1 00:00:13,799 --> 00:00:17,189 Matt Edmundson: Hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with 2 00:00:17,189 --> 00:00:19,310 me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:19,310 --> 00:00:25,535 This is a show designed explicitly to help you deliver eCommerce wow. 4 00:00:25,634 --> 00:00:28,475 Oh yes, we're going to get into some great stuff today in today's show. 5 00:00:28,475 --> 00:00:29,485 I'm really looking forward to this one. 6 00:00:29,485 --> 00:00:36,005 We are chatting with Zohar Hod all the way from New York, and his company One 7 00:00:36,005 --> 00:00:41,555 Creation about ethics and cookies, which if you ask me, sounds like a beautiful 8 00:00:41,555 --> 00:00:43,915 name for a podcast or a coffee shop. 9 00:00:44,145 --> 00:00:48,154 Don't know but we're going to get into all of that today, but before 10 00:00:48,155 --> 00:00:51,284 we do, let me just say quick shout out to anybody that's new to us. 11 00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:54,830 This week listening to the podcast, a very warm welcome to you. 12 00:00:55,370 --> 00:00:57,050 we get to chat about all things e-commerce. 13 00:00:57,050 --> 00:00:57,830 So I hope you enjoy it. 14 00:00:57,830 --> 00:00:59,300 I hope you get some value out of it. 15 00:00:59,300 --> 00:01:03,790 And if you do, why not hit that subscribe link or do what 16 00:01:03,790 --> 00:01:05,020 thousands of others have done. 17 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,000 Head over to the website, eCommercepodcast.net, putting your name 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,350 and email address, and we'll email you every week when a new episode is released. 19 00:01:13,750 --> 00:01:14,539 That's all we do. 20 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:17,060 Just when the episodes go out, we don't spam you. 21 00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:18,370 We don't send you all kinds of nonsense. 22 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:20,410 We just send you the email with all the notes, all the 23 00:01:20,410 --> 00:01:23,550 links from that conversation. 24 00:01:23,550 --> 00:01:26,350 So if you're subscribed to the newsletter, you would get all of 25 00:01:26,350 --> 00:01:28,359 Zohar's links, transcriptions. 26 00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:29,170 They all come on email. 27 00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:29,800 It's a piece of cake. 28 00:01:29,809 --> 00:01:30,320 It's wonderful. 29 00:01:30,340 --> 00:01:30,819 It's lovely. 30 00:01:31,099 --> 00:01:32,009 Go ahead, sign up. 31 00:01:32,179 --> 00:01:34,279 If not, just hit the, subscribe link. 32 00:01:34,380 --> 00:01:36,520 Either way, it's great that you're here. 33 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,199 Now this show is sponsored by the wonderful eCommerce Cohort. 34 00:01:41,705 --> 00:01:43,445 which is our monthly membership group. 35 00:01:44,365 --> 00:01:45,684 I'm in there every month. 36 00:01:45,765 --> 00:01:48,714 We are always doing expert workshops. 37 00:01:48,714 --> 00:01:52,844 We have guests from previous shows just deep dive into some of the stuff 38 00:01:52,844 --> 00:01:55,755 that they were talking about even more. 39 00:01:55,755 --> 00:01:58,904 And they do these great value workshops that we can get involved with. 40 00:01:59,304 --> 00:02:01,855 I use them with my company all the time. 41 00:02:02,585 --> 00:02:04,964 We just sit around actually, just once a month, we watch the 42 00:02:04,964 --> 00:02:07,045 video and we spend hours chatting about it, which is just great. 43 00:02:07,045 --> 00:02:09,084 It's made a big difference to my own eCommerce businesses. 44 00:02:09,644 --> 00:02:11,264 So do check out Cohort at eCommerceCohort. 45 00:02:11,265 --> 00:02:15,074 com, it's eCommerceCohort. 46 00:02:15,074 --> 00:02:18,575 com, it'd be great to see you in there. 47 00:02:19,005 --> 00:02:21,435 Now, shall we talk? 48 00:02:21,575 --> 00:02:25,765 About our fantabulous guest, I think we should, Zohar, the brain behind 49 00:02:26,175 --> 00:02:32,325 One Creation Corporation is the go to guru for building trust through 50 00:02:32,325 --> 00:02:35,144 privacy centric tech delights. 51 00:02:35,174 --> 00:02:36,284 Oh yes. 52 00:02:36,565 --> 00:02:41,154 With his 25 year saga spanning finance and tech, including a 53 00:02:41,154 --> 00:02:44,220 game-changing stint at Digital Asset. 54 00:02:44,230 --> 00:02:48,300 He's part strategist, part innovator and all wizard. 55 00:02:48,370 --> 00:02:49,019 Oh, yes. 56 00:02:49,250 --> 00:02:54,329 As a speaker, he mixes finance, tech and privacy into a cocktail of 57 00:02:54,339 --> 00:02:59,609 insights, making the complex world of fin-tech and retail marketing as 58 00:02:59,709 --> 00:03:02,560 understandable as your morning coffee. 59 00:03:02,890 --> 00:03:04,579 Zohar, welcome to the show, man. 60 00:03:04,579 --> 00:03:05,160 Great to have you. 61 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:05,810 How are you doing? 62 00:03:06,709 --> 00:03:07,610 Zohar Hod: Thank you for having me. 63 00:03:07,750 --> 00:03:08,829 Very nice to meet you, Matt. 64 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:10,180 Matt Edmundson: No, it's great that you're here. 65 00:03:10,180 --> 00:03:12,790 All the way from new We were, saying, weren't we before? 66 00:03:13,089 --> 00:03:14,290 before we hit the record button. 67 00:03:14,290 --> 00:03:15,760 That New York is so cool. 68 00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:17,220 You have to say it twice. 69 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:18,090 All the way from New York. 70 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:18,510 New York, 71 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:19,990 Zohar Hod: Absolutely. 72 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:20,700 Love New York. 73 00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:21,430 Matt Edmundson: yeah. 74 00:03:21,700 --> 00:03:24,070 Are you, you sound like you're from New York. 75 00:03:24,070 --> 00:03:27,220 Actually, I can hear the New York accent. 76 00:03:27,220 --> 00:03:28,060 Have you always lived there? 77 00:03:29,079 --> 00:03:33,430 Zohar Hod: Yes, most of my life, approximately, I was originally born 78 00:03:33,430 --> 00:03:38,149 in Israel, but approximately 35 years of my life I've lived in New York area. 79 00:03:38,699 --> 00:03:39,140 So yeah, 80 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:40,250 Matt Edmundson: Do you like it there? 81 00:03:40,250 --> 00:03:40,730 You must do. 82 00:03:40,735 --> 00:03:41,690 If you spent 35 83 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:43,160 Zohar Hod: I do. 84 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:44,170 It's the center of the world. 85 00:03:44,170 --> 00:03:46,730 It feels like a great energy, to be here. 86 00:03:46,740 --> 00:03:50,380 So I definitely recommend anyone that, has not been. 87 00:03:51,050 --> 00:03:52,140 to make the trip. 88 00:03:52,664 --> 00:03:53,534 Matt Edmundson: yeah, I love it. 89 00:03:53,534 --> 00:03:56,394 I took my kids there a few years ago, and my two boys. 90 00:03:56,394 --> 00:03:58,604 We were doing a big road trip in America, and we went to New 91 00:03:58,604 --> 00:04:00,515 York for a few, a few days. 92 00:04:00,935 --> 00:04:03,415 Had the biggest times, just doing all the touristy things. 93 00:04:04,305 --> 00:04:05,505 Just love the city, love it. 94 00:04:05,505 --> 00:04:05,824 It's great. 95 00:04:05,824 --> 00:04:08,224 It's got a great energy, great vibe about it. 96 00:04:09,054 --> 00:04:11,534 You must have seen some interesting stuff, though, on the streets 97 00:04:11,534 --> 00:04:12,544 of New York over the time. 98 00:04:13,325 --> 00:04:18,189 I tell you what, one year literally, I bumped into Pamela Anderson in New York. 99 00:04:18,259 --> 00:04:19,709 I literally bumped into her. 100 00:04:20,459 --> 00:04:20,890 Zohar Hod: Really. 101 00:04:21,339 --> 00:04:23,159 Matt Edmundson: yeah, It was just fascinating, just, 102 00:04:23,380 --> 00:04:24,409 what happens in New York? 103 00:04:24,450 --> 00:04:26,219 You just bump into famous people all the time, it 104 00:04:26,450 --> 00:04:31,109 Zohar Hod: I once seen Sigourney Weaver, ordering coffee in front 105 00:04:31,109 --> 00:04:34,700 of me and that, that was my highlight of, New York celebrities. 106 00:04:35,039 --> 00:04:39,210 But yeah, New York, has its ups and downs, and sometimes it's more or less dodgy. 