1 00:00:00,989 --> 00:00:03,629 Janice Porter: Hi everyone, and welcome to this week's episode 2 00:00:03,629 --> 00:00:08,279 of relationships rule. My guest this week is Nathan Young, who 3 00:00:08,309 --> 00:00:11,819 is bicoastal? I think these days he lives in Vancouver and is 4 00:00:11,819 --> 00:00:15,329 also in Toronto half the time where he is today as we speak. 5 00:00:15,479 --> 00:00:17,789 So first of all, welcome to the show, Nathan. 6 00:00:18,449 --> 00:00:20,159 Nathan Yeung: Thank you, Janice for having me. 7 00:00:20,519 --> 00:00:23,189 Janice Porter: My pleasure, I'd love you to share with the 8 00:00:23,189 --> 00:00:27,029 audience a little bit about who you are and what you do. Because 9 00:00:27,029 --> 00:00:32,189 from what I've read about you, you had what what one of my 10 00:00:32,189 --> 00:00:36,209 friends calls a squiggly line career. So it wasn't a 11 00:00:36,209 --> 00:00:39,719 straightforward path to where you are now. So can you share a 12 00:00:39,719 --> 00:00:42,959 little bit with with our audience of who you are and what 13 00:00:42,959 --> 00:00:43,529 you're doing? 14 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:46,500 Nathan Yeung: Yeah, so I've been an entrepreneur ever since I was 15 00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:48,930 really young, it was kind of like what I always wanted to do. 16 00:00:48,930 --> 00:00:52,230 So I went to school for a program called Marketing and 17 00:00:52,230 --> 00:00:55,230 Entrepreneurship at school called BCIT. And that was a, 18 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,170 that was a fast track program. So I actually completed that in 19 00:00:58,170 --> 00:01:01,470 two and a half years. So I always wanted to do marketing. 20 00:01:01,470 --> 00:01:05,010 But that was not definitely my first job. My first job was 21 00:01:05,010 --> 00:01:08,760 actually a VP of Finance in China. And for all you 22 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,460 listeners, the funny thing is, I actually don't speak Mandarin. 23 00:01:11,460 --> 00:01:13,890 So you asked me how that was. That's, that's another story. 24 00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:17,820 But as a VP of Finance in China, and then after that, from being 25 00:01:17,820 --> 00:01:22,140 completely burnt to the ground. And I really mean that. I was a 26 00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:24,900 management consultant for about four to five years working for 27 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:28,650 various angel investors in their investments and, and helping 28 00:01:28,650 --> 00:01:33,750 with kind of m&a management and change management. And then, 29 00:01:34,050 --> 00:01:37,770 essentially, you know, life changed and kind of thought 30 00:01:37,770 --> 00:01:39,960 about what I was going to do for the rest of my life. And I went 31 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:42,930 to kind of help my family business, I moved to Toronto to 32 00:01:42,930 --> 00:01:44,910 help one of our business partners open their office in 33 00:01:44,910 --> 00:01:49,200 Toronto. And then I found out, I'm too much of an entrepreneur, 34 00:01:49,230 --> 00:01:51,690 not great for a corporate environment. So I went back into 35 00:01:51,690 --> 00:01:54,810 entrepreneurship. And here I am running, find your audience, 36 00:01:55,140 --> 00:01:58,650 find your audience is a business where we're a bolt on marketing 37 00:01:58,650 --> 00:02:01,740 department. And the reason why I did that was because during my 38 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:05,640 times, advising people, I had really felt like I would advise 39 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,520 people in management consulting, and then I would never see the 40 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,430 fruits of my work, or you would be kind of given off to these 41 00:02:11,430 --> 00:02:14,640 freelancers or other consultants, and it wouldn't be 42 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:18,270 executed well. So I found that very frustrating. So I wanted to 43 00:02:18,270 --> 00:02:21,510 solve the whole problem of like, I want to be able to advise, but 44 00:02:21,510 --> 00:02:24,630 I also want to be like fully accountable to deliver that 45 00:02:24,630 --> 00:02:27,420 work. But I need a team to do that. So that's essentially what 46 00:02:27,420 --> 00:02:30,150 find your audiences we do everything from strategy all the 47 00:02:30,150 --> 00:02:33,990 way down to nitty gritty execution. So my company is now 48 00:02:34,050 --> 00:02:37,410 like 2627 employees, we hire like one or two employees, like 49 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:41,340 almost every month, and I kind of call this like a scaled up 50 00:02:41,340 --> 00:02:44,400 fractional business, because now there's a lot of like different 51 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,550 fractional buyer advisors. There's fractional CROs. There's 52 00:02:47,550 --> 00:02:51,180 fractional CMOS, you know, there's interim CEO CEOs too. 53 00:02:51,630 --> 00:02:56,010 But I come with a full team. So that's kind of a difference. And 54 00:02:56,010 --> 00:02:59,100 that's, that's kind of where I am right now. So about 10 years 55 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:02,790 of quote, unquote, professional marketing experience. But you 56 00:03:02,790 --> 00:03:04,950 know, if I were to be honest, I've been doing marketing for 57 00:03:04,950 --> 00:03:08,400 probably well over 19 years, I've been doing marketing since 58 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,880 I was 16. I was dabbling in email at a very young age, I was 59 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,250 dabbling in like, automated social media at a very young 60 00:03:14,250 --> 00:03:19,740 age. So my, my, my amateur or maybe not informal years of 61 00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:22,260 experience is 19 years, but my professional experience is about 62 00:03:22,260 --> 00:03:22,860 10 years. 63 00:03:23,459 --> 00:03:25,289 Janice Porter: Wow, there's a lot there to unpack. That's 64 00:03:25,289 --> 00:03:28,259 great. Thanks. Anything. I have to ask you, though, I'm gonna go 65 00:03:28,259 --> 00:03:33,209 back to the very beginning first when you were the the financial? 66 00:03:33,959 --> 00:03:35,789 Yeah, yep. Oh, I think our 67 00:03:36,270 --> 00:03:39,420 Nathan Yeung: VP of Finance, not the CFO. So I had no fiduciary 68 00:03:39,420 --> 00:03:41,790 duty. That's actually the reason why I was like, I'm not being a 69 00:03:41,790 --> 00:03:42,780 CFO, am I too young? 