanut Butter Crackers, you know? Yeah, not that I heard of. That would have been a great moment, because Steven Spielberg talks about how he just almost quit. Like, he wanted to quit so many times because of how poorly he went.

[00:17:43] That would have been a great time to quit while she was strapped in. Mm hmm. In order to be like, I can't do this. And he just leaves her in the water. So, the shark doesn't appear in full form for an hour and 21 minutes. And that wasn't intentional. It was because, like you said earlier, Drew, the shark never works.

[00:17:57] It worked less frequently than it didn't work. I mean, it never [00:18:00] worked, it was part of the reason Spielberg wanted to quit. You know, when you watch the documentary and watch it being made, it's pretty incredible what they accomplished when they built it. And the thing weighed over a ton, it was 25 feet long.

[00:18:10] But you put it in salt water, and also it was really cold, it was one of the worst seasons to film. They were in Martha's Vineyard. Amity is actually Martha's Vineyard. Horrible waters, horrible weather, cold. No wonder the thing didn't work ever. But what's funny is how much it plays into the advantage of the movie.

[00:18:24] Almost better that it didn't work because yes, the lack of seeing the shark is so [00:18:30] freaking horrendous So that's why they use the barrels and that's why they use all these different Mechanisms to show the shark without showing the shark well something interesting about the fact that you didn't see the shark for the first hour and 20 minutes is Spielberg and his subsequent movies have never been able to assist escape that because especially in the case of Jurassic Park, all the reviews I read for Jurassic Park from the time period were comparing Jurassic Park to Jaws and saying like, Steven Spielberg did a really amazing thing with not showing the shark in [00:19:00] Jaws, it's really too bad he couldn't, you know, keep the lid on in Jurassic Park because you see the dinosaurs 20 minutes in.

[00:19:05] Yeah. And everyone knocked him for that. And to me that was a little insane. It's insane. Because, it's kind of a who cares thing, but why does Jurassic Park need to be the same as Jaws? Like, why does it need to be held to that standard? It's a different movie. But because he set that, that standard with Jaws, everybody, for some reason, expected it with Jurassic Park, you know, 17 years later.

[00:19:25] And it was a theme park. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you're gonna I mean, you're going to see the stuff. I mean, and [00:19:30] also, you know, what are we, almost 30 years after the fact with Jurassic Park and no one cares cause it's a great movie. So you shove that, that a nitpicky bullsh*t up your ass. Phil, ladies and gentlemen, Spielberg insisted on filming it in Martha's vineyard on the water because the studio wanted to do it.

[00:19:48] Like, let's do it in a studio with the pool or let's do it like a controlled lake of some sort. And Spielberg was like, nah. We got to do the real thing. We have to actually create suspense. And there's the [00:20:00] water, the nature of the water and the ocean is just different than it's in a lake and definitely in a pool.

[00:20:05] And so that was his decision as a, you know, just leading the shoot. Like that was his call, ended up getting into a lot of trouble because he couldn't, he had no control. But then as a creative, just made a narrative decision, like, okay, shark doesn't work. I have to find a new way to tell this story. And like you said, it.

[00:20:21] Ended up being the best way. The barrels were terrifying. Yes! As someone who hasn't seen this movie, but like once or twice prior to this, I'd forgotten a lot of that. [00:20:30] Every time the barrels popped up, I was like, Oh, there he is. Like, it was just this subconscious terror that comes over you. I know, think about what they conveyed.

[00:20:38] Remember, basically, Quint, I can't remember exact phrasing, but he'll never be able to drag the barrels down. And when the shark drags the barrels, you're not even seeing the shark, but you see him drag the barrels like, Okay, that's what we're dealing with. And the shark in that scene is the most real that it's, as it is in any other scene.

[00:20:54] And just that little brief narration is all you needed. Like he'll never bring down two barrels. And then [00:21:00] another point, like when he brought down the other one, he's like, you brought it down? He's like, it's like nothing I've ever seen before or something like that. It's just like little, just a line here, a line there.

[00:21:08] They don't waste a lot of time on exposition, exposition. It's just boom, boom, moves the story along. The pacing is so good. Uh, it's just great. Incredible storytelling, really. And some of it was by accident. You gotta wonder what it would have been like if 27 year old Spielberg didn't take the risk of using a mechanical shark in a real ocean during the worst time of the year.

[00:21:26] What if they had used a real shark in a mechanical ocean? Sharks these days. [00:21:30] Jaws 5, maybe. Mind blowing. I know, that's what you get. You get Jaws 4, The Revenge, which has a 0 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. That's what you get when a 27 year old Spielberg world liked it. Well, it's funny because Spielberg did Lost World, which was a Jurassic Park sequel.

[00:21:44] I always wondered, like, why didn't he do Jaws 2? It was such a phenomenon, like, watching the behind the scenes footage on this film, it's like, oh, of course he didn't do the second one, that was a nightmare to film, like a total train wreck. Of course it ended up being a great piece of work, but it was not fun for [00:22:00] anybody.

[00:22:00] It's, I mean, it's probably the same reason, uh, in RoboCop he didn't want to play RoboCop again. I was literally just thinking that. He didn't want to be in the suit anymore, you know? It's just, I can't imagine going, like, you want me to go back to those conditions? Like, no. Actually to that, if I may just interject, Richard Dreyfuss turned Spielberg down initially because he didn't want to film on the water.

[00:22:18] He's like, why? That sounds terrible. I'd rather stay home and watch it when you're done. Like, I don't want to be a part of that, but his, his first debut picture came out and it was. It got terrible reviews and everybody's saying like, [00:22:30] if this comes out and you don't have another job lined up, you may never work again.

[00:22:33] So he called Spielberg back and said, okay, nevermind, I'll do it. That's how badly he only did it because he was afraid that he was going to lose his career. He thought he would never get a job again. He literally would call him back, he's like, Hey, and, and Steven Spielberg was happy to have him back. And Lorraine Gray, who plays Ellen Brody, was super disappointed that Spielberg took the sex scene out of the book because she was actually kind of like crushing on having a sex scene with Richard Dreyfuss.

[00:22:56] She says that in the, in her interview. She was [00:23:00] super bummed. Richard Dreyfuss looks like a hippie college student in that movie. Just like, I love animals. I feel like he kind of looks like Steven Spielberg a little bit. Yeah. He looks like the fuzzy hair and the spectacle glasses. Like, I feel like he kind of cast himself.

[00:23:13] It's sort of like when Christopher Nolan cast Leo. It's like, there's a little bit of like, I'm casting myself here. And this really speaks, and I know we're really going off on this rando, but this is a great conversation. It really speaks to Spielberg choosing to move away from Benchley's screenplay, because these [00:23:30] characters are not lovable in the book.

[00:23:32] Like, Hooper is annoying in the book. Uh, you know, Ellen Brody is, is desperately sad and depressed. Like, he elevates these characters to lovability. He really did. The only person you don't love is the mayor, and you kind of do love him because he wears those crazy suits. Yeah, and honestly, I'm glad that they went the direction they did with the chief, because I felt for the guy the entire film.

[00:23:51] Like, this poor dude, first off, he's coming in from, what, New York City, right? So everybody's already thinking like, oh, you're a big city cop, you don't know anything. And he [00:24:00] encounters this nightmare scenario. Where there's a, this beast attacking the people of the town. He's, he's lobbying for something that will literally destroy the tourism industry of the town.

[00:24:10] This guy is like, just exists in conflict. And you can see it on his face the entire film. And dude, I just felt for the, for the dude the whole time. And that's such a archetypal role too. There's always the guy that's like trying to toe the line between the company, like there's like he's working for the man, the government, the corporation, whatever, who's like overly concerned about money [00:24:30] and optics and yeah, it's just that guy.

[00:24:33] And in hindsight, you're watching the movie and you're like, it's probably easy to prescribe what you would do. It's like, well, you're just close the beach, duh, you close the beach. But like, dude, nobody in the moment. Knows what to do in those scenarios like you know what to do But then there are so many politics involved and so many things and in the moment There's so much conflict going on within that decision making process And I felt like they nailed it in this film with the way that the the police chief was conveyed and the [00:25:00] acting behind it It was it was so that to me his character was my favorite thing about Jaws Yeah, and that's one element, actually, from the book.

[00:25:07] This is probably the only thing I wish they would've kept, was, in the book, the town has had multiple bad tourism seasons. So, when this starts happening with the shark, they're in despair, because they've had a couple of down tourism seasons, and like, because the mob has I wouldn't want the mob in there, but because the town Has mob ownership in it.

[00:25:25] They're like, we can't have another bad season. Like, we've already been, people have already been losing their jobs. So the town is [00:25:30] already in economic distress in the book. You don't really get that in the movie. It just seems like everything's fine, and this is the first bad season they'd have if it was the shark.