107 00:04:40,219 --> 00:04:45,849 I think it's in the up, of the dodginess right now, but it's still, a very good 108 00:04:45,849 --> 00:04:50,094 place and, a wonderful place where you can, Enjoy a lot of culture and a lot 109 00:04:50,094 --> 00:04:52,034 of different, restaurants, for sure. 110 00:04:52,409 --> 00:04:54,940 Matt Edmundson: Oh yeah, great pastrami and great bagels, 111 00:04:55,739 --> 00:04:57,400 is my, overarching memory. 112 00:04:57,449 --> 00:04:58,609 So yeah, fantastic. 113 00:04:59,289 --> 00:05:01,929 So tell me a bit about you and tell me a little bit about the 114 00:05:01,929 --> 00:05:03,209 company and what you guys do. 115 00:05:04,005 --> 00:05:07,645 Zohar Hod: Yeah, I'm a serial entrepreneur. 116 00:05:07,645 --> 00:05:10,344 This is my, fifth startup involvement. 117 00:05:10,549 --> 00:05:11,099 Matt Edmundson: Oh, wow. 118 00:05:11,755 --> 00:05:16,194 Zohar Hod: I wasn't always, the founder, but maybe usually in the early team 119 00:05:16,534 --> 00:05:19,635 and, mostly in the financial technology. 120 00:05:20,205 --> 00:05:25,705 space, I would consider myself a data geek and interested in insights and, 121 00:05:25,819 --> 00:05:25,839 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 122 00:05:26,824 --> 00:05:30,294 Zohar Hod: and customer analytics, but the story of one creation really 123 00:05:30,294 --> 00:05:32,005 started as a personal story of mine. 124 00:05:32,015 --> 00:05:36,884 My son was diagnosed with type one diabetes and, right at the 125 00:05:36,885 --> 00:05:40,984 hospital, we, I had to sign up some documents that most people sign. 126 00:05:41,755 --> 00:05:46,175 when they check in their children, and, a few days later, we started getting 127 00:05:46,175 --> 00:05:50,344 bombarded by medical device companies that are related to his condition, and 128 00:05:50,344 --> 00:05:53,875 that really ticked me off, and I wanted to do something about it, that's the 129 00:05:53,875 --> 00:06:00,844 motivation around, One Creation, the ability to create one, preference, center 130 00:06:00,984 --> 00:06:05,919 for who I am, not just for, What I want to do with the brand, but, trying to 131 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:12,029 create much more personalized experiences for your brands and doing that in an 132 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,819 ethical way, because until now, and we talked about cookies in the beginning 133 00:06:15,819 --> 00:06:21,710 of your conversation, cookies were the main mechanism to actually try to track 134 00:06:21,740 --> 00:06:26,829 what Matt is doing around the internet and try to infer according to that data 135 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,799 how to personalize, Matt's experience. 136 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,439 So when the email goes out from your, group, it needs to say, hi, Matt, 137 00:06:34,439 --> 00:06:36,849 and be more personalized to yourself. 138 00:06:36,849 --> 00:06:43,449 And therefore bar none, you will interact much more with a personalized ad than you 139 00:06:43,449 --> 00:06:45,309 would with one that's not personalized. 140 00:06:45,599 --> 00:06:49,230 So take yourself a few years, into our. 141 00:06:50,755 --> 00:06:51,565 into now. 142 00:06:51,775 --> 00:06:57,125 And what you've seen is both Apple and Google now blocking cookies from 143 00:06:57,125 --> 00:06:59,085 being collected from their browsers. 144 00:06:59,914 --> 00:07:05,064 And that means, this is just 1 percent of Google's Chrome users, 145 00:07:05,075 --> 00:07:09,254 meant 300 million people were not, or created signal loss for them. 146 00:07:09,254 --> 00:07:13,965 They were not creating any signals behind as they're, traveling around the internet. 147 00:07:14,325 --> 00:07:16,734 Now, that's a good thing, okay? 148 00:07:16,734 --> 00:07:17,645 Why is it a good thing? 149 00:07:17,645 --> 00:07:24,010 Because of my sons experience rather than, take my consent in kind of a creepy 150 00:07:24,010 --> 00:07:29,669 way and then allow my data to be sold to third party, members and vendors 151 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,799 that I've never heard of before in my life, there should be a better mechanism 152 00:07:33,829 --> 00:07:35,980 to try and personalize my experience. 153 00:07:36,169 --> 00:07:37,589 And there comes the trust. 154 00:07:38,609 --> 00:07:44,049 the need to do that in, a very trusted mechanism and one that has 155 00:07:44,059 --> 00:07:45,629 potentially the exchange of value. 156 00:07:46,159 --> 00:07:49,870 But also the security to know that if the brand is telling you, Hey, I'm 157 00:07:49,870 --> 00:07:53,729 going to use your data, Matt, for this particular reason, for this particular 158 00:07:53,729 --> 00:07:57,309 time, that they're actually going to be able to show you that they're 159 00:07:57,309 --> 00:07:59,199 standing behind what they're saying. 160 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:03,669 So changing a little bit of the business model, which today relies on very kind 161 00:08:03,669 --> 00:08:08,500 of creepy tracking devices that are behind the scenes, that are becoming 162 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:11,929 more expensive and less efficient because of those technological, 163 00:08:12,559 --> 00:08:14,140 changes that I spoke about before. 164 00:08:14,619 --> 00:08:16,469 That's really what we're trying to solve. 165 00:08:16,469 --> 00:08:20,619 And what we are is an engine, a preference engine, a digital preference 166 00:08:20,619 --> 00:08:24,579 engine that sits in between your customer data platform, where you're 167 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:29,879 analyzing all of that 360 picture of your customer, and wherever your 168 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:34,530 customer is met, meaning in the email, the website, the mobile application, 169 00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:39,100 text, whatever the customer experience is, to make sure that next time instead 170 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:41,860 of acceptal cookies, rejectal cookies. 171 00:08:42,140 --> 00:08:47,469 Maybe there's a different experience that progressively builds, progressively 172 00:08:47,469 --> 00:08:52,679 builds a profile of who Matt is, and therefore constantly and automatically 173 00:08:53,020 --> 00:08:58,149 takes that, those insights and improves your personalization as you become more 174 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,030 and more of a loyal customer of the brand. 175 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,970 That's what we're trying to sell to brands and corporations as not only 176 00:09:06,189 --> 00:09:11,015 a very impactful type of way to do business, But the right way, the 177 00:09:11,025 --> 00:09:15,745 better way, the cheaper way to try and get personal with your customers. 178 00:09:17,999 --> 00:09:20,139 Matt Edmundson: it's, interesting listening to you talk. 179 00:09:20,830 --> 00:09:23,620 I have kids of my own, not as, as young as yours. 180 00:09:23,620 --> 00:09:30,140 I'm a, I'm slightly older on in life, Zohar, but, It's interesting 181 00:09:30,140 --> 00:09:36,450 listening to you talk because how would I feel if I went to the hospital, I 182 00:09:36,450 --> 00:09:39,689 signed some forms because I'm, and I'm not going to read the fine print 183 00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:41,830 because my son's in hospital, right? 184 00:09:41,859 --> 00:09:44,790 And even if I could read it, would I understand it? 185 00:09:44,809 --> 00:09:46,040 Because these things are deliberately 186 00:09:46,084 --> 00:09:47,015 Zohar Hod: are you going to do about it? 187 00:09:47,574 --> 00:09:48,895 Matt Edmundson: yeah, I'm not gonna sign it. 188 00:09:49,064 --> 00:09:49,695 then you don't get that. 189 00:09:49,695 --> 00:09:52,655 It doesn't, you it's problematic, isn't it? 190 00:09:54,625 --> 00:09:58,775 And so, I get that I can see why that's a triggering event 191 00:09:58,795 --> 00:10:00,024 because I think I'd be the same. 192 00:10:00,025 --> 00:10:01,125 I'd be like, hang on a minute. 193 00:10:01,614 --> 00:10:02,534 This is ridiculous. 194 00:10:02,534 --> 00:10:06,774 They're tracking an 11 year old son like this and bombarding me with stuff already. 195 00:10:07,534 --> 00:10:10,795 And so what started out as something that was actually quite helpful, you 196 00:10:10,795 --> 00:10:12,405 could create personalized experience. 197 00:10:12,405 --> 00:10:15,645 Marketers have yet again gone and screwed up royally because that's what we do. 198 00:10:15,645 --> 00:10:17,904 So on one hand, I, yeah. 199 00:10:18,285 --> 00:10:21,175 I sit here and I listen to you go, and I think about my personal privacy 200 00:10:21,175 --> 00:10:24,985 and I'm like, yes, actually, I, am getting more and more concerned 201 00:10:24,985 --> 00:10:27,564 with how my information is used. 202 00:10:30,135 --> 00:10:32,655 that doesn't change my web browsing behavior. 