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Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. For those of you don't know me,

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my name is Matt Edmundson. It is great to be with you this evening. I am joined

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by the delightful Anna Kettle.

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Good evening everyone, nice to be here again.

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And the equally delightful Sharon Edmundson.

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Hi everybody, good to be here too.

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Yes, so we have 3 people in the studio all geared up and ready for this thing

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called online church. So very warm welcome to you. If this is your first time

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with us, we just do church but online. So, uh, the way it's going to work, it's

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really simple. Let me get my microphone sorted out. Uh, we're going to have a

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talk tonight by Pete Farrington, uh, and we do this thing where we call it

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Conversation Street, where we talk about the talk. So any questions, any

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thoughts, any comments you've got, do put them in, the live stream, uh, and we

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will see those and it'll be great to, um, hear from you. Uh, and yeah, that's

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pretty much about it, isn't it, really? Uh, that's what we do. And at the end of

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it, we switch over to something called Live Lounge. Um, so we just have a Google

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Zoom, Google Meets, where you are more than welcome to come join us. It'd be

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great to see you in there. So how you surviving the heat if you're in England?

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Uh, and welcome to everyone who's not actually still watching the tennis, or

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maybe are you watching the tennis and watching Crowd Church? Be honest. Are you

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watching the Wimbledon semi-final at the same time? Uh, we've got Sharon in the

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comments, Ellis, Funny Budgie Antics. I love the YouTube usernames. Uh, Lady

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Burkeby, Catherine, uh, Rach, Ros. Um, thank you, Funny Bajigant Antics. Yes, I

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am very well, uh, thank you. And who have we got on the mobile stream? We've

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got, uh, Alicia and we've got Sonia. Um, so just so you know, we'll refer to two

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live streams tonight. One is the horizontal and one is the portrait for those

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watching on a mobile phone. YouTube, we can now do both horizontal and vertical,

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so we just have to watch two live streams. That's all, that's it, that's what's

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going on. So anyway, how we doing? How are you doing, Miss Hannah?

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I'm very well. I am a little bit warm, as you alluded to before. Spent most of

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the afternoon in the garden. Um, yeah, had a barbecue, a bit of a water fight

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with the kids. Yeah, so I'm like, yeah, um, ready for this Crowd Church. If only

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just get out of the heat. It's cooler in the studio.

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Yeah, it is really cool here. Yeah, it is really cool. That's nice though. And

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how's your— we have not really seen you today.

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No, no.

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We live in the same house.

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We've crossed over occasionally, haven't we?

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Yeah, we have.

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Yeah.

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Hold on. You can't just stop there. So what have you both been doing? So you

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haven't crossed over.

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So I have spent the day working. Do you really want to know? I've spent the day

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working on this little box of tricks here. Okay, uh, which connects into the

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comments for the live stream, which is a beautiful thing. Um, uh, hello Lily

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Grace. Um, uh, so yeah, so I've been working on that, making fancy electronics

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to help the live streams on Crowd Church.

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Now I can see why Sharon's been doing something else.

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Absolutely, I wouldn't be much help with that. So I went to in-person church

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this morning and then came came back, made the dinner for later, which we'll

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have when we get in. And then I've been and done a language swap with a lady who

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used to be a student of mine. So, yes.

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Cool.

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Slightly, slightly disappointing when I realise how good I'm not. But anyway.

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But it was, it was quite different to what I was doing. Yes, very different.

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That's why we didn't sort of see each other. Funny Budgie Antics is off to

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Blackpool next weekend. Fun. Yeah, yeah. My name Louise, laugh out loud. I quite

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like funny budgie antics, to be fair.

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You know my name, Louise, you might just get that one sticking now.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So yeah, warm welcome to everybody that is watching on

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the live stream. So let's jump into Pete's talk. We'll get straight into that

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talk and then we'll be back like a safe conversation street. So Pete's great. If

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you don't know Pete, I've known Pete for years. He's an absolute legend. I

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really enjoy hearing him talk, um, and so he's going to be helping us unpack the

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next sort of step in our series, Jesus the Revolutionary. So he's, um, picking

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that with us, and so we're going to be getting into that with him. After that,

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like I said, we've got Conversation Street. We'll get into your questions, your

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comments. I've got a whole bunch of questions based off of Pete's talk. Um, and

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so yeah, I'll— we'll see you in the comments, and we'll be back in, I guess— I

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don't know how long Pete's talking for, maybe 15-20 minutes. Uh, we'll be back

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for— say, how many? 20 minutes. So we'll be back after this with Pete

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Farrington.

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Hello, crowd! It's great to be here for the next talk in our series on Jesus the

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Revolutionary, and the title for my talk is When Your Past Follows You In. It's

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going to be an interesting one, and today we're going to be looking at a passage

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in the Bible in the Gospel of Luke. So I'm going to be reading in chapter 7,

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verses 36 through 50. Let's get stuck in. So one of the Pharisees asked him—

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that's asked Jesus— to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house and

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reclined at table. And behold, a woman of the city who was a sinner, when she

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learned that he was reclining at table in the Pharisee's house, brought an

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alabaster flask of ointment. And standing behind him at his feet weeping, she

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began to wet his feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head

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and kissed his feet and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee

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who had invited him saw this, He said to himself, "If this man were a prophet,

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he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for

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she is a sinner." And Jesus answering said to him, "Simon, I have something to

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say to you." And he answered, "Say it, Teacher." A certain moneylender had two

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debtors. One owed 500 denarii, and the other 50. When they could not pay, he

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cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more? Simon

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answered, "The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt." And he

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said to him, "You have judged rightly." Then turning toward the woman, he said

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to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for

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my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears, and wiped them with her hair.

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You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my

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feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with

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ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she

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loved much, but he who is forgiven little, loves little. And he said to her,

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your sins are forgiven. Then those who were at table with him began to say among

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themselves, who is this who even forgives sins? And he said to the woman, your

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faith has saved you. Go in peace. It's a fascinating story, this, and we see

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here that Jesus is the guest at a Pharisee's house. Now, the Pharisees were were

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the religious leaders at the time. So it'd be safe to assume that Jesus has been

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invited into quite an elite circle, but there is someone who's found her way

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there who shouldn't really be there. And Jesus's host Simon really takes

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exception to this and to what Jesus is allowing to happen. And Simon said in

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verse 37, 'If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him.' Now

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Simon assumes that being a prophet and knowing everything about someone's past

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must necessarily mean rejecting them. If Jesus were all-knowing, Simon is

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thinking, he would know that she does not and cannot belong here. Or to put it

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another way, the fact he is allowing all this to take place is proof he is not

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all-knowing. And on a human level, I think Simon is, is right, because we see

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this in our own experience, don't we? Like, if, if someone were to know your

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darkest secrets and the things that you are most ashamed of, and were to spend a

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day walking around in your head and know everything that you think, that

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couldn't possibly mean you could still find acceptance right? Or at least that

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would eventually run out. Like, we've probably all got a line beyond which we

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would be unwilling to step in extending invitation and showing acceptance. Like,

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at some point our willingness to forgive will eventually run out. But Simon here

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is caught thinking something that we are all too often guilty of, I think, and

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that is thinking that Jesus is, is just like us. Because Jesus knows her past

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completely and yet receives her completely. So everything in Simon is railing

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against what he's seeing, and to be honest, I get it. And I think a lot of

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Simon's and our wrestling with this is how we often— is due to how we often try

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to explain away the very concept of and our need for forgiveness, like when it

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comes to ourselves. And so that really determines everything when it comes to

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looking at others. And I think that we are primed to utterly reject the notion

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of forgiveness and without realising it, to completely redefine it for ourselves

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because of our preference for excuse-making and blame-shifting. C.S. Lewis

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explained this really well in, in an essay he wrote on forgiveness. He said

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this: The trouble is that what we call asking God's forgiveness very often

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really consists in asking God to accept our excuses. What leads us into this

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mistake is the fact that there usually is some amount of excuse, some

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extenuating circumstances. We are so very anxious to point these things out to

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God that we are apt to forget the very important thing. That is, the bit left

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over. The bit which excuses don't cover. The bit which is inexcusable, but not,

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thank God, unforgivable. And if we forget this, we shall go away imagining that

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we have repented and been forgiven, when all that has really happened is that we

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have satisfied ourselves with our own excuses. He goes on to say that we're only

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wasting our time talking about all the parts which can, we think, be excused.

