People at work were crying quite easily, men and women, and they were not crying just when there were some problems, but they were crying when they were happy.

To me, that was so strange.

I was used to a working environment where emotion didn't have much space.

Why you wouldn't accept a person to cry because they want to express emotion.

You remember the first time someone cried in your office?

It was a very intimate moment actually, because when I said, what's happening?

The person just said, no, I'm so happy.

I just feel this way.

A very authentic, genuine moment of truth between two people.

When a colleague of yours feels that he or she can be themselves, it's a thing to be grateful of.

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Here's Ben.

Hey everybody.

Welcome back to you got it.

Lead the Team.

A really special one coming your way today with Yulka Vila, who is the global Chief Marketing Officer over at Campari Group.

Yes, I mean that Campari, the Campari Group is a major, major player in the global spirits industry with a portfolio of over 50 premium and super premium brands, including Aperol, Campari, of course, Sky, Grand Marnier, Espalone, Courbassier, Wild Turkey and Appleton Estate.

She's also served as a senior leader in her past at L'Oreal Italia and the Heineken Group.

She prefers to be called a brand doctor or brand coach as each brand she believes has a treasure inside.

I just love that.

And her task is to ultimately make it show and make it glow.

She's worked across Europe, South America and North America and is very, very much so deeply passionate about cross cultural work and leadership.

Yulka, welcome to lead the team.

Hi Ben.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm very excited.

Wow.

Reading those brands.

I mean, your background's incredible.

You're global cmo.

You grew up in Italy.

In my case, I think that Italy gave me a lot of passion for what I do.

I mean, Italian people sometimes can transmit and convey a lot of passion.

They feel for something.

But I also believe that operating outside Italy was something that added a lot to the leader I am today.

When I left the first time, Italy for Brazil, for instance, I had really to put under discussion my style and what I believed was the right way to be a leader.

And for me, it was a big moment of truth, a big moment of evolution and transformation.

When you belong to a culture, you think to understand people.

When you change the culture you operate in, I mean, you have to unlearn, to learn, to learn again.

So that's, for me extremely important.

You said at the beginning that I love to operate in cross cultural environments.

That's very, very true.

And I like that because they, they put you on a constant pressure to transform yourself.

Because even if you are a certain leader, you have to understand that the audience you have that is probably operating according to a different culture than you, different habits, different behaviors, and you can't use yours to understand theirs.

And that's, I think it's a very healthy tension that calls for humbleness, curiosity, openness, and that is, that has been at the basis of my mantra, which is really about listening to people, observing people, learning from them.

So, and not a lot of leaders probably aren't.

Some are not as excited to go from their country to another country and they have to be successful.

Going from Italy to Brazil, oh my gosh, that's a big leap.

So when did you make, when in your time period or when's the time where you realized like, hey, I kind of like this cross cultural work or I can go be successful in another country.

Was there a moment or a situation that helped you have that recognition or maybe even the opposite, where maybe you had an unexpected twist or stumble along the way?

Becoming a cross cultural leader.

Well, operating in a cross cultural environment is not easy at all.

You have definitely many moments of failure based on the belief you arrived with and that you have to put under discussion.

So it's anything but easy.

But if you embrace the fact that you have to change to succeed, to understand people, and to be understood by people, I think is also the most, one of the most fulfilling experience you can have as a professional first and as a leader second.

I think that I really savored it when I was in Brazil.

A beautiful place, a beautiful country with a lot of challenges, very different from Europe safety was definitely one of the biggest differences I had to learn tackle with.

But at the same time it was a life changing experience because I was there, I was alone.

I wanted really to understand the culture.

I never spent time, very little time with fellow experts.

I wanted to understand as much as I could about that, that, that country, that population, that consumer.

And after that I went back to Milan and I was different, a different leader, a different professional.

And at that point, after a few years there, I was ready for the big jump.

Moving to the US And I always say Brazil stole my heart and us, I think stole my or conquer my mind because there's a completely different way of operating than in Europe and definitely also in Brazil.

Wow.

Yeah, I'm sure that expanded your horizons, the leader so much.