70 00:03:44,130 --> 00:03:46,890 Janice Porter: Right. So the VP of Finance, you lived in China, 71 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:47,790 then I lived 72 00:03:47,790 --> 00:03:49,320 Nathan Yeung: in China. And if you want to talk about 73 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,150 relationship status, that entire role came from relationships, 74 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,620 and None None for my family, all ones that I built myself. And 75 00:03:58,650 --> 00:04:01,680 and that was that's like a, that's a beautiful story of just 76 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,150 like, when you hustle. And you do what people can't think you 77 00:04:06,150 --> 00:04:09,990 can do and you deliver and it surprises them. Like, that's how 78 00:04:09,990 --> 00:04:14,310 it got me a job. I flew to China two weeks after I graduated, and 79 00:04:14,310 --> 00:04:18,240 I presented something to a consultant in China. And I was 80 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,300 like you had people all across North America looking for this I 81 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:24,000 brought it to a you don't know who I am, I want a job. That's 82 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,680 literally what I did you want? 83 00:04:25,740 --> 00:04:28,320 Janice Porter: What's your idea? Right then there that you wanted 84 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,450 to go and live in China for a bit? Or no, 85 00:04:30,630 --> 00:04:32,490 Nathan Yeung: no, I was just like, this is a phenomenal 86 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:36,690 opportunity. And if I can get a job here, it's going to like, 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,230 you know, leaps and bounds my experience leap into math in my 88 00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:42,660 professional experience. So I was like, if I can get this 89 00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:47,100 done, like, this is amazing. So So I took a chance I literally 90 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:50,160 flew to Shanghai didn't have a place to live and I showed up at 91 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,330 this guy's door, showed him what I got him and essentially he was 92 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:57,900 like, Okay, well, I don't have a job for you right now. But how 93 00:04:57,900 --> 00:05:00,690 will you just work for me and just do it jobs. And that's 94 00:05:00,690 --> 00:05:03,420 actually how I got the VP of Finance job. It was really like 95 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:04,710 relationships and hustle. 96 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,640 Janice Porter: Well and and what I call it what the the Jewish 97 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,510 people call hutzpah, okay, you did it on nerve, you did it on 98 00:05:12,510 --> 00:05:15,660 footside, like you believed in yourself and you were you were 99 00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:19,710 brave enough to go and make that happen. And that's the heart of 100 00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:22,110 an entrepreneur, I totally believe that a true 101 00:05:22,110 --> 00:05:25,290 entrepreneur, we use that word very loosely these days. But I 102 00:05:25,290 --> 00:05:29,400 think the true entrepreneurs are the are the visionaries, and the 103 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,460 people that are willing to do what it takes to make it happen. 104 00:05:32,460 --> 00:05:36,270 And that totally sounds like that's, that's amazing. Thanks 105 00:05:36,270 --> 00:05:42,750 for sharing that. So you talk about being involved in all the 106 00:05:42,750 --> 00:05:47,730 aspects then of marketing, and I can see why because it's feels 107 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:52,980 so much better when you can see the fruits of your labor. So I 108 00:05:52,980 --> 00:05:55,800 saw somewhere in one of your your posts are great, by the 109 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,220 way, on LinkedIn, I think that you definitely have the gift. 110 00:05:59,460 --> 00:06:05,430 And marketing is definitely oozes out of you. So what 111 00:06:05,430 --> 00:06:09,600 essentially, you know, when you what, what would you say? Or who 112 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,630 industry wise are, you don't have to be specific if you don't 113 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:18,210 want to name the companies, but your ideal client? So what gets 114 00:06:18,210 --> 00:06:22,470 you excited? When you get that job? What is it about it? Is it 115 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:27,750 the industry? Is it the client? Is it the size is the the 116 00:06:27,750 --> 00:06:28,470 challenge? 117 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:32,790 Nathan Yeung: You know, um, I think the number one thing that 118 00:06:32,790 --> 00:06:37,770 gets me excited is when my client trusts me, and makes me 119 00:06:37,770 --> 00:06:41,550 fully accountable, I think that's the really, really 120 00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:45,030 exciting part. So I'll give you a great example. Like we work 121 00:06:45,030 --> 00:06:47,610 with a variety of different clients and in a variety of 122 00:06:47,610 --> 00:06:51,660 different ways. And one client, they're not on their largest 123 00:06:51,660 --> 00:06:55,770 retainer, but they're on our medium sized one. And they have 124 00:06:55,770 --> 00:06:59,100 a sub business unit that they're kind of spinning up because they 125 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:02,160 have a person who owns a p&l themselves, and they want to 126 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,910 spin this up as a bit more of a business. And so the the, the 127 00:07:05,970 --> 00:07:08,970 the owner of the business, or the CEO came to me and says, you 128 00:07:08,970 --> 00:07:10,950 know, hey, you know, I don't really want this to be 129 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:13,590 additional scope and like, how are you going to do that. And I 130 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:16,380 said to him, I was like, Look, as long as you give us creative 131 00:07:16,380 --> 00:07:20,730 freedom. And as long as you are okay with us doing what we think 132 00:07:20,730 --> 00:07:24,540 is the most important, which actually streamlines our work a 133 00:07:24,540 --> 00:07:27,660 lot. The reason why our work is not streamlined is typically 134 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:32,160 because of client feedback cycles. If we actually were just 135 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,830 allowed to be accountable, we would actually be far more 136 00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:39,150 efficient. So so the CEO was kind of like, yeah, absolutely. 