We are looking forward our way.

Hi, this is Brett.

How often have you heard the term healthy aging?

The meaning behind the phrase will differ for each person, of course.

Today we're going to discuss healthy physical aging.

How we care for our physical self can and will lead to a fuller, more vibrant life.

Our guest expert is Dr. Jacob Kaufman, owner of Optimized Chiropractic.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Brett.

Thank you both for having me on today.

It's exciting to meet you.

We've only just texted and emailed and so it's nice having you actually here in our studio with us.

So we appreciate your time and expertise.

It's gonna be a fun podcast.

And just as a reminder to all of our listeners, we always put a list of resources that we talk about during the podcast on our show notes.

So if you have a question and need contact information for Dr. Kaufman, we'll make sure that that's all available when we post the podcast.

So, again, thanks very much for joining us.

You have a lot going on in your practice.

When I was going through all the details of the website, I'm like, wow, there's a lot going on.

That is over and above anything I thought of in terms of a chiropractic office.

But before we actually get to that, we want to talk about you and introduce you to our audience.

So you go back to the University of Oklahoma.

What in the world brought you to Central Ohio?

So I, I did my undergrad at the University of Oklahoma, and then I went to chiropractic college down in Dallas, and that is where I met my wife down in Dallas.

She was visiting her.

Her sister down there who was playing in a volleyball tournament.

And so we were at a two step bar, asked her to dance.

Thankfully, she said yes, and the rest was history.

And that is why I am in Columbus, Ohio, because her family's up here.

And so after I graduated, I got recruited down to a practice in Florida, worked there for about seven months, and then we decided to move up here and open up our own spot.

That's kind of easy.

Yeah, a lot of fate took, took you in hand and made all those steps work.

But I thought there was going to be really a convoluted story here of getting to.

From Oklahoma to Columbus.

Just the two step.

Yeah, just the two step.

Exactly.

Two steps and two steps.

Very good, very good.

Now, now when he gets older and older, you know, the story will get bigger and bigger.

You know, I'm sure the missed opportunity, the chance that our eyes meeting, you know, oh, yeah.

I can draw that story out depending on the audience.

If we want to go on a 20min, I can do that because there's more there, I'm sure.

Does your wife work with you at the practice or does she?

She's in finance.

She works for Salon Loft's corporate office.

Okay, very good.

Well, we have to give her a shout out for getting you to Central Ohio.

Yeah, definitely deserves a shout out.

Yeah.

So your website states, move better, feel better, live better.

Those are goals we all hope to achieve.

You examine not just the skeletal issues of your patients, but also the neurological and lifestyle issues that could contribute to their conditions.

Talk about the overarching vision of healthy living.

What comes to mind is that you live in your 60s to get to the 70s.

I don't know why that phrase came to mind.

Maybe what you do today when you're 58, 60, 62, will affect how you build into your 70s.

So do it right now and you'll feel better and you'll be healthier as you move a decade ahead.

I don't know how true that is, but it does make a lot of sense, though.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I think what you just said is one of the things that I wanted to talk to y' all about today was.

Having your health span meet your lifespan.

Yeah.

And what I mean by that is.

That probably says it better than what I did.

Yeah.

But same same thing.

Yeah, same thing exactly.

Most of most of us live to 78, 81 for women in the US and 76 for men.

Most of us retire between 62 and 65.

And so when we look at how long we live, how many of those years are actually spent functional without disease, where we're able to do the things that we enjoy.

And the goal of my practice is to lengthen that health span, that functional living, where we're able to do the activity, activities we want to do, whether it's walking 18 holes of golf, whether it's getting down on the ground and playing with their grandkid, whether it's washing dishes or walking through the grocery store without having to think, man, I want to sit down because my back or my neck is bothering me.

It's that improvement of the health span because on average, we have 12 years.

Less of health Spanish compared to our lifespan.

So if 78 years is the average amount of life, most of us will only have 66 years of good, healthy, functional living without.

Without disease, without dysfunction.

So depending on where I meet someone when they're coming in for a consultation, that's Going to help me set up the framework of how do we get them to meet their goals.

Because it's going to be different for everyone.

Not everyone wants to play 18 holes of golf.

Not everyone wants to get on the ground with their grandkids, but it's getting them from where they are now to where they really want to be.

Yeah, we just came off a weekend of going up to Cuyahoga national park and we did a couple of the climbs and such and really fun.

But we were sore the next couple of days.

But I was joking with Angie that it's like, okay, we're both, you know, I'm going to move into.

I'm going to be 60 next year.

And it's like.

But we, I want to keep doing that.

And we just have to kind of prep going.

Okay.

We're going to always be outside and doing things.

We may not be able to do the straight up hike kind of stuff, but it's like.

But I do want us to continue to do that though.

Even if it's just walking a straight path outdoors and being outdoors a lot.

Maybe you can't scale like we did this past weekend.

But it's important to me and I understand those goals you're talking about.

It's like those little things like, yeah, if you want to keep doing that, you need to prep as soon as possible.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think too, that.

And it's social media and television ads and that kind of thing.

