Heather Shannon (00:01.358)

Hey everybody, welcome to today's workshop. So we are gonna talk about a cool topic that I haven't really talked about before or in any other workshops that I've ever done. So we're gonna talk about getting to know and understand your partner's intimate needs. And I first wanna start by explaining what do I even mean by that? Like what are your partner's intimate needs? So.

It's broad, you know, it's broad in the sense that intimacy is not just sex. It's not just physical. It's about love. It's about connection. It's about feeling seen and understood and like somebody's really listening and that applies to sex too, you know, so it all connects together.

And you can kind of pause for a moment. I'm gonna invite you to pause and just reflect on what are your intimate needs?

Just think about that for a second. So if you tune into, hmm, when do I feel close? When do I feel connected?

When do we have fun together? And this could be anyone, by the way. Whoever it is that you're wanting to understand or wanting to feel more understood by.

Heather Shannon (01:39.874)

you know, what really makes this person tick, right? It's kind of understanding their psychology. So, you know, I'm closing my eyes. You're welcome to do that too. And just kind of imagine, visualize.

get curious, so yeah. And another question I really like is how do you wanna feel, right? How do you wanna feel when you're with this person?

And it could be, you know, so many different things. Maybe you want to feel cherished or special, chosen, prioritized. Maybe you are looking to them for, you know, some compassion or empathy.

Heather Shannon (02:39.725)

So you can kind of just allow yourself, imagine, imagine those good feelings.

And some of it, I think a lot of it, is how do we feel about ourselves when we're with this person?

Because a lot of how we feel is based on how we feel with ourselves. I heard it said that all of our relationships are just relationships with our own thoughts. So that's pretty interesting, right? It's our thought about the person. It's our thoughts about how they treat us. It's our thoughts about our own worth.

There's so much there. So we're gonna get to figure out like how can we understand someone else's? So I think it is always a good start to understand our own needs a little bit because that kind of primes us for empathy towards the other person. And I think that's huge part of the answer. So let's talk first about creating a safe space. I have a little bit of a sore throat today so I might be drinking more water during this than usual.

Heather Shannon (03:59.341)

Okay. So creating a safe space can mean a few different things. So let's talk first about creating a safe space for conversation.

And this can be tricky, just because I work with couples a lot and the conversations, you know, can be tough. People are busy, people are stressed. They might not be in the mood. They might not have sort of the mental, emotional bandwidth to have a tough conversation or to have a deep conversation or to have an emotional conversation.

And so there can be a feeling sometimes of, I gotta find the right time. Oh, it's so hard to the right time. And then it could be like, oh, we're just like having fun. And it's like hearted and it's connected. And like, I don't wanna like rock the boat or bring anything up too heavy. So those are some of the thoughts. And so just wanna acknowledge that and just kind of validate that, that those thoughts can come up. And then the question is, how do we work with it, right?

So some strategies for even just like having a conversation about intimacy, for just kind of getting real with each other about, you hey, if we're, we're feeling more like roommates lately, like let's, let's acknowledge that. Like, what do we want to shift? What do we think is causing this? You know? What needs, you know, if we're bringing it back to our topic, what needs are not feeling that?

what needs are feeling really met. I think it's important to do both, right? Because if we only focus on the needs being met, we might be kind of carrying some resentment of those unmet ones, you know, if we're not acknowledging them. And if we only focus on what's not being met, then we're ignoring a lot of the wonderful things about our relationship and that can start to feel heavy or it can start to feel...

Heather Shannon (06:06.366)

like we're just putting a negative lens on everything. So kind of taking a balanced look. But I think having this type of conversation can be a really good place to start. And one of the things I'm gonna encourage you to do is what the Gottman Relationship Institute calls the softened startup. So the Gottman Institute, they're like basically the foremost relationship researchers in the US. They train a lot of couples counselors like myself.

And everything they do is research based, which is pretty cool. So they talk about the softened startup as a way to eliminate or reduce 90 % of fights. Meaning like when things start to escalate or get a little bit heated, doesn't mean you're not going to disagree.

