Speaker A

Welcome along.

Speaker A

This is the audio companion to the Intersect newsletter where we explore, well, that fascinating space where art and technology meet.

Speaker B

And if you're new here, we don't just read the newsletter back to you.

Speaker B

We.

Speaker B

We try to dig a bit deeper into the ideas.

Speaker A

That's right.

Speaker A

Today we're looking at issue number 50.

Speaker A

It's called the Art of Questioning Technology from Data to Democracy.

Speaker A

So let's start where he starts, with the Data Fluencies exhibition series.

Speaker B

All right.

Speaker B

This kicked off with rivulets at Boston Cyber Arts.

Speaker B

It sounds like there are more shows planned, too, in Vancouver and Lexington.

Speaker A

And it features artist researchers like Jesselyn Lai Olsson, Christopher Arum, Caroline Cinders, a few others.

Speaker A

The goal seems to be using art to help people understand data better, Data literacy through artistic practice.

Speaker B

And Jurgen's take here is that this kind of questioning, this deep look at the data we swim in every day, is really urgent, maybe even overdue.

Speaker A

He likes how art can push us past just surface level acceptance, you know, to ask harder questions.

Speaker B

Yeah.

Speaker B

And he makes this great point that it's not just about like seeing data on a dashboard.

Speaker B

We need to grasp the feeling, the meaning behind it.

Speaker B

What does it actually represent for people?

Speaker A

That's a really important distinction.

Speaker A

It leads him to ask this question, which kind of stuck with me.

Speaker A

What's one piece of data you've personally never quite trusted, but you also never really stop to question properly?

Speaker B

Ooh, that's a good one.

Speaker B

Makes you pause and think, definitely.

Speaker A

Okay, Moving on.

Speaker A

Jurgen then turns to the Academy Awards.

Speaker A

There's this news reported in Digital Trends about new rules allowing generative AI in films that are eligible for Oscars.

Speaker B

Right.

Speaker B

The Academy's official line seems to be that using AI tools doesn't inherently help or harm a film's chances.

Speaker B

It's all about the final product, the film itself.

Speaker A

But Jurgen calls this a potentially slippery idea.

Speaker A

And you can see why, right?

Speaker A

With AI getting better at scripting, voicing, even creating visuals, where does the human element really sit?

Speaker B

Exactly.

Speaker B

He points out that the Academy is leaving the judgment of artistic merit up to the voters.

Speaker B

But, you know, that opens the door for personal biases about AI itself to creep into the voting.

Speaker A

And they say they'll consider the degree to which a human was at the heart of the creative authorship, which sounds.

Speaker B

Reasonable, but Jurgen follows that up by wondering, you know, when does that degree stop being a feeling, a judgment call, and start becoming like a spreadsheet calculation, a formula?

Speaker A

Yeah.

Speaker A

How do you quantify that human heart part?

Speaker A

It's tricky.

Speaker B

Very okay, next up, he looked at something a bit different.

Speaker B

Pasadena's redesigned public art walking tour brochure.

Speaker A

Right.

Speaker A

This sounds quite neat.

Speaker A

It has eight self guided routes showcasing over 177 public artworks.

Speaker A

And they're short, like 30 minutes.

Speaker A

Walkable or bikable?

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What Jurgen seemed to appreciate here was the focus on the art itself as part of the city experience, not just say, historical markers or old buildings.

Speaker A

He mentions, doesn't he, that he often looks for art in the margins when traveling.

Speaker A

And he feels this Pasadena approach really acknowledges art's place in everyday life.

Speaker B

Yeah, it treats it as vital.

Speaker B

And it made him pose another question.

Speaker B

Why?

Speaker B

What would it look like if every town treated its public art as seriously as its history?

Speaker B

Really wove it into the narrative.

Speaker A

Hmm, interesting thought.

Speaker A

It could change how we see our own communities.

Speaker B

Definitely.

Speaker B

Then he gets into something from NASA.

Speaker B

Their astronomy picture of the day featured an image called Painting with Jupiter.

Speaker A

Ah, I saw this one.

Speaker A

It was made by a citizen scientist, Rick Lund, using data from the Juno spacecraft's camera, Juno Cam.

Speaker B

But the key thing for Jurgen's commentary was that the raw data was processed using an oil painting software filter.

Speaker A

Right.

Speaker A

And that's where Jurgen's question comes in.

Speaker A

Is applying a filter really the same as painting?

Speaker B

He draws a line, you know, between what he sees as digital artistry, making deliberate choices about composition, color, texture, that kind of thing, and just applying an automated style filter.

Speaker B

One involves a lot of human decisions, the other less so maybe it's more preset.

Speaker A

So while the idea of like this cosmic paintbrush is appealing, using a software filter feels different to him than creating something from scratch, digitally or otherwise.

Speaker B

Which leads him to ask, is it still art if the artist is mostly the algorithm doing the work?

Speaker A

A question that keeps coming up with AI art for sure.

Speaker A

Okay, let's shift gears a bit.

Speaker A

Jurgen also commented on a piece from Salon about theater and democracy.

