David:

[0:01] Culture eats strategy for breakfast. That's a quote by Peter Drucker. And I've seen firsthand that plans are worthless without willing and capable people to carry it out. And so if you want a business to thrive, you have to have a culture that's foundational. And if you do not intentionally design your culture, your values, and how you do business, then an unintended culture will be developed, which may or may not be good. and it's generally not good. And so I brought Michael Wiseman on today from Higher Ground Life Consultancy to discuss the importance of culture and what you can do to upgrade your current business culture. So Michael, welcome. And to start off, tell me a little bit about yourself and how you ended up today helping people establish better cultures in the business.

Michael:

[0:49] Yeah, well, it's great to be with you, David. Thank you for having me on the program today. I love talking about culture in general. I've spent a lot of years of my life studying it from the inside and the outside looking in. And I'll just tell you that my career began many, many years ago. I grew up watching Bewitched on television, if any of your listeners even remember that show. but Darren Stevens was the ad guy and I was so captivated by his ability to be creative. And of course he had a wife that could make anything better. Um, but, uh, that was actually my impetus for advertising. I was always drawn towards storytelling as, as a young kid. And so that was a profession that I just found myself in. And what I didn't realize going in was the, what was the toxicity of the business climate around it you know advertising and marketing tends to be a very transactional business um and it's kind of the what have you done for me lately and so fast forward i spent about 42 years of my life in marketing communications i was a ceo of an advertising firm and we had you know national clients.

Michael:

[2:04] And I got to have a kind of a bird's eye view of corporate culture. You know, I spent much of my time in C-suite executives offices talking about their business. And what I realized is that advertising can only do so much, you know, in terms of moving the fortunes of a company forward. And many, many, many senior executives in organizations look to messaging and marketing as the currency that determines sales growth. And what I found in studying kind of the good, the bad, and the ugly of corporate culture was that that focus, that hypersensitivity and focus on messaging was completely misplaced. And i i saw firsthand so many senior executives ceos cmos name the acronym you want.

Michael:

[3:05] That couldn't understand why they couldn't sustain growth or why one year sales would be up and the next year sales would be down and much of the focus was on messaging well we just need better messaging we need a better advertising campaign what i came to realize um in in being in that environment is that their focus was in the wrong place. You know, I have an old expression. You may have heard it before. If mom and dad are fighting, the kids know, you know? And so I saw that happening inside of, of corporate culture, disengaged employees, unhappiness, no real true north in terms of purpose or vision. I can't tell you how many times I would sit across from a CEO and say, what would happen if your business disappeared tomorrow?

Michael:

[3:54] Would anybody care? And I got that deer in the headlight stare so many times, and I realized that that hyper-focus on messaging and marketing and sales and transactions, that was just the wrong filter. What was really going on in corporate culture, and it's at an all-time hyper low today in terms of trust, was that there was dysfunction going on inside of the relationships that existed inside the business and out. So in the same way the kids know if mom and dad are fighting, employees know if there's discord in senior management. Customers know if there's discord or apathy among the employee groups.

Michael:

[4:38] And so it was this continuing spiral. And I had kind of an epiphany in working with a guy who was close to me in my own business.

Michael:

[4:49] His MBA was in behavioral psychology and social science. And we'd have these ongoing discussions. And he would often say, Mike, we're all focused on the wrong thing. If we want to help sustain growth in organizations, we need to look at interpersonal relationship building. Marketing is not the filter that we need to look through. It's human behavior. What's really going on here? And what was really going on there is that their trust was being eroded from the inside out, and it permeated entire organizational structure. It permeated relationships between brands and their customers or clients. And it was this kind of revolving door that was being created where behavior was really much more important than any sales message, even products and services. You know, I wrote a book in 2017 called Choosing Higher Ground, and I was trying to contrast the difference between what I called the transactional economy and the values economy. And what had happened in business is that businesses lost their way.

Michael:

[6:01] And where in the old days, customers or consumers would hold a business accountable if, you know, their product or service didn't meet their expectations. Today, they're holding the leaders of organizations accountable. And now with the proliferation of choice, you know, in the old days, when I grew up, there were three television stations and a couple radio stations. And now there's thousands of media opportunities for all of us. go.

