Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world become more

effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.

00:00:07,020 --> 00:00:09,782

My name is George Binoka and I'm your host today.

00:00:09,782 --> 00:00:15,176

And with me is Tony Mendez and Tony's a dear friend of mine, a brother in Christ.

00:00:15,176 --> 00:00:18,127

And I've had the privilege of baptizing Tony.

00:00:18,127 --> 00:00:25,851

And so I just asked him onto the podcast today because we want to encourage you guys as

our listeners, we know that you're the laborers going out into the harvest.

00:00:25,851 --> 00:00:29,224

and trying to reach people with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

00:00:29,224 --> 00:00:32,487

And I think Tony's story is gonna be really encouraging to you guys today.

00:00:32,487 --> 00:00:40,133

It's a fascinating one and I think he has a lot to share that's gonna be helpful to

Christians all over the world on this topic.

00:00:40,133 --> 00:00:46,529

So Tony brother, I've known you now for a year and we've eaten a lot of food together.

00:00:46,529 --> 00:00:47,840

Definitely.

00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:53,245

It's one of the common themes of our life and something you and I share a love for.

00:00:53,245 --> 00:00:55,227

and you have an incredible story.

00:00:55,227 --> 00:00:58,079

I don't know where you want to start in your journey.

00:00:58,079 --> 00:01:00,268

but wherever you want to start us off, brother, go ahead.

00:01:00,455 --> 00:01:01,807

Yeah, growing up,

00:01:01,807 --> 00:01:02,436

Bye y'all.

00:01:02,436 --> 00:01:09,175

My grandmother, which was really the only grandparent I was, how would you say, around

that, was a faithful Christian.

00:01:09,175 --> 00:01:13,909

My parents, every now and again, they talked about God, but it was always real short and

brief.

00:01:13,909 --> 00:01:22,566

So the time spent with my nana, she would tell us about Bible scripture, and a lot of it

was pointing out things about the family around us, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't

00:01:22,566 --> 00:01:23,139

do this.

00:01:23,139 --> 00:01:30,402

I understood what she was saying, but it seemed like she was about the only person around

me that was really living it out.

00:01:30,402 --> 00:01:41,571

So it was hard for me to put importance on, I guess, on what she was saying because it

seemed everybody was doing what they wanted and living life their

00:01:41,571 --> 00:01:48,067

on their own terms and trying to see God through the whole mess that everybody around me

was creating for me was really hard.

00:01:48,067 --> 00:01:51,379

Was your grandmother a Christian or like went to church?

00:01:51,379 --> 00:01:52,671

Yeah, she.

00:01:52,671 --> 00:01:56,766

She always watched sermons on TV and few times.

00:01:56,766 --> 00:02:00,308

Did she ever take us to church because the whole life was really busy.

00:02:00,308 --> 00:02:04,350

She's one of those grandmothers that took care of her children, took care of her

children's children.

00:02:04,350 --> 00:02:07,541

and then her children, all the way to her great grandchildren to this day.

00:02:07,541 --> 00:02:17,333

So when you say people did whatever they wanted, are you kind of, I mean, did people in

your family generally acknowledge Jesus Christ or was it kind of like, oh, that's our

00:02:17,333 --> 00:02:22,556

grandmother's faith, it's not really our faith or we acknowledge it but we don't really

live like it?

00:02:22,556 --> 00:02:30,790

So the family that I was mostly surrounded by was my father and just for a few years his

brothers and then just some cousins.

00:02:30,790 --> 00:02:34,786

my dad, he would always say, he would tell us God is your true father.

00:02:34,786 --> 00:02:39,180

you are my children and God's gonna hold me accountable for how good of a job I do as a

father.

00:02:39,180 --> 00:02:41,073

But that's about where he kept it.

00:02:41,073 --> 00:02:42,925

Because he was always at work a lot.

00:02:42,925 --> 00:02:46,652

it was at work and home life that he created was very unstable.

00:02:46,652 --> 00:02:48,534

my sister followed my Nana's footsteps.

00:02:48,534 --> 00:02:55,402

So but my other uncles that were around for a little while, they were just really involved

in drug activity and gang life.

00:02:55,402 --> 00:02:57,106

home was, violent.

00:02:57,106 --> 00:03:02,443

At times, there was a lot of hostility That's, an aspect of life my dad tried to shelter

us from.

00:03:02,443 --> 00:03:06,776

And his relationship with my mom when they were married was not good at all.

00:03:06,776 --> 00:03:08,296

God was not in their relationship.

00:03:08,296 --> 00:03:10,378

They didn't put God at the center of their relationship.

00:03:10,378 --> 00:03:12,511

So that's why at a young age, my parents divorced.

00:03:12,511 --> 00:03:13,822

Is your mom a Christian?

00:03:13,822 --> 00:03:14,203

Yeah.

00:03:14,203 --> 00:03:19,258

my mom, would sing Jesus loves you this I know to us when we were little.

00:03:19,258 --> 00:03:22,451

And that's one like really good memory I have of her when I was little.

00:03:22,451 --> 00:03:25,625

But my parents got divorced when I was five or six, I think.

00:03:25,625 --> 00:03:30,245

So I didn't see my mom for a long time because once they got divorced, my dad kicked her

out of the house and I didn't see her for

00:03:30,245 --> 00:03:31,688

eight or nine years after that.

00:03:31,688 --> 00:03:34,491

my mom struggled with drinking a lot too.

00:03:34,491 --> 00:03:39,414

when I was able to move back in with my mom around age 13, it was just, it was all bad.

00:03:39,414 --> 00:03:41,823

So who were you living with up to age 13?

00:03:41,823 --> 00:03:46,611

my dad, he moved us in with my grandmother, his mother, my Nana.

00:03:46,611 --> 00:03:49,294

And so she was like the mother of the house.

00:03:49,294 --> 00:03:50,709

us for a while there.

00:03:50,709 --> 00:03:53,431

And then my dad got remarried shortly afterwards.

00:03:53,431 --> 00:03:55,967

And then there was a domestic fight at the house.

00:03:55,967 --> 00:03:57,698

my dad and my nana split the household.

00:03:57,698 --> 00:04:05,287

So my sister stayed with my nana because my dad didn't feel that he could properly raise a

woman because my dad was a rough guy.

00:04:05,287 --> 00:04:14,288

that's why my sister turned out to be the most responsible and probably one of the better

examples of a good Christian that I had in my life throughout all this because she was one

00:04:14,288 --> 00:04:23,244

person who always reminded me you know Jesus loved you and every time the four times I

went to rehab three of those times she's the one who sent me a Bible made sure I took a

00:04:23,244 --> 00:04:31,454

Bible with me and then she would explain to me the best she could about my situation the

way God saw it and those words that she shared with me

00:04:31,454 --> 00:04:40,431

in those moments really wasn't stuff I wanted to hear, but it was the words I held onto

dearly because everything she said, what God said about me or God's love, like those

00:04:40,431 --> 00:04:41,193

things stuck with me.

00:04:41,193 --> 00:04:43,095

I never forgot him even though I didn't want to hear him.

00:04:43,095 --> 00:04:52,013

So in God's providence, you got sent down this path of I'm now going to be more influenced

by my dad and his brothers than I am my Nana for a while.

00:04:52,013 --> 00:04:55,276

And how, what kind of spiritual effect did that have on you?

00:04:55,276 --> 00:04:55,626

What?

00:04:55,626 --> 00:04:59,045

How did that change your life being influenced by those guys?

00:04:59,045 --> 00:04:59,417

00:04:59,417 --> 00:05:02,349

I developed an ego that stood in the way of everything.

00:05:02,349 --> 00:05:07,361

it was looking at my dad, my uncles, was the whole, can't tell me nothing about what I'm

doing.

00:05:07,361 --> 00:05:10,584

As long as I take care of my stuff, you shouldn't have a problem with what I'm doing.

00:05:10,584 --> 00:05:13,567

And if you do, there's going to be a problem between us type attitude.

