1
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,630
Hey there, and welcome back to another episode of On Your Terms.

2
00:00:12,630 --> 00:00:14,470
I'm your host, Sam Vander Wielen.

3
00:00:14,470 --> 00:00:17,400
And I'm so excited to share this guest episode with you today.

4
00:00:17,580 --> 00:00:21,180
Today, we're talking to my friend and my colleague, Katie Horwitch.

5
00:00:21,210 --> 00:00:29,410
Katie is a New York City-based writer, speaker, mindset coach, and the founder
of WANT, Women Against Negative Talk.

6
00:00:29,430 --> 00:00:39,180
It's a platform and a podcast by the same name that gives you tips, tools,
motivation, and inspiration to move forward in your life by shifting your
negative self-talk.

7
00:00:39,510 --> 00:00:42,990
It's so, so important that Katie is doing this work.

8
00:00:42,990 --> 00:00:48,360
And her work has appeared on CNN, The Cut, Mindbodygreen, and so much more.

9
00:00:48,390 --> 00:00:51,060
You might have even worked out with her on the app Aptiv.

10
00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:52,370
Katie is super cool.

11
00:00:52,380 --> 00:00:54,750
I've spoken with her at conferences before.

12
00:00:54,750 --> 00:00:55,820
We've met in real life.

13
00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:59,760
And I'm just really excited to bring this conversation to you today.

14
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,100
I'm so curious about self-talk myself.

15
00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:08,040
I personally don't know a ton about it other than just knowing, maybe, a basic
definition or something like that.

16
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:13,370
So, I was really curious to get to talk to somebody who talks about self-talk
for a living.

17
00:01:13,370 --> 00:01:16,010
And I also want to know how we could get better at it.

18
00:01:16,020 --> 00:01:25,860
And, particularly, you know, to just talk with Katie about how self-talk issues
or little things that we've got to navigate come up

19
00:01:25,860 --> 00:01:27,810
for us as entrepreneurs.

20
00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:36,240
I don't know about you, but a lot of this kind of stuff comes up for me in
social media and using social media being, you know, more visible sometimes, and
things like that.

21
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:46,140
And you'll hear me talk with Katie a lot in today's episode about what is going
on, on social media, and how people are,

22
00:01:46,170 --> 00:01:48,900
you know, kind of announcing their departure, people are leaving.

23
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:54,240
People are sharing a lot more about how it's affecting their mental health and
their wellbeing.

24
00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:00,820
And I was just so curious from somebody's perspective who studies self-talk,
what she thought about all of that.

25
00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:10,320
Because I know for me, when I see people announcing that they're leaving
Instagram or that they're making some major shift in their business and kind of
going more

26
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:18,000
inwards and more private, I'm always curious about what that brings up for me 
so I will take something away from that.

27
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,480
Like, should I be leaving social media?

28
00:02:19,500 --> 00:02:21,390
Should I not be on here as much?

29
00:02:21,390 --> 00:02:30,610
I started judging myself, talking to myself, or I start saying like, "Oh, I
wish that I had the courage to do something like that." You know, it's like
something only they can do, but I can't do.

30
00:02:30,610 --> 00:02:35,900
And then, I always am curious as to what's coming up for them, what's going on
for them that led them to this decision.

31
00:02:35,900 --> 00:02:41,910
So, we talk a lot about social media in general, people wanting to be on it
less, but also trying to build their business there.

32
00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:49,140
I think another cool thing you're going to get out of my episode with Katie is
talking through her career journey and how she got to where she is today.

33
00:02:49,140 --> 00:02:52,290
So, I'll let her tell the story to you here in a few minutes.

34
00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:58,020
But if anybody out there is wondering how this windy path ends up, I think
you'll enjoy this episode.

35
00:02:58,050 --> 00:03:06,330
So, with that, let's get into it.

36
00:03:06,330 --> 00:03:07,290
Hey, Katie. How are you doing?

37
00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:14,550
I am doing fantastically, mostly because I just spent the last hour with you.

38
00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:21,040
And we're doing a little pod swap here, so we'll put a link below so that we
make sure that we link to Katie's podcast, WANTcast.

39
00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:22,200
We'll talk about that too.

40
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,710
But we just did an episode together and it was so fun.

41
00:03:26,430 --> 00:03:27,900
It's so good.

42
00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:29,220
It's so good, everyone.

43
00:03:29,220 --> 00:03:31,230
I can't wait for people to hear it.

44
00:03:31,260 --> 00:03:33,030
I can't wait to listen back to it.

45
00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:34,260
Like everyone is there.

46
00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:36,810
Do you ever listen to your own podcast episode?

47
00:03:36,820 --> 00:03:38,190
Someone asked me this the other day.

48
00:03:38,910 --> 00:03:42,330
I do. I do. I listen to every single episode.

49
00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:44,940
I edit most of them myself.

50
00:03:44,940 --> 00:03:48,240
I have someone that I call on if I'm just super, super overwhelmed that I need
help.

51
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,780
So, I listen from different perspectives.

52
00:03:51,780 --> 00:04:01,140
And I think that part of that is from my acting and performer background, is
that, my first pass

53
00:04:01,140 --> 00:04:11,100
around when I'm first listening to the episode from editing, I listen from the
guest if it's an interview, the

54
00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:16,800
guest's perspective and the listener's perspective, the audience's perspective.

55
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:26,250
Because I want to get my ego out of the way so that I can serve them and give
the listener the best listening experience

56
00:04:26,250 --> 00:04:35,130
possible. And I want the person who's been on the podcast, if they listen to
their interview, which hopefully they will, I want it to be something that
they're proud of.

57
00:04:35,220 --> 00:04:38,730
And so, that's my first pass or my second pass.

58
00:04:38,730 --> 00:04:47,900
And then, when I listen back when it's published, I listen from a sort of
self-mentoring perspective.

59
00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:49,840
So, listening for, "Okay.

60
00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:51,780
Well, when did I feel like myself?