It looks like the only thing that an older adult wants to be able to do is get in and out of the bathtub or the shower.

Exactly.

And most aren't worried about doing a hike through the Cuyahoga National Park.

Right.

But in between there, there is a lot of living going on.

And what I loved about one of the points on your website is that notion of balance.

In some ways, I think in the state of Ohio, people, a whole lot of people talk about balance.

There's a lot of programming going on about it and training and exercise, all those kinds of things.

But.

But what you were talking about when you're looking at balance was it was really much bigger.

It wasn't just that you're not going to fall, it's that everything else works well too.

And so, yeah, there you go.

I don't know where I was going with that.

I don't.

I think we need to evaluate, I think a good point.

We need to evaluate what we want to continue to do.

Yeah.

And take the proactive choice versus reactive and kind of going, well, pills will Take care of it.

But it's like yes and no.

And to your point about how balance affects everything, and that's the goals and the function.

Balance is one of those bare minimums.

If you don't have good balance, you're not going to be able to hike, you're not going to be able to get out of the bathtub, or maybe you're able to get out of the bathtub, but you're not going to be able to stay standing as well or stable or when you're drying your hair or your leg or, you know, getting in different positions.

Like the balance plays a role.

So it is connected to everything.

Just like strength is connected to everything or cardio, respiratory fitness is connected to everything.

And then like you said, it depends on, depends on the goal.

Not everyone needs to stand on one leg for a minute, but most of us should be able to, you know, walk a straight, a semi, straight line if we want to be able to continue to do the activities we want to do.

Right, Right.

Okay.

So many of us have never been to a chiropractor.

Many don't even know what a chiropractor does or the reason that practice is not only a viable practice, but a growing practice.

There's so much going on.

But they do know that when pain occurs, something has to give.

There's some pain that just isn't going to let us continue to have a normal life unaffected.

If somebody is in pain and going to a chiropractor is a viable option for them, what should they think about in terms of finding a chiropractor?

I don't know that family practitioners, maybe it's better now, but it used to be the family practitioners never talked about chiropractors or referred to patients to a chiropractor.

I don't know if that's changed, but what should we as individuals look for?

I think it's changed a little bit, but I think it really depends on the relationship with the family physician and the chiropractor.

Like I, the physician that I go to has referred me multiple patients because she knows in depth what I do and how I go about it.

But I think there's also a lot of family physicians that say, no, don't go to the chiropractor.

And that's why I would say if you're looking for a chiropractor, the obvious answer is look at the reviews.

And don't just look at the good reviews, look at their one star reviews, look at their two star reviews.

Because a lot of times Those lower star reviews is where you find out kind of the details of the practice.

And while Maybe someone has 99, five star reviews, maybe they have two, one or two star reviews and they'll tell you specifically what they found that they didn't like.

And I think one of the biggest, I think one of the most important things about improving health is finding a practitioner that you want to work with and that you're on the same page with.

Because the research shows like, if you like your practitioner, your care is going to be better and you're going to get better faster, which is kind of mind boggling.

But that's just repeatedly shown in the research.

Like the better relationship that is with your doctor, the better outcomes you're going to have.

Well, you're going to listen, you're going to follow trust and trust and trust and follow directions.

Yeah, exactly.

So I'd say look at the reviews and then also try to find someone that says, hey, come talk to me.

There's a lot of practices out there and people like what they like and they should go to a practitioner that they think is best for them.

But there's a lot of practices that are getting you in and out of the door really quick.

Three to ten minute visits.

And they are good at temporary pain relief.

It's kind of like a natural Tylenol, a natural painkiller.

Feels good in the moment, but it's not improving the underlying dysfunction or how, why we got here.

And so I would say when you're looking for someone to work with, see if they have a complimentary consultation, give them a call or an email and say, hey, I want to learn more about what you're doing and, and really understand what this process looks like.

As opposed to going in, doing an exam for 150 to $400 and being like, okay, now I'm presented with this giant care package and I don't even know my neck hurts.

Like why, what is what just happened?

And I feel like that happens a lot in a chiropractic office where someone goes in, they're like, I'm a neck hurts, I want to get adjusted, I want to get cracked, what have you.

And that's true what they're looking for.

And that person is going to be a lot different than a patient that wants a plan to decrease that frequency or that intensity of neck pain, back pain or whatever it is.

I mean our pain and our function and, or dysfunction seeps into every single aspect of our life and to help someone through that and help them manage it and maybe make it go away, but we're going to have bumps and bruises in our lives.

I think it's extremely important that the practitioner knows the patient and the patient knows the practitioner on a certain level.

Has it been helpful that.

I think insurance companies are a little more accepting of a chiropractic therapy than, I mean, it used to never be carried under an insurance policy.

I think we're at an interesting point when it comes to insurance and chiropractic services because while they are covering more chiropractic services, they haven't adjusted to the personalized care aspect.

They're still paying for the short visits.

So that reimbursement might be for a 10 minute quote, unquote visit when actually the practitioner is spending 30 minutes to an hour with the individual.

So for a lot of practices, it's not viable to have a highly impactful practice while taking insurance.

