instinctive.

From the heart.

Instinctive.

Intuitive.

From the belly.

Intuitive.

We will flow like water.

Hello everyone.

Thank the joining us.

Tao of Pricing.

Sorry, I'll shut up.

Tao of pricing.

Or the Pooh of pricing.

Maybe that's what we'll be doing, talking about today.

Because we are.

We had a bit of a hiatus for summer and I was asking Ben,

what are we gonna talk about?

And he said, let's get political.

and we'll

Never talk about politics and religion.

I was gonna say we do, we'll do religion next week

and pets the week after.

But for today, we are gonna talk about the current

situation, at least in the UK, and I, I think, um,

you know, across Europe and other places, but this whole

cost of living crisis, uh, essentially prices going up,

particularly around energy.

Uh, and what that means for you as someone who's

trying to price your work and talk about getting

paid with your customers.

So, we're gonna talk about what we perceive or

potentially we'll perceive is the challenge at the

moment for people, uh, other than the, uh, socioeconomic.

A shit show that's going on, but uh, maybe a personal

level and a business level, what we've perceive

the challenge may be.

And then explore some thoughts and ideas based

on what we talk about on the Happy Pricing program

and also very much on this podcast, as ways to mitigate

some of these challenges.

Um, I think, you know, clearly we're living in sort

of more time of anxiety.

Um, Kind of, sort of underlying, sort of, I think

lots of people have kind of underlying sort of stress

and kind of worry and sort of unsure, uncertain about what

the, the kind of economic road ahead looks like, what

the commercial road ahead looks like, what the work

road ahead looks like.

So that kind of creating a, sort of stress and anxiety and

uncertainty and how to kind of respond, uh, to that, how

to kinda work through that.

And, you know, there might also be kind of very real

kind of recessionary things.

So you know, much less money around, um, in businesses

for businesses to buy the services is the, the services

or products of people who are in the community and or kind

of in, in this, in this orbit.

So there might be kind of very, kind of practical

things there about, you know, less opportunity, much

harder to sell things and what to, to do about that.

So on the one hand, a, a sort of a, potentially a, a general

anxiety and uncertainty and how to kind of work through

that, uh, to a kind of very practical reality that there

may be less opportunity, there may be less clients who

also partly as a consequence of anxiety and uncertainty,

partly as a consequence of there being less money

around, um, that there is kind of less opportunity.

And then in a sort of super practical thing.

And that, you know, this is particularly a, a UK

centric thing, although not exclusively, that

essentially we, you know, lots of people facing.

You know, rapidly increasing sort of costs and prices

and so the squeeze the pressure on our own budgets,

on lots of people's own budgets, much, much kind

of tighter than it was.

So there is a need actually in many, in many respects,

to work out ways, you know, is it even possible to think

about ways of, of increasing what I might earn in this

context when everybody who I'm working with, It's suffering

in a similar kind of way.

So, um, two aspects I was going to maybe simplify a bit.

Two aspects I'm thinking about.

There's how our customers are reacting to the

situation and how we're reacting to the situation.

And this situation out of our control potentially.

And I think there's maybe, I feel there's potentially also

two levels that we can talk to this, there's the, the

kind of practical, tactical, strategic level things that

you can do just generally around this idea of pricing.

Um, and also given the current specific situation, maybe

there's a, customer, you, there's a perception that

there's customers are less eager to buy things right

now, or there's a, um, there's less need in the market

for want of a better term.

Uh, and then there's the, a more, I think a personal

level of, or a emotional level of our perception of

what's happening as well or the, the depth of fear

based on our perception.

And I, and I've got this phrase of like how, what

the world, what's happening in the world around us is

just an, a mirror of our internal state and how if

it can amplify potentially what's going on inside.

'Cause they, they, you know, they talk about, we've

lived through recessions and challenging economic times

in the past and they talk about during these times there

are immense opportunities as well as difficulties.

Mm-hmm.

And either those op opportunities are very

localized in certain areas, or they're available to everyone.

It's just some people don't see them.

So that might be a bit of a contentious statement,

but at the same time, it's like, I'm trying to see if

there's things that we can help people, uh, do not only

in terms of the, the actual practical stuff, but also

emotionally, internally.

'cause we talk about money stories, talk about what

comes up to us, what.

For instance, if I make this a bit more tangible.

So if we are worried about rising prices and

we are worried about our own existential crisis

because we might not be able to pay the bills,

if we consciously bring, unconsciously bring that

energy to the conversations we have with our clients

that might not serve us.

Mm-hmm.

So there's this element of like, how can we be more

conscious, not ignore the fear, but conscious of what's

going on for us so that we're also conscious about what's

going on for other people.

And then with that knowledge, use the tactics and strategies

that we, we, you and I talk about on this podcast, on the

program, to then make that.