But it's like if you could do one thing and it's gonna reduce 90 % of your fights, I would get really good at that one thing. And so it's the softened startup. And so basically what it means is like how do you bring something up, right? So I'm gonna use a business example today. I had a contractor that I hired. He was like, well, I've got good news and bad news. He's like, well, the good news is this. I'm like, that sounds great. Okay, that's what we're hoping for.

He's like, well, the bad news is your product is going to, you you're never gonna get another client again after they do this or whatever. I was like, what? That was like really bad delivery. So I'm just sitting there thinking like, okay. And so we really want to think about what tone are we creating right off the bat, right? So if he had said something like,

hey, this other piece here that I'm helping you with, I think there's a real opportunity. And I'm not sure if we implement it now or later, but here's some of my thoughts. Here's how we can do it quicker. Here's how we can do it more effectively in terms of time and cost. If he presented it that way, I'd be like, my gosh, fantastic. And you've even thought about how we're gonna implement it. Like, I'm sold, right? But because he came in like, wow.

Heather Shannon (08:21.707)

this terrible thing is gonna happen, it sets a tone. And so we just wanna be mindful of that. So if we come in hot and we're just like, you like you never communicate your feelings, right? Like I have a need to know how you're feeling and you don't communicate them. It's probably not gonna go right really well. So that's what we would call a harsh startup. So a softened startup would be, I love when you talk about your feelings and I know,

It's not always easy for you, but it really helps me feel close. And I'm wondering, you what can we do to make it easier for you? So different, right? So if you're curious, I'm gonna give you guys a bunch of resources in this workshop too. I'm a big resource person. If you're curious about like, how can I get really good at this style of communication?

Check out the Gottman's book, it's called 10 Lessons to Transform Your Marriage. And it is so concrete and so practical. I'm a big audio book person. I know so many of us have really short attention spans these days. I do think it's worth having the physical copy because you're able to see a transcript of real couples working. They actually have 10 examples, it's fantastic.

working through common areas of conflict. And if you do get this book, don't get too hung up on what topic they're talking about, if it's money or if someone cheated or if it's parenting or whatever, don't get too hung up on that. It's more about how do they communicate. So some examples might be saying how you feel. Hey, I'm noticing I'm feeling really tense right now or I notice that I'm feeling worried.

Right, you're naming your feeling, validating your partner's feeling could be another great thing to do in a conversation. And so as you go through this, all these things that are moving towards deeper understanding, reconciling, compromising, at the right points, because we want to first understand before we get into the solution, get plus signs. And then everything we do that's taking us away from that goal gets in minus signs.

Heather Shannon (10:44.627)

And so we can see so clearly the types of comments that get plus signs and the type that get minus signs. So strongly encourage that. It'll reinforce some of this concept of the soft and startup too. I obviously gave you a couple examples, but it's going to take some practice, but just starting to like state your positive intention or compliment your partner at the beginning instead of coming in hot with the criticism is going to make a world of difference. Okay.

So that's part of creating a safe space. There's many other things too, but I feel like let's go with the one that solves 90 % of it, right? Okay, and I also have some podcast episodes about this too. So there's one about communicating sensitively and openly about sex, and there's one about the real reason we're not talking about sex. So I think those are episodes two, and I might get this wrong, but it's like somewhere in the 60s, maybe 61. So check those out if you want.

further guidance on that. Okay, so then the next step is, okay, now we're in the conversation, we got it started softly and gently, is staying curious. So I feel like this is why I'm a good therapist, basically. Yes, I've done lots of training, yes, I have lots of years of experience, but it's the curiosity because what I see with my couples that I work with is,

someone will say something and someone might say something defensive back. And then someone will say like, oh, okay, well, I just feel not connected to you. Right. And the partner will be like, well, I'm trying. And it's like, no, no, we're going to stay curious. Oh, you don't feel connected to me. Why? Like, what do you think is kind of causing that for you? I didn't realize maybe, and I'd like to know more. I cannot tell you how much this does for closeness and intimacy for someone to feel like.

Wow, you're just, you're listening? You're not getting defensive? You're just like holding space for my feelings and wanting to know more? It's like, wow. And I hope we get to a point in our society where it's not like, wow, because that becomes the norm.