So we're not there yet.

I think that hopefully we'll continue to see improvement there.

But it has, it has improved, but it swung, it swung one way and then it swung the other.

In 80s insurance paid for everything.

And they, they called it, they called it the Mercedes 80s because chiropractors would charge and charge and charge and then there are some lawsuits and then they quit paying for stuff and then so now it's starting to again.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Okay.

If, if, if somebody's looking for a chiropractor, they may be thinking PT in their head.

Physical therapy.

What.

How would you explain that to the individual?

The differences and also like the goals.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, there's, there's a lot of similarities.

There's a lot of similarities and there's a little bit of difference.

I would say if you.

From my office, I could drive 10 minutes and probably go to nine different chiropractors.

Not one of those chiropractors are practicing the same way.

And it's the same thing for a lot of physical therapists as well.

The overlap is the strengthening and getting people back to that functional improvement, the chiropractic.

What I like about my practice and what chiropractic allows us to do is chiropractic can be very effective for pain management and decreasing pain.

And if you get that pain to reduce, then you can start engaging in activities that previously were painful.

So say.

Someone squats down and they notice their back just has kind of twinges.

Well, we can adjust them and help that tissue become more pliable, more movable.

And then maybe they squat and they don't have as Much pain there or maybe a little bit less.

Well, now we can start training them and strengthening that tissue a little bit more and help improve that rehab faster or speed up that process so that now they're able to move and function better.

So that's the thing that I really like, is taking that chiropractic to help the pain relief, not fixing the pain, not making it go away, but helping get some relief and then training on top of that, because you've improved that range of motion of that joint or that area, and all of a sudden, this area that was protective and in pain has more motion, it has more mobility, it has less pain, so they have more function.

And then we're able to train that function in the same day.

So a listener is going to identify you as the.

Their chiropractor is like, Yep, gonna call Dr. Kaufman.

They're now in your office.

What are the first steps you take meeting a new patient?

Are there goals you hope to reach during that initial conversation?

And I think we bring this question up as an example of what should happen during that initial consultation and whether it's with you or not.

These are some good goals to walk away with.

If it didn't happen.

Maybe you need to go shop around a little bit more.

Yeah, yeah.

My major goal for every consultation is to try to really get an understanding of what they want and what their goals are.

Because saying I want less neck pain is great.

Yeah.

Who does?

Yeah.

That's like saying, I want more money.

Right.

It's pretty much, we gotta make our smart goals, our measurable, achievable.

What are our metrics?

And I obviously don't go into it like that, but it is.

It is.

What do you want?

Like what?

I understand you're here for neck pain, but when did this neck pain start?

What.

What have you tried?

What haven't you tried?

What.

What have you enjoyed?

What haven't you enjoyed?

Did you see someone that gave you all these exercises and you got overwhelmed and you're like, well, I'm not doing any of this because maybe it just takes 10 minutes a night, but I have a screaming kid or grandkid or all the other things that we have in life.

So it's really about understanding them during that complimentary consultation so that if we go forward with an exam, they fully understand.

Where we met and what our goal is going to be.

And that's really how my practice has changed in the last seven years as I went from, okay, these are your goals.

This is how I'm going to help you reach your goals.

Two, these are your goals.

How do we work together to reach your goals?

What are the things that we can implement day to day?

What are the things that we can tweak with nutrition?

What are the things that we can say you do work out?

What do we need to change there?

What do we need to maybe not change?

What are you doing really well?

And it's really just about getting an in depth understanding of the person of the human that's in front of us.

Because back pain, neck pain, so much pain is because we're human and we're doing things in our lives, some things that we shouldn't be doing, some things that we should be doing.

And it's stress, it's work, it's sleep, it's everything.

And I've had multiple consultations where we have.

I try to keep my consultations to 20 minutes, but sometimes they get a little longer.

But I've had an hour long conversation with someone and said, I think if you do these five things and stick with this consistently, you don't need to see me.

I think that you can overcome this on your own.

Let's check in in a month.

And sometimes they check in in a month, sometimes they don't.

Sometimes they check in in six months and say, you know what, you talked about a little more.

Hands on approach.

And I think I need that because I just can't do it on my own.

But that's really, it's.

I'm not the superhero in this story.

I'm not the Batman, I'm not the Robin, I'm your Alfred.

I want to be beside your side, cheering you on, making sure that you have the systems in place so that you know what to do when there is a flare up after we've gotten that calmed down.

And what can we do to help you reach those goals and work together alongside them to make that plan?

Because that's really what it's about.

It's about empowering that individual to understand that none of us have full control over our health, but we have the ability to influence it.

And my job is to just to make them influence it easier.

That's a good point.

I hadn't thought about that.

That's a good point.

Because we can't, particularly with genetics and what comes to us from family, we can't always control some of those outcomes.

If we are controlling what we can influence, it could also make it give us better outcomes when something really drastic does happen.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Yeah, good point.

So to take that a step further, one of the things that the research has consistently shown is that people that are stronger have better outcomes when they have surgery.

Because you're going to lose some, some strength and some muscle most post surgeries.