It's not just working with people in those areas, actually living there and being there.

And I appreciate your perspective in Brazil.

I didn't go to Brazil just to hang out with expats, which you could have done, but instead you were with the people and wanted to really understand.

Were there any funny moments when you came in, like you, like, I don't know where, like you, you move from Italy to Brazil.

There must have been a couple moments where you're like, oh man, I thought this.

But this challenged my.

Yeah, I mean, well, I have to tell you that I still remember the night I was landing in Brazil and I was looking from the airplane, the intricacy of lights of this city of millions of people, and I said, what did they do?

So when I was driving myself, many people, many experts in Brazil don't drive themselves.

And I remember I got lost in a favela and I was so scared because, not just because I got lost there, but because I didn't know how to get home again.

But I also believe that these are experiences that test your nerves.

And yeah, now I can talk about the experience with a smile.

And they are part of my, they are part of my background.

But yes, a lot of funny moments, especially linked to language because when I moved to Brazil, I couldn't speak a word apart from bongia Boatarji.

And but I was very, very bold.

And so I really, I really tried to do my best with the new language, but I said a lot of stupid stuff in the wrong moment, believing that it was the right word and most of all the right pronunciation.

And it was definitely not.

So I was thinking I was saying something and I was saying something else, creating embarrassing situations.

So yeah, I did that as well.

There are some common linkages between Italian, Spanish and Portuguese and French.

But to me, it becomes a lot more difficult when it's speaking versus the written language.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I.

That was my conviction, but I wasn't always right.

So with confidence.

Yeah.

So, so, so cool.

I remember I'm fluent in Spanish, and I used to go down to the neck of the woods and I would often speak Spanish to them and they would speak Portuguese back.

And I always felt like they understood my Spanish, but they would speak back to me in Portuguese.

I'm like, oh, Lord.

Yeah.

They used to call Portignol, which is a blend of Portuguese and Spanish.

I.

I remember also with the.

With Argentinian colleagues, I was speaking in Portuguese and they were answering in Spanish.

And we believed that we could understand each other.

We just believe it.

Maybe you have enough patience with each other to understand.

Yeah.

So building the next question here.

You're known, very well known for your approach to.

I'll say empathetic.

Right.

Empathetic leadership.

When.

What exactly is empathetic leadership?

And when's a moment that it was helpful for you?

I think that empathetic leadership is based very much on listening people.

Listening people, and try to understand what.

What they are trying to say, what.

What they are giving, what they are experiencing.

Which is also something that I learned in Brazil, actually, because I was coming from Italy, which is not the most progressive and advanced country in the world when it comes to leadership.

And one of the things that really surprised me the most while in Brazil was that the people at work were crying quite easily, in my opinion, men and women.

And they were not crying just when there were some problems, personal or professional, but they were crying when they were happy, men and women.

And to me, that was so strange.

I was used to a working environment where emotions were not.

Where emotions didn't have much space.

And I learned in Brazil that you would accept that a person loses his or her temper.

Right.

Sometimes.

So why you wouldn't accept person to cry because you are so happy, because they feel emotions, because they want to express emotion.

I believe that there I learned also the importance of respecting both the parts of an individual, the female, the male, and the female part of the individual, which, again, in my opinion, also are important parts feeding empathy.

At the end of the day, what I think is that people wants to be listened, considered.

They want to be seen.

Yeah.

And they want to be seen in their entirety.

So I think.

I think most probably this was a thing that enhanced some aptitude that I had already myself.

But I really realized that human beings are Complex.

And they should be accepted in this complexity.

Accepted, but also embraced in a way.

I mean, it's not that at work you are a person.

At home you are another person.

It's a mix of many things.

So empathy is important because you don't have to deal with robots.

You have to deal with people that, by the way, happen to be managers.

It's not the way around the other way around.

Now, you said you were surprised when you got to Brazil and people were crying at the office.

Sometimes happy tears.

Do you remember the first time someone cried in your office in Brazil?

And what was that experience like?

It was a moment of.

A very intimate moment, actually, because when I said, what's happening?

Did I say something wrong to you?

And the person just said, no, I'm so happy.