61
00:04:51,780 --> 00:05:01,470
What did I like? What did I not like?" And really listening proactively, 
because - I don't know if you feel the same way - it can be

62
00:05:01,470 --> 00:05:08,460
very, very easy to get into that self-critical mindset when you're hearing
yourself.

63
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:15,060
Especially because as humans, the way we hear ourselves in our head is very
different from the way we hear ourselves out loud.

64
00:05:15,060 --> 00:05:23,190
So, I really, over the years, have practiced putting that part of myself aside
in service of

65
00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:27,480
the greater scope of work, if that makes sense.

66
00:05:27,510 --> 00:05:28,770
Yeah. That totally makes sense.

67
00:05:28,770 --> 00:05:37,560
I think that's a really good tip for people to know, too, and to do a little
self-auditing as they're listening back to their own content or if they are
going to start a podcast.

68
00:05:37,590 --> 00:05:43,290
I've been getting a lot of questions lately about starting a podcast, and we
will loop this into the tips as well.

69
00:05:43,290 --> 00:05:45,790
But you mentioned your acting background.

70
00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:53,640
I know a bit about it, but I would love for you to share with everybody a
little bit about what you did before what you're doing today.

71
00:05:54,180 --> 00:06:00,180
Yeah. So, I went to school for drama, specifically for musical theater.

72
00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:06,480
I started acting when I was, probably, in fifth grade.

73
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:12,100
Like, I did the yearly school shows and holiday shows since I was in
kindergarten.

74
00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:22,040
But I started doing plays and musicals when I was in fifth grade, I believe, and
I loved it so much.

75
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:32,000
And something that I found was really interesting is, as I started to get more
immersed in the theater world, was total theater kid in

76
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,700
high school, president of Theater Arts Club, director of the Acapella Group.

77
00:06:36,710 --> 00:06:38,510
I was that person.

78
00:06:38,510 --> 00:06:47,870
And I realized that being on stage for me was less about getting lost in a
character and more about becoming

79
00:06:47,870 --> 00:06:50,360
more of myself.

80
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:58,990
I always felt like the fullest version of myself when I was on a stage.

81
00:06:58,990 --> 00:07:03,020
And I went to school, like I said, for drama, for musical theater.

82
00:07:03,050 --> 00:07:12,770
I acted professionally in TV shows, and movies, and commercials, and theater
for my late teens.

83
00:07:12,770 --> 00:07:17,980
Early 20s, I still do some of that work.

84
00:07:17,980 --> 00:07:27,800
Now, because I was so entrenched with it, and it was so a part of my life, I
developed the relationships where I get to do

85
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,090
certain things at certain times.

86
00:07:29,090 --> 00:07:35,840
I get to do a reading of a musical or I get to do a spot for a fitness company.

87
00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:45,290
It's super cool. And I know that your podcast is called On Your Terms, when I
started to move away from being

88
00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:55,160
on an acting stage, on a theater stage, and I got more interested in fitness
and being on a fitness stage, I always said to myself,

89
00:07:55,190 --> 00:07:58,550
"Well, I don't want to put behind performing.

90
00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:07,640
I just want to do it on my terms." And I realized that a lot of the world that
I was being

91
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:16,850
surrounded by in that theater performing world, especially as a 20 something
and an early 20 something year

92
00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:23,810
old, it was a world that involved a lot of games that I didn't want to play.

93
00:08:23,810 --> 00:08:29,570
And not only do I not want to play it, but they didn't feel within integrity to
be playing.

94
00:08:29,570 --> 00:08:39,110
And I define integrity as when the intent that you have matches the impact that
you have.

95
00:08:39,140 --> 00:08:42,500
And I found a lot of times that those weren't matching up.

96
00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:49,730
And, moreover, that was affecting how I was able to basically be myself on a
stage.

97
00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:59,720
And so, when I found fitness, which came after struggling with eating and body
related disorders, and,

98
00:09:00,170 --> 00:09:09,980
really, if I look back throughout my teens and it came to a head in college, I
found that fitness and being a group fitness instructor, specifically,

99
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:17,510
was a place where I was able to be on a stage and be fully and completely
myself.

100
00:09:18,230 --> 00:09:23,300
And it was the stage that felt the most natural to me.

101
00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:33,020
And what's really cool now is that, beyond just doing an acting gig or a
performance gig here or there, I feel like my work

102
00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:42,860
now is taking so much of what I loved from so many different aspects of my life
into the different facets of my career up until

103
00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:44,770
now as a 35 year old.

104
00:09:44,770 --> 00:09:54,710
It's taken the stuff that I have loved the most, that I've excelled the most at,
and that I have been willing to play the game

105
00:09:54,710 --> 00:10:02,270
with, and I'm able to be my fullest self here now using all of that stuff.

106
00:10:02,270 --> 00:10:07,690
So, it's interesting. My life doesn't look the way that I thought it was going
to look.

107
00:10:07,690 --> 00:10:11,180
But in so many ways it feels the way that I hoped it would feel.

108
00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:16,580
Like, all the elements are there, that's for sure.

109
00:10:16,580 --> 00:10:24,110
I think there is a certain element of acting and theater that goes on in what
we do anyway, right?

110
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:33,690
And I know you and I will talk a lot about social media today, but when I look
at social media, as a theater kid myself growing up -

111
00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:43,220
not any good, but I enjoyed it - I feel like I can see a lot of that of just
putting on the space

112
00:10:43,220 --> 00:10:47,510
sometimes or having to show up in ways because it's also our job.

113
00:10:47,510 --> 00:10:55,170
So, it's like a weird intersection of you have to be here in a way in the sense
that I know we all choose to be here and choose to be on social media.

114
00:10:55,170 --> 00:10:57,870
But we choose to run our businesses there.

115
00:10:57,890 --> 00:11:00,650
And then, in order to run our business there, you have to show up in a certain
way.

116
00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:06,450
And so, sometimes I feel like there can be certain acting elements even that
come into what we do.

117
00:11:06,870 --> 00:11:08,630
A hundred percent.