But if you go in with more muscle, then you're going to maybe lose the same amount, but on the other end you're going to have more muscle than the person that didn't do it.

The same with, with hip surgery, knee surgery, cancer, kidney.

I mean, across the board, all the research shows if you go in with more muscle and more function, then your outcome is going to be better than someone that didn't.

I think that highlights what you just said perfectly is we don't have control.

Maybe if we get cancer in our 60s, 70s, 80s, or even type 2, any diabetes or heart issues, sometimes that stuff's going to happen.

But if we can influence everything before and then have a structured program after, we're going to have better outcomes.

Right?

Okay.

All right.

So one of the things that I noticed when I was going through the website is that whole notion of this data driven process that you follow with whole body assessments.

It seems that pain management is difficult, it is complicated, it's different for every person.

So chances are the plans you're putting together are pretty complex.

Now you've got data on top of it.

So I guess I'm trying to like, figure out where, where we're going with this.

Tell us more about this data driven process, how it affects the outcome of a plan and how, how does it make things, I guess, how does it make things better?

How is it that you are more effective, the individual is more successful in their recovery.

I think one of the biggest benefits of capturing the data on that first day is that throughout care there's going to be ups and downs as far as someone's feeling.

And oftentimes that can be frustrating because we want that nice linear improvement.

And so when there's a hiccup, we say, what's going on?

Is this working anymore?

And what the data does is by getting that initial baseline, say it's, say it's for someone that had, you know, it's a football player in high school and they had a neck injury, recovering from a concussion.

And we have really good data on their modified clinical test of sensory integration and balance, which is basically just how your eyes, your neck and your vestibular system work together.

Well, if we're working with them and we have that, that baseline of how they're doing and they're continuing to improve and they have a little hiccup but we are able to show, hey, I know you feel like you've had a hiccup and it is affecting you at the same time.

Look at where we came from.

We've still seen that improvement.

And so it's a really good way for me to understand the baseline level of function, whether it's for balance, whether it's for their ability to really control their hips and lower back, to move their center of gravity where they're putting their weight.

It gives me a good baseline of that so that throughout care, we can double check and make sure that we're continuing to improve and that I can tweak their care throughout the process.

Because as much as I wish that I was perfect and nailed everyone's care plan perfectly, that's just not, that's not reality.

So it's a really good way for me to check my work as I go to help encourage them and say, hey, we're improving in these metrics, or maybe we aren't and we need to change some things.

And then it also, you know, during that initial exam can bring to light some other issues that maybe they didn't know about or maybe it's something that I need to refer, refer out on.

So that's really what the data gives me when it comes to the objective data.

Now, the subjective data is really the, the part that's, that's fun because that is learning about the human.

Because like you said, chronic pain is complex.

And when it comes to chronic pain, there's so many things that, that influence it.

So if we're not learning about that person and the other things in their life and how that's influencing their pain, then we're not going to be effectively able to treat their pain and help them improve.

Because like I said, we're going to have pain, we're going to have some dysfunction throughout our lives.

It's how do we effectively manage that so it doesn't take away that enjoyment of life?

So that subjective is more like questions and answers and really just talking through issues with the patient that the other, it sounds like it's putting an individual through a series of exercises or exercises test.

So one of the pieces of technology that we have is called a force plate.

And essentially what it is is you stand on it.

And one of the tests that we do is called the limits of stability test.

And essentially when you're standing up, you have an area where the most of your weight is going through your feet.

And so someone that has lower back pain might not be able to Lean as much to the right or the left or forwards or backwards.

And.

And so essentially they move their center of gravity as much as they can.

And I look for, I watch them and have that subjective watch of how well they're moving.

Maybe they're not able to move their knees, maybe it's their back, maybe their shoulders aren't twisting.

But then I have that objective data of they weren't able to move front left or back, right or front right or front left.

So that's like an idea of one of the things.

So for lower back pain patients, we'll look at limits of stability.

For balanced patients, we'll look at limits of stability depending on what's going on with the neck, which we've hopefully really brought to light or uncovered.

In the consultation, we're going to do a cervical challenge test, which is holding the neck in 11 different positions and seeing, okay, if you're bringing your chin down to your chest or looking up, does that really affect your balance?

Because that's going to affect treatment.

So.

Those tests using the force plate really gives me an in depth.

Look at their function that we wouldn't really be able to see with just range of motion.

Which range of motion is great, but it's just, you know, it's just movement.

Everybody's going to have a little bit variability there, but we can really test them against themselves and then get that baseline knowledge.

When someone goes through those assessments.

What kind of timeline is that?

A one time?

I don't want to say it's only one time.

Is it a one appointment or does it take several appointments to do or.

So usually what I'll do with patients is we'll do the complimentary consultation, which 20 minutes to 45 minutes.

The longest I think I've gone is an hour and a half.

And then after that I'll have blocked off a 90 minute exam for them so that if they say, hey, I want to go right into the exam, we can go right into the exam, do that initial adjustment if necessary.

And then sometimes people are like, they need to do the consultation.

We went over on the consultation and they say, hey, let's reschedule this for another day.

