Hi, my name is Cody Burke and I'm the author of Take Me Back to Oklahoma.

Thanks, Cody, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Books Authors podcast.

Cody has written a children's book, as he stated, take Me Back to Oklahoma.

And I look forward to the conversation.

It's interesting, Cody.

Your book got me thinking over my lifetime about take me back to somewhere special.

And actually there's two places in my life that I'd love to take me back to.

It really got me thinking.

I'm hoping that we can get people thinking about, ah, this is interesting.

And where would I like to go back to?

We'll jump right into that if you could tell me what children's book authorship means to you.

What children's book authorship means to me is.

It's more than with non children's authorship.

I feel like ours comes with a little more weight and I don't want to say important, but important to future generations and the upcoming generations.

Like I my word choice felt especially important because I knew that it could impact how children see where they grew up.

And for me particularly Oklahoma and can see that our great state that not many think it's great.

And it's funny because I interviewed Charlotte Glaze from Oklahoma episode 23.

She wrote a book called Storm Trucks and it's.

And okay, so you can imagine the theme, but she loves it.

Yeah.

And.

And so it's quite interesting.

Tell me about the inspiration I'm gathering.

Of course Oklahoma means something very special to you, but tell us the inspiration behind your book.

What inspired you to write it.

Absolutely.

I grew up in Oklahoma for 18 years.

My father is a historian of specifically Oklahoma history and also an author.

And all of his books are either about Oklahoma or Oklahoman.

But growing up, I did not appreciate it.

I had a great childhood, but I was dying to move away.

And so my parents encouraged me to go to college out of state, as did many of my siblings.

And I went to school at Wake Forest University in North Carolina for undergrad.

And while I was out there, I got homesick.

And as every time I would go home or bring college friends back home, the things I showed them showed me how unique the state is and all of the things that are special about it.

We have a very special and unique history compared to other states in that country.

Our state has been important in a lot of things throughout American history, and I didn't appreciate that living there.

So the book is my love letter to my home and to help other kids, particularly from Oklahoma.

But really from anywhere, appreciate where they came from.

Unfortunately, it makes leaving to do that.

But I hope that kids can appreciate where they come from without having to leave.

It's interesting you should say that, because my dad was in the armed forces, so we traveled a lot, and I lived in 21 different residences in 20, 21 years of my life.

But I, during those 21 years, I did find one place that I had that same feel as you had.

And then in my adult life, the same kind of thing happened.

So that's why the book resonates with me, because it's it really for anyone reading it.

Like you said, they don't have to come from Oklahoma to appreciate the whole meaning behind the book.

How did you start it?

Here we are.

You've gone, you've moved out of the state.

You've done your university.

You now have a career.

And so tell us, how did this all start?

How did you start this love letter to Oklahoma?

Actually, the year Prior, though, around 2021, I had the idea to write a children's book.

My father, for his 75th birthday.

So he's written countless.

He's written, I think, around 170 books all about Oklahoma or Oklahoman and many of those Bing biographies.

And so for his 75th birthday, I had the idea to write a children's book to go into the.

There's a series from the Oklahoma hall of Fame called I Am Oklahoma.

I can't think of anyone who's more Oklahoma than my father.

So I wrote his biography without him knowing.

I got a quote from the former governor of the state, people who practice law with him or people whose biographies he's written.

I used my family to help and then surprised it to him.

Then we got it published, and it's a really sweet book.

I loved the process and that was my love letter to my dad.

But I felt I owed it to my dad and myself and where I grew up to do something similar for Uncle Homa.

So the protagonist is a little boy, and while his name is not Cody, like me, he is me innocent.

Oh, good.

And so did you wrote your second children's book is one to your dad.

So you wrote it after the one you wrote to your dad?

Yes.

Okay.

The idea stemmed from that.

All right.

You're a published author of two children's books, is that correct?

I am.

Okay.

And tell us a little bit about besides writing something to your dad and then, like you said, a love letter to the state of Oklahoma.

Have you thought about.

Okay, now how do I build a book business plan to support this book.

So what was your intention?

I would say my intention was I want it to be in the hands of kids in Oklahoma, but also anywhere and in schools whenever they're learning about their home.

I think in Oklahoma a teacher could use this and I've written lesson plans.

Oklahoma teacher could use this when they learn about their home state.

And then even teachers in other states could use the same way and then they connect it back to the state they grew up in or the country or Providence they grew up in.

Oh, neat.

So did you.

So you said you developed a lesson plan.

I've developed a few and have sent them out to some teachers who I know have bought the book in Oklahoma.