To, to allow us to price well.

And it isn't just about making more money and

taking advantage of people in time of crisis.

There's actually to do this in a way that's confident

and clear and makes sense to everyone in the transaction.

Um, yeah, I like that.

I like that.

I think that that's, that's a good, um, sort of thing to

note where there is kind of fear and anxiety that we have,

the extent to which that is.

Coming, you know, we are bringing that to bear when

we're having conversations with, with prospects.

You know, for sure that is going to be quite a kind of

negative energy, uh, and is not gonna help us to, uh, sell

well because it's, you know, we can't really be in the

state of, you know, walking in the shoes of the person, the

people on the other side of the table, um, you know, kind

of really understand their motivations, their intent, if

actually we are actually just sort of, kind of filled with

our own worry and anxiety.

So, you know, in the best case scenario, we could never do,

we are never gonna do our best work if we are really kind

of weighed down by that fear.

And, you know, even more likely, worst case scenario,

actually we're gonna make it much, much harder for

our clients and prospects to work with us because

we're bringing too much of that energy to the table.

So, uh, I think it is a really good thing to kind of note

that and to kind of, to try and kind of work with it and

acknowledge it so that it is there, it is given voice, it

is given a place, uh, kind of at the table at least, so

you can sort of acknowledge it and sort of put it to

one side, so you can start to kind of try and connect

more sort of positively, more constructively with the

clients who you are wanting to work with, uh, which will

of course allow you to do better work, and actually in

time will also allow you to get to a place where you are,

you are better able to earn for the value of what you do.

And that's the, in a sense, that aspect of,

you know, the fear.

And the stories, that's the stuff that fascinates

me more in a sense.

Mm.

Because it, I feels like that's, that could be a

seismic shift in someone when they're able to acknowledge

and potentially harness those emotions in a way

that's more beneficial.

And so we touch on that in the course, you know, we are not

able to go deep on it because it is quite a, a personal and

longer journey potentially for people around money stories

and beliefs around money and fears that can be, can be

accentuated when there is a perceived scarcity of money or

an actual scarcity of money.

And that's, for me, an invitation to anyone who

listens to us is like, you know, be aware of that.

'Cause if you're gonna come on a course and work with

us, that's gonna be something that's gonna hold you back

in terms of implementing anything that we talk about.

And then also having that self knowledge for me again,

is then it starts to give you an appreciation of

where other people are at.

And one of the things that Ben's talks about a lot in

the course is this idea of, uh, any kind of purchase is

fraught with uncertainty.

And now in an environment where things are even more

uncertain, that's something to be aware of in terms

of what's the emotional state of the customer.

And so if that is a issue or a problem to solve, it's

like, What do you do to solve that problem of uncertainty?

Um, I think that's it, kind of being aware that reassurance

is a, is a big part of what you are trying to do.

And I guess it depends on where you are in the sort

of buying journey, where you are in the relationship

with the client, how much kind of trust there is, how

much knowledge there is, how much familiarity there is.

Uh, because I think in the same way that we were just

talking about, you know, personally trying to find

ways of surfacing these kind of doubts, these worries

so that we're aware of them and can at least part them

a little bit to one side, to an asset, depending on

where the trust and sort of, you know, relationship

is with the people you are wanting to work with, actually

very directly bringing up some of these concerns

very directly, bringing up some of these fears so that

we can surface them and we can then collectively

put them to one side.

And of course there are also some kind of tactical

things that you can do.

Uh, depending on the types of things that people are

selling, there are things around guarantees you can do.

I, I think finding ways like that, just to help,

help reassure, uh, you know, maybe it's kind of looking

at how long you will, you know, what the engagement

period is with a client, depending on the types of

things that you are selling.

You know, so that, that might be something

that you can play with.

One of the things that we talk about on the course,

Is this idea around the five T's and a big part of

that is terms, you know.

Are there ways that we can dice up the amount of money

that it would typically cost to work together so that a

client maybe pays that over a longer period of time, not

necessarily that you were necessarily working over

a longer period of time.

Again, I.

Very, very dependent on the types of things

that you are selling.

But you know, playing with the terms, helping people buy

what you do in different ways, which maybe feel a little

bit easier for them, feel a little bit safer for them.

You know, there's lots of things around that that it's

worth experimenting with.

But again, all of this is about the extent to which

you are able to have a, you know, a, a kind of an open,

constructive, compassionate conversation with the people

that you want to work with, recognizing the worries that

they have, you know, then maybe getting to some of

those kind of tactical things.

But, you know, reassurance is the game.

Reassurance is the game anyway.

And I think that's the kind of, one of the sort of

interesting things around this, you know, you were kind

of making reference earlier on around sort of selling in a

recession and, you know, yes, there are some winners and,

and that's undoubtedly true, but in a way we don't need

to worry about that too much.