So it can be broken up or it can be in one session.

So usually if someone says, hey, I want to come in for the consultation and exam, I say, let's make sure we have two hours because we're going to be looking at a lot and we're going to be talking.

A lot of medical care has got to cost factor to it.

Obviously but it seems to me from what you're describing right now, that the data driven success rate.

Well, I shouldn't say the success rate, but the data driven piece to what you're talking about can help with possibly that journey.

I don't want to say quicker, but it's that the time is maybe a bit used more efficiently to where they need to be to help with cost factor.

I'd hope so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the goal.

That's really my goal is my wife doesn't like when I say this, but my goal is, hey, if I have a patient and I get hit by a bus tomorrow, they're still able to improve and do better.

I don't want to hear that either.

But I get it.

Yeah, yeah.

Like I want to teach you to be able to do all the things that you need to do and not rely on me, even though I have, you know, the majority of my practice is patients that I've seen one to two years or even longer than that now because there are those bumps and bruises, they want that maintenance.

They want to be able to have someone else that they can have help them with that, whatever they're going through.

Because I went to a chiropractor in the 80s back in the Mercedes time period.

And I see a big difference now from what you're talking about as well too, that it is an arrangement that you're going to go and see someone like you and you're going to have homework.

You're going to have homework.

Back in the 80s, there was never any homework.

You just went and it was weekly, you know, crack, crack, crack or whatever, they're doing that sort of thing.

But there was nothing you did on your own.

And I think there is that tacit agreement that, okay, you're coming in, we're going to get you to where you want to be, but you got stuff you got to do on your own.

Yeah.

And if you don't, it's going to be a slower process.

And yes, we'll take care of you every time you come in, but you're going to feel better sooner.

And to your point that if you're no longer there, you can take care of yourself.

You know what to do, you know what to do.

If you feel in your neck again, do these three things, probably you'll feel better at least getting through it.

And I like that.

I think we are getting lazy in our health that we know there's a pill for it, there's a pill for it, there's a pill for it where we should be looking at it from the standpoint.

And I'm not perfect in this either, but we should be proactive, going, something hurts, I need to go take care of it.

But I want to know why, what did I do?

And I don't want to do it again.

And if I do, I can take care of it.

But it could also be something that you can't again control.

So for instance, somebody who's working on their computer 12 hours a day, there's going to be a lot of pain in there someplace.

And that work schedule is not going to change.

So how do we fix, what can.

You do within that period?

Get a different outcome for a period.

Of time to maybe alleviate it, knowing that you're going to be benched over a computer.

Okay, your body was not built to do that.

But here's some things you can do during the day, five minutes every hour, you're gonna take a break anyway to help maybe alleviate that.

Yeah.

And that's the important part of that personalization is if someone comes in for neck pain and you don't know about their 12 hour days or that, and this summer they go down to four tens instead of five eights, so they're in more pain, you know that.

Or say they're a nurse that is working, you know, four 12s and then one week a month they're on call and you have them on a training plan.

Well, you know what their care needs to change based off of every five weeks that they're not going to be able to do all the stuff that you want to do.

How are you changing that so that they can still continue to improve?

Because again, everyone's so different.

We're all living unique lives and we all need an approach that fits us.

Not just, hey, here's a sheet of 12 exercises.

Do this for the rest of your life.

And to tell you the changes as well too.

Yeah, absolutely.

Be open.

Knowing I got to tell Dr. Kaufman that I'm now, like you said, a different four 12s or whatever.

It's going to make a difference.

And you may not think it will, but it does.

Oh, absolutely.

Just as you would tell your GP or gynecologist or whatever, it's like you got to talk about those changes.

Yeah, for sure.

This is sort of circling back a little bit here.

My question, when you're providing an individual with those follow up steps, they need to take their homework and that includes exercising, is that something that you also work with them so, so that it could be only just exercise at home or nope, you need to go to a gym and these are the machines that I want you to use.

Is it, it's all of it.

So I actually.

So when we think about taking it a little step back, but when we think about rehab, rehab is strength training in the presence of injury.

That's really what rehab is now.

It's very specific strength training and it should have very specific goals so that you're affecting the proper tissue.

But broadly, rehab is strength training in the presence of injury.

And different people need different levels of rehab based on where they're at and the function that they, they want to reach.

If you have a 75 year old man that says, hey, you know what, I want to improve my golf swing by 5 miles per hour, that's going to be a lot different than the 75 year old guy that says, I just want to be able to walk nine holes without pain.

And so their care and based on their commitment and how we've reached us, outlining the goals is going to determine whether I have them going to the gym and doing very specific workouts, whether maybe they can just do some body weight exercises at home, or maybe they say, you know what, I want to work with you, Jake, I want to do strength training rehab with you twice a week for, for 45 minutes a week for three months so that we can really get on top of this.

And then after that I'll do stuff on my own.

So that's the part where I really want to work with the individual on.

Hey, can you only, you only can see me once a week or you only want to see me once a week?

Okay, what are we doing on those other days?

Oh, you want to see me twice a week for 45 minutes?

Well, what are we doing those other weeks?