Heather Shannon (13:01.833)

And if you're reality TV show fan like myself, this recent episode of The Bachelor with Joey, he is so good at this. So if you want to see some examples, every time a woman is crying or upset or feeling insecure and jealous, he is like, okay, tell me more and I totally get it. Just very validating, right? So we want to listen well and we want to lean in to understanding our partner's emotions. So I hope that makes sense.

The other thing with staying curious is that we want to kind of go a layer deeper. So a lot of times, you we start out by kind of being like, okay, well, what do you need? I don't know, more affection would be good. And then we leave it. like, okay, cool, you want more affection? No, no. I'm giving you all my therapist secrets right now. So it's not just like, okay, we want more of this. But it's like, oh, okay. So like, what does affection mean to you?

Um, like a little shoulder squeeze, is it a long embrace? Is it, um, kissing or maybe even making out? Is it, you know, cuddling on the couch? Is it cuddling naked? Right. There's, there's so many things that could be affection. If that's a request your partner is making. And so what happens is usually, um, when people are doing this stuff, like without my guidance, they just kind of think like, affection, but then they don't operationalize it.

So they don't think, what does that look like? What am I gonna be thinking of as I go about my day to make sure that I'm doing more affection? Whereas if someone says, when we're sitting on the couch every night watching TV, I love just like a knee squeeze or kind of like rubbing my leg. That is so concrete. Then the person can imagine it. And when they're imagining it, they're much more likely to do it, right? Because they know when, they know where, and they know what they're gonna do to who.

Right, and so the whole picture has been painted. So you can kind of ask yourself that, like am I clear on sort of the who, what, when, where, why, right? So you can use that as a skill to help cement it in your mind. Okay, so that's staying curious. And I know I used an example about affection, but this applies to everything related to intimacy. So when your partner's stressed, okay, what's the stressor? And is there a thought that goes with the stressor? And is there, you know,

Heather Shannon (15:25.515)

trigger a situation for you, you know? So just like really being curious. And sometimes I think we're afraid to because we don't want to like open up Pandora's box where all of this crap is going to come out. But usually that's not the case. When we really hold the space, it tends to be very calming and it tends to be really informative. And then you know each other better. And then look at you, you're building intimacy already. Okay.

So let's move on to the next thing that we're gonna check in on. So tuning into expressions and moods. And this fits really well with the staying curious piece. So you might notice someone's energy, right? Are they kind of like, woohoo, yeah, let's go. Or are they kind of like, you know? And so these are nonverbal cues. And this

Also, so this is a skill that makes you go with emotions and it makes you go with sex, right? So you notice the sounds, you notice the positions and the postures, you notice the facial expressions, right? And you can start to kind of have like a mental map of like, this is that mood, that's the other mood. And this is not to be like, ooh, we're walking on eggshells trying to be so careful. This is more like a deep presence.

right, to really think about what is going on with my partner. And what I see is that often we're so kind of in our own defensiveness or we're in our own worry or our own like hurry to solve that we're missing a lot of that. And maybe we're not even like looking at them. Maybe we're kind of looking elsewhere, kind of absentmindedly or just like so kind of in our own world that we're missing it, right?

Those are moments that can make you feel so much closer, right? Because humans are not perfect, as we know. It's like by definition, being human is not perfect. And so you might say, hey, what's wrong? And your partner might say, nothing. And you're like, I know something's wrong. And I think we've all been in that situation, right? So that's kind of a perfect example where it's like,

Heather Shannon (17:47.795)

Okay, the expression and the vibe and the tone are not matching the words, right? And so that's something you can say. if that's something I would call my clients out, you can do it in a nice way. Like, one thing I'll say a lot is like, your face is saying a lot. What's going on there? So you can steal that one. You can kind of be like, okay, I hear the words you're saying.

that's not quite matching, you know, just state your observation. And this is another area where you can go with a positive intention or kind of a softened startup of like, you know, it be like, babe, you okay? Like, I wanna be able to support you, you know? And then I will also add, if someone doesn't wanna let you in, if someone doesn't wanna open up, as we're talking about in this case, that's on them, right? Like, you can't, we can't control other people.