118
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:17,850
And where it can get dicey, I think, for some people is when you feel like you
are playing a character

119
00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:24,270
online and you are losing yourself in that character.

120
00:11:24,420 --> 00:11:34,290
And so, a question that I always ask, even just my friends, when we're talking
about social media, whether they use it for business reasons or

121
00:11:34,290 --> 00:11:41,340
for personal reasons, a question that I ask is, "Do you feel like you're
playing a character when you're on social media?

122
00:11:41,340 --> 00:11:44,640
And how are you intending to show up?"

123
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:53,250
Something that always kind of weirds me out is when I meet someone - whether
it's over the Zooms or if it's in real

124
00:11:53,250 --> 00:12:03,250
life - and they are not at all the way that they project themselves to

125
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:05,140
be online.

126
00:12:05,230 --> 00:12:15,190
And I'm like, "Well, that's interesting." And this isn't even like they
face-tuned themselves or they're super made up all the time

127
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:17,950
in their pictures, whatever.

128
00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:22,960
It's more who are you projecting yourself to be?

129
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,230
Who are you convincing people you are?

130
00:12:26,530 --> 00:12:32,950
And how okay are you with the ramifications that that will have?

131
00:12:32,950 --> 00:12:42,340
Because social media and the internet is a huge part of our lives now that it
will have ramifications and implications in your real life, how okay are you
with

132
00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:51,710
that either level of connection that people have to you or that level of
disconnect that people may feel from you?

133
00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:53,830
Because it can go in either way.

134
00:12:54,010 --> 00:13:00,340
There are some people who feel as if they need to share, and I've been this
person for sure.

135
00:13:00,340 --> 00:13:09,010
I've been on both ends of the spectrum where I felt like I need to share every
single little piece of my life and I have zero boundaries in

136
00:13:09,010 --> 00:13:10,570
place.

137
00:13:10,570 --> 00:13:16,870
And what that ended up doing was it opened up conversations with people that I
actually didn't want to have.

138
00:13:17,260 --> 00:13:19,990
It felt too intimate. That felt too close to the heart.

139
00:13:20,170 --> 00:13:29,890
But I felt like in order to be "authentic", I needed to give all my goods on
the

140
00:13:30,010 --> 00:13:38,690
internet. And so, now, what I put into place is that I share what feels
personal, not what feels intimate.

141
00:13:38,690 --> 00:13:42,400
And that boundary, that line, is always changing.

142
00:13:42,690 --> 00:13:47,620
And that's something that has been a helpful, useful guiding force for me.

143
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:51,830
I really like that, it feels personal but not intimate.

144
00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:53,080
That's really a good way to put it.

145
00:13:53,080 --> 00:14:00,880
I feel like I say this every other episode, but my friend, Naomi, from the
Lifestyle Edit, she always says people are entitled to parts of you, but not all
of you.

146
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:08,320
And I always think that's a helpful way for me to think of it as like, I don't
share all parts of my life or even all parts of something that's going on.

147
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,470
Like, I've shared openly that my dad is dying of cancer.

148
00:14:11,470 --> 00:14:17,310
And I've shared openly about this, but I don't share hardly anything about
what's actually happening.

149
00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:19,600
Not any like lie-y kind of way.

150
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,470
To me, you just need to know the basics of what's happening.

151
00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:25,780
You don't need to know all the intimate details.

152
00:14:25,780 --> 00:14:32,530
So, I think, like you're saying, it's such a hard line to draw, but also it's
a fluid line.

153
00:14:32,530 --> 00:14:39,430
These things keep changing as our lives keep changing, as the apps themselves
keep changing and how people use them as well.

154
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:42,670
But we'll get into it because I have so much to ask you about it.

155
00:14:42,670 --> 00:14:51,910
But I'm so curious, so from Katie doing commercials, and acting, and being on
stage, and then starting to do fitness and group

156
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:55,960
classes, how did self-talk first come into your life?

157
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,870
Where did that enter the picture on a professional level?

158
00:14:59,230 --> 00:15:03,090
Oh, goodness. That's a great distinction, on a professional level.

159
00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:12,670
Because if you go back into my journals, there are homes that I wrote myself
when I was

160
00:15:12,850 --> 00:15:15,670
12, 13.

161
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:25,420
And I look back now and I'm like, "This is not very far from the stuff that I'm
writing about now." And I think that I

162
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:35,350
was always highly, highly aware and attuned to what was going on around me, and
what was going on within me, and how those

163
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:37,690
two intersected.

164
00:15:37,690 --> 00:15:47,350
And I think that as you're growing up, if you're someone who grows up with hyper
awareness, with really big feelings, sometimes it's hard to

165
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:56,570
figure out what actually is something that you want to stand behind, what's
going on.

166
00:15:56,570 --> 00:15:58,390
You're figuring out like, "Okay.

167
00:15:58,390 --> 00:16:00,950
Well, who's in charge here, almost?

168
00:16:00,950 --> 00:16:05,470
Because you're feeling strongly about certain things.

169
00:16:05,470 --> 00:16:07,970
You're forming your own opinions and your observations.

170
00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:16,030
And then, you have a whole world around you that is telling you what to think,
how to act, how to look, and who to be.

171
00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:21,070
And I'm not just talking about the people who are in your household.

172
00:16:21,070 --> 00:16:27,950
I'm talking about these strangers that you see on the street, their body
language, the media that you're consuming.

173
00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:32,620
This all comes in on a conscious and a subconscious level 24/7.

174
00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:37,060
And we're so receptive when we're younger.

175
00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:38,200
Like, we're sponges.

176
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,160
We're sponging it all up because we're trying to make sense of the world.

177
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:52,090
And the way that that entered my life in a professional sense is, really,

178
00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:58,000
when I started to get interested in fitness as a career.

179
00:16:58,150 --> 00:17:05,740
And to be completely honest with you, it intersected with my acting life.

180
00:17:05,740 --> 00:17:15,460
Because as an actor, by necessity, you need to get another job because it's a
gig

181
00:17:16,180 --> 00:17:22,900
career for the majority of people who don't know when the next gig is going to
come, and you need to have a way to make money.