And now we get to do a little bit less because I'm with you for twice a week.

So it's really going to depend on again, that initial consultation where we're trying to figure out how do we most effectively create change?

Because that's really what it's about.

How do we effectively create change in this individual's life?

And some people are going to do best pulling out an app on their phone that gives them a reminder at 8 o' clock and 1 o' clock to do these three movements.

Some people are going to say, I'm not going to do that.

I can set my one alarm for 12 to get up and walk around, but I want to see you for two times a week for 45 minutes and then you're going to have everything, everything in the middle and on the other sides as well.

I purposely asked that question because there are so many folks who are in need of exercise and they've got issues in pain and age.

And it is really difficult to find somebody who is trained well to work well with older adults.

I've looked at a lot of trainers who look like they're 12, you know, absolutely, yeah, that's not going to help.

And actually went to a trainer who was an older woman and thought, this is perfect, this is perfect.

She's going to give me exactly what, you know, strength training that I need.

And the first thing out of her mouth is, well, you should be able to lift 60 pound weights.

And I'm like, okay, this isn't going to work.

So yes, if you see the exercise as part of the therapy of getting better, less pain, then it sort of makes more sense than just I gotta go to the gym because I gotta go to the gym.

Yeah.

That's again, like, what is our goal?

It's not fun to just go to the gym to go.

I mean, some people enjoy it, but.

You'Re right, you can tell.

Yeah, they don't have anything else to do is probably.

Yeah, but it's like, what's the, the goal?

Like I, I love working out, but every time I've worked out I've had an end goal and like what you just said of having a trainer say you have to lift this 60 pound weight.

Are you lifting six anything that's 60 pounds in your day to day life?

Do you want to be lifting?

What, what are the things that you're actually doing and you want to achieve?

That's what your programming needs to look like is how do we help you do those things?

Not just, let's just get you generally stronger, which is going to translate a lot, but you can be a lot more effective.

When you say, these are my seven issues, these are my four issues.

These are the things I really want to be able to do at my house or with my grandkids or my kids or whomever I'm interacting with.

And just like therapy, I would think that you start at a baseline and work your way up.

You don't suddenly just jump up to the top and think that's going to be okay.

And just because that young man had the weights at 200 pounds doesn't mean I have to do 200 pounds.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And you know, you mentioned earlier, Brad, about why do we get injured?

Well, they just came out with a study that looked at running injury and essentially it looked like, looked at.

When you increase your mileage for a run over 10% of your last mile in the last month, your injury rate jumps up to like 24%.

And if you.

So a lot of the injuries we get are because we get into things too fast.

So we see that boom and bust cycle of I really want to get into shape, I'm going to go, I'm going to, I'm going to do 20 push ups today.

Well, if you haven't done any push ups for weeks, years or a decade, you're probably going to be sore the next day or ever.

You know, that's going to be, it's going to be different.

So maybe we start someone with some wall push ups before we give them some knee push ups.

Maybe we start with some incline push ups.

Maybe they can't squat down on the waist all the way so we give them six books to squat down to as opposed to saying, hey, we're going to do a full squat with a 60 pound dumbbell.

Like you gotta, it has to make sense.

And sadly because of social media there's a lot of stuff out there that doesn't make sense.

Yeah, exactly.

So we always seek that way to age gracefully.

I mean, are there some daily activities or habits you recommend to individuals that's going to help us build healthy lives.

And I think underlying that when I was thinking about this question is you mentioned this earlier, balance.

What as we age can we expect to kind of go away the balance piece of it that you know what, you're going to lose balance because.

It just happens you're going to lose muscle mass.

It's going to happen.

I mean, are some things we can kind of keep an eye on as well as maybe do some get some habits of doing some things that can help not stop it, but maybe slow it down a little bit and recognize I need to see somebody a little bit more because I can't do this anymore.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I think so.

I know it's a loaded question.

It's a lot there.

No, I love it.

I love loaded questions.

So before we go into it, I want you to think about that 10% rule that when we increase our, let's say it's our fiber intake, I'm going to talk to you about fiber.

If we go from 10 grams of fiber a week and all of a sudden we want to hit the recommended 24 to 35 grams a week, if we do that major jump, our stomach and our friends are not going to be happy with us.

So we want to really think about that slow roll and improvement when it comes to our long term health.

If we're starting from ground zero, if we're starting from a set point.

So when I talk about strength training, when I talk about walking, when I talk about balance, when I talk about improving bone health and nutrition, we need to remember that we want a slow, steady, gradual improvement, not just jumping from 0 to 100 because we are going to see some slowdown in metabolism or muscle strength or bone density and all of that.

But the majority of that, which is hard for us to really grasp is based on the concept of if you don't use it, you lose it.

And most people's metabolism doesn't slow down in their mid-30s.

Most people's metabolism doesn't slow down in their mid-40s.

Most of us start are really getting into the thick of our career in our mid-30s.

We get a lot busier in our mid-30s.

Most of us usually will have kids in our mid-30s.

So we're doing a lot less activity.

And we also see our metabolism slow down.