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Because when you go to a doctor, you show him the bit of you that is wrong—say,

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a broken arm. It would be a mere waste of time to keep on explaining that your

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legs and throat and eyes are all right. You may be mistaken in thinking so,

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actually. And anyway, if they really are right, the doctor will know that. C.S.

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Lewis went on, a great deal of our anxiety to make excuses comes from not really

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believing in it, from thinking that God will not take us to himself again unless

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he is satisfied that some sort of case can be made out in our favour. But that is

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not forgiveness at all. Real forgiveness means looking steadily at the sin, the

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sin that is left over without any excuse after all allowances have been made,

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and seeing it in all its horror, dirt, meanness, and malice, and nevertheless

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being wholly reconciled to the man who has done it. Wow, this made so much sense

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to me when I first read it, and I think that Simon is thinking in terms of

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excuses, not forgiveness. Because he can see no excuses whatsoever that can be

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made for this woman and her past, and no justification at all for her presence

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amongst such company as himself. And I think that if we were to rewrite this

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passage and adapt it so that Jesus's response was according to modern

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sensibilities, it would very possibly sound something something like this:

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Simon, I have something to say to you. We must stop essentialising this woman

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through the harmful label of sinner. That language perpetuates stigma and

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reinforces exclusionary power structures. Instead, we should affirm her

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authentic lived experience and recognise that her behaviours emerged from a

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complex matrix of socioeconomic disadvantage. Patriarchal oppression, and

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structural inequity that constrained her agency. Calls to repentance merely

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perpetuate shame culture. What she needs is affirmation, empowerment, and the

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redistribution of social power. Simon, I invite you into a posture of radical

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allyship, where you decenter your privilege, examine your implicit biases, and

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participate in dismantling the systems that produced this harm. Now, in all

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seriousness, some of those things really may have been true of the culture at

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the time, really. And there usually are some extenuating circumstances, as C.S.

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Lewis said. But Jesus shows no interest at all in ruminating on excuses, and he

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wastes no time on that. Because, and this is so important I think for us in this

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day and age, doing so would have done nothing to solve her greatest problem.

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Jesus is instead concerned with, as C.S. Lewis put it, the bit which excuses

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don't cover and the sin that is left over without any excuse. And it's really

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interesting because Jesus himself acknowledges the reality of this woman's sin

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more fully than anyone else in the room. He responded to Simon's objections by

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telling a story, a parable. And I love how he begins, "Simon, I have something

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to say to you." You know at that point he's in trouble. But Jesus depicts this

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woman as the one in the parable for whom the moneylender cancelled the larger

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debt. And in verse 47, he refers to her sins, which are many. So while Simon is

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thinking to himself, Jesus, let me enlighten you as to what kind of woman this

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is that you're allowing to touch you. Well, Jesus is actually like, no, Simon, I

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know. I know her sins better than you do, and they are more than you know. So

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there really is no case to be made out in her favour. The narrator calls her a

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sinner right at the beginning. The Pharisee condemns her, a sinner in his

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thoughts. This assessment is devastating and it's unanimous, and even Jesus

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agrees. He never challenges it, and crucially, she didn't either. She didn't

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disagree. She never uttered a word, and, and her silence indicates that she has

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no objection. She didn't try to come up with excuses. She just saw herself

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rightly. She knew that she was a sinner, and she knew how much she needed

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forgiveness. "He who is forgiven little loves little," Jesus said. And then he

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asks Simon the killer question: "Which of them will love him more? Is it the one

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who owed 500 denarii?" Or the one who owed 50? Simon answered correctly, and he

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walked straight into the trap. Because the woman in the room is the one who

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loves extravagantly, and Simon is the one who didn't even offer water for Jesus'

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feet. Now, Jesus' point was not necessarily that the woman had sinned more than

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the Pharisee, or that the Pharisee only needed to be forgiven a little. He,

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like, he wasn't saying that it would cost less to save this woman than to say

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that— he wasn't saying that it would cost less to save the Pharisee, sorry, than

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to save the woman. But his point was that this woman loved much because she had

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recognised just how wretched her condition was. She knew how high her sins piled

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up, and she came knowing that Jesus was her only hope. She didn't claim, as we

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would today, I am enough. She just knew that she was profoundly inadequate. She

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knew that she was guilty, and she didn't deflect blame and point her finger at

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the system saying, "Jesus, my condition is really just the result of this unjust

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society I live in, and you don't know what my upbringing was like." No, she knew

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she was guilty and undeserving of forgiveness, and her silence said that it

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really was as bad as they said. And worse. There was no attempt to try and trick

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Jesus into thinking that there really wasn't that much to forgive or that there

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were just lots of excuses to accept. Jesus actually shared many parables in his

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ministry, and there's another one that I think sheds more light on this. In

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Luke, Jesus told a parable. This is Luke 18. He told this parable to some who

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trusted in themselves that they were righteous and treated others with contempt.

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Two men went up into the temple to pray, Jesus said, one a Pharisee and the

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other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: God, I

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thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or

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even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I

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get. But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to

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heaven, but beat his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me, a sinner! I tell

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you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For

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everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself

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will be exalted. We see in, in this story of the woman and the Pharisee, we see

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a man who— well, we see in this, in this parable, we see a man who had satisfied

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himself with his own excuses or with the kind of thinking that 'At least I'm not

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as bad as this other guy. At least I'm not like others.' And we see that

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juxtaposed with a man who, just like the woman weeping at Jesus' feet, is

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looking steadily, steadily at her sin and recognising it for what it is. Now, if

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you're anything like me, on the morning of an appointment at the dentist You'll

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brush your teeth, you'll brush your teeth? You'll brush your teeth twice as

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long as usual and maybe the night before you won't have any dessert, you know,

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as if that will make any difference whatsoever. But that's what I do, as if the

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dentist won't notice the massive cavity. Now I'm married to a dentist, so she's

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just like, Pete, do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I won't notice? But this

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woman in today's passage doesn't do that. She doesn't do that. She stares

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steadily at her sin and she doesn't try and cover it up. So what happens when

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all excuses have been taken into account, when all allowances have been made,

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and when your past follows you everywhere you go, just like this woman? And when

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the accusations abound, and worst of all, when the accusations are true and

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valid, and when your heart also condemns you, what do you do then? Well, one of

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the most mind-blowing things about the Gospel is that the one who knows you most

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intimately is the very one who will be your defence and your advocate if you

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humble yourself before him. Just like this woman did. I think one of the most

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precious verses in the Bible to me is found in 1 John 3:19-20. It says, "By this

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we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him. For

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whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart and he knows

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everything." The one who knows everything, your deepest, darkest secrets, will

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be your defence if you trust him. Says in Isaiah 42:3 about Jesus, this was a

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prophecy about Jesus, "A bruised reed he will not break, and a faintly burning

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wick he will not quench." That's what we see in this story, in the way that

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Jesus interacted with this woman. A bruised reed he will not break, a faintly

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burning wick he will not quench. Something that Spurgeon said about this passage

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was, he said that some like this Simon really struggle against the bounty of

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grace. Like, how could such a woman as she be permitted to draw so near to

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Christ? Certain people will demand, how should Jesus give to such unworthy ones

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such acceptance, such manifestations of himself, such privileges. Our Lord took

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upon himself to defend her, and therefore she might well afford to hold her

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tongue. So shall it be with you. If Satan accuse you and your enemies with

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loud-mouthed accusations cry out against you, you have an advocate with God the

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Father. Your advocate is Jesus Christ the righteous, who will certainly plead

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your cause and clear you. And that's what we see, Jesus pleading her cause and

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clearing her. In verse 50, he said, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace." And

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Jesus addresses her directly, publicly, and with so much dignity. The one who

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humbles himself will be exalted, we read in that other parable. And how she was

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exalted here, in a room full of people, people whispering about her, condemning

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her, he speaks to her and he leaves— she leaves with a pronouncement of peace

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from the mouth of God. And look how he sees and rewards every expression of her

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humility and contrition and gratitude and adoration, and how he exalts her. He

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praises her for how, even though his guest gave him no water, that she was the

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one who who wet, wet his feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. His

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guest gave him no kiss, but from the time he came in, she never ceased to kiss

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his feet. He says all of this publicly in front of everyone who had been

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condemning her, and she had no basis from which to make a defence, and she no

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longer even has a need to do so. She doesn't even utter a word because he is her

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defence. Because Jesus doesn't do the saving after we have done our part and

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after we've made ourselves look presentable and after we've patched ourselves up

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and brought ourselves into a savable state. Jesus said in Mark 2:17, "Those who

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are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call

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the righteous, but sinners." Jesus saves us at our worst. Another of my favourite

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passages in the Bible is found in Romans 5:6-8. For while we were still weak, at

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the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a

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righteous person, though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die.

