1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,420 So companies that are really up to 1 million, um, Dollars, uh, annual revenues. 2 00:00:06,870 --> 00:00:10,350 We scale them up to eight figures at least, uh, in 3 00:00:10,350 --> 00:00:11,850 usually a timeframe of one year. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,939 So we basically operate their growth. 5 00:00:14,970 --> 00:00:19,680 We accelerate and strategize, uh, how we going to, to scale them. 6 00:00:19,770 --> 00:00:23,939 And, uh, we have a team that supports this, this growth, um, 7 00:00:23,945 --> 00:00:25,110 throughout the whole process. 8 00:00:25,140 --> 00:00:25,350 Yeah. 9 00:00:25,740 --> 00:00:28,800 So we take these companies from six figures all the way to eight figures 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,460 and, uh, we do it in the D2C e-com space. 11 00:00:38,006 --> 00:00:41,846 Welcome to the e-Commerce podcast with me your host, Matt Edmundson. 12 00:00:41,846 --> 00:00:46,676 Now, this is a show that is all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 13 00:00:46,676 --> 00:00:47,336 Wow. 14 00:00:47,336 --> 00:00:51,956 And to help us do just that today I'm chatting with Leo 15 00:00:51,956 --> 00:00:53,666 Caracas from Jump Ventures. 16 00:00:54,066 --> 00:00:57,816 About breaking down his million dollar playbook, a deep dive 17 00:00:57,846 --> 00:00:59,946 into entrepreneurial growth. 18 00:01:00,336 --> 00:01:03,756 But before Leo and I jump into our conversation, uh, let me 19 00:01:03,756 --> 00:01:06,666 share with you some podcast pics. 20 00:01:06,756 --> 00:01:07,206 Oh yeah. 21 00:01:07,206 --> 00:01:10,146 Some previous episodes that I think you're gonna enjoy. 22 00:01:10,506 --> 00:01:14,376 Check out the episode with Maureen Mwangi called From Startup to Growth, 23 00:01:14,376 --> 00:01:16,626 which was a fantastic conversation. 24 00:01:16,656 --> 00:01:18,336 And also the three top. 25 00:01:18,356 --> 00:01:23,486 Tips for startup success with Heikki Haldre, which was Heikki is just such a 26 00:01:23,486 --> 00:01:25,106 legend and I still remember that episode. 27 00:01:25,106 --> 00:01:27,026 So it is in the archive. 28 00:01:27,026 --> 00:01:31,466 You can access our podcast pics and our entire archive for free on the 29 00:01:31,466 --> 00:01:34,716 website, which is ecommerce-podcast.net. 30 00:01:35,816 --> 00:01:37,816 That's ecommerce-podcast.net. 31 00:01:38,066 --> 00:01:41,126 Plus, if you're there and you haven't done so already, Make sure you sign 32 00:01:41,126 --> 00:01:44,786 up to the newsletter and we get an email with all of this good stuff. 33 00:01:44,786 --> 00:01:47,786 The podcast picks the show notes, the trans, well, not, you don't want the 34 00:01:47,786 --> 00:01:52,196 transcripts, but you get the show notes, uh, you get the links, uh, to the guests 35 00:01:52,201 --> 00:01:55,136 and all that sort of good stuff, no cost to you, which is pretty amazing. 36 00:01:55,136 --> 00:01:57,836 So make sure you sign up for that now. 37 00:01:58,676 --> 00:02:01,046 Are you struggling to grow your e-commerce business? 38 00:02:01,346 --> 00:02:04,646 Do you feel like you are constantly spinning your wheels trying to 39 00:02:04,646 --> 00:02:06,956 figure out what to focus on next? 40 00:02:06,956 --> 00:02:08,816 Well, we have been there, let me tell you. 41 00:02:08,936 --> 00:02:12,506 And I know how frustrating it can be. 42 00:02:12,836 --> 00:02:14,066 That's why. 43 00:02:14,691 --> 00:02:15,381 Oh, yes. 44 00:02:15,471 --> 00:02:18,111 I'm a partner in e-commerce cohort. 45 00:02:18,141 --> 00:02:22,101 I, I'm a big believer in what's going on and we have something called 46 00:02:22,551 --> 00:02:27,831 cycles, a free training, uh, which you can access, uh, at e-commerce 47 00:02:27,831 --> 00:02:30,031 cycles.com, which is the sort of the. 48 00:02:30,696 --> 00:02:35,286 Well, I guess it's my, my Inner Secrets on how I'd build e-commerce businesses, 49 00:02:35,316 --> 00:02:37,206 uh, and the, the system that we use here. 50 00:02:37,206 --> 00:02:40,206 So make sure you check that out. 51 00:02:40,206 --> 00:02:43,326 It's for free at e-commerce cycles.com. 52 00:02:43,476 --> 00:02:44,796 Now, that's the show sponsor. 53 00:02:44,801 --> 00:02:45,296 Let's talk. 54 00:02:46,141 --> 00:02:52,141 About today's guest, but before I read his bio, let me just give a 55 00:02:52,141 --> 00:02:56,431 shout out to John Roman, who has connected both me and Leo today. 56 00:02:56,791 --> 00:02:59,731 John Roman has, as you will know if you're a frequent listen, has 57 00:02:59,731 --> 00:03:02,101 also been a guest on the show. 58 00:03:02,461 --> 00:03:06,481 Uh, and we talked about how to use content to connect with your community. 59 00:03:06,601 --> 00:03:09,991 And also, a couple of weeks ago, actually, at the time of recording, I hooked up. 60 00:03:10,026 --> 00:03:15,096 With John at Subs, Sumit, where we met in person, and what a legend that guy is. 61 00:03:15,366 --> 00:03:20,836 So do check out that episode, uh, and also John's website, which is battlbox.com. 62 00:03:20,856 --> 00:03:22,266 But that's battle without an E. 63 00:03:22,416 --> 00:03:23,046 Oh, yes. 64 00:03:23,496 --> 00:03:25,296 Now let's talk about Leo. 65 00:03:25,606 --> 00:03:30,976 An entrepreneurial dynamo who's propelled over 50 companies to new heights. 66 00:03:31,276 --> 00:03:35,236 As a partner at Jump Ventures, he's mastered the art of scaling direct 67 00:03:35,236 --> 00:03:40,006 to consumer businesses from a modest six figure enterprise to a booming 68 00:03:40,006 --> 00:03:45,286 eight figure powerhouse, driven by a single mission to elevate founders. 69 00:03:45,786 --> 00:03:47,406 Uh, and their companies. 70 00:03:47,436 --> 00:03:50,736 Leo has become a leading light in the world of business growth. 71 00:03:51,096 --> 00:03:54,366 So I'm excited because one, he was recommended by John, who's a legend. 72 00:03:54,371 --> 00:03:59,856 And two, uh, he's got a truckload of experience that we can jump into and 73 00:03:59,856 --> 00:04:03,996 pick his brains on, uh, as we get into his playbook and unearth his 74 00:04:03,996 --> 00:04:05,976 secret to strategies for success. 75 00:04:05,976 --> 00:04:07,446 Leo, welcome to the show, man. 76 00:04:07,446 --> 00:04:08,316 Great to have you here. 77 00:04:08,316 --> 00:04:09,066 How are you doing 78 00:04:10,026 --> 00:04:10,416 great. 79 00:04:10,416 --> 00:04:11,226 Thanks a lot, Matt. 80 00:04:11,376 --> 00:04:12,786 It's a, it's a good day to be in the show. 81 00:04:15,071 --> 00:04:16,451 It is a good day to be in the show. 82 00:04:16,451 --> 00:04:16,991 I like that. 83 00:04:16,991 --> 00:04:18,281 That should be a slogan actually. 84 00:04:18,281 --> 00:04:19,481 It's a good day to be in the show. 85 00:04:19,841 --> 00:04:21,251 Whereabouts in the world are you? 86 00:04:22,361 --> 00:04:23,261 I'm in the Netherlands. 87 00:04:23,531 --> 00:04:26,211 It's a city called Utrecht. 88 00:04:26,231 --> 00:04:28,191 We are based in Amsterdam, but I live in Utrecht. 89 00:04:28,211 --> 00:04:29,501 I'm at my house today. 90 00:04:30,281 --> 00:04:31,151 Oh, fantastic. 91 00:04:31,181 --> 00:04:32,051 Fantastic. 92 00:04:32,111 --> 00:04:34,691 And are you enjoying the weather boom that we seem to be 93 00:04:34,691 --> 00:04:35,981 getting in the UK at the moment? 94 00:04:36,566 --> 00:04:37,046 That's it. 95 00:04:37,046 --> 00:04:38,636 That's why it's a good day to be in the show. 96 00:04:38,636 --> 00:04:41,306 It's, uh, quite nice in the, in the background. 97 00:04:41,306 --> 00:04:43,796 It's a nice, uh, nice weather. 98 00:04:43,856 --> 00:04:45,686 So, uh, yeah, I'm happy. 99 00:04:46,286 --> 00:04:47,006 Fantastic. 100 00:04:47,006 --> 00:04:47,696 Fantastic. 101 00:04:48,026 --> 00:04:51,506 And how do you know, um, I mean, we gave a shout out to John. 102 00:04:51,506 --> 00:04:52,166 He's connectors. 103 00:04:52,171 --> 00:04:53,246 How do you know John? 104 00:04:54,416 --> 00:04:58,616 Yeah, so John is part of one of my mastermind groups, uh, uh, that we, 105 00:04:58,676 --> 00:05:02,426 we discuss everything about E-com and how, how to scale companies. 106 00:05:02,876 --> 00:05:05,606 He's in one of the groups that I'm part of, and. 107 00:05:06,281 --> 00:05:07,151 True experience. 108 00:05:07,151 --> 00:05:10,901 This is how we, we actually connected with like-minded people and, and 109 00:05:10,901 --> 00:05:15,851 people that really have, uh, nice tips, tricks and experiences from the past 110 00:05:15,856 --> 00:05:17,471 on, on how to grow E-com business. 111 00:05:18,011 --> 00:05:18,731 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 112 00:05:18,791 --> 00:05:21,791 And Ima, well, I imagine Johns of all of them really, uh, 113 00:05:21,791 --> 00:05:23,501 those helpful tips and tricks. 114 00:05:23,831 --> 00:05:25,781 How long have you, um, been doing masterminds? 115 00:05:25,781 --> 00:05:26,981 Have you find those to be useful? 116 00:05:28,136 --> 00:05:29,066 Oh, very useful. 117 00:05:29,066 --> 00:05:32,696 Not only Masterminds, but uh, as a whole being part of communities 118 00:05:32,696 --> 00:05:37,106 that, uh, are sharing, uh, lessons on entrepreneurship that doesn't, it doesn't 119 00:05:37,111 --> 00:05:40,556 really matter for me if it's only e-com or of entrepreneurship as a whole. 120 00:05:41,066 --> 00:05:47,096 Um, it, I've been part of it for the last six years almost, uh, immediately 121 00:05:47,096 --> 00:05:49,586 as we, we started our first, uh, startup. 122 00:05:50,186 --> 00:05:50,546 Yeah. 123 00:05:50,666 --> 00:05:51,266 Fantastic. 124 00:05:51,266 --> 00:05:53,396 And how do you find these different communities? 125 00:05:53,396 --> 00:05:53,456 I. 126 00:05:55,046 --> 00:05:59,516 Yeah, so basically, um, it works through referral. 127 00:05:59,606 --> 00:06:04,286 So it, uh, the ones that we really found out that were great communities are 128 00:06:04,286 --> 00:06:06,626 the ones that get, uh, referred to us. 129 00:06:07,076 --> 00:06:11,606 And this is how we actually, uh, build, uh, really strong relationships with, 130 00:06:11,666 --> 00:06:17,391 uh, with other interpreters or, uh, Actually get a lot of value from, so 131 00:06:17,391 --> 00:06:18,831 are the ones that we get referred to. 132 00:06:18,921 --> 00:06:22,701 So from the start, the ones that we get referred to and get exposed are 133 00:06:22,701 --> 00:06:25,401 the ones that, uh, that we stick out and, and stay the longest. 134 00:06:25,971 --> 00:06:26,841 That's interesting. 135 00:06:26,961 --> 00:06:27,531 That's interesting. 136 00:06:27,711 --> 00:06:31,491 I like you, I'm a big fan of masterminds, so I'm always kind of curious how people 137 00:06:31,491 --> 00:06:33,621 find them and, and how they get involved. 