00:05:13,567 --> 00:05:14,576

just let me do what I want.

00:05:14,576 --> 00:05:21,522

you can't tell me nothing that's kind of stuck with me for a long time because I admired

that about my dad because he was a real scary person.

00:05:21,522 --> 00:05:30,164

And me growing up, as you could see, I was little bit of a wimp and I was afraid of a lot

of things, but my dad was somebody who always had my back.

00:05:30,164 --> 00:05:32,615

And I saw that everybody was afraid of him.

00:05:32,615 --> 00:05:35,486

Are you comfortable telling the audience what your dad did for a living?

00:05:35,486 --> 00:05:43,786

Oh, he was when he was younger, he enlisted in the Navy and he's real modest about it.

00:05:43,786 --> 00:05:45,397

He'll say, I was an engine man.

00:05:45,397 --> 00:05:47,988

But he, um, yeah, for

00:05:47,988 --> 00:05:51,020

six or seven years there he was a SEAL Team Six

00:05:50,863 --> 00:06:00,480

I was watching him and what he has suffered through as far as his condition when he came

back like I'm real appreciative of what the veterans go through and just what it looks

00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:07,291

like for someone to I guess sacrifice the innocent part of them I wouldn't say innocent

but

00:06:07,291 --> 00:06:09,022

it does something to the nice part of them.

00:06:09,022 --> 00:06:11,284

It definitely affects the conscience.

00:06:11,284 --> 00:06:11,622

And

00:06:11,611 --> 00:06:20,225

watching him tell me that God was what I needed, but watching him suffer with what he

suffered with and thinking like, wow, I could not fathom what it is my dad goes through.

00:06:20,225 --> 00:06:23,729

But yet he tells me Jesus Christ is who I need to lean on.

00:06:23,725 --> 00:06:24,356

because

00:06:24,356 --> 00:06:27,789

He told us that every now and again and really did he didn't never went to church really.

00:06:27,789 --> 00:06:29,780

so was kind of hard to trust that.

00:06:29,780 --> 00:06:37,042

but again, that stuck with me this is what my dad says helps a man like him and saves a

man like him.

00:06:37,042 --> 00:06:38,562

And that's what I need to do.

00:06:38,562 --> 00:06:40,282

And that's the one thing I couldn't do.

100

00:06:40,282 --> 00:06:46,356

And just watching him struggle with, everything he hadn't given to God at the time, it

was.

101

00:06:46,356 --> 00:06:53,203

I guess real humbling to watch my childhood superhero turn human in front of me.

102

00:06:53,203 --> 00:06:54,855

But yet he still relied on God.

103

00:06:54,855 --> 00:06:59,370

And I remember there was a moment where my dad wanted me to get down on my knees and pray

with him.

104

00:06:59,370 --> 00:07:00,912

I couldn't do it.

105

00:07:00,912 --> 00:07:03,616

I remember, this was 10 years ago maybe.

106

00:07:03,616 --> 00:07:05,108

And he...

107

00:07:05,108 --> 00:07:14,483

He kept asking me please son get down I want you to do this with me and that I can't I

can't and it was because I was already hooked on drugs heavily and I was just full of so

108

00:07:14,483 --> 00:07:23,839

much self hatred I had no peace no inner peace at all no love for myself and I hated the

world around me but I was trying to be there for my family when I couldn't even be there

109

00:07:23,839 --> 00:07:24,620

for myself

110

00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:29,851

So going back to 13, I mean, how did you go from 13 to finding yourself in drugs?

111

00:07:29,851 --> 00:07:31,496

I how long did that take?

112

00:07:31,462 --> 00:07:33,264

all it took was me moving in with my mom.

113

00:07:33,264 --> 00:07:36,917

My dad came to a point where my dad had his last wife

114

00:07:36,915 --> 00:07:37,105

had

115

00:07:37,345 --> 00:07:41,910

me and my two brothers, and then his daughter that he had with his new wife and then her

daughter.

116

00:07:41,910 --> 00:07:49,127

And my dad told us, I can't afford to take care of you guys So I'll give you the option to

move in with your mother and go see what that woman is like.

117

00:07:49,127 --> 00:07:52,936

And that's something that he would say about my mom that I didn't like.

118

00:07:52,936 --> 00:07:58,479

He's always like, I keep you from your mom because at some point you're going to see what

type of woman she is.

119

00:07:58,479 --> 00:08:02,395

really, she was just, she hated my dad for the way the relationship was.

120

00:08:02,395 --> 00:08:06,359

Because when he came back from the Navy, she got all of his PTSD fresh.

121

00:08:06,359 --> 00:08:08,882

And One reason he married her was because he got her pregnant.

122

00:08:08,882 --> 00:08:11,845

He didn't marry her because he loved her or planned to have A family with her.

123

00:08:11,845 --> 00:08:12,427

Yeah.

124

00:08:12,427 --> 00:08:14,711

in his words, it was the old fashioned thing to do.

125

00:08:14,711 --> 00:08:16,123

I thought it was the right thing to do.

126

00:08:16,123 --> 00:08:18,416

So I just married her and tried to make it work.

127

00:08:18,395 --> 00:08:24,163

so me and my twin brother, we chose to move in with my mom because for all those years

that I hadn't seen my mom,

128

00:08:24,163 --> 00:08:24,883

I want to see my mom.

129

00:08:24,883 --> 00:08:25,513

want to see my mom.

130

00:08:25,513 --> 00:08:26,094

I love my mom.

131

00:08:26,094 --> 00:08:26,804

I miss my mom.

132

00:08:26,804 --> 00:08:27,965

I haven't seen her in such a long time.

133

00:08:27,965 --> 00:08:29,207

That's one thing I remember.

134

00:08:29,207 --> 00:08:38,736

Like one of my longest hurtful memories that I have as a kid is missing my mom and not

being able to see her, not being able to talk to her and him cutting things short because,

135

00:08:38,736 --> 00:08:40,238

your mom's talking bad about me.

136

00:08:40,238 --> 00:08:41,579

You shouldn't have to hear this.

137

00:08:41,579 --> 00:08:43,920

And it was always cut short.

138

00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,665

So when we moved in with my mom, all of a sudden there's not many rules in the house.

139

00:08:47,665 --> 00:08:50,047

I don't have to show up to school as much as I have to.

140

00:08:50,047 --> 00:08:52,099

If I wanted to stay home, my mom would let me stay home.

141

00:08:52,099 --> 00:08:54,551

And so staying home, like what am I gonna do?

142

00:08:54,551 --> 00:08:57,334

We go play outside and get introduced to weed.

143

00:08:57,319 --> 00:08:59,241

my mom and my dad were real heavy drinkers.

144

00:08:59,241 --> 00:09:00,202

Really heavy drinkers.

145

00:09:00,202 --> 00:09:04,602

My mom's 11 years sober now, but at this time she was really drowning herself.

146

00:09:04,602 --> 00:09:08,398

Just like my uncles were on drugs, my mom's sisters drink.

147

00:09:08,398 --> 00:09:10,378

something related to alcohol, but she drank a lot.

148

00:09:10,378 --> 00:09:11,389

She drank herself to death.

149

00:09:11,389 --> 00:09:20,281

So everybody in my family had these addictions, so me and my twin brother, go out, we

start smoking weed and drinking heavily, and then it's all just flying under my mom's

150

00:09:20,281 --> 00:09:20,622

radar.

151

00:09:20,622 --> 00:09:26,934

when she looked at us, she saw my dad and her dislike for my dad was verbalized towards

us.

152

00:09:26,934 --> 00:09:31,428

So like at home became really emotionally abusive.

153

00:09:31,428 --> 00:09:35,108

And when my brother left me, it was physically abusive with my mother.

154

00:09:35,108 --> 00:09:41,101

I would tell my mom all the time like I don't like you but I love you because she was she

was so mean to me and Not because she hated me.

155

00:09:41,101 --> 00:09:44,712

She was trusting the alcohol more than she trusted God in those moments.