203 00:10:32,655 --> 00:10:35,694 I just tend to click accept all cookies or reject all cookies. 204 00:10:35,695 --> 00:10:38,114 And it doesn't really seem to do any difference if I'm honest with you. 205 00:10:40,525 --> 00:10:44,635 But then the marketer side of me is actually that information is actually 206 00:10:44,635 --> 00:10:48,635 quite helpful to have, just to create these personalized experience. 207 00:10:48,645 --> 00:10:51,924 So there is this tension here, isn't there, between the two things and you. 208 00:10:52,225 --> 00:10:55,095 And you're somehow trying to walk the line between the two. 209 00:10:55,365 --> 00:10:56,745 Is, am I understanding that right? 210 00:10:57,205 --> 00:10:57,555 Zohar Hod: Correct. 211 00:10:58,605 --> 00:11:02,445 let's talk about you pressing the, accept or reject all cookies. 212 00:11:02,995 --> 00:11:06,365 first of all, it's becoming really meaningless because let's separate 213 00:11:06,385 --> 00:11:10,824 between first party cookies, which are session cookies, which basically are 214 00:11:10,835 --> 00:11:15,184 meant to understand who you are and what you're doing on our site versus 215 00:11:15,185 --> 00:11:18,915 cookies that are third party cookies, which are basically just tracking and 216 00:11:18,915 --> 00:11:21,385 trying to target exactly who you are. 217 00:11:21,545 --> 00:11:24,295 And those are much more creepier than the first ones. 218 00:11:25,555 --> 00:11:28,925 Just from a percentages perspective, if you ask people three years ago, 219 00:11:29,255 --> 00:11:31,545 the amount of knowledge they had about what's being done with their 220 00:11:31,555 --> 00:11:33,584 data was very minimal, close to 3%. 221 00:11:34,195 --> 00:11:39,225 Yet at the same time, 60 to 70 percent of them were pressing the accept all 222 00:11:39,245 --> 00:11:43,794 cookies, because otherwise you cannot actually continue forward in the process. 223 00:11:43,795 --> 00:11:44,949 Today things have changed. 224 00:11:45,140 --> 00:11:48,240 Especially because of GDPR and other types of digital markets 225 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,420 regulations that have just, passed. 226 00:11:51,180 --> 00:11:53,640 and customers, first of all, are more aware of what 227 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:54,479 you're doing with their data. 228 00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:58,799 And some of them, just for the convenience, might press yes. 229 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:01,610 And that's about 40 percent of the individuals. 230 00:12:01,969 --> 00:12:02,469 Yet. 231 00:12:03,084 --> 00:12:06,755 If you look at the other side of it, there's approximately 60 percent that 232 00:12:06,755 --> 00:12:12,165 are either saying no or saying I'd like to just use functional cookies. 233 00:12:12,354 --> 00:12:17,865 And by the way, that practice of trying to get you to click on more clicks in 234 00:12:17,865 --> 00:12:21,965 order to say no just for functional is becoming illegal in the UK, for 235 00:12:21,965 --> 00:12:24,265 example, under the digital regulations. 236 00:12:24,574 --> 00:12:26,894 So there's still a large amount. 237 00:12:27,469 --> 00:12:31,430 Of customers that at the point of acceptance, you're really playing a 238 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:36,590 Russian roulette and you're missing an opportunity to be able to personalize 239 00:12:36,594 --> 00:12:41,449 their experience in a much more sincere manner and actually reward them as well. 240 00:12:41,449 --> 00:12:42,830 There's gonna be an exchange of value. 241 00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:49,180 Oh, Matt, I see that you're interested in this product, please just confirm 242 00:12:49,180 --> 00:12:53,430 that this is what you prefer, this type of color, for example, and, 243 00:12:54,070 --> 00:12:58,599 we'll give you a relative discount to this, and it has to be proportional. 244 00:12:58,990 --> 00:13:03,869 And that type of a relationship will lead to deeper, longer term relationships 245 00:13:03,890 --> 00:13:08,840 that are based on trust, and hence the need to, to earn that trust. 246 00:13:10,495 --> 00:13:11,245 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's interesting. 247 00:13:12,474 --> 00:13:13,075 it's interesting. 248 00:13:13,805 --> 00:13:17,044 When we were talking about this in the, introduction, we called this 249 00:13:17,054 --> 00:13:19,145 the ethics, ethics and cookies. 250 00:13:20,915 --> 00:13:26,015 and There is, it's an interesting ethical debate, isn't it? 251 00:13:26,015 --> 00:13:27,805 In terms of how much data is stored. 252 00:13:27,824 --> 00:13:30,155 Now we, I'm going back a few years. 253 00:13:30,905 --> 00:13:35,284 Cambridge Analytica was probably one of the big, breaking stories of the time. 254 00:13:35,875 --> 00:13:39,474 And then Apple coming along after that and going, yeah, we're just 255 00:13:39,475 --> 00:13:42,035 not going to let Facebook do what Facebook has been doing anymore. 256 00:13:42,255 --> 00:13:46,645 And that causing Facebook to take out a full page ad, I think they took out in the 257 00:13:46,645 --> 00:13:47,655 New York Times or something, didn't they? 258 00:13:48,854 --> 00:13:51,964 that didn't do them any good, just waste a few quid, as we like to say. 259 00:13:52,334 --> 00:14:01,965 But the, it's interesting how it started with, or maybe it didn't start with, in my 260 00:14:01,965 --> 00:14:03,534 head it started with Cambridge Analytica. 261 00:14:03,534 --> 00:14:10,574 And that's that big mass, expose, but it took a company like Apple to go, yeah, 262 00:14:10,574 --> 00:14:12,344 we're not going to do this anymore. 263 00:14:15,024 --> 00:14:21,734 rather than the little guy going, I, want choice and I'm intrigued by that. 264 00:14:22,724 --> 00:14:23,174 do you know what I mean? 265 00:14:23,464 --> 00:14:24,274 I'm intrigued that 266 00:14:24,429 --> 00:14:24,629 Zohar Hod: Yeah. 267 00:14:24,994 --> 00:14:26,224 Matt Edmundson: was somebody like Apple that 268 00:14:27,094 --> 00:14:29,314 Zohar Hod: Let me, add some, some clarity to that. 269 00:14:30,204 --> 00:14:37,354 as of iOS 17, which is the latest, iOS for Apple, Safari is not collecting at 270 00:14:37,354 --> 00:14:42,164 all, cookies, and there's, as you said, they created a massive wall of privacy. 271 00:14:44,554 --> 00:14:46,264 that's admirable on one hand. 272 00:14:46,854 --> 00:14:51,314 The other hand is the question is what's next and Is that really the only reason? 273 00:14:51,764 --> 00:14:54,944 Meaning if you're Apple and you're interested in creating a walled garden, 274 00:14:55,224 --> 00:15:00,084 where you're going to be the one in between the customers and the brands, that 275 00:15:00,184 --> 00:15:04,484 are interested in their data, how easy it is to now use this infrastructure to 276 00:15:04,484 --> 00:15:09,534 go back to you and say, Hey, this vendor wants to pay you a little bit for getting 277 00:15:09,534 --> 00:15:11,174 a little bit more information about you. 278 00:15:11,504 --> 00:15:15,304 60 percent of all American users are Apple users. 279 00:15:15,305 --> 00:15:20,384 That means that there's a huge signal loss related to what you're 280 00:15:20,384 --> 00:15:24,414 able to collect from customers that are just, don't track me. 281 00:15:24,614 --> 00:15:25,424 Don't track me. 282 00:15:25,664 --> 00:15:27,214 And that's happening all the time. 283 00:15:27,374 --> 00:15:30,134 Who's going to be the beneficiary, the benefactor of that? 284 00:15:30,634 --> 00:15:34,134 I would tend to think that in the long term, Apple is going to be the 285 00:15:34,404 --> 00:15:34,724 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 286 00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:35,424 Yeah. 287 00:15:35,684 --> 00:15:36,474 Zohar Hod: by doing what I just said. 288 00:15:37,104 --> 00:15:41,319 And the same for Google that realized they can actually control a lot more 289 00:15:41,319 --> 00:15:45,479 into them, they're playing a much more careful balance because, it's 290 00:15:45,479 --> 00:15:50,119 how much ad money and how much, those cookies are generating for them. 291 00:15:50,319 --> 00:15:56,679 I think that our other mechanisms and the, ethics curve, curve, the regulatory 292 00:15:56,689 --> 00:16:01,609 curve and the technological curve are all moving towards an opt in model rather than 293 00:16:01,609 --> 00:16:03,519 an opt out model that is currently there. 