Has anybody used it in the classroom setting?

I'm not sure yet, but I hope they do soon now that we're back in full swing in the school year.

Fantastic.

What a great idea.

And that's the first time I've ever heard anyone use that technique to build out their book business plan.

So thank you for sharing.

Of course.

I'm a full time educator so that's always on the top of my mind.

Tell us a little bit.

I know your book comes in three formats.

A soft cover, a hard cover and an ebook format.

So tell us a little bit about each of those formats and where are you selling them?

Yes, they can be found on on Amazon or anywhere that you can buy book and on Yorkshire Publishing website, my publisher.

But they can be fine anywhere where books are sold.

I prefer the hardcover because I love to hold the book.

I find it to be durable.

The Kindle and Nook versions are great for people who like to read digitally.

I personally don't like to like we look at screen so often that I love to just hold the book.

I think there's a lot in getting to hold the page and flip the page and draw on the page, interact with it tactilely.

I prefer the hardcover, but they're all available everywhere.

Good for you.

I always mention to people there's really three types of publishing.

You've got indie publishing where you're the publisher, you've got self publishing or hybrid publishing and then you've got traditional publishing and I believe you've gone through Yorkshire publishing and they are a hybrid self publisher.

They do hybrid self publishing and they do traditional publishing.

And so this book is traditionally published, which has been wonderful.

Oh fantastic.

But the neat thing about even though it's being traditionally published, were you involved in the development of the illustrations?

So even before I reached out to publishers, I wanted specifically to have an illustrator from Oklahoma.

And so I worked with an illustrator named Camilla Crittenden and we developed the book completely before taking it anywhere.

Oh, fantastic.

Now I have never talked to anyone that's done that before.

So you actually wrote the book.

You found an illustrator from Oklahoma, which is pretty cool.

Was she born in Oklahoma?

Yes, he's born in Oklahoma, but like me, no longer lives in Oklahoma.

Okay, and how did you find your illustrator?

Like, how did you find an illustrator.

From Oklahoma on just search on a search engine.

I just did keywords.

So Illustrator, like looking for work, Oklahoma and combed through countless number and I really enjoyed her art style.

And I am very particular.

So I wanted to develop things before the eyes and mouth of a publisher.

Wow.

Wow.

You both collaborated together.

You produced the book and what kind of files did you have that now when you took it to Yorkshire Publishing and said, we'd like you to publish this, and they said, this is great.

We'll do a traditional publishing deal with you.

Explain all that.

It's pretty simple process.

They did have some things that they thought would be best to change, whether it was colors on a page or words.

And me and Illustrator were able to do that pretty seamlessly.

I'm not sure of all the file types and everything.

I would just pass those along because I'm not a very techy person.

Okay.

It went really smoothly and it was a long process because of how publishing works.

But it was more than how the book was delivered to them is not far off from the final product.

Okay, so when you say deliver to them, did you guys deliver it like a hard copy or did you deliver it through a digital copy?

How did you deliver it?

So we.

The COVID and back cover were designed, but we didn't have the publishing page and we had never printed it or anything.

So it was just like files of the illustrations with the words on top.

Oh, wow.

You know what?

Thank you for sharing that because I.

You're the first one.

I think you're my 49th or 50th children's book interview, and I've.

No one's ever said, wow, this is what I've done.

Pretty remarkable.

Hats off to you and your illustrator.

Tell us about the.

Are you sharing the book with the illustrator?

Like, how does that work with the publishing rights and stuff like that?

I am the contract holder, so the book technically belongs to me.

But we have a great relationship and we are like still collaborating together on other things.

So it's nice there.

Terrific.

And in terms of compensation, did you pay for the illustrations, or is your illustrator earning part of the revenue?

How is that working?

I paid for them.

Okay.

Okay.

So that's good to know.

I just want to be clear with people as they.

Because a lot of our listeners are aspiring children's book authors.

And so I just want to make sure I'm clear with them so they understand that in this case, you made sure that the illustrator was compensated for the illustrations.

Yeah, I wanted to be sure of that.

Okay, great.

And so now I can understand.

Like, I noticed you and the illustrator share the back of the books where it describes you as the author and your illustrator.

Also, like, you got equal billing.

Yeah, the idea was mine and the words were mine.

I felt she did just as much work as I did.

Okay, terrific.

And thanks for saying that, because I found that almost to the person, children's book authors are so happy with their relationship with their illustrator.

Thank you for sharing that.

Tell us about, as a published children's book author, tell us about your website.

How do you see developing it with your books?