156

00:09:44,712 --> 00:09:50,973

And for me, that just kind of became the darkest, period of my life where my own mother

was being really mean to me.

157

00:09:50,973 --> 00:09:54,696

I couldn't come home and have the love of my mother there.

158

00:09:54,696 --> 00:09:59,347

It was just come home and I can get messed up and take off and go as I please.

159

00:09:59,347 --> 00:10:01,419

But every time I saw her, it was an argument.

160

00:10:01,419 --> 00:10:06,614

I would ask God, why did you have to make my life this hard?

161

00:10:06,614 --> 00:10:12,326

Because this is turning me into something and making me feel in ways I cannot handle.

162

00:10:12,326 --> 00:10:16,291

Rather than seeing moments like look at what God is showing me or like look at what God

has done for me.

163

00:10:16,291 --> 00:10:23,040

It's I'm not gonna use that as an excuse you made my life hard You made me feel my life

was bad, so that gave me a good reason to act bad.

164

00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,701

That's how you felt towards God.

165

00:10:24,701 --> 00:10:29,612

Yeah, You felt like you had a license to go do whatever you wanted to do.

166

00:10:29,612 --> 00:10:30,854

Yeah, and then.

167

00:10:30,854 --> 00:10:35,619

And with my parents, looking at them, they would tell me oh, you need to be careful, Tony.

168

00:10:35,619 --> 00:10:36,459

You shouldn't be doing this.

169

00:10:36,459 --> 00:10:38,261

Or Tony, you know, your attitude is very wrong.

170

00:10:38,261 --> 00:10:40,753

well, you should have thought about that a long time ago.

171

00:10:40,753 --> 00:10:43,553

you can obviously see how much I'm hurting on the inside.

172

00:10:43,553 --> 00:10:45,485

And I was always just like, this is your fault.

173

00:10:45,485 --> 00:10:51,297

So I hope this hurts for you to see me this way, because this is how my whole life has

felt up to this point.

174

00:10:51,297 --> 00:10:52,188

So you were bitter.

175

00:10:52,188 --> 00:10:57,337

Very angry very and Did you ever get an answer to your question about?

176

00:10:57,337 --> 00:11:03,812

to this day I mean, what would you say is why because a lot of people ask the question why

who have a hard life?

177

00:11:03,812 --> 00:11:05,953

Why would why would a good God allow this?

178

00:11:05,953 --> 00:11:07,865

How would you answer that question?

179

00:11:07,865 --> 00:11:10,797

To somebody who's an unbeliever who says my life is hard.

180

00:11:10,797 --> 00:11:11,658

I'm on the streets.

181

00:11:11,658 --> 00:11:14,871

I'm addicted Why would God allow this to happen to me?

182

00:11:14,871 --> 00:11:19,134

You know, that's one thing that it took me a while to really

183

00:11:19,134 --> 00:11:21,224

come up with my take on it.

184

00:11:21,224 --> 00:11:26,249

I take it as my parents probably could have done a better job as being parents, but.

185

00:11:26,249 --> 00:11:27,340

I think you're being nice.

186

00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:28,410

Yeah.

187

00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:31,621

They could have definitely done.

188

00:11:31,621 --> 00:11:34,744

But I just took it as maybe they tried their best.

189

00:11:34,744 --> 00:11:36,004

but they did a terrible job.

190

00:11:36,004 --> 00:11:37,475

But at the end of the day, they still love me.

191

00:11:37,475 --> 00:11:44,237

I try not to point the finger and blame them, but I want to blame myself.

192

00:11:44,237 --> 00:11:48,808

But how can I look at this without blaming God, without blaming them, and without blaming

myself?

193

00:11:48,808 --> 00:11:55,510

This is just an accumulated, I guess the end result of everything being mishandled on

everybody's side.

194

00:11:55,510 --> 00:11:58,213

in a way, but like there are some good parts to it, guess.

195

00:11:58,213 --> 00:12:01,415

But you'd agree that, I mean, God didn't mishandle anything.

196

00:12:01,415 --> 00:12:01,876

He's good.

197

00:12:01,876 --> 00:12:02,907

He's perfect.

198

00:12:02,907 --> 00:12:03,651

Yes.

199

00:12:03,651 --> 00:12:05,163

but sin's the problem.

200

00:12:05,163 --> 00:12:06,016

Sin, yes.

201

00:12:06,016 --> 00:12:10,730

life being that way, weeded out some of the bad things in my character that could have

stayed.

202

00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:15,104

it allowed me to see in my parents what I don't want to be like and what's wrong.

203

00:12:15,104 --> 00:12:17,146

but I also see where they got it from.

204

00:12:17,146 --> 00:12:20,593

And then I look at myself and I see what I have in common with that.

205

00:12:20,593 --> 00:12:22,043

And then I see where I get it from.

206

00:12:22,043 --> 00:12:23,264

And how can I stop this?

207

00:12:23,264 --> 00:12:26,905

What do you think God was trying to show you through all of that?

208

00:12:26,905 --> 00:12:35,321

Looking at how they've mishandled life, looking at just the sin and the suffering and

even, you you having started to use drugs and all that.

209

00:12:35,321 --> 00:12:37,822

mean, what do you think God was trying to do now?

210

00:12:37,822 --> 00:12:44,672

Looking back from where you are here, that shows me where my parents should have put God

in their life and trusted God

211

00:12:44,672 --> 00:12:47,146

where they didn't do that, that's where I need to do that.

212

00:12:47,146 --> 00:12:49,168

So I don't pass it on to anybody else.

213

00:12:49,168 --> 00:12:57,516

It's amazing to me, you know, every time I listen to your life, Tony, I never sit here and

think I was a better person in my teenage years.

214

00:12:57,516 --> 00:12:58,357

Not at all.

215

00:12:58,357 --> 00:13:02,962

I was I was just as sinful of a person, but my life was not as hard as yours.

216

00:13:02,962 --> 00:13:07,945

but it's sometimes in those really difficult moments that God shows us we need a savior.

217

00:13:07,945 --> 00:13:09,606

We can't fix it ourselves.

218

00:13:09,606 --> 00:13:11,267

Did you try to fix it?

219

00:13:11,267 --> 00:13:21,096

Tell us about, mean, how did your relationship with drugs and all that, how did it not

only affect your relationship with God and what it did to you spiritually, but I mean, how

220

00:13:21,096 --> 00:13:24,178

far down the road of drugs did it end up taking you?

221

00:13:24,178 --> 00:13:32,457

In the end, mean, a year and a half ago, I had spent three days sleeping on the side of

the freeway because the cops came and raided the house where I was staying.

222

00:13:32,457 --> 00:13:33,787

So I didn't have a stable home.

223

00:13:33,787 --> 00:13:39,013

was kind of just living in what they call a trap house where drugs are sold, because

that's where everybody's welcome.

224

00:13:39,013 --> 00:13:47,159

And just sitting there looking around at all these people who I did not like going, wow,

what do I have in common with these people that puts us in the same house?

225

00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:49,331

And thinking how do I fit in here?

226

00:13:49,331 --> 00:13:53,082

And then, yeah, so the police come raid the house, house gets condemned.

227

00:13:53,082 --> 00:13:54,573

And there I am with nowhere to go.

228

00:13:54,573 --> 00:13:58,709

I can either stay on drugs, which was crystal meth and fentanyl at the time.

229

00:13:58,709 --> 00:14:01,592

or I can go to my sister's house and get help.

230

00:14:01,592 --> 00:14:04,065

And I already went to rehab three times.

231

00:14:04,065 --> 00:14:05,205

And this was going to be the fourth time.

232

00:14:05,205 --> 00:14:07,757

The first time I went to rehab, was I'm never coming back here.

233

00:14:07,757 --> 00:14:09,458

For me, it was kind of like being in jail.

234

00:14:09,458 --> 00:14:12,091

I had went to jail for drugs.

235

00:14:12,091 --> 00:14:14,213

All my charges are drug and weapon charges.

