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there's reasons why each of
those nine types do what they do.

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there's an inner core motivation.

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There's I think we need to be aware
of the fact that when we're in

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conflict, that core part of us, that
wound, that fear, that desire, that's

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what usually is getting pressed
on . That's what's being touched on,

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and that's what we're responding to.

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So knowing that each enneagram
type has a different motivation, a

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different fear, different desires.

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Super helpful for navigating
conflict because we're trying

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to get to a different place.

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Friends, welcome back to Mending Divides.

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I'm Jer Swigart, and today we get to
lean into a conversation about two

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things that we bump up against every
single day, conflict and our own wiring.

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If you've been around here for a while,
you know that we don't treat conflict

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as something to be avoided, but as
the very place where relationships are

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tested, trust is built and peace is made.

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And yet how we naturally show up in
the heat of conflict often has as

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much to do with our personalities as
it does with the situation itself.

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That's why I'm thrilled to be joined by my
friend and Enneagram coach, Rob Yackley.

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Together we're gonna take four journeys
around the Enneagram types, not just

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so that we can better understand
ourselves, but so that we can learn

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how to take good care of each other
in the inevitability of conflict.

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We will explore what the Enneagram is
and how it sheds light on our default

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responses to tension, what it looks
like to bring our most integrated

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selves when things get hard, the
unique gifts and traps each type

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brings to conflict, and even some
practical ways to move from reactivity

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to resourcefulness in the moment.

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So whether You're Brand new to the
Enneagram or you've been digging into

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it for years, this conversation is gonna
give us handles for showing up more

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fully, more compassionately, and more
peaceably in every corner of our lives.

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Let's dive in.

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Rob, where I'd love to start honestly,
is with you personally as somebody

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who has worked with leaders and and
faith leaders, corporate leaders.

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But one of the things that you do so
well is you help leaders grow their

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imagination for what it means to
bring faith communities to life in

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unique ways, in unique neighborhoods,
in unique soils across the country.

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And in your experience of working
with leaders, myself included, I

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know that you found this tool called
the Enneagram to be really helpful.

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So can you just us a little bit
more about you and why you work

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with leaders the way that you do?

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And then when did the Enneagram
start to show up in your life as a

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tool that you found to be helpful?

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Yeah, I've been, I've been working
with communities for probably 40 years.

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All different kinds of communities,
intentional communities, missional

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communities, missions teams, neighborhood
communities work with some corporations

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and use a ton of tools over these
years to help people grow in their

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self-awareness, their own personal
development their awareness of the world,

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what's going on around them, how to see
the world, how to interact with the world.

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And I have not found a tool more
effective in 40 years than the Enneagram

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and have used it for most of that time.

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And I think what makes it so
effective, what makes it so

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helpful is it's a dynamic tool.

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a lot of personality tools,
and I've used a lot of them.

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they're a bit static.

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They show you what you're like,
you know, you are an extrovert,

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you are an introvert, you are,
you know, sensory, you're, you

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know, all those different tools.

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And the Enneagram also tells
you a bit who you are, but it

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also tells you how you're doing.

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are you growing?

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are you evolving?

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Are you stepping back?

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Are you falling back?

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Like, how are you doing?

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How are you growing?

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and then, it doesn't just
tell you how you're doing.

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It's not just about self-awareness,
but it's also about other awareness.

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I think that's something
I really appreciate.

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that's why I use it so much in team
building and community building

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is 'cause man, this will help you
understand the people around you.

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What motivates them, what animates them,
what trips them up, how do you interact

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with them, you know, when they're
speaking, what are you hearing when

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you're speaking, what are they hearing?

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it's a great way to understand each other.

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And I honestly, I, I don't
know that a day goes by.

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Coaching, leading communities, workshops,
leading leaders that I'm not processing

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through the filter of the Enneagram.

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oh, okay, this probably, this person's
probably a four and they're with

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this bent and so super helpful tool.

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I agree.

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And I, you're the one who introduced me to
it, and, you know, it was brand new to me.

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I didn't know that it's an old tool.

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It's something that's been around for a
long time that seems to have been gaining

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some momentum recently, I think, for the
reasons that, that you just mentioned.

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I mean, I've been pretty fluent
in like the Myers-Briggs and like

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Mm-hmm.

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Yep.

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I

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Yep.

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those tools.

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I do too.

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Yeah, because they highlight
some realities and they help me

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understand yeah, like myself and a

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Yeah.

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of the why and a little bit of the
how, but it's the Enneagram for me

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that really began to expose both
the beauty and the shadow sides.

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Yeah.

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what you said, it forces us
or maybe invites us to ask

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the question, how am I doing?

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Mm-hmm.

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And how am I doing specifically
in relationship to other people?

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Yeah.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so in, you know, now for about
a decade, we've been using this

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tool throughout Global Immersion.

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And it's not just a leadership tool,

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Yeah,

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for all of us to sort out how to
show up and how to be in relationship

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with other, with other folk.

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with other

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Of course, as it relates to this
conversation because, you know,

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mending divides is a conversation
about conflict and our conviction

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is that conflict is inevitable.

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And so it suits us all to figure
out how to navigate conflict well.

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Leverage it as an opportunity
for transformation.

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One of the challenges that we've
run into as an organization is

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the idea that there really is no
universal way to navigate conflict.

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I think there are some universal
tools that are really helpful and

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like curiosity, as an example,

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really

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Yeah,

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helpful tool, belly breathing,
really helpful tool in terms

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of navigating conflict.

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But what we're finding is that
different folk are oriented

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toward conflict differently and

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yeah,

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and their impulse toward conflict while
shaped by upbringing and culture is also

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shaped by some kind of interior wiring.

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That's for sure.

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And so the deeper that we go into
this work, the more I'm like, I wanna

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have a conversation with you about the
intersection of Enneagram and conflict.

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bet there's some ways in which
these nine types interact with it.

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So Rob, for those of us who are newer
to the Enneagram what is it and how

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can it help us understand the ways
we naturally show up in conflict?

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it's a window into our personality.

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It's a window into our soul.

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It's a window into our motivation.

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And I think one of the important things
to understand about the Enneagram is

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it gets typecast as a personality tool.

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this is who you are and your, this
is your collection of behaviors

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and that defines who you are.

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And yeah, there are nine
types of personalities.

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There's the type one, the reformer,
the person who wants things to be

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right and wants to fix the world.

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There's the type two, the helper or the
giver that just wants to help people and

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come along people and improve their lives.

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There's the three, the achiever,
the performer that creates

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and speaks and produces.

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And then there's the four, the romantic,
that's artistic and introspective

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and cultivates an inner beauty.

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There's the five, the investigator
that's just taking information and

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synthesizing is trying to understand
the world and, and then there's the

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six, the loyalist or the team player.

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The person that just wants to be
a part of something and belong

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to something and contribute to
something and hold things together.

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There's the seven like me.

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It's the adventurer, the explorer,
the let's take new ground.

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Let's explore, let's see what's out there.

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Let's have fun.

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let's bring some something to life.

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There's the eight.

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Like you you know, the challenger
sometimes called the boss, the one

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who like wants to take ground and
wants to build something and wants

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to make the world a better place.

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And then there's the nine, the
peacemaker or the reconciler.

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the person that gets in that space between
people and listens and mediates and

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creates an atmosphere for reconciliation.

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So that's really in a nutshell,
those are the nine types.

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But I think and again, there's healthy
behaviors at each of those nine types.

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There's unhealthy behaviors,
there's growth, there's,

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you know, what are we doing?

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We're doing well, what do we look
like when we're not doing well?

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But I think really key, especially
as it relates to conflict, I

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think is understanding that it's,
again, it's not just a personality

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tool, it's a motivational tool.

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there's reasons why each of
those nine types do what they do.

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there's an inner core motivation.

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There's a desire that's propelling
them to those kinds of behaviors.

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and there's a corresponding fear.

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there's kind of initial wound in our lives
that created this fear and we're working

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through that fear and we're trying to
turn that fear into something healthy

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and frame it around a virtuous desire.

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But as it relates to conflict , I think
we need to be aware of the fact that

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when we're in conflict, that core part
of us, that wound, that, that fear, that

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desire, that's what usually is getting
pressed on . That's what's being touched

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on, and that's what we're responding to.

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Hmm.

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So knowing that each enneagram
type has a different motivation, a

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different fear, different desires.

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Super helpful for navigating
conflict because we're trying

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to get to a different place.

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Yeah.

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I was just in a conversation
yesterday with a couple of friends

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about interpersonal conflict and
wh when do I find myself triggered?

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And when I find myself triggered,
it's usually connected to, what feels

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like an accusation toward inadequacy
or failure, or I'm not good enough.

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Mm-hmm.

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you know, and rarely is a person
saying that, but it's amazing to

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me how that I have this big radar
for being perceived as inadequate

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Mm-hmm.

203
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Mm-hmm.

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good enough.

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And when that happens, I find
myself triggered and ready

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to move toward conflict,

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Yeah.

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Yeah,

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of what you're talking about?

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it is.

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and the reality is so there
is, there's conflict, right?

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There's an issue out there.

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There's this is good, this
is bad, or this is trouble.

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This needs to be leaned into,
we need to find a way forward.

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But when we're triggered, we're not really
dealing with the conflict initially.

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Right.

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00:10:55,634 --> 00:10:59,894
with that sense of inadequacy, or I'm not
feeling loved, or I'm not seeing, or I

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feel insecure, or this feels dangerous.

219
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And so it's that emotional
response below the conflict that

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we're initially responding to.

221
00:11:09,329 --> 00:11:10,289
Mm-hmm.

222
00:11:10,529 --> 00:11:10,539
Mm-hmm.

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So real quick, just for those
who are a little bit newer to the

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Enneagram, here are like the core
desires for each of those nine types.

225
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So for that one, that reformer,
that activist, I mean, they have

226
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the desire deep down to be good.

227
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they want to be good.

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So their behavior, their
response to conflict is like,

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what would goodness look like?

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'cause I want to be good and
my fear is that I'm not good

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.
My fear is that I'm somehow
corrupted, that I'm a little less

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than, and maybe that'll be exposed.

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and so they enter into conflict
with I want to be good.

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I want to fix this, and
I don't want to be bad.

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And so that's my, some of that deep
motivation, entering the conflict

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00:11:49,239 --> 00:11:49,529
Yeah.

237
00:11:49,694 --> 00:11:55,154
for the two, that helper giver type person
that's, you know, generous and always

238
00:11:55,154 --> 00:11:56,954
present and always lending a helping hand.

239
00:11:56,954 --> 00:11:58,904
Well, they wanna be loved,
you know what I mean?

240
00:11:58,904 --> 00:12:03,504
They just, they wanna be unconditionally
loved, not just loved for the things

241
00:12:03,504 --> 00:12:07,893
they do for you, but love for who they
are and they fear not being loved . So

242
00:12:08,906 --> 00:12:12,026
they're gonna enter conflict with this
with love, kind of on the surface.

243
00:12:12,026 --> 00:12:16,016
Like, how does this affect me
being loved me, you know, being

244
00:12:16,016 --> 00:12:19,086
welcomed which is different than
me being right in that first one.

245
00:12:19,086 --> 00:12:20,106
It's like me being good.

246
00:12:20,106 --> 00:12:23,596
It's like me being loved for the
Enneagram three, that achiever, that

247
00:12:23,596 --> 00:12:25,756
performer, well, they wanna be valued.

248
00:12:25,816 --> 00:12:26,656
do you value me?