137 00:07:39,150 --> 00:07:42,510 And I was like, Are you sure? Like 100% He's like, he's like, 138 00:07:42,510 --> 00:07:46,350 Nathan, I hired you guys, because you guys know what 139 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:49,710 you're doing. This is not the most important business for us. 140 00:07:49,710 --> 00:07:53,010 But it is important. And I don't want to increase scope. So if 141 00:07:53,010 --> 00:07:54,900 you're telling me you just need to be accountable, and you're 142 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:57,540 not gonna charge me for it, and it just can fall under our 143 00:07:57,540 --> 00:08:00,870 current retainer. That's great. Go do it. I was like, okay, but 144 00:08:00,870 --> 00:08:03,720 here's the name. Are you cool with this name? He's like, it's 145 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,380 a little corny. But yes. And I was like, well, it's corny, 146 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:09,630 because I have no budget to market it. So it has to be a 147 00:08:09,630 --> 00:08:13,320 little quirky. Right. And so he was just like, go for it. It's 148 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,310 not sexy. It's not huge. But we get so much joy because it's 149 00:08:17,310 --> 00:08:21,990 like full accountability, our creative angle, our copywriting, 150 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:25,200 our headlines, our taglines, our benefits statement, like it's 151 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,370 all us. That's really fun. So our ideal client is really one 152 00:08:29,370 --> 00:08:34,590 that understands, hey, I don't have marketing chops. Or at 153 00:08:34,590 --> 00:08:38,070 least I've come to the realization I don't, I need to 154 00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:41,460 go hire someone. And I don't have the capacity to hire a full 155 00:08:41,460 --> 00:08:44,460 team. So I'll go to Nathan. And I'll hire him because I know 156 00:08:44,460 --> 00:08:47,310 he's got eight designers, you know, three web developers, 157 00:08:47,310 --> 00:08:50,190 three content writers like all these things behind them. And 158 00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:54,480 that's a full team. And I can't afford $40,000 worth of overhead 159 00:08:54,510 --> 00:08:57,510 a month for a full team. So it makes sense to hire me. That's 160 00:08:57,510 --> 00:09:00,600 like our favorite client, because there's a lot of clients 161 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,900 that kind of call us accountable, but they hold the 162 00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:07,110 reins on everything, and everything is designed by 163 00:09:07,110 --> 00:09:11,130 committee. And that is that's not really fun for us. 164 00:09:12,270 --> 00:09:14,130 Janice Porter: Because that would take away your creativity 165 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,960 immensely. Yeah. And 166 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,300 Nathan Yeung: honestly, it's kind of defeats the purpose, 167 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,090 right? So it's like if you're hiring us, you're hiring us to 168 00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:23,820 help you prioritize, you're hiring us to help you align, 169 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:27,210 you're hiring us to help you execute. So to put us on a 170 00:09:27,210 --> 00:09:29,490 leash, it's kind of counterintuitive to the hiring 171 00:09:29,490 --> 00:09:30,210 process. 172 00:09:31,079 --> 00:09:35,129 Janice Porter: Mm hmm. And so it's from a company standpoint, 173 00:09:35,129 --> 00:09:38,699 it's a project it's not I have to don't have to hire somebody 174 00:09:38,699 --> 00:09:41,789 for the entire year as a marketer or as like it's a 175 00:09:41,789 --> 00:09:45,209 project kind of based thing right? They get your company 176 00:09:46,199 --> 00:09:49,049 Nathan Yeung: a lot a lot of our companies hire us for over a 177 00:09:49,049 --> 00:09:52,109 year so like our average our average client in years like 178 00:09:52,139 --> 00:09:56,489 three and a half years and the reason is is because like my job 179 00:09:56,489 --> 00:09:59,729 as like a fractional cmo comes in waves, because it's such as 180 00:09:59,729 --> 00:10:05,009 like Identify and now like I analyzed the needs, identify our 181 00:10:05,009 --> 00:10:08,429 priorities, and then we initiate those projects. So as they start 182 00:10:08,429 --> 00:10:12,089 to initiate projects, that goes back to the team so that my 183 00:10:12,089 --> 00:10:16,229 involvement cycles, right, but the the execution of marketing 184 00:10:16,229 --> 00:10:20,279 activities is happening all throughout the year. And I break 185 00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:22,469 this out, as there's two types of activities, there's like 186 00:10:22,499 --> 00:10:25,319 maintenance activities, and I use that word lightly. Because 187 00:10:25,319 --> 00:10:27,539 it's sometimes can be misconstrued as like, post 188 00:10:27,539 --> 00:10:29,549 maintenance, just like posting a social, it's like no 189 00:10:29,549 --> 00:10:32,849 maintenance, it's just like, the general activities like, what 190 00:10:32,849 --> 00:10:35,669 like a well oiled car, right, you need the oil, so you need 191 00:10:35,669 --> 00:10:39,239 the oil to work, it doesn't do a lot. But like, if you don't have 192 00:10:39,239 --> 00:10:41,639 it, it's not going to work well. And then you have like, the 193 00:10:41,639 --> 00:10:44,969 special initiatives. So that's like, the turbocharger on your 194 00:10:44,969 --> 00:10:47,249 car, right. So that's the one that gives you the boost. So 195 00:10:47,339 --> 00:10:50,459 every business has maintenance activities, and then every 196 00:10:50,459 --> 00:10:53,159 business should have additional budget for special initiatives. 197 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:56,369 So those are either launching new products going into a new 198 00:10:56,369 --> 00:11:00,149 market, or just like promotions, or things like that. So those 199 00:11:00,149 --> 00:11:02,969 are your campaigns and things like that. And and so, so we 200 00:11:02,969 --> 00:11:05,189 kind of ebb and flow with maintenance and special 201 00:11:05,189 --> 00:11:09,269 initiatives as needed for most of our organizations. Okay, that 202 00:11:09,270 --> 00:11:13,170 Janice Porter: makes sense. So your role, obviously, you know, 203 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:18,450 that my podcast and my beingness is all about relationships and 204 00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:21,060 relationship building. And you said it right at the beginning 205 00:11:21,060 --> 00:11:27,030 of that last piece about trust? And I would imagine that your 206 00:11:27,030 --> 00:11:30,240 role, then is your that you're the person out there selling 207 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,370 right, you're the front of the company, right? 208 00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:35,490 Nathan Yeung: Yeah, absolutely. I think I think a lot of times 209 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:40,920 when companies choose us, it's because of potentially, my 210 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,580 relationship with them. And the trust that's built from that 211 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:48,060 relationship. And I think, because I've said this to a lot 212 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:52,470 of people, marketing is actually very simple. All you have to do 213 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:57,030 is your marketing needs to build a level of trust that your 214 00:11:57,030 --> 00:12:01,140 services or solutions will get them to their desired outcome. 215 00:12:01,530 --> 00:12:04,170 And I think that's something that a lot of people forget, 216 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,980 it's, it's less about selling them on. Yeah, yes, you have 217 00:12:07,980 --> 00:12:10,560 benefits and pain points and all these fancy copywriting 218 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:14,310 language. But the point is, is that when a person makes that 219 00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:19,410 decision, it's actually trust. And it's trust, that you will 220 00:12:19,410 --> 00:12:23,400 deliver that outcome or trust that I have the highest amount 221 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,670 of trust for you, as a consultant or a vendor to 222 00:12:26,670 --> 00:12:29,850 deliver that desired outcome, right, because everyone is 223 00:12:29,850 --> 00:12:33,150 promising the desired outcome. So a lot of the things that we 224 00:12:33,150 --> 00:12:35,730 do, whether it's through marketing, sales, or just purely 225 00:12:35,730 --> 00:12:39,510 just relationships, is building that trust to attain that 226 00:12:39,510 --> 00:12:40,320 desired outcome. 