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But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died

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for us. Stunning, stunning. I'm going to leave you with this. In Psalm 103:12,

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it says, as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our

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transgressions from us. So far does he remove our pasts from us. So in the

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gospel, the only distance that is greater than that between you and a

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righteousness of your own, or an innocence of your own, the only distance

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greater than that is the distance that God places between you and your sin. So

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thank you very much for listening, and I'll hand you back to Conversation

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Street.

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And there we go. Just had a blank screen. Um, thanks Pete, uh, as always, great

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talk. So much, isn't there, when Pete talks? It's just, yeah, you're just like,

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dude, this is insane. It's not insane, it's really good. I really enjoy it.

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I think he's got like one of the best vocabularies. I can't even say the word

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vocabulary. Um, but do you know what I mean? Like, he's got— he's such a great

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wordy person. I love it. He's just— yeah.

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So I really love the, the way that he rewrote what the conversation as it would

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have been. But at the same time, I had to focus quite hard because the

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vocabulary was quite extensive.

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Yeah, it is. Shall I read it again? Because I have it here. Okay. Uh, I'm, I'm

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all always a big fan of satire, um, in, in your Christian sermons. So, Simon, I

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have something to say to you. We must stop essentialising this woman through the

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harmful label of sinner. The language perpetuates stigma and reinforces

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exclusionary power structures. Instead, we should affirm her authentic lived

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experience and recognise that her behaviours emerged from a complex matrix of

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socioeconomic disadvantage, patriarchal oppression, and structural inequity that

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constrained her agency. I mean, this is just— it's poetry, isn't it?

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It did make me chuckle inside because it's like, I can just see somebody

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rewriting it like that.

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Yeah, my favourite line: calls to repentance merely perpetuate shame culture,

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which I thought was such a good line. Um, uh, what she needs is affirmation,

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empowerment, and the redistribution of social power. Simon, I invite you into a

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posture of radical allyship where you decenter your privilege, examine your

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implicit biases, and participate in dismantling the system that produced this

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harm.

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I, I—

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we could just talk about that all night. That, that single statement there wraps

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up so much of what's true in culture at the moment, isn't it?

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Yeah, we were just talking before, actually, um, me and Anna, before the

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livestream went on, because I used to go into schools and do assemblies many

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years ago. Um, we did Christian assemblies, so each time we went in, we would do

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a different section of the Bible, just an easy, like, memory verse, and we would

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teach the kids, and then we would teach them what it meant through games and,

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um, little, I don't know, illustrations and stories and that kind of thing. And

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one time we wanted to go and do the Four Points For those of you who don't know,

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the Four Points is a simple way of kind of explaining why Jesus came. So the

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Four Points are: God loves me, I have sinned, yeah, Jesus died for me, I need to

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decide to live for God. Yeah. And I realised this would be quite controversial,

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so I was like, we probably need to check that the schools are actually happy for

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us to do this. And I remember one school in particular was happy for us to do

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all of it apart from the line, "I have sinned." And it's like the rest kind of

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falls apart if you don't include that, because then if you don't have that,

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there's no need for Jesus to die. But it was that sense of we don't like to talk

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about sin, and in some ways it is kind of a religious word, isn't it? Yeah, I

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think there's, there's not really another word that necessarily in English gets

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the meaning across.

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But I think that that's maybe part of the problem, isn't it? That in our modern

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culture, we don't really fully understand what the word sin means, or we don't—

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it's quite a religious term, isn't it? Yeah. So if you haven't grown up in

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church, it's hard to— it is hard to kind of explain what sin is. But really,

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like, how it was always explained to me as growing up, growing up as a kid, was

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that it's not about like a really, like, crazy wild lifestyle necessarily, or

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being a really evil person, you know. Like, we, we think in those extreme terms,

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don't we? But actually, how it's explained to me is just living selfishly and

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anything that falls short of God's very, very best holy standard, which of

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course is all of us every day. Like, you know, we all you know, around this

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table, and, and, you know, other people around our lives, like, we all kind of

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think of ourselves as okay people, you know, professional, you know, quite good

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values, like, quite nice lives. Yeah, you know, we're good parents, we're nice

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people, like, we're, you know, we're good Christian people, we try to do the

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right thing. We're not perfect, but, but it is that lack of perfection, like,

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lack of hitting God's perfect standard, and And that, that for me is like when

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you actually strip back sin to not be like, oh, it's not, it's not saying people

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are evil or really bad. It's saying they're falling short of God's very perfect

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standard, which of course we all do because we're all a bit self-centred in the

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end. Yeah. So yeah, that, that's kind of, I think so much of that therapising,

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is that a word?

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It's a great word. Yeah. Yeah.

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Therapy and You know, it's not, it's not wrong. Like, all of that stuff that was

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said about patriarchal society and different things that can damage people, it's

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all true, isn't it? Like, the socioeconomic system does damage people, but it's

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not— even if you took all that away and fixed all of that and somebody had a

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much better quality of life and were less broken, it might take away their

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brokenness but doesn't take away their sinfulness. And that sinfulness is

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falling short of God's perfect standard. Yeah. So it's like, it still doesn't

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take away that because, look, we've got all those things. We're nice, middle

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class, well brought up, but we're still sinful. Yeah, like it doesn't fix that

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stuff, does it? No. So in a way I'm like, yes, yes, all that stuff's fine, but

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it doesn't fix the spiritual problem, which is our state before God. What do you

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think, Matt?

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I, I think it's a really interesting— I think it's a really interesting point,

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Anna. And again, this comes back to the C.S. Lewis quote that when we, um, what

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we're actually asking God to do when we ask for forgiveness is for God to accept

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our excuses. And I, again, just— it's such a wonderful thing. And I think I get

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that people go through stuff, right? I genuinely do. And I get that people go

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through really bad stuff, um, and we all know stories, maybe from our own lives,

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maybe from people that we know Um, and we all know the stories that come

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through. And so I don't— I mean, you know, Pete's not being flippant when he

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talks about these things at all. I think he has been, um, I think it is satire,

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I really do. But I think that, um, we've conditioned ourselves to go, I'm okay

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because of these excuses, right? So because I have this reason Therefore it's

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not my fault. Therefore I don't have to accept any form of responsibility. Yeah,

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for myself.

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I totally relate to this because, um, I think the one of the first times that I

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properly remember coming up against that, of, of having that revelation that I

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was using excuses not to take on my own things, I was like, I'm like this

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because of what they've done and not wanting to go actually, or not wanting to

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look at my own sin because I was too busy blaming someone else. But when you

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take the blame out of the way, it doesn't mean that that was okay. But I think

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this actually, this passage, it takes it seriously. It takes our own sin

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seriously, but it also takes seriously what was done to us. So it's like, you

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know, everyone will be called to account, I think, for what for their part. So

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if you have been wronged by somebody, they are responsible before God for that.

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Yeah, but we're responsible for our bit. And then, and I also relate really well

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to the bit where he was saying, when you know that you've been forgiven much,

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that you love much. Again, I think of times when I've been sort of had that real

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revelation of, oh, how dark my sin is. And again, I'm not talking big things,

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things that other people would possibly just brush off. But when you get a sense

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of that from God's point of view and you go, oh, actually this is really ugly,

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and then receiving that forgiveness, it's just like, oh wow, this is actually

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amazing to be fully seen but also to be fully loved at the same time. It's

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incredible.

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That's an interesting idea, isn't it? Or an interesting phrase, to be fully

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seen. And again, Pete used that, didn't he? To be fully seen, to be fully known,

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to fully understand everything, you know, the whole— all the reasons, um, to

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fully understand your history, what has happened to you, um, and what's happened

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maybe because of you. And I loved what Pete said at the end of that person who

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knows everything becomes your greatest advocate, even on the bits— well, on the

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bits that weren't your fault, but also on the bits that are, right? And, um,

409
00:35:46,886 --> 00:35:52,650
that's not just— and again, we have to be really careful, I think, don't we?