138 00:06:33,681 --> 00:06:36,111 Um, so tell me about Jump Ventures. 139 00:06:36,111 --> 00:06:37,101 What is Jump Ventures? 140 00:06:37,101 --> 00:06:37,801 What do you guys do? 141 00:06:38,741 --> 00:06:42,431 So Jump Ventures is a sort of an atypical venture capital. 142 00:06:42,581 --> 00:06:42,821 Uh mm-hmm. 143 00:06:43,121 --> 00:06:45,431 It's something between an incubator and a venture capital. 144 00:06:45,851 --> 00:06:51,401 We basically accelerate companies, uh, that are focused on the e-commerce 145 00:06:51,401 --> 00:06:53,831 business, uh, D2C space mm-hmm. 146 00:06:54,071 --> 00:06:55,571 That are within the six figures. 147 00:06:55,571 --> 00:07:01,991 So companies that are really up to 1 million, um, Dollars, uh, annual revenues. 148 00:07:02,441 --> 00:07:05,921 We scale them up to eight figures at least, uh, in 149 00:07:05,921 --> 00:07:07,421 usually a timeframe of one year. 150 00:07:07,931 --> 00:07:10,511 So we basically operate their growth. 151 00:07:10,541 --> 00:07:15,251 We accelerate and strategize, uh, how we going to, to scale them. 152 00:07:15,341 --> 00:07:19,511 And, uh, we have a team that supports this, this growth, um, 153 00:07:19,516 --> 00:07:20,681 throughout the whole process. 154 00:07:20,711 --> 00:07:20,921 Yeah. 155 00:07:21,311 --> 00:07:24,371 So we take these companies from six figures all the way to eight figures 156 00:07:24,731 --> 00:07:28,031 and, uh, we do it in the D2C e-com space. 157 00:07:29,171 --> 00:07:29,861 But you. 158 00:07:30,551 --> 00:07:34,811 I mean, I, I don't want to just gloss over what you had just said because, um, 159 00:07:35,381 --> 00:07:38,531 six figures to eight figures in one year. 160 00:07:39,221 --> 00:07:39,461 Yeah. 161 00:07:39,461 --> 00:07:44,171 Um, I, there's a lot of people listening to the show who can, if I can be so bold 162 00:07:44,171 --> 00:07:49,661 as to say, probably are dreaming about that kind of growth, um, but has been. 163 00:07:50,201 --> 00:07:54,911 But it has proven elusive, uh, let's say, uh, to many a business over the years. 164 00:07:54,911 --> 00:07:56,411 So how do you do that? 165 00:07:56,411 --> 00:08:00,531 I mean, we talk about your playbook, but is is there a, is there sort of. 166 00:08:01,016 --> 00:08:01,076 Yeah. 167 00:08:02,216 --> 00:08:05,516 Strategies that are, are they different for every company or are there some 168 00:08:05,516 --> 00:08:07,136 commonalities amongst what you do? 169 00:08:08,066 --> 00:08:10,496 Yeah, so that's the playbook, that's the commonalities, right. 170 00:08:10,496 --> 00:08:14,996 So what we, what we learned in the past is we started our own 171 00:08:14,996 --> 00:08:17,636 company called Go Case back in 2015. 172 00:08:17,636 --> 00:08:20,816 And we took this company bootstrapped to, uh, eight 173 00:08:20,816 --> 00:08:22,556 figures basically in three years. 174 00:08:22,916 --> 00:08:26,846 And throughout this process of getting, uh, Go Case to eight figures, we 175 00:08:26,851 --> 00:08:29,756 actually had done thousands of tests and. 176 00:08:30,096 --> 00:08:33,186 The surprise, uh, only a few tests really matter. 177 00:08:33,186 --> 00:08:34,806 Only a few tests really move the needle. 178 00:08:34,806 --> 00:08:34,896 Right. 179 00:08:35,286 --> 00:08:39,696 And basically what we got good at was, uh, our prioritization process. 180 00:08:39,726 --> 00:08:39,816 Mm-hmm. 181 00:08:40,176 --> 00:08:43,356 And knowing of course, from experience, what are the most 182 00:08:43,361 --> 00:08:45,306 important things to move a needle? 183 00:08:45,306 --> 00:08:49,566 What is going to create the highest impact with the minimum effort? 184 00:08:49,826 --> 00:08:50,096 Yeah. 185 00:08:50,486 --> 00:08:55,286 So when we, when we did this with Go Case, we basically started coaching, 186 00:08:55,286 --> 00:08:59,696 mentoring other companies just for the joy of it, uh, two years ago. 187 00:08:59,966 --> 00:09:00,026 Yeah. 188 00:09:00,031 --> 00:09:04,286 And seeing if our strategy, our playbook was replicable and we 189 00:09:04,286 --> 00:09:05,786 found out was highly replicable. 190 00:09:05,786 --> 00:09:08,966 So replicable that we had a company last year that, unfortunately, I cannot 191 00:09:08,966 --> 00:09:13,151 mention specifics because of NDA, but we took them from 1 million to 20 192 00:09:13,151 --> 00:09:15,206 million in basically one, one year time. 193 00:09:15,566 --> 00:09:20,636 So, um, Everything that we learned and that we, we applied with Go Case. 194 00:09:20,936 --> 00:09:24,896 We started teaching and applying to other companies and seeing how far 195 00:09:24,901 --> 00:09:26,846 can we take, uh, uh, those companies. 196 00:09:26,846 --> 00:09:29,456 And it's important to say, of course. 197 00:09:30,611 --> 00:09:33,311 Um, you cannot do this with any company, right. 198 00:09:33,311 --> 00:09:36,521 It's not, not any company can go from six figures to eight figures 199 00:09:36,941 --> 00:09:39,791 quite fast or even get there at all. 200 00:09:39,851 --> 00:09:40,151 Yeah. 201 00:09:40,511 --> 00:09:44,501 But we found, uh, common traits and KPIs that really show the ones who 202 00:09:44,501 --> 00:09:47,381 have potential and the ones who are going to have a tough time doing it. 203 00:09:47,651 --> 00:09:50,141 So we prioritize the ones who do have that potential. 204 00:09:50,381 --> 00:09:50,591 Right. 205 00:09:51,611 --> 00:09:53,681 So what would you look for then, in a company? 206 00:09:53,681 --> 00:09:57,191 I mean, what are some of those, um, how would you prioritize, you 207 00:09:57,191 --> 00:09:59,381 know, how do you know which ones are gonna make it and which ones aren't? 208 00:10:00,536 --> 00:10:04,196 So we basically look at four KPIs and the first KPI. 209 00:10:05,021 --> 00:10:07,181 Will tell us if there is product market fit. 210 00:10:07,751 --> 00:10:08,531 It's reviews. 211 00:10:09,161 --> 00:10:13,121 So when we find companies with a significant amount of reviews that are 212 00:10:13,631 --> 00:10:17,291 a 4.6, 4.7 out of five stars mm-hmm. 213 00:10:17,591 --> 00:10:20,291 We see, hey, there's a product validation here. 214 00:10:20,351 --> 00:10:21,881 There should be a product market fit. 215 00:10:22,271 --> 00:10:24,131 This company should be highly scalable. 216 00:10:24,401 --> 00:10:28,061 If we see companies that are in the four range, four, four out 217 00:10:28,061 --> 00:10:28,961 of five, I say, look, there's. 218 00:10:29,521 --> 00:10:32,461 Problems here, either in the product, in the experience or whatever. 219 00:10:32,461 --> 00:10:35,791 But this company cannot scale very sustainably or cannot 220 00:10:35,791 --> 00:10:37,621 scale, have easy ride scaling. 221 00:10:37,621 --> 00:10:42,931 So we, we first and foremost try to find companies which have a product market fit. 222 00:10:42,956 --> 00:10:43,016 Yeah. 223 00:10:43,106 --> 00:10:43,196 Mm-hmm. 224 00:10:44,606 --> 00:10:47,606 The second point, uh, is about repurchase rate. 225 00:10:47,666 --> 00:10:52,226 So if we find companies that have around 30% repurchase rates, uh, we 226 00:10:52,226 --> 00:10:56,486 see that these companies have a very good, um, probability to continuously 227 00:10:56,486 --> 00:10:59,006 sell and to have a profitable growth. 228 00:10:59,766 --> 00:11:05,286 So if we are around 30%, we see we can still grow this, uh, there is a room to, 229 00:11:05,316 --> 00:11:09,936 to continuously evolve over the months and there's a potential to, uh, scale. 230 00:11:09,996 --> 00:11:10,146 Yeah. 231 00:11:10,506 --> 00:11:16,146 If it's basically a one product, uh, kind of company, then this, you'll see that 232 00:11:16,146 --> 00:11:18,936 the reportage rate is going to be 5%, 10%. 233 00:11:18,941 --> 00:11:19,036 Yeah. 234 00:11:19,136 --> 00:11:23,076 And yeah, it's going to be a very tough road to actually scale this 235 00:11:23,076 --> 00:11:24,996 profitably with, uh, advertisement. 236 00:11:25,116 --> 00:11:25,326 Yeah. 237 00:11:25,326 --> 00:11:25,446 Mm-hmm. 238 00:11:26,351 --> 00:11:30,041 The third KPI that we look at is AOV. 239 00:11:30,221 --> 00:11:35,771 Usually we try to work with an AOV that is around 50 US dollars and 240 00:11:35,771 --> 00:11:37,841 can go all the way to 75 US dollars. 241 00:11:38,321 --> 00:11:42,641 We have worked with companies in the past that have a 20 to 25, and the 242 00:11:42,646 --> 00:11:44,171 most important thing for us there is. 243 00:11:44,491 --> 00:11:49,261 Knowing that there's a path to grow this company to a 50 to $75. 244 00:11:49,381 --> 00:11:49,471 Mm-hmm. 245 00:11:49,716 --> 00:11:51,031 Even if they're not there today. 246 00:11:51,331 --> 00:11:55,051 But if it is a company that is way below or doesn't have the potential 247 00:11:55,051 --> 00:11:58,561 to grow because it doesn't have the portfolio to do so, then we 248 00:11:58,561 --> 00:12:00,241 say this is going to be too tough. 249 00:12:00,631 --> 00:12:02,581 Uh, especially, uh, if it's. 250 00:12:02,851 --> 00:12:07,981 Based on paid media, paid media, uh, costs just keep increasing year over year. 251 00:12:07,981 --> 00:12:11,161 And if you don't have an AOV that can work towards with that, 252 00:12:11,461 --> 00:12:12,391 it's going to be very tough. 253 00:12:12,391 --> 00:12:16,351 So if we see an AOV that is, can go all the way to 75. 254 00:12:16,411 --> 00:12:20,041 Yeah, we say there's potential here and 75 and above we say, yeah, there's 255 00:12:20,041 --> 00:12:21,451 definitely something to work with. 256 00:12:22,051 --> 00:12:23,911 And the last one is the thermometer. 257 00:12:23,941 --> 00:12:26,341 The thermometer for us is the conversion rate. 258 00:12:26,461 --> 00:12:26,761 Yeah. 259 00:12:27,566 --> 00:12:30,506 It will really depend on the context of the traffic. 260 00:12:30,536 --> 00:12:34,226 How much paid media was acquired, how much organic traffic is there, 261 00:12:34,226 --> 00:12:38,996 which channel was used, how much in terms of volume of traffic. 262 00:12:39,001 --> 00:12:43,436 There is year over year, but when we look at something that has 3% 263 00:12:43,441 --> 00:12:46,616 and above conversion rate, we see there's still room to grow here. 264 00:12:46,856 --> 00:12:49,526 There's still room to to push paid media traffic here. 265 00:12:49,851 --> 00:12:52,731 And, uh, this, they are in a comfortable situation. 266 00:12:52,731 --> 00:12:57,801 If we already see something that is 2% and below and hasn't invested too much on, 267 00:12:57,801 --> 00:13:02,841 on acquiring, uh, traffic before then we see this is a tricky situation to scale. 