David:

[6:31] Somewhere else yeah go

Michael:

[6:32] There so i don't i don't need your business you need mine but you need to connect with me that's the story that we kept hearing from consumers and customers is treat me like a human being show me that you care about me beyond the transaction and by the way what does your business stand for and are you um creating a positive image in the community uh or are you a drain on the community and self-centered in in nature and so i did a lot of research because i i was uh i was about 30 years into my career at that time started doing some social science research and really began to focus my career i started to exit the day-to-day transactional business that advertising is and i started looking from a different filter and i found my

Michael:

[7:21] conversations beginning to switch when I was sitting across from a leader in an organization. I wasn't talking about their products. I wasn't talking about their services. We used to call that the sea of sameness, right?

Michael:

[7:38] But what do you stand for? Why are you there? Why are you leading this company? Do you have strong relationships internally with your employees? Do they know that you care about them? And you can see corporate cultures that thrive and you can see corporate cultures that struggle. What I had to convince many very jaded CEOs about was that values was the new currency.

David:

[8:08] Right?

Michael:

[8:10] It's not about a transaction. It's not about a one-time sale. It's about will your organization do what it takes to do in interpersonal relationships and earn trust over time? You can't buy it. There's that expression that trust takes decades to build, seconds to lose, and forever to try to rebuild. And there's so many examples of that in corporate America where companies just lost their way. So, um, my, my answer to that was, um, I, I made a determination that I was not going to have the same conversation. I wasn't going to walk in the door as an ad guy, uh, you know, wanting to, you know, shine a light on a bad organization. Um, I wanted to have a different type of conversation. And so I created a, uh, a different model of relationship building built on five principles of what we know it takes to build trust in an interpersonal relationship. I call them the five C's.

David:

[9:16] Okay. Before we get into that, we'll get into that in just a little bit. So you basically went from sales and trying to sell the company. Yeah. To say, we need to focus more on relationships within the company and relationships with the customers.

Michael:

[9:32] Yes, that's exactly right.

David:

[9:33] And then that's landed you in this niche of we're going to build relationships, build trust, and improve the company culture. Yeah.

Michael:

[9:42] And we know, David, there's so much secondary research that's been available for decades now on the direct link between highly trusted organizations and low trust organizations, not just in terms of the feel good that you might expect coming from a good relationship, how you feel in a good relationship. But even for the most jaded, financially driven organization, there's plenty of research that demonstrates that if you have high trust inside your organization, you're going to outperform your competitors financially in shareholder return. So trust is not a nice-to-have. Trust is a must-have, especially now.

David:

[10:27] Yes. That reminds me of one of my earlier guests, Rick Johnson, I think it was probably episode six, where God talked to him and was like, you are pursuing the fruit. Quit pursuing the fruit and start pursuing the root. And the root meaning take care of the people, invest in people. And that's, it's interesting. That's what he did. He switched and just started investing in people. And yeah, he essentially has a super culture and very profitable and pay things off and does a lot better now with a lot less time because you're creating a culture of people doing that.

Michael:

[11:03] You know, we talk in similar language then because I relate it to, you know, so many consultants or specialists come in and I view it as a tree, right? And where we tend to spend most of our time is trying to prune the branches. When what we should be doing is, is nurturing the soil, right? So that strong roots can grow. And that's what organizations, that's, that's the missing ingredient right now is that there's so much time spent on, you know, the perks. Oh, if we've got employee issues, then we need to, you know, we need to have a picnic every three weeks, or we need to throw more money and bonuses at people. That's really not it. people have human needs and those aren't being met in many organizations. And what I spend my time doing now is tilling the soil, is creating good soil so that those roots can go deep inside of an organization and that outside the organization, you know, we call that customer loyalty and satisfaction and repeat sales. So if you can grow that deep root system and have healthy soil, then all of the fruit is going to come.

David:

[12:21] Okay. So you mentioned about five buckets or five pillars. What are those five areas that you encourage people in their culture?

Michael:

[12:34] Yes. These are all interpersonal relationship building dimensions of trust. And I realized in the late evening when I was praying, Lord, if I'm going to go into these organizations, I want to bring godly character there, whether they're secular or non-secular. It didn't matter to me. The principles were the same. And he actually kind of gave me a revelation in the middle of the night. And as I was going through the five C's, as I call them, I was measuring them against Christ. And I realized after that conversation with him that this was my way to bring his principles of relational trust building into any work environment. So the first one is competence, which basically says, can you deliver on what you say? But competence goes beyond skills, right? Showing up on time, studying up, being a good practitioner of whatever it is you're, you're there to do in your organization that has a lot more to do with self awareness and the emotional intelligence, you know, many organizations you've probably seen them, I've seen them where there is a highly talented individual.