182
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:26,060
And so, I was someone who I had worked retail.

183
00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:28,220
I had done restaurant work.

184
00:17:28,220 --> 00:17:31,510
And I was like, I don't want to do that.

185
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:35,050
I need to do something that is at least a little bit related.

186
00:17:35,050 --> 00:17:45,040
And talking about the game, I didn't want to play the game of working as a
receptionist in an agency and then working my way up or

187
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:50,700
networking. Which, there are many people who have done that and that's perfect
for them.

188
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:55,120
For the person that I am and the way that I take in the world, that was not the
right path for me.

189
00:17:55,120 --> 00:18:01,360
And I was like, "Well, cool." And this is before it was a cool thing to do.

190
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:07,780
I could be a group fitness instructor, get to be on a stage, get to move with
music.

191
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,690
You know, it's very much like dancing.

192
00:18:10,690 --> 00:18:12,430
My specialty is that I teach indoor cycling.

193
00:18:12,430 --> 00:18:13,580
I teach spinning.

194
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:15,850
And so, I get to curate playlists.

195
00:18:15,850 --> 00:18:17,380
I get to curate a mood.

196
00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:19,320
I get to craft and experience.

197
00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:29,110
And this is something that I can, basically, have job security no matter where
my acting world takes me, because there will

198
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:38,350
always be gyms and community centers, there will never not be a time where
there are not people who want to make

199
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:41,770
movement a part of their lives.

200
00:18:41,770 --> 00:18:50,980
And what I started to realize is that the way that people talk to

201
00:18:51,670 --> 00:19:01,540
an audience, and the way that people talk to themselves, and the way that those
intersect in a group fitness environment is really, really powerful.

202
00:19:01,570 --> 00:19:11,170
And I was noticing the ways that, not just my inner dialogue/monologue was
being affected by

203
00:19:11,860 --> 00:19:21,760
the different classes that I would take, and the different instructors that I
would take, and the way that the music affected me, but I would see how that
would affect other people in

204
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:30,130
class or friends or family members, and the way that they would not only talk
about themselves or their

205
00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:37,450
bodies being good, being bad, the narrative of working off stuff.

206
00:19:37,450 --> 00:19:46,960
But I also noticed how that would work its way into people's conversations
outside of a fitness realm, with myself included.

207
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:56,640
And it was really during the time where I struggled with multiple different
eating and body related disorders.

208
00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:06,640
Orthorexia was the big one, to flirting with anorexia, flirting with exercise
bulimia, laxatives, all the different things

209
00:20:07,330 --> 00:20:15,880
. And a lot of the conversation around those types of mental illnesses in the
early

210
00:20:16,150 --> 00:20:25,660
2000s, first of all, they know eating disorders were widely mainstream-ly
referred to as

211
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,040
mental illnesses.

212
00:20:27,070 --> 00:20:29,480
It's about food and it's about your body.

213
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,930
Which, eating disorders and body related disorders, they are mental illness.

214
00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:45,140
And because of that, there weren't a lot of resources for me to tap into to
address exactly what was going on with me.

215
00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:48,190
Because I was like, "Well, but I'm not doing this.

216
00:20:48,190 --> 00:20:53,950
I'm not doing this, but I am doing these other things." So, it's like, "Where
do I even go?

217
00:20:53,950 --> 00:20:54,880
Where do I even fit in?"

218
00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:04,690
And because I had that hyper awareness, that hypersensitivity, I realized that I
really needed to use that as

219
00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:07,190
my biggest ally in the moment.

220
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:16,900
And I was like, I need to understand what is going on around me, and what's
going on inside me, and how those intersect, and how that is

221
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,790
triggering me in certain instances.

222
00:21:19,810 --> 00:21:29,080
And so, I'm kind of backtracking a little bit from where we just were in the
fitness industry, but I realized that a lot of the

223
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:38,560
conversations that I would hear, again, not just from family or friends, but
just from the world around me, were a lot of people bonding over

224
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:45,340
negativity and self-deprecation as emotionless as saying, "Oh.

225
00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:47,140
The sky is blue," or, "Oh.

226
00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:53,110
I think I'm going to wear a dress today," talking about their body, their
capability, their worth.

227
00:21:53,140 --> 00:22:02,560
And I realized that it was this language that we were using to bond and to gain
acceptance, really.

228
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:12,280
And there's been studies now that have been done that actually have proved that
bonding over negativity,

229
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:21,970
whether you're talking negatively about yourself or gossiping about other
people, it is a way to build trust with other people.

230
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,340
It doesn't have the best ramifications, but it's a way to build trust.

231
00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:30,310
And so, I realized that was happening.

232
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:39,370
And then, once I became a fitness instructor, I realized that that was actually
a really powerful avenue to

233
00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:48,130
help start an internal conversation with people that maybe they wouldn't be
receptive to in another environment.

234
00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:57,370
Because when you're working out, when you're moving your body, whether it's
doing yoga or you're going on a run or whatever you're doing, you're putting
your body through a state

235
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:58,930
of stress.

236
00:22:58,930 --> 00:23:00,780
And not all stress is bad stress.

237
00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:04,430
But you're putting your body through a state of stress and so you get into a
vulnerable state.

238
00:23:04,430 --> 00:23:13,120
And when you're vulnerable, you are more receptive to what is being handed to
you, what is being fed to you.

239
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:18,570
And so, I realized that fitness was a really powerful way to get that across.

240
00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:27,520
And at that same time, this all, literally, happened within a matter of maybe
five months.

241
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:35,950
At that same time, that was when the Dove Real Body's commercial started to
come out.

242
00:23:35,950 --> 00:23:45,640
Do you remember those first commercials, where it was, like, a line of women, 
they're all different ages, stages of life, races,

243
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:52,420
body types, and they're all wearing basically white underwear or a tank top
bra.

244
00:23:53,350 --> 00:24:01,010
And the commercial, at the time, it was incredibly revolutionary because that
was the first commercial of its kind.