268 00:13:02,961 --> 00:13:10,251 Yeah, so the four KPIs are really, uh, reviews, star reviews, uh, repurchase 269 00:13:10,251 --> 00:13:12,601 rate, conversion rate, and AOV. 270 00:13:14,291 --> 00:13:14,741 Wow. 271 00:13:15,131 --> 00:13:19,691 And I what, what I find fascinating, Leo, about what you've just said is there 272 00:13:19,691 --> 00:13:21,911 aren't many people that come on the show. 273 00:13:24,206 --> 00:13:28,076 Talk about the number of reviews as one of the primary factors 274 00:13:28,076 --> 00:13:31,916 for valuing a business, um, or valuing a business, uh, in terms of 275 00:13:32,276 --> 00:13:35,546 understanding whether this business is go, has got any kind of longevity. 276 00:13:35,726 --> 00:13:40,046 Um, and so you said you're, you're looking for companies with a significant 277 00:13:40,051 --> 00:13:45,476 number of reviews, which are sort of 4.6, 4.7 stars out of five and above. 278 00:13:45,481 --> 00:13:45,536 Yeah. 279 00:13:46,496 --> 00:13:47,756 Which is a validation point. 280 00:13:47,846 --> 00:13:52,136 Um, what's a significant number of reviews look like for you? 281 00:13:52,976 --> 00:13:54,776 I would say 500 is enough. 282 00:13:54,866 --> 00:13:58,316 If you have 500 plus reviews, that's enough to get a validation. 283 00:13:58,856 --> 00:13:59,006 Yeah. 284 00:13:59,756 --> 00:14:00,056 Okay. 285 00:14:00,056 --> 00:14:05,246 So let's assume then that I have a company with, uh, let's say 2 million turnover. 286 00:14:05,246 --> 00:14:09,236 I've got, um, I, I meet the requirements on all of the things that you talk about. 287 00:14:09,836 --> 00:14:11,756 Um, I've got reviews. 288 00:14:11,756 --> 00:14:16,616 My repurchase rate may be as, as high as 60%, um, average order value. 289 00:14:17,711 --> 00:14:18,791 Maybe a little bit high. 290 00:14:18,821 --> 00:14:23,351 Well, let's go with $75 and conversion rate year is above 3%. 291 00:14:23,351 --> 00:14:26,891 So we're singing, we're, we're, you know, the choirs and the angels 292 00:14:26,891 --> 00:14:30,071 are happy because of the four KPIs, um, have, have been met. 293 00:14:30,071 --> 00:14:36,371 What, what do you do then to take that type of company through such rapid growth? 294 00:14:37,541 --> 00:14:39,131 Yeah, so. 295 00:14:40,166 --> 00:14:44,906 Basically, if we have those KPIs, we establish this is a very 296 00:14:44,906 --> 00:14:46,766 high potential company to grow. 297 00:14:47,186 --> 00:14:49,706 And then we try to understand why they haven't grown before. 298 00:14:49,766 --> 00:14:54,236 And usually the case is you have founders, uh, or founding team 299 00:14:54,656 --> 00:14:57,386 that is very focused on product. 300 00:14:57,586 --> 00:14:59,386 Experience and customers. 301 00:14:59,446 --> 00:15:02,866 So they know really well why they started a company, why they 302 00:15:02,866 --> 00:15:04,126 created the products and so forth. 303 00:15:04,426 --> 00:15:09,376 But they have no clue how to navigate the paid media, uh, growth 304 00:15:09,376 --> 00:15:14,831 sites, how to strategize pricing, how to think about, um, Their 305 00:15:14,861 --> 00:15:16,631 portfolio increase for repurchase. 306 00:15:16,631 --> 00:15:20,201 So all the growth mentality is not really in the back of their mind. 307 00:15:20,201 --> 00:15:20,411 Yeah. 308 00:15:20,681 --> 00:15:20,771 Mm-hmm. 309 00:15:21,011 --> 00:15:24,221 So when we see that is that is when we come in, we say there's really 310 00:15:24,221 --> 00:15:28,151 a synergy here of what we can offer and how we can, uh, help, uh, these 311 00:15:28,151 --> 00:15:30,131 companies and what they currently lack. 312 00:15:30,331 --> 00:15:30,571 Yeah. 313 00:15:30,961 --> 00:15:34,591 So the first thing we see, uh, and we try to understand is the overall 314 00:15:34,591 --> 00:15:40,111 growth strategy in terms of channels, uh, revenue buckets and tech levels. 315 00:15:40,111 --> 00:15:44,971 So is this a, is this a company that can be, uh, scaled through TikTok? 316 00:15:44,976 --> 00:15:47,911 Is this a company that can only be scaled via, via meta channels? 317 00:15:48,301 --> 00:15:52,406 Is this a company that, uh, Has grown via Facebook communities. 318 00:15:52,826 --> 00:15:56,336 What was the primary channel and what are the, the, the channels that I 319 00:15:56,336 --> 00:16:00,746 can see immediately, uh, being the main driver of, of the growth, which 320 00:16:00,751 --> 00:16:04,886 usually it's comprised of meta, it's usually a meta, uh, uh, company. 321 00:16:04,886 --> 00:16:05,126 Yeah. 322 00:16:05,486 --> 00:16:08,456 But nowadays we have very good experiences of. 323 00:16:08,476 --> 00:16:11,716 Scaling and, and having a very good portion of the revenue 324 00:16:11,716 --> 00:16:13,006 coming also from TikTok. 325 00:16:13,036 --> 00:16:13,306 Yeah. 326 00:16:13,576 --> 00:16:16,306 So we understand how much, uh, uh, farther they can go. 327 00:16:16,306 --> 00:16:17,266 If we also go on TikTok. 328 00:16:17,536 --> 00:16:17,776 Yeah. 329 00:16:18,196 --> 00:16:20,446 Then we try to understand which revenue buckets they have. 330 00:16:20,536 --> 00:16:23,146 Are they a subscription, uh, based company? 331 00:16:23,416 --> 00:16:25,396 Are they a one-time purchase? 332 00:16:26,116 --> 00:16:31,526 Um, How can we really understand, uh, their, their revenue buckets? 333 00:16:31,556 --> 00:16:36,506 So we think on a growth level, which are the channels that we can push, which are 334 00:16:36,506 --> 00:16:38,106 the types of revenue they, they can get. 335 00:16:38,406 --> 00:16:38,826 Mm-hmm. 336 00:16:38,911 --> 00:16:41,936 Uh, and tech and in the tech level, what are the tools that they have 337 00:16:41,936 --> 00:16:44,816 to, to implement those, those kind of, uh, those kind of things. 338 00:16:44,821 --> 00:16:44,906 Yeah. 339 00:16:44,906 --> 00:16:48,176 So it's just laying the ground of saying what is available? 340 00:16:48,386 --> 00:16:52,946 What do we, from our experience see that is, uh, attainable to those companies? 341 00:16:52,946 --> 00:16:56,486 And what are they not grasping because they lack the experience that we have. 342 00:16:56,771 --> 00:16:58,001 This is just the lay of the land. 343 00:16:58,061 --> 00:16:58,331 Yeah. 344 00:16:58,811 --> 00:17:03,131 Then it comes the second step, which is one of the most impactful steps 345 00:17:03,761 --> 00:17:10,091 we understand, uh, that it's nowadays you are playing a content game. 346 00:17:10,976 --> 00:17:17,096 So paid media growth on an e-commerce D2C level for us is a content game. 347 00:17:17,126 --> 00:17:17,666 Mm-hmm. 348 00:17:17,906 --> 00:17:21,746 And what we try to create with these companies is a content machine. 349 00:17:22,316 --> 00:17:28,316 How do you constantly spit out content that has converting messages that 350 00:17:28,466 --> 00:17:33,986 does the trick in attracting the right clicks and can actually get a very, 351 00:17:34,046 --> 00:17:36,476 uh, profitable, uh, acquisition cost? 352 00:17:36,566 --> 00:17:39,776 So trying to understand from the brand. 353 00:17:40,541 --> 00:17:43,361 Which assets they have in terms of, I have influencers. 354 00:17:43,361 --> 00:17:46,631 I have UGC, I have my own, uh, internal team. 355 00:17:46,631 --> 00:17:47,471 I have a studio. 356 00:17:47,921 --> 00:17:51,071 Which assets do you have to actually create content and how 357 00:17:51,071 --> 00:17:53,771 can we turn this into a machine? 358 00:17:54,191 --> 00:17:54,281 Mm-hmm. 359 00:17:54,521 --> 00:17:59,471 To constantly spit out content that will be tested, that will be competing against, 360 00:17:59,471 --> 00:18:02,471 uh, the content you, you, you had before. 361 00:18:02,711 --> 00:18:06,581 And that can achieve the highest level of KPIs, which for us is. 362 00:18:07,211 --> 00:18:09,341 Oh, uh, click to rate and CPC. 363 00:18:09,701 --> 00:18:10,001 Yeah. 364 00:18:10,091 --> 00:18:10,181 Mm-hmm. 365 00:18:10,421 --> 00:18:14,201 This is how you constantly evolve a process to speed out content and 366 00:18:14,201 --> 00:18:18,911 actually attract traffic at a cheap rate and therefore have, uh, scale 367 00:18:18,911 --> 00:18:21,221 and a affordable acquisition cost. 368 00:18:21,581 --> 00:18:25,121 This is one of the points that most entrepreneurs and 369 00:18:25,121 --> 00:18:26,921 most brands don't understand. 370 00:18:27,381 --> 00:18:29,451 You are playing nowadays a content game. 371 00:18:29,481 --> 00:18:33,471 If you're not good at content, if you cannot create amazing content, you 372 00:18:33,471 --> 00:18:37,701 cannot have amazing results, so you don't go to the next level once you. 373 00:18:38,591 --> 00:18:39,641 Unleash that part. 374 00:18:40,091 --> 00:18:40,721 Okay. 375 00:18:40,811 --> 00:18:41,981 I get a lot of traffic. 376 00:18:42,221 --> 00:18:44,861 I get a way that I can sell the cus uh, to customers. 377 00:18:44,861 --> 00:18:49,211 I get different concepts of how I can sell to a customer, and you 378 00:18:49,211 --> 00:18:50,861 get, you unleash the next level. 379 00:18:50,921 --> 00:18:51,041 Yeah. 380 00:18:51,041 --> 00:18:55,151 So the content, uh, strategy is a big point and it's a second point. 381 00:18:56,201 --> 00:19:01,091 The third point, and it's almost as equally important as the, 382 00:19:01,096 --> 00:19:04,781 as the content, but it comes later, is the commercial plan. 383 00:19:06,296 --> 00:19:08,966 How are we doing with pricing? 384 00:19:09,026 --> 00:19:10,736 How are we doing with bundling? 385 00:19:10,736 --> 00:19:16,856 How can we think about, uh, promotions and merchandising for, uh, repurchase? 386 00:19:16,856 --> 00:19:20,866 So how do we strategize so we can constantly improve the AOV 387 00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:23,666 and we can constantly improve the conversion rate as well. 388 00:19:23,996 --> 00:19:28,166 Because as you start to push traffic to your website, you will see that the, 389 00:19:28,166 --> 00:19:32,996 those initial KPIs that we had before are gonna go down and you need your. 390 00:19:33,461 --> 00:19:37,571 Your job is to kind of maintain a healthy balance between all these KPIs to make 391 00:19:37,571 --> 00:19:38,981 sure that you have a sustainable growth. 392 00:19:39,371 --> 00:19:39,461 Mm-hmm. 393 00:19:39,701 --> 00:19:42,851 So making sure that you constantly can improve your aov. 394 00:19:43,091 --> 00:19:45,881 You constantly can improve your repurchase rate so you have 395 00:19:45,881 --> 00:19:48,191 a profitable uh, performance. 396 00:19:48,221 --> 00:19:48,491 Yeah. 397 00:19:48,761 --> 00:19:51,521 Is the way that you work out your commercial plan. 398 00:19:51,881 --> 00:19:52,151 Yeah. 399 00:19:52,361 --> 00:19:56,021 And this is highly subjective to what do you have in your portfolio? 