And so then we just allow it and we go take care of ourselves. So if we're feeling stressed or sad about it, then we go manage our own emotions, because that's at least within our own control. Yeah, so and then tuning into expressions and sounds and moods is a way to feel closer. And then it is something that applies to sex too. And this does require that you're both being kind of authentic, you know, when you're being sexual or starting to get sexual.

And that could be something to talk about too, when you have the conversation, which don't do them at the same time. The conversation about, know, are you thinking orgasms or are you actually into our sex or whatever? Don't do that during sex. Don't do that when it's happening. That is a separate conversation when you're in a platonic situation. but yeah, so check with authenticity. You know, a lot of us, so, so many, feel some kind of performance pressure.

When it comes to sex, whether it's making certain sounds or doing things we know our partner likes or acting like we orgasmed when we didn't, you know, like that, that can be distancing. And it's interesting, right? Cause we're usually doing it for the other person, but what's happening? They're not, they're not seeing us. They're not understanding us.

Heather Shannon (20:13.951)

we're not sharing more pleasure. And so just starting to realize that, water break.

Heather Shannon (20:26.709)

just starting to realize that can be so impactful. And even though I get a lot of nice comments about like, you're just very like approachable and authentic and whatever. And I'm like, thank you. I still absolutely find moments where I'm like, ooh, that was a people pleaser moment. Or that was a moment where I was like so tense trying to like be present to the other person that I was like kind of ignoring my own body. I'm like, I don't.

need to be carrying all this tension. I gotta take care of myself too. And so there's layers to it, right? There might be kind of the obvious ways in which we're not being tuned in to ourselves. And I also think the more we tune into ourselves, the more we are able to tune into the other person. So doing things like a body scan can be really helpful.

That's like a meditation, kind of a guided meditation. You can find it probably on any meditation app. It's a really common one. I happen to like a meditation app called Insight, I-N-S-I-G-H-T, timer, T-I-M-E-R, Insight, timer. Lots and lots of free meditations. You can just type in body scan at the top. It'll show you like what are the highly rated ones, and then you go for it. But so tuning into your body can be really helpful. Noticing your partner's kind of signs with their body.

doing some sensual activities where there's no attachment to orgasm or sounding a certain way. Layla Martin has some on her YouTube channel that are like a yoni massage or a lingam massage. And so basically this is a genital massage for your partner. It's super present and super mindful. And so you can really.

not be focused, it's more one directional, so you're not thinking about your own pleasure as much when you're giving, and so can really tune into them. So I love that, it's sort of a way to get better at this. Okay, so now I have a couple, they're not cheat codes, so don't get too excited, but they're like ways to put a little bit of structure around some of this, okay? So I'm gonna give you a couple more resources. Okay, so the first thing we're gonna talk about is attachment styles, and this is another one.

Heather Shannon (22:48.602)

where I have a whole podcast episode about this. There's whole books written about it. There's a really popular one called Attached, The New Science of Adult Attachment. What I love about this book is that it really clicks for people. It's really a very clear framework. You can start to see your patterns and tendencies. I don't find the quiz that they have in there to be particularly accurate.

or helpful, I would just say read it and just notice what tendencies you relate to. That's really what matters because there's a lot of fluidity with attachment. We're gonna have different types of attaching with different people. So it might be like, you your relationship with your dad, you feel super secure, you know he's got your back, you're gonna, you know, answer calls whenever. Okay, great. And then there might be, there might be a relationship with someone you're newly dating.

where you feel more anxiously attached, right? Or someone you just slept with who maybe didn't text you the next day and you're like, right? And feeling like needy and thinking about it all the time. That maybe is gonna be more of the anxious attachment. And then there's avoidant where it could be like, you know, I don't feel like intimacy is super safe. Like people, they bring drama, it's complicated. I just feel like I do better on my own. Maybe I am lonely, but it could be like,

I don't want to give up my independence. So that's going to be maybe more on the avoidance side where like at the beginning of a new relationship, it might be really fun and you still love the intimacy and the closeness. And then maybe something happens where I say like shit gets real and you're like, ooh, the condom broke. Now what do we do? Or it could be like, ooh, your mom is a real challenge.