245
00:24:01,010 --> 00:24:10,060
A major commercial that was about body acceptance, and loving yourself, and
loving your body, and using that.

246
00:24:10,060 --> 00:24:12,640
They didn't even show the product.

247
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,770
It wasn't like, "I love my body.

248
00:24:14,770 --> 00:24:18,880
I'm putting on this lotion." It was like, "Here's what we stand for as a
business."

249
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:23,260
And I remember seeing that when I was on vacation with my family.

250
00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:31,360
I'm working through this eating disorder, body related disorder, mental illness
stuff.

251
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:38,050
I am getting interested in the way that fitness can be used to help people and
not harm people.

252
00:24:38,050 --> 00:24:47,690
And I see this commercial and I was like, "This is the most amazing thing that
I've ever seen." This should be a larger conversation,

253
00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:53,420
because, also, you can't just look in the mirror all the time and say, "I love
myself.

254
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,150
I'm beautiful."

255
00:24:56,150 --> 00:25:03,260
So, there should be something that helps people when they can't look at
themselves and say, "I love myself.

256
00:25:03,260 --> 00:25:12,900
I'm beautiful." I'm going to start something that helps people when they can't
just look at

257
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:15,480
themselves in the mirror and say, "I love myself.

258
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,430
I'm beautiful." And I'm going to call it WANT, it's going to be called Women
Against Negative Talk.

259
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:22,830
Like, all of that happened at the same time.

260
00:25:22,830 --> 00:25:24,390
I thought of the name. I thought of the acronym.

261
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:26,490
I thought of the thing.

262
00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:36,360
And I know that that you've talked about this when you started your health
coaching business, and you talked about this on your podcast, about

263
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:42,360
people starting things from a very personal place and a personal need.

264
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:44,930
And that's a great thing.

265
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:46,080
That's a great why.

266
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:51,030
That's a great origin story of your business.

267
00:25:51,030 --> 00:26:01,020
At the time, that was 2007, 2008, I had no idea about starting

268
00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:07,130
a business. I thought it meant putting up a website and selling t-shirts, and I
wasn't trying to start a t-shirt business.

269
00:26:07,130 --> 00:26:08,700
So, I did those things.

270
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:18,570
But I realized later on - because it fizzled out the first time, sort of went
into the background - that I had thought of the thing that I

271
00:26:18,990 --> 00:26:26,160
so deeply needed in that moment, 2007-2008 Katie, need and want so badly.

272
00:26:26,340 --> 00:26:31,590
However, I didn't know how to deliver on that.

273
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:35,280
I just knew that this was this thing that I wanted to see.

274
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:45,000
And so, even though that sort of faded into the background from a business
perspective, that led me to exploring

275
00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:55,350
what is it about self-talk that I actually believe in, stand behind, want to
learn more about, what do I know, what do I not know, where do I

276
00:26:55,350 --> 00:27:02,100
see the gaps, what do I get angry about when I see it talked about in other
places.

277
00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:12,810
And that led to whether it was through fitness or through - I was an editor for
a wellness lifestyle magazine for a while

278
00:27:13,830 --> 00:27:16,440
-wherever my career took me.

279
00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:26,490
I always had in the back of my mind this idea of, "Well, what's really the most
important is the story that we're

280
00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:31,180
telling ourselves all of the time about ourselves.

281
00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:41,010
And not just from a feel good place, but from a very urgent place." Like, I
really, from early on, started to

282
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:49,270
believe and see evidence of the way that we talk to ourselves about ourselves
isn't just about us.

283
00:27:49,290 --> 00:27:57,720
That also informs how we view other people, how we relate to other people, how
we take ourselves out into the world.

284
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,290
And so, everything that I did had that in the background.

285
00:28:01,290 --> 00:28:10,580
And sort of streamlining ahead now to 2013, 2014, I had this feeling of

286
00:28:11,270 --> 00:28:12,770
I'm supposed to be doing more.

287
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,680
I was sitting behind a desk for most of the day.

288
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:20,220
I was commuting a ridiculous amount of hours.

289
00:28:20,220 --> 00:28:29,840
And I was teaching fitness early in the morning, late at night, because I felt
so passionate about being able to be on a stage in community with people,

290
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:36,350
and helping to spark this dialogue in people, and getting feedback on what
actually was working for people.

291
00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:40,010
And I started to feel like I'm supposed to be doing something more.

292
00:28:40,010 --> 00:28:41,540
I'm supposed to be doing something more.

293
00:28:41,570 --> 00:28:51,050
And what I realized is that as I was doing more work in the wellness realm,

294
00:28:51,680 --> 00:29:01,610
the way that people were talking about self-talk or your inner voice, there
were still so much that was so problematic about it and continues to be
problematic

295
00:29:02,180 --> 00:29:10,630
about it, where you're villainizing part of yourself, calling it your inner
mean girl, your inner critic, all of these names.

296
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:14,910
Like, calling your inner voice jerk face or something.

297
00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:19,460
And that works for some people, but it doesn't work for everybody.

298
00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:27,110
And, also, a lot of people were talking about it as only relating to your body
and to your body image.

299
00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:36,140
And what I was seeing was that the way that people talk to themselves, that
affected their, like I said,

300
00:29:36,140 --> 00:29:46,040
relationships, their career, the way that they spoke out about things that they
felt passionately about, or injustices they were seeing in

301
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,940
either their neighborhood or the world at large.

302
00:29:49,940 --> 00:29:58,960
And I realized that this idea that I had had seven years before, that I was
actually on the right track, and that

303
00:29:59,590 --> 00:30:03,900
from what I could tell and what I could gather, no one had created it yet.

304
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:14,230
And I was like, "This is what you're supposed to be doing." And I had the
technical expertise and the professional know-how to be able to

305
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:17,490
start something up at that point.

306
00:30:17,490 --> 00:30:19,930
I knew more of what I wanted to create.

307
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:26,710
And I also knew that I had separated myself.