[00:25:38] But I did like that kind of economic tension where people were losing their jobs because they've been having bad seasons. Real estate sales were down. Well, it made it, it gave the whole thing some weight. Like, how easy would it have been to just be like, well, close the beach. And then they close the beach and nothing happens.

[00:25:50] I mean. It gave the whole thing some realistic weight. And that's, like I said before, just the politics and the general humanity that was displayed in that, I felt, was super [00:26:00] accurate. There's a really relatable blue collar kind of feel to that city. I really related to that city. Oh, absolutely. I found myself wanting the whole Because the movie is too Really, it's two movies.

[00:26:10] The first act, I mean, it's kind of, it's really two acts. The first act is on the beach and it doesn't go in the water hardly at all. And the second act is just, okay, they're going to the water and they're never going to come back. But I just find myself, anytime I go on vacation to a beach or beach town, I think of Jaws.

[00:26:25] I want to watch Jaws. Like, it just feels like home. And you don't go in the ocean, so you don't have to [00:26:30] worry about it. See, I love going in the ocean and I actually can't watch Jaws close because I will think about the shark. Literally, and it's, it's a 40 year old, 50 year old movie, I still think about sharks.

[00:26:38] It's almost 50 years old. Unbelievable. 46 Still looks incredible. I love it. It looks better than any CGI shark ever. Deep blue sea, that shark still is more convincing. So we'll storm through because we haven't even gotten into Jurassic Park randos. Um, you're gonna need a bigger boat is improvised. So that was an improvised line.

[00:26:56] Yeah. Genius. Completely. And it's just amazing. Movie magic is amazing. [00:27:00] And IMP improv improvisation is movie magic to me. Like literally the biggest line of the biggest film of all time at the time. 'cause it was the first modern blockbuster was just made up on the spot. Apparently there was a lot of improv happening because they were like, right.

[00:27:13] The next, obviously they had rough outlines for the film, but they would write the dialogue for the next scenes. They were gonna shoot the, the following day the screenwriter and Steven would get together in their cabin that they shared during the shoot. and just tighten it up, tweak stuff, they had the actors from the scenes come by because they studied their character and they [00:27:30] knew how to bring them to life and so the whole thing was just kind of like in flux the whole time.

[00:27:34] These two points are kind of connected so Robert Shaw and Richard Dreyfuss hated each other. Robert Shaw was a drunk and he actually was drunk a lot on set but he also was a very competitive dedicated actor and that's kind of the weird two sides of Robert Shaw is yes he was a drunk but no one was more competitive, more dedicated on set than to acting.

[00:27:51] He would yell. I'll give you five dollars to jump off the mast of the sailboat like he was just constantly just [00:28:00] getting under his skin and you can sense in the commentary and even though Robert Shaw is dead and Dreyfus isn't, Dreyfus really has no bones about it. He's like, Shaw was a dick. Like, you can kind of sense, but one thing that is true, is that during the Indianapolis scene, so this is why these two are connected, first of all, Shaw was drunk the first time he did that scene, and he completely slaughtered it.

[00:28:19] Like, he thought it was horrible. He asked Steven Spielberg how it went, and Spielberg was like, well, it's not gonna ruin your career, but, and so he said, give me one more chance, so he sobered up, he rewrote the whole scene himself. Because he was also a writer. He was actually [00:28:30] a great writer. He wrote that scene for himself, and even though Dreyfus hated him, he said that the hardest thing about that scene was actually fighting back tears.

[00:28:37] Because he said the way that Shaw, and they didn't expect it, they didn't know what he wrote. And when he did it differently that next day, sober, and, and the way he wrote it, he said, I couldn't, I almost couldn't stop, like, almost crying. the way he delivered that. He was so moved. Think about the, it's the one heavy moment in the whole movie, right?

[00:28:54] Because it's mostly adventure, a little bit of horror, but mostly adventure with some tension built in. And then you have this [00:29:00] speech and it kind of comes out of nowhere in the movie and you would almost from a 30, 000 foot view say there's no continuity here with this scene, but it is the best scene in the movie.

[00:29:07] You got to bring that humanity down to earth, you know? Exactly. That's well said Phil. That was the moment that it went from being a movie to a film. It took it from just, like, entertainment to, like, it gave it some heart and some, you know, some real substance. And the fact that he wrote it in, oh man, I visualize, it's funny, we have a literal shark in the movie, but I'm just imagining, like, little sharks just eating hundreds of people out of the [00:29:30] water after that wreck, like, and that stays with you, like, and he conveys that horror, it's so convincing, it's one of the best scenes.

[00:29:36] Ever in cinematic history. Well, and it grounds it because Indianapolis was a real thing. So as he's sitting there talking about that, you get goosies all over because you're like, Oh my God, this happened. Like 1200 men went into the ocean and only 300 of them, like they just watched their friends get eaten for five days.

[00:29:55] Like it's just the most chilling. And it totally explains Quint. You're like, oh, this is [00:30:00] hard ass. What's his deal? You know, what's his story? Why does he have such a vengeance against sharks? Why will he find a shark for three grand but only kill it for ten? Right? But then he tells that story and you're like, oh, I get you.

[00:30:11] And we can all relate to that. We all know those people who are like, why are you such a dickhead? Hardened. And then you get to know them and you hear their story and you're like, oh, okay. I can appreciate you for who you are. And it's masterful storytelling, because I don't know, and again, Spielberg's 27, so I keep wondering, like, what I was doing when I was 27, I was not Steven [00:30:30] Spielberg, obviously.

[00:30:31] Like, how intentional was he being? Because think about, from a storytelling perspective, how they used, they used a moment of levity to launch into that, because they're talking about scars. Dreyfuss says, Hooper says, the girl Moffat broke his heart, and they're laughing, and Right. He kind of makes light of one of the scars, and it's the scar that leads to the story.

[00:30:48] And I love how, like, they're laughing, and do you, just think about it for a minute, guys. When Shaw goes inward, because they're all laughing, they're laughing about their scars, Shider's kind of not involved, he's kind of just drinking and looking and they're [00:31:00] laughing. But Shaw doesn't go right into the story.

[00:31:03] Hooper Calls out the scar and Shaw kind of just looks down and kind of looks left and well, Hooper, that was the Indianapolis and he kind of the way he that's almost the most masterful part is he slowly drifts into that story out of that moment of levity where Hooper is literally having an asthma attack laughing about He's Moffat breaking his heart.

[00:31:20] That is masterful to me the way and he went somewhere you can tell that he just in his mind like Just went somewhere when he's telling that story. He is shaw in that moment, or he is quinn. He's no [00:31:30] longer shaw You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Oh, yeah, that's some just brilliant acting. Yeah, apparently he he called steven at 3 30 am the next morning after he did his scenes drunk and was like How badly did I embarrass myself?

[00:31:45] Who do I need to apologize to is this? It's irreparable, basically. And Spielberg's like, come back and do it again. We could talk about Jaws for like three hours. We have another movie to get to, Kyle. Gonna be the longest podcast of all time. I do want to say one more fun fact, though. Steven Spielberg called the [00:32:00] special effects department the special defects department, because the shark never worked.

[00:32:05] Nothing like raising morale. They constantly referred to him as the I just can't imagine running something like that at 27. That is a daunting. I mean, to lead What was I doing at 27? Yeah, I just keep thinking, like, I would have buckled for sure. So, Rando's about Jurassic Park. So, we got Stan Winston again on Jurassic Park.

[00:32:24] Is Stan Winston in almost every movie? That we've done, except for Jaws. Every iconic great movie, yeah. What's amazing [00:32:30] about Stan Winston, and, and, I, I experienced, when we covered Aliens, when he, when he went to Aliens, cause he only consulted in certain areas in Aliens, one thing that James Cameron said about Stan Winston is, he never, Winston is never afraid of what's new.

[00:32:42] Like, the reason he's had so much longevity is, yes he does Alien, But when we said we were going to use certain technologies or, and actually, uh, they said this in Terminator 2 about Stan Winston, because he helped design the T 1000, he wasn't afraid of CGI. Yes, he was a practical effects guy his whole life, but he knew where the industry was going and he wanted [00:33:00] to innovate, and because of that, that's why he's had so much, he's been on every amazing movie, because in his mind, he's like, I don't care that I'm used to practical effects, like, I want to see innovation, and he just, he rides the wave, and James Cameron said that's why he's so successful.

[00:33:12] So, so, um, and this, Drew, this is gonna really stick out to you, and you may already know this, but other possible candidates for roles in this movie were William Hurt, Harrison Ford, Yep. Alan Grant, Christina Ricci as Lex, cause she was the age of the girl, and Sean Connery as Jan, John Hammond. I mean, I can honestly see all those.

[00:33:29] Yeah. [00:33:30] Well, there's, totally, and think about what was popular at the time. Indiana Jones, of course, there's a very Harrison Ford esque thing happening with, with, uh, Sam Neill's character. There's a very Connery thing happening with, with John Hammond's character. Like that, that was what was kind of in the public consciousness.