236

00:14:14,213 --> 00:14:23,916

I was looking at 10 years in prison for getting caught with drugs and then getting put on

probation, getting caught with a gun and drugs, and then going back to jail and violating

237

00:14:23,916 --> 00:14:25,117

probation with a gun and drugs.

238

00:14:25,117 --> 00:14:26,260

it's like, dude,

239

00:14:26,260 --> 00:14:30,302

how much am I willing to let drugs and this behavior take from me?

240

00:14:30,302 --> 00:14:33,017

And at that time, I didn't care at all.

241

00:14:33,017 --> 00:14:34,098

Please take it all.

242

00:14:34,098 --> 00:14:38,559

in my addiction, if I were to die, at least I wouldn't have to hurt no more.

243

00:14:38,559 --> 00:14:39,980

That's the thought that would go through my head.

244

00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:40,831

Just take this from me.

245

00:14:40,831 --> 00:14:42,422

Please don't make me suffer too much.

246

00:14:42,422 --> 00:14:44,802

Is that something you would say to God in that time?

247

00:14:44,802 --> 00:14:46,885

Is just take me off this earth?

248

00:14:46,885 --> 00:14:47,467

Yeah.

249

00:14:47,467 --> 00:14:52,938

I could only hope to smoke this pill, fall asleep and not wake up.

250

00:14:52,938 --> 00:14:56,498

that because that happened one time had to be Narcan.

251

00:14:56,498 --> 00:14:57,989

And it was my accident.

252

00:14:57,989 --> 00:15:00,720

Like because I was I was dope sick.

253

00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,051

And then I went and smoked some really strong drugs and just boom immediately.

254

00:15:05,051 --> 00:15:07,271

It was like I blinked my eyes and I was waking up again.

255

00:15:07,271 --> 00:15:10,483

But it was like six hours later and I was in my bed.

256

00:15:10,483 --> 00:15:12,283

somebody was sitting next to me like, are okay?

257

00:15:12,283 --> 00:15:17,074

And I was throwing up like, ugh, And my whole thought was, I didn't even know what

happened.

258

00:15:17,074 --> 00:15:23,747

So I woke up not even knowing why I'm surrounded by people and I'm sick to my stomach and

dude, you almost died, you turned blue.

259

00:15:23,747 --> 00:15:27,418

And I'm like, oh, you should have just left me alone.

260

00:15:27,418 --> 00:15:34,389

By the way, for our audience, if you don't know what Narcan is, it's a life-saving drug

that can be given to somebody who's overdosed.

261

00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:36,620

what's it mean to be dope sick?

262

00:15:36,620 --> 00:15:39,783

Dope sick is when you're withdrawing off of drugs.

263

00:15:39,783 --> 00:15:43,696

So you have a chemical dependency to like heroin or fentanyl or something.

264

00:15:43,696 --> 00:15:46,309

But at that time, you ran out of drugs and you don't have any.

265

00:15:46,309 --> 00:15:49,203

So you're starting to, it's like having the flu really bad.

266

00:15:49,203 --> 00:15:50,935

And you're just, so weak.

267

00:15:50,935 --> 00:15:52,977

you're desperate for the drug.

268

00:15:52,977 --> 00:15:54,298

Like so desperate.

269

00:15:54,298 --> 00:15:54,889

I remember it.

270

00:15:54,889 --> 00:16:00,344

And those times, like that desperation, it's just like all you can think about is just,

all that matters is getting more of the drug.

271

00:16:00,344 --> 00:16:08,344

And honestly, recovering, that's the scariest part is letting the drugs go and having to

go through that period of withdrawal, of dope sickness.

272

00:16:08,344 --> 00:16:14,163

Because you have to, when you go to rehab, it took me like two weeks to get good, to be

better.

273

00:16:14,163 --> 00:16:17,237

And I did it without medical assisted therapy, which is like the...

274

00:16:17,237 --> 00:16:19,979

the drugs they give you for all the symptoms and stuff.

275

00:16:19,979 --> 00:16:22,041

They use methadone wafers, right?

276

00:16:22,041 --> 00:16:33,093

They can, they can use that, suboxone, Vivitrol, but they give you medicines for like

restless leg syndrome, because your legs are never comfortable, or nausea, and even pain

277

00:16:33,093 --> 00:16:34,895

relievers and stuff to help you sleep.

278

00:16:34,895 --> 00:16:37,218

So how long did this last?

279

00:16:37,218 --> 00:16:40,071

I mean, you said it's a year and a half ago.

280

00:16:40,071 --> 00:16:41,651

that you're on the side of the highway.

281

00:16:41,651 --> 00:16:46,242

I mean, how do we go from that to the Tony we're sitting in front of today?

282

00:16:46,242 --> 00:16:50,344

mean, how long did that drug period last and then what changed?

283

00:16:50,344 --> 00:16:55,395

The weed and alcohol was probably from age 13 to 18.

284

00:16:55,395 --> 00:16:57,486

18 was when I started doing cocaine.

285

00:16:57,486 --> 00:17:01,708

then 20, age 20 to 30, I started doing meth.

286

00:17:01,708 --> 00:17:05,379

Age 26 to 30 is when I started doing fentanyl.

287

00:17:05,379 --> 00:17:09,462

And I had got addicted to that because I had an injury in my foot that hurt so bad.

288

00:17:09,462 --> 00:17:13,896

And I was already staying at a trap house, but I was totally against it.

289

00:17:13,896 --> 00:17:16,749

Being on drugs, you can make a list of things you would never do.

290

00:17:16,749 --> 00:17:21,934

And then once you get on drugs, start checking those things off because you're going to

start doing them and becoming somebody you don't recognize.

291

00:17:21,934 --> 00:17:26,368

all the, I guess, negative ways you could look at yourself were becoming what you said you

would never become.

292

00:17:26,368 --> 00:17:29,833

And so it was like 10 years of hard drugs, pretty much.

293

00:17:29,833 --> 00:17:37,929

And so from the freeway, I made it to my sister's house, which was the longest walk I ever

took in the sun, pulling my clothes with me.

294

00:17:37,929 --> 00:17:42,024

And I just remember thinking, I remember I felt done, absolutely done.

295

00:17:42,024 --> 00:17:45,477

And every couple hours I had to stop and lay down on the floor.

296

00:17:45,477 --> 00:17:50,701

would find a shady spot in the grass and I would look up at the sky man, I don't know if I

can make it to my sister's house.

297

00:17:50,701 --> 00:17:52,073

It is so hot out here.

298

00:17:52,073 --> 00:17:57,425

I'm so, was 255 pounds and for me, my size, that's really skinny.

299

00:17:57,425 --> 00:18:00,417

I fit into an extra large size XL shirt.

300

00:18:00,417 --> 00:18:01,577

How tall are you?

301

00:18:01,577 --> 00:18:02,473

I'm 6'4".

302

00:18:02,473 --> 00:18:02,693

Okay.

303

00:18:02,693 --> 00:18:04,048

325 pounds right now.

304

00:18:04,048 --> 00:18:09,774

Right then I was 255 and super sunburned, super brown.

305

00:18:09,774 --> 00:18:13,266

In Phoenix in summer, 120 degrees outside.

306

00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:17,532

And then, and you're walking by all these people and everyone's just ew, get away from me.

307

00:18:17,532 --> 00:18:19,004

or you get kicked off the bus.

308

00:18:19,004 --> 00:18:21,256

Which I mean don't blame them for kicking you off the bus and everything.

309

00:18:21,256 --> 00:18:24,418

Had you been treated like that a lot by people in Phoenix?

310

00:18:24,418 --> 00:18:29,281

mean people in Phoenix tend to homeless or addicted population very roughly.

311

00:18:29,281 --> 00:18:31,353

Is that kind of, was your experience?

312

00:18:31,353 --> 00:18:32,295

At that time, yeah.

313

00:18:32,295 --> 00:18:35,922

And usually when people be you're on drugs.

314

00:18:35,922 --> 00:18:38,958

when I wasn't, I guess, it would make me very mad.