308
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:36,610
I had enough separation from the me that needed that so much, and the person who
was able to support and, hopefully,

309
00:30:36,610 --> 00:30:46,150
help that person that I was actually able to, hopefully, be the person that I
needed when I was

310
00:30:46,150 --> 00:30:55,920
younger without taking things to heart so personally, especially when so much
of the business

311
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,520
lives in the online space.

312
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:08,160
I was able to create the separation for myself because I had gotten to a point
where, if I got a nasty

313
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:14,480
comment, that wasn't going to send me back into restriction and bingeing mode.

314
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,410
It wasn't going to send me back into self-deprecation, self-doubting mode.

315
00:31:19,410 --> 00:31:28,800
So, really being aware of what I wanted to create and where I was mentally, that
is something that I have

316
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:38,780
credited in huge part - in the grand scheme of things, it's a blip in time - to
the longevity

317
00:31:38,780 --> 00:31:48,570
of my business now as someone who is an advocate for really, truly

318
00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:54,600
positive, proactive self-talk and rewriting that internal narrative.

319
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,480
I love seeing how your journey unfolded.

320
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:08,280
And I can really relate to wanting to build a business that you felt like would
have been supportive to you, but didn't

321
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,720
exist. And I think it'll be so helpful for people to hear too.

322
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:20,200
Like, I talk a lot about how sometimes when we're on the journey, we don't
exactly know where we're headed, but that it all ends up being so valuable.

323
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:28,290
And so, it just sounds to me like every piece of your story in every direction
that you went was for a reason, and it ended up helping.

324
00:32:28,290 --> 00:32:32,340
It's like market research without you even thinking of it that way at the time.

325
00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:42,330
Sometimes we try to force this so bad, like, "I need to have ten calls with
people to understand what issues are with self-talk." And it's like you were
just kind of doing this in real time, but you didn't even

326
00:32:42,330 --> 00:32:43,640
know it.

327
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:51,250
And you saw a need for this, both because of your own experience and from others
and the real feedback you were getting on the ground, too.

328
00:32:51,270 --> 00:32:52,590
So, I love that.

329
00:32:53,460 --> 00:32:54,930
I think it's so interesting.

330
00:32:54,930 --> 00:33:04,320
But I was curious what you think, too, about you've been in the game long enough
to know what changes have happened or what changes have you

331
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:10,680
seen since the use of social media has just gotten so much bigger.

332
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:16,000
When you started and you were dipping your toes into this, Instagram wasn't even
really a thing.

333
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,510
And then, definitely Story wasn't at all.

334
00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:20,120
And then, Facebook was hardly a thing.

335
00:33:20,130 --> 00:33:23,460
And then, you know, there was no such thing as stories and now reels.

336
00:33:23,460 --> 00:33:30,660
And everything feels like this giant competition and the goals are to go viral,
or I don't know what other goals people have.

337
00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:39,670
But I'm just curious what you think about how social media now affects - I feel
like it's such a big question and we'll break it down - our self-talk?

338
00:33:39,670 --> 00:33:40,140
Let me count the ways.

339
00:33:41,130 --> 00:33:50,370
That's such a big question and it could be like a three part podcast series.

340
00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:57,860
I mean, social media, you're right, when I first had that seed of an idea, all
there was, was Facebook.

341
00:33:57,870 --> 00:34:07,140
And it's actually kind of cool, like Facebook will show you "On this day." I
have that post just when I launched

342
00:34:07,140 --> 00:34:10,680
WANT back in however long.

343
00:34:10,770 --> 00:34:16,940
I still have in my desk drawers my old business cards.

344
00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:18,750
I have my old t-shirts.

345
00:34:18,750 --> 00:34:21,260
I have a tote bag that I made.

346
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:22,810
I've got all this stuff.

347
00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:28,530
But, yeah, social media was a blip.

348
00:34:28,530 --> 00:34:38,280
And I think that there's two directions that your question can go, and you can
tell me which one you'd like me

349
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,480
to explore.

350
00:34:39,690 --> 00:34:48,330
The first one is how social media has affected our self-talk personally just as
a whole and as humans.

351
00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:57,270
And then, the other side is how social media has affected - which I think was
maybe a little subtext in your question -

352
00:34:59,010 --> 00:35:05,340
our self-talk around whatever we are creating professionally.

353
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:09,050
I like both ideas.

354
00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:18,800
But I'm thinking that so many people in the audience are feeling - because I get
these messages and I'm sure you do too - when they get on social media

355
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:26,390
- because my audiences are all business owners or soon to be business owners - 
and then they're like, "Shoot.

356
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:30,500
Everybody is already doing what I want to do." or "Shoot.

357
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:40,410
She's pretty or she's thinner and she's successful." Therefore, they also make
attachment to that like a meaning attachment of she's successful because

358
00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:41,580
she's pretty and thin.

359
00:35:41,610 --> 00:35:43,440
"I don't find myself to be those things.

360
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,110
Therefore, I won't be successful." We get a lot of those kinds of things.

361
00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:52,080
As well as, obviously, comparison, and imposter, and all of the standard things.

362
00:35:52,080 --> 00:36:01,920
But to the person listening who has her own business, and goes on social media,
and probably feels like crap from time to time, if not every time, they're using
social

363
00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:11,690
media, I'm just so curious what you would say to them about how we work with
self-talk, and how we improve this, and flex this muscle more if we want to.

364
00:36:11,690 --> 00:36:17,580
While, also, as I said when I was just on your podcast, it's a choice for us to
be on social media.

365
00:36:17,580 --> 00:36:21,520
And so, they are choosing to be on social media.

366
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,420
How can we do this in a healthier way?

367
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:26,640
A hundred percent.

368
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:35,740
So, I believe that, just like in life with any relationship, boundaries are
important.

369
00:36:35,740 --> 00:36:40,730
And I said it earlier, I share what is personal, not what is intimate.

370
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:43,740
That's one of my core boundaries.

371
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:51,160
And, also, I think that it's really important to decide, "Okay.

372
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,950
Well, what do I want to get out of this experience.

373
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:57,170
How do I want to feel?