400 00:19:56,081 --> 00:19:58,211 How are you constantly doing product launches? 401 00:19:58,391 --> 00:20:00,881 How are you thinking about the pricing of the product launches? 402 00:20:01,091 --> 00:20:02,681 How are you thinking about the merchandising. 403 00:20:03,251 --> 00:20:07,391 Bundling those products into one, two, later on. 404 00:20:07,391 --> 00:20:11,261 Figure out, uh, if you have the right aov, if you have the right purchase 405 00:20:11,771 --> 00:20:14,621 rate to get a healthy conversion rate. 406 00:20:15,206 --> 00:20:15,446 Yeah. 407 00:20:15,956 --> 00:20:19,916 So this is the third step, which is almost as equally impossible, uh, uh, 408 00:20:19,916 --> 00:20:22,166 important as the content strategy. 409 00:20:22,346 --> 00:20:22,556 Yeah. 410 00:20:22,556 --> 00:20:23,456 Mm-hmm. 411 00:20:23,457 --> 00:20:26,576 And then we have a couple of following steps, which the following, 412 00:20:26,636 --> 00:20:28,106 following is the financial structure. 413 00:20:28,496 --> 00:20:32,996 So we work, uh, hand in hand with the companies because many, many, many 414 00:20:32,996 --> 00:20:36,236 interpreters in their beginning don't really pay that much attention of how 415 00:20:36,241 --> 00:20:38,066 the, their p and l should look like. 416 00:20:38,126 --> 00:20:42,206 What are the areas they should optimize, how they can finance for growth? 417 00:20:42,266 --> 00:20:43,976 What are the things they don't know? 418 00:20:44,136 --> 00:20:48,006 Yeah, and we worked very tightly, uh, with the interpreters to figure 419 00:20:48,011 --> 00:20:50,196 out, okay, let's set up your p and l. 420 00:20:50,256 --> 00:20:51,876 Let's set up a cashflow forecast. 421 00:20:52,026 --> 00:20:54,276 How, uh, do we see the bills coming in? 422 00:20:54,281 --> 00:20:56,076 How can we optimize logistic costs? 423 00:20:56,076 --> 00:20:59,856 How can we optimize, uh, your costs, so and so forth that you can 424 00:20:59,856 --> 00:21:02,076 actually, uh, afford your own growth? 425 00:21:02,166 --> 00:21:02,316 Yeah. 426 00:21:02,346 --> 00:21:04,836 So the financial structure, uh, is something that comes 427 00:21:04,836 --> 00:21:06,336 afterwards and is very important. 428 00:21:06,966 --> 00:21:08,976 And then the data and tech stack. 429 00:21:09,126 --> 00:21:10,146 So thinking about. 430 00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:12,806 Everything that we do is very data driven. 431 00:21:13,166 --> 00:21:18,536 So how can we, uh, make dashboards, how can we connect different, uh, tools for 432 00:21:18,536 --> 00:21:24,806 attribution, for reporting, uh, and uh, for acquisition purposes that we know 433 00:21:24,806 --> 00:21:27,206 are the, the, the best ones to use? 434 00:21:27,506 --> 00:21:31,466 And that will give us all the information we need to have, uh, 435 00:21:31,466 --> 00:21:34,616 uh, To to avoid analysis paralysis. 436 00:21:34,616 --> 00:21:34,736 Yeah. 437 00:21:34,736 --> 00:21:38,336 So we can really take steps and understand how, let's do this. 438 00:21:38,336 --> 00:21:41,336 This is the right decision, and we can see this on a real time, 439 00:21:41,336 --> 00:21:45,056 on a day by day or week by week, and we don't have to wait 30 days. 440 00:21:45,056 --> 00:21:48,116 So the PNL gets closed, and then we finally see the results and we see 441 00:21:48,116 --> 00:21:49,196 what we did wrong, and we did bad. 442 00:21:49,196 --> 00:21:49,466 No, no. 443 00:21:49,466 --> 00:21:53,006 We can do this very fast if we have the right tools and we have the right setup. 444 00:21:54,086 --> 00:21:58,556 And this is, uh, an optional step and it's really depending on the company and the 445 00:21:58,556 --> 00:22:00,356 product, but it's internationalization. 446 00:22:00,776 --> 00:22:05,426 So figuring out if a company is able to internationalize, go to, to foreign 447 00:22:05,426 --> 00:22:10,406 markets, uh, expand at the profitable rate, and, uh, if this is the best step 448 00:22:10,406 --> 00:22:15,116 it should do, uh, which we, we usually try to do it, uh, after we reach certain 449 00:22:15,116 --> 00:22:16,586 kind of saturation in the home market. 450 00:22:16,586 --> 00:22:16,856 Mm-hmm. 451 00:22:17,981 --> 00:22:18,311 Wow, 452 00:22:19,991 --> 00:22:20,201 Leo. 453 00:22:20,201 --> 00:22:21,491 There's a lot there dude. 454 00:22:24,011 --> 00:22:25,061 There's a lot there. 455 00:22:25,151 --> 00:22:27,131 So let's dig into some of this if we can. 456 00:22:27,136 --> 00:22:31,001 So I just wanna summarize, uh, some of the things that you said. 457 00:22:31,001 --> 00:22:36,506 So from my notes, the first step, um, Once we've gone through the four 458 00:22:36,506 --> 00:22:41,396 metrics, uh, is to understand the overall growth strategy, um, and 459 00:22:41,396 --> 00:22:42,566 figure out what's going on there. 460 00:22:42,596 --> 00:22:47,006 We are then looking at this idea, uh, in level two of the content game. 461 00:22:47,396 --> 00:22:51,596 Um, you said something, uh, I, I can't remember the exact phrase, but if 462 00:22:51,596 --> 00:22:55,646 you are not good at creating content, you've not got a, a sort of a future 463 00:22:55,646 --> 00:22:56,846 business in a, in a lot of ways. 464 00:22:56,846 --> 00:22:57,926 This is now a content game. 465 00:22:57,926 --> 00:22:59,606 You've gotta get good at creating content. 466 00:23:00,326 --> 00:23:03,146 Uh, level three is the commercial plan. 467 00:23:04,046 --> 00:23:04,946 Which we need to think about. 468 00:23:04,946 --> 00:23:08,036 Number four is gonna be the financial structure, uh, number 469 00:23:08,036 --> 00:23:09,866 five, data and tech stack. 470 00:23:09,926 --> 00:23:12,866 And number six, possibly, which is an optional step. 471 00:23:12,956 --> 00:23:15,656 Uh, does your product translate internationally? 472 00:23:15,656 --> 00:23:17,246 Have I got all of those correct? 473 00:23:17,966 --> 00:23:18,726 Yeah, that's it. 474 00:23:18,906 --> 00:23:19,326 That's 475 00:23:19,326 --> 00:23:19,406 it. 476 00:23:20,246 --> 00:23:20,726 Fantastic. 477 00:23:20,726 --> 00:23:21,326 Go me. 478 00:23:21,656 --> 00:23:27,146 Um, so, so let's, uh, one of the things that you said at the start, 479 00:23:27,266 --> 00:23:30,476 um, when it came to the overall growth strategy is typically. 480 00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:36,311 You come across companies that are led by the founders, by the guys that are 481 00:23:36,311 --> 00:23:41,681 really passionate about the product or the customer in some way, um, but aren't 482 00:23:41,681 --> 00:23:47,441 really focused on growth as maybe you would be focused on growth because you're 483 00:23:47,441 --> 00:23:52,271 a little bit, um, Can I use the word disconnected here because you're not as 484 00:23:52,271 --> 00:23:54,461 emotionally involved, maybe, uh, in Sure. 485 00:23:55,061 --> 00:23:55,871 The companies. 486 00:23:56,171 --> 00:23:58,481 So let's dig into that a little bit because there's a lot of 487 00:23:58,486 --> 00:24:00,731 founders listening to the show going, oh, this is interesting. 488 00:24:00,821 --> 00:24:05,801 Um, what are some of the common mistakes you see business leaders 489 00:24:05,806 --> 00:24:08,801 doing when it comes to their own products in terms of growth strategy? 490 00:24:11,246 --> 00:24:16,256 Well being overly, uh, the first one and, and clear one is being overly picking and 491 00:24:16,256 --> 00:24:20,606 micromanaging the way that they want the products to come out and the way that they 492 00:24:20,606 --> 00:24:26,546 want, um, the advertisement, the content to come out to make sure it's perfect. 493 00:24:26,551 --> 00:24:28,706 And I mean, uh, good. 494 00:24:28,706 --> 00:24:29,816 Always beats perfect. 495 00:24:29,816 --> 00:24:34,616 So, uh, one of the things that they miss out is understanding that, uh, 496 00:24:34,646 --> 00:24:36,476 you are in the game of acquiring. 497 00:24:36,721 --> 00:24:43,411 Customers and the experience and the product is, um, of 498 00:24:43,411 --> 00:24:44,911 course an enabler for that. 499 00:24:45,361 --> 00:24:49,471 But, uh, in this, in this venture of trying to acquire customers, 500 00:24:49,471 --> 00:24:54,031 you need to figure out first what really triggers people into buying 501 00:24:54,331 --> 00:24:56,131 and how you can create a system. 502 00:24:56,516 --> 00:25:00,266 Of spitting the right messages at the right time to the right people. 503 00:25:00,746 --> 00:25:00,836 Mm-hmm. 504 00:25:01,076 --> 00:25:04,226 If you're not focused on that, if you're focused on it needs to be perfect, 505 00:25:04,586 --> 00:25:08,576 then you miss out on the biggest, uh, on the biggest, uh, Point, which 506 00:25:08,576 --> 00:25:10,856 is testing approaches constantly. 507 00:25:11,456 --> 00:25:11,576 Mm-hmm. 508 00:25:11,966 --> 00:25:16,286 And yeah, this is the biggest mistake, uh, being overly careful of how you say 509 00:25:16,286 --> 00:25:20,936 it when you say it and et cetera, and not really thinking, Hey, this, the, the 510 00:25:20,936 --> 00:25:25,496 reason I'm doing this and doing it fast is so I can figure out what is the best way 511 00:25:25,501 --> 00:25:27,446 that I can do this consistently over time. 512 00:25:28,796 --> 00:25:31,766 So did you get a lot of kickback then from founders about this? 513 00:25:31,766 --> 00:25:34,976 Or do they, once you explain it, are they, are they into it? 514 00:25:34,976 --> 00:25:39,026 I'm kind of curious as to, to understand in that mindset and that struggle maybe 515 00:25:39,026 --> 00:25:40,436 that they go through at this phase. 516 00:25:40,436 --> 00:25:40,496 Um, 517 00:25:42,296 --> 00:25:42,746 Yeah. 518 00:25:42,806 --> 00:25:48,476 Um, one thing that we, that we find it pretty, um, fascinating is when 519 00:25:48,476 --> 00:25:49,886 they get out of their own head. 520 00:25:50,336 --> 00:25:54,146 So they're so into the product and, and to the brand and experience that they 521 00:25:54,146 --> 00:25:59,216 start only talking to themselves and they start and they stop looking at, uh, 522 00:25:59,216 --> 00:26:04,256 objectively things that they should be doing to trying to get to a, to a new 523 00:26:04,256 --> 00:26:06,296 headspace or trying to reach new people. 524 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:07,706 Yeah, so. 525 00:26:08,531 --> 00:26:11,891 I've done this exercise many times now, and it's a, it's a, it's a nice 526 00:26:11,891 --> 00:26:13,691 hack to, to share with the community. 527 00:26:14,171 --> 00:26:18,161 Uh, it's using, uh, a couple of AI tools to quickly have a grasp 528 00:26:18,161 --> 00:26:19,511 of what is the customer feedback. 