[00:33:49] So that makes total sense. Yeah, and actor Richard Attenborough, who played Hammond, came out of retirement. He had been done with acting for years when he took that role. He was in Hamlet. It's always interesting to [00:34:00] me to hear the alternates considered for a part, or maybe sometimes the first people considered for a part, that either turned it down or were passed over.

[00:34:07] Because it's interesting to see. See where the writers and directors minds were when laying the groundwork for the film because sometimes you like something like Sean Connery and Harrison Ford and Christina Ricci. You're like, I can see that. I think that would have still made a great iconic film. I think we'd still be here talking about it.

[00:34:24] I don't think it would have changed anything. That's the 90s crew. Yeah. That was, I mean, Christina Ricci was in the Casper movie, which was huge. [00:34:30] I think it was around the same time, too. Adam's family, I mean, she was in all the major stuff. Yeah, Adam's family. But I'm gonna keep harping on this. Part of the allure of these films is that the star was the dinosaurs and the sharks.

[00:34:42] So if you overcast, if you put a frickin giant head movie star, they overshadow. Uh, one of the, I think Charlton Heston was supposed to be Roy Scheider's character. Yep. And that just would have been, Roy is, we love Roy Scheider in that role because he's just like every man. He's us. Yes. You love Goldbloom because you just [00:35:00] feel like you're just, you, you relate to him.

[00:35:01] He's goofy, he's quirky, he's not dead sexy, even though he, you know, had that button down shirt there. It's pretty, pretty sexy there for a minute. But, other than that, like, you like these guys because they're not huge stars. Those things blooms like gold. Although, I will argue this. Robin Wright as Ellie instead of Lara Dern.

[00:35:17] Lara Dern's great, I don't have a problem, but I love Robin Wright. And she wasn't too big, Forrest Gump was her biggest thing. You can't go wrong with Robin Wright. Robin Wright. Of course, now it's easy to say she's larger than life with House of Cards, but I would have liked [00:35:30] that. This was the first digital soundtrack.

[00:35:32] Pretty crazy, right? What do you mean, like how so? Like the first movie where they actually like incorporated digital elements in the score, in making the score. So what they would do is they would take like an elephant sound, a penguin squeal, an ostrich sound, and they would record them and assign them to a MIDI, basically.

[00:35:49] And so they would play a chord of the, a mix of those animal sounds to make like The T Rex role. Oh, interesting. Like a lion. This animal is a lion, a bird, and a thing, [00:36:00] and it's just like, like they would play it as, and it was all digital. And of course it's Sean Williams. Well, that stuff wasn't John Williams.

[00:36:07] But didn't he oversee that stuff? No, he would, that would have been sound effects, but he did score. Yeah. I just went in hard with John Williams and Drew denied me, but I deserved it. I deserved it. You heart of the pan, I blocked it. You swatted me down like Dikembe Mutombo. Called for charging. In that moment.

[00:36:20] Ah, ah, ah. You didn't say the magic sound effects guy. Last random fact, and I love this, and this speaks to the acting. [00:36:30] The actors had to respond to nothing most of the time because there was so much CGI. There was a lot of blue screen, or green screen in that movie, dude. Woo! And a lot of Sam Neill and Laura Dern.

[00:36:39] And the kids in the movie acting and responding to nothing, so what they did was Steven Spielberg walked around with a bullhorn making fake noises. And so he would make fake noises or play noises into the bullhorn and they had to like focus on him and, and pretend. Like, they were reacting to something real, but most of what they're reacting to, and especially in the outdoor scenes, is nothing.

[00:36:59] There's actually [00:37:00] not a lot of green screen in there, because it's all outside. There's just nothing there. So they're just acting against nothing. Like that magnificent scene that I described earlier when they're like, stumbling out of the jeep and looking at, you know, pulling off their sunglasses or whatever.

[00:37:12] They're reacting to literally trees. Steven Spielberg was just holding up a bag of Doritos in the distance, and he's like, you, you nail this scene, you get the bag of chips. This bag of Doritos is a dinosaur. Shall we war, gentlemen? Let's war! Let's war! Let's do the war card. This is gonna be tight. Can we score two?

[00:37:29] What was that? [00:37:30] Nothing, never mind, forget me. All right, Phil, f*ck off. All right. Do you know if you say f*ck you, Phil, then you have to spell f*ck P H U C K. Really? Yeah. Okay, seems about right. So we'll start with what we usually start with here, a best top bill cast. So this is our, you know, our A listers, our major stars.

[00:37:47] Drew, what do you think? Oh, that's a, that's a tough one. Uh, I, man. I think I gotta go, I gotta go Jaws. Okay. Mmm. Why? Because I love Richard Dreyfuss. I think he accidentally made the [00:38:00] most brilliant decision he could have ever made by doing this film. And it's sort of, I just don't see Richard Dreyfuss becoming Richard Dreyfuss without this movie.

[00:38:07] Um, and then Robert Shaw. It felt like Roy was kind of like on the come up at the time. He was already an established actor. He wasn't a big star, but he was like kind of in the middle of it. Robert Shaw was a legend of the past and Dreyfus was kind of like the new guy that became a star. So it felt like that feels like that's like what you want as a top build.

[00:38:26] Like you want the trifecta, the legend, the guy in the heart, [00:38:30] the heart of his career and the newbie. I'm going to go slow and steady wins the race here with Jurassic Park. Okay. Cause you had Richard Attenborough, Sam Neill. Laura Dern. Yeah, I mean, you got Peaky Blinders in Sam Neill's corner, and you've got What Don't You Have in Jeff Goldblum's corner.

[00:38:45] Yeah, Goldblum is sneaky good in this movie. Yeah, he's sneaky good in a lot of movies. That's his thing. People, like, compare existence to Jeff Goldblum. Yeah. Now his presence in his voice is a meme, you know? Yeah, he really is great. You know, I gotta go Jaws and, uh, you know, [00:39:00] This is, this is gonna suck, but Sam Neill, this is the only movie I don't like him in that I've seen.

[00:39:06] I'm a big fan of the Damien, the Omen franchise, and even though Final Conflict, which is Damien 3, or Omen 3 didn't get great reviews, I thought he nailed it as an adult Damien. And that was kind of like, that was late 70s, right? Or early 80s? Event Horizon. He is horrifying in Event Horizon with Lawrence Fishburne, like, this is literally the only movie, and this is, this is the scene that I can't get over with Sam Neill.

[00:39:26] When, at the beginning when the kids are at the dig site and they're [00:39:30] asking questions, he's so arrogant. Yes. With everything he knows. 100%. It annoys the sh*t out of me with how arrogant he is about everything he knows about dinosaurs, like, he was there. He was like, you know what a raptor, this is a raptor claw, you know, and he's like But, counterpoint to that.

[00:39:43] If you don't have a true reference point for your knowledge, then what do you have? Just what you know and what you've studied. And so he's one of the foremost experts in dinosaurism. We'll call it that. Okay, paleontology. In the world, yeah. Dinosaurism. Paleo dietology. I like [00:40:00] dinosaurism better though. So.

[00:40:01] I'd think if you hadn't actually seen them before, if that was what I was, that was my field, and I was like one of the world's top experts in it, I'd probably be pretty cocky about it too. Yeah, I like humility in my paleontologist. Ha ha ha! Counterpoint, to the counterpoint though. Ooh. Later on, when he's with the little kid, the, the little boy, who is Timmy or Jimmy or something?

[00:40:22] Yeah, Timmy, I think, is like, his biggest fan. He's read his books, he's read his dissertations, he's asking all the right questions, [00:40:30] he knows the industry, and he's a frickin what, 7, 8 year old kid? And he's still a total dickhead! Yeah. He's looking like He's just not likable. And Laura Dern, I also don't find likable.

[00:40:43] If I'm picking myths, it's those two. It's those two. And I don't even really like the kids. It's the storytelling for me with Jurassic Park. That's the genius. So, that's why I went Jaws. Yeah, and you mentioned it, Roy Scheider, and especially when you read the book, I know you two didn't read the book, but they elevate these [00:41:00] characters.

[00:41:00] Cause the characters in the book are not recognizable. If you had never seen the movie, you would have no reference point. Because in the book, they're all different. Quint's barely in it. He's at the end and he dies by accident. He's not even eaten by the shark. Hooper's a dick. Dies of drunkenness. Yeah, Scheuter's annoying, but, or sorry, uh, Brody's annoying.

[00:41:15] But Scheuter is such an everyman in this movie. And Quint is so legendary. And like I said, I don't know much else about Robert Shaw, admittedly, but there's just too many stars aligning and there's just too much going on. I'm too annoyed by Sam Neill's performance so I gotta go Jaws. You know who does know a lot [00:41:30] about Robert Shaw?