294 00:16:03,919 --> 00:16:08,139 Companies and brands need to wake up and do something about 295 00:16:08,139 --> 00:16:09,099 it, working the cookie list. 296 00:16:10,384 --> 00:16:15,634 Actually, McKinsey just released a report that said cookieless environment 297 00:16:15,654 --> 00:16:20,624 beyond 2024, you're actually going to pay 20 percent more for your marketing 298 00:16:20,624 --> 00:16:24,574 expenses in order to try to personalize your customer's experience because 299 00:16:24,574 --> 00:16:29,024 you're buying a lot more cookies that are maybe more expensive, less effective. 300 00:16:29,184 --> 00:16:31,954 You're spending a lot more money on data inference and analytics. 301 00:16:32,444 --> 00:16:35,164 And you're not getting what you need, which is the customer 302 00:16:35,464 --> 00:16:36,734 to actually interact with you. 303 00:16:37,064 --> 00:16:41,454 That's where we believe that we have a very big, effect from an impact 304 00:16:41,454 --> 00:16:45,284 perspective for brands that actually use this mechanism to say, we are 305 00:16:45,284 --> 00:16:49,654 going to lead the way in changing the way customers data is being treated. 306 00:16:50,394 --> 00:16:54,414 You mentioned sometimes how much data, but for how long as well, are you keeping it? 307 00:16:54,434 --> 00:16:55,364 Since I'm a baby? 308 00:16:56,594 --> 00:16:58,594 what's the data degradation related to that? 309 00:16:58,794 --> 00:17:02,154 Is there no need to continuously have a relationship with me 310 00:17:02,154 --> 00:17:03,454 that's not based on mistrust? 311 00:17:04,484 --> 00:17:08,664 That's really what we're hoping that brands are realizing, that they need 312 00:17:08,664 --> 00:17:10,364 to fill up their first party data. 313 00:17:11,064 --> 00:17:13,904 Zero party data is first party data that was volunteered to you. 314 00:17:14,104 --> 00:17:15,424 Just to explain, okay? 315 00:17:16,015 --> 00:17:19,024 if you want to fill up your, personal information, your first 316 00:17:19,024 --> 00:17:22,779 party data, What mechanisms are you going to be able to do that? 317 00:17:22,989 --> 00:17:27,909 We believe, that what we offer in terms of our technology is the right 318 00:17:28,049 --> 00:17:30,299 and ethical way of going forward. 319 00:17:31,114 --> 00:17:33,774 Matt Edmundson: So how did you, I'm curious here, we're using 320 00:17:33,774 --> 00:17:35,354 words like right and ethical. 321 00:17:35,774 --> 00:17:43,194 I'm curious how you were, how you arrived at that, stand. 322 00:17:43,594 --> 00:17:46,899 What was your thought process to get to a point where you felt Now 323 00:17:46,899 --> 00:17:51,219 actually this I feel is right and is ethical because it's, a moving target. 324 00:17:51,219 --> 00:17:54,709 It's a, it's, we're talking about it in black and white terms. 325 00:17:54,939 --> 00:17:58,929 So I'm curious to know what your thought process there is, both you and the 326 00:17:58,929 --> 00:18:03,289 company in terms of going, we think this is good, we think this is bad, 327 00:18:03,289 --> 00:18:04,499 and so this is what we're going to 328 00:18:04,659 --> 00:18:05,619 Zohar Hod: That's a great question. 329 00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:06,699 That's a great question. 330 00:18:06,719 --> 00:18:11,009 And I wish I could illustrate it also, in the way that our system works, 331 00:18:11,009 --> 00:18:16,364 but we've done a lot of research about what is trust and how to earn 332 00:18:16,414 --> 00:18:20,614 trust, and it boils down to three components, what we call the three C's. 333 00:18:21,269 --> 00:18:21,609 Matt Edmundson: Okay. 334 00:18:23,094 --> 00:18:25,634 Zohar Hod: control, clarity, and comfort. 335 00:18:25,984 --> 00:18:30,654 And this is research that's been done with large companies like Visa and others, 336 00:18:30,824 --> 00:18:33,344 so it's not a small amount of, research. 337 00:18:33,344 --> 00:18:36,069 And also we've seen it from ourinitial customers. 338 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,139 Customers need to be able, and let me give you an example. 339 00:18:41,069 --> 00:18:45,929 I've been asked to share my Nest information with my local energy utility, 340 00:18:45,959 --> 00:18:49,139 and I will get 85 in return for that. 341 00:18:49,479 --> 00:18:53,309 What's missing in that is trust, and let's go back to those three C's. 342 00:18:53,889 --> 00:18:58,789 I don't know for how long and, meaning, can I control and opt out? 343 00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:02,869 I decided that every time I pass next to my Nest, you know about me, it's creepy. 344 00:19:03,749 --> 00:19:04,369 Don't, like that. 345 00:19:04,369 --> 00:19:07,089 Can I, at any time, decide to opt out? 346 00:19:07,349 --> 00:19:08,549 That's the control factor. 347 00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:11,229 I'll feel more trustworthy of that transaction. 348 00:19:11,479 --> 00:19:12,799 Second is clarity, of course. 349 00:19:13,009 --> 00:19:14,689 Why do you need my Nest information? 350 00:19:14,689 --> 00:19:15,669 For what purposes? 351 00:19:15,939 --> 00:19:16,889 What are you going to use it? 352 00:19:16,889 --> 00:19:18,149 And who are you going to share it with? 353 00:19:18,889 --> 00:19:23,959 Because it's mostly maybe to see my spikes in usage, but is that really what it is? 354 00:19:23,959 --> 00:19:27,349 And you're going to put your company's reputation behind that. 355 00:19:27,349 --> 00:19:28,229 That's the clarity. 356 00:19:28,884 --> 00:19:30,894 Pillar of Trust, meaning the second C. 357 00:19:31,154 --> 00:19:34,054 And then the third one is comfort, which is the notion of time. 358 00:19:34,484 --> 00:19:38,294 If you told me that you took my Nest information just for a period of a week 359 00:19:39,024 --> 00:19:44,944 because you wanted to test my spikes in my usage, go ahead, but show me and prove 360 00:19:44,944 --> 00:19:49,864 to me that at the end of the week, my data is not gonna be, is gonna cease to exist. 361 00:19:50,574 --> 00:19:55,674 And yes, One Creation created a technical capability to self destruct data remotely. 362 00:19:56,349 --> 00:19:56,839 Matt Edmundson: Oh, okay. 363 00:19:57,614 --> 00:20:00,524 Zohar Hod: And that means that after a certain amount of time, In this 364 00:20:00,524 --> 00:20:03,874 case, hey, I'm going to use your Nest information for seven days, or I'm going 365 00:20:03,874 --> 00:20:08,284 to use this promotion information for only the month of Ramadan or the month 366 00:20:08,284 --> 00:20:13,314 of Christmas and whatever that is, in order to create a trust feeling that 367 00:20:13,314 --> 00:20:14,764 at the end of it, you'll get a message. 368 00:20:14,944 --> 00:20:18,564 Hey, remember you gave us this data is no longer going to be within 369 00:20:18,564 --> 00:20:20,144 24 hours is going to disappear. 370 00:20:20,374 --> 00:20:23,424 However, the brand wants to reengage with you and maybe offer you 371 00:20:23,424 --> 00:20:27,894 another reward for another set of, for another set of questions or 372 00:20:27,894 --> 00:20:29,894 preferences or anything that you might. 373 00:20:31,864 --> 00:20:35,624 We believe that those three C's build trust, we've also seen it in the 374 00:20:35,624 --> 00:20:40,624 results of our campaigns, when you go to the second question, which creates 375 00:20:40,634 --> 00:20:45,164 usually 99 percent of the people don't like the second interaction, with 376 00:20:45,164 --> 00:20:49,694 us it's over 43 percent of people reacted more, and reacted twice, and 377 00:20:49,754 --> 00:20:51,214 reacted three times, and so forth. 378 00:20:51,354 --> 00:20:54,704 So it builds trust over time, and it's a better mechanism, and those 379 00:20:54,704 --> 00:20:59,444 are the components that I can say what I mean, when I say, Trust. 380 00:21:00,244 --> 00:21:04,124 Use your customer data with those three principles and you will benefit. 381 00:21:05,199 --> 00:21:06,229 Matt Edmundson: This is really interesting. 382 00:21:06,229 --> 00:21:08,179 The control, the clarity, the comfort. 383 00:21:08,179 --> 00:21:08,719 I like the three. 384 00:21:08,729 --> 00:21:10,429 It's good alliteration, Zohar. 385 00:21:10,439 --> 00:21:11,479 Very good alliteration. 386 00:21:11,479 --> 00:21:11,859 I like that. 387 00:21:12,789 --> 00:21:14,829 we always remember alliterations, usually. 388 00:21:16,879 --> 00:21:21,119 so I'm looking for ways to, I get, I'm looking for ways to give 389 00:21:21,149 --> 00:21:22,869 the control back to the customer. 390 00:21:24,299 --> 00:21:28,839 And control mixed with clarity makes a lot of sense to me, the 391 00:21:28,839 --> 00:21:29,729 clearer you are, the better. 