How do I see developing my website?

Is that what you asked?

Yes.

I am not a very online person, and so it is hard for me.

I struggle with the putting it out there and promoting it, but I do have.

Cody Burke.com is my author's website, and I made that entirely myself.

It is not very flashy, but I think it's very functional and I think it looks nice.

I would like to say it looks nice.

Great.

And it's important.

Again, I tell everybody, you don't have to be a tech genius, but it's important you have a home for your book.

So that.

And that's what you've done.

You've accomplished that.

And it sounds like you're working on some other stuff that could end up on your website.

Yes, I am.

Okay.

And social media.

Did you use Instagram to introduce your book to your followers or tell us about that experience?

How did you talk to potential children's book readers?

Okay, I am.

I grew up with Instagram, luckily.

So I've had an Instagram more than half of my life, which sounds crazy to say, but I have about 14, 1500 followers.

Many of them are people I know in real life, and now at my age, many of them have kids.

So I rolled it out on there across my stories and a few posts, mainly for either people I know who have children or people who are happy to support me.

And I know a lot.

It was shared a lot with just my friends or people who know me followers.

And so I was happy with the reach from that.

Okay, terrific.

Did you have on the back of your mind as you started to work on your book that the Instagram approach.

Did you develop like a strategy in advance of your book on how you were going to post it to Instagram?

Yes, I had planned over a few weeks to.

Okay, here it is.

You can pre order it.

We're getting closer.

Here's what it is.

And I explained it more.

And then the day of and the following week, I guided people on where they could purchase it and what it meant to me and what it could mean to them.

Terrific.

How does you see it working for you where they're.

Did some of your followers get engaged and help you market it even broader?

I believe, though I think the share from other people and people I knew, a lot of people and many people I didn't know make posts about it, and that was helpful as well as the publisher did a pretty big rollout for it and continue to post about it.

Okay.

At the beginning, you talked about, I believe your character's name is Thomas, and.

Yes, sir.

And you said it's really a reflection of Cody.

Yeah.

Tell us how you came up with the name Thomas and tell us about the whole motivation, how you saw yourself in that story.

I truly believe that everything I ever write, whether that be a novel, children's book, or a play, will be a reflection of me.

That's just where all of my ideas come from.

Some reflection of me.

But I don't want every character I ever write to be named Cody.

And so I thought, I tried to think back to the age that this character was.

And what I loved more than anything in the world at this age was Thomas the Tank Engine.

So he is named after Thomas the Tank Engine.

Okay.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because it's always interesting about how we come up with the different names for our characters.

So thank you for sharing that.

And as you wrote the book, were a lot of the happenings that was your life?

Yeah, they're thoughts I can remember having.

I remember being on road trips and thinking, wow, this is so boring.

And my father, who's a historian, I did not appreciate when I grew up, every town we passed on a road trip to see my grandma, he would know the population, what famous people were from there, what it's known for, when it was founded.

And I could not have cared less.

And as an adult, I appreciate all of those things.

And I love that my dad knows all of that.

But as a kid, I just remember hearing.

I heard.

I always think that I Know the second most about Oklahoma of anyone ever because I listened to my dad talk, you know, the most, and I thought I just.

I didn't see the value in it until I got to see the rest.

We were well traveled, but I never lived anywhere else until undergrad.

And then being out there and seeing everything made me appreciate it afterwards.

Wow.

Talk to us a little bit about the character development of Thomas.

Tell us what was your approach to Thomas like?

How did you develop him?

I know you said you drew your own personal experiences, but did you.

Was there anything else that motivated you in the development of his character?

I wanted him to be relatable.

I wanted him to be true to me, and I wanted him.

I did not realize as a child, I wanted him to be different from me, but I wanted him to realize and name as many things he could think about that made Oklahoma a unique and special place as he could.

And so it all led back to that.

So everywhere he went, he takes something back from that and realizes what's special about his home.

Did you sneak a little of your dad's personality into Thomas?

I think I did at the end there.

Yeah.

I love how take.

Your title says it all.

So you could say, take, take me back to.

And you could substitute whatever you anywhere that to me that as soon as I read your book, that stuck with me and I thought, ah, this.

I took myself back like I described to you.

Tell us how you developed that theme.

Describe how it became an extension of your life.

Yeah, it's pretty simple.

As a kid, it was always, get me out of Oklahoma.

Get me out of here.

And that's first sentence in the book.

And then as soon as I became adult, it was take me back.

Which is funny because I currently don't live there.

But I will always love Oklahoma and I do visit often.

Oh, good for you.