[00:41:31] All the people with Google that will then comment in the comment section. Good for them. They know a lot about Robert Shaw because they just Googled him. That's great. They can war with us on Reddit then. We said we're fans. We're not critics here, okay? But yeah, so that's one point for Jaws. I mean, Phil, you stood your ground and I respect it, but you lose.

[00:41:47] I will always stand my ground. So I'll kick us off on supporting cast. Drew, you say you don't like the kids, and I think aside from Jeff Goldblum When you think about child actors in general, these kids are some of the best kid actors I've said, I've [00:42:00] seen. And the girl that plays Lex, her name, Ariana Richards, and also she was one of my favorite interviews in the commentary, or in the special features, just hearing her talk about her experience on screen.

[00:42:10] I think they're just some of the best kid actors. Her screaming and her terror, it's a little over the top, but it does it for me. I think they're great. And you got Wayne Knight. Samuel L. Jackson and I love Wayne Knight as Newman. I actually go Jurassic Park on Supporting Cast. I think that the top Bill Cast and Jaws is unbeatable, but I, I, it's hard to beat Samuel L.

[00:42:27] Jackson and Wayne Knight together. They're just larger than life [00:42:30] characters. They're so funny. The kids are amazing. I go Jurassic Park for Supporting Cast. Agree 100%. You're looking at Richard Attenborough, one of the, one of the longtime legends. We've got Wayne Knight, one of the funniest. You know, supporting stars in his world at the time with Seinfeld.

[00:42:45] Samuel L. Jackson, before he's Samuel L. Jackson, they found a gem. You know, a diamond in the rough, if you will. Um, the kids, I could take or leave the kids. I thought they were fine. They were fine. Um, but I think the lawyer is good. Like even when, when Hammond's saying, we are not, [00:43:00] we're not only doing this for the ultra rich or whatever.

[00:43:01] And he's like, so we'll have a family day or we'll have a, we'll have a coupon day. We'll have a coupon day. Like the little lines like that, that he delivered were just great. And what was the other, so, so the, the, the scientists, the Asian scientists who talked about how they're all women, just the arrogance of like, I'm a scientist.

[00:43:18] Like he's kind of smarmy and we are God. Uh, yeah. So I definitely agree. Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park all the way, all the same reasons. Like what? I don't need to give more reasons. Alright, we're gonna get into, we're pretty quick off the [00:43:30] bat here with a fun category. What would you rather get eaten by? Jaws or a dinosaur?

[00:43:34] And any dinosaur, it's fine. I mean, I'll go. Go, Phil. Dinosaur. Why? Easy. Because then you could say you got eaten by a f*cking dinosaur. Who you gonna tell, God? Yeah, or whatever's after this life. Why would you want to be eaten by a shark? You're, first off, you're in the water, and the water sucks. At least with a dinosaur, no one else has been eaten by a dinosaur.

[00:43:52] Why, like that, at least you get to die uniquely. Of all things, I didn't expect this to be a PSA against you. Water. Yeah. [00:44:00] Today. Water sucks. Water sucks. It really, really sucks. Just in general, or the ocean? Well, Gatorade not only tastes better, it quenches your thirst better. So But there are no sharks in your Gatorade.

[00:44:08] This is true. Which is also why Gatorade's better. Amen, brother. Yeah. So you're going Jurassic Park. You'd rather be eaten by a dinosaur. If I have to be f*cking eaten by something In this case, you have to be eaten. If I have to be eaten, it's gonna be by a dinosaur. Cause no one else would have been eaten by the dinosaur, and I can, you know, like I said, I can go tell my dead friends.

[00:44:28] Like, I was eaten by a [00:44:30] dinosaur, and you were killed in a cra in a car wreck, you stupid son of a b*tch. Drew, you two are a clever girl.

[00:44:39] Uh, I'm gonna Say if it's a T Rex or a shark, I'm going to go T Rex because they're bigger and I feel like you would die quicker. I feel like it's kind of, it'd be a slow, painful, agonizing death with a shark. Yes. Although it'd be similar with a raptor. Raptors are just smaller. Raptors tear you apart. Yeah, it's more agile.

[00:44:56] It's more agile. And they scratch. Dinosaur, no doubt. [00:45:00] Quicker. Get her over with. Cool her death. Well, I go Jurassic Park 2, and the reason for me is with the shark, I mean, it doesn't, if you're just basing it on the movies, not because, here's the interesting about Jaws, I mean, this became what people thought sharks were because the research on sharks was so minimal compared to, we didn't have Shark Week, we didn't have these people dedicating their lives, we knew very little.

[00:45:19] So, that was what people thought about sharks for a long time. And in the movie, the shark likes to toy with some of the people, like the lady at the very beginning. He drags her around for five minutes before he decides to finally pull her [00:45:30] under. And, when he pulls you under, do you drown first and then he eats you?

[00:45:33] Or do you, do you, does he swallow you and you have to live in the gut for a minute? I mean, there's so many potential horrible outcomes. Like Drew said, I think if a T Rex bites you in half You might, you might have a couple of gas, but you know what's, you know what's going on. You're on land, at least you're dry, no one wants to be wet too long, you don't want to get rashes.

[00:45:50] I thought this wasn't a PSA against water? Water sucks, okay? I couldn't hold it in, I didn't want to You just totally agreed with him. You got mad at him for being mad at [00:46:00] water, and then you were pro land. I am pro land, and I gotta tell you, I'm pro land here. This isn't a Jurassic Park Jaws vs. water. It really is.

[00:46:10] Imagine being in a shark's stomach, maybe. Because maybe in the stomach of the shark, you've already lost a limb. Maybe you lost your leg. In the book, it describes that the lady, like, the first thing she feels, she thinks she snagged something, but she feels, and she feels the bloody stump of her leg missing, and she says, it says, it describes, Benchley describes she feels The pulse of warm [00:46:30] blood pouring out of her leg and then the shark swallows her.

[00:46:33] It's like, so you're swallowed, you're alive, you're drowning, and you got a leg missing. I mean, what are you? Your life's not flashing before your eyes because you're like, this sucks. We're all pro land here, so dinosaurs, Jurassic Park. Phil's anti water, I'm anti water. Drew has a Jurassic Park shirt on. By the way, the emblem for Jurassic Park, you talked about the, the merchandising, how it was like one of those first in your life, it was one of those first big merchandise movies.

[00:46:54] Remember the lunchboxes, the backpacks, that symbol was everywhere. It was everywhere. There were flip flops with the Jurassic Park. [00:47:00] Yes, there were. Amazing. This is going to be a fun category. The CGI, now I do acknowledge there is practical effects, but Jurassic Park is known for the CGI, versus the practical effects of Jaws.

[00:47:12] And for those listening, if you don't know what that means, there is no CGI in Jaws. It's all physical, mechanical, engineered work, versus computerized work. Phil, we'll start with you. Still have to go Jurassic Park. Here is why. There is a moment in Jurassic Park. When the T Rex [00:47:30] has broken through the fence, and the two Jeeps are still on the track, and the very poorly timed children bust out a flashlight and start flashing it everywhere.

[00:47:41] And he beats the sh*t out of the Jeep because of that. And then, I think it's Jeff Goldblum grabs the flashlight to pull it away from the jeep. And there is a split second moment where he swipes the flashlight across the body of the T Rex. And it looks so good. Like, [00:48:00] it just, it looks so unbelievably convincing, even almost 30 years later.

[00:48:06] Like, I watched it with my wife, and we were sitting there, and both of us, at the same time, were like, Oh my gosh, that's terrifying. And it was just this, this moment where, I don't know if it was because it was a flashlight flashing across a robotic T Rex, or if they just nailed the lighting CGI in that situation, but man, the terror that was realized in that moment of this T Rex in the dark after it's destroyed the [00:48:30] Jeep, with the flashlight going across its body, it was, it was pure terror, and that scene alone is why Jurassic Park wins for me.

[00:48:37] Well said, Drew. It's great, I love this specific example. Uh, I'm gonna go more 30, 000 feet and say Jurassic Park because I feel like the practical effects at this point were pretty, uh, dialed in. It was pretty, that's, that was the height, the absolute peak of practical effects. Which is a lot of the T Rex, a lot of the smaller dinosaurs that you see.

[00:48:58] But the The [00:49:00] CGI where it was only 50, only 50 scenes of CGI and a typical now Transformers or Harry Potter, you know, you see like 2000, but in this there's only 50 frames of CGI, which is nothing when you think about it, but I feel like they squeezed so much juice out of those 50 frames of CGI that it's just Yeah.

[00:49:21] It's staggering. And especially when you look at Jaws, I mean, it's aged really well. But if you look at how the shooting process went, it was a total [00:49:30] disaster. And I think Spielberg's genius bailed them out, whereas he kind of leaned on Stan and the CGI crew to really Make it, uh, an epic, iconic, memorable film.