410
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:58,413
Because that's not to say if you have suffered something horrific, you were at

411
00:35:58,413 --> 00:36:04,177
blame in that one specific thing. That's not what we're saying at all. Um, but I

412
00:36:04,177 --> 00:36:09,941
think what we are saying is None of us are perfect, and we've all done stuff

413
00:36:09,941 --> 00:36:15,704
which the Bible calls sin, and we can't escape that. And we can, we can try and

414
00:36:15,704 --> 00:36:21,468
come up with the excuses for it, um, but ultimately you have to stand before

415
00:36:21,468 --> 00:36:27,232
Christ and go, I, I have to acknowledge my part in this whole life, not

416
00:36:27,232 --> 00:36:32,996
necessarily one event that— or multiple events that were horrific. I think it's

417
00:36:32,996 --> 00:36:38,760
just really important to be clear on that. Yeah, right.

418
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:44,045
Yeah, it reminds me as well of, um, Jesus. Obviously the, the Jewish people at

419
00:36:44,045 --> 00:36:49,130
the time were expecting this Messiah to come, and in their head the Messiah was

420
00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:54,215
gonna overthrow the Roman occupation or whoever they, you know, that was what at

421
00:36:54,215 --> 00:36:59,300
the time. And Jesus comes along and doesn't do that, but goes, hang on a minute,

422
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:04,384
I actually want to talk about you. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, obviously there's

423
00:37:04,384 --> 00:37:09,469
lots of bad things that happened within the Roman occupation, so it wasn't like

424
00:37:09,469 --> 00:37:14,554
he was saying that's okay, but he's like, actually, let's take it even to

425
00:37:14,554 --> 00:37:19,639
further down, and all of you are also sinners.

426
00:37:20,699 --> 00:37:25,176
Um, but it's like at the heart of Christianity really then, isn't it, that you

427
00:37:25,176 --> 00:37:29,652
know, that, that it's not enough to just change systems and structures and world

428
00:37:29,652 --> 00:37:34,128
leaders. You know, there's a few we'd probably like to switch around right now

429
00:37:34,128 --> 00:37:38,604
in the world, aren't there? But, but like, that in itself doesn't fix the

430
00:37:38,604 --> 00:37:43,080
problem because one imperfect, self-centred, egotistical, usually male but not

431
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,556
always, leader is, you know, and then the next empire comes in to replace it.

432
00:37:47,556 --> 00:37:52,033
Like removing empire and systems and doesn't fix the heart issue because it is a

433
00:37:52,033 --> 00:37:56,509
personal heart issue in every person. Because you can keep removing those

434
00:37:56,509 --> 00:38:00,985
things, can't you? But the core issue is inside me, inside you, inside each of

435
00:38:00,985 --> 00:38:05,461
us. And Jesus— it's interesting that Jesus came and he was like exactly that. I

436
00:38:05,461 --> 00:38:09,937
don't want to talk about the big systems. I want to talk about your heart and

437
00:38:09,937 --> 00:38:14,413
your heart and each of our hearts. Yeah, because that's the only thing that

438
00:38:14,413 --> 00:38:18,889
changes the world.

439
00:38:18,889 --> 00:38:21,376
Yeah, if our hearts are right, then we will want to change the systems. Yeah.

440
00:38:21,376 --> 00:38:23,863
Yeah, if our hearts aren't right, it's quite easy just to keep within those

441
00:38:23,863 --> 00:38:26,349
systems.

442
00:38:26,409 --> 00:38:29,625
But also, the only way that a system will change is everybody's heart is changed

443
00:38:29,625 --> 00:38:32,840
towards God in that system.

444
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,856
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. Uh, Alicia has put in the comments,

445
00:38:37,856 --> 00:38:42,271
I struggle with the idea that I sin because of X or Y, but X and Y isn't the

446
00:38:42,271 --> 00:38:46,688
point. The sin is the point. Um, which is very— I, I would agree. Um, actually,

447
00:38:46,688 --> 00:38:51,103
it is the, the sin which is the point. What do you think to the— go on, you're

448
00:38:51,103 --> 00:38:55,519
going to say something.

449
00:38:55,679 --> 00:38:59,968
I was just going to say, I think the whole idea of struggling with recognising

450
00:38:59,968 --> 00:39:04,257
our own sin and accepting forgiveness, it's sort of like what it leaves us with

451
00:39:04,257 --> 00:39:08,545
is a sort of cheap grace. Like, if we can't fully recognise our sinful nature,

452
00:39:08,545 --> 00:39:12,834
then we can't fully accept— yeah, like, receive God's forgiveness and God's

453
00:39:12,834 --> 00:39:17,122
grace. And so the whole thing is like, it's like cheap. It's a cheap version.

454
00:39:17,122 --> 00:39:21,411
Like, if we don't— yeah, it just feels like the— like you say, Sharon, the whole

455
00:39:21,411 --> 00:39:25,699
thing falls apart.

456
00:39:25,860 --> 00:39:30,283
Yeah, that's such a— it's such a— that the, the cheap grace idea is so powerful

457
00:39:30,283 --> 00:39:34,706
because actually this is what we see, isn't it, in the, in the parable, um, with

458
00:39:34,706 --> 00:39:39,130
Jesus, uh, and asking Simon, you know, the 50 versus 500 denarii Um, who's

459
00:39:39,130 --> 00:39:43,553
forgiven more? And he walks straight into it, doesn't he? He goes, oh, and he—

460
00:39:43,553 --> 00:39:47,976
and then Jesus turns around to him and says, yeah, but you didn't give me a

461
00:39:47,976 --> 00:39:52,400
drink, which is what he should have done. Yeah, with hospitality. There was no

462
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,823
kiss, and he didn't give him water for his feet, right? So the things he should

463
00:39:56,823 --> 00:40:01,246
have done as a religious leader, he didn't do because he was too busy condemning

464
00:40:01,246 --> 00:40:05,670
somebody who was doing the things that he should have been doing, right?

465
00:40:05,860 --> 00:40:09,896
It does make you wonder as well, because there's a good host— because it sounds

466
00:40:09,896 --> 00:40:13,932
like they were already there, so Jesus had arrived before she came in, so he

467
00:40:13,932 --> 00:40:17,967
should have done those things. So it's like, why didn't he? Maybe it was out of

468
00:40:17,967 --> 00:40:22,003
a sense of pride or a bit like snubbing him a little bit, or— yeah, so there was

469
00:40:22,003 --> 00:40:26,039
something going on there that wasn't great already.

470
00:40:26,539 --> 00:40:32,045
Yeah, it's a good point, isn't it? But again, going back to the, the point

471
00:40:32,045 --> 00:40:37,552
though, that Simon was experiencing a cheap grace, right? The back to your, your

472
00:40:37,552 --> 00:40:43,057
phrase, Anna, whereas this woman who we don't know who she is. I mean, I know

473
00:40:43,057 --> 00:40:48,563
that there's some theory that maybe it's Mary Magdalene. I would argue that it

474
00:40:48,563 --> 00:40:54,070
isn't, um, not that we will form a theology out of it, but, um, there's, you

475
00:40:54,070 --> 00:40:59,576
know, this, this woman has been forgiven much, and she has experienced a depth

476
00:40:59,576 --> 00:41:05,081
of grace. She didn't argue with the— this is another point that came out— she

477
00:41:05,081 --> 00:41:10,588
didn't argue with the fact that she was called a sinner. The narrator, Simon,

478
00:41:10,588 --> 00:41:16,094
and Jesus all agree that her sins are many. I mean, for, you know, and she never

479
00:41:16,094 --> 00:41:21,599
disagrees with that. She never excuses herself. She, she never— as to quote, uh,

480
00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:27,106
Pete— she never says, 'I'm enough.' Um, and she experiences a profound grace as

481
00:41:27,106 --> 00:41:32,612
a result, right? And I think It's a really interesting point, isn't it, that

482
00:41:32,612 --> 00:41:38,117
you— to experience God's grace like that, I think you have got to come to a

483
00:41:38,117 --> 00:41:43,624
place where there is this sort of revelation or this understanding of the sin in

484
00:41:43,624 --> 00:41:49,130
our own heart, right?