227 00:12:40,950 --> 00:12:43,650 Janice Porter: Right. And like, I was thinking, I read one of 228 00:12:43,650 --> 00:12:46,050 your posts on LinkedIn. And I think it was about the 229 00:12:46,050 --> 00:12:51,180 familiarity principle. And I'm not sure if this fits into it or 230 00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:54,240 not. But when I was thinking about that, I was thinking that 231 00:12:54,570 --> 00:12:57,480 I think I'm always a label shopper, I've always been a 232 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:03,510 label shopper, and I hate the generic brand. I don't have the 233 00:13:03,510 --> 00:13:08,850 same trust in those things as I do in the Apple product, or the, 234 00:13:08,970 --> 00:13:12,540 you know, the, I don't know, if I think you know, I always want 235 00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:17,730 to buy the brand name, not the copy. I don't know if it's snob 236 00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:21,870 appeal, or if it's just that familiarity, that it's always 237 00:13:21,870 --> 00:13:26,310 been a brand that I can trust. I think your article talked a bit 238 00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:30,720 about the word the the song that gets stuck in your head. And 239 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:33,720 that's how you talked about you can share it if you like a 240 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,750 little bit about that. But what does that mean? Am I on the 241 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:37,350 right track this? 242 00:13:37,620 --> 00:13:39,990 Nathan Yeung: Absolutely familiarity principle just comes 243 00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:42,810 with the fact that like when you are familiar with something or 244 00:13:42,810 --> 00:13:46,200 someone, there is actually an inherent trust that's built from 245 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:51,240 this. And I describe this in a layman's kind of analogy, or 246 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,660 metaphor in the sense of like, lets us imagine you're going to 247 00:13:54,660 --> 00:13:58,080 school, you don't have a car. So you are taking public transit. 248 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,990 And as many of you know, when you're going on public transit, 249 00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:04,170 whether that's going to work or to school, and you have a very 250 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,010 regimented schedule, you likely run into the same people on 251 00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:11,580 transit. And if you don't, every single time, you know that maybe 252 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:14,460 about 30% of the people are actually repeats, they're not 253 00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:16,980 repeats every day, but you definitely see them, you know, 254 00:14:17,010 --> 00:14:20,190 once twice, three or four or five times a week. What's 255 00:14:20,190 --> 00:14:23,940 really, really interesting is you aren't really realizing it, 256 00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:29,070 but even the fact that you're just simply on that same bus or 257 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:32,130 train or whatever you are, whatever public transit system 258 00:14:32,130 --> 00:14:35,760 you are on, you're actually creating this very thin layer of 259 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,210 trust amongst yourself and you don't even know it because it 260 00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:42,030 now if I want you to think about this, I want you to imagine this 261 00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:45,270 for a second. I just want you to imagine a random stranger coming 262 00:14:45,270 --> 00:14:48,480 up to you and asking for your cell phone. There's there's a 263 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,720 lack of there's a there's a ton of anxiety that gets built into 264 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,020 you. Now out of just being a nice person you might feel 265 00:14:55,050 --> 00:14:58,620 obligated to give that person your phone because you know like 266 00:14:58,650 --> 00:15:02,280 what could go wrong, but Now I want you to take an imagine that 267 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,790 same scenario, but now imagine it with that one or two persons, 268 00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:10,080 or one or the two people you've always seen on the same bus or 269 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,560 train again, and they asked you for the cell phone. And I want 270 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,890 you to be really honest with yourself, do you think you 271 00:15:16,890 --> 00:15:20,970 actually have the same level of anxiety, giving you the sale? 272 00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:25,830 And so just through familiarity and frequency, they build trust 273 00:15:25,830 --> 00:15:29,190 with you with absolutely no interaction? Right. And that's 274 00:15:29,190 --> 00:15:33,210 what familiar you guys. And so subconsciously, as you are 275 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:36,690 repeated as you have repeated exposures to the same things, 276 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,740 trust is actually being built, whether you know it or not. And 277 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,290 that's essentially what the familiarity principle does in 278 00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:46,260 layman's terms is that when you are frequent, this is why people 279 00:15:46,260 --> 00:15:48,780 do retargeting, right? So retargeting ads to make sure you 280 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:51,510 see it. That's why you see a lot of ads everywhere. And that's 281 00:15:51,510 --> 00:15:54,570 why you see a lot of studies about frequency, and how many 282 00:15:54,570 --> 00:15:57,540 times you have to show ads to certain people. So that is the 283 00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:59,850 familiarity principle. And and it's a beautiful thing. But it's 284 00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:02,220 also really, really important for relationships, like think 285 00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:05,010 about it as simply simply as like, Do you really think you're 286 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:09,900 going to have a great relationship with a client or a 287 00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:14,790 potential vendor? If you only see them? Once a year? Or you've 288 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:18,900 only emailed them once or twice? No? Right? So so constant 289 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:22,080 interaction constant frequency, that's building familiarity. And 290 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,690 when you build familiarity, you naturally build trust. 