[00:49:43] It doesn't matter now, I mean, I'm going Jaws, and it doesn't matter, JP wins here, but, You know, with JP. JP. Oh, JP. John Paul. JP. John Paul versus Jaws. But I go Jaws here for a lot of reasons, and the reason is, is, If I'm going to the ocean [00:50:00] tomorrow, which, I love swimming in the ocean. When I go to the beach, I always say, Ah, I'm not going to swim.

[00:50:03] But the minute I see the ocean, I have to take my shirt off and run in. I just want to smoke cigars by the ocean. Well, that too. We'll get that. We'll We'll get there. We'll get to that. But, I like swimming a hundred yards out and swimming. I just love the ocean. But if I watched Jaws that day or the day before, I still don't want to swim.

[00:50:19] I know it's a fake shark, dammit. Like, I know that. And I've watched all the special features. I've seen this movie hundreds of times. I know it's a wooden shark. But when I see it, I still don't [00:50:30] want to go in the ocean. I don't think it's wooden. Oh, there's wooden there. Maybe not predominantly wood, that's because you're pro land, okay?

[00:50:38] But I A wooden shark? Whatever it is, it's made, it's material, okay? Compared to your, your computer generated shark, or your computer generated dinosaurs, okay? I still wouldn't want to swim the next day. It terrifies me, and I know it's a fake shark, but it still terrifies me, and I love what he does with it.

[00:50:56] And here's another piece of proof for me that Jaws wins this [00:51:00] category, even though you two picked Jurassic Park. I'm outweighed. It's fine. Let it go. Spilt. Let me finish my point. You can't hold it back anymore. Spielberg is 27. This shark is terrifying, even though it's really the lack of shark that scares you.

[00:51:13] When the shark's there, it's convincing. He uses it right. And there's four movies in this series. They get worse with each movie. I actually like Jaws 2. I don't love it, but I like it. A lot of people didn't. I thought it was still a good entry. It didn't live up to one. Because you'd already seen the shark, so you knew.

[00:51:26] They couldn't hide it any longer. But three 3 is a dumpster fire, [00:51:30] and Jaws 4 is an atrocity. It's a 0%, for a good reason. That's actually generous, if there was negative, Jaws 4 should get it. But, Steven Spielberg, 1970, is it 1970? 1975, does what he does, and then, as technology gets better, the sharks get worse.

[00:51:45] with each movie. I mean, it just gets worse and worse. There was something about the way Spielberg worked with that hunk of junk that made it effective, and it still scares me. And I just gotta give Spielberg props for that. That's a good point. But that's not to say that Jurassic Park's not amazing. You know, and I go back, and we talked [00:52:00] about this on the last podcast with Aliens, uh, verse T2, which is, what did James Cameron say about working with Stan Winston?

[00:52:05] It's not that the technology doesn't exist. Everyone has the same technology available to them. It's about how you use it, it's about context, it's about shadows, it's about shots. Even though it's CGI, you still have to consider the frame, the shot, the camera work with the humans. There's so much that goes into CGI that's not just the computer generated image, it's the actual production, and that's called directing.

[00:52:26] And so I do want to give Jurassic Park a nod, it's what Steven Spielberg accomplishes with [00:52:30] these dinosaurs. Because think about it, we have sharks today, we see them on TV, but we've never lived amongst dinosaurs. But when I see it, I get so excited because like, This is what dinosaurs were like. So even though Jaws wins, Jurassic Park is no walk in the park.

[00:52:42] Cause it is fantastic. Jaws by a slight edge, but you guys, JP is convincing here. I thought Jaws would come in swinging. We are at four to one right now. I don't like it. It's the right number. I don't like it. All right, next category. This is just straight up. Jaws versus the T Rex. Let's say the T Rex is [00:53:00] standing in water, or maybe Jaws, whatever, let your imaginations roll.

[00:53:04] Maybe Jaws grows legs. Use your imaginations here, but Drew, start us off. What if it's just freaking Jaws versus T Rex? Space. The great equalizer. Or space, yeah. Space shark. How can you not go T Rex? Thank you. I guess it's a tough question to ask. If you're in the water, if you're underwater, in, you know, 20 feet, then obviously the shark wins.

[00:53:23] If you're on the land, then obviously the This is a terrible category. It's f*cking fun, just f*cking go with it. You're [00:53:30] talking, you're talking about I was like ping ponging myself back and forth and then I'm like That's what you're supposed to do. Jaws in the land, or the T Rex in the water, or both of them in space or what if they exist in plasma?

[00:53:41] Should I go so you can hear my thinking? If Richard Dreyfuss had to wrestle Jeff Goldblum Here's where I go. I'll start off and I'll set the tone. Who's still here? The Megalodon was The predecessor to the Great White, and it was here, sharks were here when dinosaurs were here, who's still f*cking here?

[00:53:57] Yeah, but he was shielded by the water. We don't know that. Do we know [00:54:00] sharks were here back then? Yeah, we do know that. We don't even know We know that. Do we even know dinosaurs existed? Like, let's be real. It's true. I think they were space aliens made by Scientologists, but that's a totally different We'll get to that.

[00:54:09] Amazing. Well, you could make the counter case that sharks evolved, they already re evolved back to sharks since the Extinction level event of whatever struck the earth that killed dinosaurs. Yeah, the meteor, the flood, or whoever. The minnow that survived already evolved back to the [00:54:30] shark. I know, dinosaurs just couldn't hack it.

[00:54:31] They were, they were a lot of game to chase people around on land. Come down to water. Okay, stuff rusts down here. You drop a piece of metal down here, it rusts. Stuff dry rots on land. Mold, pollution, people drop in styrofoam. For all your C points, I have a land counterpoint. Try me. Okay, pro land. Pro land all day.

[00:54:50] Go ahead. I mean dude, I just think all I can see in my mind is like a shark going after a T Rex and the T Rex just Slapping the sh*t out of him with his head just [00:55:00] like, f*ck you, shark. Just beating the sh*t out of him with his head. But the shark is biting its legs. Like So here's the thing about this.

[00:55:05] Think about how water, you know when you get the waters off, you think you're going fast, but water slows your motion down. By the time the shark like jockeys its head or the the, the T-Rex jockeys, its head on the water. The shark's already biting its ass and his tail. Yeah, but dinosaurs have scales and like leather skin and stuff.

[00:55:21] Dude, done deal. This is so obvious. Stomp all over his head. And then piss on his corpse. This is obviously shark. I'm going Jaws, but that's true. Gotta go [00:55:30] JP, but, well, I already went. I'm going JP, but, uh, side note. A couple of numbers that were dropped in both movies. The Brachiosaurus, which is the long neck, 27 feet long neck?

[00:55:40] Yes. The shark, 25 feet long. So the shark is almost the length of the freaking Brachiosaurus neck. That's how big. So, I'm saying that as like a Kudos sharks, but I still go JP. However, does anything roar like that T Rex? Well, if you watch Jaws 4, the shark roars, which is why it's such a bad movie, but no.

[00:55:59] [00:56:00] Nothing. Fair enough. I I I'm going Jurassic Park just because I'm gonna fanboy this one and and mail it in and, uh This is getting ugly. Go ahead. This is what you might call a Landslide. Ohhhh! Well, I feel like I'm being waterboarded right now, because I, my whole intro, so for those listening I write this philosophical, beautiful intro to kick us off and I talk about how Jaws is the best movie of all time, 5 to 1 right now.

[00:56:28] Well you pick the [00:56:30] categories as well and you bias them towards JP. Gatorade. I'm pro water, okay? Not only does it quench your thirst better, but it tastes better too. These are all fun. This is a fun category. Best Spielberg. Which is Spielberg being the best Spielberg? Next. Next category. Draft Park for sure.

[00:56:50] Here. I'll go. I'm just f*ckin with you. When you think about Spielbergian cinema, just the magic of [00:57:00] Hollywood and blockbuster, Jaws was an accident, okay? Nobody set out to make Jaws on purpose. I was an accident. Yeah, we were both accidents. Jurassic Park, E. T., Close Encounters, I mean, the list goes Saving Private Ryan.

[00:57:15] When you think about Steven Spielberg, think of Massive. Blockbuster films AI. Nope, not AI So for that I see but I you can make a case for either I could sit here [00:57:30] and say that all I could make a Great case for Jaws 2. I think not just 2 but jaws as well also But yeah, I gotta go Jurassic Park. What was the question?

[00:57:41] Best Spielberg film. Best Spielberg. Best Spielberg being Spielberg. Ah, man, to me that's easy. Jurassic Park. Why? It stays on brand. It's, it stays on brand. Okay, all the rest of Spielberg's films are on brand with Jurassic Park, therefore Jurassic Park is in Spielberg's brand vertical. Jaws is [00:58:00] definitely departure from what makes Spielberg Spielberg.