529 00:26:19,991 --> 00:26:20,081 Mm-hmm. 530 00:26:20,326 --> 00:26:23,801 So if you have, uh, uh, a lot of feedback already, you can't, uh, 531 00:26:24,521 --> 00:26:28,121 download, uh, all your reviews mm-hmm. 532 00:26:28,361 --> 00:26:30,761 Um, and save them in a PDF document. 533 00:26:30,776 --> 00:26:33,436 And use chatpdf.com. 534 00:26:33,836 --> 00:26:34,226 Mm-hmm. 535 00:26:34,232 --> 00:26:38,426 Uh, and just start having a conversation with ChatPDF to say, okay, what 536 00:26:38,426 --> 00:26:40,256 are the highlights of the reviews? 537 00:26:40,286 --> 00:26:41,666 What are the pain points? 538 00:26:41,846 --> 00:26:43,466 What are the different personas here? 539 00:26:43,616 --> 00:26:45,326 Uh, uh, attributed the reviews. 540 00:26:45,596 --> 00:26:48,056 How can I turn this into ad hooks? 541 00:26:48,061 --> 00:26:50,306 How can I turn this into video scripts? 542 00:26:50,576 --> 00:26:53,726 What are the things people miss out, uh, from the reviews? 543 00:26:53,726 --> 00:26:56,156 What do they, uh, cherish the most? 544 00:26:56,216 --> 00:26:58,556 How do they view us compared to competition? 545 00:26:58,916 --> 00:27:02,561 So, Me being a very unbiased person at the, uh, coming into 546 00:27:02,561 --> 00:27:04,241 this uh, uh, uh, situation. 547 00:27:04,631 --> 00:27:07,901 Uh, I just grabbed this export of all the reviews and start having a 548 00:27:07,901 --> 00:27:10,511 conversation with multiple clients because I have all the reviews and 549 00:27:10,511 --> 00:27:14,351 start, Hey, did you see that actually people are talking about your brand 550 00:27:14,891 --> 00:27:16,121 compared to competitors this way? 551 00:27:16,121 --> 00:27:20,351 Did you see that the thing that they value the most is number three in your list 552 00:27:20,351 --> 00:27:24,641 of, uh, usps, when you always talk about one and two, but it's actually the number 553 00:27:24,671 --> 00:27:26,801 three that gets them to tick the most. 554 00:27:27,161 --> 00:27:28,091 Did you see that? 555 00:27:28,091 --> 00:27:30,521 So this is the way that, oh, wow. 556 00:27:30,551 --> 00:27:30,941 Okay. 557 00:27:30,941 --> 00:27:33,551 Yeah, I never really thought about it and I'm really selling 558 00:27:33,551 --> 00:27:34,661 number one, two, and three. 559 00:27:35,021 --> 00:27:40,211 So, uh, this is one of the, the, the exercises that get customers, 560 00:27:40,301 --> 00:27:43,781 uh, that get, uh, founders mostly, um, they get their head 561 00:27:43,781 --> 00:27:45,281 spinning when they say, oh, shit. 562 00:27:45,641 --> 00:27:49,181 So much feedback here that I'm not contemplating or taking into, 563 00:27:49,511 --> 00:27:52,271 into account when, when thinking about my, my decision making. 564 00:27:52,271 --> 00:27:53,591 So, That's 565 00:27:53,591 --> 00:27:54,251 really powerful. 566 00:27:54,411 --> 00:27:57,881 chatpdf.com was the site that you mentioned, right? 567 00:27:58,481 --> 00:28:01,331 Um, yeah, but that's, I mean, we've done that in the past actually, where we've 568 00:28:01,336 --> 00:28:05,471 used ChatGPT to, um, look at reviews and the data you get out of stuff. 569 00:28:05,471 --> 00:28:07,001 Like, that's so insightful. 570 00:28:07,541 --> 00:28:08,081 Uh, yeah. 571 00:28:08,081 --> 00:28:10,211 And stuff that you would never have thought about really. 572 00:28:10,721 --> 00:28:12,161 Um, yeah. 573 00:28:12,191 --> 00:28:12,881 No, that's interesting. 574 00:28:12,911 --> 00:28:17,981 Okay, so the content game, let's focus a little bit on the content game. 575 00:28:19,121 --> 00:28:23,051 Um, I think. 576 00:28:23,891 --> 00:28:27,881 I think first and foremost, Leo, if, if I'm a founder in an e-commerce, which 577 00:28:27,881 --> 00:28:32,051 technically I am, I, you know, if I'm a founder in an e-commerce business, 578 00:28:32,171 --> 00:28:36,341 um, the content game is probably one of those things that scares me because 579 00:28:36,551 --> 00:28:40,631 if I, I'm just gonna pick a random product on my desk here I have, um, 580 00:28:41,401 --> 00:28:42,351 I can't remember what they call 'em. 581 00:28:42,356 --> 00:28:43,141 Funky pops. 582 00:28:43,351 --> 00:28:45,841 Uh, I've, I've got my little Apollo Creed, right? 583 00:28:45,841 --> 00:28:47,581 There's, yeah, watching on the video there he is. 584 00:28:47,581 --> 00:28:49,081 Little Apollo Creed, funky pops. 585 00:28:49,801 --> 00:28:51,541 I'm from a certain era, what can I say? 586 00:28:51,991 --> 00:28:56,191 Um, so I've got Apollo Creed there and I manufacture, you know, Apollo Creed 587 00:28:56,196 --> 00:28:59,341 and I'm passionate about what it, the story and, and all that sort of stuff. 588 00:29:00,591 --> 00:29:02,191 I can do that. 589 00:29:03,251 --> 00:29:07,451 But to ask me to do content is radically stepping outside of my comfort zone. 590 00:29:07,601 --> 00:29:08,831 At least in my head It is. 591 00:29:08,831 --> 00:29:10,901 I dunno if you've found this to be true with founders. 592 00:29:12,161 --> 00:29:12,731 Yeah, for sure. 593 00:29:13,181 --> 00:29:13,571 For sure. 594 00:29:14,241 --> 00:29:14,941 You, it's you. 595 00:29:14,981 --> 00:29:22,256 You need to having that, that's why I mean, I was trying to tell you, it's all 596 00:29:22,256 --> 00:29:26,276 about a content game, but not everyone can play the content game because not 597 00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:27,776 everyone can have that content mind. 598 00:29:27,776 --> 00:29:30,986 It's, it's something you have to really experiment a lot and try a 599 00:29:30,986 --> 00:29:32,816 lot and have different angles to it. 600 00:29:33,206 --> 00:29:37,376 There's the scientific angle to it, which is looking at KPIs and try to adjust KPIs. 601 00:29:37,586 --> 00:29:40,286 There's the creative angle to it, which is, okay, how are we going 602 00:29:40,286 --> 00:29:41,636 to create different concepts? 603 00:29:42,236 --> 00:29:42,356 Yeah. 604 00:29:42,356 --> 00:29:42,446 Mm-hmm. 605 00:29:43,106 --> 00:29:47,396 And there is the, the, the angle that puts everything in together and. 606 00:29:47,966 --> 00:29:50,396 We say it's the angle that creates desire. 607 00:29:51,236 --> 00:29:56,546 It's the, the, the creative strategist or the, the ad buyer, which has that 608 00:29:56,636 --> 00:30:02,816 view of the data and the qualitative, uh, uh, uh, perception of the content 609 00:30:02,816 --> 00:30:08,306 that says, look, if we sell it with this angle, with this hook, with this 610 00:30:08,306 --> 00:30:13,136 amount of, of footage, we should be able to convert much more than just that. 611 00:30:13,466 --> 00:30:15,926 So, uh, it's the creation of desire. 612 00:30:16,301 --> 00:30:19,571 Because we are in a business there, there's also two 613 00:30:19,571 --> 00:30:21,251 businesses that we separate. 614 00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:26,291 There's the demand generation and there's the demand capture business. 615 00:30:26,291 --> 00:30:27,941 Demand captures the Google business. 616 00:30:27,971 --> 00:30:32,681 So people already have a certain type of, of, uh, of, uh, they're already 617 00:30:32,686 --> 00:30:35,171 looking for something and they're just gonna find the ones who has the 618 00:30:35,171 --> 00:30:36,641 best price at the best review level. 619 00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:36,731 Sure. 620 00:30:37,061 --> 00:30:38,861 And that's a, a demand capture game. 621 00:30:38,861 --> 00:30:41,441 And the demand generation is the Facebook TikTok word. 622 00:30:41,501 --> 00:30:41,741 Yeah. 623 00:30:42,071 --> 00:30:44,381 Where you can spit out an idea to someone. 624 00:30:44,701 --> 00:30:50,191 That they were not expecting, and they are going to be instantly, um, activated 625 00:30:50,191 --> 00:30:52,381 to go to the website and maybe buy it. 626 00:30:52,381 --> 00:30:52,711 Yeah. 627 00:30:52,711 --> 00:30:53,311 Immediately. 628 00:30:53,311 --> 00:30:54,961 Or, or they're really gonna have that desire. 629 00:30:54,961 --> 00:30:56,041 Whoa, this is really interesting. 630 00:30:56,431 --> 00:30:58,891 I'm going to keep this in my, in my, I'm gonna save it. 631 00:30:58,891 --> 00:31:01,351 I'm going to keep it in my mind, so maybe I can purchase it later on. 632 00:31:01,441 --> 00:31:01,651 Yeah. 633 00:31:02,281 --> 00:31:04,231 And creating that desire. 634 00:31:04,871 --> 00:31:08,891 It's, it's the art and science of trying to figure out how to create 635 00:31:08,896 --> 00:31:12,941 content with the right concept, with the right words, with the right amount 636 00:31:12,941 --> 00:31:15,851 of length, and for different platforms. 637 00:31:15,856 --> 00:31:16,241 Mm-hmm. 638 00:31:16,326 --> 00:31:20,441 The way you create content for TikTok is very different than the way people used 639 00:31:20,446 --> 00:31:22,271 to create content for Facebook early on. 640 00:31:22,271 --> 00:31:22,331 Yeah. 641 00:31:22,841 --> 00:31:26,801 It's very short, snappy, entertaining type of content that, okay, wow. 642 00:31:26,831 --> 00:31:28,421 I want to go and click. 643 00:31:28,451 --> 00:31:28,751 Yeah. 644 00:31:29,141 --> 00:31:33,386 Um, and Facebook, um, Uh, five, six years ago, it was a very 645 00:31:33,386 --> 00:31:34,586 different way to create content. 646 00:31:34,586 --> 00:31:38,996 You really see like an ad type of, of, uh, of content popping up in your feed. 647 00:31:38,996 --> 00:31:40,106 Like, buy this now. 648 00:31:40,106 --> 00:31:44,651 But, so it's, it's very different type of, uh, Of, uh, content. 649 00:31:44,651 --> 00:31:50,411 So you have to have a mind, uh, to develop and test out different 650 00:31:50,411 --> 00:31:55,781 concepts that are going to have a focus on converting people. 651 00:31:55,871 --> 00:32:01,631 Yeah, so this is a skill, uh, and this is a set of of ingredients 652 00:32:01,631 --> 00:32:03,611 you need to actually have. 653 00:32:03,966 --> 00:32:06,906 Internalized, uh, uh, to be able to succeed. 654 00:32:07,416 --> 00:32:11,616 So I, I've met founders which are really focused on the brand level and 655 00:32:11,616 --> 00:32:15,786 want to only make really nice pieces of stories, but don't really think 656 00:32:15,786 --> 00:32:19,596 about how the story is connecting to a product or connecting to a purchase. 657 00:32:20,016 --> 00:32:23,376 Yeah, and I have the other way, which is just about sales, sales sale, 658 00:32:23,376 --> 00:32:24,516 promotion, promotion, promotion. 659 00:32:24,516 --> 00:32:26,316 They really don't build up something that. 660 00:32:26,801 --> 00:32:28,361 Why are people buying this? 661 00:32:28,361 --> 00:32:29,801 What problem are they solving? 