315

00:18:38,958 --> 00:18:41,021

and I would get hostile with people.

316

00:18:41,021 --> 00:18:42,362

it wouldn't be don't judge me.

317

00:18:42,362 --> 00:18:44,455

It's just you got a problem with what I'm doing?

318

00:18:44,455 --> 00:18:45,295

Don't look at me then.

319

00:18:45,295 --> 00:18:54,585

And that's kind of, was kind of my attitude towards God before that was just you know,

please, if you could turn a blind eye to me, because I'm not gonna like what I feel I'm

320

00:18:54,585 --> 00:18:55,175

turning into.

321

00:18:55,175 --> 00:18:58,046

And I know you're not gonna probably be too proud of what you're seeing.

322

00:18:58,046 --> 00:19:01,509

So now as a Christian, how would you encourage other Christians?

323

00:19:01,509 --> 00:19:03,881

What's the right way for us to interact?

324

00:19:03,881 --> 00:19:08,374

with that kind of person we see at a intersection or bus stop.

325

00:19:08,374 --> 00:19:10,005

there's a reason they're doing the drugs.

326

00:19:10,005 --> 00:19:12,117

I guess you could say something happened to them.

327

00:19:12,117 --> 00:19:16,328

They say the opposite of addiction is connection, having a relationship with them.

328

00:19:16,328 --> 00:19:21,259

I think about my brother Nick all the time when I think about this, because my brother

Nick is on the streets right now.

329

00:19:21,259 --> 00:19:27,382

And if I were to see him today, I wouldn't pull over and be like, hey, what are you doing,

idiot?

330

00:19:27,382 --> 00:19:28,642

Get off the drugs.

331

00:19:28,642 --> 00:19:29,382

Go get help.

332

00:19:29,382 --> 00:19:30,393

That's what you need to do.

333

00:19:30,393 --> 00:19:38,076

It was just I would get out and give my brother a hug telling my love him just Offer to

help him and we said no, I'd sit down and talk with him for a while Is there anything else

334

00:19:38,076 --> 00:19:42,500

a a christian can do to encourage somebody who's struggling like that on the street?

335

00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:43,800

Anything tangible?

336

00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:53,085

mean obviously we probably don't want to give them money because that money's cash is

going to be used for Their problem most likely Talking I mean if they're open to it

337

00:19:53,085 --> 00:19:55,851

talking to them about God is

338

00:19:55,851 --> 00:20:05,012

something that stuck with me in that moment and it's the best thing you can do because I

mean giving them money just allows them to keep doing what they're doing but talking to

339

00:20:05,012 --> 00:20:08,057

them about God or giving them a bottle of water that's

340

00:20:08,057 --> 00:20:08,961

priceless.

341

00:20:08,961 --> 00:20:17,692

those people feel unloved by everything and to sit there and talk about God's love, tell

them God loves them, for someone to be nice, not want nothing from them, not be there to

342

00:20:17,692 --> 00:20:22,871

hurt them, but to just give them that little bit or give them that much, that's, it means

the world to a lot of people.

343

00:20:22,871 --> 00:20:24,857

And my sister when she took me to rehab,

344

00:20:24,857 --> 00:20:27,278

And I did the two months over there and I went to my sober living.

345

00:20:27,278 --> 00:20:28,839

this after you got to her house?

346

00:20:28,839 --> 00:20:29,569

finally got there.

347

00:20:29,569 --> 00:20:30,239

She took you to rehab.

348

00:20:30,239 --> 00:20:30,910

Finally made it there.

349

00:20:30,910 --> 00:20:31,730

And I laid down.

350

00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:32,572

I remember she looked at me.

351

00:20:32,572 --> 00:20:36,285

She's like, Tony, you can't stay here, but I will take you somewhere to go get some help.

352

00:20:36,285 --> 00:20:38,216

And that's what I asked her to do last time I was in rehab.

353

00:20:38,216 --> 00:20:41,135

was hey, Nicole, you made it easy for me to be an addict at your house.

354

00:20:41,135 --> 00:20:45,186

so the next time if I ever you ever think I'm on drugs again, don't let me stay here.

355

00:20:45,186 --> 00:20:46,878

Don't do don't do none of this.

356

00:20:46,878 --> 00:20:47,959

that made it easy for me.

357

00:20:47,959 --> 00:20:49,792

just offered to take me to go get me some help.

358

00:20:49,792 --> 00:20:55,836

because I'm not trying to live like this How many times had you been in rehab?

359

00:20:55,836 --> 00:20:57,538

That time was gonna be the fourth time.

360

00:20:57,538 --> 00:20:59,519

Now this is the time where it worked.

361

00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:00,120

Yeah.

362

00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:01,022

Why did it work?

363

00:21:01,022 --> 00:21:03,027

I didn't know how to be a good Christian.

364

00:21:03,027 --> 00:21:08,882

I knew about the Bible, I knew some of the things it said, but I really didn't know what

it was that God was saying to me.

365

00:21:08,882 --> 00:21:12,484

And I didn't know how to take the advice from my sister or

366

00:21:12,484 --> 00:21:14,546

Other people that told me you know, you need to trust in God.

367

00:21:14,546 --> 00:21:15,165

God loves you.

368

00:21:15,165 --> 00:21:24,407

And it's OK, these things are starting to mean more and more to me I was unsure of how to

go about it, I guess getting to a church and going to church and then being surrounded by

369

00:21:24,407 --> 00:21:27,464

people Who's who God word lives through

370

00:21:27,464 --> 00:21:36,042

faithful Christians, seeing that and just that peace they have and how they do it, that's

something I hadn't been surrounded with my whole life, really, just my Nana.

371

00:21:36,042 --> 00:21:40,486

And just a few words spoken by my parents of seeing that it was how do I make myself a

part of that?

372

00:21:40,486 --> 00:21:45,613

And just a lot of people on the streets that want help, they can want it, but they don't

know how to do it.

373

00:21:45,613 --> 00:21:49,266

And what helps is having somebody who reaches their hand out and says, here, you want

374

00:21:49,266 --> 00:21:52,872

come with me I'll show you how to do this or I'll just expose you to it.

375

00:21:52,872 --> 00:22:02,550

So you're sitting in rehab and you're okay I need something to change I need I want to

become a Christian but I don't even know how how do you go from that to such I mean who

376

00:22:02,550 --> 00:22:03,372

reached out to you?

377

00:22:03,372 --> 00:22:13,033

When I was at my I was talking to my sister after I left rehab the last time and I was

staying at a sober living which was the next step You know go to rehab and then you get

378

00:22:13,033 --> 00:22:22,173

out of rehab if you don't have anywhere to go You just you're getting kicked out onto the

street or to a family's house, but I took I was able to take the next step and go to a

379

00:22:22,173 --> 00:22:29,933

sober living where they paid for three months of my Housing as long as I went to therapy

and I remember I was talking to my sister I called her because I hadn't talked to her

380

00:22:29,933 --> 00:22:31,824

since she took me to rehab

381

00:22:31,824 --> 00:22:33,545

It had been two months since I talked to her.

382

00:22:33,545 --> 00:22:35,518

And I wanted to tell her, you know, I'm sorry for this.

383

00:22:35,518 --> 00:22:38,204

And tell her how, I went to church a couple of times in rehab.

384

00:22:38,204 --> 00:22:39,075

They took us to church.

385

00:22:39,075 --> 00:22:43,664

And that is kind of where everything just really started hitting me.

386

00:22:43,664 --> 00:22:47,741

I was telling her, I want to get involved in church.

387

00:22:47,741 --> 00:22:49,186

But I had no car.

388

00:22:49,186 --> 00:22:50,606

I had so much to do.

389

00:22:50,606 --> 00:22:51,528

had to get a job.

390

00:22:51,528 --> 00:22:53,090

but I don't know where to start, Nicole.

391

00:22:53,090 --> 00:22:54,923

And then my sister's name is Nicole.