[00:58:03] Is it a non Spielbergian film? No. It is very much Spielberg, but it's EARLY Spielberg. I mean, the earliest. I'm currently writing a textbook on Steven Spielberg that will never see the light of Well, tell me your thoughts on Duel, then, Mr. Academia. What now? I can tell you about Duel. The movie he made before Jaws.

[00:58:20] Duel is why he was drawn to Jaws, because it was very similar in format. It was a made for TV film. About, uh, it was about a truck [00:58:30] chasing a car or something. Yeah, it was a guy in a truck chasing a civilian in a little car. But you never really saw the truck or knew what the truck wanted. It was kind of like similar.

[00:58:37] I'm obviously homering for Jurassic Park right now. Like, hard. Big time. Big time. I should have really, uh, checked for bias on this. I'm Reddit upvoting myself on Jurassic Park. Now I see why Drew picked this matchup. I mean, I was gonna go Jaws here, but like, once again, it doesn't matter. But, I mean, the thing, he's 27.

[00:58:53] I mean I love, and here's the thing, this matches my personality. I'm a minimalist. Maybe if he was 37 it would have been a better movie. [00:59:00] Mmm. I'm just f*cking with you. I mean, I mean, if you watch every Jaws after, no one was ever able to match it. So, again, it doesn't matter, but I love, I can't believe what Spielberg accomplished with a real shark with a, with a physical shark, like not CGI.

[00:59:12] I just can't believe what he accomplished, the performances he got. I mean, I think every performance acting wise is better in Jaws. Like I think about matchup, every matchup you can think Quint versus Sam Neill, or you could take Roy Scheider versus Sam Neill. Everyone is better than Sam Neill in this movie.

[00:59:27] The kids getting eaten by the sharks are better [00:59:30] than Sam Neill in this movie. OK, that I agree with. The performances, however, you're discounting. I know that your whole thing drew is the imagination. It's beautiful. That was a beautiful spiel, but for this category, that's bullsh*t. That was a beautiful spiel, but for this category, it's bullsh*t.

[00:59:46] I'm fighting for Jaws here. Okay, the performances, you're forgetting about directing and scripting and no, I'm not forgetting about it. I'm taking into account. However. Quit this. Dinosaurs. No, okay, here's how I interpreted the question. Best Spielberg, [01:00:00] meaning like, what's the most on brand for Spielberg?

[01:00:02] Okay. Yes, that's what I thought too. That's how I heard the question. Otherwise, you should just say, what's the best movie? I'm just mad. It's just a different conversation. I'm just mad. And I hear you. We're going pretty hard for the park. Super hard. But if you're just saying what's the most Spielbergian film, it's Jurassic Park.

[01:00:18] It's actually the poster child for Spielbergian cinema. We're floating here at six to one. Dude, the T Rex is literally just bashing his head into the shark as we're sitting here. [01:00:30] You know, and I don't give it enough credit, but the T Rex is strong. I love Jaws, the T Rex is strong. He's got little stumpy arms, he can't pick things up off the ground, but he'll f*ck you up.

[01:00:39] Couldn't handle an asteroid, though. Let me, I'm gonna cut out, I'm gonna cut out best score. No! Are you kidding me? Two of the most iconic teams? Listen, all these categories are great. Cut off your own balls, Kyle! Let's storm. Best score. I'm gonna start. I'm gonna say Jaws. Okay? [01:01:00] Here's the reason. Remember how I went on this spiel about how it's adventure?

[01:01:05] Tracy Park has more notes. The end. Oh my god. Really? Ladies and gentlemen, I wish I would have known how biased Drew was when he picked this category. I totally thought he was all Jaws going into this. What's funny is you sh*t on Jurassic Park so much before you watched it. Did I? This is a coup. Yeah. This is a Oh, I gotta find it.

[01:01:24] This is a movie wars podcast coup. Jaws was yawn. Against the host. Jaws was meh. Here's why. Here's why Jaws [01:01:30] wins this. I love how the theme is used sparsely, okay? We all, the two note thing is probably the most legendary score ever, right? I agree. It's, it's so iconic. But it's actually sparse. The thing that sticks out to me is the way they match, and I'm a big music guy, I talked about this with Robocop.

[01:01:46] When they're chasing Jaws around in the water and that beautiful, skippy, I really, I call it skippy. That kind of Sailor like dancing theme they use when they're chasing the shark. I love that. I love how they use it to orchestrate that it's [01:02:00] adventure. So I think score Jaws, and it's beautiful. The magnificence of the overture, the Jurassic Park theme, whatever you want to call it, uh, put me in another place.

[01:02:10] It's the most memorable piece of music probably in film for me. However, the two notes in Jaws, the genius of those two notes, Not only became a cultural phenomenon, but you can't hear those two notes without thinking of sharks. Like that's the [01:02:30] most unbelievable accomplishment as a composer. Tell you what, I'm gonna Compose two notes in a sequence and pair it with some sort of visual and you're gonna think about that for the rest of your lives Amen as a freaking universe to that end is as brilliant as Williams work was in Jurassic Park I don't think he can beat himself And Jaws, so I go Jaws.

[01:02:51] Well said. Phil, it doesn't matter what you say, but Uh Ha ha ha! Dun daa, dun daa, da da daa, da [01:03:00] da dun daa! You're not even singing the most iconic thing, it's Da na na, dun daa, na na na Yeah, I'm probably singing the theme for a whole other movie. Um That was Wall Street. Yeah, man. What is that? Da na na, da da da na That is Jurassic Park.

[01:03:15] That is Jurassic Park. Yeah, it's the rolling credits, for sure. I, I'm with you guys on this one. It, there's an emotional aspect to the Jurassic Park theme that is undeniable. But if you're going with just, the Jurassic Park thing's iconic too, but if you're going with [01:03:30] iconic, like, doing the most with the least, two notes has never conveyed more terror than, Duh dun.

[01:03:37] Like, you could just do that, and everybody instantly knows Jaws. So, I would go Jaws, but by a hair. Here, here's the, the point that I'll make to close this out. If you see a picture of a dinosaur, or a, you know, a drawing, painting, dinosaur in a movie, whatever, you don't instantly bust out and, dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun [01:04:00] dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun But, if you see a shark, everybody, someone in the room will inevitably say, Duh nuh.

[01:04:09] Exactly. You can't get in a freaking pool with your kids without, you know, pretending to be a shark and saying, Duh nuh. Like, it's, it, yeah. And SNL used it for the land shark skit with Jeffy Chase, and the land shark, doo doo. They even used it for that, so. Well, Robert Shaw is turning in his grave. He's thankful that he's He wanted to skip that category, and it was Yeah, Robert Shaw is thankful from the grave [01:04:30] that it's now 2 to 6.

[01:04:31] He's It's divisible by 2. Reduce that fraction to 3. That's a good point. This is a great category. So, we all know billionaires, millionaires, one of the things they like to do, and drug dealers. I don't wanna I don't wanna Exclude drug dealers. Let's not leave out or avoid the drug dealers. You'd like to have exotic pets, right?

[01:04:47] Which one would make a better exotic pet? If you could put Jaws in a shark tank in your house, or have a T Rex, or have a Velociraptor, I mean, if you're a billionaire, and you're on the Movie Wars podcast, which animal are [01:05:00] you? gonna own. Well, being a billionaire myself, I, uh, I have a fish tank. Drew invented bullsh*t.

[01:05:08] And, uh. Billionaire sh*t. I gotta go, I'm gonna go Jaws on this one. Because I think a shark would be more, because sharks are such little b*tches, I think sharks would be easier to contain. Pfft. I don't like the little knock on the shark at the end. I'm kidding. Me either. Wanna go shark? I'm kidding. Sharks are not b*tches.

[01:05:24] But I think it'd be easier to contain than, say, a T Rex. If I'm a billionaire, I don't care about how easy it [01:05:30] is to can uh, contain. I'm going rarity, I'm going uniqueness, I'm going I've got something no one else can get. I'm going T Rex. Well, I'm going Jaws because I think it would be funny to prank people and pretend like you're gonna push them into your shark tank.

[01:05:45] I feel like it'd be funny to prank people that you're gonna push them into your T Rex's mouth. Okay, but let's say you have, here's the thing about Jurassic Park, you have so many dinosaurs to chew from. I mean, imagine if you had a Velociraptor, if that thing gets out. Oh, that's a problem. Think about in the movie how they don't bite you and eat you first, they scratch the sh*t out [01:06:00] of you first.

[01:06:00] And they like, literally torture you before they kill you. They cut you here. At least you could run from a shark. If it breaks out of the tank, it just flows out and eventually just stops moving. And stops breathing. But have we given it time to grow legs and to see what would happen then? How much time you got?

[01:06:14] Cause Yeah, I mean Exactly. You got a billion years on ya? We don't You've got money, you don't got time. Finally, Jaws is getting some I mean, there's not enough catego I mean, well, we can tie. This is a fun category. Quint vs. the dinosaurs. I mean, Quint is so grizzled. [01:06:30] In what way? I don't know, it's just Quint vs.