291 00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:29,010 Janice Porter: Yeah, that's, it's so funny. I had a woman 292 00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:33,630 that I was introduced, I wasn't introduced. I had a campaign 293 00:16:33,630 --> 00:16:37,080 going on LinkedIn, and her name came up to someone to connect 294 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,580 with. She said, Yes, I looked at her profile. And I went, I think 295 00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:46,470 I know this woman. And I went to my closet and found this book 296 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:49,860 that I knew that's what it was. And it was a workbook about 297 00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:53,160 telephone courtesy that I had bought when I was teaching 298 00:16:53,190 --> 00:16:58,080 telephone courtesy back in the 90s. Okay. And this was the 299 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,650 woman who had written that book. Now, I didn't know her at all, I 300 00:17:01,650 --> 00:17:04,920 just bought that book. She was a person at that time and still 301 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,500 goes by the telephone doctor, because she was all about 302 00:17:07,620 --> 00:17:11,430 telephone courtesy. Well, when that when her name showed up, as 303 00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:14,220 she accepted my connection request, I had to tell her that 304 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:18,240 story. We were like, best friends in five minutes, because 305 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:23,310 of that interaction, so many umpteen years ago, that, you 306 00:17:23,310 --> 00:17:26,250 know, neither one of us knew the other person, but that trust in 307 00:17:26,250 --> 00:17:30,150 that that connection was there. And now we're like best friends. 308 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:30,840 It's so funny. 309 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,630 Nathan Yeung: Yeah, and familiarity is the same 310 00:17:33,630 --> 00:17:38,490 principle as finding, like, you know, like subjects that people 311 00:17:38,490 --> 00:17:42,450 are interested in, right. So if you know that your your 312 00:17:42,450 --> 00:17:46,770 potential clients has kids, and those kids like karate, and your 313 00:17:46,770 --> 00:17:50,400 kids go to karate, there is a sense of familiarity when you 314 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,390 have that topic in common. And that again, builds trust, right, 315 00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:59,370 and so familiar to you know, is is just the outcome of, of 316 00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:02,490 certain things in life are certain effects in life. But 317 00:18:02,490 --> 00:18:07,680 familiarity, just that feeling, really, really encapsulate like 318 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,380 a lot of opportunities to build trust. And if you know how to 319 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:13,440 create familiarity, it's a great tool to use. 320 00:18:13,770 --> 00:18:16,320 Janice Porter: Yeah, I call it when I'm talking, when I'm 321 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,730 teaching people on LinkedIn, how to engage with people that 322 00:18:20,730 --> 00:18:23,490 they've just met, or that they want to get to know because they 323 00:18:23,490 --> 00:18:28,800 want to pursue any possible lead generation from that is building 324 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,980 rapport. It's about building rapport. And it's looking for 325 00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:35,370 those signals that you know, those things on their profile 326 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,020 that they could use to leap frog from that, you know, to build 327 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:46,500 rapport, which is so true. I had hoped that when I first met you 328 00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:51,330 that talking about your little girl, which just made you light 329 00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:54,540 up, amazingly. And I have the same experience with my little 330 00:18:54,540 --> 00:18:57,270 granddaughter who's a little bit older than Naomi, right, is that 331 00:18:57,270 --> 00:19:02,580 your Yeah. And that was a way to build rapport with you. And and, 332 00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:04,800 you know, and then that was one of the first things that I 333 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,370 wanted to talk about when I saw you again today. So yes, I think 334 00:19:08,370 --> 00:19:11,940 that's so important is building rapport, female building 335 00:19:11,940 --> 00:19:16,680 familiarity, and getting people to trust and the sooner you get 336 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,760 it, the better obviously, I wanted to ask you this was not 337 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,910 on anything except that actually, I saw this on your 338 00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:30,960 LinkedIn profile, that you are part of pavilion. Now. Is that 339 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:36,630 because I had the owner of that on my podcast, Sam Jacobs? Yes. 340 00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:41,910 Yeah. So that was an interesting platform that he created. Are 341 00:19:41,910 --> 00:19:43,980 you still part of that you were quite involved with it? I 342 00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:45,660 Nathan Yeung: think I am still a part of it. So I'm 343 00:19:45,660 --> 00:19:50,160 hypothetically an envoy, which means I lead a small group, the 344 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,600 line Law Group in Toronto. I'm also a part of the fractional 345 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,900 Consulting Group and also the CMO group. So I'm part of a 346 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:00,600 different group, but I only lead the language group which is a 347 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:06,660 Toronto, kind of segment of the pavilion group. And it's been, 348 00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:09,870 it's been an interesting experience. Um, I would say 349 00:20:09,870 --> 00:20:14,460 that, you know, as a person who also grows private community, so 350 00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:18,480 I have kind of our private community executives that I kind 351 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,940 of curates and program events for, I would do things 352 00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,970 differently. It's been a great platform to meet new people I've 353 00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:30,000 met, probably what I would consider Shara Bell, if you're 354 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,400 