I think all we really need to kind of worry about, what,

for me, if I think about.

My own work, for example, the work that I do with

clients, well, it, it kind of, it, it's a sharpener

for me when the kind of economic climate feels like

it changes because it kind of forces me to ask myself,

you know, actually, you know, how useful am I being?

How connected am I to.

What my clients and my customers really

kind of want and need?

How, how well do I really understand those things?

Because the more that I really understand those things, the

more I can help my clients and my customers actually do

the thing that they want to do to make the change that they

want to make, I know that I'm kind of, you know, I'm being

useful, I'm being valuable, I'm protecting myself.

I'm protecting kind of future work.

And I think.

That's what all of this is about.

You know, it's about, you know, it's about sort of

doing the basics well.

And I think that's what a sort of contracting economy

forces us or invites us to do rather, you know, are

we doing the basics well?

All of the things that, you know, we might have talked

about, we might do when things are, you know, sort

of externally feel a little bit more kind of abundant.

You know, this understanding how connected we are,

how much I understand.

To what extent do I really, really understand the

change that a client or customer is wanting to make?

Do I understand the kind of tangible changes and

the intangible changes and the, the qualitative

things that they, that they're after as much as

the quantitative things?

You know, the more I do that, the more I do the

basic, I really kind of double down on those basics,

on those, on those kind of foundational things, the

better I'll understand my clients, the better I will

be able to serve them.

And then you are protecting yourself, then you are

doing good work and you are continuing to be

useful and valuable.

And sure, maybe there will be some people who are a

bit more overwhelmed in our clients and customers, some

who are a bit more overwhelmed by the kind of fear and

they're just not ready to step into an engagement now.

That may well be so.

But actually it doesn't really matter the question.

You know, what we can do is focus on the basics, focus

on the process, focus on the foundations, keep doing that,

keep being connected with our clients and customers,

and then we know we're in a position to be able to do sort

of good and valuable work.

There's this thing about, I think of pricing as

an art and as a practice and something that you

get better with practice.

And I think in times of abundance when it seems

quite easy to sell or people, customers are coming to you,

that you, it's quite easy to be quite complacent and

not feel like you need to work as hard or to have as

many conversations or be as clear because it feels

like, okay, you know, the money's gonna come and

it's, we're gonna be okay.

And then if we get to a period like this where

I think, oh wow, okay.

I might, it isn't necessarily as guaranteed that the work

will come and I might need to do a bit more, take, take

a bit more effort in this.

And so part of this I feel is like, you know, even

just thinking about us and, and selling a pricing

course and we've got one that has happening starting

at the end of the month.

It's like, it's not cheap, but at the same

time now it's probably more needed than ever.

So in someone's mind it's like, okay, how,

how do I justify this?

And so our job is to be able to give people some

real clarity and say, all right, this is the situation.

If you want to be able to be more confident and have a

bit of a more of a structure in terms of the way you're

going to price yourself, then this is going to help.

But we can only take people so far in terms of,

we can only say so much.

We can't brainwash people into doing this course.

We can only be as clear as we can based on the context that

we understand that they have.

And then, and then what I'm trying to get to here is

like, essentially we can only control what we can control.

It becomes our choice in a sense as to whether

they work with us.

It's like in a sense that we can choose for them not

to work with us if we don't work on our own clarity

and our own practice.

Or we can choose for the people who are ready to work

with us to step up in the right way, to talk about the

work in the right way, to have the conversations in

the right way, that they say, Yeah, of course I'm gonna wait

with work with you 'cause it makes sense, complete sense.

But if we don't have that conscious ability to choose,

say, all right, I won't, I am going to have these

conversations properly and with confidence, then there's

gonna be a lot of stuff that's gonna be out, even more stuff

that's gonna be outta control.

Particularly in this time, like now, when people need

more people who are more confident and more reassuring.

Mm-hmm.

This idea of creating a sense of, well, from my

head, my head is like this idea of clarity.

And for instance, with coaching for, you know,

one of the questions we've had in the past is this,

when you can't necessarily guarantee an outcome, so

already level of uncertainty.

Mm-hmm.

How do you price well?

How do you sell well?

Mm-hmm.

Because it's hard to say, Oh, you will get to here,

definitely, because it's so dependent on the person and

their own personal journey, particularly in certain

coaching circumstances.

But I, I think the thing is, there always

has to be a motivation.

If the client, if your client or customer is

not clear around their motivation, they want to

change something, right?

And maybe it's not tangible, maybe it's not quantifiable,

but they definitely want to change something.

And we have to know, I mean, actually they have

to know what that is.

They have to be connected to what that motivation

is, um, for there to be the likelihood of a sale.