249
00:12:26,711 --> 00:12:27,671
do you see my worth?

250
00:12:27,671 --> 00:12:33,241
And not just I'm valued because I created
something wonderful, or, you know, I spoke

251
00:12:33,241 --> 00:12:37,921
well, or I preached an amazing sermon,
but I'm valued for who I am as a person.

252
00:12:38,791 --> 00:12:41,461
So they're gonna enter conflict
with value as a kind of a

253
00:12:41,461 --> 00:12:44,581
primary kinda umbrella dynamic.

254
00:12:44,831 --> 00:12:45,251
Mm-hmm.

255
00:12:46,276 --> 00:12:51,236
The Enneagram four, that romantic
artistic type person, their deepest

256
00:12:51,236 --> 00:12:55,936
desire is to be their truest
self, to be unique, to be oneself.

257
00:12:55,966 --> 00:12:59,026
You know, one out of 8 billion
people that's, you know, seen as

258
00:12:59,026 --> 00:13:01,066
that one out, one out 8 billion.

259
00:13:01,126 --> 00:13:03,406
Which is why a lot of fours
don't like the Enneagram.

260
00:13:03,436 --> 00:13:04,726
'cause it puts them in a category.

261
00:13:04,966 --> 00:13:06,226
They don't wanna be in a category.

262
00:13:06,346 --> 00:13:06,676
Right.

263
00:13:06,796 --> 00:13:09,706
And the worst thing for a four
is like not having an identity,

264
00:13:09,706 --> 00:13:10,996
just being one of the crowd.

265
00:13:11,116 --> 00:13:17,317
And so they're gonna enter conflict
with that era of uniqueness . Five

266
00:13:17,317 --> 00:13:22,327
competency, the five that investigator,
analyst type person, they wanna

267
00:13:22,327 --> 00:13:25,627
make sure they've got all the
information, that they're competent,

268
00:13:25,727 --> 00:13:27,827
that they're capable of achieving.

269
00:13:28,067 --> 00:13:32,746
And their worst fear is like not being
capable , not having the information

270
00:13:32,746 --> 00:13:36,046
they need to make a good decision
and not being exposed in the midst of

271
00:13:36,366 --> 00:13:36,586
Mm.

272
00:13:36,646 --> 00:13:38,116
the interaction with another person.

273
00:13:39,046 --> 00:13:41,976
The six that loyalist team
player kind of person.

274
00:13:42,546 --> 00:13:46,261
Their deep desire is to be secure,
you know, to be with people,

275
00:13:46,301 --> 00:13:49,261
not to be cut off, to be without
support, which is their fear.

276
00:13:49,261 --> 00:13:51,906
I, I'm alone, I'm cut
off some from support.

277
00:13:52,326 --> 00:13:55,956
They wanna be part of something that
feels right, feels consistent with

278
00:13:55,956 --> 00:13:57,366
who they are and that they belong.

279
00:13:57,831 --> 00:13:58,311
Mm-hmm.

280
00:13:58,446 --> 00:14:02,361
the seven, they, that
adventurer explorer type person.

281
00:14:02,901 --> 00:14:04,071
Well, they kind of wanna be happy.

282
00:14:04,161 --> 00:14:05,416
I mean, I want, I wanna be happy.

283
00:14:05,421 --> 00:14:06,616
I, I wanna enjoy life.

284
00:14:06,616 --> 00:14:09,796
I want life to be full and rich
and full of great experiences.

285
00:14:10,436 --> 00:14:14,606
And my greatest fear is I don't
want to get trapped in messiness

286
00:14:14,606 --> 00:14:18,746
and ugliness and pain, and I don't
wanna lose out on opportunities

287
00:14:18,746 --> 00:14:21,296
because I feel denied or trapped.

288
00:14:21,956 --> 00:14:26,586
For the eights that, that challenger boss,
big personality person, like you, Jer,

289
00:14:27,006 --> 00:14:31,186
one of the core motivations for
an aid is actually to protect, to

290
00:14:31,186 --> 00:14:34,726
protect the people they care about,
to protect the things that God has

291
00:14:34,726 --> 00:14:39,556
been building, to protect justice, to
protect people, to protect nations.

292
00:14:39,556 --> 00:14:42,676
And which is why you get
involved in heroic, you know,

293
00:14:42,856 --> 00:14:44,956
incredibly important tasks.

294
00:14:45,046 --> 00:14:46,086
'cause you want to protect.

295
00:14:46,086 --> 00:14:48,516
And your greatest fear is you
don't wanna be controlled.

296
00:14:49,326 --> 00:14:53,016
You don't want other people to rein you
in, control you or manipulate you, right?

297
00:14:53,546 --> 00:14:54,206
And then finally,

298
00:14:54,401 --> 00:14:56,081
I hate being micromanaged.

299
00:14:56,246 --> 00:14:57,376
yeah, yeah, yeah.

300
00:14:57,876 --> 00:15:01,086
And then that last person, that
peacemaker that the reconciler

301
00:15:01,086 --> 00:15:02,836
person, they want to be at peace.

302
00:15:03,031 --> 00:15:03,181
Mm-hmm.

303
00:15:03,556 --> 00:15:05,116
That's their deepest motivation.

304
00:15:05,146 --> 00:15:06,916
I want to be at peace internally.

305
00:15:07,676 --> 00:15:08,506
And externally.

306
00:15:08,506 --> 00:15:09,616
I want, I wanna be at peace.

307
00:15:09,616 --> 00:15:11,146
I want the world to be at peace.

308
00:15:11,806 --> 00:15:14,566
And their greatest fear is being
disconnected from everything,

309
00:15:14,566 --> 00:15:18,716
just being alone, unseen,
not part of not contributing.

310
00:15:19,346 --> 00:15:23,106
So, so those are some of those
fears and motivations that we

311
00:15:23,106 --> 00:15:25,236
bring to the table in conflict.

312
00:15:25,686 --> 00:15:29,376
And at a subconscious level,
if not a conscious level, we're

313
00:15:29,376 --> 00:15:31,566
processing in the midst of conflict.

314
00:15:31,896 --> 00:15:35,096
And is it, we're being triggered,
we're being challenged.

315
00:15:35,366 --> 00:15:35,636
Yeah.

316
00:15:35,996 --> 00:15:36,836
I'll pause there.

317
00:15:36,981 --> 00:15:39,971
I feel like for those of us
listening in now would be the

318
00:15:39,971 --> 00:15:41,591
moment you just press pause

319
00:15:41,691 --> 00:15:41,981
Yeah.

320
00:15:42,221 --> 00:15:43,631
scroll back about

321
00:15:44,311 --> 00:15:44,601
Yeah.

322
00:15:44,621 --> 00:15:46,361
minutes and listen to that

323
00:15:46,751 --> 00:15:47,041
Yeah.

324
00:15:47,051 --> 00:15:51,201
And for those of you who are
familiar with the Enneagram no

325
00:15:51,201 --> 00:15:52,551
doubt deepens your understanding.

326
00:15:52,551 --> 00:15:56,761
For those of us who are less familiar,
that what just happened there might help

327
00:15:56,761 --> 00:16:00,451
you understand something about yourself
that you didn't know before and could

328
00:16:00,451 --> 00:16:05,401
help you maybe even move in the direction
of this tool that was remarkable.

329
00:16:05,431 --> 00:16:05,791
Rob.

330
00:16:05,791 --> 00:16:06,541
Now I'm,

331
00:16:07,051 --> 00:16:07,271
Mm.

332
00:16:07,351 --> 00:16:13,181
recognizing with nine different ways
you know, generally speaking, nine

333
00:16:13,181 --> 00:16:16,106
different ways motivations and fears.

334
00:16:16,686 --> 00:16:19,396
That helps me understand why
conflict is so complicated.

335
00:16:19,436 --> 00:16:19,856
Mm-hmm.

336
00:16:20,176 --> 00:16:21,196
Interpersonally.

337
00:16:21,196 --> 00:16:24,736
You even started by saying, oftentimes
when we're triggered, we're not dealing

338
00:16:24,736 --> 00:16:29,866
with the actual conflict, we're actually
dealing with the motivations and fears.

339
00:16:29,916 --> 00:16:30,206
Yeah.

340
00:16:30,266 --> 00:16:30,686
Mm-hmm.

341
00:16:30,916 --> 00:16:37,016
How do we become more aware of
our own motivation and fear?

342
00:16:37,016 --> 00:16:41,646
And what value do you think
that brings when we're dealing

343
00:16:41,696 --> 00:16:42,746
with another human being,

344
00:16:42,946 --> 00:16:43,686
Mm. Mm-hmm.

345
00:16:43,826 --> 00:16:45,896
as conflict is beginning to emerge?

346
00:16:46,076 --> 00:16:48,236
Yeah, great question.

347
00:16:49,636 --> 00:16:53,136
Maybe one imagery that I find helpful
for kind of understanding what's going

348
00:16:53,136 --> 00:16:56,366
on at that deep level, especially in
interaction with others, is to kind of

349
00:16:56,366 --> 00:17:01,466
think of it like each of those nine types
we're all on a journey and what comes

350
00:17:01,466 --> 00:17:06,686
into play in conflict is when our journey
gets like hijacked or blocked or denied,

351
00:17:06,956 --> 00:17:09,776
and that's when it really gets messy.

352
00:17:10,316 --> 00:17:14,506
But yeah, we're each on this journey
and really that journey has two parts.

353
00:17:14,906 --> 00:17:20,676
When we were born, we
had this innate truth.

354
00:17:21,726 --> 00:17:25,686
The assumption that we
would be provided for.

355
00:17:25,686 --> 00:17:26,586
We'd be cared for.

356
00:17:26,646 --> 00:17:29,986
There'd be some human being out
there, our mother initially, but

357
00:17:29,986 --> 00:17:33,436
there would be some human being that
would like, protect us and care for

358
00:17:33,436 --> 00:17:35,506
us and feed us and change our diapers.

359
00:17:35,953 --> 00:17:39,613
we would be safe, cared for and then
that we would be unconditionally

360
00:17:39,663 --> 00:17:40,053
loved.

361
00:17:41,153 --> 00:17:45,923
Those are the two realities that every
of the 8 billion people in the world, we

362
00:17:45,923 --> 00:17:51,623
all were born with this expectation to
be cared for and loved unconditionally.

363
00:17:52,253 --> 00:17:56,043
Real early on in life, we
learned the hard way that's

364
00:17:56,253 --> 00:17:57,333
doesn't always work out that way.

365
00:17:57,333 --> 00:17:58,833
In fact, it never works out that way.

366
00:17:59,343 --> 00:18:03,573
It's like, actually my behavior
changes people's response to me.

367
00:18:03,698 --> 00:18:04,118
Mm-hmm.

368
00:18:04,383 --> 00:18:09,603
I scream and throw fits and do things
like people respond differently and it

369
00:18:09,693 --> 00:18:11,643
doesn't feel like unconditional anymore.

370
00:18:11,643 --> 00:18:15,558
And maybe I even feel a bit
looked away from him or neglected.

371
00:18:16,038 --> 00:18:18,948
So anyway, that, that dynamic,
which is again, called that

372
00:18:18,948 --> 00:18:22,948
original wound something happens
in us that's like breaks.

373
00:18:23,128 --> 00:18:27,628
It's huh, that sure thing of being
loved and taken care of is not so sure.

374
00:18:27,703 --> 00:18:28,033
Yeah.

375
00:18:28,258 --> 00:18:34,078
So what I need to do is I need to put
on my game face, I need to develop a

376
00:18:34,078 --> 00:18:35,908
persona that makes sure I get that.