ever doing Account Based Marketing to be called out to 355 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,060 her. And Janice, if you get an opportunity to talk to her, 356 00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:40,080 she's an amazing person, Shara is I would go on to be 357 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,580 considered a lifelong business friend. She and I have a small 358 00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:47,310 little private community together, and we talk very 359 00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:50,970 openly and honestly about our business. So I've made some, you 360 00:20:50,970 --> 00:20:54,210 know, absolutely amazing relationships. I think just in 361 00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:56,040 terms of some of the event programs, there could be some 362 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:56,670 changes, 363 00:20:57,150 --> 00:20:58,590 Janice Porter: of course, well, you should tell Sam. 364 00:21:00,210 --> 00:21:01,110 Nathan Yeung: I've left my feedback. 365 00:21:02,190 --> 00:21:04,380 Janice Porter: Okay. Yeah, no, it's just such a small world in 366 00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:09,450 a way because his book kind folk finished first was, wasn't his 367 00:21:09,450 --> 00:21:13,350 story. And, and he also talks about the the importance of 368 00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:17,610 trust and building relationships to you know, to do what you need 369 00:21:17,610 --> 00:21:24,330 to do. And so he created his own platform around that. So just an 370 00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:29,700 aside as a busy entrepreneur, and I've got two more questions 371 00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:36,630 to ask you. One is, as a busy entrepreneur, do you read, 372 00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:41,760 listen, or watch the most? Right, so are you a book? Do you 373 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,880 read books? Do you listen to books? Do you watch videos? 374 00:21:44,910 --> 00:21:47,250 listen to podcasts? What's your favorite thing? 375 00:21:47,490 --> 00:21:51,660 Nathan Yeung: Oh, I'm so that's so that's a great question. I am 376 00:21:51,660 --> 00:21:57,990 so incredibly busy these days, I probably my form of consumption 377 00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:02,280 or two things, I would say audiobooks right now, and 378 00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:08,430 YouTube videos. So I used to love and I still have an 379 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:12,660 absolutely monstrous Kindle library I have yet to play 380 00:22:13,050 --> 00:22:19,050 through. But I would say like, just because I'm so busy, I try 381 00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:23,850 to maximize my time with audiobooks. And definitely when 382 00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:27,000 it comes to hands on execution, it's definitely YouTube videos. 383 00:22:28,110 --> 00:22:31,260 Janice Porter: And that's like this, that mostly then for 384 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,130 looking you're looking to how to do something, or is that podcast 385 00:22:35,130 --> 00:22:37,230 type things, or interviews and things like that. 386 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:41,490 Nathan Yeung: So for audio books there, they're mainly just books 387 00:22:41,490 --> 00:22:45,060 on marketing. So I'm always trying to think about like, I 388 00:22:45,060 --> 00:22:47,970 can't be the smartest person in the room. So I have to listen to 389 00:22:47,970 --> 00:22:50,340 all these books, because they must have better angles than me. 390 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,160 So I'm always listening to marketing books, strategy, 391 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,910 books, management, and just relationship like, you know, 392 00:22:56,910 --> 00:23:01,380 kind of EQ type books, leadership books, so everything 393 00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:04,650 is business oriented. Basically, I'm a very boring audiobook 394 00:23:04,650 --> 00:23:10,050 person. Um, and then courses by any chance, like so the the 395 00:23:10,050 --> 00:23:13,410 teaching company was something that I loved listening to, 396 00:23:13,410 --> 00:23:16,350 because they all had Ivy League Teachers speaking about courses. 397 00:23:16,350 --> 00:23:20,340 So I used to listen to those all the time. For YouTube. It's 398 00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:24,390 definitely instructional how to, so I'm, I'm not going to 399 00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:28,050 consider myself like a fully graduated Python coder. But I'd 400 00:23:28,050 --> 00:23:30,960 give myself like a level 200 like I'm on my second year. So 401 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,840 I'm very comfortable. But I'm not a fluid programmer. So 402 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,460 often, I am trying to hack my way through generative ai, ai, 403 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:43,140 and I'm creating small tools for myself. So I'm generally 404 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:47,370 watching those videos just because there are a million 405 00:23:47,370 --> 00:23:50,520 people smarter than me in that space. And there are at least 406 00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:54,300 100 YouTube videos that are far easier for me to do it than for 407 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:55,620 me to try to figure out on my own. 408 00:23:56,010 --> 00:23:58,830 Janice Porter: All right, fair enough. And are you that, of 409 00:23:58,830 --> 00:24:03,690 course poses another question about AI and chat GPT. And all 410 00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:06,720 of that, do you incorporate that stuff now into your 411 00:24:06,750 --> 00:24:09,840 Nathan Yeung: 1,000,000%. So as soon as Jack GPT and I said this 412 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,340 on another podcast, as soon as GPT came out, I had literally 413 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:18,630 reallocated one of my resources to be a full time AI person. So 414 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:23,070 his first month on the job was literally just analyzing AI 415 00:24:23,070 --> 00:24:26,100 tools. So I was like, I don't want you writing a word. I just 416 00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:29,040 want everything to be generated. And then I need you to come back 417 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,380 and tell me like, how is it working? What are the 418 00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:34,620 constraints? Why won't it work? And let's figure out what this 419 00:24:34,620 --> 00:24:37,170 looks like in my workflow. So like AI is massive in our 420 00:24:37,170 --> 00:24:40,200 organization. And if you're listening right now, and you're 421 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,910 not using any AI tools, you are going to get behind and you're 422 00:24:44,910 --> 00:24:46,380 going to get behind very quick. 