662 00:32:30,011 --> 00:32:35,021 How can they propose in a short way, uh, uh, uh, why people would need that? 663 00:32:35,111 --> 00:32:36,971 So it is a tough game to play. 664 00:32:36,971 --> 00:32:37,871 It is not easy. 665 00:32:37,991 --> 00:32:41,066 And, um, Not everyone can have it, that's for sure. 666 00:32:41,486 --> 00:32:45,416 So this is one of the reasons why we also, uh, are successful, uh, 667 00:32:45,476 --> 00:32:48,656 scaling these businesses because we had to experiment a lot with that. 668 00:32:48,656 --> 00:32:53,366 We constantly get exposed to new concepts and we are constantly trying to learn. 669 00:32:53,366 --> 00:32:57,146 Whenever there's a new platform, like TikTok, we got, uh, on the band, on 670 00:32:57,151 --> 00:33:01,886 the bandwagon, really, uh, um, soon to try to learn how to get good at it. 671 00:33:01,886 --> 00:33:03,836 And, uh, yeah, it, it takes time. 672 00:33:03,841 --> 00:33:04,336 It's not easy. 673 00:33:05,021 --> 00:33:05,351 No. 674 00:33:05,681 --> 00:33:05,861 No. 675 00:33:05,861 --> 00:33:09,431 Is it, but it's a skill and like most, like you, I mean this is the word 676 00:33:09,431 --> 00:33:10,481 you used, it's a skill, isn't it? 677 00:33:11,141 --> 00:33:16,241 Um, I'm a, I guess the question is, can most people learn that skill? 678 00:33:16,541 --> 00:33:20,021 Um, or is it something that I need to go and get external help with? 679 00:33:22,661 --> 00:33:31,151 Look, I think, um, it is a crucial skill to have internal, let me say it like that. 680 00:33:31,151 --> 00:33:32,411 I don't know if you can get it. 681 00:33:32,411 --> 00:33:34,391 I dunno if you can learn it, but it's. 682 00:33:34,856 --> 00:33:38,036 It's, uh, strategic to have it internalized. 683 00:33:38,126 --> 00:33:38,366 Yeah. 684 00:33:38,666 --> 00:33:44,456 So if you are not able to experiment with content internally, you're going 685 00:33:44,456 --> 00:33:49,586 to be always, uh, dependent on a third party to do it for you, and you're going 686 00:33:49,586 --> 00:33:53,726 to leave the impact, or you're going to leave your, your company in the hands of. 687 00:33:54,161 --> 00:33:54,911 Someone else. 688 00:33:55,001 --> 00:33:55,091 Mm-hmm. 689 00:33:55,361 --> 00:33:58,451 For them to come up with the concept, for them to come up with the angles, for 690 00:33:58,451 --> 00:34:03,221 them to come up with, with the stories and internally, uh, you should know 691 00:34:03,221 --> 00:34:05,621 the best your customer, the experience. 692 00:34:05,621 --> 00:34:06,401 What do they value? 693 00:34:07,211 --> 00:34:10,151 You're constantly having a feedback look from customers if they're 694 00:34:10,151 --> 00:34:12,521 liking the product, if they're not liking what they're not liking, 695 00:34:13,031 --> 00:34:16,421 and you're fit in this in a loop to create constantly new content. 696 00:34:16,571 --> 00:34:16,781 Yeah. 697 00:34:17,111 --> 00:34:21,251 So it is very important to have it, uh, internal, this kind of power. 698 00:34:21,281 --> 00:34:21,611 Yeah. 699 00:34:21,641 --> 00:34:24,731 If, if people can have it and then later on build out the, the 700 00:34:24,731 --> 00:34:26,411 ads buying machine behind it. 701 00:34:26,561 --> 00:34:26,711 Yeah. 702 00:34:27,041 --> 00:34:31,631 So if it's, we learned it because we had to mm-hmm. 703 00:34:31,631 --> 00:34:33,011 We had to go to get good at it. 704 00:34:33,611 --> 00:34:37,931 Um, But we know it's not the easy thing to learn, that's for sure. 705 00:34:38,981 --> 00:34:43,511 So where do, um, if people are listening, go, well, this is, this 706 00:34:43,511 --> 00:34:44,711 is something I need to get into. 707 00:34:44,711 --> 00:34:47,411 I need to understand this a little bit more for most people, 708 00:34:47,411 --> 00:34:48,761 where's a good place to start? 709 00:34:51,371 --> 00:34:52,991 Ooh, that's a tricky one. 710 00:34:53,471 --> 00:35:00,896 So, Nowadays, um, you know, one of the easiest exercises that, 711 00:35:01,256 --> 00:35:06,206 uh, that we do is just trying to understand TikTok, for instance. 712 00:35:06,566 --> 00:35:06,656 Mm-hmm. 713 00:35:06,896 --> 00:35:11,396 If people start to understand which content is going viral on TikTok, which 714 00:35:11,396 --> 00:35:14,486 are the different angles, which are the different concepts, how people are 715 00:35:14,486 --> 00:35:18,956 doing it, uh, on an organic level, then you start to work your mind off to say, 716 00:35:18,986 --> 00:35:20,696 okay, how can I apply this to my brand? 717 00:35:20,696 --> 00:35:22,976 Yeah, how can I apply this to my product? 718 00:35:23,306 --> 00:35:28,166 So this, the platform is one of the platforms that, uh, still allows you to 719 00:35:28,166 --> 00:35:34,256 have organic virality, uh, different than, than than Instagram, uh, for instance. 720 00:35:34,526 --> 00:35:39,026 And this is a place where you can see unbiased way of, uh, of content 721 00:35:39,031 --> 00:35:41,546 creation on a, on a crazy scale. 722 00:35:41,606 --> 00:35:44,216 So you have a lot of organic profiles creating original 723 00:35:44,216 --> 00:35:46,856 content and getting, uh, very. 724 00:35:47,206 --> 00:35:49,996 Big virality and you just have to analyze that. 725 00:35:49,996 --> 00:35:52,966 You have to study, okay, was it because of the music? 726 00:35:52,966 --> 00:35:54,256 Was it because of the filters? 727 00:35:54,256 --> 00:35:55,426 Was it because of the story? 728 00:35:55,426 --> 00:35:56,566 Was it because of the product? 729 00:35:56,836 --> 00:36:00,376 And then you can start reflecting, okay, if this was a trend, if this got viral, 730 00:36:00,376 --> 00:36:02,176 how can I use this with my product? 731 00:36:02,356 --> 00:36:03,316 Yeah, so. 732 00:36:04,421 --> 00:36:08,891 I'm sure that, uh, you just showed me your, your, uh, uh, your product, 733 00:36:08,891 --> 00:36:13,091 and it's, for me, it looks amazing for, for demand generation, you 734 00:36:13,091 --> 00:36:17,441 just have to find similar, uh, um, similar companies that are doing 735 00:36:17,441 --> 00:36:18,941 the same or with similar products. 736 00:36:19,001 --> 00:36:19,181 Okay. 737 00:36:19,181 --> 00:36:21,581 How are they telling a story about this? 738 00:36:21,641 --> 00:36:22,091 Yeah, yeah. 739 00:36:22,391 --> 00:36:25,091 Uh, how are they pushing this product in a way that the 740 00:36:25,091 --> 00:36:26,571 content is highly entertaining? 741 00:36:27,161 --> 00:36:29,501 But at the same time, ha is actionable. 742 00:36:29,711 --> 00:36:30,701 Go and get it now. 743 00:36:30,941 --> 00:36:31,271 Right. 744 00:36:31,871 --> 00:36:36,641 Um, so I think analyzing TikTok and the trends on TikTok is the easiest 745 00:36:36,646 --> 00:36:39,221 way to, to start to understand how to create content yourself. 746 00:36:40,751 --> 00:36:43,151 I like that it has to be entertaining and actionable. 747 00:36:43,451 --> 00:36:45,221 Um, brilliant. 748 00:36:45,701 --> 00:36:51,776 So, um, Leah, I'm aware, um, Uh, of time and we could spend all the day talking 749 00:36:51,776 --> 00:36:54,146 about TikTok and uh, content creation. 750 00:36:54,476 --> 00:36:58,016 But I want to switch tracks very slightly if I can. 751 00:36:58,856 --> 00:37:02,006 Yeah, because there's the other side to what you said at the start, which is you 752 00:37:02,006 --> 00:37:06,926 can grow from a million to, so from six figures to eight figures within 12 months. 753 00:37:08,216 --> 00:37:11,756 I listen to that and I kind of go as an e as an entrepreneur, I go, yes, I, I 754 00:37:11,756 --> 00:37:17,696 understand how actually, if you've got the right content machine, I can scale, right? 755 00:37:17,696 --> 00:37:20,276 Because that makes, that makes a lot of sense. 756 00:37:20,276 --> 00:37:23,456 It's just, I, I'm in effect, I'm buying customers and if I can find enough 757 00:37:23,456 --> 00:37:26,816 customers at the right price, price, I can grow that business and I can bootstrap it 758 00:37:26,816 --> 00:37:28,316 and I can keep investing back into that. 759 00:37:29,516 --> 00:37:30,866 So in one sense, that. 760 00:37:31,466 --> 00:37:32,876 Seems sensible. 761 00:37:32,936 --> 00:37:36,116 It seems a little bit scary, um, but it, it seems sensible. 762 00:37:36,116 --> 00:37:40,586 The thing which, um, the first sort of questions that go through my head 763 00:37:40,591 --> 00:37:47,036 are, how in the world am I gonna manage that kind of rapid growth in terms 764 00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:52,601 of, um, Going back to my Apollo creed, how do I get more Apollos on my shelf? 765 00:37:52,601 --> 00:37:54,221 How do I have, I gotta go get a bigger way? 766 00:37:54,401 --> 00:37:58,361 There's all sorts of questions, which then from a practical operations point 767 00:37:58,361 --> 00:38:01,121 of view come into my head and I wonder if you could just speak to some of those. 768 00:38:02,801 --> 00:38:03,161 Yeah. 769 00:38:03,371 --> 00:38:08,831 So definitely it scares people, uh, if you goes to such a rapid growth. 770 00:38:08,861 --> 00:38:09,131 Yeah. 771 00:38:09,671 --> 00:38:13,871 Uh, but I, I want to remind, this is a talk I have with, with several of the, 772 00:38:13,871 --> 00:38:15,281 the companies who accelerate our help. 773 00:38:15,766 --> 00:38:18,716 I, entrepreneurs have to figure out ways to make things work, right? 774 00:38:18,746 --> 00:38:19,246 If mm-hmm. 775 00:38:19,346 --> 00:38:24,746 If you cannot, if your lead time now is, uh, 90 days, okay, figure 776 00:38:24,746 --> 00:38:25,586 out, let's make it shorter. 777 00:38:25,616 --> 00:38:27,836 Let's make 60 days, let's make the 45 days. 778 00:38:27,836 --> 00:38:32,366 But when you are in this comfort zone, That your growth is stalled 779 00:38:32,366 --> 00:38:35,126 and you continuously make the same amount of revenues, or you only 780 00:38:35,126 --> 00:38:37,316 go five to 10% year over year. 781 00:38:37,556 --> 00:38:41,036 You don't really get to the stage where you have to significantly prove 782 00:38:41,096 --> 00:38:42,416 everything else in your company. 783 00:38:42,716 --> 00:38:47,276 So you might be paying way too much for customer support, or you might have 784 00:38:47,336 --> 00:38:52,766 really crazy lead times, or you might be not optimized on the way that you are. 785 00:38:53,186 --> 00:38:56,126 Um, Thinking about your cash flow. 786 00:38:56,156 --> 00:38:56,426 Yeah. 787 00:38:56,426 --> 00:38:58,976 Or, uh, your payment, uh, terms. 788 00:38:59,306 --> 00:39:04,196 And what this does is really pushes you to, Hey, are we 789 00:39:04,196 --> 00:39:06,896 going to say no to this growth? 