392

00:22:54,923 --> 00:22:59,041

And she's well, know, Saso goes to church somewhere on Yorkshire.

393

00:22:59,041 --> 00:23:00,692

You're like right in the middle between us.

394

00:23:00,692 --> 00:23:02,094

You're probably closer to him.

395

00:23:02,094 --> 00:23:04,685

is it OK if I send him your number and have him reach out to you?

396

00:23:04,685 --> 00:23:06,837

And you know, could go and start going to church with him.

397

00:23:06,837 --> 00:23:07,416

I was

398

00:23:07,416 --> 00:23:08,928

Yeah, please, I would like that.

399

00:23:08,928 --> 00:23:12,833

And my sister, it's new to her to see this version of me seeking God.

400

00:23:12,833 --> 00:23:15,986

Because she knows the bad version of me.

401

00:23:15,986 --> 00:23:21,449

And you said seeking God is because you want, you're longing for peace in your life.

402

00:23:21,449 --> 00:23:22,040

Yes.

403

00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:22,521

Okay.

404

00:23:22,521 --> 00:23:22,882

And.

405

00:23:22,882 --> 00:23:24,234

So you meet Saso.

406

00:23:24,234 --> 00:23:27,308

Yes, and he's my cousin and I've probably seen him.

407

00:23:27,308 --> 00:23:29,120

two or three times my whole life that I remember.

408

00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:30,200

And it was for a short time.

409

00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,503

So he was a cousin, but not somebody that I knew that well.

410

00:23:33,503 --> 00:23:35,395

By the way, we had him on the podcast.

411

00:23:35,395 --> 00:23:41,112

Last three episodes are, you know, three parts of when we sat down with Ben and Saso, but

keep going.

412

00:23:41,112 --> 00:23:46,206

And, and my sister was telling me how she was, so happy that, I was seeking God and

wanting to get involved in church and seeing

413

00:23:46,206 --> 00:23:51,317

that I was actually interested in what it was she's been trying to tell me for such a long

time.

414

00:23:51,317 --> 00:23:54,969

And so Saso tells me, I'll be back in town in like a week.

415

00:23:54,969 --> 00:23:57,360

And he invites me to freedom that last.

416

00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:57,551

And.

417

00:23:57,551 --> 00:24:02,111

Which is an addictions ministry for our audience that we have here at our church.

418

00:24:02,111 --> 00:24:02,662

Keep going.

419

00:24:02,662 --> 00:24:04,102

And he invites me there.

420

00:24:04,102 --> 00:24:05,342

I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go.

421

00:24:05,342 --> 00:24:05,993

I guess so.

422

00:24:05,993 --> 00:24:15,015

see what this is about, because I had been to hundreds of AA meetings and I was really

hoping it wouldn't be one of those, because it gets kind of stale after a while for me.

423

00:24:15,015 --> 00:24:16,116

AA is?

424

00:24:16,116 --> 00:24:17,246

Alcoholics Anonymous.

425

00:24:17,246 --> 00:24:17,637

Okay.

426

00:24:17,637 --> 00:24:22,641

And because I could just go to one of those across the street, but I was really looking

for something more God-centered.

427

00:24:22,641 --> 00:24:25,733

I was looking for something where God is at the center of it.

428

00:24:25,733 --> 00:24:26,776

Yes, at the center of it.

429

00:24:26,776 --> 00:24:33,114

And my sister has always been somebody when I was little that I would run to, when my dad

would spank me, I would run to her for help.

430

00:24:33,114 --> 00:24:35,557

So my sister was kind of my superhero.

431

00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:38,759

So whenever she told me something, I always trusted it.

432

00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:45,747

So when she told me to get in touch with Saso and this is what would be good for me, I

really, trusted it deep down in my heart that this was the right thing to do.

433

00:24:45,747 --> 00:24:48,159

And so I go to Freedom That Lasts and...

434

00:24:48,159 --> 00:24:49,629

get to meet everybody there

435

00:24:49,629 --> 00:24:59,267

And I felt a little out of place because I I wouldn't say the type of people, but just I

felt different than everybody there just because of, I was real closed off.

436

00:24:59,267 --> 00:25:03,570

I probably missed like one or two Friday nights there in this past year.

437

00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:04,991

And I really enjoy it there.

438

00:25:04,991 --> 00:25:06,571

you've been going for a year now.

439

00:25:06,571 --> 00:25:07,182

Yeah.

440

00:25:07,182 --> 00:25:09,145

And then Saso had told me about

441

00:25:09,145 --> 00:25:18,674

the exchange Bible study and asked me if I if I wanted to to do that with him and I was

like yeah I'm sure and he goes all right well we'll try to set a good day because we

442

00:25:18,674 --> 00:25:27,392

haven't had like we haven't met up that often in the past couple weeks so I'll try to set

a date where it would be more than just me and you there I told him okay and but I was

443

00:25:27,392 --> 00:25:29,363

really really adamant about going

444

00:25:29,363 --> 00:25:32,375

So I told him, I was hey, if no one else shows up, can it just be me and you?

445

00:25:32,375 --> 00:25:33,388

And he's yeah, sure.

446

00:25:33,388 --> 00:25:40,611

which I was really grateful for, because I wanted to get involved in church and I was

seeking God, but I really didn't know what to look into or how.

447

00:25:40,611 --> 00:25:43,148

But I needed someone to show me how.

448

00:25:43,148 --> 00:25:46,782

I lived a little further away from the church that Saso does.

449

00:25:46,782 --> 00:25:49,682

So he would come pick me up and he would ask me, hey, you coming?

450

00:25:49,682 --> 00:25:49,902

You coming?

451

00:25:49,902 --> 00:25:50,553

You want to come?

452

00:25:50,553 --> 00:25:53,684

And he always made sure I had a ride to get there, which I was really grateful for.

453

00:25:53,684 --> 00:25:54,195

And.

454

00:25:54,195 --> 00:25:57,968

And it was new to me to have somebody in my life

455

00:25:57,968 --> 00:26:03,538

who really wanted me to be a part of that and really made it a point to come and get me

and take me and bring me back.

456

00:26:03,538 --> 00:26:07,056

then it seems for me it seemed like it was so out of the out of his way.

457

00:26:07,056 --> 00:26:07,641

But

458

00:26:07,641 --> 00:26:13,046

It is actually geographically is way out of his way, but he did it because he loved you.

459

00:26:13,046 --> 00:26:13,508

Yeah.

460

00:26:13,508 --> 00:26:18,172

And so that meant a lot to you that by itself, the effort meant a lot to you.

461

00:26:18,172 --> 00:26:18,743

Yes.

462

00:26:18,743 --> 00:26:25,621

And being on the street, being around the people that I was surrounded with with the

drugs, love is very foreign.

463

00:26:25,621 --> 00:26:29,855

you're around a lot of people who say, bro, I got love for you or a man people.

464

00:26:29,855 --> 00:26:38,789

that either want something from you or people who are out to cheat and steal and all this

other stuff, it's just that becomes something, the love becomes something you become a

465

00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:41,346

little bit paranoid of.

466

00:26:41,346 --> 00:26:43,301

being told, Tony, Jesus loves you.

467

00:26:43,301 --> 00:26:49,077

And for me, it's a long life of hating myself, not feeling loved by much of the world.

468

00:26:49,077 --> 00:26:52,091

And even just the type of love that my parents displayed.

469

00:26:52,091 --> 00:26:55,383

I mean, how great could God's love be if it's anything like that?

470

00:26:55,383 --> 00:26:57,655

And that's that's kind of what was stuck in my head.

471

00:26:57,655 --> 00:27:06,321

but the more when you guys took me to the exchange and just explained everything and what

God's love is, what he what he wants of us and just I think that's where I first met you

472

00:27:06,321 --> 00:27:07,012

was in those.

473

00:27:07,012 --> 00:27:08,223

Yes, exchange.

474

00:27:08,223 --> 00:27:10,555

I was also asked me to come along and.