But if metabolism isn't slowing down, we're eating more processed foods because we're busy and we don't have time to cook for ourselves anymore.

And our schedules have us so busy that we're not going on maybe that 10 minute walk or maybe we're not spending the same amount of time in the gym or golfing or doing those activities that we want to do.

So there are a lot of aspects of our health that degrade.

A lot.

Lot.

There are many aspects of our health that degrade quicker because we quit doing it, not because of aging by itself.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

So that's a common concept, that's a common thought that people think, oh, I'm aging.

This is just going to go backwards.

The inevitability.

The inevitability.

There was a phrase I heard somebody say we don't have.

Chronic pain is not necessarily tied to aging.

Just because you're old doesn't mean you have to have chronic pain.

Absolutely.

And that's enlightening.

Or a great thought.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And that's one of the biggest misconceptions is that this is just kind of a sentence that we get old, we're going to be in pain and we're not going to be able to do the things that we want to do now.

It's going to take effort and it's going to take work and it's going to take time and it's going to take consistency, to be able to do those things that we want to continue to do.

But for most of us, I mean.

A doctor will say, hey, don't run, it's bad for your knees.

But none of the literature shows that running is bad for your knees unless you have, you know, a root tear of a meniscus and it's literally bone on bone there.

You know, you see your primary care physician and they say, oh, you have degenerative disc disease.

You shouldn't bend over and you shouldn't lift.

Well, all the research shows, unless it's actually bone on bone, which the majority isn't, the majority of us are walking around without pain, with degeneration, with bulging disc, with spondylolisthesis, and we don't even know it's there.

And we're operating without no pain, without any pain.

But then once you know it, all of a sudden, like, oh, yeah, that's the cause.

I knew there was something wrong.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

So there's all these findings out there that we like to point to and say, this is why you have pain.

But the literature doesn't back it up.

The literature backs up, well, actually, it's the dynamics of your life that are influencing the pain, not the torn rotator cuff.

Because guess what, that other shoulder, it also is torn and you don't feel it at all.

And so that's one thing that is a misconception, is that, oh, I get an X ray finding this is wrong.

I'm old, it's just part of life.

But a lot of our function can be maintained by that 10,000 step goal as the metric.

Well, once you get to 6,000 steps, you're doing pretty good.

And there's an increase in improvement in life up to that 8,000.

Then it kind of levels out 8 to 10,000, and then there's a little bit of improvement past 10,000.

But if someone's starting at ground zero, doing 3,000 steps a day is going to improve their balance, their metabolic health, their bone strength, more so than then when they were.

And mental health.

Mental health because you're outside.

If you're doing the walk outside.

Yeah.

Compared to someone that's doing nothing.

Same thing with fiber.

If you're starting and you're only eating the, the 10 to 14 grams like the average American eats, well, you know, slowly increasing and having literally one piece of whole wheat bread that's about 4 to 5 grams of fiber, well, that, that gets you up to that next level of decreasing that mortality risk and you get back to that normal that that 25 grams a day of fiber.

Your mortality risk is 30% lower than someone who's having 10 grams of fiber.

So there's, there's so many little things and low hanging fruits that are just, just consistency.

If you want to be able to move your hips, you gotta start moving your hips if you want to get stronger.

God damn.

Exactly.

And that's a lot.

We bring it back down the two step.

Yeah, it all comes back to two step.

It all comes back to two step.

Well, you know the articles that I really love to read are the ones that say it's never too late.

You can start at any time at any age.

So are you telling me that that is the most true and profound statement is that you can start at any age.

You might have to modify some things but you can start.

You might not get to the end goal of looking or doing things.

Boston Marathon.

Right.

But.

But there's, there's so much improvement that someone can get by just getting, just getting started and working with the right person and working with someone to help them reach what they want to be able to do and help them reach their goals.

Because yeah.

There was a really cool study that looked at.

It looked specifically at your question.

Can you improve the heart of the health in someone that's 45, 55 and 65 who has been sedentary the majority of their life and this study was a two year study and they were able to improve their cardiovascular health by 18% and drastically reduce their risk of heart attack and stroke even though they'd been sedentary and not really working out or engaging in physical activity for the 20 years prior.

So yeah, it's never too late to start.

It sounds like you're talking about as well to find an accountability buddy to kind of keep you going because you can also celebrate together that you reach that 20 gram fiber goal or whatever.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's little things we need to celebrate but doing it alone can be difficult.

Yeah.

Because you can't.

The incentive just isn't sometimes gone.

Yeah.

Saying I'll do it tomorrow, do it tomorrow.

You know but.

And I see a lot of articles that say always say, you know, find your accountability buddy as you get older.

Especially for someone like me.

I'm not married.

There's nobody else in my house but me.

Right.

You know, I'm not dragging my neighbor into be my accountability.

But you probably have somebody in your circle that could be though, right?

Not really.

Your cousin.

No, no.

She wouldn't hold you task.

Oh, she's so far way ahead of me that I could never catch up.

And truly, I think it's my personality.

I don't want to.

I can't deal with somebody else's issues.

I have to deal with mine because I don't have enough time and bandwidth in my brain to deal with somebody else who.