377
00:18:35,938 --> 00:18:40,228
'cause I just learned at age three or
four or whatever, that's not a sure

378
00:18:40,228 --> 00:18:42,343
thing, but I can go back and get that.

379
00:18:42,343 --> 00:18:47,063
So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna
develop this personality that gets that

380
00:18:47,063 --> 00:18:48,893
care and gets that unconditional love.

381
00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:51,023
Is that bad?

382
00:18:51,323 --> 00:18:52,073
It just is.

383
00:18:52,253 --> 00:18:54,533
You know, it's, you know,
it's just, it's life.

384
00:18:54,563 --> 00:18:55,823
it's just, it's a dynamic.

385
00:18:55,823 --> 00:19:00,533
So that's like sometimes called the
first task of life is like developing the

386
00:19:00,533 --> 00:19:03,143
personality that gets you what got lost.

387
00:19:03,218 --> 00:19:09,368
What's amazing to me is like the most
fundamental decisions that shape so

388
00:19:09,368 --> 00:19:12,998
much of the rest of our lives and the
way that we understand it happened

389
00:19:12,998 --> 00:19:14,768
when we were like two and a half,

390
00:19:15,113 --> 00:19:15,383
Yeah.

391
00:19:15,433 --> 00:19:15,653
it,

392
00:19:15,933 --> 00:19:17,433
we made these decisions

393
00:19:18,378 --> 00:19:18,678
Yeah,

394
00:19:18,783 --> 00:19:21,513
we even had the ability to
think carefully about them.

395
00:19:21,608 --> 00:19:21,818
yeah.

396
00:19:21,818 --> 00:19:23,378
it's buried so deep.

397
00:19:23,468 --> 00:19:25,308
And yeah, and I'm not a psychologist.

398
00:19:25,308 --> 00:19:29,118
I won't dive deep into the wounds,
but we did, we know, we all know that

399
00:19:29,118 --> 00:19:34,518
something broke and now I'm trying to earn
that thing that I thought was a given.

400
00:19:35,058 --> 00:19:36,828
And so, so that's not bad.

401
00:19:36,828 --> 00:19:39,588
It's just the first task of life,
you know, figuring that out.

402
00:19:39,998 --> 00:19:44,698
Where it gets bad is when it doesn't
evolve and that kind, our strategy becomes

403
00:19:44,698 --> 00:19:46,768
a caricature, it becomes an exaggeration.

404
00:19:46,768 --> 00:19:51,358
And we can all think of like drawings or
paintings of caricatures of people, right.

405
00:19:51,358 --> 00:19:55,788
And they look obnoxious and kind of
gross and out of proportion, and.

406
00:19:56,458 --> 00:19:58,078
and that's what our
life starts to look at.

407
00:19:58,178 --> 00:20:01,628
if we just stick with this,
I'm gonna create a personality

408
00:20:02,078 --> 00:20:03,188
that gets me what I want.

409
00:20:03,563 --> 00:20:04,043
Hmm.

410
00:20:04,913 --> 00:20:05,183
Hmm,

411
00:20:05,318 --> 00:20:08,678
Healthy people come to a point where
they realize that's not gonna work.

412
00:20:09,163 --> 00:20:10,513
I've become a caricature.

413
00:20:10,553 --> 00:20:11,723
I've become embarrassing.

414
00:20:11,873 --> 00:20:14,603
I've becoming something that's
unhelpful for society, for my

415
00:20:14,603 --> 00:20:16,403
family, for my spouse, for my kids.

416
00:20:17,153 --> 00:20:20,393
And so they turn to the second
task in life, which is becoming

417
00:20:20,393 --> 00:20:22,043
the person they were created to be.

418
00:20:22,643 --> 00:20:26,303
So, first task, becoming the person
that'll get what was broken or lost.

419
00:20:26,303 --> 00:20:26,933
Second task.

420
00:20:26,933 --> 00:20:30,305
Now I'm gonna become who I
am , who I'm really meant to be.

421
00:20:30,635 --> 00:20:32,165
So that's what I call that journey home.

422
00:20:32,165 --> 00:20:34,825
So that second part is okay,
we're all on this journey home.

423
00:20:35,005 --> 00:20:36,595
I'm trying to become this person.

424
00:20:37,105 --> 00:20:40,525
And in the midst of conflict, sometimes
we feel like, wow, that got blocked.

425
00:20:41,365 --> 00:20:44,035
I'm trying to get home
and you got in my way,

426
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:44,720
Hmm.

427
00:20:44,845 --> 00:20:49,225
and that's what I'm
responding to, so, yeah.

428
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:50,920
Oh, that's really insightful.

429
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,500
I love the first task,
second task, you know?

430
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:58,930
And you know, I find that in my work I
spend a lot of time with people who are

431
00:20:58,930 --> 00:21:01,840
really making significant decisions,

432
00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:02,480
Mm-hmm.

433
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,450
around that second task.

434
00:21:04,825 --> 00:21:05,095
Yeah.

435
00:21:05,470 --> 00:21:10,230
and I feel like we live in a
moment in time where significant

436
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:15,460
leadership is being exercised by
people who are still stuck achieving

437
00:21:15,775 --> 00:21:16,075
Yeah.

438
00:21:16,090 --> 00:21:19,590
which they didn't get when
they were when they were young.

439
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:26,640
this journey home, this journey of
evolving, doesn't happen accidentally.

440
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:27,050
Yeah.

441
00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:31,050
And I wonder, you know,
how has the Enneagram.

442
00:21:31,545 --> 00:21:31,845
Yeah.

443
00:21:31,845 --> 00:21:34,605
How has it informed your journey home?

444
00:21:34,705 --> 00:21:34,945
I,

445
00:21:35,050 --> 00:21:35,470
mm-hmm.

446
00:21:35,605 --> 00:21:39,415
feel as I've even observed you and as
you've invited me into this journey in

447
00:21:39,415 --> 00:21:44,335
different ways, that the tool itself
has actually created some guardrails

448
00:21:44,335 --> 00:21:47,795
for me around who I am becoming

449
00:21:48,035 --> 00:21:49,025
Mm-hmm.

450
00:21:49,055 --> 00:21:51,665
understand what that journey looks
like and how the Enneagram can help us.

451
00:21:52,175 --> 00:21:52,535
Yeah.

452
00:21:54,035 --> 00:21:57,125
Enneagram is sometimes called
the Nine Faces of the Soul.

453
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:58,050
and I like that.

454
00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:02,080
'cause it's kind of nine perspectives,
or nine angles, or nine reflections

455
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,080
of what I believe is a divine image.

456
00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:10,300
And we see humanity in its most
glorious beauty and fullness.

457
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:12,850
When we see all nine faces of the soul.

458
00:22:13,810 --> 00:22:17,860
In Enneagram language, they call
those the virtues, the virtues that

459
00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:21,370
each Enneagram type brings to the
table, that brings to the world.

460
00:22:21,370 --> 00:22:25,450
And when those nine virtues are all
like shining and working in unison and

461
00:22:25,450 --> 00:22:29,070
working together, it's like, wow, this
is what it's supposed to look like.

462
00:22:29,070 --> 00:22:30,630
This is what people are
supposed to be like.

463
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:32,460
This is what humanity is
supposed to look like.

464
00:22:33,210 --> 00:22:35,130
So that becomes a really helpful idea.

465
00:22:35,130 --> 00:22:37,560
Like for each type, it's
like, so what is my virtue?

466
00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:38,370
yeah.

467
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,490
what is the thing that I can
bring into this world that like,

468
00:22:41,910 --> 00:22:44,140
that shines that's remarkable.

469
00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:46,390
That's healing, that's inspiring.

470
00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:47,720
and they're not the same.

471
00:22:47,780 --> 00:22:50,810
I mean, each of the nine types has a
different virtue that they bringing

472
00:22:50,810 --> 00:22:53,030
into the world in an interesting way.

473
00:22:53,030 --> 00:22:56,740
it's a virtue that you only arrive
at by working through your vice.

474
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,870
It's almost like our virtue is like after
we work through our darkest stuff called

475
00:23:01,870 --> 00:23:08,530
our vice, and we grow through that and we
become healthy, integrated individuals,

476
00:23:08,775 --> 00:23:09,085
Yeah.

477
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,690
then we see this virtue.

478
00:23:10,810 --> 00:23:11,260
So

479
00:23:11,725 --> 00:23:12,445
Oh, let's go.

480
00:23:12,475 --> 00:23:12,865
Let's go.

481
00:23:12,910 --> 00:23:13,150
do it, do

482
00:23:13,285 --> 00:23:14,065
and virtues, then

483
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:14,620
should we do it?

484
00:23:14,650 --> 00:23:15,160
Okay.

485
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:19,245
So, so for the Enneagram one and
that reformer that let's make

486
00:23:19,245 --> 00:23:20,595
the world a better place person.

487
00:23:21,225 --> 00:23:23,025
Their virtue is serenity.

488
00:23:23,665 --> 00:23:23,885
Huh?

489
00:23:23,925 --> 00:23:24,585
Serenity.

490
00:23:24,585 --> 00:23:25,955
Like they're at home now.

491
00:23:25,955 --> 00:23:29,125
Their vice is anger because
they see how broken things are.

492
00:23:29,125 --> 00:23:30,595
They see the, a messed up world.

493
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,540
they get mad at people, understandably.

494
00:23:33,770 --> 00:23:34,190
Mm-hmm.

495
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:36,240
they see what's happening
in the Middle East.

496
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,410
They see what's happening in Ukraine.

497
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:40,680
They see what's happening in our own
country and they, it makes them mad.

498
00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:42,200
And they, and they can get caught.

499
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:42,970
they can get stuck.

500
00:23:42,970 --> 00:23:44,320
We can get stuck in our vices.

501
00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:44,700
Yeah.

502
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:47,470
But if we can acknowledge that, we
can, that's really the first step.

503
00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:52,420
I acknowledge my anger, I see my
anger, and we work through our

504
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:55,720
anger, which is a whole nother
conversation, all the growth processes.

505
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:55,960
But

506
00:23:56,105 --> 00:23:56,525
Mm-hmm.

507
00:23:56,980 --> 00:24:03,460
if I can work through my anger and get
to the place where I am serene, where

508
00:24:03,460 --> 00:24:06,160
I'm at peace in a world that's ugly

509
00:24:06,340 --> 00:24:06,640
Yeah.

510
00:24:07,030 --> 00:24:10,590
and the world sees wow, there's
that reformer activist person who

511
00:24:10,590 --> 00:24:14,250
can get pissed off really easy
and get really worked up easy.

512
00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:17,790
But right now, man, they are serene.

513
00:24:17,910 --> 00:24:19,560
And that is, whew.

514
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,880
That's gorgeous, right?

515
00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:21,150
that's,

516
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:23,130
contagious and deeply influential.

517
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:24,270
yeah, exactly.

518
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:24,780
And.

519
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:29,700
So then there's the two that, that
helper, that giver, that generous,

520
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,170
always lending a helping hand.

521
00:24:31,770 --> 00:24:35,670
Well, their vice is pride,
which is like pride, huh?

522
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:36,720
They're just the helper.

523
00:24:36,730 --> 00:24:38,380
they're the, you know, good teammate.

524
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:42,550
Well, it's pride because they know how
much they help, you know, they know all

525
00:24:42,550 --> 00:24:46,240
the good things they do, and that can, you
know, on a bad day seep into their head.