Good for you.

You mentioned you're an educator.

I am.

And I know you said you made up a lesson plan for your book for other teachers that you've reached out to, but tell us about your how you have you incorporated your story.

I know.

I think you.

Your students are older, correct?

Yeah, I teach.

I have taught elementary, but Now I teach 8th grade and high school.

Okay.

Have you tried to sneak using your own book into your current teaching?

I have actually.

The first novel I teach every year in my eighth grade English class is the Outsider, which is by S.E.

hinton, which is my favorite book of all time.

And it is set in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

And so on the day that for the first time this year, on the day that we do a deep dive into Oklahoma in the 1950s, I did show a few excerpts from my book, and then at the end told them that it was my book.

And it was pretty sweet to see their reaction.

That's fantastic.

Do you see yourself continuing that practice as you get new students every year?

I think I'll probably do this every year.

Good for you.

That's that.

What.

You have a blast teaching this.

So that made it even more fun.

That is so neat.

Because a lot of my guests are either currently teaching or are retired teachers.

And so it's nice of you to share the technique that you use incorporating into your classroom.

So even though your students are older, you're able to adjust it and give it almost as a gift in their learning.

Yeah.

Now, tell us about your writing process.

So you've written two books, and first of all, share.

Share how.

And maybe it piggybacked.

I'm not quite sure, but share how you wrote the book.

To your dad, you said, it's a children's book, and then you, of course, wrote your current book.

Tell us about that whole process.

So the ideas just both came to me and I.

One of my biggest things in my life is, and I tell this to my students, and I don't like to count my chickens before they hatch, so I keep things very close to myself until they come to fruition, though, other than my parents, no one knew I was writing these.

And all of a sudden, hi, these books are coming out.

Here they are.

They're going to come out.

Here they are.

And so it.

I thought it would surprise people, but people around me told me they absolutely saw this coming because I'm an English teacher, I love work with children, and they were surprised I hadn't written one sooner.

And so it was.

It all happened.

As far as research, because of your exposure to your dad, you probably didn't have to do much research, or did you?

I had to do a lot because my father 50 years older than me, so I wasn't there for the first 50 years.

So I had to do a good bit, actually.

Okay.

And did you use him as one of your research?

No, I actually surprised it with him on a family vacation.

I surprised him with the finished, completed illustrated book, and it is a nonfiction book, so I guess illustrated, not the right word, but designed and with pictures and.

No, he had no idea.

I'm shocked that no one told him so.

He was never expecting you to embrace authorship like you did?

I'm sure he expected me to, but not about Him.

Okay.

Interesting.

And.

Success.

I'm always interested in how you would measure success.

So I know with your dad, just that alone probably was very gratifying.

What about the rest of the members of your family, like your siblings, your mom, what was their reaction?

Everyone cried.

It's a very sweet book and my dad's everyone's favorite man.

And so it was pretty great reactions.

And then he does a lot of his book signings at the Oklahoma hall of Fame and we did a co book signing, so we both signed it.

And that was one of a very special night as a lot of people from both of our lives came and we wore suits and it was.

It was really sweet.

So the whole process was good.

But now I joke that none of my siblings will ever be able to give a better gift than I am, so that I'm the favorite from forever.

Amazing.

Just amazing.

And talk to us now about your current book and how you're trying to measure success with this book.

I don't measure success for authoring, at least right now in like monetary terms.

I think success for me would be a child in Oklahoma, like appreciates Oklahoma a little more after reading it.

I think if that happens once, then I would consider the book a success.

Okay.

And you said you go back often to Oklahoma, so do you tie any book readings or go to.

Yes.

Okay, tell us about.

Yeah, Yorkshire Publishing is wonderful because they have set everything up for me and they tell me when they ask me my dates of in Oklahoma and then they tell me when and where and I will show up and happily do a reading or a.

An author event.

And I have enjoyed those.

It feel it's not in my nature to ask people to buy something that is a product of mine, but I'm working on it.

Good for you.

And so when they line up the events, are they primarily at libraries or bookstores or schools?

What's it look like when you go back?

I would love to do school.

Unfortunately, as a teacher, I have not been back to Oklahoma since the book came out at a time when school would be in session.

Okay.

Because I have my own school in session.

But I would love to go into schools.

So hopefully I will do that.

Primarily store bookstores or libraries.

It's been primary.

It's been bookstores and library.

Okay.

And tell us about that experience.

They've been good experiences and they've been beneficial to the business side of the book.

It's easy for me to talk to people out my book, hard for me to try to get people over.