Michael:

[13:53] But that's where it stops. Nobody wants to be around them because they have no social skills whatsoever. So competence is first and foremost. The second is consistency. Can I rely on you? You know, over time, there's so many folks that we deal with and we are even guilty of it ourselves of kind of the Jekyll and Hyde syndrome. You know, if you don't, if somebody's showing up inconsistently in a relationship with you, you're not leaning in, wanting to draw closer. You start beginning to lean away because you're not sure who's going to show up, you know, from day to day. We've seen leaders demonstrate that, you know, you don't know who's walking in the door. It could be your boss. It could be a coworker. It could be your spouse. You know, if that consistency isn't there, um, then the ability to go deeper into a relationship is going to be stunted. So I call competence.

David:

[14:52] Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, you know, I am in a manufacturing world. If, if you don't have consistency, if some days you produce good product and some days you produce bad product, the next person down the line, they, they can't do their job consistently because there's so many things that step one is dependent is the prerequisite step two to step three to step four. Right. And so, yeah, consistency is important at every level of the organization.

Michael:

[15:17] And, you know, I often say, look, you know, these are values that we're talking about, interpersonal values, and we don't live out our values in isolation. We were created as relational beings. We're communal by nature. Isolation is not the norm. Relationship is the norm. And as you say, if you have a group of people, they may be highly competent people in a team, but if there's inconsistent performance, it ripples. Everybody falls down. It affects everybody around you.

David:

[15:49] Absolutely.

Michael:

[15:50] So I call competence and consistency the functional values in building trust. Then we begin to shift. candor is the next c and candor is all about transparency and communication it's about honesty and authenticity and a word that is rarely used in corporate america and that's the word vulnerability you know we're taught from an early age don't be vulnerable because that's perceived as weakness and in a corporate environment you're going to get eaten alive and i see this in effect with many women who are in leadership positions. They're very afraid to be vulnerable because they've been taken so much advantage of in the corporate world for so long that they back off and they don't really share what's going on inside. They're not transparent. And that's that first value that begins to get outside of yourself, right? Because competency and consistency tend to be self-focused, candor is now how are you dealing with others, right? So am I open in my communication with you? Do you feel like I'm honest? If you don't feel like I'm honest, then our relationship is going to begin to dissipate. It's not going to grow. The fourth C is concern.

Michael:

[17:13] And that's both true in a corporate environment and an interpersonal environment. And that's the value that says, how do I know that you care about me beyond what you say?

David:

[17:24] Yeah, I can see that because people can recognize that by how you interact with them. If you really care about them or you just care about get the work done.

Michael:

[17:34] That's it.

David:

[17:35] That's right. Very much so. Because if you just cared about getting the work done and they got in a wreck that day or a flat tire and you don't care, it's like get moving. That doesn't help much with the culture, does it?

Michael:

[17:47] No. And, uh, you know, David, there was a survey done a couple of years ago that, that stated that, um, 70% of all employees across organizations in the U S were disengaged. And the number one reason that they were disengaged is that they didn't feel like they were being recognized.

David:

[18:07] Appreciation.

Michael:

[18:08] Appreciated. Right. They didn't feel that there was concern for them outside of them being an economic agent to drive sales. It was kind of like but what about my needs how does my organization show that they care about me beyond the paycheck because i've i've sat with so many people david that they came into an organization believing one thing they got inside and found out that they were compromising their values for the paycheck and many of them would tell me in tears i stayed too long and now i'm trapped and I can't get out, but I'm miserable and I'm carrying that home with me.

David:

[18:47] That's too bad.

Michael:

[18:49] Yeah. So those lines of, of life at work and life at home, they blur, you know, you're carrying one to the other.

Michael:

[18:58] And then the final value is what we call connection or commitment. And that's really all about going that extra mile and it measures the depth of relationships. And this one takes effort and time. You know, you can be competent. You can be consistent and reliable in performance. You can be open and honest and transparent in your communications. And even on occasion show that you care about somebody. But the real defining factor is, I like to picture the old couple sitting on the park bench that have been married for years. They almost are at the point where they can finish each other's sentences.