392 00:21:32,169 --> 00:21:38,409 how does this work for, let's say, I see how this would work for somebody like 393 00:21:38,409 --> 00:21:42,609 Nest, which is a, just for those of you who don't know, it's a bit like Ring, 394 00:21:42,609 --> 00:21:44,629 it's a home automation thing, isn't it? 395 00:21:44,649 --> 00:21:47,399 It controls your heating, there's cameras. 396 00:21:48,334 --> 00:21:52,214 We've got the smoke detectors in the ceiling that detect when I'm moving around 397 00:21:52,214 --> 00:21:54,334 the house and all that sort of stuff. 398 00:21:55,244 --> 00:21:58,514 And as far as I'm aware, Nest is Google, is that right? 399 00:21:58,974 --> 00:22:00,044 Nest is owned by Google? 400 00:22:00,174 --> 00:22:00,404 yeah. 401 00:22:00,544 --> 00:22:00,834 Yeah. 402 00:22:01,544 --> 00:22:06,404 And so I get how companies like Google, like Nest, they can go 403 00:22:06,404 --> 00:22:09,954 above and beyond, and start thinking about control, clarity and comfort. 404 00:22:09,954 --> 00:22:12,364 And they've got teams of people, I'm sure, to think about it. 405 00:22:12,964 --> 00:22:18,334 What happens if I'm, I don't know, a small business, small mom and pop online store? 406 00:22:20,219 --> 00:22:23,869 how does that work for someone like me when I'm, I don't have 407 00:22:24,179 --> 00:22:25,459 the team that Google's got? 408 00:22:26,784 --> 00:22:27,044 Zohar Hod: point. 409 00:22:27,464 --> 00:22:31,684 So let's start and say that, I'll give you another more retail type of, 410 00:22:32,534 --> 00:22:33,974 example of how this could be used. 411 00:22:34,364 --> 00:22:37,144 But imagine that you're either checking out at Boots or at, 412 00:22:38,264 --> 00:22:40,034 Sainsbury's, wherever you're 413 00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,579 Matt Edmundson: I love the fact Boots and Sainsbury's, Zohar. 414 00:22:42,599 --> 00:22:43,859 That's just, that's brilliant. 415 00:22:44,099 --> 00:22:44,439 That's brilliant. 416 00:22:44,649 --> 00:22:48,389 And for those of you listening, sorry, those of you listening outside of the UK, 417 00:22:48,639 --> 00:22:53,439 to the podcast, Boots is a pharmacy chain and Sainsbury's is a supermarket chain. 418 00:22:53,929 --> 00:22:56,699 but, the fact that you know this is extraordinary, but 419 00:22:56,709 --> 00:22:57,559 sorry, I interrupted you. 420 00:22:58,399 --> 00:22:59,209 Zohar Hod: completely fine. 421 00:22:59,209 --> 00:23:00,839 I travel a lot to London, so I 422 00:23:02,714 --> 00:23:02,924 Matt Edmundson: It 423 00:23:03,099 --> 00:23:03,209 Zohar Hod: it 424 00:23:03,574 --> 00:23:03,674 Matt Edmundson: yeah. 425 00:23:04,409 --> 00:23:05,249 Zohar Hod: my second home. 426 00:23:07,149 --> 00:23:11,299 When you go there and imagine that at the point of sale, there's a little bit 427 00:23:11,299 --> 00:23:13,049 of an interaction that says, Hey Matt! 428 00:23:13,294 --> 00:23:16,244 I see that you're buying a number seven, it's a beauty product, okay. 429 00:23:17,434 --> 00:23:18,944 this product is going to be free. 430 00:23:19,414 --> 00:23:24,464 Just answer this question and then within a week this, data will cease to exist. 431 00:23:24,664 --> 00:23:26,624 Is it for your wife, for yourself? 432 00:23:27,724 --> 00:23:28,674 maybe a second one. 433 00:23:28,684 --> 00:23:30,234 What's a skin complexion? 434 00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:33,294 You've just completed a lot of personalized information. 435 00:23:33,694 --> 00:23:37,294 There was a exchange of value, and there was a time limit 436 00:23:37,654 --> 00:23:39,614 to the, data that was used. 437 00:23:39,964 --> 00:23:42,954 At the end of the seven days or the seven weeks, whatever it was, you'll 438 00:23:42,954 --> 00:23:46,414 get a message back to your Boots or your, app that will say, Hey, remember, 439 00:23:46,414 --> 00:23:47,724 Matt, that we gave us this data? 440 00:23:47,934 --> 00:23:50,754 It's about to cease to exist, but we've partnered with Kimberly Clark. 441 00:23:50,994 --> 00:23:53,524 We'd like to know, are you expecting as well, right? 442 00:23:53,714 --> 00:23:59,904 It starts creating a much more equivalents, even feel 443 00:23:59,904 --> 00:24:00,204 relationship between them, reght? 444 00:24:00,394 --> 00:24:00,724 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 445 00:24:00,884 --> 00:24:01,024 and 446 00:24:01,024 --> 00:24:05,244 Zohar Hod: it doesn't at different points of either your onboarding customers, 447 00:24:05,464 --> 00:24:06,754 trying to learn more about them. 448 00:24:07,114 --> 00:24:10,724 And if they sign, don't market to me, that's it, you lost them. 449 00:24:10,944 --> 00:24:14,274 Rather than doing that more progressively, trying to get them 450 00:24:14,274 --> 00:24:18,344 to more progressively add traits and preferences to their partnership. 451 00:24:18,344 --> 00:24:23,294 And then the ones that are already your, loyal customers, trying to dig 452 00:24:23,534 --> 00:24:27,154 deeper because I purchased like for, the example of the boots, I might be 453 00:24:27,154 --> 00:24:31,374 purchasing my wife's reward card and that's why it's asking me the question. 454 00:24:32,164 --> 00:24:35,364 So that's a, an example of how this could be used, for instance, 455 00:24:35,364 --> 00:24:39,414 in a retail, opportunity. 456 00:24:39,414 --> 00:24:41,724 So I don't know if it answered your original 457 00:24:42,384 --> 00:24:43,864 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's an interesting, isn't it? 458 00:24:44,254 --> 00:24:44,584 How you're 459 00:24:44,764 --> 00:24:46,964 Zohar Hod: can it be done, can it be done by a small business? 460 00:24:46,964 --> 00:24:47,424 Of course. 461 00:24:47,899 --> 00:24:51,509 If you have a small online business that you're trying to personalize, you 462 00:24:51,539 --> 00:24:58,829 can create and embed the One Creation, interface, which then will, without 463 00:24:58,829 --> 00:25:03,379 cookies, collect preferences throughout your life, so even if you have a small 464 00:25:03,389 --> 00:25:08,044 B2C, direct to consumer, environment. 465 00:25:08,084 --> 00:25:12,494 If you have control over a digital venue where you're seeing your customers, 466 00:25:12,494 --> 00:25:16,174 whether it's a website, your mobile application, a point of sale, then 467 00:25:16,174 --> 00:25:17,954 yeah, you could use this very easily. 468 00:25:18,914 --> 00:25:22,484 it's literally easy to install and to, take off with it. 469 00:25:22,854 --> 00:25:23,244 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 470 00:25:23,764 --> 00:25:24,304 No, I like it. 471 00:25:24,304 --> 00:25:26,134 I love how you build interest with clients. 472 00:25:26,814 --> 00:25:32,124 I'm reminded of the time when, GDPR came in and up until that point. 473 00:25:32,924 --> 00:25:37,164 I would say most of the, I'm just thinking through how we did it and also how a lot 474 00:25:37,164 --> 00:25:38,084 of the other companies were doing it. 475 00:25:38,484 --> 00:25:39,914 You had two options with email. 476 00:25:39,994 --> 00:25:41,684 I'm either subscribed or unsubscribed. 477 00:25:42,234 --> 00:25:47,004 Then GDPR came in and actually unsubscribing was quite complicated 478 00:25:47,004 --> 00:25:47,884 with a lot of companies. 479 00:25:47,914 --> 00:25:49,864 The good companies actually made it straightforward and easy. 480 00:25:49,864 --> 00:25:53,504 They understood the value of a clean list, I think, and a motivated list. 481 00:25:54,424 --> 00:25:59,844 And what I then noticed after that sort of legislation came in was. 482 00:26:00,819 --> 00:26:03,849 I think people got wise to this and thought, actually it doesn't 483 00:26:03,859 --> 00:26:07,509 have to be one or the other, you don't have to be either on or off. 484 00:26:07,979 --> 00:26:10,969 You might, we might have six different types of emails that we 485 00:26:10,969 --> 00:26:13,399 send out, and actually what you don't want is that one over there, 486 00:26:13,399 --> 00:26:14,339 but you might want the other three. 487 00:26:14,579 --> 00:26:15,419 Four or five. 488 00:26:15,419 --> 00:26:17,189 And so you wanna stay connected to those. 489 00:26:17,989 --> 00:26:22,549 And so giving customers then the option of what they subscribe to, 490 00:26:24,389 --> 00:26:29,859 became actually, I think, quite a powerful tool in the hands of marketers 491 00:26:29,859 --> 00:26:32,229 because this is what you want. 492 00:26:32,229 --> 00:26:34,659 You want customers to tell you exactly what it is they want and 493 00:26:34,664 --> 00:26:35,684 what you are talking about here. 494 00:26:36,734 --> 00:26:41,174 With this deep dive in personalisation is exactly the same thing, but doing 495 00:26:41,174 --> 00:26:44,594 it in a more open and transparent way, rather than the sort of sly 496 00:26:44,594 --> 00:26:45,904 cookies in the background, right? 