790 00:39:06,901 --> 00:39:09,536 Which we don't know if it's gonna come back, uh, later on because 791 00:39:09,541 --> 00:39:13,706 there might be another event like an iOS or, uh, whatever it might be. 792 00:39:13,796 --> 00:39:14,606 Uh, yeah. 793 00:39:15,926 --> 00:39:19,196 Or are we going to figure out the problems that we think it can be figured out? 794 00:39:19,196 --> 00:39:25,706 So, um, definitely the things that, uh, start to, to, to come to point 795 00:39:25,706 --> 00:39:27,326 is okay, production and lead times. 796 00:39:27,656 --> 00:39:27,926 Yeah. 797 00:39:28,436 --> 00:39:31,646 Making sure you can actually fulfill a larger amount of 798 00:39:31,646 --> 00:39:32,876 items with the same speed. 799 00:39:33,596 --> 00:39:33,866 Yeah. 800 00:39:34,256 --> 00:39:37,706 Making sure your customer support doesn't blow up and you have the right 801 00:39:37,706 --> 00:39:41,816 infrastructure to continuously reply to customers at a with a good time. 802 00:39:41,846 --> 00:39:49,826 And, um, With the right, um, how to say, um, with still the same tone 803 00:39:49,826 --> 00:39:54,176 of voice and not just, uh, have an overload of, of, of tickets to reply to. 804 00:39:54,656 --> 00:39:55,046 And I think. 805 00:39:55,541 --> 00:39:59,021 And the last of course, having the fi the, the cash to finance it. 806 00:39:59,231 --> 00:39:59,501 Yeah. 807 00:39:59,506 --> 00:39:59,801 Mm-hmm. 808 00:39:59,971 --> 00:40:04,511 Being really clear on what you can spend, how you can spend, and if you cannot 809 00:40:04,511 --> 00:40:08,381 spend it right now, how you can prepare yourself to, to continuously spend. 810 00:40:08,501 --> 00:40:08,741 Yeah. 811 00:40:09,071 --> 00:40:13,511 So I think the financing side, the supply chain and the customer support 812 00:40:13,511 --> 00:40:19,061 are the three big, uh, areas where, uh, it would be really painful to grow. 813 00:40:19,421 --> 00:40:19,721 Yeah. 814 00:40:20,351 --> 00:40:24,041 Um, This is just how are you going to figure this out? 815 00:40:24,101 --> 00:40:27,401 And we talk with the, with the founders on, on the, the experience 816 00:40:27,401 --> 00:40:31,541 we had in the past for negotiating better payment, payment terms, being 817 00:40:31,541 --> 00:40:37,481 able to do short term financing, uh, being able to, um, think about how to 818 00:40:37,481 --> 00:40:39,671 optimize our customer support flow. 819 00:40:39,941 --> 00:40:46,511 So we have already a lot of, uh, of, uh, of, um, yeah, best practices we acquired 820 00:40:46,511 --> 00:40:50,681 in the past, uh, of how to quickly scale something that is very beginner level. 821 00:40:50,681 --> 00:40:54,506 Uh, it's a more advanced level, but these are the three big, uh, I think tickets. 822 00:40:55,856 --> 00:40:57,086 Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? 823 00:40:57,086 --> 00:41:01,136 And I, I'm sitting here listening to you talk thinking, oh, this actually would 824 00:41:01,141 --> 00:41:06,266 be, um, for those listening who run their own e-commerce business, who are founders, 825 00:41:06,356 --> 00:41:13,106 um, this for me would be a really interesting thought exercise in the sense 826 00:41:13,106 --> 00:41:17,126 that let's say tomorrow you had 10 times more sales than you normally do, and that 827 00:41:17,126 --> 00:41:19,136 growth was gonna carry on for 12 months. 828 00:41:20,441 --> 00:41:22,931 How would you, how would you cope with that? 829 00:41:23,261 --> 00:41:27,611 Um, just thinking that through, I think would be a really interesting idea, 830 00:41:27,611 --> 00:41:32,861 just because, like you say, it's easy to get comfortable in the rules, which 831 00:41:33,101 --> 00:41:34,781 you currently play the game, right? 832 00:41:34,781 --> 00:41:36,911 So I'm currently playing this e-commerce game. 833 00:41:37,271 --> 00:41:39,131 These are the rules, these are the boundaries. 834 00:41:39,221 --> 00:41:40,961 Um, my production time is X. 835 00:41:40,961 --> 00:41:46,231 My, uh, my custo customer support is why my finance is Z. 836 00:41:47,216 --> 00:41:49,796 But ones, if we start to turn that on, on our head, I think is 837 00:41:49,826 --> 00:41:54,086 just, it would just be a really interesting thought exercise to do. 838 00:41:54,236 --> 00:41:55,376 Um, I I 839 00:41:55,376 --> 00:41:59,846 can give you one, uh, very interesting case that we constantly, uh, have it and 840 00:41:59,851 --> 00:42:01,436 it's one of the best hacks for growth. 841 00:42:01,706 --> 00:42:02,006 Yeah. 842 00:42:02,456 --> 00:42:02,696 Okay. 843 00:42:03,446 --> 00:42:05,726 One of the best hacks for growth is product launches. 844 00:42:06,551 --> 00:42:11,681 Having a good product launch calendar, constantly releasing new products. 845 00:42:11,741 --> 00:42:15,491 If it's on, on a cadence of two weeks, three weeks, four month, doesn't matter. 846 00:42:15,881 --> 00:42:19,301 You need to have a product launch calendar that you constantly release new products. 847 00:42:20,201 --> 00:42:24,551 What usually the, the entrepreneurs would come back and say is no, but our 848 00:42:24,551 --> 00:42:26,861 lead time is this, and our MOQ is that. 849 00:42:27,431 --> 00:42:27,851 Okay. 850 00:42:28,211 --> 00:42:29,051 Have you. 851 00:42:29,636 --> 00:42:34,526 Talked with your supplier to say, I don't care about your MOQ, just charge 852 00:42:34,526 --> 00:42:38,636 me higher high unit prices, but I just need to release a new product every two 853 00:42:38,636 --> 00:42:43,316 weeks, three weeks, and you can give me, instead of 500 units, 100 units 854 00:42:43,406 --> 00:42:45,386 charge me more for the unit price. 855 00:42:45,416 --> 00:42:45,506 Mm-hmm. 856 00:42:45,751 --> 00:42:49,961 Because what you get out of this exercise, It's constantly having 857 00:42:49,961 --> 00:42:54,731 a bump of sales increasing your purchase rate because the ones that 858 00:42:54,731 --> 00:42:58,241 are most interested about, uh, product launches are also your, your, mm-hmm. 859 00:42:58,511 --> 00:43:04,121 Usual customers, and you start to figure out what are the most important products 860 00:43:04,121 --> 00:43:10,721 to constantly release this insight is way more important than keeping your 861 00:43:10,721 --> 00:43:14,441 MOQ and keeping your lead times stable. 862 00:43:15,071 --> 00:43:15,431 Yeah. 863 00:43:16,286 --> 00:43:22,226 You know, like you show me again your product, um, you can have 1000 different 864 00:43:22,226 --> 00:43:25,466 products you can release and you might be overloaded with choices of what's 865 00:43:25,466 --> 00:43:27,656 the next character I should release. 866 00:43:28,196 --> 00:43:28,496 Yeah. 867 00:43:28,736 --> 00:43:32,186 And you need to plan where ahead because you cannot make a bad 868 00:43:32,186 --> 00:43:33,356 investment and so on and so forth. 869 00:43:33,911 --> 00:43:39,851 But if you do very limited shots for about six months, you figure 870 00:43:39,851 --> 00:43:43,751 out which ones have the really high potential of sales, and you turn this 871 00:43:43,751 --> 00:43:47,411 one into a regular product in your portfolio after you have gone through 872 00:43:47,411 --> 00:43:48,731 a round of tests and you can, okay. 873 00:43:49,181 --> 00:43:49,751 I don't care. 874 00:43:49,751 --> 00:43:52,451 Now, it's not the MOQ that I'm going to, I'm going to order, I'm going to 875 00:43:52,451 --> 00:43:57,101 order 10 times the MOQ because this was so successful and I have tested 876 00:43:57,131 --> 00:44:01,781 with, uh, even with a breakeven uh, uh, financing here of this product, that 877 00:44:01,781 --> 00:44:03,401 this is going to be crazy successful. 878 00:44:03,851 --> 00:44:07,481 So in the end, what will be analysis paralysis? 879 00:44:07,491 --> 00:44:11,981 Uh, uh, uh, problem now is enabler for you to continuously grow your portfolio. 880 00:44:13,451 --> 00:44:14,231 That's really powerful. 881 00:44:14,441 --> 00:44:16,121 I've seen companies do that super well. 882 00:44:16,121 --> 00:44:19,001 Actually, there's, I'm a bit of, um, uh, you won't know this Leo, 883 00:44:19,031 --> 00:44:20,381 but I'm a bit of a woodworker. 884 00:44:20,386 --> 00:44:24,551 I like to do joinery in my downtime, and I've seen, there's one particular 885 00:44:24,551 --> 00:44:25,931 tool company that I'm thinking of. 886 00:44:25,931 --> 00:44:29,621 They're constant releasing new products, but in limited quantities. 887 00:44:29,996 --> 00:44:33,296 And then if they say sell, sell, well that product then becomes 888 00:44:33,296 --> 00:44:34,766 part of their main product catalog. 889 00:44:35,216 --> 00:44:38,936 But there's always, there's lit, there's new stuff coming out literally every week. 890 00:44:39,296 --> 00:44:41,696 Um, it's like they've just got a department which just makes 891 00:44:41,696 --> 00:44:43,706 stuff, uh, and see how it sells. 892 00:44:43,711 --> 00:44:46,736 Then they come out with version two and that's them, you know, that then becomes 893 00:44:46,741 --> 00:44:48,056 part of their sort of main catalog. 894 00:44:48,656 --> 00:44:51,776 Otherwise, if it doesn't go well, it just kind of goes, well, that's, you 895 00:44:51,781 --> 00:44:54,626 know, the last chance to buy kind of thing before it's gone forever. 896 00:44:55,196 --> 00:44:57,776 Um, and they might iterate on it or they might change it 897 00:44:57,776 --> 00:44:58,886 at some point in the future. 898 00:44:58,886 --> 00:45:05,291 So, But there seems to be this constant, uh, evolving of, of products, which is I. 899 00:45:06,686 --> 00:45:09,596 Which I think for, for most people is as probably as scary as trying to 900 00:45:09,596 --> 00:45:11,276 create a content machine, isn't it? 901 00:45:11,336 --> 00:45:14,216 In a, in a lot of ways you're, you're now creating a product machine, 902 00:45:14,756 --> 00:45:16,256 um, where the challenge is, right? 903 00:45:16,376 --> 00:45:20,606 Um, once every two weeks, once every month, we are gonna release something 904 00:45:20,606 --> 00:45:24,896 new and I want to see, and we're gonna release it in a, a limited batch, 905 00:45:25,046 --> 00:45:26,246 and we're just gonna see how it goes. 906 00:45:26,246 --> 00:45:29,576 And if it, if it goes well, we'll put it in the main product catalog. 907 00:45:30,026 --> 00:45:34,271 Um, Yeah, I think it's a really interesting strategy, a really, 908 00:45:34,271 --> 00:45:35,651 really interesting strategy. 909 00:45:35,801 --> 00:45:37,781 Um, what are the, what are the hacks? 910 00:45:37,781 --> 00:45:39,581 Do you have, Leo, I'm kind of curious. 911 00:45:39,581 --> 00:45:40,091 That was one. 912 00:45:40,091 --> 00:45:40,811 What's another one? 913 00:45:43,001 --> 00:45:48,551 Um, well the biggest hack is pricing and bundlings, I would say to have 914 00:45:48,551 --> 00:45:52,031 immediate, uh, immediate, uh, impact. 