Speaker B

Yeah, this one looked back at ancient Athens, where theater was apparently this really important space for public reflection and civic engagement.

Speaker A

Tragedy taught moral lessons, comedy critiqued politics and public opinion, that sort of thing.

Speaker B

And Jurgen picks up on this idea from the article that in Athens, going to the theater was almost like a civic duty, not just entertainment.

Speaker A

He contrasts that with voting today.

Speaker A

The article apparently argues that voting by itself isn't the bedrock of democracy.

Speaker A

If it's not done with human, you know, careful thought about the consequences, it can even be anti democratic without that.

Speaker B

Deliberation, which is a strong claim.

Speaker B

And Jurgen then wonders, do we have anything like that Athenian theater today?

Speaker B

A shared Space for really grappling with big public issues.

Speaker A

He seems doubtful.

Speaker A

He looks at mainstream media, comment sections, online political campaigns, and questions.

Speaker A

If they really offer that kind of deep reflective space, you know, can TikTok or Instagram Reels really fill that role?

Speaker B

It's hard to see how he quotes the article directly here.

Speaker B

Voting is not all by itself foundational to democracy.

Speaker B

Indeed, without careful deliberation about the consequences of policies, voting can even be anti democratic.

Speaker B

That really frames his concern.

Speaker A

It does, and its concluding question on this is powerful.

Speaker A

Can a play, or perhaps art more broadly, still teach us how to think like citizens, not just spectators?

Speaker B

Hmm, food for thought.

Speaker B

Next, there's commentary on an exhibition covered in Pestop magazine.

Speaker B

It's called Trained Histories, held at the Aurora photo center in Indianapolis, curated by Mary Goodwin.

Speaker A

And this one features artists like Minotauru, Michael Bobrovsky, Jim Naughton, Philip Toledano.

Speaker A

It sounds like it's exploring AI's intersection with photography and history.

Speaker B

Yes, specifically how AI can be used to, like, reimagine photographic histories, even creating images of moments that weren't actually recorded.

Speaker A

Jurgen seemed really interested in the curatorial approach here.

Speaker A

He notes its focus more on the ambiguity and the questions this raises.

Speaker A

Rather than just showing off the tech spectacle.

Speaker B

Right.

Speaker B

He highlights the shift it represents from photography primarily being seen as evidence as a record of what was, to photography becoming a tool for exploring what could be or what might have been lost.

Speaker A

And he pulls a quote from the curatorial text.

Speaker A

AI allows for the reconstruction or imaginative creation of moments absent from photographic records, filling gaps left by erasure, exclusion or.

Speaker B

Loss, filling gaps even if those gaps are filled with something invented by AI?

Speaker B

That's the crux of it.

Speaker A

Which leads Jurgen to this really potent question.

Speaker A

What happens when the tool we use to remember history also becomes the thing that invents parts of it?

Speaker B

Yeah, that's a deep one.

Speaker B

It really challenges our relationship with visual records and memory itself.

Speaker A

Okay, one last piece Jurgen commented on.

Speaker A

This one's from Lab Culture about how museums in Europe are using modern technology.

Speaker B

Right.

Speaker B

Places like the Louvre, the Rijksmuseum, the British Museum.

Speaker B

They're integrating things like AR VR, interactive displays, mobile apps.

Speaker B

The idea is to improve accessibility and make the experience more immersive.

Speaker B

Plus using online collections and social media to reach more people.

Speaker A

But Juge's perspective here is interesting.

Speaker A

He suggests the difference between how European and, say, US museums use tech isn't just about the technology itself.

Speaker B

What else does he bring in?

Speaker A

He thinks it's also deeply tied to funding levels public versus private and the general sort of cultural support these institutions institutions receive, the underlying value placed on them might differ.

Speaker B

Ah, I see.

Speaker B

He shares a personal story too, doesn't he, about a museum in Berlin?

Speaker A

Yeah, he mentioned seeing a digital integration there that was really thoughtful.

Speaker A

It wasn't flashy, but it apparently really enhanced the experience of viewing a very old manuscript without distracting from the actual object.

Speaker B

So technology used subtly in service of the artifact, not just for its own sake.

Speaker A

Exactly.

Speaker A

And it makes him question whether we sometimes underestimate the cultural value we lose when museums are treated as like budget afterthoughts or aren't given the resources to integrate new approaches thoughtfully.

Speaker B

That's a really important point about how we prioritize cultural institutions.

Speaker A

It is.

Speaker A

And look, these are just some of the intersections Jurgen explores in his commentary for issue 50.

Speaker A

There's definitely more depth in the full newsletter.

Speaker B

Absolutely.

Speaker B

His thoughts really tie these different articles together and push you to consider the bigger picture of art, technology, and society.

Speaker B

We definitely encourage you to explore explore these topics further.

Speaker A

For sure.

Speaker A

If you want to read the original articles and dive into Jurgen's full commentary, the best way is to sign up for the Intersect newsletter.

Speaker B

You can do that easily online.

Speaker A

Just visit the Intersect art, simple as that.

Speaker A

Theintersect art.

Speaker A

You'll find issue 50 and you can subscribe to join the conversation.