526
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,870
and it can also lead them
like to do things to be loved.

527
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,805
I'll help you because
really, I wanna be loved.

528
00:24:51,805 --> 00:24:54,055
I mean, that's my deep motivation
we talked about earlier.

529
00:24:54,715 --> 00:24:58,315
So they can get into a people pleasing
mode, but when they break free of

530
00:24:58,315 --> 00:25:00,775
that, I'm not doing this to please you.

531
00:25:01,245 --> 00:25:02,895
I don't feel like I have to earn love.

532
00:25:02,895 --> 00:25:05,655
I just, I feel loved.

533
00:25:06,375 --> 00:25:09,345
I feel like I'm loved and
I'm labeled the love back.

534
00:25:09,345 --> 00:25:10,965
And they bring unconditional love.

535
00:25:11,045 --> 00:25:11,735
that's their virtue.

536
00:25:12,155 --> 00:25:13,415
Unconditional love.

537
00:25:13,845 --> 00:25:15,345
no more earning, just.

538
00:25:15,405 --> 00:25:15,465
I'm

539
00:25:15,735 --> 00:25:16,155
Mm-hmm.

540
00:25:16,605 --> 00:25:19,155
and I feel loved, and we
see that it's inspiring.

541
00:25:20,595 --> 00:25:22,680
I'm gonna keep going, but
you can jump in at any time.

542
00:25:22,725 --> 00:25:23,565
I'm loving this.

543
00:25:23,565 --> 00:25:24,015
Yeah.

544
00:25:24,150 --> 00:25:24,540
Okay.

545
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:27,955
Then there's the three, that
performer you know, the person

546
00:25:27,955 --> 00:25:29,815
who gets just a ton of stuff done.

547
00:25:30,245 --> 00:25:34,605
The achiever, the type three the gift
that they bring, the virtue that they

548
00:25:34,605 --> 00:25:36,255
bring into the world's authenticity.

549
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:36,770
Mm-hmm.

550
00:25:37,215 --> 00:25:38,775
Now, the dark side is deceit.

551
00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:39,280
Mm-hmm.

552
00:25:39,345 --> 00:25:43,035
can just imagine someone who's used
to achieving, used to accomplishing

553
00:25:43,035 --> 00:25:44,385
things, used to being upfront.

554
00:25:45,315 --> 00:25:48,855
It's easy for them to kind of
spin life and experiences in

555
00:25:48,855 --> 00:25:52,605
a way that hides failure, that
hides, you know, inadequacies.

556
00:25:52,605 --> 00:25:54,165
And so everything is like shiny.

557
00:25:54,290 --> 00:25:54,710
Mm-hmm.

558
00:25:54,765 --> 00:25:59,405
And so that can lead to a sense of
well, yeah, I'll make everything

559
00:25:59,405 --> 00:26:00,875
look good even when it's not good.

560
00:26:02,030 --> 00:26:06,020
When they can become honest
with themselves, honest with the

561
00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:09,590
world, and just stand before us
with a sense of authenticity, the

562
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:11,210
world goes, that's attractive.

563
00:26:11,435 --> 00:26:14,575
Yeah, that's fascinating because I, the,
one of the ways I describe it three is

564
00:26:14,575 --> 00:26:16,155
that they're experts at hiding in plain

565
00:26:16,585 --> 00:26:17,005
Mm-hmm.

566
00:26:17,355 --> 00:26:21,945
because they, because
of the eloquence of spin

567
00:26:22,255 --> 00:26:22,545
Yeah.

568
00:26:22,815 --> 00:26:29,325
when they are authentic the influence
that, that, it just invites the rest of us

569
00:26:29,395 --> 00:26:29,685
Yeah.

570
00:26:30,105 --> 00:26:30,435
to

571
00:26:30,845 --> 00:26:31,085
Absolutely.

572
00:26:31,335 --> 00:26:31,425
a

573
00:26:31,745 --> 00:26:31,965
Mm.

574
00:26:32,115 --> 00:26:36,615
their hair down and says, I can be
imperfectly, incomplete, and in process,

575
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:37,200
Mm-hmm

576
00:26:37,485 --> 00:26:38,745
of us can say, oh

577
00:26:39,090 --> 00:26:39,510
hmm.

578
00:26:39,585 --> 00:26:40,335
because so are we.

579
00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:41,130
Yeah.

580
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:41,580
yeah.

581
00:26:41,655 --> 00:26:42,975
just such a superpower.

582
00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:43,410
Yeah.

583
00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:45,390
That's a great insight too, Jer.

584
00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:46,950
'cause that's true of all these virtues.

585
00:26:47,835 --> 00:26:52,905
There's one, there's one type that kinda
radiates it in this surprising grace way.

586
00:26:53,115 --> 00:26:55,185
It almost has that wow,
I did not expect that,

587
00:26:55,545 --> 00:26:55,995
Hmm.

588
00:26:55,995 --> 00:26:57,915
doesn't mean the rest
of us can't be serene.

589
00:26:58,155 --> 00:27:01,315
Doesn't mean the rest of us can't
feel or experience unconditional love.

590
00:27:01,465 --> 00:27:01,795
right.

591
00:27:01,945 --> 00:27:05,455
means when that particular
person exhibits it, it has that,

592
00:27:05,455 --> 00:27:08,455
like, did not expect that and

593
00:27:08,665 --> 00:27:10,075
it has a transcendent

594
00:27:10,135 --> 00:27:10,495
yeah.

595
00:27:11,035 --> 00:27:11,215
I

596
00:27:11,365 --> 00:27:11,605
Yeah.

597
00:27:11,935 --> 00:27:13,975
when a two does unconditional love,

598
00:27:14,125 --> 00:27:14,785
Mm-hmm.

599
00:27:14,815 --> 00:27:15,205
Yeah.

600
00:27:15,295 --> 00:27:17,875
does serenity, it impacts
the entire community

601
00:27:18,010 --> 00:27:18,430
Mm-hmm.

602
00:27:18,715 --> 00:27:19,075
Yeah.

603
00:27:19,225 --> 00:27:19,525
Yeah.

604
00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:19,750
Hmm.

605
00:27:20,515 --> 00:27:26,555
For the four that artistic romantic
person their vice is envy because they

606
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:29,795
want to be unique, they wanna be special,
it's easy to look around all the other

607
00:27:29,795 --> 00:27:33,325
unique special people around them and oh
man, he's better at that than I am, and

608
00:27:33,355 --> 00:27:38,185
she's more artistic than I am, and that's
a way better website than my website.

609
00:27:38,185 --> 00:27:38,425
Yeah.

610
00:27:38,425 --> 00:27:38,620
they kind of.

611
00:27:38,965 --> 00:27:41,065
That, that vintage wardrobe is better than

612
00:27:41,305 --> 00:27:42,865
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

613
00:27:42,865 --> 00:27:45,205
their candles are better
than my candles and, yeah.

614
00:27:45,685 --> 00:27:50,305
But when they work through that
kind of comparing and envy and like

615
00:27:50,305 --> 00:27:55,255
fighting to, you know, to be unique
and they become their truest self.

616
00:27:55,405 --> 00:28:00,845
We see in the four, like this
transformation, this beauty evolving.

617
00:28:00,845 --> 00:28:02,675
And we see the growth in the four.

618
00:28:03,555 --> 00:28:06,805
we almost see the process of the growth
in the four where other types we see

619
00:28:06,805 --> 00:28:08,515
like the end product with the four.

620
00:28:08,515 --> 00:28:13,315
We, we watch this transformation
and it like that is inspiring.

621
00:28:13,315 --> 00:28:14,665
Now I want to be transformed.

622
00:28:14,755 --> 00:28:16,735
I, you know, I want to
grow, I want to be more,

623
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:17,140
Got

624
00:28:17,275 --> 00:28:18,655
more myself.

625
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:20,380
So their virtue is transformation.

626
00:28:20,395 --> 00:28:21,235
Transformation.

627
00:28:21,655 --> 00:28:21,895
Yeah.

628
00:28:21,895 --> 00:28:26,845
They, I mean, they show us what
the beauty of growth looks like.

629
00:28:27,465 --> 00:28:27,735
Yeah.

630
00:28:28,155 --> 00:28:28,455
Yeah.

631
00:28:29,365 --> 00:28:31,825
The five that investigator.

632
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,720
Figure out the world kind of person.

633
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:37,850
The gift , the virtue they
bring to the world is clarity.

634
00:28:38,510 --> 00:28:41,120
They just, they help
us see how things work.

635
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,010
They help us see how the universe works.

636
00:28:43,060 --> 00:28:46,510
They're like people that put together
the puzzles of life and they're

637
00:28:46,510 --> 00:28:49,110
just here's how this piece goes
and here's how this piece goes.

638
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,430
Now they can be a bit like, they can
almost hoard that knowledge because

639
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:54,750
they want to, they wanna be competent.

640
00:28:54,750 --> 00:28:56,940
They wanna be maybe the
smartest person in the room.

641
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:59,710
And so they, their vice
actually is avarice.

642
00:28:59,710 --> 00:29:02,470
So this kind of, I'm gonna keep
all the information to myself.

643
00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:05,560
I'm going to, because I want to
be the one to deliver the goods.

644
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,480
I wanna be the one that
presents the paper.

645
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,360
I don't wanna be the one that does the
research that gets the Nobel Prize so they

646
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,040
can kind of like hoard that information.

647
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,200
But when they, when they share it,

648
00:29:15,410 --> 00:29:16,010
Hmm.

649
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:17,090
generous with

650
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:17,900
Yeah.

651
00:29:18,140 --> 00:29:21,620
they've learned and they bring
clarity to the world, it's like, wow.

652
00:29:22,370 --> 00:29:22,820
Huh?

653
00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:23,420
stuff.

654
00:29:23,660 --> 00:29:24,200
Good stuff.

655
00:29:25,460 --> 00:29:27,040
the, where are we at the six?

656
00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:29,750
Yeah, that's, that team player,
that loyalist that again, that

657
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:32,810
person who doesn't wanna be without
support, that's, that, that fear

658
00:29:32,810 --> 00:29:34,580
they, that they wanna belong.

659
00:29:35,010 --> 00:29:36,300
They wanna be part of something.

660
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:40,930
the vice that the six
struggles with is fear.

661
00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:42,250
people might go away,

662
00:29:42,685 --> 00:29:43,105
Mm-hmm.

663
00:29:43,150 --> 00:29:46,180
lose community, I might lose my
team, I might lose my church.

664
00:29:46,510 --> 00:29:49,270
You know, I, it's that,
something could be taken away.

665
00:29:49,270 --> 00:29:51,340
Something could leave and I'll be alone.

666
00:29:51,575 --> 00:29:51,865
Yeah.

667
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,020
But when they work through that, when
they face that, they face those fears,

668
00:29:56,020 --> 00:29:59,670
they face those yeah, those things that,
that scare them and they rise above it.

669
00:29:59,670 --> 00:30:00,600
They bring courage.

670
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,340
And so their virtue is courage.

671
00:30:02,550 --> 00:30:06,195
So in a six, you know, a person
that you maybe wouldn't expect

672
00:30:06,195 --> 00:30:12,045
to be all that courageous, when
they're courageous, the rest of us

673
00:30:12,045 --> 00:30:13,635
feel like we can be courageous too.

674
00:30:13,685 --> 00:30:15,095
they did it, I can do it.

675
00:30:15,995 --> 00:30:20,165
The seven the adventurer explorer
type person you know, they can

676
00:30:20,165 --> 00:30:22,355
get in that pursuit of happiness.