423 00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:48,900 Janice Porter: Yeah, it's interesting. I know it's hard to 424 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:53,760 keep up with everything these days, but it seems as though if 425 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,550 you use if you use it my limited experience if you use it. Number 426 00:24:59,550 --> 00:25:03,540 one you got know what to ask it and be specific. And number two, 427 00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:06,120 you have to realize that it only has access to what's already 428 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,870 happened. So don't you know, you've got to make it your own 429 00:25:09,930 --> 00:25:14,790 after that anyway? Then it would be okay. But I would never, you 430 00:25:14,790 --> 00:25:17,040 know, there's so many dangers around it. But that's the same 431 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,740 with anything when something's new and people try to find their 432 00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:25,500 own way around. Right. So, yeah, definitely interesting. Okay, 433 00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:31,950 last question. It's two parts. And I love to ask my my guests 434 00:25:31,950 --> 00:25:38,880 this. And my favorite word is curiosity. So number one, do you 435 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,460 think curiosity is innate or learned? And part two? What are 436 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:46,320 you most curious about these days? 437 00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:55,020 Nathan Yeung: It's innate or learned? I think that's such an 438 00:25:55,020 --> 00:25:59,160 interesting question. And I think if I were to lean into it, 439 00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:06,540 I would say curiosity is innate. And the reason I would say that 440 00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:10,230 is because I think some people feel like many people aren't 441 00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:14,550 just naturally curious. And I would counter that comment is 442 00:26:14,670 --> 00:26:18,630 no, they probably are, you're just not interested in the same 443 00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:24,450 topic. Okay, and so therefore, their curiosity is not one of 444 00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:28,380 generality. It's one of specificity. And so therefore, 445 00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:32,820 if you don't have that same interest, and you're not going 446 00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:36,600 to be curious, and neither are they, so So I would say, I think 447 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,610 everyone is curious. I think the only reasons why we don't find 448 00:26:41,610 --> 00:26:44,640 things curious to one another is likely the fact that they're not 449 00:26:44,670 --> 00:26:47,280 they have no interest, essentially. So I would say I 450 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,500 would definitely be on in need. What am I most curious about 451 00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:57,540 God, I'm curious about a lot of things. I am, I am definitely 452 00:26:57,570 --> 00:27:00,990 the type of person who will read like a Wikipedia article. And 453 00:27:00,990 --> 00:27:04,860 then we'll go through every single footnote, because I'm 454 00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:10,920 curious. So I'll give a good example I started right. So if 455 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,320 any of you guys ever decide to follow me and want to see my 456 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,350 face every day talking about psychology topics, on marketing, 457 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,330 I ventured, this year, just the beginning of year starting my 458 00:27:21,330 --> 00:27:25,260 content. And I started moving towards this direction where I 459 00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:30,480 really want to make marketing and consumer psychology really 460 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,380 easy to consume. And I want to I may want it to be applicable to 461 00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:38,580 agile marketing tactics. And so I have essentially journeyed 462 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:43,830 into this whole, like, mountainous, incredibly 463 00:27:43,860 --> 00:27:48,300 uncomfortable amount of research, where I'm reading, I 464 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:52,500 think there's a total of 635 research articles that I have in 465 00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:57,030 my library right now that I've compiled. And I am going through 466 00:27:57,030 --> 00:28:00,450 them to essentially create the content that I'm producing on 467 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,220 LinkedIn, and Instagram and Tiktok. And I love it. Because 468 00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:08,340 every single time, I actually get a chance to go through one 469 00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:11,790 more article, I go, Oh, my God. And then I want to read one 470 00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:14,700 more. And it's like, Oh, my God, I don't want to read another 471 00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:17,340 one. I'm like, Oh, my God, like, what? Why didn't I know this 472 00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:22,650 before? Or why don't you know this research existed? And I 473 00:28:22,650 --> 00:28:25,920 find that fascinating, like, I love learning something and not 474 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,050 knowing that I didn't know it, right. Like, it's like, it 475 00:28:28,050 --> 00:28:30,420 bothers me. There's like an innate thing that bothers me 476 00:28:30,420 --> 00:28:33,870 about it. So I just want to learn more. So I'm just curious 477 00:28:33,870 --> 00:28:39,240 about everything like, and, you know, I think I'm the same. I'm 478 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,870 very curious about business oriented things. So if you, you 479 00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:49,350 know, maybe talk to me about, you know, flowers, I might not 480 00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:52,590 have the best follow up questions of curiosity. But if 481 00:28:52,590 --> 00:28:55,830 you if you talk about, you know, the greatest copywriter in the 482 00:28:55,830 --> 00:28:59,400 1900s, I'd be like, Oh, who is it? Oh, what kind of framework 483 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,310 did they use? How long was he alive? Or what publisher did he 484 00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:06,180 work for? I'd have a million questions. So I definitely love 485 00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:09,780 business and I love and I'm definitely like very much in 486 00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:13,380 love with like consumer psychology and the parallel 487 00:29:13,980 --> 00:29:16,590 paths that they have in marketing. And that's been 488 00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:18,150 incredibly fascinating for me. 489 00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:22,740 Janice Porter: Well, you just basically use yourself as an 490 00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:26,340 example for what you had stated in part one, which is brilliant. 