485
00:41:49,619 --> 00:41:52,914
Yeah, I've got— I've written down a few ideas on different ways that we can

486
00:41:52,914 --> 00:41:56,210
respond when we— because I think we all notice that sin in our own lives,

487
00:41:56,210 --> 00:41:59,505
although Although I would say sometimes I think people can feel guilty when

488
00:41:59,505 --> 00:42:02,799
actually then they're not guilty. You know, if you've been trained to feel like

489
00:42:02,799 --> 00:42:06,094
everything's your fault, there can be this false guilt that actually doesn't

490
00:42:06,094 --> 00:42:09,389
belong.

491
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:10,469
Well, that's the other side of it, isn't it?

492
00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:14,972
Yeah, but I think there is that sense of we, we don't always even meet our own

493
00:42:14,972 --> 00:42:19,385
standards, let alone God's standards, and we know that we don't. So we've

494
00:42:19,385 --> 00:42:23,798
either— we've got choices. We can deny that there's anything wrong and just like

495
00:42:23,798 --> 00:42:28,211
push it aside. We can make excuses like Pete talked about, or we can change the

496
00:42:28,211 --> 00:42:32,625
rules. So it can be a case of like, I wonder whether that's why we get, you

497
00:42:32,625 --> 00:42:37,038
know, oh, it's my truth. We're the ones that make the rules so that we can kind

498
00:42:37,038 --> 00:42:41,451
of fit the standard, whereas if we had to go by God's rules, it's like we fall

499
00:42:41,451 --> 00:42:45,864
apart. Yeah. So there are three like not so helpful choices that I think we

500
00:42:45,864 --> 00:42:50,277
have. Yeah. But then the one that we have here is actually to recognise it, sit

501
00:42:50,277 --> 00:42:54,690
in it, and then receive that grace. Yeah, yeah.

502
00:42:55,639 --> 00:43:00,467
Do you feel like part of the reason then that Simon is kind of a bit judgy, you

503
00:43:00,467 --> 00:43:05,294
know, like we— it's easy, we can all be judgmental at times, but yeah, part of

504
00:43:05,294 --> 00:43:10,122
the reason that he's so judgmental of this woman when she comes in and she has

505
00:43:10,122 --> 00:43:14,949
this extravagant kind of lavish sort of, um, she just serves Jesus, doesn't she?

506
00:43:14,949 --> 00:43:19,776
She's like at his feet and she's like lavishly gifts her like love on him, and

507
00:43:19,776 --> 00:43:24,604
she's like not holding back. And he's kind of a little bit like scornful of it.

508
00:43:24,604 --> 00:43:29,431
Yeah, I think that's kind of part of the cheap grace thing as well. Like, yeah,

509
00:43:29,431 --> 00:43:34,258
it's almost like because he hasn't fully engaged with the process of

510
00:43:34,258 --> 00:43:39,086
understanding his own sin and fully accepting forgiveness and his need for God's

511
00:43:39,086 --> 00:43:43,913
mercy, he's not fully— he can't extend it to anyone else. So I think this whole

512
00:43:43,913 --> 00:43:48,741
thing of being able to accept and, and see your own sinfulness and then accept

513
00:43:48,741 --> 00:43:53,568
forgiveness also allows you to change your posture to other people. Like, yeah,

514
00:43:53,568 --> 00:43:58,395
yeah, like you said, like, those who've been forgiven much love much. Yeah. Or

515
00:43:58,395 --> 00:44:03,223
something like that, isn't it? And yeah, and I think he's got this quite harsh,

516
00:44:03,223 --> 00:44:08,050
ungracious view of this woman who's come in, very broken woman, and he's quite

517
00:44:08,050 --> 00:44:12,877
scornful of her. And I think that's part of the symptom of not really seeing

518
00:44:12,877 --> 00:44:17,705
your own sin. Yeah. And having that process yourself. And so, yeah, it's all one

519
00:44:17,705 --> 00:44:22,532
and the same, really. Like, it, it's, it prevents you receiving forgiveness, but

520
00:44:22,532 --> 00:44:27,360
then it also prevents you extending it to other people too. Yeah. Yeah.

521
00:44:28,019 --> 00:44:32,739
I think it's the kind of the difference between religion, where you're trying to

522
00:44:32,739 --> 00:44:37,460
do all the right things to make you feel like you're a good person, or actually

523
00:44:37,460 --> 00:44:42,179
that relationship with God through Jesus, where you recognise your own sin and

524
00:44:42,179 --> 00:44:46,900
shortcomings and receive God's grace. For one, you get more judgmental. The

525
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:51,619
other, yeah, you can be more gracious. Yeah, like you just said.

526
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:56,451
Well, there it's true, isn't it? Because that— he who has been forgiven much

527
00:44:56,451 --> 00:45:00,703
loves much, right? And if you— and that's— here's the thing, that's not because

528
00:45:00,703 --> 00:45:04,955
you've committed— if you've been forgiven much, I think it's because you've

529
00:45:04,955 --> 00:45:09,207
acknowledged how much sin you have. And the person that's been forgiven little

530
00:45:09,207 --> 00:45:13,460
is not because they're living a better life, it's just because they're a lot

531
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:17,711
more closed off to the sin that they've committed. Yeah, right. And I think—

532
00:45:17,711 --> 00:45:21,963
here's my observation— we live in a culture that tries very hard to not accept

533
00:45:21,963 --> 00:45:26,215
any kind of blame whatsoever, right? We've almost been conditioned— unless you

534
00:45:26,215 --> 00:45:30,467
work in insurance industry or legal, because where there's a blameless client,

535
00:45:30,467 --> 00:45:34,719
where there's a blame— where they— again, that's not your fault though, is it?

536
00:45:35,050 --> 00:45:37,739
No, no, no, there's always no, no fault.

537
00:45:37,789 --> 00:45:42,969
Yeah, it's always somebody else's fault, so we can sue them. Yeah. Um, but

538
00:45:42,969 --> 00:45:48,150
because we've been conditioned not to accept any kind of blame, I would argue to

539
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:53,329
say that one of the most beautiful things about Christianity is getting to a

540
00:45:53,329 --> 00:45:58,509
place where you fully face that blame. And it's a really hard thing to do, but

541
00:45:58,509 --> 00:46:03,690
actually when you do, that's when you experience being forgiven much, right?

542
00:46:03,690 --> 00:46:08,869
It's, it's, it leads to something extraordinarily wonderful when you acknowledge

543
00:46:08,869 --> 00:46:14,049
that sin. Whereas if you don't, and if you're closed off to it, and we do this

544
00:46:14,049 --> 00:46:19,230
blame other people, give excuses, we don't experience the fullness of God's

545
00:46:19,230 --> 00:46:24,409
grace. And I think we miss out as a result, right?

546
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:29,010
We've got a question here. It says, might sound a bit stupid, but any advice on

547
00:46:29,010 --> 00:46:33,059
actually accepting God's forgiveness? That is totally not a stupid question.

548
00:46:33,059 --> 00:46:37,110
That's a very good question. I'll throw that one out there.

549
00:46:38,889 --> 00:46:43,786
Any advice? Yes, um, always. I think first, you— to accept God's forgiveness,

550
00:46:43,786 --> 00:46:48,682
you have to be willing, like we've just said, to accept, um, or to take

551
00:46:48,682 --> 00:46:53,579
responsibility for your— the state of your heart, for your own sin, right? And

552
00:46:53,579 --> 00:46:58,475
be totally open and blunt about that and No holds barred. We're not looking for

553
00:46:58,475 --> 00:47:03,372
things, right? The Holy Spirit will bring things up. It's not like you need to

554
00:47:03,372 --> 00:47:08,268
go back to your childhood and repent of, you know, ask God's forgiveness for

555
00:47:08,268 --> 00:47:13,165
licking your mate's ice cream. It's, it's not— do you know what I mean? It's not

556
00:47:13,165 --> 00:47:18,061
that kind of thing unless God shows you. Unless God shows you. Yeah, yeah.