475

00:27:10,555 --> 00:27:13,606

where we met each other and so you went through the exchange.

476

00:27:13,606 --> 00:27:22,507

Yes and I had never been stumped by so many questions that I have in church here at FTL

when the freedom of the last one they asked me how did you view God and

477

00:27:22,507 --> 00:27:24,127

What do you think God was doing for you in that moment?

478

00:27:24,127 --> 00:27:25,090

It's just I don't know.

479

00:27:25,090 --> 00:27:27,222

I'm not usually stumped by questions.

480

00:27:27,222 --> 00:27:37,955

And so it's, gave me a lot to think about as much as I had a negative view towards God and

the Bible, how can I not like something I really know nothing about?

481

00:27:37,955 --> 00:27:41,315

Do you remember any of the questions in the exchange that stumped you?

482

00:27:41,315 --> 00:27:44,367

You remember which, which one stumped you?

483

00:27:44,367 --> 00:27:45,087

it's a while ago.

484

00:27:45,087 --> 00:27:46,028

Now it's a year ago.

485

00:27:46,028 --> 00:27:47,133

it was about.

486

00:27:48,706 --> 00:27:53,588

Ten Commandments and then just why this sins are bad and why God doesn't like certain

sinning

487

00:27:53,588 --> 00:27:56,466

I guess one questions that were hard for me to answer was like.

488

00:27:56,466 --> 00:28:00,657

do you believe God sent his Son to die for our sins?

489

00:28:00,657 --> 00:28:04,429

Words like these, have never really left my mouth.

490

00:28:04,525 --> 00:28:14,362

So even the very concepts of Jesus being sent to die for other people's sacrifice, you're

not used to thinking of death and sacrifice and those things in those ways.

491

00:28:14,362 --> 00:28:16,023

you're not even used to using those words.

492

00:28:16,023 --> 00:28:18,715

And especially, especially all the sins that I was guilty of.

493

00:28:18,715 --> 00:28:22,379

And then it's saying how God looks at them.

494

00:28:22,379 --> 00:28:26,092

and why they're punishable by death.

495

00:28:26,092 --> 00:28:28,566

It's like, I'm guilty of so many of those things.

496

00:28:28,566 --> 00:28:31,308

things that I thought made me a man were really,

497

00:28:31,308 --> 00:28:32,589

really sinful traits.

498

00:28:32,589 --> 00:28:36,343

And it's just OK, so if that's what God says about me, then he's saying that about my dad.

499

00:28:36,343 --> 00:28:38,203

it's just like, that make my dad a bad person?

500

00:28:38,203 --> 00:28:38,443

No.

501

00:28:38,443 --> 00:28:43,099

But those are things that he struggled with that he kind of passed on to us.

502

00:28:43,099 --> 00:28:44,291

It was a lot to take in.

503

00:28:44,291 --> 00:28:46,745

I'm sure you guys could see that when we were doing it.

504

00:28:46,745 --> 00:28:48,948

It was was a lot for me to take in the entire time.

505

00:28:48,948 --> 00:28:50,110

Yeah.

506

00:28:50,110 --> 00:28:52,734

So when would you say it clicked?

507

00:28:52,734 --> 00:28:59,511

When did you, when you look back at all that, was there a particular point at which you

accepted Jesus Christ or would you just look back and like, you know what, at some point I

508

00:28:59,511 --> 00:29:01,015

just, yep, I believe that.

509

00:29:01,015 --> 00:29:02,670

I stake my life on it.

510

00:29:02,670 --> 00:29:12,295

right when I got out of rehab went to the sober living where I wouldn't say I was unsure

about it But I was on the fence of is this the way I want to go or do I want to continue

511

00:29:12,295 --> 00:29:18,065

to think the same way I've always thought so I pushed in the direction of seeking God and

then when

512

00:29:18,065 --> 00:29:20,610

and after the exchange, that's when I was set in it.

513

00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:22,272

And even confident in it.

514

00:29:22,272 --> 00:29:23,545

I wasn't ashamed of it,

515

00:29:23,545 --> 00:29:31,512

people that I used to hang around would probably take you as soft and that's not the way I

wanted to be perceived And it's just, it's not something that makes you weak.

516

00:29:31,512 --> 00:29:33,184

not, it makes me stronger.

517

00:29:33,184 --> 00:29:40,475

A lot of my perspective on life and God and everything has been strengthened and totally

the 180 in a good way.

518

00:29:40,475 --> 00:29:49,346

And even with the way I view myself and my family, like I've become a lot more loving to

the things I had a hard time dealing with.

519

00:29:49,346 --> 00:29:50,977

What would you say?

520

00:29:50,977 --> 00:29:53,068

Having spent time in prison.

521

00:29:53,068 --> 00:29:54,888

Are there at jail?

522

00:29:54,888 --> 00:29:55,279

Sorry.

523

00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:56,482

Big difference, by the way.

524

00:29:56,482 --> 00:30:02,051

Having spent time in jail, are there opportunities for Christians to minister to people

who are in jail?

525

00:30:02,051 --> 00:30:06,478

I mean, how could a Christian reach out to somebody in that situation?

526

00:30:06,478 --> 00:30:08,482

if the jail allows it, obviously.

527

00:30:08,482 --> 00:30:17,531

they give you material to read in there but I mean if it was a family member or like a

friend or Somebody you knew that went into jail and you could stay in touch with them then

528

00:30:17,531 --> 00:30:24,435

I would say like writing to them and talking to them about God because they give you

Bibles in jail so you could Tell him to read

529

00:30:24,435 --> 00:30:36,516

Like to read scripture, there would be prayer groups in there But you would have to have

somebody in there who was a good Christian In your pod like in the same area the jail is

530

00:30:36,516 --> 00:30:36,958

you

531

00:30:36,958 --> 00:30:38,469

Do they allow bibles in there?

532

00:30:38,469 --> 00:30:49,048

Yeah By the way, I don't know if you know this but the exchange actually and we send out a

newsletter a while ago But we're actually sending some bibles to a I think a prison not a

533

00:30:49,048 --> 00:30:54,954

jail a prison this week some of the folks in our audience donated money and we actually

keep bibles on stock

534

00:30:54,954 --> 00:30:59,977

that if somebody in a jail or prison requests a Bible from the exchange ministry, we send

it.

535

00:30:59,977 --> 00:31:02,948

We send it with an exchange Bible study and all that stuff.

536

00:31:02,948 --> 00:31:06,770

And so I'd love if more of those got into jails or prisons.

537

00:31:06,770 --> 00:31:09,991

Maybe me and you can put our heads together and figure out how to get even more of that.

538

00:31:09,991 --> 00:31:16,226

And if you're in the audience, if you want a gift towards that, you donate to the ministry

on our website, exchangemessage.org.

539

00:31:16,226 --> 00:31:19,808

You can designate it for prison Bibles, jail Bibles.

540

00:31:19,808 --> 00:31:22,420

And we'll make sure that money is used for that reason.

541

00:31:22,420 --> 00:31:22,972

I think

542

00:31:22,972 --> 00:31:26,732

I think there's a great opportunity for you guys have reading time in there.

543

00:31:26,732 --> 00:31:28,443

I mean as I understand definitely.

544

00:31:28,443 --> 00:31:33,943

Yeah And you could be a really good influence on your celly there too.

545

00:31:33,943 --> 00:31:34,503

Celly?

546

00:31:34,503 --> 00:31:44,464

What is that your cellmate Okay Yeah, cuz that's probably the one person you spend the

most time with depending on where you're at and I know I spent a lot of time with my I

547

00:31:44,464 --> 00:31:52,475

know a lot of it was talking about Nonsense and joking enough to keep your sanity into

where you're not just looking like a crazy person talking to the wall, but

548

00:31:52,475 --> 00:31:55,955

After So you accept Christ you're done with the exchange Bible study.

549

00:31:55,955 --> 00:32:08,339

Yeah, And this was I think in January and it's also dropped me off at the house and I'm

sitting there and I'm like, you know, I think I want to get baptized and

550

00:32:08,339 --> 00:32:11,403

The thought had been on my mind for a while, but I don't know if I'm ready.