915 00:45:52,271 --> 00:45:57,506 I mean, What people don't put a lot of effort in is thinking 916 00:45:57,506 --> 00:46:00,446 about what is the sweet spot pricing your product should have. 917 00:46:00,446 --> 00:46:00,536 Mm-hmm. 918 00:46:00,866 --> 00:46:03,236 And constantly, uh, testing and iterating. 919 00:46:03,241 --> 00:46:06,866 So you have to understand that there is a magic number. 920 00:46:06,926 --> 00:46:10,706 There is a magic number for your product that people instantly decide 921 00:46:10,706 --> 00:46:13,796 if this is good or bad or cheaper, expensive, or it's worth the money. 922 00:46:14,126 --> 00:46:19,751 So, Having a lot of tests, uh, uh, for that is super crucial to have the right 923 00:46:19,751 --> 00:46:21,581 conversion rate and the right aov. 924 00:46:21,791 --> 00:46:25,331 So if your product is, if you're, if you, there's a whole psychology 925 00:46:25,331 --> 00:46:29,321 behind several books around it as well of how you should write, uh, 926 00:46:29,321 --> 00:46:30,701 how you should come up with a price. 927 00:46:30,851 --> 00:46:30,911 Yeah. 928 00:46:30,941 --> 00:46:35,021 But having prices that are very easily anchored on experiences of, like this 929 00:46:35,021 --> 00:46:38,231 19.99, just below 20, what is 20 for me? 930 00:46:38,291 --> 00:46:39,731 Maybe 20 is a dining out. 931 00:46:40,026 --> 00:46:45,756 Maybe 20 is, uh, is, uh, something I would spend in an afternoon. 932 00:46:45,876 --> 00:46:47,676 So, okay, 20 definitely worth it. 933 00:46:48,216 --> 00:46:49,806 It's 23.50. 934 00:46:50,016 --> 00:46:51,066 23.50. 935 00:46:51,066 --> 00:46:52,176 What is 23.50? 936 00:46:52,176 --> 00:46:52,416 Like? 937 00:46:52,656 --> 00:46:53,766 It's something in the middle. 938 00:46:53,766 --> 00:46:55,176 It's broken, so okay. 939 00:46:55,176 --> 00:46:58,986 Maybe you're going to have a way higher conversion rate if you put this to 19.99. 940 00:46:59,316 --> 00:47:02,226 So constantly testing and iterating on pricing. 941 00:47:02,286 --> 00:47:05,856 It's one of the biggest things entrepreneurs should, uh, spend 942 00:47:05,856 --> 00:47:07,986 a lot of time, uh, iterating on. 943 00:47:07,986 --> 00:47:08,316 And. 944 00:47:09,011 --> 00:47:12,101 These are one of the things that you change today, 945 00:47:12,221 --> 00:47:13,931 tomorrow, maximum in one week. 946 00:47:13,931 --> 00:47:16,781 You already have a good feedback if this was a good or a bad decision. 947 00:47:16,961 --> 00:47:17,491 Yeah, yeah. 948 00:47:17,711 --> 00:47:18,491 Uh, it does. 949 00:47:18,491 --> 00:47:22,571 It's not gonna have a huge, uh, implication and take months to figure 950 00:47:22,576 --> 00:47:26,711 out, but this can have a significant impact in your business, both in 951 00:47:26,716 --> 00:47:30,371 a profitability as well as finding the right conversion rate lever. 952 00:47:31,226 --> 00:47:32,486 And the second thing is bundling. 953 00:47:32,966 --> 00:47:38,276 Um, we found that, okay, if we really need to get to a higher and higher aov, 954 00:47:38,276 --> 00:47:43,346 we need to have a portfolio of products that enables us to create bundles. 955 00:47:43,886 --> 00:47:48,926 And, uh, these bundles are later on sold in a way that the best value for money. 956 00:47:49,546 --> 00:47:50,836 Way better value for money. 957 00:47:50,836 --> 00:47:51,046 So, mm-hmm. 958 00:47:51,526 --> 00:47:55,756 In this way, you can significantly shoot up your, your AOV and achieve 959 00:47:55,756 --> 00:47:59,056 a much higher profitability just because, uh, you're selling, 960 00:47:59,116 --> 00:48:00,616 uh, more products in one go. 961 00:48:00,916 --> 00:48:05,746 So bundling is also something people have to really come up with, uh, develop 962 00:48:05,751 --> 00:48:08,926 and give visibility in the website so customers don't have to think too much. 963 00:48:09,446 --> 00:48:11,336 This is the best value for managed package. 964 00:48:11,396 --> 00:48:11,936 Go for it. 965 00:48:12,086 --> 00:48:12,296 Yeah. 966 00:48:12,336 --> 00:48:12,616 Yeah. 967 00:48:12,626 --> 00:48:16,976 And we see it over and over that this is one of the, the best tricks to actually 968 00:48:16,976 --> 00:48:18,616 get to a better place, uh mm-hmm. 969 00:48:18,696 --> 00:48:19,336 Financially. 970 00:48:20,216 --> 00:48:20,996 Fantastic. 971 00:48:21,626 --> 00:48:24,986 I feel like we should do an entire episode just on how to do bundles because it's 972 00:48:24,986 --> 00:48:29,996 always a hot topic of conversation, but, um, uh, they're great hacks. 973 00:48:30,086 --> 00:48:31,256 Uh, really like them. 974 00:48:31,256 --> 00:48:34,916 Leo, listen, I'm aware of time and, uh, time always feels like 975 00:48:34,916 --> 00:48:37,646 it's against me when I get into these conversations on the podcast. 976 00:48:38,216 --> 00:48:41,906 So if people listening to the show wanna find out more about you want 977 00:48:41,906 --> 00:48:45,416 to connect, want to maybe look at how to work with Jump Ventures, 978 00:48:45,416 --> 00:48:46,826 what's the best way to do that? 979 00:48:47,876 --> 00:48:48,326 Sure. 980 00:48:48,386 --> 00:48:51,026 Um, if they want to connect, they can definitely connect on LinkedIn. 981 00:48:51,086 --> 00:48:55,796 Uh, you can find me at, uh, Leonardo Caracas from Jump Ventures and if they 982 00:48:55,796 --> 00:49:01,376 are entrepreneurs, uh, that are in the six figures are in that, uh, 1 million range 983 00:49:01,376 --> 00:49:05,726 or a little bit below, and they think they have a interesting company to, to, to be 984 00:49:05,726 --> 00:49:08,036 mentor or coached, we do this pro bono. 985 00:49:08,036 --> 00:49:12,236 So we actually mentor and coach, uh, companies that we believe have the 986 00:49:12,241 --> 00:49:14,066 potential to scale, uh, pro bono. 987 00:49:14,066 --> 00:49:16,626 And they can go to our website jumpventures.co. 988 00:49:16,701 --> 00:49:18,551 So jumpventures.co. 989 00:49:19,041 --> 00:49:22,491 Uh, fill in the, the intake form and we can try to have a 990 00:49:22,491 --> 00:49:23,901 conversation and see if we can help. 991 00:49:24,531 --> 00:49:25,251 Fantastic. 992 00:49:25,551 --> 00:49:26,271 Fantastic. 993 00:49:27,021 --> 00:49:31,341 Well, Leo, listen, um, we will of course link to all of that 994 00:49:31,346 --> 00:49:33,261 information in this show notes as well. 995 00:49:33,266 --> 00:49:36,951 So, uh, thanks for coming on the show, man. 996 00:49:36,951 --> 00:49:41,511 How, I guess, what's, what does the future look like for Jump Ventures? 997 00:49:41,511 --> 00:49:43,371 What's the next big step for you? 998 00:49:45,011 --> 00:49:48,971 Well, we are now accelerating a portfolio of companies that we, we 999 00:49:48,971 --> 00:49:53,111 really believe, and we are constantly getting new people, new companies, 1000 00:49:53,111 --> 00:49:57,701 new founders that we believe in, uh, uh, to invest and accelerate. 1001 00:49:58,031 --> 00:49:58,121 Mm-hmm. 1002 00:49:58,361 --> 00:50:03,311 So we, yeah, the future looks, uh, for us, a very interesting space where 1003 00:50:03,311 --> 00:50:06,996 we become the, uh, Thought leaders, uh, so to say, because we have a 1004 00:50:06,996 --> 00:50:10,716 proposition that is very different from, from what we see in the industry. 1005 00:50:10,746 --> 00:50:15,636 We don't see anyone playing both cards as an investor, but also an accelerator. 1006 00:50:16,056 --> 00:50:16,206 Mm-hmm. 1007 00:50:16,451 --> 00:50:18,426 Um, and we believe that we can become thought leaders 1008 00:50:18,426 --> 00:50:20,556 for the D2C uh, e-com space. 1009 00:50:20,556 --> 00:50:23,346 And, uh, for us as what we are, we are aspiring to do. 1010 00:50:24,116 --> 00:50:24,776 Fantastic. 1011 00:50:25,046 --> 00:50:25,706 Fantastic. 1012 00:50:26,126 --> 00:50:28,886 Well, listen, uh, Leo, all the best with that and thanks 1013 00:50:28,886 --> 00:50:29,966 for coming on the show, man. 1014 00:50:29,966 --> 00:50:34,136 Genuinely enjoyed the conversation and, um, really appreciate your insight. 1015 00:50:34,136 --> 00:50:36,566 It's been, I've got pages of nights, uh, which has been 1016 00:50:36,566 --> 00:50:38,516 fun, so thanks for coming on. 1017 00:50:39,326 --> 00:50:39,986 Thanks, Matt. 1018 00:50:40,076 --> 00:50:41,246 Uh, thanks a lot. 1019 00:50:41,246 --> 00:50:44,396 Thanks for all the listeners and I hope I, it was helpful and for everyone. 1020 00:50:44,396 --> 00:50:45,056 Happy sales. 1021 00:50:45,836 --> 00:50:46,886 Yeah, absolutely. 1022 00:50:46,886 --> 00:50:47,396 Happy sales. 1023 00:50:47,396 --> 00:50:48,416 No, you're definitely helpful. 1024 00:50:48,836 --> 00:50:50,426 What a great conversation. 1025 00:50:50,431 --> 00:50:50,786 Huge. 1026 00:50:50,786 --> 00:50:53,426 Thanks again to Leo for joining me today. 1027 00:50:53,696 --> 00:50:56,696 Also, a big shout out to today's show sponsor. 1028 00:50:56,861 --> 00:50:57,911 The e-commerce cohort. 1029 00:50:57,911 --> 00:51:01,541 Remember to check out their training, uh, at eCommerce cycles.com. 1030 00:51:01,781 --> 00:51:05,111 And be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast 1031 00:51:05,111 --> 00:51:08,801 from because we've got yet more great conversations lined up and I 1032 00:51:08,831 --> 00:51:11,231 don't want you to miss any of them. 1033 00:51:11,411 --> 00:51:17,111 And in case no one has told you yet today, you are awesome. 1034 00:51:17,546 --> 00:51:18,716 Yes, you are awesome. 1035 00:51:18,716 --> 00:51:19,466 Created awesome. 1036 00:51:19,496 --> 00:51:21,536 It's just a burden you've got to bear. 1037 00:51:21,536 --> 00:51:22,526 Leo has to bear it. 1038 00:51:22,796 --> 00:51:23,726 I've gotta bear it. 1039 00:51:24,176 --> 00:51:25,346 You've gotta bear it as well. 1040 00:51:25,556 --> 00:51:28,796 Now, the E-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 1041 00:51:28,796 --> 00:51:32,936 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 1042 00:51:33,266 --> 00:51:36,807 The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Estella 1043 00:51:36,807 --> 00:51:37,846 Robin and Tanya Hutsuliak. 1044 00:51:38,156 --> 00:51:42,236 Our theme song was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you 1045 00:51:42,236 --> 00:51:43,736 would like to read the transcript. 1046 00:51:43,781 --> 00:51:47,231 Or show notes, just simply head over to the website, 1047 00:51:47,471 --> 00:51:51,671 which is eCommerce podcast.net. 1048 00:51:52,001 --> 00:51:53,201 That's it from me. 1049 00:51:53,231 --> 00:51:54,461 That's it from Leo. 1050 00:51:54,466 --> 00:51:57,881 Thank you so much for joining us, uh, wherever you are in the world. 1051 00:51:57,886 --> 00:51:59,981 Have a fantastic week. 1052 00:52:00,281 --> 00:52:01,061 I'll see you next time. 1053 00:52:01,221 --> 00:52:01,761 Bye for now.