557
00:47:18,061 --> 00:47:22,958
That's the beautiful thing. The Holy Spirit sort of puts that on your heart,

558
00:47:22,958 --> 00:47:27,854
right? And I think if you're not a Christian, you— one of the things you, you do

559
00:47:27,854 --> 00:47:32,750
when you, when you become a Christian is you face— actually, you go to this idea

560
00:47:32,750 --> 00:47:37,647
that actually I have sinned, and therefore, you know, I need to come to Christ

561
00:47:37,647 --> 00:47:42,543
and ask forgiveness. And all through your walk with God, there will be occasions

562
00:47:42,543 --> 00:47:47,440
when that happens. When that does happen, when God illuminates something, you

563
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,336
get it before God there and then. I think I would probably talk to— depending on

564
00:47:52,336 --> 00:47:57,233
what it is, talk to a trusted counselor or friend, um, or pastor or whoever, um,

565
00:47:57,233 --> 00:48:02,129
about it. Bring accountability. I think when it comes to those kind of things

566
00:48:02,129 --> 00:48:07,026
sin left in darkness is never great, but when you talk about it with other

567
00:48:07,026 --> 00:48:11,922
people, it brings it into the light. And then, like you said earlier on, I think

568
00:48:11,922 --> 00:48:16,819
it's, it's really easy with religion to live a shameful life, in a life full of

569
00:48:16,819 --> 00:48:21,715
shame, um, is what I'm saying. I mean, it's like you have been forgiven and

570
00:48:21,715 --> 00:48:26,611
there is a grace The grace doesn't leave you the way you were. It points to who

571
00:48:26,611 --> 00:48:31,508
he is, and it transforms you into what you, you are. And I think we find it

572
00:48:31,508 --> 00:48:36,404
really easy to live under the guilt and the shame of past sins. And so you find

573
00:48:36,404 --> 00:48:41,301
yourself going through this repeat, rinse and repeat cycle of constantly asking

574
00:48:41,301 --> 00:48:46,197
God to forgive you for the same things, um, and it, it can bring that guilt and

575
00:48:46,197 --> 00:48:51,094
shame. And I think that's I think that's one of the side effects. I think on, on

576
00:48:51,094 --> 00:48:55,990
one hand, a lot of people need to experience more shame. I mean, they ain't no

577
00:48:55,990 --> 00:49:00,887
shame in your game, as they say. Um, but on the other hand, I think once you

578
00:49:00,887 --> 00:49:05,783
have brought it to God and he has forgiven you, there is no need to feel shame

579
00:49:05,783 --> 00:49:10,679
about that. And we don't need to live these lives full of shame.

580
00:49:11,780 --> 00:49:16,569
I find it really useful in that the Bible often talks about sin in terms of

581
00:49:16,569 --> 00:49:21,358
debt, as if like a money debt, although obviously it's not money. So either when

582
00:49:21,358 --> 00:49:26,148
we've been sinned against, it's like someone owes us a debt, or if we sin

583
00:49:26,148 --> 00:49:30,937
against God, it's like we owe God. And so I found it useful to actually write

584
00:49:30,937 --> 00:49:35,727
out the stuff that the Holy Spirit's bringing up. Yeah. And almost like, um,

585
00:49:35,727 --> 00:49:40,516
what's it, like an accounting sheet of like, yeah, this, this, this, and then

586
00:49:40,516 --> 00:49:45,306
pray through each one and just like, ask God for help, because we do need help

587
00:49:45,306 --> 00:49:50,095
with this sometimes, don't we? And the passage that, um, oh, it was read out

588
00:49:50,095 --> 00:49:54,885
about why we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Yeah, I found that really

589
00:49:54,885 --> 00:49:59,674
helpful in terms of, okay, Jesus died for me even before this happened. So it's

590
00:49:59,674 --> 00:50:04,464
like he, he's fully aware of all that. And so to pray through each one of the

591
00:50:04,464 --> 00:50:09,253
things on my list And then as I've prayed through them, that it's like actively

592
00:50:09,253 --> 00:50:14,043
choosing to receive that forgiveness. Because you can, in your head, you can

593
00:50:14,043 --> 00:50:18,832
have like a block up, like, I can't receive that. It's like making that choice,

594
00:50:18,832 --> 00:50:23,622
okay, I receive that, and then crossing it off the bit of paper, like, okay,

595
00:50:23,622 --> 00:50:28,411
that debt's paid. And like, then thanking God, okay, Jesus, I accept. Like,

596
00:50:28,411 --> 00:50:33,201
actually speaking out loud, going, Jesus, I, I, um, confess I've done this. I, I

597
00:50:33,201 --> 00:50:37,990
receive your forgiveness for this, and I accept that you've washed that

598
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:42,780
completely clean. And I think that's really important.

599
00:50:43,070 --> 00:50:47,092
Um, it's a really important point to make that you do that process and then it's

600
00:50:47,092 --> 00:50:51,114
done. It's like a once-and-done thing. You don't have to keep revisiting or keep

601
00:50:51,114 --> 00:50:55,135
feeling bad. And if you do find yourself in that cycle, then talk to someone

602
00:50:55,135 --> 00:50:59,157
about it because you need to deal with that. That's not where God wants you

603
00:50:59,157 --> 00:51:03,179
going round and round and round the same sins.

604
00:51:03,610 --> 00:51:07,293
I think that's another reason I find it helpful to have that bit of paper,

605
00:51:07,293 --> 00:51:10,977
because yeah, if you do remember it again, you can go, hang on a minute, now

606
00:51:10,977 --> 00:51:14,661
I've, I've prayed through that one, that one is cancelled, that debt's

607
00:51:14,661 --> 00:51:18,345
cancelled, I don't owe that anymore. And then you can— and, and I think if

608
00:51:18,345 --> 00:51:22,028
you're someone who's used to just going round and round, though, I've not been

609
00:51:22,028 --> 00:51:25,712
forgiven, it can take a while for your brain to just be like you know, to keep

610
00:51:25,712 --> 00:51:29,396
choosing to believe that you've been forgiven. Um, so that can take a bit of

611
00:51:29,396 --> 00:51:33,079
practice, I think.

612
00:51:33,559 --> 00:51:38,945
Yeah, but you do get there, don't you? Yeah, you do. Uh, Stephanie has put in

613
00:51:38,945 --> 00:51:44,331
the comments, are we missing how radical Jesus was being culturally? Simon was

614
00:51:44,331 --> 00:51:49,717
absolutely right to say what he did. Yes, he was. Um, Jesus is rejecting

615
00:51:49,717 --> 00:51:55,102
everything the religion of the day said was important. Is he rejecting it, or is

616
00:51:55,102 --> 00:52:00,488
he, is he giving a greater standard maybe, or he's bringing a greater grace

617
00:52:00,488 --> 00:52:05,874
perhaps, um, replacing, replacing it maybe? But what do you think to Stephanie's

618
00:52:05,874 --> 00:52:11,260
comment? Are we missing how radical Jesus was being?

619
00:52:12,489 --> 00:52:17,507
I mean, yeah, Jesus was totally radical, and that's the whole point of this

620
00:52:17,507 --> 00:52:22,524
series, isn't it? Like, Jesus is a revolutionary. He he took what the religious

621
00:52:22,524 --> 00:52:27,541
structures of the time did, and he said, "No, no, no, that's not how it works.

622
00:52:27,541 --> 00:52:32,559
I've got something so much better for you," which is this radical kind of

623
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:37,576
forgiveness. If you confess your sins, you're forgiven. You know, and there's

624
00:52:37,576 --> 00:52:42,593
not this constant need to keep fulfilling the law and requirements. You know,

625
00:52:42,593 --> 00:52:47,610
the rules, keep following the rules, keep being good enough out of your own

626
00:52:47,610 --> 00:52:52,628
strength. He blows that out of the water and says, No, no, you'll never be good

627
00:52:52,628 --> 00:52:57,645
enough in your own strength. You've gotta ask me for the help. Give me your sin,

628
00:52:57,645 --> 00:53:02,662
ask me for the help, let me kind of take you to where you can never take

629
00:53:02,662 --> 00:53:07,679
yourself, which is to be free.