But the for the author event, but for the reading.

I read out loud at work every day.

And so it's special.

It.

I really enjoy reading to children.

Fantastic.

Now, the role of writing.

So as an educator, as an English teacher, tell us the role of writing, especially from a children's book author's point of view.

Are you continuing to write more children's book stories?

And I.

More than I want to write more children's books.

What I want most is I would love to be a playwright and not necessarily a children's playwright, but all of it comes together in all the aspects of me to make that better.

So I think eventually I'll go write plays.

But right now, children's book feels home for me with my career and my age and my experience.

How much time?

Teachers have a very busy.

Because people think teachers just whatever hours they spend in school.

But teachers put in a lot more hours than that.

So where are you finding time to write?

What's your writing process look like?

I have a very strict rule of not taking work home with me, so I do not bring any teaching home with me.

Although I say that I do enjoy grading paper.

So I don't plan from home.

I will.

I do occasionally grade paper from home because I enjoy that and it's gratifying.

But I find on the weekends I have, when I'm not spending time with friends or family, I will lock in for a few hours and write or edit.

Good for you.

And I'm always curious is we get a lot of aspiring children's book authors listening to the show.

What advice would you give an aspiring children's book author to get started?

To just sit down and do it.

I think people get so bogged down with, okay, what's the first line gonna be like?

The whole thing and let it be bad.

Then go back and worry about that first line.

Excellent advice.

Student.

Student.

Can't students struggle to get started more than they do to do the whole thing?

So you just have to.

You just have to sit down and do it.

Thank you.

Encouragement for readers.

So what would you say to children's book readers?

Why should they purchase your book?

Yeah.

If they have a child in their life who lives anywhere, we all have a home, they should purchase this book to teach them the value of where they come from or an adult.

I think anyone can read children's books.

And an adult who wants to find ways to love where they come from, I think this is a great book for them.

Terrific.

When I sign books, I write a message, and then I always end it with Learn to love where you're from.

Cody Burke.

Nice.

When you're.

I'm just trying to think back a little because you triggered something.

When you do the book signings, do you actually read your book in the store?

When Yorkshire Publishing lines up a visit to a bookstore?

I actually read the book first.

I have, and I enjoy doing that.

Okay.

And do you as a teacher.

So do you review your book with the people who listen to you read the book?

How do you engage?

I would say this is a strong suit of mine.

I'll stop.

I do voices, I ask questions.

I let kids read an extra word or I ask what this is.

That's what my, like, training is in.

So it feels very natural to me to where I know from others, it might not, but it feels very easy for me.

Okay, so you've got audience engagement going on as you're reading the book.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because it's a. I've never really talked until I've talked to you.

I never really thought about.

Okay.

About engaging the audience while you're reading rather than just engaging them after you've read.

It sounds, again, a very unique way of engaging the audience.

Final thoughts?

Is there something you thought, oh, I wish Rick would have asked me that question.

Is there something that you can think of that you know the audience would get value out of?

One thing I can think of is working with an illustrator.

I think just as much as an author wants to see their vision come to real life, I think an illustrator also wants the author's vision to come in real life.

Because I have author friends who have struggled to give feedback to an illustrator or not love the end product, but an illustrator wants it to be what you want it to be.

Camila was so great at me giving even little feedback, like, what if we change the color here?

Or what if you change that poster to this?

Because here's how that connects to my childhood.

And she was happy to do it every time and enthusiastically changed it.

And I think that level of collaboration meant everything.

I never thought of that until you said it.

And it's great because, like I said to you, I've talked to so many children's book authors that love their illustrator, but I haven't delved into how deep.

Like, in terms of giving feedback in a positive, constructive way to.

Like you said, the illustrator wants to take what you're envisioning and bring it to life.

Absolutely.

Thank you for sharing that, Cody.

Thanks so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's book authors.

I really appreciate the generosity, your time, your insights.

Wow, we got a lot of nuggets.

I'm always looking for something that someone hasn't heard before and you certainly have given us a couple of really great things to think about including I'm so glad.

Yeah so am I in terms of the reading and engaging your audience and also with the illustrator.

So I hope people find real value in that.

And we promise to make sure that we give links to Cody's social media and website.

And if you've enjoyed this episode please hit the subscribe button and listen to future episodes and feel free to share this episode with anyone inspired who enjoys hearing about Cody and his book Take Me Back to Oklahoma and the whole idea of putting yourself in that same situation and say take me back to your favorite place.

Thanks a lot Cody.

I really appreciate that.

Well thank you so much.

You're welcome.