374
00:36:57,170 --> 00:37:01,230
And what is contributing to the feelings that I'm actually feeling?"

375
00:37:01,230 --> 00:37:11,010
So, before even the acting and

376
00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:13,120
everything, I thought I was going to be an animator for Disney.

377
00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:15,990
I am a visual artist.

378
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:17,160
I draw. I paint.

379
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,440
I craft. I do all of those things.

380
00:37:19,450 --> 00:37:22,630
I do a lot of artsy things.

381
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:30,660
And I like to view social media as one big art project, or scrapbook, or
journal.

382
00:37:31,470 --> 00:37:39,090
And, to me, that's something that allows a little bit of separation for me.

383
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:49,500
And what is really interesting about that is, once I've defined how I want
social media to be for me, then

384
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:59,460
I can start to look at what are the things or what are the actions that I'm
taking or the stuff that I'm seeing that's

385
00:37:59,460 --> 00:38:06,300
actually making me feel the way that I don't want to feel that is preventing me
from feeling that way.

386
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:16,110
And I think for a lot of people, myself included at times, the numbers can
really mess with your head, how many likes you get on a

387
00:38:16,110 --> 00:38:24,480
certain post, or how many likes you see someone else got on a post, and how
many followers you have, or how many followers they have.

388
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,940
And there are certain advantages.

389
00:38:28,940 --> 00:38:37,710
I'm a realist, I recognize that with a certain amount of followers or
engagement, that does allow you certain

390
00:38:37,710 --> 00:38:43,110
opportunities with brands, with partnerships, if that's what you're after.

391
00:38:43,110 --> 00:38:51,030
And if that's what you're after, I believe that you can't really get mad at that
game.

392
00:38:52,230 --> 00:39:01,590
And if it's affecting your mental health so much, you have to ask yourself, "Is
that the game that I want to keep playing?" For

393
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:08,430
example, I do not - and have not for a while now - have sponsors on the
WANTcast.

394
00:39:08,430 --> 00:39:09,520
And I used to.

395
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,980
And I've worked with some fantastic sponsors and some amazing brands.

396
00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:23,190
Like, some of the brands that I've worked with, I developed relationships with
the founders and I'm so grateful for them.

397
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:33,080
And I also realized that if I wanted to get deeper into that game - I don't know
if people realize this -

398
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:38,940
there are agencies that work with brands on getting ad placements.

399
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:48,690
And what ends up happening is that you work with this agency or you work with
the brand, and you basically need to give them

400
00:39:49,260 --> 00:39:59,220
the number that they can expect as far as how many people you think will listen
to the episode in a given amount of

401
00:39:59,220 --> 00:40:07,740
time. Like, there's a lot of metrics involved - and it's business - because
they want to know that they're making a worthwhile investment.

402
00:40:07,740 --> 00:40:17,640
And for me and for the way that I want to run the WANTcast, the Women Against
Negative Talk podcast, I am someone

403
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,000
who I want to be able to be fluid with it.

404
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:29,340
Because I started the podcast when I was still working that full-time job,
commuting ridiculous hours, teaching morning and night.

405
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:35,220
I published once every three weeks, because that was the schedule that worked
for me.

406
00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:37,860
I've also published every single week.

407
00:40:37,860 --> 00:40:39,990
I've also published every other week.

408
00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:49,800
I've been going through just some mental health struggles with anxiety and
feeling depressed over the last few months, which I think many people

409
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:56,340
have. Sometimes I have a once a month schedule.

410
00:40:56,340 --> 00:40:59,900
And I realized that that was more important to me.

411
00:40:59,910 --> 00:41:04,740
For me, consistency with the podcast meant doing it.

412
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,730
Period. And that was what was most important to me.

413
00:41:08,730 --> 00:41:18,600
And because of that, I was not willing to force it to happen and start to
resent it for ad placement

414
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:20,630
and for being able to report those numbers.

415
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:30,390
And so, I was like, "I'm going to let go of the numbers for the podcast and I'm
going to let go of the sponsorships because that is

416
00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:39,750
not something that is going to get me to keep doing this in the long run." And
so, relating it back to social media,

417
00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:51,330
whether it's the amount of times that you post or the amount of followers you
have versus someone else versus the amount of likes you have versus someone
else, if that's something that is

418
00:41:51,750 --> 00:42:01,710
holding you back and wearing you down on, not just a mental health level, but
a business level

419
00:42:01,710 --> 00:42:10,680
of actually doing the thing that you want to do and achieving goals that you
want to achieve, then start to look at what actually matters.

420
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:17,060
And as far as metrics goes, which of these are what many people would call
vanity metrics.

421
00:42:17,060 --> 00:42:21,120
Metrics that just make me feel really good but they're not actually moving the
needle.

422
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,700
And which of these actually do matter are moving the needle.

423
00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:36,210
As far as looking at other people and seeing what other people are doing or
making assumptions about their business and how good they are, how bad you are,
whatever's going on with the

424
00:42:36,210 --> 00:42:46,020
self-talk there, what I would say is, first of all, getting clear, again, on
why you are

425
00:42:46,020 --> 00:42:53,010
there and who you are showing up to be, who you want to show up to be, that is
so important.

426
00:42:53,010 --> 00:42:57,410
A lot of times I will work with my one-on-one clients.

427
00:42:57,420 --> 00:43:01,920
I'll work with them at the very get-go, no matter what they come to me with.

428
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:08,520
Because I have people who want to leave their corporate job and start their own
business.

429
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:15,090
I have people who are going on interviews and they want to do really well on
their interviews.

430
00:43:15,090 --> 00:43:23,640
I have people who want to more just shift their mindset around the way that
they relate to certain aspects of their

431
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,110
life.

432
00:43:25,110 --> 00:43:29,260
Usually, I have them start out with what I call defining your through line.

433
00:43:29,260 --> 00:43:34,950
Which is, some people would say defining your purpose or your mission.

434
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:45,180
I like to think of it as a little more simple and at the same time all
encompassing the common theme in everything you

435
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:48,010
love and the common goal in everything you do.