497 00:26:46,574 --> 00:26:47,214 Zohar Hod: You got it, Matt. 498 00:26:47,354 --> 00:26:48,134 That's exactly it. 499 00:26:48,164 --> 00:26:53,364 It's about collecting deeper preferences, more detailed preferences of what Matt 500 00:26:53,394 --> 00:26:55,084 would want from that relationship. 501 00:26:55,349 --> 00:26:56,729 With the brand that he trusts. 502 00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:01,519 And isn't it amazing if you can actually take those preferences with you and walk 503 00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:07,039 away and go to another brand and then not have to ask them, have them ask you again. 504 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,599 This is the notion of what they call open data, and we can support that. 505 00:27:10,604 --> 00:27:11,439 Meaning we create. 506 00:27:12,864 --> 00:27:15,044 a wallet of preferences for Matt. 507 00:27:15,494 --> 00:27:19,464 That wallet can easily be taken away from one brand and moved to another 508 00:27:19,464 --> 00:27:23,404 brand without them needing how beneficial it is to the second brand 509 00:27:23,734 --> 00:27:28,954 receiving all of your preferences before you're even, onboarded, right? 510 00:27:29,234 --> 00:27:30,824 So that's really where we see the future. 511 00:27:30,824 --> 00:27:31,814 You mentioned progression. 512 00:27:32,084 --> 00:27:33,614 That's exactly it, what we're talking about. 513 00:27:33,654 --> 00:27:37,174 You mentioned what was before GDPR to what is GDPR. 514 00:27:37,415 --> 00:27:40,624 To what now is going to be called the Digital Markets Act, right? 515 00:27:40,954 --> 00:27:45,174 And all of those are passing in one direction, the customer. 516 00:27:46,504 --> 00:27:50,394 And the customer will have a lot more controls from a regulatory perspective, 517 00:27:50,604 --> 00:27:54,384 because the other mechanisms of, any other mechanism to try and collect 518 00:27:54,384 --> 00:27:57,534 behind your scenes, It's creepy by nature 519 00:28:00,774 --> 00:28:04,304 and therefore not a good investment in my opinion. 520 00:28:05,334 --> 00:28:07,874 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I think that sort of, that creepy behind 521 00:28:07,874 --> 00:28:10,934 the scenes thing is a bit that everybody's fearful of, isn't it? 522 00:28:10,934 --> 00:28:13,744 It's the Cambridge Analytica, it's the having all this data and not quite 523 00:28:13,744 --> 00:28:16,724 understanding why, or the necessity of it. 524 00:28:18,409 --> 00:28:22,519 and I think we, everyone's been spooked by the amount of data. 525 00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:28,569 Certainly the Amazon and Facebook and organizations carry it around about you. 526 00:28:31,739 --> 00:28:37,969 what's interesting then is, how you're balancing that where the 527 00:28:37,969 --> 00:28:39,899 marketeer is also concerned. 528 00:28:40,504 --> 00:28:45,334 Because it's the, data is useful for the customer, but it's also 529 00:28:45,334 --> 00:28:46,704 useful for the marketeer, isn't it? 530 00:28:46,704 --> 00:28:52,644 To the brands to be able to, create that wealth of experience. 531 00:28:53,684 --> 00:28:58,344 if I'm sat there, Zohar thinking about my own company then, 532 00:28:58,634 --> 00:28:59,724 so I've got the three C's. 533 00:28:59,724 --> 00:29:03,344 I'm like, I'm thinking about our policy, our privacy policy at the moment, it 534 00:29:03,344 --> 00:29:04,534 just currently reads on the screen. 535 00:29:04,544 --> 00:29:05,024 You go to it. 536 00:29:05,454 --> 00:29:09,974 Are you in or out, accept all or reject all, what are some of the 537 00:29:09,984 --> 00:29:16,984 steps that I should practically do, irrespective of whether I use, one 538 00:29:16,984 --> 00:29:20,134 creation platform or not, but what are some of the steps practically that 539 00:29:20,134 --> 00:29:25,234 I should do as an eCommerce business to make the process better for my 540 00:29:25,234 --> 00:29:28,344 customers and ultimately create a better experience and more profits for me? 541 00:29:30,514 --> 00:29:33,654 Zohar Hod: it all starts from where you are on your customer experience 542 00:29:33,654 --> 00:29:35,214 from a personalization perspective. 543 00:29:35,584 --> 00:29:39,494 How much of your, marketing is driven by data? 544 00:29:40,415 --> 00:29:43,535 That's the number one question that you need to first ask yourself. 545 00:29:43,835 --> 00:29:48,695 If you are already on the path of getting to have data driven marketing, 546 00:29:48,705 --> 00:29:54,065 meaning more, precision, more targeted type of marketing, then you are on 547 00:29:54,065 --> 00:29:58,495 the way to create some sort of a persona for each one of your customers. 548 00:29:59,575 --> 00:30:00,965 So there are steps to that, right? 549 00:30:00,985 --> 00:30:05,160 You first need to want to do that, then be able to You collect the data in one 550 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,030 place and start creating a persona for my customer, and then afterwards enhancing 551 00:30:10,030 --> 00:30:15,480 it with tools like what we've offered, there will be the cookie list mechanism. 552 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,660 And that's the second question you need to ask yourself. 553 00:30:17,910 --> 00:30:21,250 Are you ready for the fact that cookies are not going to be the mechanism 554 00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:22,210 for you to track your customer? 555 00:30:22,339 --> 00:30:22,539 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 556 00:30:23,125 --> 00:30:24,315 Zohar Hod: The answer is yes. 557 00:30:24,535 --> 00:30:26,265 I want a cookie list solution. 558 00:30:26,545 --> 00:30:30,835 I am on my path to personalize my customer's experience and 559 00:30:30,835 --> 00:30:33,905 try to create a persona built for each one of my customers. 560 00:30:34,165 --> 00:30:39,805 I think then, One Creation's tool is a great mechanism to do that in an 561 00:30:39,865 --> 00:30:45,850 ethical, Long lasting, way that would feed your personalization engine. 562 00:30:46,170 --> 00:30:50,180 And just think about if you're trying to deploy the one word that 563 00:30:50,180 --> 00:30:51,820 everybody likes to talk about, AI. 564 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,920 If you're trying to deploy any AI as it relates to personalization, then the, 565 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,400 let's say the black box of it, Makes the relationship even less trustworthy. 566 00:31:01,950 --> 00:31:05,340 And that requires these type of solutions that we're talking about to 567 00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:08,980 be a lot more transparent about what went in there, who's gonna, what's 568 00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:12,190 gonna be done with my data, and for how long is that data gonna be kept. 569 00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:13,439 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 570 00:31:13,929 --> 00:31:15,399 That's a really powerful point, actually. 571 00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:21,249 my, my eldest son, he's 22. 572 00:31:22,269 --> 00:31:25,029 And I'm saying that pausing, just calculating in my head if actually 573 00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:25,899 what I've just said is correct. 574 00:31:25,939 --> 00:31:26,559 And I think it is. 575 00:31:26,589 --> 00:31:27,739 I think he's 23 this year. 576 00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:31,049 there comes a point where you just stop counting, Zohar. 577 00:31:31,219 --> 00:31:35,419 And I feel like I've reached out with him, but he's doing theoretical physics. 578 00:31:36,189 --> 00:31:43,479 And, and involved in that is a lot of AI work, a lot of machine learning, a 579 00:31:43,479 --> 00:31:48,069 lot of maths, a lot of data analysis, and just figuring things out. 580 00:31:48,069 --> 00:31:52,709 The more data that they have, the more accurate the model is in a lot of ways, 581 00:31:52,959 --> 00:31:56,879 and spooky things that then can be done. 582 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,099 It's if you come onto the website at this sort of time of the day and 583 00:32:00,109 --> 00:32:04,669 you go to these three pages, then we can just by looking at this. 584 00:32:05,149 --> 00:32:08,339 Copious amounts of data figure some really interesting things out about you. 585 00:32:08,339 --> 00:32:10,839 And then I'm going to show different products on the website accordingly. 