630
00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:13,541
Um, that's a beautiful thing, isn't it? Because again, when you look at the

631
00:53:13,541 --> 00:53:18,532
story with the— with what the woman's doing, um The one thing I didn't really

632
00:53:18,532 --> 00:53:23,524
touch on it, but it's worth understanding, um, the one thing that's one of the

633
00:53:23,524 --> 00:53:28,515
things that's really important in this story is the hair detail, right? Um, I'm

634
00:53:28,515 --> 00:53:33,506
not going to make any jokes about women and hair, but, um, the hair detail is

635
00:53:33,506 --> 00:53:38,498
genuinely scandalous. A respectable woman in that culture kept her hair bound up

636
00:53:38,498 --> 00:53:43,489
in public. Letting it down was intimate, reserved for the home. And so she ends

637
00:53:43,489 --> 00:53:48,480
up wiping his feet with her loosed hair. Um, and this is far bolder and more

638
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,472
socially shocking than it reads to us, right? And this is a really interesting

639
00:53:53,472 --> 00:53:58,463
point. So back to your point about how radical Jesus is being— actually, this

640
00:53:58,463 --> 00:54:03,454
woman's also been a little bit radical, and Jesus is not responding to the fact

641
00:54:03,454 --> 00:54:08,445
she's let her hair down. Again, going back to Stephanie's point about not

642
00:54:08,445 --> 00:54:13,437
dialing into what people thought was important at the time, but genuinely

643
00:54:13,437 --> 00:54:18,428
getting to the fact that this woman was doing something because she had

644
00:54:18,428 --> 00:54:23,420
experienced the grace of God that day.

645
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,513
It reminds me of that verse in the Bible that says, um, you know, humans,

646
00:54:28,513 --> 00:54:33,187
mankind, look at the outside appearance, but God looks at the heart. Yeah. And,

647
00:54:33,187 --> 00:54:37,861
and I think that's what Jesus was doing in this moment. Like, everyone else in

648
00:54:37,861 --> 00:54:42,535
the room was like, that's so culturally shocking, she's overstepped the line,

649
00:54:42,535 --> 00:54:47,209
women shouldn't behave like that, especially not in those days. It's like, you

650
00:54:47,209 --> 00:54:51,883
know, I've read that it's equivalent of like kind of, you know, being very, very

651
00:54:51,883 --> 00:54:56,556
forward with a married man or something in front of a big group of people. And

652
00:54:56,556 --> 00:55:01,230
yet Jesus doesn't look at the outside appearance. He sees straight to a heart.

653
00:55:01,230 --> 00:55:05,904
And a heart is right. Like, their actions might seem culturally shocking at the

654
00:55:05,904 --> 00:55:10,578
time, but her heart was right for Jesus, and that's what he saw. So I think

655
00:55:10,578 --> 00:55:15,252
that's really interesting. It's like that dynamic of everyone else is like, but

656
00:55:15,252 --> 00:55:19,926
that's not what culture or religiosity says we should do. Yeah, but Jesus sees

657
00:55:19,926 --> 00:55:24,599
her heart is like just so in love with him and wants to—

658
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:30,856
and that's, that's a beautiful thing. Yeah, that's a— it's a lovely thing as

659
00:55:30,856 --> 00:55:35,852
well, isn't it? It just, it's like Jesus was okay with it, you know. Um, Alicia

660
00:55:35,852 --> 00:55:40,847
said, uh, you've articulated something I've been struggling to put into words. I

661
00:55:40,847 --> 00:55:45,844
frequently ask for forgiveness for the same sins, especially during a depressive

662
00:55:45,844 --> 00:55:50,840
episode where self-hatred gets strong. Any thoughts on that?

663
00:55:52,590 --> 00:55:57,255
Um, well, she said that what we talked about kind of spoke to that already, so

664
00:55:57,255 --> 00:56:01,920
It's interesting, the self-hatred comment jumps out to me.

665
00:56:02,190 --> 00:56:07,202
Yeah, in the sense that, um, I— again, I think that Romans 8 says there's no

666
00:56:07,202 --> 00:56:12,215
condemnation. We use this a lot in church, right? There is therefore now no

667
00:56:12,215 --> 00:56:17,228
condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. It's like a chapter after, um,

668
00:56:17,228 --> 00:56:22,240
where Paul says, um, you know, we've all sinned, as we all fall short of the

669
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:27,253
glory of God. Um, and he goes on to say He talks about it like a— he calls it

670
00:56:27,253 --> 00:56:32,266
the body of death. Um, in Romans 7, there's this sort of really fascinating

671
00:56:32,266 --> 00:56:37,278
language with how Paul describes this sort of life being trapped in this sort of

672
00:56:37,278 --> 00:56:42,291
circle of sin, for want of a better expression. And he calls it a body of death.

673
00:56:42,291 --> 00:56:47,304
And right at the end of chapter 7, he says, who's going to rescue me, um, from

674
00:56:47,304 --> 00:56:52,316
this body of death? And he says, um, thanks be to our Lord and Savior Jesus

675
00:56:52,316 --> 00:56:57,329
Christ. And he goes, therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in

676
00:56:57,329 --> 00:57:02,342
Christ Jesus. And I think there's a difference between conviction and

677
00:57:02,342 --> 00:57:07,354
condemnation, right? So the Holy Spirit can convict you of your sin, in which

678
00:57:07,354 --> 00:57:12,367
case my advice is repent of it, don't try and hide from it. Easier said than

679
00:57:12,367 --> 00:57:17,380
done. But, and to repent, by the way, just means to turn around, just means

680
00:57:17,380 --> 00:57:22,392
confess it and don't do it anymore, just, you know, change your behaviour. But

681
00:57:22,392 --> 00:57:27,405
there So there's a difference between conviction and condemnation. Condemnation

682
00:57:27,405 --> 00:57:32,418
comes from, you know, a source that is pure evil. And I think that loathing,

683
00:57:32,418 --> 00:57:37,430
that self-hatred, that condemnation, that shame never comes from God. There's a

684
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:42,443
really interesting verse, uh, that says it is the goodness or the kindness of

685
00:57:42,443 --> 00:57:47,456
God that leads you to repentance. Not the anger of God, not the God sitting down

686
00:57:47,456 --> 00:57:52,468
judging you with the finger. And it is the goodness, it is the kindness of God

687
00:57:52,468 --> 00:57:57,481
that when you understand that, it leads you to this place where you can repent.

688
00:57:57,481 --> 00:58:02,494
Repent, turn around, to acknowledge your sin, to turn around from it, to not do

689
00:58:02,494 --> 00:58:07,506
it anymore, to change your ways, to change your behaviour, and to put that to one

690
00:58:07,506 --> 00:58:12,519
side because you want to do something which pleases God. You want to do

691
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:17,532
something which is more fulfilling. And so we, we do that. Um, but you're right,

692
00:58:17,532 --> 00:58:22,544
you can get caught up in this whole cycle of self-hatred, um, and condemnation

693
00:58:22,544 --> 00:58:27,557
if you're not careful. And so I think it's important to acknowledge that and

694
00:58:27,557 --> 00:58:32,570
acknowledge that's not from God.

695
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:37,592
Yeah, I think for all of us that our mind is a battlefield, um, and that can be

696
00:58:37,592 --> 00:58:42,024
made worse if you do suffer from depression for whatever reason. Um, but the

697
00:58:42,024 --> 00:58:46,456
Bible again talks about being transformed by the renewing of your mind, and

698
00:58:46,456 --> 00:58:50,888
that's kind of like an active— like, um, if a thought comes into our heads, we

699
00:58:50,888 --> 00:58:55,320
don't have to believe it, although it can be very hard not to. And we can be

700
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,752
like, okay, this thought's come in, but I recognise that's not true. And even

701
00:58:59,752 --> 00:59:04,184
though I might feel it's true right now, I'm going to reject that thought and

702
00:59:04,184 --> 00:59:08,617
I'm going to accept God's truth. Yeah. And I think over time your feelings can

703
00:59:08,617 --> 00:59:13,049
change with that. Might not be instant. I've definitely had times where my

704
00:59:13,049 --> 00:59:17,481
feelings have said one thing and I've been like, hang on a minute, that's not

705
00:59:17,481 --> 00:59:21,913
actually true what I'm feeling and thinking. But to get me from where that's my

706
00:59:21,913 --> 00:59:26,345
normal state to the normal state being like, oh yeah, I actually can feel this

707
00:59:26,345 --> 00:59:30,777
now, sometimes can take a very long time. Um, so yeah, I just wouldn't Don't

708
00:59:30,777 --> 00:59:35,210
give up.