I just feel this way.

And yeah, an intimate moment to me, a very authentic, genuine moment of truth between two people.

So it's cry back.

Or were you so shocked you're like.

My God, No, I didn't cry back.

And I don't think I was shocked.

I was surprised, but also grateful because when a colleague of yours, a person reporting to you, feels that he or she can be themselves, it's a thing to be grateful of, I believe.

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That's cool.

Yeah.

You created that environment that safety sounds like fairly early on in your time there.

So that.

Yeah, very cool story there.

You also believe in the power and responsibility that leaders have to help talent flourish.

What is the responsibility that they have?

Well, it's a responsibility.

It's also a sort of honor that the leader.

A leader, as I believe in the sense that we work with people and each of us has talents and talents that not necessarily we see in ourselves.

There are talents that other people can see in us.

And I think that part of managing people is also helping them see what they don't see yet.

Getting familiar with a specific talent and decide if they want to make it grow, because then it's a personal choice.

I can see something in you that to me, is powerful, but you have to be the one choosing to make it flourish.

I mean, I think I have a duty to show you what I see, but I shouldn't impose you to go in that direction.

I mean, I've been working in marketing all my life and in many situation I saw people really wanting to work in marketing and they were not marketers.

They were not.

And most probably they wouldn't have become marketers.

And in some cases I said, you are a great professional in these other fields.

Why you don't embrace that instead of trying to be a B level marketer who told you that this is, this is better?

And then they did.

In some cases they follow my advice.

In some other cases they really pushed hard in the, in the direction of marketing anyway.

I mean sometimes they listen to you, sometimes not.

But I think it's a, it's your duty to try to see, to show what you see and to explain what you see.

Yeah, really good point there.

So the power and the responsibility is truly show them the possibilities and show them the potential vision for their career.

Yeah, they've got to make that choice.

Ultimately, I think, I think it's a great thing for leaders to walk away from, from this episode to say, hey, how are you communicating the possibilities that you see for your people and you?

And a lot of times it's transparent, like the things they're really good at, they may not know that they're good at it because they believe everybody else in the world can do what they do that easily.

And a lot of times they've got natural talent that makes it easy, but they don't realize it's special.

And I think leaders can be a really great mirror for them to reflect that possibility back.

Yeah.

So good.

Well, when is a, a time you had an unexpected twist or failure in your career and had to lead to your success or growth on down the road?

It happened, I would say, in the middle of my career so far.

I was asked, I was expecting a promotion and I was really in the belief that I would be assigned a specific job.

And yes, I got a promotion, but on a, on a challenge, on a brand that I really didn't want.

And I remember that at that time I just thought, okay, you believe that I'm not great enough to take the job, number one, let's say, and you give me the number two, fine, I will demonstrate what's my value.

And so I did.

And it was so powerful, so self motivating in, in a way.

And then in a, in another situation I, I was asked to do a horizontal move that I didn't want to do.

And I did it anyway.

And it was very painful for me.

But I find myself in an environment that was much more positive and favorable to my skills.

And it was beautiful, really beautiful.

I was appreciated.

I could bring value.

So sometimes what I learned from couple of experiences.

Never give up.

Never give up.

I mean, if you can't shine in one position, give yourself the possibility to shine in another one.

It's never end.

It's it.

It never ends.

In a way, yes.

Failure is just a moment in a continuum of time.

And and also the other thing that I learned is sometime we insist in trying to have success in one position and for some reason or a combination of reasons, this is not possible.

Don't get stuck.

Move on.

Move on.

Moving is very important.

The moment of stagnation.

A negative, A negative for your person, for your mental state.

It's like it's a sort of experience is finished and you have just to move on and embrace the need to move on.

And when you say move on, do you mean like, like give me an example of moving on in that situation.

Well, an example of moving on is sometimes taking a position that you don't think is what you deserve or is not all you can really do, but you give yourself the opportunity to really showcase your value.

Sometimes a company may ask you to take a job because they undervalue and maybe they don't expect much coming from you in that position and you surprise them.

So you have also to find opportunities or to transform a situation into an opportunity.