Michael:

[19:45] That's that commitment that you make to be there through thick and thin. And that takes a real commitment and it takes you outside of yourself, into that great idea that great idea of serving others and that's where the transformation, really occurs is when you you're making a conscious choice every day of how am i going to show up and so i keep those five c's in my brain every time i'm i'm with somebody an individual or i'm walking into a business organization and by by the way i'm sure you can see this too.

Michael:

[20:24] Highly functional organizations and trusting organizations or dysfunctional organizations it's palpable you can feel it when you walk into a corporate entity or if you're in a retail environment you know whether the employees are happy or not you know whether they really believe what they're saying to you or not.

David:

[20:46] Yes. And we probably don't have time to go into a lot, but you said something about you have a platform that you help, like a 21-day challenge that you help companies build these values into their employees. Right. Give me one or two sentences. What is that?

Michael:

[21:02] Yeah, it's called Cultivate, and it's an online program for behavioral change.

Michael:

[21:09] It's getting together a group of employees around a central theme. And typically it's coming out of the the values of trust so we have uh a what we call the five c's challenges uh that's that's one of the series that we've put together but we'll go in and we'll get a group of people and uh we'll rally around the idea of uh you know what does concern look like inside the organization uh this is based on the principles out of the book um uh atomic habits right it's all about small daily actions taken over time that build a behavior so imagine having 40 or 50 or 100 employees working on a 21 day online challenge that has to do with this idea of how do we show concern how do we how do we show people that we care about each other and then they practice it every day and there's inspiration and encouragement and it's it's It's gamified, so it's fun to participate. And what we've found is that many employee organizations, this becomes their favorite part of the day. It starts their day in a positive, intentional way.

Michael:

[22:22] That's one of the primary drivers of the challenges is that many of us go into our day without intention. And boy, if you don't, the day just takes over and you get carried into it, into the abyss. So the idea of pausing and being intentional is.

Michael:

[22:40] About how you're going to show up and what you're going to practice that day really makes a world of difference. And we've seen personal and professional growth and change come out of that.

David:

[22:49] I can see that because, I mean, you have two main things there. First of all, you have leadership leading the way because the leadership has to be involved to get that platform in there to get everybody involved. So you know that they're on board to want to give them a better culture. And then it's every day. Let's refocus. Let's refocus. Here's your challenge for today. That's really good.

Michael:

[23:12] Yeah, it's great when, you know, it's beautiful because whether you've been at an organization for 20 years or whether you're the new guy that's two days in, if you're both practicing those same principles, you're now a cohesive culture.

David:

[23:26] It's a bond together because maybe you both struggle with the same thing or you're both really good at the same thing. It's, it's another way to bond between them and that bonds help production go well too.

Michael:

[23:38] Yeah.

David:

[23:39] So, yeah. Well, we need, we need to wrap up here quickly, but, uh, you've talked about a lot of really good things. One focusing question for you. What, what is one challenge or inspirational thought that you like my listeners to take away today and take action on to make a difference in their culture? Yeah.

Michael:

[23:59] I would, I kind of landed on it just a second ago. I really think that if we all, um, took a pause as we walk into each day, even in our own home, when we wake up, it's like, um, you know, realize that you have a choice to make today. And by the way, each of us is a unique, a unique creation. Right. And, um, we have, um, our actions have ramifications like ripples, like a pebble in a pond, you know, that spreads out. So, um, uh, actually Elvis Presley had a great quote years ago. I use them in presentations. People don't believe it's him when I don't let them know who it is, but he says, you know, um, values are like fingerprints and we leave them all over those that we touch. So that's the challenge for people. What's your intention today? How are you going to show up and how are your values going to touch the lives of those around you in a positive way to make their lives better?

David:

[25:05] I like that. Values as fingerprints. Because yeah, you touch a lot of things throughout the day. Very good. Michael, thank you very much for your time and encouragement today and you listeners your next steps uh to be doers and not just hears is to one check out the show notes we're gonna have links in there of the different sites and how to contact michael and how to learn more about him and get look his platform um sign up for the newsletter because that's a great way to communicate with us and to get communication on future episodes and finally book a call with me if you are if you're stuck to get unstuck and move forward in your business um and friends that's all for now trust you've been inspired to redeem your business redeem your time, buy it back, and walk worthy of God's great name. Bye for now.