709
00:59:36,579 --> 00:59:39,175
Very good. Well, I'm aware of time, ladies. Uh, feels like we're just getting

710
00:59:39,175 --> 00:59:41,769
warmed up in our conversation.

711
00:59:41,820 --> 00:59:45,239
Yeah, there's so much more I've got in my head, but yeah.

712
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:48,105
So, uh, quickly in closing then. Well, let's do that. Any final thoughts,

713
00:59:48,105 --> 00:59:50,170
comments from you?

714
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:52,219
I just need to gather my thoughts.

715
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:54,019
Okay, I'll go to Anna first.

716
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,965
Um, I just think, yeah, don't— for me, that this whole area is like not about

717
00:59:59,965 --> 01:00:04,571
going searching for stuff. They don't go picking back through all your history

718
01:00:04,571 --> 01:00:09,176
in the past, but just as you said, like when you're praying, when you're

719
01:00:09,176 --> 01:00:13,782
spending time with God, if the Holy Spirit, um, brings something up in God's

720
01:00:13,782 --> 01:00:18,387
presence or gives you a little nudge and you— something drops into your mind,

721
01:00:18,387 --> 01:00:22,993
then go with that. But don't start digging all your past up just for the sake of

722
01:00:22,993 --> 01:00:27,598
it. I suppose that was the only other point I wanted to make. Yeah, let it be

723
01:00:27,598 --> 01:00:32,204
God-led, otherwise it is just really you revisiting. Yeah, your own past over

724
01:00:32,204 --> 01:00:36,809
and over.

725
01:00:37,469 --> 01:00:38,610
Very good. Very true.

726
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,550
Yeah, a little one. So one of the things I like about this story is that Jesus

727
01:00:43,550 --> 01:00:48,220
took the woman's shame. So see, when she came in with her hair down, that was

728
01:00:48,220 --> 01:00:52,890
seen as shameful, and all the— her actions were seen as shameful. And so all the

729
01:00:52,890 --> 01:00:57,559
crowd would have been focused on her as, this is a shameful woman. But rather

730
01:00:57,559 --> 01:01:02,230
than Jesus joining in and going, oh yeah, she's wrong, and keeping the shame on

731
01:01:02,230 --> 01:01:06,900
her, he deflects it and takes it onto himself by treating her very differently

732
01:01:06,900 --> 01:01:11,570
and actually treating her with respect. And yeah, actually going, actually,

733
01:01:11,570 --> 01:01:16,240
she's got it right. Um, yeah. And I think there's lots of different stories

734
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:20,910
where that happens, where the crowd are on an individual, like the same as

735
01:01:20,910 --> 01:01:25,580
Zacchaeus and others, where— yeah, and then Jesus just shifts their thinking and

736
01:01:25,580 --> 01:01:30,250
takes the focus off them and puts it all on himself. And that's what we see him

737
01:01:30,250 --> 01:01:34,920
do on the cross, isn't it? Yeah, he takes the shame. So if you are feeling

738
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,590
shame, you don't— you don't need to be carrying that. It's like that's what

739
01:01:39,590 --> 01:01:44,260
Jesus came to take from us. Yeah, very good. Very good.

740
01:01:44,969 --> 01:01:47,539
Yeah, I think I— my final comment would be this: be radical.

741
01:01:48,250 --> 01:01:50,039
Um, in a good way. In a good way.

742
01:01:50,110 --> 01:01:55,146
Yeah, I just— in the sense that we see Jesus, who is a radical Savior and

743
01:01:55,146 --> 01:02:00,183
radically forgiving, radically accepting, radically restoration. Grace is a

744
01:02:00,183 --> 01:02:05,219
radical concept. It's all very, very radical. But the woman was radical in the

745
01:02:05,219 --> 01:02:10,256
story. She was radical in the sense there was no holds barred, there was no

746
01:02:10,256 --> 01:02:15,292
excuses, there was no blame. There was just her and Jesus. And in this beautiful

747
01:02:15,292 --> 01:02:20,329
moment, she experiences grace because of her radical honesty. Um, and I would

748
01:02:20,329 --> 01:02:25,365
just be radical, um, and you'd experience God's grace. Because I love what Pete

749
01:02:25,365 --> 01:02:30,402
said, um, the guy that sees everything becomes your advocate, uh, and, um, the

750
01:02:30,402 --> 01:02:35,439
Bible tells us he lives to make intercession for us, which is just Very good.

751
01:02:35,439 --> 01:02:40,475
Jesus is praying for us right now, which is awesome on so many levels. Anyway,

752
01:02:40,475 --> 01:02:45,512
uh, I'm aware of time. We've run over a little bit, uh, the conversation, uh,

753
01:02:45,512 --> 01:02:50,548
went, went on. Uh, I loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it. Thank you, ladies.

754
01:02:50,548 --> 01:02:55,585
Uh, can I encourage you, if you've not been to the Crowd website before, go to

755
01:02:55,585 --> 01:03:00,621
www.crowd.church. It is a brand new, launched this week website. So I need an

756
01:03:00,621 --> 01:03:05,658
army of people to go to the website and tell, tell us everything that is wrong

757
01:03:05,658 --> 01:03:10,695
about that website. Any errors, any issues, let us know because we need to get

758
01:03:10,695 --> 01:03:15,731
those sorted out. We just need an army of testers. Um, but this, the new site is

759
01:03:15,731 --> 01:03:20,768
live, which is great. There's a few things we still need to, uh, do on it, but

760
01:03:20,768 --> 01:03:25,804
check it out, crowd.church. Um, if you are not a member of a church yet, we

761
01:03:25,804 --> 01:03:30,841
would love for you to think about joining Crowd. You'd be more than welcome

762
01:03:30,841 --> 01:03:35,877
here. We have communities, uh, in midweek if you'd like to join an online

763
01:03:35,877 --> 01:03:40,914
community group. I know for some people you want to build that community

764
01:03:40,914 --> 01:03:45,950
fellowship online. You'd be more than welcome to join us. In just a few seconds,

765
01:03:45,950 --> 01:03:50,987
we are going to go to Live Lounge. So are you going to put the thing in the

766
01:03:50,987 --> 01:03:56,024
comments? So it's going to put the link in the comments, uh, for Live Lounge,

767
01:03:56,024 --> 01:04:01,060
um, and we will see you in there. It is go.crowd.church meet. Um, and Sharon

768
01:04:01,060 --> 01:04:06,097
will be in there, Anna will be in there, we'll be in there just only for like 5

769
01:04:06,097 --> 01:04:11,133
or 10 minutes. There's only— and it's not like thousands of people come into

770
01:04:11,133 --> 01:04:16,170
Live Lounge, by the way. Um, a handful of people come in. Come and say hello to

771
01:04:16,170 --> 01:04:21,206
everyone if you would like to. Um, come and say, how's it? Uh, but yeah, go

772
01:04:21,206 --> 01:04:26,243
visit crowd.church. Next week we have Ade speaking. Um, Dan is hosting. I want

773
01:04:26,243 --> 01:04:31,280
to say Mike Harris is hosting. Uh, and, and you're not hosting that much.

774
01:04:31,369 --> 01:04:33,309
I do not hosting now. No, no, that's it.

775
01:04:33,389 --> 01:04:34,210
You're done for the year.

776
01:04:35,059 --> 01:04:38,434
Um, not for the entire year, like, not if we're staying for the whole of 2026,

777
01:04:38,434 --> 01:04:41,809
but for the summer.

778
01:04:42,130 --> 01:04:45,604
For the summer, yes, absolutely. Uh, by the way, we'll be at Wildfires. All

779
01:04:45,604 --> 01:04:49,078
three of us will be at Wildfires. So if you're going to be at the Wildfires, uh,

780
01:04:49,078 --> 01:04:52,552
conference— festival, that's a better word— if you're going to be at the

781
01:04:52,552 --> 01:04:56,027
Wildfires Festival this year, uh, do come find us, do come say hello. We would

782
01:04:56,027 --> 01:04:59,501
love to meet you in person. Um, but that's it from Sharon, from Anna, from

783
01:04:59,501 --> 01:05:02,975
myself. Have a wonderful week wherever you are in the world. Uh, we'll see you

784
01:05:02,975 --> 01:05:06,449
next week. God bless you. Bye for now.