[01:06:32] the dinosaurs. Let your imagination run wild. Let the whiskey flow through your veins. I feel like Quint would take down the Velociraptor, unlike the hunter guy who was like, Good girl. Um, I feel like he'd be bested by the T Rex, because the T Rex is, is most similar to the shark in its viciousness, and sheer size, and just, you know, viciousness.

[01:06:53] Um, I, I think it would be, depending on the dinosaur he went up against, he'd, he'd be able to, to triumph. But, [01:07:00] uh, I think in the end, I'm not sure who would beat the dinosaurs except for a meteor. Yeah, meteor vs. Quint's kind of the subtext here. Oh, wow. Okay, um. Well, Quint would lose to a meteor too, right? I don't know about that.

[01:07:13] That's interesting. Yeah, we keep harping on the T Rex situation, but there were a lot of dinosaurs that weren't T Rexes. You know, and Quint was a student of the game. I feel like he, had he built a profession chasing dinosaurs, he could, uh I could see him taking down two or [01:07:30] three or twelve. So, I'll go Quint.

[01:07:32] Why not? Yeah, and something we're not thinking about is, even though we love these characters, let's look at this from a sports perspective. Quint was like a first round draft pick that went to a really bad team. You know what I mean? It's like he was the quarterback for, for, you know, Alabama and he goes to the Jaguars.

[01:07:46] Brody and Hooper, Hooper's a marine biologist, but he's not a shark hunter. And Brody is afraid of the water. He had a subpar offensive line. on this boat, and you could almost argue the reason that the freaking shark gets on board and eats him is because he had a [01:08:00] subpar crew. He couldn't do his process, and it's all about the process, right?

[01:08:04] I think if you get Quint alone or with a good crew on an island with sharks, or sorry, on an island with dinosaurs, I think he, like you said, I don't think he's killed a T Rex, but I think a couple of Velociraptors skulls go on his wall. I can see that. Yeah, so I'm going Quint. I'll go, I'll go Quint with you.

[01:08:20] At this point, this is sympathy points for Jaws. Sympathy points, indeed. I love this category. Best intro kill scene. Both of these movies start with a kill [01:08:30] scene from an unseen creature. I mean, Jaws. I mean, to me, it's Jaws. I mean, think about it. The intro scene is the most prolific movie poster of all time.

[01:08:38] Naked woman, Jaws wins. Jaws. Certainly the most memorable. Starts out with a campfire, and then you see all the couples fooling around and having fun. You're like, oh, this seems like a fun movie. Oh, they're so cute. Oh, they're skinny dipping. Oh, oh, oh, god, no, no! Yeah, I gotta go Jaws. Jaws. same. I mean, you can't, you can't beat that scene, [01:09:00] that sheer terror of watching that girl get thrashed around in the water like that.

[01:09:03] I mean, the, the Jurassic Park one's pretty rough too, where the guy's like, you know, getting the, uh, Velociraptor into the holding situation, just gets dragged in. And the, the impetus of Jurassic Park is Hammond attempting to Prove that is getting people to endorse his island because of that tragedy But the I mean both of those scenes kind of kick off what both of those movies are But the jaws scene is just more memorable and it's just [01:09:30] legendary So yeah jaws and from a legal perspective when you're working at jurassic park, you sign an nda, you know, you could get eaten They're not letting you work on their like.

[01:09:38] Oh, by the way, you You might get eaten. You know, you're signing, yeah, you're signing paperwork. Whereas with the lady at the beginning of Jaws, I mean, she's just skinny dipping. I mean, there's no precursor to that. I don't want to create drama here, but we have three questions left, and it is six to five all of a sudden.

[01:09:53] I don't want to get too crazy. In general, next category, just best kills, best deaths. I mean, we're going to, we're leaning [01:10:00] into horror here, because typically this is Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, but we got two creatures, or two sets of creatures that love to kill. What are the best deaths, best kills, which movie has them?

[01:10:08] Is this a different category than Tastiest? Yeah, it's best, cause Tastiest is Okay, I have a different answer for that. Okay, best death for me is got How Can You Not Go Quint? Yes. That was the most impactful. I'll tell you how you can not go Quint. Okay. Philosophorus Rex over here. Who doesn't Pro Land. Who doesn't remember The scene where the guy [01:10:30] gets eaten off the toilet.

[01:10:32] Okay, that was a good death. That death is so It's just the man When you're on the toilet, I would I would debate that you were in one of the most vulnerable positions you can be in as a human. You are unclean, you're sitting in a position where you're defenseless. And not only does that happen, I mean, he's not taking a sh*t obviously, but just in general, you're, you're sitting there, you're sh*tting, you're, you're defenseless.

[01:10:55] This guy is, is hiding on a toilet and gets eaten, [01:11:00] just bit by a, eaten by a T Rex. I mean, that, everyone talks about the toilet scene. In Jurassic Park, as one of the most memorable deaths, so, to me that trumps everything. I'm gonna stand by, before, sorry, before you jump in, I'm gonna stand by, uh, my, Quint. I think it's the most memorable, the best death.

[01:11:18] But, the most, uh, well rounded deaths, I'm gonna say Jurassic Park, because they killed the smoker, the fat guy, and the lawyer. And those are three villains everybody hates. That's the, and that's the [01:11:30] triad I can go to Outback without somebody smoking. Yeah. But you want to die doing what you love. I mean And taking a sh*t.

[01:11:36] Die, die and taking a sh*t is, that's nirvana to me. But I go Jaws, and here's the reason. We got a, we got a shark here that doesn't make its first full appearance till an hour and twenty one. But think about the impact that deaths make. Knowing that you haven't seen the shark, you're just seeing what it's doing.

[01:11:52] What an impact. And it toys with its food. The, the, it just seems to me that the shark, the, sorry, the dinosaurs are a little lazy. They kind of act on their [01:12:00] Darwinian instincts too much. The shark has fun. The shark is like Hannibal Lecter. It toys with its food. Makes it feel at first. It's not gonna eat you right away.

[01:12:08] I think it's more creative. This goes Jaws. And it ate Quentin. Quentin's like, you know, eating a bag of nails. So. I hate to say it, but we're tied here. This, this was lopsided for a minute. We got two categories here. Who's gonna pull this out? It could tie. Have you ever tied before? No. We haven't. Have you ever done even number of categories?

[01:12:26] I don't think so. That was an oversight. Alright, here we [01:12:30] go. You gotta cut one of them. Yeah, this might be a little miracle in the end. So this is Drew's favorite category. Which, which would be a better series? TV series or a better episodic? Drew, I'll let you kick off. I think you have to go Jurassic Park, because I want to know more about the Hammond Foundation that happens after this.

[01:12:48] I want to know more about what happens with the park. I want to know, there's just, uh, you can follow the kids paths. There's all a variety of directions you could take it. And I think the success [01:13:00] of the follow up film speaks to the serial viability, whereas Jaws 2 was like, eh, three and four were jokes.

[01:13:10] With Jurassic Park, at least, you know, Lost World was not good. Three was okay, but then Jurassic World was a pretty awesome movie. I loved Jurassic World. Fallen Kingdom was not as good, but still a solid movie. And I think the whole world is excited about the third Jurassic World film, so I gotta go [01:13:30] Jurassic Park.

[01:13:30] Phil. Jurassic Park for a lot of the same reasons, and also because with Jurassic Park, the star is the dinosaurs. And with that, you've got the resurrection campaign with all the science behind it, and I could see Jurassic Park The first movie told a really complex story in a relatively short amount of time.

[01:13:48] But you could have taken that first movie and extrapolated it out over an entire season of television shows and still had something engaging and intriguing to watch. Like, the scientists who are completely oblivious to [01:14:00] this situation digging up fossils versus the science of Jurassic Park going into the depths of creating.

[01:14:06] You know, putting these DNA strands together and creating these creatures and building the park and, and the hype and the buildup around that to the final disaster of Jurassic Park. Like, just that movie alone could have been made into a series, but just the intrigue of the dinosaurs and the science alone to me wins.

[01:14:21] Like, Jaws was an incredible film, but to me it wraps up the whole story in one go. Like, I was satisfied. Jurassic Park, I constantly [01:14:30] want to know more. I agree with that, and as much as I want to go Jaws and give Jaws the win because it's my, it's my go to, the fact is that sharks exist. I mean, there's nothing nefarious about that.

[01:14:40] Wait, they do? They do. It's weird, I know. Unbelievable. Let it set in. I know you're pro land, but the whole premise of Jurassic Park is nefarious. I mean, they breed these sharks out of old amber. Mosquito DNA. I mean, that is a premise in and of itself that could just keep giving to you. It can keep, like, maybe there's behind the scenes scientists, maybe there's governments, maybe there's just so [01:15:00] much that can unfold.