I don't know, I don't wanna keep going down this path. And so there can be kind of a like, you know, I'm just gonna avoid some of that. So it's like the name sounds, the anxious and avoidant and secure are the three main styles. So the secure one, it feels like, yeah, it's just like, okay, it's easy to be close. It's easy to feel connected. You can think of someone who's like a relationship person. Oftentimes serial monogamous might be secure. Not always, but often. And so that's kind of something to...

Heather Shannon (25:16.752)

tune into, like what are your intimacy needs? What are your partner's intimacy needs when it comes to attachment? So if you find out, hey, my partner's a little bit more avoidant, they might need some more space. And that might be something to negotiate and to realize it's not about you per se, but it could be partially about their history. It could be partially about you or not you, but like the connection between you. And what often happens is, you know, people who are anxious feel like,

No one can kind of meet my needs and I'm so needy. And then they often pair up with an avoidant person, kind of unfortunately, who feels like, you know, I'm worried I'm going to get smothered and it's not going to feel safe and it's going to be too intense and emotional. And then this person who's trying to get their needs met and feels anxious is like, you touch me and talk to me and love me. And this person is like, it's happening, you know? And so they reinforce each other's stories, unfortunately.

But if you know, if those two people become aware, like, oh, when I kind of more of my own needs or get some needs met by friends or practice meditation and build confidence and security, this person naturally wants to be closer. You know, it's almost like when I'm giving them space, they kind of close the gap a little bit. And then this person might also realize.

if I meet this person, my partner over there halfway, she doesn't freak out and come into my space. Or he doesn't freak out and come into my space. And so then you get the people where it's like, okay, cool. So like if we both get a little out of our comfort zone, this is an interesting one, it'll start to feel more comfortable. that attachment is very interesting that way. But understanding your partner's needs allows you to bring more kind of intentionality to it.

Okay, and then the other one that you probably have heard of or maybe have heard of is attachment styles. So attachment styles are the way we receive love. So this is a huge part of intimacy. And what I think is kind of interesting about this is the efficiency of it, which might surprise you. But it could be if somebody, like my top love language is touch. And if somebody's love language who I'm in partnership with,

Heather Shannon (27:36.564)

is gifts, which is probably the lowest for me. not that I don't like gifts, but it's like, if this person is putting all this energy into like, Ooh, what is Heather going to like? When am going to get her? And I'm like, thank you. That was sweet. And they're like, spent a week and I chronicled this or that. And I spent this much money. And I'm like, I probably would have just rather have like a cuddle. you know, that's what can happen where it's like this person's exerting like a hundred percent energy trying to just like send me love. Right. And I'm like,

maybe I received like 20 % of it, because it's just like not my thing. And so that's what I mean by the efficiency. It's like when we can get on like the right wavelength with our partner when it comes to love language, it's like 100 % of our love is landing, which I think is like a cute and beautiful thing. So taking time to understand that could be really awesome. And there is a book called The Five Love Languages, and so you can check that out as well. It's kind of become like a pop culture thing. People now put that stuff on their dating profiles.

So it's pretty cool. And then the last thing I want to add is a little bit more sexually. There's a yes, no, maybe list. So this is another sort of structured way where you can get to know your partner's intimacy needs. And the list will include kind of widely accepted sexual activities like kissing or fondling or grabbing someone's butt or oral sex, know, intercourse.

And then there's also different flavors of other sexual activities. So it could be things that are more on a sensual, tantra spectrum. It could be, blindfolds, a kind of sensory play. And it can also be more exploring the taboo and exploring some kink or BDSM things. And so to kind of have a structure where you can go through it together and find out like, hey, like what would mean more of your needs? What are you curious about?

feels fun for you or connective, that can be truly amazing. So I hope that all of this was super helpful. If you guys have questions, please feel free to reach out. I'm here for it and I'm happy to help. So I hope you guys got something out of this and I'll talk to you soon.