677
00:30:22,355 --> 00:30:23,195
They can kind of.

678
00:30:24,515 --> 00:30:28,295
They could kind of be a little flighty
or, you know, kinda bounce around

679
00:30:28,295 --> 00:30:30,395
a little bit, shift directions.

680
00:30:30,825 --> 00:30:33,345
Happiness becomes very much
a product of the immediate

681
00:30:33,405 --> 00:30:34,785
experience, the immediate moment.

682
00:30:35,325 --> 00:30:36,525
Their vice is gluttony.

683
00:30:36,715 --> 00:30:39,825
and really, not necessarily of
food, but of, could be food,

684
00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:40,400
Mm-hmm.

685
00:30:40,455 --> 00:30:42,315
it just gluttony of experiences.

686
00:30:42,315 --> 00:30:44,445
I just want, just wanna
keep having experiences.

687
00:30:44,875 --> 00:30:48,885
and since my happiness is contingent
on the value or success of those

688
00:30:48,885 --> 00:30:52,315
experiences, but when they realize that
life is bigger than just experiences

689
00:30:52,885 --> 00:30:55,685
and happiness is not so fleeting.

690
00:30:55,685 --> 00:31:01,125
And they experience joy, that kind of
settled sense of contentment and like

691
00:31:01,125 --> 00:31:06,005
a deep sense of, I, I'm happy with me,
I'm happy with the world, the way I am.

692
00:31:06,455 --> 00:31:09,645
Not that it's perfect,
but I have joy in this.

693
00:31:10,305 --> 00:31:12,795
So I'm no longer running
off to the next thing.

694
00:31:12,795 --> 00:31:14,085
I'm okay right here.

695
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,820
and I think I, just to break in real
quick, Rob, again, thinking about

696
00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:23,340
the virtue sides of these as the
unique superpowers of these people,

697
00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:28,740
as I'm listening to you unfold,
I'm thinking about a person who

698
00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:33,060
identifies as a seven in this case,
and I'm like, yeah, that's right.

699
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:34,590
When they are content,

700
00:31:34,615 --> 00:31:35,035
Mm-hmm.

701
00:31:35,820 --> 00:31:39,120
it, it's, it settles the RPMs of all of

702
00:31:39,435 --> 00:31:39,855
Mm-hmm.

703
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,850
We are collectively, content.

704
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,440
Things might not be as they could be,

705
00:31:43,770 --> 00:31:44,100
Yeah.

706
00:31:44,250 --> 00:31:46,140
but we are collectively content

707
00:31:46,350 --> 00:31:46,920
Mm-hmm.

708
00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:47,430
Yeah.

709
00:31:47,430 --> 00:31:50,220
Mm-hmm.

710
00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:51,300
Yeah.

711
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,770
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

712
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,250
Let's move on to the eights.

713
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,840
I happen to know one.

714
00:31:58,530 --> 00:31:59,340
You're looking at one.

715
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:01,990
I love eights.

716
00:32:02,010 --> 00:32:04,160
I've, my whole life I've
been surrounded by eights.

717
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:07,330
Eights, you know, as you know, they kind
of get a bad rep 'cause they are like the

718
00:32:07,330 --> 00:32:08,770
boss and that challenger, and they're.

719
00:32:08,890 --> 00:32:09,910
can really bulldoze, you

720
00:32:10,045 --> 00:32:10,285
Bull.

721
00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:11,485
Those people knock the

722
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:11,950
healthy

723
00:32:12,085 --> 00:32:15,025
knock things down, you know,
all those eight things.

724
00:32:15,025 --> 00:32:19,305
But yeah, but they also get stuff done and
they fight for things that really matter.

725
00:32:19,305 --> 00:32:22,465
And the, the, the vice
of the eight is lust.

726
00:32:22,495 --> 00:32:27,045
Again, not necessarily sexual
lust, but just the lust for more

727
00:32:27,045 --> 00:32:30,975
control, the more power, lust
for more ground, for more growth.

728
00:32:30,975 --> 00:32:31,725
Just to,

729
00:32:32,065 --> 00:32:32,355
Yeah.

730
00:32:32,805 --> 00:32:33,435
I want more.

731
00:32:33,465 --> 00:32:33,975
I want more.

732
00:32:33,975 --> 00:32:34,845
We could be better.

733
00:32:34,905 --> 00:32:37,665
And I mean, you could see
how that's a good thing.

734
00:32:37,665 --> 00:32:40,125
Like we can be better, we
can take more, we can grow.

735
00:32:41,085 --> 00:32:46,215
Or it could be really just a
example of a corrupted kind of lust.

736
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:46,710
Yeah.

737
00:32:46,805 --> 00:32:48,395
The eights, I like that superpower.

738
00:32:48,395 --> 00:32:51,405
I'm gonna use that language you used,
use the superpower of the eight,

739
00:32:51,465 --> 00:32:54,045
the virtue of an eight is innocence.

740
00:32:55,005 --> 00:33:01,725
And again, it's when that strong, bold
person that's kind of used to like shaking

741
00:33:01,725 --> 00:33:06,515
things up and being like indomitable
and almost being bigger than life.

742
00:33:06,525 --> 00:33:09,105
when that eight says, you know, I'm human.

743
00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:10,320
Mm-hmm.

744
00:33:10,455 --> 00:33:12,315
I'm, I'm, I'm just a guy.

745
00:33:12,315 --> 00:33:14,625
I'm just a woman doing my best

746
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:15,600
Yeah.

747
00:33:15,825 --> 00:33:19,545
and I need to, you know, I
need to lay my head down too.

748
00:33:19,755 --> 00:33:21,675
And that vulnerability.

749
00:33:21,675 --> 00:33:25,175
When the A gets, when the A gets
vulnerable and we see that tender softer

750
00:33:25,175 --> 00:33:30,575
side of the eight, we see that innocence
inspires all of us to be more innocent,

751
00:33:30,845 --> 00:33:32,825
to be more vulnerable, to be more real.

752
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:33,530
Yeah.

753
00:33:34,235 --> 00:33:34,985
I resonate.

754
00:33:35,105 --> 00:33:36,755
That feels similar to the three,

755
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:37,520
Mm-hmm.

756
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:38,540
There are a lot of similarities.

757
00:33:39,095 --> 00:33:42,625
right 'cause an eight, like we
can hide in plain sight as well

758
00:33:42,625 --> 00:33:44,065
and we love to project strength.

759
00:33:44,065 --> 00:33:48,605
But like that my learning curve
over these years has been around

760
00:33:48,605 --> 00:33:56,345
vulnerability and how humanizing that
is and what a relief that is for others,

761
00:33:56,450 --> 00:33:57,200
Mm-hmm.

762
00:33:57,285 --> 00:34:01,335
that people don't need us to be perfect.

763
00:34:01,335 --> 00:34:02,475
They want us to be human,

764
00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:03,030
Yeah.

765
00:34:03,210 --> 00:34:03,870
Absolutely.

766
00:34:03,915 --> 00:34:06,255
And that's the transcendent impact right

767
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:06,810
Exactly.

768
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:07,170
Yep.

769
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:07,890
Yeah.

770
00:34:08,010 --> 00:34:08,550
So good.

771
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,700
And then finally, the nine, that
peacemaker, the mediator, the

772
00:34:12,700 --> 00:34:16,330
reconciler their vice is sloth.

773
00:34:16,990 --> 00:34:18,820
It doesn't, it's not, it
doesn't mean they're lazy.

774
00:34:18,820 --> 00:34:22,270
I mean, nines can be very productive
and they can actually be very busy.

775
00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:26,540
What it really means is they can be
slothful with bringing their presence.

776
00:34:26,990 --> 00:34:29,390
You know, they can be in the room
and they can be participating.

777
00:34:29,390 --> 00:34:32,490
They can be answering the questions and
they, you know, whatever, they seem like

778
00:34:32,490 --> 00:34:37,560
they're engaged, but they're not, their
deepest self is not really engaged.

779
00:34:38,205 --> 00:34:40,455
That they're more playing a role.

780
00:34:40,595 --> 00:34:43,085
they're helping other people connect.

781
00:34:43,085 --> 00:34:43,895
they're doing that.

782
00:34:43,895 --> 00:34:47,675
some people describe the nine as the
frame of a picture, you know, and where

783
00:34:47,675 --> 00:34:49,355
the other people are, like the artwork.

784
00:34:49,415 --> 00:34:52,265
Other people are the character and
they're just the frame, and they

785
00:34:52,265 --> 00:34:53,510
kind of disappear in the background.

786
00:34:54,035 --> 00:34:56,565
They're there, but they're, nobody's
looking at them, and they're not

787
00:34:56,565 --> 00:34:59,565
really bringing them their full
self, but when they do, they bring

788
00:34:59,565 --> 00:35:01,335
their virtue, which is presence.

789
00:35:01,485 --> 00:35:02,745
I'm here in the room.

790
00:35:03,105 --> 00:35:04,485
I'm not just here for you.

791
00:35:04,485 --> 00:35:06,315
I am here for you, but not just for you.

792
00:35:06,835 --> 00:35:08,155
I'm here for me too.

793
00:35:08,155 --> 00:35:09,355
I count,

794
00:35:09,465 --> 00:35:09,885
Mm-hmm.

795
00:35:09,955 --> 00:35:10,465
matter.

796
00:35:10,465 --> 00:35:11,725
My opinions matter.

797
00:35:11,875 --> 00:35:13,495
My needs matter as well.

798
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:14,110
Yeah.

799
00:35:14,125 --> 00:35:18,085
So that presence, so serenity,
unconditional love, authenticity,

800
00:35:18,295 --> 00:35:23,695
transformation, clarity, courage,
joy, innocence, and presence.

801
00:35:23,695 --> 00:35:25,435
Nine faces of the soul.

802
00:35:25,765 --> 00:35:28,675
When those nine virtues
are shining, we shine.

803
00:35:29,485 --> 00:35:29,905
yeah.

804
00:35:30,205 --> 00:35:33,870
it makes me wanna build a friend group
around, you know what I'm saying?

805
00:35:33,945 --> 00:35:35,525
Just I just wanna build
a friend group around the

806
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:35,840
Yeah.

807
00:35:35,915 --> 00:35:37,280
and out how to get better together.

808
00:35:37,365 --> 00:35:37,635
yeah.

809
00:35:37,795 --> 00:35:39,355
sound, but it does, to your point.

810
00:35:39,935 --> 00:35:42,695
and too, in a world where I think we,
we wanna keep surrounding ourselves

811
00:35:42,695 --> 00:35:46,655
with people who are just like us,
how desperately we need one another,

812
00:35:46,935 --> 00:35:47,355
Mm-hmm.

813
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,785
in in relationship.

814
00:35:48,785 --> 00:35:51,945
And I think in the movement the
mu movement toward justice in

815
00:35:51,945 --> 00:35:56,265
particular, I and friends, as you're
listening in, you can s there,

816
00:35:56,275 --> 00:35:59,935
there are books and books and books.

817
00:36:00,715 --> 00:36:01,105
all of this.

818
00:36:01,105 --> 00:36:03,685
The beauty of this, Rob, is
you've done the work over these

819
00:36:03,685 --> 00:36:05,965
years to distill this for us.

820
00:36:06,065 --> 00:36:09,755
And I want to get to conflict
even a little bit more in

821
00:36:09,765 --> 00:36:11,115
a more granular way here

822
00:36:11,145 --> 00:36:11,435
Okay.