Yeah.

And the movement, the meaning of the movement is this very.

I think it's very sage advice because it's the.

You got to find the opportunity in the situation you have.

And when you have a disappointment of not getting a specific role or specific deal done, you got to move on and then make the most of the opportunities you do have.

And it's so easy to get caught up in just ruminating and thinking about what you didn't get.

But that sucks the energy away from the opportunities that you have in front of you.

It's a really good reminder.

This has been a fun, fun episode.

I mean, I just got to ask you, what's it like being the CMO of so many epic and well known brands?

Well, it's a roller coaster in a way because we are present in so many different categories with so many different consumers and we go from the imperative moment where we have been we were born to more indulgent and winding down moment with Whiskey Rumors or more energetic one with Tequila.

So it's it's, it's a lot of fun.

There's never at that moment.

I bet.

And so I gotta ask you, what's a misconception, a misconception that people have perhaps about the spirits industry or leaving a well known brand?

I think well known brand most probably took many, many years to get to, to that position.

I think that the job is never completely done.

You think that there will no brand will stay like these forever?

It's, I don't think it's, it's this way.

There's first, there's always new consumers to conquer.

And on the, on the other side, your, your current consumers are all also very demanding.

They are supportive but you have to keep them engaged, happy, satisfied with what you have to offer.

So again, but I don't think this is just for the spirits industry.

I think that is, can be applied to many, many different, different well known and established brands.

So working for Campari and working at a well known spirits company is not just a constant party.

No, that's more, that's for sure.

Of course the product is super important and we have sessions where we taste liquids, but they are very specific moment of the day.

And it's not about drinking.

Drinking a lot is about really savoring in very, very small quantity.

But yes, we have also parties time to time.

Yeah.

Because I suspect when somebody comes to work at Campari, they're thinking, hey, this is going to be a blast.

But there's a lot of hard work that goes into these brands.

Obviously, like you said, you all have established a lot of your brands have been around a long time.

And my, my thought is it takes a lot to keep that train going.

Even if there's a, even if it's a really established global brand.

Like, I mean, come on.

Campari.

Absolutely.

Brown Marnier.

My gosh.

All right, so starting to dive into your leadership because people are hearing this, you're clearly a global leader, you've worked at iconic brands and you call yourself a brand doctor, but what's a brand doctor?

I mean people working in brand management tend to call themselves brand experts or brand strategists.

I guess I'm one of them.

At the same time, sometimes you have to work on a brand that has issues, problems, some dust that is not able to recruit consumers anymore, that is losing consumer.

So it's really about going back to basics, understand what's the strength of this brand, of what, what the strength used to be and how these strengths can still shine with modern consumers.

So it's a little bit like A doctor, in a way, a doctor or a coach is not really.

It's not really about just imposing your view is understanding what the brand has to.

To give what are the values of the brand and then transform this in modern language.

Yeah, it's interesting.

So I have some friends that work in the spirits industry.

And, you know, I'm 49.

I know all these brands very well, but they have concerns about younger consumers, like in their 20s and their 30s, because they relate to spirits in a different way than, say, Gen X does.

What are you.

And.

And by the way, y'all, we're going to get to Yulka's leadership in a second.

But there's so much going on with brand.

I.

I got.

I gotta ask generationally, how are you translating these brands?

A lot of these are more, I'll say, like classic brands.

They're iconic.

And how do you.

How are you making.

Sure.

Like a Grand Marnier Campari.

These.

These incredible more iconic brands are reaching the younger demographic.

When it comes to our brands, there are some aspects to be.

To be considered.

First of all, we put a lot of attention on the product itself, right?

Because it's all about how you drink a brand substantially.

Right.

So that's a big moment of truth with consumers of any age, of any legal age, of course.

So trying it for the first time.

You try for the first time is the moment of the truth is so important.

That's why for us, for instance, education on how to prepare a specific cocktail is so important.

Think about the brand you mentioned, Aperol.

Over the last 20 years, it has been all about education, education to trade, about how to prepare the correct Aperol spritz, but also education to consumers that started preparing the cocktail for themselves at home, or we're asking for the right server at the bar, so.