586 00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:16,099 So that brings back then to the conversation about ethics, a 587 00:32:16,099 --> 00:32:18,579 whole new paradigm, doesn't it? 588 00:32:18,579 --> 00:32:19,309 Because you're right. 589 00:32:19,309 --> 00:32:23,589 There's sort of the black box of AI, and machine learning and 590 00:32:23,589 --> 00:32:25,519 just copious amounts of data. 591 00:32:27,130 --> 00:32:27,530 Zohar Hod: Exactly. 592 00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:30,970 What are you learning about me in the back end is never the right thing. 593 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,140 So that's why transparency or the clarity part of the three C's is really important. 594 00:32:36,450 --> 00:32:37,280 And also time. 595 00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:39,000 Don't keep my data forever. 596 00:32:39,220 --> 00:32:42,765 Don't share it with other AI algorithms, right? 597 00:32:43,105 --> 00:32:46,475 I need to know about that, and I need to trust you, and therefore you 598 00:32:46,475 --> 00:32:50,775 need to be transparent, and you need to reward me for this experience. 599 00:32:51,589 --> 00:32:51,999 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 600 00:32:53,249 --> 00:32:53,829 I'm with you. 601 00:32:53,829 --> 00:32:58,544 And then in a lot of ways, It's, it's a bit like I suppose time is 602 00:32:58,544 --> 00:33:00,974 one of those things people like, I don't like to give up data. 603 00:33:01,044 --> 00:33:04,374 It's if someone's on your email list and they've not purchased from you for 604 00:33:04,375 --> 00:33:08,504 12 months, then they probably don't need to be on your email list, right? 605 00:33:08,504 --> 00:33:10,804 It's one of those where, and if you take them off. 606 00:33:11,509 --> 00:33:14,949 You tend to get much better deliverability and, et cetera, et cetera. 607 00:33:14,949 --> 00:33:17,229 And I'm assuming that the web's going to go more like this. 608 00:33:17,229 --> 00:33:20,989 And actually the, if you just talk to the people that actually want to be there 609 00:33:20,989 --> 00:33:24,839 and forget about the people that don't, you're going to have much less clutter 610 00:33:24,999 --> 00:33:28,099 under the C word and much less confusion. 611 00:33:28,429 --> 00:33:29,209 And actually you can 612 00:33:29,255 --> 00:33:29,515 Zohar Hod: quality data. 613 00:33:30,415 --> 00:33:33,565 Better quality data over a long, over a longer period of time. 614 00:33:33,795 --> 00:33:34,725 I totally agree with you. 615 00:33:36,015 --> 00:33:41,605 and, if you even include, Web3, and that discussion about what is the next 616 00:33:41,605 --> 00:33:43,105 Internet, it's the Internet to me. 617 00:33:43,445 --> 00:33:47,665 And from a technology perspective, in the Internet of Me, you will be your own 618 00:33:47,675 --> 00:33:51,205 wallet for everything, and every time you come to a brand, you will do some sort of 619 00:33:51,205 --> 00:33:54,915 a handshake, which will exchange a little bit of the data, will exchange a little 620 00:33:54,915 --> 00:34:00,165 bit of the transaction, or cash money, or tokens for it, and then will, cease 621 00:34:00,165 --> 00:34:01,765 to exist after a certain period of time. 622 00:34:02,185 --> 00:34:05,365 That's how it's going to work in the Web 3, and what we've done is we've 623 00:34:05,375 --> 00:34:08,365 brought that model over to today's world. 624 00:34:09,389 --> 00:34:10,949 Matt Edmundson: Do you think that will only exist if 625 00:34:10,949 --> 00:34:12,389 governments legislate for it? 626 00:34:12,409 --> 00:34:13,639 Because I can't see. 627 00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:19,299 Brand owners and marketeers voluntarily doing that would be my, 628 00:34:22,725 --> 00:34:23,555 Zohar Hod: it depends. 629 00:34:24,195 --> 00:34:29,365 if the, I think that, government regulation is definitely a 630 00:34:29,365 --> 00:34:30,845 good catalyst towards it. 631 00:34:31,955 --> 00:34:39,065 as you saw, the cookie deprecation by, Google and, and, Apple is another. 632 00:34:40,105 --> 00:34:44,355 Motivation towards that meaning what are the other ways of 633 00:34:44,445 --> 00:34:46,245 tracking me without tracking me? 634 00:34:48,405 --> 00:34:52,065 so there's both a technical, there's a regulatory catalyst and I would 635 00:34:52,065 --> 00:34:57,455 like to think that brands that, maybe disagree with your assessment 636 00:34:57,755 --> 00:34:59,735 are thinking the impactful. 637 00:35:00,490 --> 00:35:04,750 Effects of what a business model like this will mean, meaning 638 00:35:04,810 --> 00:35:06,490 how much is my ESG score? 639 00:35:06,670 --> 00:35:11,110 How much is it the right thing to do, and how much am I gonna get more bees 640 00:35:11,110 --> 00:35:12,760 with honey rather than with vinegar? 641 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:19,160 I believe that the first, type of brands that actually, take 642 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,170 on this type of, solution. 643 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,960 And we are already working with UK brands like Barclays, for 644 00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:27,470 that decide that. 645 00:35:28,155 --> 00:35:32,135 taking on this type of an approach in the environment that the UK is 646 00:35:33,105 --> 00:35:36,315 in order to decide whether to offer you another product or be more 647 00:35:36,315 --> 00:35:40,385 personalized, we are the right way and the right ethical way to do that. 648 00:35:40,865 --> 00:35:45,935 So it's definitely some education and, but I believe that people would want to do the 649 00:35:45,935 --> 00:35:51,505 right thing, not just what's compliant and what's technically possible, of course. 650 00:35:53,579 --> 00:35:56,229 Matt Edmundson: Fascinating stuff, absolutely fascinating 651 00:35:56,229 --> 00:36:00,319 stuff, and I'm really intrigued by the cookie less future. 652 00:36:01,609 --> 00:36:05,559 and what that means, and I'm thinking as you're talking, Zohar, I'm, like, 653 00:36:06,759 --> 00:36:10,089 what does that mean for things like the Facebook Pixel, which was a really 654 00:36:10,089 --> 00:36:14,339 big marketing tool for the long time, and we all know the answer really, and, 655 00:36:15,399 --> 00:36:19,189 what does that mean for attribution, and how we do things like that? 656 00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:22,619 There's, a whole bunch of questions in which sort of come out of that, 657 00:36:24,129 --> 00:36:28,029 which I think is going to be absolutely fascinating to see how it all, 658 00:36:28,309 --> 00:36:30,549 pans out, over the next few years. 659 00:36:32,034 --> 00:36:36,314 I love this idea of being an early adopter, actually, and, because 660 00:36:36,314 --> 00:36:40,494 I'm thinking of companies like Amazon, and you think, Amazon 661 00:36:40,514 --> 00:36:43,314 must collect gigabytes of data. 662 00:36:43,694 --> 00:36:46,914 They, know when I'm on the site, they know what products I look at, they keep 663 00:36:46,914 --> 00:36:49,524 a record of the products that I look at, how long I was looking at them, 664 00:36:49,524 --> 00:36:51,614 how far down the page that I scroll. 665 00:36:52,074 --> 00:36:54,114 the copious amounts of data. 666 00:36:57,839 --> 00:37:00,859 is, is that ethical? 667 00:37:00,859 --> 00:37:01,749 Is that right? 668 00:37:02,140 --> 00:37:09,520 Zohar Hod: No, so let me explain what a large retailer, like Amazon, what's, 669 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,430 right about what you said is that they have copious amounts of data about you. 670 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,490 That's called first party data, transactional data, right? 671 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520 What's also interesting to know is 80 percent of all searches 672 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,630 on Amazon start with a no name brand, meaning white pants men. 673 00:37:24,669 --> 00:37:24,929 Matt Edmundson: yeah, 674 00:37:25,085 --> 00:37:29,505 Zohar Hod: Okay, and therefore, in order to differentiate who you are as a brand, 675 00:37:29,835 --> 00:37:33,185 talking about hundreds of thousands, if not millions of brands on the Amazon case, 676 00:37:33,665 --> 00:37:36,145 who you are as a brand is a big issue. 677 00:37:36,315 --> 00:37:39,525 And here comes the notion of retail media networks, where it's basically, 678 00:37:40,405 --> 00:37:44,445 Amazon offers a retail media network and says, advertise on me, and therefore 679 00:37:44,455 --> 00:37:48,535 the chances that it will be white, men, black, Ralph Lauren, is going 680 00:37:48,535 --> 00:37:51,195 to be a much more, a higher chance. 