823
00:36:11,745 --> 00:36:18,165
just listening to you right now,
growing my competency around the

824
00:36:18,165 --> 00:36:23,805
ones through nines in my life, that
knowledge alone carries significant

825
00:36:23,805 --> 00:36:26,015
impact as it relates to conflict.

826
00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:26,610
Absolutely.

827
00:36:26,765 --> 00:36:34,055
Because if I understand and fear
of whether it's my partner or it's

828
00:36:34,055 --> 00:36:37,565
somebody who's on my team, if I
understand their motivation and their

829
00:36:37,565 --> 00:36:42,995
fear, if I'm aware of their vice and
believe with them in their virtue,

830
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:43,450
Mm-hmm.

831
00:36:44,015 --> 00:36:47,235
then that radically transforms
the way that I show up with that

832
00:36:47,350 --> 00:36:47,770
Mm-hmm.

833
00:36:47,795 --> 00:36:48,155
person.

834
00:36:48,485 --> 00:36:48,845
Yeah.

835
00:36:49,025 --> 00:36:52,695
and when we trip into conflict,
because we will, because we're human.

836
00:36:52,695 --> 00:37:01,665
If I have knowledge of motivation, fear,
virtue, vice, I can use that knowledge.

837
00:37:02,385 --> 00:37:05,025
and if I know the same things
about myself, I can use this

838
00:37:05,025 --> 00:37:09,495
knowledge to transcend the moment,
to transform in the moment.

839
00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:09,990
Yeah.

840
00:37:10,155 --> 00:37:15,115
I can also see where the
knowledge I can weaponize that

841
00:37:15,115 --> 00:37:16,645
person's knowledge against them.

842
00:37:16,695 --> 00:37:16,985
Yeah.

843
00:37:17,045 --> 00:37:21,485
which is an act of violence to have the
knowledge of the fear and the vice in

844
00:37:21,485 --> 00:37:23,495
particular, and weaponize those things.

845
00:37:23,765 --> 00:37:26,045
I suppose you could also do with
the motivation and the virtue,

846
00:37:26,225 --> 00:37:26,515
Yeah.

847
00:37:26,555 --> 00:37:29,225
You know, I can see how that
can accelerate conflict.

848
00:37:29,235 --> 00:37:29,655
Mm-hmm.

849
00:37:30,035 --> 00:37:32,855
the understanding itself
is really helpful,

850
00:37:32,885 --> 00:37:33,305
Mm-hmm.

851
00:37:33,395 --> 00:37:36,755
as we're becoming conflict competent
Everyday Peacemakers in this world.

852
00:37:36,855 --> 00:37:37,275
Mm-hmm.

853
00:37:37,565 --> 00:37:40,385
I do think though, and I'm gonna
put you on on the spot a little bit.

854
00:37:40,385 --> 00:37:43,265
I mean, you're, your
command of this is to me.

855
00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:45,560
Think with us if you can.

856
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:52,810
and if we can go through the types
one more time as each type is moving

857
00:37:52,810 --> 00:37:59,570
toward conflict or finds themself in
conflict, what is a question what is a

858
00:37:59,570 --> 00:38:06,950
tool that maybe each type could hold to
would help them become resourceful in

859
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:09,050
the conflict rather than reactionary?

860
00:38:09,275 --> 00:38:09,695
Mm-hmm.

861
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:09,860
I

862
00:38:09,995 --> 00:38:10,415
Mm-hmm.

863
00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:12,890
us each a little toehold into that.

864
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:15,200
And I think that would be
really insightful for us.

865
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:15,920
Yeah.

866
00:38:17,390 --> 00:38:17,810
The,

867
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:18,500
Wow.

868
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,400
We might all have the same question.

869
00:38:20,460 --> 00:38:23,190
I mean, the que the question might
be the same, but then the practice

870
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:25,620
associated with the question
or the response to the question

871
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:27,230
probably is different for each type.

872
00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:31,440
but I think the questions that we
should all ask ourselves is, and I

873
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,180
alluded to this earlier, is one is
like, where's this person trying to get?

874
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,485
they're trying to get home.

875
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:44,050
And it may look really un
photogenic the way they're doing it.

876
00:38:44,170 --> 00:38:44,500
Yeah,

877
00:38:44,530 --> 00:38:47,410
And it may even be hurtful the way
that they're doing it, but they're

878
00:38:47,410 --> 00:38:53,740
actually trying to get home, which
changes the calculus of the whole thing.

879
00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:58,120
It's now, it's not just, I mean, conflict
transformation is beautiful and powerful.

880
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,050
I know Jer and the Global Immersion team,
you have incredible models for conflict

881
00:39:02,050 --> 00:39:04,600
transformation and processes to do that.

882
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,010
But I think this Enneagram kind even
helps reshape some of the motivation

883
00:39:09,010 --> 00:39:10,420
for conflict transformation.

884
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:10,920
Transformation.

885
00:39:11,220 --> 00:39:11,400
Can.

886
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:11,550
Yeah.

887
00:39:11,550 --> 00:39:12,030
Go.

888
00:39:12,090 --> 00:39:15,610
So, so, so now we can look
at it in the light of I'm not

889
00:39:15,610 --> 00:39:17,230
trying to just fix this issue.

890
00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:18,730
I'm trying to help you get home.

891
00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:19,540
yes.

892
00:39:19,570 --> 00:39:23,080
Like my mission now is you know, I'm,
I helped, I'm helping you get home.

893
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,570
I'm coaching this guy right now
professional businessman, and he

894
00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:26,660
is just, he wanted some coaching.

895
00:39:26,660 --> 00:39:31,120
man, how do I. How do I relate
better to my wife and understand her

896
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,610
better and my kids, and you know,
they're teenagers and how do I just

897
00:39:34,955 --> 00:39:35,225
Yeah.

898
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:36,860
communicate better with them?

899
00:39:36,860 --> 00:39:40,100
and so as we're talking,
it's well help them get home.

900
00:39:40,745 --> 00:39:41,165
Hmm.

901
00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:42,140
that, that's your role.

902
00:39:42,350 --> 00:39:43,940
Help them find their way home.

903
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:45,050
And really,

904
00:39:45,105 --> 00:39:49,240
could I even, I, what even occurs
to me and what is I think equal,

905
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:55,820
equally helpful for me is the thought
of, in this moment we're sojourners

906
00:39:56,224 --> 00:39:57,692
sojourners together , toward home.

907
00:39:57,937 --> 00:39:58,837
Yeah, yeah.

908
00:39:59,092 --> 00:40:03,462
'cause I can even feel in myself if my
job in the conflict is to help this person

909
00:40:03,462 --> 00:40:11,862
journey, that invites me into a hierarchy,
even or gives me a task that maybe what I

910
00:40:11,862 --> 00:40:16,162
actually need is to recognize, hey, we're
now in this together, journeying together

911
00:40:16,267 --> 00:40:16,567
Yeah.

912
00:40:16,822 --> 00:40:19,102
in this moment toward our collective home,

913
00:40:19,152 --> 00:40:19,452
Yeah.

914
00:40:19,662 --> 00:40:19,932
Yep.

915
00:40:20,052 --> 00:40:20,562
base.

916
00:40:20,862 --> 00:40:22,302
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

917
00:40:22,842 --> 00:40:26,142
And we probably don't have time
to go down this path, but really

918
00:40:26,142 --> 00:40:27,582
the gateway home is the virtue.

919
00:40:28,152 --> 00:40:29,772
So that you're having that virtue in mind.

920
00:40:29,772 --> 00:40:36,132
if I can, you know, if I can help the
three become his or her most authentic

921
00:40:36,132 --> 00:40:38,502
self, I'm helping that person get home.

922
00:40:38,772 --> 00:40:39,672
oh, that's so good,

923
00:40:39,747 --> 00:40:45,677
if I can help the five focus in and get
clarity, I'm helping that five get home.

924
00:40:45,677 --> 00:40:47,477
I'm not just helping
them be a better person.

925
00:40:47,477 --> 00:40:50,507
I'm helping them be their
truest self and get home.

926
00:40:50,712 --> 00:40:51,132
Mm-hmm.

927
00:40:51,407 --> 00:40:54,407
when we operate out of a home
base, we just get along better

928
00:40:54,652 --> 00:40:55,072
Mm-hmm.

929
00:40:55,542 --> 00:40:55,832
Yeah.

930
00:40:56,147 --> 00:40:57,407
the world is a better place.

931
00:40:57,437 --> 00:40:58,907
So, so yeah.

932
00:40:58,907 --> 00:41:02,477
I think for conflict dynamics, and
I mean, I think that's one thing

933
00:41:02,477 --> 00:41:05,787
I do is okay, this, just remember
this person's trying to get home.

934
00:41:05,787 --> 00:41:06,117
Where are they?

935
00:41:06,207 --> 00:41:07,197
Where are they trying to get?

936
00:41:07,287 --> 00:41:09,027
And how can I help them get there?

937
00:41:09,177 --> 00:41:09,597
Mm-hmm.

938
00:41:10,707 --> 00:41:12,387
maybe a related question is.

939
00:41:13,122 --> 00:41:14,142
what's triggering me?

940
00:41:14,182 --> 00:41:17,272
which is another way of saying, am
I feeling blocked from getting home?

941
00:41:17,752 --> 00:41:19,552
You know, so this Enneagram seven, right?

942
00:41:19,552 --> 00:41:21,802
I want Joy is my home, my way home.

943
00:41:21,802 --> 00:41:25,942
I'm trying to get the joy and, you know,
maybe this conflict is oh man, I'm getting

944
00:41:25,942 --> 00:41:28,072
thrown back in the mire in the mud of

945
00:41:28,402 --> 00:41:28,702
Yeah.

946
00:41:28,852 --> 00:41:30,202
ugliness and dysfunction.

947
00:41:30,232 --> 00:41:35,302
I want out, well, I need the world
to help me lift out of that and get

948
00:41:35,302 --> 00:41:37,792
back on the pathway towards joy again.

949
00:41:37,792 --> 00:41:40,912
That's a long path and it's, it
takes us down the developmental path.

950
00:41:40,912 --> 00:41:42,172
So we don't have time for in this call...

951
00:41:42,222 --> 00:41:47,342
Rob, I am just struck right now by
what I'm calling a fuse-less society.

952
00:41:47,777 --> 00:41:48,227
Hmm.

953
00:41:48,392 --> 00:41:52,202
And what I mean by that is we don't
have long fuses or short fuses.

954
00:41:52,202 --> 00:41:54,272
Too many of us don't have fuses anymore.

955
00:41:54,482 --> 00:42:00,542
And the process that you just even
invited us to consider is like a fuse

956
00:42:00,542 --> 00:42:03,482
growing or a fuse regrowing process.

957
00:42:03,482 --> 00:42:08,102
I, what I mean is when conflict
approaches us, too, many of us

958
00:42:08,132 --> 00:42:12,392
immediately lose our executive function
and move into reptilian thinking,

959
00:42:12,552 --> 00:42:12,842
Yeah.

960
00:42:12,992 --> 00:42:14,432
we're fighting or we're flying away.

961
00:42:14,582 --> 00:42:15,002
Mm-hmm.

962
00:42:15,782 --> 00:42:19,942
The question or the
consideration, what is their home?

963
00:42:20,562 --> 00:42:25,262
or how is this moment blocking
me from my journey home?

964
00:42:26,462 --> 00:42:29,492
That feels like a fuse growing invitation.

965
00:42:29,622 --> 00:42:30,042
Mm-hmm.