Or also Campari with a very peculiar bittersweet taste.

The first time you drink Campari is very important because if you don't drink it in the correct way, the bittersweetness can be difficult to understand the first sip.

In a way, that's why it's all about how we offer and serve our product on one side, and on the other side is very much about the experiences that we create to resonate with a certain target.

Right?

So a brand can appeal to very different demographics at the same time, depending on the combination of the drinking strategy and the kind of experience that is designed for that specific delegate.

I love it.

And this goes for any brand in the world, right?

How are people first going to take that first and then Experience.

And they could, and they could go in and say, hey, yeah, I tried Grand Marnier with this, with this cocktail combination.

And at that moment I really had a good experience.

And then I'm going to order that again and again and again.

Or they could say, maybe the, like, the, like mixing Campari wasn't a good experience because the, the combination or the mix was not right.

And then they don't try it again for another five years.

I really, really like that.

Now.

That's why discipline in education is fundamental.

And when it comes to education, when you start investing in education, you don't know when it will be done.

Probably never.

So for executives listening or just leaders at all level, they're going to go out to happy hour.

What should they order?

Like, what is it?

What do you, what do you think exudes, like lead?

The team mindset when you order a cocktail with one of.

When it comes to spirits is always about the image, the choice is given about yourself, but also the emotional benefit, how the cocktail, how the brand is making you feel.

So it depends very much.

I mean, I bounce the question back to you.

Okay.

Oh, I love, I love it.

All right, so something that would be a great conversation starter.

And they'll say, well, what are you drinking?

We'll say, well, I'm drinking this and I heard about it.

You know, I'll lead.

The team has an interesting story behind it, but also it's like a cut.

It exudes confidence.

Confidence.

Confidence and builds curiosity and someone to ask.

So you have sort of a nice conversation and where that person who's drinking the cocktail is educating the person with them.

And then that person goes, goes away and says, yeah, I was having drinks with Ben.

He ordered this.

He got this for me too.

And I really liked it.

That's.

That's it.

It's.

It's.

What you drink is the shape of the glass you have in your hand, the color of the drink that create curiosity or is saying something about you.

Maybe it's right, maybe it's wrong, but definitely can sparkle a conversation.

So there's more.

Okay.

When I go out, I mean, when I go out, I generally, I ask for a Campari spritz because I like the, the bitter sweet taste of it.

And, and I love the color.

Red is one of my favorite colors.

So the combination of the two things wins on me.

So that's where we should start then, as lead the team.

The Campari spritz.

All right, y'all try that away from Yulka and say, hey, the CMO Campari says start with a Campari spritz.

That's a very legal.

That's my choice.

All right, Any others?

Any other Plan B or Cs in case they don't have Campari?

They are not Plan B or plan C.

I mean, given the time of the year, a very nice Margarita with Aspalon is also very much welcome.

Or also a gram margarita with the dash of grammar.

I think yesterday was Halloween, a lot of day of the death celebration.

So it's also a very nice choice to have.

All right, y'all, Campari spritz Margarita with Espalone.

Margarita Espalone and a little Grand Marnier.

I've had that combination and.

Oh, yes, and I have some Espolone in my.

In my kitchen, so there you go.

But I think y'all would agree we took advantage of this awesome conversation we did have when we got connected.

And it's almost apparel spritz time or Campari spritz time?

I think so.

I mean, I think.

What are your.

What's your parting message for our listeners?

And you can take it any direction you'd like.

Well, I would say the career is a marathon.

It's not a sprint.

Embrace change and give yourself the opportunity to learn new things and to learn new things, especially about yourself.

That sense of wonder that sometimes when we keep on a specific track, we forget in a way.

So I really believe in movement, as Ben, you might have understood by now.

So keep going.

Just keep going, keep going.

And tonight, wherever you are, and if you're of age, definitely try some Campari.

But get it in the right combination.

Go to the Campari website.

You have the best formulas for cocktails, I'm assuming over there somewhere, and give them a shot.

Yolka, thank you for coming on and lead the team.

Thank you so much.

And cheers.

Cheers.

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