491 00:29:26,370 --> 00:29:29,430 Yeah. That you know, if it's something you're interested in 492 00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:33,510 the questions just start coming right. Yeah. Yeah, that's thank 493 00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:36,660 you for sharing that your your answer actually was was one I 494 00:29:36,660 --> 00:29:40,380 hadn't really heard very often before and maybe once before, 495 00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,980 but it's so true. I get what you're saying. That being said, 496 00:29:44,910 --> 00:29:52,560 you know, there's an argument for we may all it may be innate, 497 00:29:53,010 --> 00:29:56,130 but a lot of it gets kicked out of some people depending on 498 00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:59,490 their, you know, their path through school or their paths 499 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,910 through their Life, whatever. And then, so I don't know, like, 500 00:30:02,970 --> 00:30:05,820 I mean, there's no I'm not gonna say your answers wrong or right 501 00:30:05,850 --> 00:30:08,760 or anybody else on my shoulder, it's just really interesting 502 00:30:08,970 --> 00:30:11,730 that the majority of people actually, well, I'm not gonna 503 00:30:11,730 --> 00:30:15,240 say, it's all good. Anyway, someday I might, I might use 504 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,670 these these quotes in the book, I don't know, we'll see. I'll 505 00:30:17,670 --> 00:30:22,050 let you know. But um, but thank you, this was a delight and 506 00:30:22,050 --> 00:30:26,880 really interesting to, to talk to someone who's so passionate 507 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,490 about what they do. And I could tell that I know that there's, 508 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,780 there's as passionate and as you know, blinders on as you are 509 00:30:36,780 --> 00:30:40,680 about business and learning, I think that you have probably a 510 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,370 lot more, I know, you look fit. So you probably care about that. 511 00:30:44,490 --> 00:30:47,400 You've got a child, I know you love that. So that's a whole 512 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,220 other world for you. And I'm sure there's other things as 513 00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:54,750 well. So interesting conversation. Glad to talk to 514 00:30:54,750 --> 00:30:58,320 you. Thank you so much, you have one last business tip for my 515 00:30:58,350 --> 00:30:59,160 audience. 516 00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:06,060 Nathan Yeung: Be aware of the spotlight effect, or spotlight 517 00:31:06,060 --> 00:31:12,090 syndrome. For all you business owners, I know that it's scary 518 00:31:12,090 --> 00:31:16,230 for you to start. And likely you have something called the 519 00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:19,350 overconfidence bias, which you probably think you're smarter 520 00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:22,890 than you are, which you may or may not be. But that also lends 521 00:31:22,890 --> 00:31:26,340 itself to this idea of you're you think your failures are 522 00:31:26,340 --> 00:31:29,910 going to be bigger than they are as well. And so my biggest 523 00:31:29,910 --> 00:31:32,580 recommendation for anyone, when it just comes to business, 524 00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:36,000 especially when it comes to marketing, if you're if you're a 525 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,810 small business owner, you can mess up on marketing a whole lot 526 00:31:39,810 --> 00:31:43,020 before it really matters because you don't have the reach. You 527 00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:47,610 don't have impressions. Okay, you might mess up one or two 528 00:31:47,790 --> 00:31:50,880 very key relationships. But I'm just going to tell you right 529 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,870 now, when it comes to sales, that's one or two of 1000 that 530 00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:57,060 you're going to have to deal with. So don't worry about that. 531 00:31:57,060 --> 00:32:02,820 Don't be a perfectionist, start and iterate. And it's okay. I 532 00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:06,090 think that's my biggest thing. It's just some people get far 533 00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:09,240 too caught up on their image. And being perfect, it's not 534 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,090 worth it. spotlight effect does not affect you, you don't have 535 00:32:12,090 --> 00:32:15,180 the reach, you don't have the impression. So just go do it. Go 536 00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:18,900 have fun, and be silly with your marketing. Here's the number one 537 00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:20,970 thing that I'm going to say for everyone, this is the biggest 538 00:32:20,970 --> 00:32:24,990 tip, okay? If you don't have money, and you don't have 539 00:32:24,990 --> 00:32:29,160 distribution, you have to somehow create an impression 540 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,300 that matters. And the only way you're going to do that is by 541 00:32:33,510 --> 00:32:38,640 invoking some emotion or being a little bizarre. So don't be 542 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,760 scared about having a silly brand. Just make sure that you 543 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,240 actually care and are passionate about it. So that's the big 544 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,180 thing, right? So make sure it's memorable and own it. And that's 545 00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:50,820 okay. So don't don't try to be professional off the bat, 546 00:32:50,820 --> 00:32:53,370 especially if you don't have the money for it. Makes no sense. I 547 00:32:53,370 --> 00:32:53,940 think that's 548 00:32:53,940 --> 00:32:56,400 Janice Porter: great. And I think that my audience should go 549 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,660 and check out your website, find your audience, dot online dot 550 00:33:00,660 --> 00:33:04,680 online and go and look at the 20 tips on how to promote your 551 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,900 small business for free, because that was really useful. But 552 00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:12,600 there's lots of other cool things in there as well. But 553 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,080 that just caught my eye this morning. So thank you. Thank you 554 00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:23,940 and to my audience, you can read reach Nathan at his website, 555 00:33:23,940 --> 00:33:28,740 find your audience dot online or on LinkedIn I'm sure and I know 556 00:33:28,770 --> 00:33:33,090 that you're on LinkedIn for sure. And and remember to stay 557 00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:34,620 connected and be remembered