966
00:42:30,272 --> 00:42:33,472
And so for we, we who are listening
in, again, like I, I teach

967
00:42:33,472 --> 00:42:38,752
regularly that the most important
tool for Peacemaking or conflict

968
00:42:38,752 --> 00:42:40,342
transformation is belly breathing.

969
00:42:41,212 --> 00:42:41,632
Mm-hmm.

970
00:42:41,927 --> 00:42:46,642
And, and I wonder how, and that's
literally just the stimulating the

971
00:42:46,642 --> 00:42:49,462
vagus nerve through big, huge breaths

972
00:42:49,687 --> 00:42:50,107
Mm-hmm.

973
00:42:50,182 --> 00:42:52,222
push our genes way out,

974
00:42:52,402 --> 00:42:52,702
Yeah.

975
00:42:52,702 --> 00:42:53,032
Mm-hmm.

976
00:42:53,312 --> 00:42:57,782
And it's like the belly
breathing itself gives us the

977
00:42:57,782 --> 00:43:00,512
capacity to wonder those things.

978
00:43:00,572 --> 00:43:00,692
Yeah.

979
00:43:01,242 --> 00:43:05,032
and I'm just even wondering how like
the process of belly breathing and

980
00:43:05,032 --> 00:43:11,032
considering those two questions is
enough to help us engage the conflict

981
00:43:11,152 --> 00:43:11,722
Absolutely.

982
00:43:12,562 --> 00:43:12,832
Yeah.

983
00:43:12,982 --> 00:43:14,992
So that alone is enough for me to be

984
00:43:15,052 --> 00:43:15,412
Yeah,

985
00:43:15,652 --> 00:43:16,972
let me just practice that.

986
00:43:17,062 --> 00:43:17,392
Yeah.

987
00:43:17,422 --> 00:43:17,602
Yeah.

988
00:43:17,602 --> 00:43:18,562
that's the big step.

989
00:43:18,612 --> 00:43:19,147
that's the big

990
00:43:19,267 --> 00:43:19,657
step.

991
00:43:19,717 --> 00:43:20,107
that is.

992
00:43:20,437 --> 00:43:22,957
gi now give us like, there are some
actual practical tools that you would

993
00:43:22,957 --> 00:43:24,997
recommend, but I think the universal

994
00:43:25,292 --> 00:43:25,712
Mm-hmm.

995
00:43:26,362 --> 00:43:27,592
Let's breathe deeper

996
00:43:27,602 --> 00:43:28,022
Mm-hmm.

997
00:43:28,492 --> 00:43:29,752
the bigger picture

998
00:43:30,007 --> 00:43:30,427
Yeah.

999
00:43:30,832 --> 00:43:32,782
to companion one another in this moment.

1000
00:43:32,827 --> 00:43:33,157
Yeah.

1001
00:43:33,217 --> 00:43:33,667
Perfect.

1002
00:43:33,877 --> 00:43:34,237
Perfect.

1003
00:43:35,557 --> 00:43:39,387
so here are just some smaller, more
micro, tips, if you will, for each type.

1004
00:43:39,927 --> 00:43:43,777
So for the one in conflict
or in a difficult situation.

1005
00:43:43,777 --> 00:43:45,997
and after you've kind of asked
yourself that question, like,

1006
00:43:46,927 --> 00:43:48,127
where am I feeling triggered?

1007
00:43:48,127 --> 00:43:49,657
Where am I feeling
blocked from getting home?

1008
00:43:49,657 --> 00:43:50,977
Where's this person trying to get to?

1009
00:43:50,977 --> 00:43:54,787
what's their virtue that I could
help bring back into the reality?

1010
00:43:54,837 --> 00:43:56,707
And that takes time, that's
not, you're not gonna have

1011
00:43:56,707 --> 00:43:57,727
an immediate answer to that.

1012
00:43:57,757 --> 00:43:58,837
You're gonna have to sit with that.

1013
00:43:58,867 --> 00:44:00,817
You might have to come
back to that a week later.

1014
00:44:00,967 --> 00:44:02,467
You might have to come
back, but two weeks later.

1015
00:44:02,947 --> 00:44:06,237
But then for the one I would
tell the one in the space of

1016
00:44:06,237 --> 00:44:08,397
conflict is give yourself grace.

1017
00:44:08,797 --> 00:44:09,017
Hmm.

1018
00:44:09,147 --> 00:44:10,227
You know, the ones need to hear that.

1019
00:44:10,227 --> 00:44:11,607
Just give yourself grace.

1020
00:44:12,117 --> 00:44:15,327
'Cause they, the ones will beat
themselves up faster and harder than

1021
00:44:15,327 --> 00:44:17,367
any other Enneagram type 'cause.

1022
00:44:17,997 --> 00:44:20,607
They want things to be right, and
they know they're not totally right.

1023
00:44:20,727 --> 00:44:23,827
And so, in the midst of
conflict, give yourself grace.

1024
00:44:23,827 --> 00:44:25,837
You're gonna feel some anger,
you're gonna feel threatened,

1025
00:44:25,837 --> 00:44:26,887
you're gonna feel these things.

1026
00:44:26,947 --> 00:44:27,577
That's okay.

1027
00:44:28,117 --> 00:44:30,457
just feel it and don't
beat yourself up with it.

1028
00:44:31,837 --> 00:44:35,877
For the twos I encourage 'em
to prioritize authenticity.

1029
00:44:35,937 --> 00:44:41,727
In other words, be direct and ask people
for what you need and for what you want.

1030
00:44:42,357 --> 00:44:45,717
'cause two often feel like I
can't really be direct 'cause

1031
00:44:45,717 --> 00:44:47,177
that I need the more please.

1032
00:44:47,227 --> 00:44:50,907
I need to like, let
you lead and I respond.

1033
00:44:50,907 --> 00:44:54,837
And so for the two is they gotta really
consciously think about, okay, I need to

1034
00:44:54,837 --> 00:44:57,197
tell you what I need in the situation.

1035
00:44:57,342 --> 00:44:58,002
That's really good.

1036
00:44:58,637 --> 00:44:59,567
For the three.

1037
00:45:00,497 --> 00:45:01,847
Check in with your emotions.

1038
00:45:02,597 --> 00:45:07,547
The threes are really good at
understanding everybody else's emotions.

1039
00:45:07,877 --> 00:45:12,017
They're very attuned to the emotions
in the room where everybody's at.

1040
00:45:12,677 --> 00:45:17,267
They can respond to that really well,
but they're, of all the Enneagram

1041
00:45:17,267 --> 00:45:20,897
types, they're typically the least
attuned to their own feelings.

1042
00:45:21,347 --> 00:45:24,497
So I mean, they're the ones that
gotta check in with your emotions.

1043
00:45:24,707 --> 00:45:27,467
Your emotions, not the emotions
of the room, your emotions.

1044
00:45:27,637 --> 00:45:27,837
on.

1045
00:45:28,187 --> 00:45:32,462
Fours, I encourage fours to focus
on the facts, not just the feelings.

1046
00:45:32,882 --> 00:45:34,832
So they'll instantly like.

1047
00:45:35,262 --> 00:45:35,552
Yeah.

1048
00:45:36,317 --> 00:45:42,917
Be consumed with the feelings in the
space of conflict, the relationships,

1049
00:45:42,917 --> 00:45:45,887
the dynamics, and they're just,
they're feeling everything on,

1050
00:45:46,007 --> 00:45:47,717
you know, on at a hyper level.

1051
00:45:48,527 --> 00:45:52,727
And so the fours need to be reminded,
there, there are facts, there is like

1052
00:45:52,937 --> 00:45:58,132
data points, like focus on those and
it's not, don't feel, but just don't

1053
00:45:58,132 --> 00:46:00,752
just feel, lean into the actual facts.

1054
00:46:01,322 --> 00:46:04,262
For fives, the Enneagram
five, the investigator type,

1055
00:46:05,102 --> 00:46:06,632
pay attention to your body.

1056
00:46:07,172 --> 00:46:10,922
So fives classically live
between the ear lobes.

1057
00:46:10,982 --> 00:46:14,072
I mean, fives are just here all the time.

1058
00:46:14,512 --> 00:46:18,242
And not attuned to the fact that
Their body's breaking down that

1059
00:46:18,252 --> 00:46:22,332
their stress is, you know, taking
over some portion of their body.

1060
00:46:22,332 --> 00:46:26,982
So for the five, they're like, man, how
do I, how does my body actually feel?

1061
00:46:27,062 --> 00:46:30,632
what is a somatic result
of this conflict on me?

1062
00:46:31,802 --> 00:46:35,822
For the Enneagram six, that
loyalist trust yourself.

1063
00:46:36,632 --> 00:46:37,772
Trust yourself.

1064
00:46:38,192 --> 00:46:40,292
Sixes are great at trusting others.

1065
00:46:40,322 --> 00:46:41,822
They're great at trusting the room.

1066
00:46:41,822 --> 00:46:43,322
They're great at trusting leaders.

1067
00:46:43,322 --> 00:46:48,842
They're great teammates, but
God is guiding them as well.

1068
00:46:49,262 --> 00:46:52,502
And we need to hear God's
voice through them as well.

1069
00:46:53,012 --> 00:46:55,262
So trust yourself because you matter.

1070
00:46:55,652 --> 00:46:58,072
And how the Spirit is working through you.

1071
00:46:58,922 --> 00:46:59,612
we need that.

1072
00:46:59,957 --> 00:47:00,137
Yeah.

1073
00:47:00,452 --> 00:47:03,092
For the Enneagram seven
I encourage the seven.

1074
00:47:03,152 --> 00:47:04,112
I encourage myself.

1075
00:47:05,477 --> 00:47:07,547
Sit with negative emotions.

1076
00:47:07,952 --> 00:47:09,732
we just, we want to blow by 'em.

1077
00:47:10,122 --> 00:47:10,992
Just boom.

1078
00:47:10,992 --> 00:47:11,322
Okay.

1079
00:47:11,322 --> 00:47:11,832
That was bad.

1080
00:47:11,832 --> 00:47:13,272
Yeah, that was that, that's that sucked.

1081
00:47:13,812 --> 00:47:14,982
Boom, I'm off.

1082
00:47:15,432 --> 00:47:18,042
And I don't learn.

1083
00:47:18,042 --> 00:47:18,672
I don't grow.

1084
00:47:18,672 --> 00:47:21,222
I don't even heal if I don't sit with it.

1085
00:47:21,702 --> 00:47:26,322
Now I say sit, I say that
metaphorically sometimes the seven

1086
00:47:26,322 --> 00:47:30,732
actually needs to walk with negative
emotions or run with negative

1087
00:47:30,732 --> 00:47:32,442
emotions or surfboard with negative.

1088
00:47:32,442 --> 00:47:35,202
I mean, they, something physical,
something active, something this

1089
00:47:35,202 --> 00:47:43,332
movement, but consciously allow the
negative emotions to be observed

1090
00:47:43,662 --> 00:47:44,052
Hmm.

1091
00:47:44,112 --> 00:47:47,832
and understood, confessed and

1092
00:47:47,832 --> 00:47:48,622
healed

1093
00:47:49,492 --> 00:47:49,852
Hmm.

1094
00:47:49,972 --> 00:47:51,232
rather than just blowing by them.

1095
00:47:52,522 --> 00:47:54,532
For the eight in the midst of conflict.

1096
00:47:55,102 --> 00:47:58,382
Encouragement would be to
speak out vulnerability,

1097
00:47:58,772 --> 00:47:59,162
Hmm.