And maybe it is easier to sell when there is that ambiguity

around that when sort of external confidence is higher.

For sure, that is going to be a harder sell if there

is a lot of ambiguity around that in a time when there is

kind of more, more anxiety, more worry, more uncertainty.

But I, I, I think whenever somebody chooses to buy

something, It's because they want something to change.

They're trying, you know, whether it's an internal

state or an external state or a, or a quantifiable

thing or a qualitative thing, whether it's tangible,

whether it's intangible, there is always a motivation.

There is always a need, a wish, a desire

to change something.

I am like this and I want it to be like that.

And the thing is, we always have to know what that is,

and we especially have to know what that is in times

of kind of more uncertainty.

And I think the thing is this is not about

guaranteeing an outcome.

But it is about understanding what that motivation

is, and then it is about trust, isn't it?

It's about the extent to which I trust you to

take me on a journey to resolve this problem,

to, to change this state.

And you know, it's fine.

I think that there is, it's not possible to guarantee an

outcome, but for sure we have to really understand what

their motivation is, what the actual motivation is, so that

we can, we can, we can sort of show them a journey, show

them a road where they're increasing the likelihood

of solving that problem, of changing that state.

So we, you know, I think it's less about saying, oh, but I

can't guarantee an outcome.

Fine.

But if you don't know really, Sort of deeply understand what

that motivation is, the thing that they want to change, you

are never really gonna be able to sell anyway or not easily.

And I, I think that story of change or that motivation,

how we communicate or help people, uh, identify

with that, um, the way you state the motivation or

the way you, you tell the story, in a sense that's

a one of a broader remit.

Around this work, which starts to bleed into the

whole marketing journey.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, sister, a community of ours, uh, the Better Bolder

Braver community with Frances and Simon, they talk about

these levels of consciousness.

And, and part of that is understanding you have a

problem, and articulating.

So in this case, when I say understanding your problem,

it's like being able to articulate for yourself

what the motivation is, 'cause sometimes customers

don't even know that.

They just feel that something's wrong and

they need to do something about it, particularly

in the coaching world.

So being able to tell the story of the different types

of change or existing journeys of change that people have

gone on so that they can identify with it, so that then

they can then say, all right, that is the problem, now

I'm looking for a solution.

So that when they get to the point of like, okay, I've

tried all these different solutions, I dunno, I've

done Tony Robbins, or I've done this course, or I've

done read this book, but it's still not working, I'm looking

for something different, or I'm still looking for this

change, but the solutions I haven't had so far don't

appeal or don't work.

Then you're in a position to, all right, start to

have really useful pricing conversations, because they're

there, I would assume, because you are doing something that

they haven't seen before.

And then that becomes an interesting opportunity to

talk about value and, and also you talk about trust

and, um, and the, and the change they wanna make.

So, Before we leave, uh, is there any other little

nugget or silver bullet or knowledge bomb or.

Silver nugget

Or something to ponder?

Maybe something you'd like in anyone who's just been

listening to this, some, a question you'd like them

to just think about for themselves, uh, in order

to help them think about pricing during these kind of

cost of living crisis times?

Yeah, I mean that would probably be a useful thing to

reflect on before we started.

We don't need to reflect.

That's not possible.

The thing, the thing which actually was sort of coming

up, Uh, which was the thing that you mentioned at the

beginning actually, is, you know, to what extent are, is

your own anxiety, your own worry, your own fears about,

about what may or may not be happening in the world

out there, to what extent are those sort of clouds of

despair or worry, or whatever they might be, are they sort

of infiltrating your own ideas about what's possible

over the coming months?

You know, how much are you being.

Um, kind of, sort of swayed and influenced by those

worries of what might be happening out there?

And is that an opportunity to get those kind of

fears on the table?

Yeah.

I think linked to that for me is, is how, those

are the whole thing.

There's thoughts, feelings, and facts.

And like, how much Is your fear based in a fact in terms

of like, have you done a budget, have you seen actually

how much money is going out?

Do you actually have a buffer given that the prices going

up and, but you still, you know, you're not in the

shit as much as the news is trying to make you feel.

Mm-hmm.

Just to assess that really, rather than go straight

into, oh my God, everything's going down the drain because

I, I know from experience and also talking to people

that sometimes the, our fears are actually more

amplified than the reality.

Yeah.

Is telling us.

There is that quote, isn't there?

The worst things in my life never happened to me.

Boom.

And on that delicious knowledge nugget,

Silver knowledge nuggets.

Um, I hope you've all found that useful, or at least

entertaining, or at least you've been able to wash

the dishes to some new, some sounds in your ear.

Um, until next time, everyone take care.

Thank you.

And, um, that was fun as always.

Thank you, Ben.

Goodbye.

Bye-bye.