551

00:32:11,403 --> 00:32:12,785

I didn't know if I was worthy.

552

00:32:12,785 --> 00:32:15,567

some things I do that are childish and stuff.

553

00:32:15,567 --> 00:32:19,098

it's like, like what would qualify me to you were young in your faith?

554

00:32:19,098 --> 00:32:19,499

Yeah.

555

00:32:19,499 --> 00:32:23,762

so I kind of it put put off throwing that out there to Saso.

556

00:32:23,762 --> 00:32:25,105

I was you know, I'm just gonna do it.

557

00:32:25,105 --> 00:32:31,152

And I told him and then he responded quickly and he gave me your number to set it up.

558

00:32:31,152 --> 00:32:32,572

And I was just I was really happy.

559

00:32:32,572 --> 00:32:34,404

I was really looking forward to it.

560

00:32:34,404 --> 00:32:36,638

which members of your family came to your baptism?

561

00:32:36,638 --> 00:32:39,900

I've never had that much of my family show up for anything for me.

562

00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:44,183

But it was my dad, my mom, who I have not seen in the same room for years.

563

00:32:44,183 --> 00:32:51,118

My twin brother, my older sister, all of her children, her husband, my brother-in-law and

my grandmother.

564

00:32:51,118 --> 00:32:53,619

And there was.

565

00:32:53,619 --> 00:33:00,534

Saso and Rebecca and Ben and Diane, who have been there supporting me from the beginning,

which is.

566

00:33:00,534 --> 00:33:03,063

I love those two, they're really great people.

567

00:33:03,063 --> 00:33:09,271

I don't know what other my family member showed up, but that was a lot more than I could

ask for.

568

00:33:09,271 --> 00:33:15,867

I said, I haven't seen that much of my family in one room, let alone I haven't seen me

being the reason that they're smiling.

569

00:33:15,867 --> 00:33:18,789

Because usually there was always there and they were worried.

570

00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:20,399

Tony, I'm fearing for your life.

571

00:33:20,399 --> 00:33:21,782

Or Tony, stop.

572

00:33:21,782 --> 00:33:22,782

Tony, are you OK?

573

00:33:22,782 --> 00:33:24,376

That's the look I'm used to seeing.

574

00:33:24,376 --> 00:33:30,814

My twin brother he left pretty abruptly That day I remember that cuz I came out he says

bro, it's good to see you.

575

00:33:30,814 --> 00:33:31,787

I love you I'm proud of you.

576

00:33:31,787 --> 00:33:41,409

I gotta go and he took off after you after the baptism Yeah, and it's kind of like he had

rushed to go somewhere and I remember a month ago it was Mother's Day when he told me this

577

00:33:41,409 --> 00:33:44,576

because we were sitting there At my sister's house He goes I'm so

578

00:33:44,576 --> 00:33:52,048

I'm so grateful to God to have you back in my life because he was one person that was

always telling me, I love you, brother.

579

00:33:52,048 --> 00:33:54,299

But when are you going to get your act together?

580

00:33:54,299 --> 00:34:01,579

Do you realize how mad I am at you and my older brother Nick that I'm the only one of us

brothers keeping it strong and holding together?

581

00:34:01,579 --> 00:34:04,279

goes, you guys come and ask us for help.

582

00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:06,150

But who do I have to lean on?

583

00:34:06,150 --> 00:34:09,021

Like when I need my brothers and sisters, he goes, I lean on God.

584

00:34:09,021 --> 00:34:10,401

But he deals with a lot.

585

00:34:10,401 --> 00:34:11,412

My brother deals with a lot.

586

00:34:11,412 --> 00:34:13,012

And he goes, but I miss my brothers.

587

00:34:13,012 --> 00:34:14,323

And he goes, do you realize this?

588

00:34:14,323 --> 00:34:16,294

Do you realize it's just me and my me and Nicole?

589

00:34:16,294 --> 00:34:17,565

Where are you guys?

590

00:34:17,565 --> 00:34:19,396

There's supposed to be four of us.

591

00:34:19,396 --> 00:34:26,147

And he would tell me, you know, my worst fear is going to heaven and not seeing my two

brothers up there with me.

592

00:34:26,147 --> 00:34:28,007

And that was one thing that really stuck with me.

593

00:34:28,007 --> 00:34:29,747

And like, because that's what he would always tell me.

594

00:34:29,747 --> 00:34:33,418

That's my worst fear is getting to heaven and not seeing you guys there because you're

down the wrong path.

595

00:34:33,418 --> 00:34:35,689

And so we're we're at my sister's house.

596

00:34:35,689 --> 00:34:37,610

And he says, I'm so grateful to have you back in my life.

597

00:34:37,610 --> 00:34:40,324

And goes, I'm sorry that I rushed out of there.

598

00:34:40,324 --> 00:34:47,199

But I remember looking up at you and you're giving your testimony and thinking, wow, look

at what God has done with my brother.

599

00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,513

And he goes, and I couldn't take it because it was so overwhelming for me.

600

00:34:50,513 --> 00:34:53,147

I was happy, but I didn't want to cry in front of everybody.

601

00:34:53,147 --> 00:34:55,328

He goes, just I was in awe.

602

00:34:55,328 --> 00:34:56,990

So I had to leave because I'm sorry.

603

00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:59,141

And he just he still didn't give me a big hug.

604

00:34:59,141 --> 00:35:00,924

And that's the conversation that

605

00:35:00,924 --> 00:35:02,305

Is a good conversation.

606

00:35:02,305 --> 00:35:05,218

I just I'm happier back brother My twin brother

607

00:35:05,218 --> 00:35:08,362

Well, I definitely understand why he would get emotional.

608

00:35:08,362 --> 00:35:18,512

mean, I'm sitting here listening to your story, even though having listened to it several

times before fighting back emotion, because it's incredible, brother, to look at your life

609

00:35:18,512 --> 00:35:21,686

and see when God has done and just say, keep going.

610

00:35:21,686 --> 00:35:24,419

Keep humbly walking with the Lord daily.

611

00:35:24,419 --> 00:35:25,539

Stay in your Bible.

612

00:35:25,539 --> 00:35:26,431

Keep praying.

613

00:35:26,431 --> 00:35:28,192

So, very proud of you.

614

00:35:28,192 --> 00:35:28,833

Thank you.

615

00:35:28,833 --> 00:35:29,294

Yeah.

616

00:35:29,294 --> 00:35:30,535

we love you guys.

617

00:35:30,535 --> 00:35:32,226

Pray to the Lord of the harvest.

618

00:35:32,226 --> 00:35:35,268

You guys just heard here what God can do.

619

00:35:35,268 --> 00:35:37,341

I mean, nobody's out of the reach of God.

620

00:35:37,341 --> 00:35:38,371

Would you say, Tony?

621

00:35:38,371 --> 00:35:38,912

Yes.

622

00:35:38,912 --> 00:35:40,843

Yeah, and the harvest is white.

623

00:35:40,843 --> 00:35:41,574

It's ready.

624

00:35:41,574 --> 00:35:43,266

It's Jesus said, go.

625

00:35:43,266 --> 00:35:46,500

The only problem we have with the harvest, we don't have enough laborers.

626

00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:55,228

And I think we just got tremendous insight as laborers on how to reach somebody who's

battling addiction, somebody who's on the street, somebody who's been in jail.

627

00:35:55,228 --> 00:36:00,877

I mean, what makes a difference in that person's life helps us build a relationship so we

can give them the gospel.

628

00:36:00,877 --> 00:36:01,918

It's huge.

629

00:36:01,918 --> 00:36:03,129

And Tony, thank you.

630

00:36:03,129 --> 00:36:08,024

You've encouraged our whole community, our audience, I'm sure is going to benefit from

this greatly for.

631

00:36:08,024 --> 00:36:12,435

years and years to come brother well love you guys will see you next week