1098
00:47:59,377 --> 00:48:03,662
to, to not just be vulnerable,
which is an amazing thing, but to

1099
00:48:03,662 --> 00:48:07,142
actually speak it out, which is like
counterintuitive to everything at

1100
00:48:07,142 --> 00:48:08,912
eight is going on in their mind.

1101
00:48:08,942 --> 00:48:09,332
'cause they,

1102
00:48:09,452 --> 00:48:09,962
Mm-hmm.

1103
00:48:09,992 --> 00:48:12,962
aid, especially in the midst
of conflict, to admit any

1104
00:48:12,962 --> 00:48:14,342
weakness, is like giving ground.

1105
00:48:14,832 --> 00:48:18,037
it's giving the enemy, a,
a window in a doorway in.

1106
00:48:18,487 --> 00:48:24,877
But that's that upside down wisdom
that the eight says, you know,

1107
00:48:24,927 --> 00:48:26,427
I feel this way in this moment.

1108
00:48:27,417 --> 00:48:30,457
And I, you know, and that's
vulnerable, that's honest and real.

1109
00:48:30,977 --> 00:48:32,537
Let that change the dynamic, which

1110
00:48:32,987 --> 00:48:35,477
is gonna require the eight to trust God,

1111
00:48:35,617 --> 00:48:36,037
Mm-hmm.

1112
00:48:36,317 --> 00:48:37,727
to trust God with the outcome.

1113
00:48:38,187 --> 00:48:41,427
And not just to power through
it and will it into being.

1114
00:48:41,737 --> 00:48:42,027
Yeah.

1115
00:48:42,327 --> 00:48:45,237
And then finally for the nine,
that mediator person that can

1116
00:48:45,237 --> 00:48:48,267
maybe have that tendency to kind
of fade into the background.

1117
00:48:48,837 --> 00:48:51,457
The encouragement for the
nine is do the hard thing.

1118
00:48:52,072 --> 00:48:53,042
do the hard thing.

1119
00:48:53,612 --> 00:48:55,442
'Cause the nine, they want harmony.

1120
00:48:55,512 --> 00:48:57,162
they want everybody to be at peace.

1121
00:48:58,002 --> 00:49:01,752
And the temptation is let's
make this as easy as possible.

1122
00:49:01,752 --> 00:49:05,642
As, as little, you know, we don't,
let's not, yeah, let's not do the

1123
00:49:05,642 --> 00:49:10,872
hard thing, which might be being
very honest or even confrontational.

1124
00:49:11,147 --> 00:49:11,567
Mm-hmm.

1125
00:49:11,682 --> 00:49:15,552
the nine needs to kind of break out of
that safe space and do the hard thing.

1126
00:49:15,792 --> 00:49:16,152
Hmm.

1127
00:49:16,422 --> 00:49:19,632
So anyway, those are some little
tips for each of the nine types.

1128
00:49:19,682 --> 00:49:24,452
I, this I'll be listening
to this with my wife Jackie.

1129
00:49:24,452 --> 00:49:26,702
I'll be listening to this with my team.

1130
00:49:26,702 --> 00:49:31,217
You know, like this, I, I. You
just took us around the horn

1131
00:49:31,217 --> 00:49:34,907
four times, in this conversation.

1132
00:49:35,147 --> 00:49:40,297
And I know that it's just the tip of the
iceberg of this tool, but there are some

1133
00:49:40,297 --> 00:49:45,957
real contours that you just helped us
with Rob and I'm so grateful that you have

1134
00:49:45,957 --> 00:49:50,607
found this tool that it has so shaped your
life and that you've done the work for us

1135
00:49:50,607 --> 00:49:55,907
to be able to articulate it in this way to
grow our collective conflict competency.

1136
00:49:55,907 --> 00:49:56,747
'cause we need it.

1137
00:49:57,167 --> 00:49:57,377
Hmm.

1138
00:49:57,587 --> 00:50:02,927
I think that one of the most hopeful
alternative ways to show up on the

1139
00:50:02,927 --> 00:50:09,237
planet right now is centered and
anchored in this case living into

1140
00:50:09,297 --> 00:50:10,917
virtue rather than vice when it

1141
00:50:10,942 --> 00:50:11,362
Mm-hmm.

1142
00:50:12,327 --> 00:50:12,747
Amen.

1143
00:50:12,777 --> 00:50:17,247
And I think too many have given up the
hope that we can actually live that way.

1144
00:50:17,552 --> 00:50:17,632
Hmm.

1145
00:50:17,877 --> 00:50:20,187
And I think you just grew
our hope a little bit that we

1146
00:50:20,187 --> 00:50:21,177
can, so I'm really grateful

1147
00:50:21,352 --> 00:50:21,472
Hmm.

1148
00:50:21,777 --> 00:50:23,757
Yeah, I, this maybe a final thought.

1149
00:50:23,767 --> 00:50:28,297
When I first got steeped into the
Enneagram, and I've read more books

1150
00:50:28,297 --> 00:50:31,327
than I could count, but it was like 30
years ago and it was a long time back

1151
00:50:31,837 --> 00:50:33,397
when it was really kind of trendy.

1152
00:50:33,607 --> 00:50:35,137
I mean, it's still very popular,

1153
00:50:35,212 --> 00:50:35,542
Yeah.

1154
00:50:35,617 --> 00:50:37,177
deservedly so, it's powerful.

1155
00:50:38,737 --> 00:50:41,617
One of the trends though, I've seen
Jer that I'm super encouraged by,

1156
00:50:41,617 --> 00:50:44,677
like in the early years, my early
years, at least 30 years, you know,

1157
00:50:45,337 --> 00:50:47,977
it was really pretty self-focused.

1158
00:50:48,127 --> 00:50:50,887
It was like, I want to know me.

1159
00:50:51,217 --> 00:50:52,922
I, you know, which again good.

1160
00:50:52,927 --> 00:50:54,827
I, I'm not saying this is a bad thing.

1161
00:50:54,987 --> 00:50:58,287
I wanna understand me, I wanna
understand my wiring, how I tick, but

1162
00:50:58,287 --> 00:51:01,027
it kind of didn't often go beyond that.

1163
00:51:01,867 --> 00:51:05,337
Now I see a real trend
towards an otherness

1164
00:51:05,397 --> 00:51:06,057
Mm-hmm.

1165
00:51:06,387 --> 00:51:06,567
Good.

1166
00:51:06,567 --> 00:51:06,717
Yeah.

1167
00:51:06,927 --> 00:51:07,947
and I love that.

1168
00:51:07,947 --> 00:51:10,197
it's almost everybody
that approaches me now.

1169
00:51:10,197 --> 00:51:12,097
It's can you help me with my company?

1170
00:51:12,577 --> 00:51:13,867
Can you help me with my team?

1171
00:51:13,867 --> 00:51:15,247
Can you help me with my elder board?

1172
00:51:15,457 --> 00:51:17,002
Can you can, it's it's othering.

1173
00:51:17,137 --> 00:51:20,447
It's I wanna understand the other
person and what makes them tick

1174
00:51:20,447 --> 00:51:21,767
and how I can interact with them.

1175
00:51:21,767 --> 00:51:23,387
And so that's that.

1176
00:51:23,507 --> 00:51:26,112
As you started, that's that
intersection of Enneagram and

1177
00:51:26,112 --> 00:51:29,742
conflict and team building and Yeah.

1178
00:51:30,207 --> 00:51:30,417
Yeah.

1179
00:51:30,417 --> 00:51:34,017
So any in any way right now
for us to understand us and

1180
00:51:34,017 --> 00:51:35,397
how we relate to one another

1181
00:51:35,652 --> 00:51:35,952
Yeah,

1182
00:51:36,207 --> 00:51:38,577
and more constructively ah, let it happen.

1183
00:51:38,862 --> 00:51:39,162
yeah.

1184
00:51:39,282 --> 00:51:39,612
Amen.

1185
00:51:39,667 --> 00:51:43,177
Rob, you're you're a guide for
my journey and now for so many

1186
00:51:43,177 --> 00:51:44,677
of us, we're super grateful.

1187
00:51:44,682 --> 00:51:48,692
I feel like there's another
couple conversations coming all of

1188
00:51:48,767 --> 00:51:48,887
Yeah.

1189
00:51:48,887 --> 00:51:50,387
We were scratching the surface here.

1190
00:51:50,522 --> 00:51:50,642
we

1191
00:51:50,837 --> 00:51:51,167
Yeah.

1192
00:51:51,362 --> 00:51:56,522
the surface and I think in this time
though, we got a really robust view how

1193
00:51:56,522 --> 00:52:00,782
understanding this tool and integrating
this tool in our own lives and in

1194
00:52:00,782 --> 00:52:02,372
the lives of our teams and families

1195
00:52:02,417 --> 00:52:02,807
Hmm.

1196
00:52:02,852 --> 00:52:04,172
can help us transform conflict.

1197
00:52:04,242 --> 00:52:05,472
So thanks for this gift.

1198
00:52:05,877 --> 00:52:06,237
Wow.

1199
00:52:06,237 --> 00:52:06,687
Thanks.

1200
00:52:06,882 --> 00:52:07,092
soon.

1201
00:52:07,377 --> 00:52:07,587
Yeah.

1202
00:52:07,587 --> 00:52:08,307
Thanks for having me.

1203
00:52:08,307 --> 00:52:08,937
I've enjoyed it.

1204
00:52:10,383 --> 00:52:11,133
What a gift.

1205
00:52:11,683 --> 00:52:14,237
I hope you caught the steady
thread of encouragement running

1206
00:52:14,317 --> 00:52:15,385
through this conversation.

1207
00:52:15,568 --> 00:52:18,038
Conflict doesn't have to divide us.

1208
00:52:18,833 --> 00:52:23,153
we understand ourselves and one another
with honesty and compassion, conflict

1209
00:52:23,183 --> 00:52:27,143
truly becomes an opportunity for deeper
connection, trust, and belonging.

1210
00:52:28,043 --> 00:52:30,833
Maybe today you heard something
about your type or about someone

1211
00:52:30,833 --> 00:52:34,733
you love that gave you language
for what happens when we get tense.

1212
00:52:35,423 --> 00:52:38,753
My encouragement is
don't just file it away.

1213
00:52:39,413 --> 00:52:43,763
Try the practice Rob offered for your
number the next time you feel your

1214
00:52:43,763 --> 00:52:48,443
shoulders tighten or your voice rise
or your instinct to retreat, kick in.

1215
00:52:49,103 --> 00:52:53,633
Because here's the truth,
goal isn't to avoid conflict.

1216
00:52:54,563 --> 00:52:58,403
It's to show up in conflict as
our fullest, healthiest selves.

1217
00:52:58,403 --> 00:53:02,573
People who can name what's true,
honor one another's humanity, and

1218
00:53:02,573 --> 00:53:05,033
imagine a way forward together.

1219
00:53:06,233 --> 00:53:09,083
Thanks for joining us for this
episode of Mending Divides.

1220
00:53:09,263 --> 00:53:11,633
If you found it meaningful,
share it with someone you love.

1221
00:53:12,083 --> 00:53:15,083
Subscribe wherever you listen and
keep coming back as we continue to

1222
00:53:15,083 --> 00:53:19,323
learn how to be Everyday Peacemakers
in a world divided by pain.

1223
00:53:20,013 --> 00:53:21,593
Until next time, keep showing up.

1224
00:53:22,013 --> 00:53:25,523
Stay curious and make
peace right where you are.