Who, you know, needs the fiber.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But.

But I.

But I also want to say there are ways that you can have an accountability buddy.

Like those online apps.

Yeah.

That help you do that.

So it doesn't.

When you say accountability buddy, it doesn't have to be a person.

True.

It could be something.

Something to help you maintain that accountability.

You're checking in, you're.

You're monitoring.

Like, I have.

I have a of lot little cheat sheet that I use when I go see my wonderful nurse practitioner who always gives me a very big grin, says Carol, a little bit more.

A little bit more.

But, you know, so my.

My list will set, you know, how many steps did I take and did I get my 30 minutes of exercise in or not more often than not.

So there are ways that you can keep yourself on track.

I think that's where I am.

I need to be know I'm on track.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think that's one of the things, you know, we were talking about healthy aging, and maybe it's not an accountability partner, but, you know, we talk about the complexities of chronic pain, and having a support system around you is really important, and having those people that understand what you're going through is really important.

And for some individuals that don't have that accountability partner, maybe that is when you find a chiropractor, a personal trainer or something, somebody that's like, you know what?

It is worth maybe seeing them once a month just to check in and stay accountable and make sure that you're reaching your goals.

Because again, we're dynamic and there's all these other things at play.

Yeah.

I do have to give a shout out to my cousin.

She does keep me.

She is my traveling buddy.

I can remember one time we did.

We were really tired.

We were in Las Vegas, and by the end of the day, we're like, oh, God, we're really tired.

And I looked at my watch, and it was.

We had done 16,000 steps that day.

And so, yeah, she keeps me moving.

Oh, that's awesome.

She does keep me moving.

So.

Yeah.

So little.

Laney, this one's for you.

That's great.

We all need them.

We do.

We do.

Dr. Kaufman, this has been wonderful.

Thank you so much for your time and your expertise and being willing to.

Talk to us about these issues that are important to all of us, regardless of age.

I mean, they're just so important for us to continue to age gracefully, whether we're 30 or 70.

There's a lot to do.

We always give our guests an opportunity for their last words of wisdom.

Can you kind of help us pull all this together with some tips that you may have and then any other words of wisdom?

Yeah.

Well, again, thank you all both so much for having me on.

Last words of wisdom, I would say that it really comes down to kind of two things.

It's never too late to start.

It doesn't matter where you are or how.

Quote, unquote broken that you feel.

It's.

It's never too late to start.

You can always make a change.

That change might not be as great as you want it to be, but you can always, there's always room for improvement.

And then the other thing I would say is that when it comes to getting stronger or improving your nutrition or your balance, it's okay to start where you're at.

And there's so many people that struggle with getting started because they're unhappy with where they're at.

And that's almost harder than taking the first step because they want to be at step D or step G or step F and they're at square one.

They're at.

They're at A.

And maybe they want to be able to do sit ups or squats or push ups, or maybe they want to prepare for that big walk through Rome on the cruise that they're going in five years or be able to get.

Up off the floor.

Be able to get off the floor.

Exactly.

And the thing is to work with someone or try to find ways to learn how to start where you're at.

And I think that's one of the things that can really create the most sustainable change long term is set the bar for yourself really low in the beginning and just try to meet it and then just raise it a little bit.

And then just raise it a little bit.

And you don't have to raise it every month.

Sometimes you're going to raise it double in one month and sometimes it's going to flatline and sometimes it's going to go down a little bit, whether it's strength, balance, nutrition, mental health, or any other type of health out there.

But it's that consistency.

It's that consistency.

It's trying to find a way to have fun with it, which isn't always possible, but find the fun where it is.

But yeah, I would just say that consistency and that it's okay to start where you're at.

There's nothing wrong with you.

A lot of times we'll see a doctor or personal trainer or chiropractor and they'll say, hey, this is wrong with you.

No, that you're you.

There's nothing wrong with you.

You're you and you're where you're at right now.

And if you want to get to a different spot, then there's steps that you can take to get to, to that next spot.

But it's going to take time and it's going to take consistency and it's going to take some effort.

But that's the part where I think we can have fun and that's the part, I think, where we can really see that improvement is if we just take those baby steps, those just small, consistent steps in any aspects of health.

And then you look back in a month or two months or three months or six months or two years and you're able to do so much more than what you thought you could have just because you did some small things every day consistently over weeks to months, to years.

And that's really where that big progress happens, is with the consistency and just staying on track.

And you're going to have we're human.

We're going to have some down days, we're going to have some down months where we're not hitting those, those metrics or those goals, but just that refocus and say, hey, just little baby step and just don't beat yourself up.

So many of us beat ourselves up and then that takes away all our motivation because we've got enough stuff beating us up outside, you know.

Very true.

So, yeah, that's what I would say is you can improve in baby steps and you're human and that's okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, many thanks to our expert guest, Dr. Jake Kaufman, owner of Optimized Chiropractic, for joining us today.

Listeners, thank you for joining us.

You're going to find the contact information and resources we discussed in the podcast Show Notes on our website@lookingforwardourway.com and we are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.