[01:15:01] And like you said, Jaws 1 is so self contained. You feel like at the end, like, we took care of the one rogue shark. We still have other sharks out there, but we're not worried about them because we took care of the one real bad one, so. I'm right, I'm right with you on that. Alright, so we have one question left and Jurassic Park has edged out a lead here.

[01:15:18] Which is the, so this is a tough question and it takes a little brain gymnastics, but which film sets up the best franchise? You gotta try to exclude, and I'll go ahead and start because this is [01:15:30] difficult for me. It is so disappointing, I liked Jaws 2, but I didn't love it. Jaws 3 is a disaster, Jaws 4 is hilariously horrible.

[01:15:37] I, I gotta go Jurassic Park on this, even though I'm a, I'm a Jaws fanboy. Again, for the same reason that Jurassic Park would make a great series, you get so much material with the scientific, scientific element of Jurassic Park. You can develop more dinosaurs, you know, there's this whole weird corporate element of keeping the park open.

[01:15:55] I mean, there's just a lot of storylines. And I think You can't help but exclude [01:16:00] or include what happened to the Jaws franchise. They just never captured what they captured the first time. It was truly, and you said this earlier, there was a lot of luck involved. They captured lightning in a bottle. With Jurassic Park, it seems like there's more inventive storytelling that just kept going with those films.

[01:16:14] I think the best start, it's, like I said, it's hard to exclude the follow ups. I think Jurassic Park has the best start to a franchise. Yeah, I agree for all the same reasons that I just said and you just said. But I think it's interesting to note that nobody in almost 50 [01:16:30] years has tried to remake Jaws, which I feel like is telling, because most classics have been, I mean you got Ghostbusters, you got Robocop, everybody's remaking the 80s classics, the 70s classics, like, so I think everybody's kind of scared to touch Jaws, because Jaws is Jaws, it's like remaking Godfather, you just There's some things that are just sacred and in the film, hallows, you know, the, the, it, yeah.

[01:16:55] Oh, and there have been attempts, they have tried. I mean, there have been executives and, and [01:17:00] believe me, it's been thrown against the wall hundreds of times. I mean, I read about it all the time. I'm sure, yeah. They've tried, but Cause the cash grab, but they could not get the creatives to put their name on that.

[01:17:08] Because you can't do a CGI Jaws. It would be sacrilege. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I'm, I feel like I mostly answered this already, but yeah. Jurassic Park, because it did go on to be the better franchise and because there is just inherently more detail and intrigue involved in that series. With, you know, the scientists, the dinosaurs, the, uh, the [01:17:30] park itself, the Hammond Foundation, the paleontologists, whereas Jaws, there's no and here's the thing, there's nothing wrong with a story being cohesive in the capsule of one movie.

[01:17:40] There's nothing wrong with that. Right. To me, that's a great story, it's great storytelling, and, and Jaws is extremely satisfying in and of itself. And But Jurassic Park kind of isn't, because you just constantly want to know more, because dinosaurs are inherently intriguing. And Jurassic Park sets it up in such a way that you just want to know more.

[01:17:58] So yeah, easy, Jurassic Park. I am [01:18:00] wearing a Jurassic Park t shirt. It came out in 1993, I was five years old. And while I will never forget when I watched Jurassic Park for the first time. I also will never forget the time that I first saw Jaws. Full disclosure, I was at the mall today picking out a suit for a wedding that I have to go to this weekend.

[01:18:18] I visited three different stores looking for a Jaws t shirt. All three stores said we carry them, but we can't keep them in stock. That's the cultural phenomenon that is Jaws. The fact that I could go to Target [01:18:30] and pick up the shirt that I'm wearing right here, Jurassic Park. speaks to the cultural phenomenon that is Jurassic Park.

[01:18:36] So, that in and of itself speaks to just the massive nature of these movies. Kids got into marine biology because of Jaws. Kids got into paleontology because of Dinosaurs. I mean, these two movies changed the game. Jaws was the first accidental blockbuster. They stumbled into it, but merch and Everybody had lunchboxes and things spilled out of this film that nobody saw coming [01:19:00] Jurassic Park I would argue is the first intentional blockbuster I don't think you have Jurassic Park without Jaws.

[01:19:06] I don't know what I'm so I've never been so torn We've only done four matchups, but I'm so torn on these two as a 90s kid I so desperately want to say Jurassic Park is what I'm going with but I As a storyteller, and someone who just loves to observe film for what it is, I think I have to go Jaws. Well said.

[01:19:28] Phil, what do you think? I mean, [01:19:30] it's obvious, but tell us why. As far as favorite movie? I think, this one's complicated for me, um, because I love different movies for different reasons. If I want to relax and watch a movie that I know I'm going to just thoroughly enjoy from top to bottom, that's going to be Jurassic Park.

[01:19:46] If I want to watch a film that really accurately depicts humanity during a really terrible time, that's Jaws. They just bring different things to the table, and like Drew said, there is just It's, [01:20:00] it's pitting one child versus another. You can't pick a favorite. Um, they're, they both excel at different things.

[01:20:06] Like, Jaws has a depth and a nuance to the storytelling that is hard to debate or replicate or best with one thing or another, whereas Jurassic Park has just a a weight and an excellence and a wow factor to it that is hard to replicate because since then who else has made a movie that intriguing about dinosaurs?

[01:20:29] But the same could be said [01:20:30] about Jaws. Who's made a movie that intriguing about sharks? Good point. So You're pinning Favorite Child versus Most Accomplished Child, and Favorite Child for me would be Jurassic Park. Most Accomplished would be Jaws. I, they're both incredible movies. I don't even know. Both of you so well said, and I love how you framed that because, and I didn't think about that, but every shark movie that's been made since Jaws is annoying.

[01:20:51] And, and, I watched the Meg, and I Sharknado. Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's supposed to be annoying. These shark movies, like, with the CGI, I don't know what it is, but I, [01:21:00] I want to, like, someone to create one, but I watched the Meg thinking, because I was interested, because the Meg is a historic shark, right?

[01:21:05] That was the prehistoric shark, and the reason they went extinct is because they literally couldn't eat enough. Like, they could eat a school bus and still be hungry. That's what scientists say. Jaws, to me, the fact that it was so accidental, like Drew said, it was, it wasn't supposed to be a blockbuster. It was supposed to fail.

[01:21:19] Not only did they want to fire Steven Spielberg, he wanted to quit. You know, it was miserable filming that film, but how did we get the movie we got that changed cinema? And I remember as a kid, watching [01:21:30] Jaws and not wanting to take a bath. A BATH! I was like, I can't take a bath now. What if there's a shark in the bath?

[01:21:35] Like, I know there's not a shark in the bath, but that movie still, like I said earlier, if I watch that before I go to the beach, that's a dangerous move because I might not swim that next day. And like you said, they are both amazing films. But Jaws, to me, it still impacts me. Quince Indianapolis speech.

[01:21:51] How, how many speeches in movies do you remember like that? It's so memorable and we've seen so many great actors, so many great script writers come through since then, but that one [01:22:00] still is top five to me. Just watching him talk about that in the bottom of that boat. I'd go Jaws, but like you both said, this is a tight race.

[01:22:06] Steven Spielberg is the master of adventure. Uh, this was a tight war card. It was 8 to 6. It was scary there for a minute. I mean, even though Jaws lost, I I kinda was worried there for a minute that Jaws was gonna lose and only have one point, but Cause I said it was the greatest film of all time, but Usually we, we go into what we, you know, which movie we just personally prefer, but I think it's pretty obvious.

[01:22:28] Which movies we all personally prefer, [01:22:30] but I do want to give a shout out to Steven Spielberg. Like I said in my, my intro, to create the perfect adventure movie is not easy. And I think we're seeing that today. It's so hard just to give us a movie where we just feel like we're taking on a ride. Without the, you know, the, the political nuance, the philosophical nuance.

[01:22:45] Spielberg, this is Spielberg at his best, these two films. And even though I prefer Jaws, I recognize that Jurassic Park is such an accomplishment. And you got Stan Winston doing his thing. You just have so much working right. I don't like. Sam Neill, I prefer Roy Scheider and Robert Shaw, but these two [01:23:00] films are great adventure films and I love that they're in the repertoire.

[01:23:02] I can go back to them when I just want to be taken on a ride and these two movies do that. So, uh, what a great war score here. This is pure fun. Everyone was on top of the game. Uh, thank you for joining us, everyone. And uh, this is Kyle, Drew and Phil signing off and uh, we'll see you in episode five. Drew Phil and I want to thank you for hanging out with us on the movie wars podcast.

[01:23:22] If you want to hang out with us until the next episode drops, find us on Instagram and. movie wars podcast. If you really [01:23:30] love us and want to support us financially, we would love you back for contributing to us on Patreon, not only supports us financially, but it gets you access to private content that's not available to everyone.

[01:23:39] Thank you again for hanging out with Drew, Phil, and I, we love you. Have a great [01:24:00] week.