681 00:37:52,895 --> 00:37:56,915 so imagine the tools or the message that I gave you about what one creation 682 00:37:56,915 --> 00:38:00,695 does as a mechanism for this retail media network to offer the brands 683 00:38:01,145 --> 00:38:05,335 an ability to run campaigns that are targeted for the individuals, but on 684 00:38:05,335 --> 00:38:07,345 the retail media network property. 685 00:38:08,050 --> 00:38:13,260 On, if somebody's looking for something, the One Creation will come and say, Ralph 686 00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:15,360 Ryan, we'll give you 50 percent off. 687 00:38:15,740 --> 00:38:18,500 If you just answer these two questions, why you're looking, is it for you? 688 00:38:18,740 --> 00:38:20,490 Are you going on a trip to Africa? 689 00:38:21,220 --> 00:38:21,670 Okay? 690 00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:27,680 That's the tool that One Creation can be offered by Amazon to the millions 691 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,845 of brands that they work with to do Targeted, precision, cookie less 692 00:38:32,525 --> 00:38:34,525 campaigning on the Amazon side. 693 00:38:34,715 --> 00:38:36,185 Amazon doesn't need cookies. 694 00:38:36,645 --> 00:38:38,255 Amazon has first party data. 695 00:38:39,065 --> 00:38:43,025 And therefore, sometimes they want to sell it to you, and they'll sell it to 696 00:38:43,025 --> 00:38:44,905 any brand, and sometimes they won't. 697 00:38:45,905 --> 00:38:49,630 The question is, how do you, as the brand, differentiate yourself on 698 00:38:49,630 --> 00:38:54,250 Amazon and the One Creation Tool, at least if it's given by Amazon, could 699 00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:58,640 be used for targeted campaigns on the Amazon Retail Media Network or 700 00:38:58,820 --> 00:39:00,520 on Sainsbury's Retail Media Network. 701 00:39:01,310 --> 00:39:03,720 Alright, so here's a tool for all the brands. 702 00:39:03,830 --> 00:39:07,900 Instead of offering buy one get one free, why don't you run targeted campaigns 703 00:39:08,170 --> 00:39:12,430 to see if Matt is really one buying diapers and what's the reason behind it. 704 00:39:13,460 --> 00:39:17,980 And then create much more perfect rewards for Matt. 705 00:39:18,395 --> 00:39:20,965 Then for anyone else that wasn't interesting in this particular. 706 00:39:21,949 --> 00:39:22,369 Matt Edmundson: yeah. 707 00:39:23,209 --> 00:39:24,029 It's clever stuff. 708 00:39:24,469 --> 00:39:25,429 It's clever stuff, isn't it? 709 00:39:25,429 --> 00:39:28,449 And it's, you've obviously put a lot of thought behind, it's your company, 710 00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:30,569 so you're obviously going to put a lot of thought behind it, but it's. 711 00:39:31,144 --> 00:39:36,484 It's intriguing, and, actually another C word, compelling, Zohar. 712 00:39:36,484 --> 00:39:39,044 I'm listening to you and I think actually what you're saying is quite compelling. 713 00:39:41,584 --> 00:39:44,804 if people want to know more about One Creation, if people want to 714 00:39:44,844 --> 00:39:47,624 reach out to you and connect with you, what's the best way to do that? 715 00:39:48,610 --> 00:39:52,780 Zohar Hod: the best way is go to one creation.com or one creation.com. 716 00:39:53,290 --> 00:39:54,040 that's our website. 717 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,700 There's all the resources there, and a way to get a hold of us or to see a demo. 718 00:39:57,970 --> 00:40:01,000 If you're any type of corporation, you don't have to be sainsbury. 719 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,730 If you're any type of corporation that wants to have an impact and 720 00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:07,910 try to get personal with your customers in a very innovative, 721 00:40:08,750 --> 00:40:11,130 forward-looking way, give us a call. 722 00:40:11,534 --> 00:40:12,154 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 723 00:40:12,174 --> 00:40:14,794 We will of course link to that in the show notes as well. 724 00:40:15,424 --> 00:40:17,234 we'll link to the website onecreation. 725 00:40:17,304 --> 00:40:17,734 com. 726 00:40:17,744 --> 00:40:21,354 So Zohar, listen, super appreciate you coming on, man. 727 00:40:21,964 --> 00:40:23,674 You have got the old grey matter. 728 00:40:24,244 --> 00:40:27,784 Thinking, which is important, I feel, and it's been a fascinating conversation. 729 00:40:28,114 --> 00:40:30,184 Is there anything else, any final things that you wanna say 730 00:40:30,184 --> 00:40:31,384 before we close out the show? 731 00:40:32,500 --> 00:40:33,760 Zohar Hod: Privacy is a human right. 732 00:40:34,435 --> 00:40:38,215 And, we really, that's one of our mottos, at One Creation. 733 00:40:38,225 --> 00:40:41,395 We believe there's a better way, to getting better information. 734 00:40:41,395 --> 00:40:46,235 So I hope, your listeners are, as excited about this vision as I am. 735 00:40:46,714 --> 00:40:47,404 Matt Edmundson: fantastic. 736 00:40:47,434 --> 00:40:48,964 And I'm sure that many will be. 737 00:40:49,084 --> 00:40:50,764 And I'm sure that there'll be many marketers going. 738 00:40:50,764 --> 00:40:52,864 No, not yet. 739 00:40:53,164 --> 00:40:54,694 I need some time to think about it. 740 00:40:55,435 --> 00:40:55,955 Zohar Hod: Exactly. 741 00:40:56,315 --> 00:40:56,855 Exactly. 742 00:40:58,484 --> 00:40:58,814 Matt Edmundson: Brilliant. 743 00:40:58,964 --> 00:41:00,254 listen, thanks for coming on the show, man. 744 00:41:00,259 --> 00:41:01,394 Genuinely, really appreciate. 745 00:41:01,394 --> 00:41:03,704 It was absolutely phenomenal to meet you. 746 00:41:03,704 --> 00:41:05,804 And thank you seriously for the conversation. 747 00:41:05,804 --> 00:41:07,424 It was, it was spots on. 748 00:41:08,345 --> 00:41:08,885 Zohar Hod: Thank you. 749 00:41:08,965 --> 00:41:09,945 Thanks for having me, Matt. 750 00:41:10,115 --> 00:41:10,625 Really appreciate it. 751 00:41:10,884 --> 00:41:11,404 Matt Edmundson: That was great. 752 00:41:11,604 --> 00:41:11,934 Great. 753 00:41:11,934 --> 00:41:13,394 What a fantastic conversation. 754 00:41:13,704 --> 00:41:16,844 Huge thanks again to Zohar for joining me today. 755 00:41:17,124 --> 00:41:22,034 Also, a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the eCommerce Cohort. 756 00:41:22,364 --> 00:41:23,914 Why not check them out at eCommerceCohort. 757 00:41:24,564 --> 00:41:24,864 com. 758 00:41:24,864 --> 00:41:27,004 Come join us in that monthly group. 759 00:41:27,034 --> 00:41:28,324 Be great to see you in there. 760 00:41:28,684 --> 00:41:31,544 Also, be sure to follow eCommerce Podcasts wherever you get your 761 00:41:31,564 --> 00:41:34,804 podcasts from because we've got yet more great scintillating and 762 00:41:34,804 --> 00:41:39,304 captivating conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss it. 763 00:41:39,394 --> 00:41:40,054 Any of them. 764 00:41:40,344 --> 00:41:43,154 And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. 765 00:41:43,164 --> 00:41:44,714 You are awesome. 766 00:41:44,764 --> 00:41:45,204 Yes, you are. 767 00:41:45,204 --> 00:41:46,084 Created awesome. 768 00:41:46,344 --> 00:41:48,904 It's just a burden you have to bear. 769 00:41:48,904 --> 00:41:50,024 Zohar has to bear it. 770 00:41:50,074 --> 00:41:50,794 I've got to bear it. 771 00:41:51,224 --> 00:41:52,284 You've got to bear it as well. 772 00:41:52,714 --> 00:41:56,504 Now the eCommerce podcast is produced by Podjunction. 773 00:41:56,514 --> 00:42:00,364 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 774 00:42:00,754 --> 00:42:03,084 The team that makes this show possible is. 775 00:42:03,144 --> 00:42:06,094 The beautiful and wonderful Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutsuliak. 776 00:42:06,474 --> 00:42:10,074 Our theme music was written by Josh Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you'd 777 00:42:10,074 --> 00:42:14,834 like to read the transcript or show notes, head over to the website eCommerce 778 00:42:14,834 --> 00:42:19,184 podcast.net, where coincidentally you can sign up to the newsletter 779 00:42:19,184 --> 00:42:20,294 that I talked about at the stock. 780 00:42:20,294 --> 00:42:20,924 Go ahead, do it. 781 00:42:20,954 --> 00:42:21,524 You'll be pleased. 782 00:42:22,064 --> 00:42:23,054 That's it from me. 783 00:42:23,054 --> 00:42:24,194 That's it from Zohar. 784 00:42:24,524 --> 00:42:26,324 Thank you so much for joining us. 785 00:42:26,354 --> 00:42:28,544 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 786 00:42:28,894 --> 00:42:29,734 I'll see you next time. 787 00:42:29,974 --> 00:42:30,244 Bye for.