436
00:43:48,030 --> 00:43:56,400
And it's a little statement, a few words, it doesn't have to be in your
LinkedIn profile or your Instagram bio or on your resume.

437
00:43:56,430 --> 00:44:04,200
It's just a way for you to come back to who you are and what you stand for.

438
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:13,470
And what I have found, both with myself and with others, friends, colleagues,
clients, is that, when we're not

439
00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:21,110
solid in our through line, then we start to look for that from other people.

440
00:44:21,110 --> 00:44:22,710
Because we think like, "Oh, well.

441
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:24,090
I don't know the answer.

442
00:44:24,090 --> 00:44:28,670
So, maybe they have the answer." And it comes from a great place.

443
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:34,170
I believe that self-talk inherently isn't good or bad.

444
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,640
It's information.

445
00:44:35,790 --> 00:44:44,460
And what's really interesting going back to, like, calling your negative
self-talk, your inner critic, or your inner

446
00:44:44,460 --> 00:44:49,410
bully is that that part of you actually wants to help you out.

447
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:56,160
It has a motivation and a reason for being there that is for your greater
good.

448
00:44:56,710 --> 00:45:00,000
It's just it's tactics are not the best.

449
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,730
They're either outdated or they're just not working.

450
00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:15,120
So, what would be interesting, I wonder if someone is listening to this podcast
and is that person who's looking to other

451
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:24,540
people and comparing themselves to other people or making up a story about the
other people and how they relate to that other person, I wonder what would
happen

452
00:45:25,110 --> 00:45:34,080
if you asked yourself what that part of you is trying to accomplish by making
those

453
00:45:34,260 --> 00:45:37,230
comparisons or telling those stories?

454
00:45:37,410 --> 00:45:47,100
Is it that that part of you is looking for a sense of certainty, or a sense of
safety, or a

455
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:49,740
sense of validation?

456
00:45:49,740 --> 00:45:59,700
Maybe that part of you is looking to other people and actually picking apart the
other people and saying, "Well, that person isn't doing that the way that I
would do it," but you're actually not

457
00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:02,270
really sure about the way that you would do it.

458
00:46:02,270 --> 00:46:07,320
But it's much easier if that part of you is like, "Well, I want to lift you up.

459
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:09,780
I want to make you feel better about yourself.

460
00:46:10,350 --> 00:46:19,170
So, let's go and let's look for ways that other people are not doing things the
way that you agree with."

461
00:46:19,170 --> 00:46:29,070
And so, trying to find out what that motive is and then figuring out how can I
get it in a different way is

462
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:39,680
a nuanced, and intricate, and effective way to actually start to shift that
self-talk for the

463
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:49,340
long run. Because, while affirmations and mantras can work for some people, and
they can

464
00:46:49,340 --> 00:46:59,030
take a phrase like, "I am strong" or "I am worthy," and leave it at that, for
many of us, we need a lot more

465
00:46:59,030 --> 00:47:07,010
proof to actually be able to believe I am strong, I am worthy, I am talented.

466
00:47:07,010 --> 00:47:16,550
And so, being able to look at what you're doing and looking at your methods,
look at your past, look at different aspects of your life, and

467
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:26,450
starting to either gather proof or figure out how can I create a proof point
for myself, that is what

468
00:47:26,450 --> 00:47:35,780
will actually start to make those affirmations - which, I don't even really
use the word affirmations - those reminders to yourself

469
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:40,850
actually believable and anchor you in who you are.

470
00:47:46,550 --> 00:47:51,180
Have you ever felt lost about where to begin with the legal side of protecting
your online business?

471
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,710
Some people say you can just wing it at the beginning and get officially set up
later.

472
00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:57,050
Not a good idea, by the way.

473
00:47:57,050 --> 00:48:07,040
Whether you're afraid to even start working with clients because you don't want
to do something wrong legally and then get in trouble or your business is
growing and you sort of forgot to take care of the legal

474
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,110
pieces, I've got you.

475
00:48:09,110 --> 00:48:18,680
I don't want you to live in fear of the internet police coming after you and
your business, but you do have to do certain things and get certain things in
place in order to legally and safely run your business

476
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:26,030
online. As much as it just feels like an unregulated Wild Wild West online,
that is very much not the case.

477
00:48:26,030 --> 00:48:31,050
As an attorney turned entrepreneur and former corporate litigator, I can assure
you that there are rules.

478
00:48:31,050 --> 00:48:36,080
There are real steps that everybody who runs or starts an online business needs
to take.

479
00:48:36,350 --> 00:48:38,180
And you're not behind at all.

480
00:48:38,180 --> 00:48:40,570
We can get you set up and following the rules right away.

481
00:48:40,580 --> 00:48:42,440
In fact, we can even do it today.

482
00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:47,690
I want to teach you the five very simple steps to take to legally protect and
grow your online business.

483
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:57,290
You don't need an MBA to be a successful entrepreneur and stay out of legal hot
water, but you do need to dot your legal I's and cross your T's in a few key
areas that can't be skipped.

484
00:48:57,290 --> 00:49:03,390
That's exactly what I'll teach you in my free one hour legal workshop called
Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business.

485
00:49:03,410 --> 00:49:11,720
Just head to mylegalworkshop.com, drop in your email address, pick the time, and
I'll send you a link to watch the workshop video whenever you have time.

486
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:21,710
This is the best place to begin if you're just getting started legally
legitimizing your business, so head on over to mylegalworkshop.com and sign up
to watch Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your

487
00:49:21,710 --> 00:49:28,580
Online Business now.

488
00:49:28,580 --> 00:49:38,180
Especially when it comes to social media, I often think of myself as sort of a
plant that has to have pretty strong

489
00:49:38,180 --> 00:49:47,960
roots. And I think sometimes I'm like a plant in the middle of a field and I
have these roots, and social media is kind of like the wind, and the rain, and
the snow, and all the stuff that

490
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:49,120
comes around that.

491
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:58,790
If you don't have roots or very strong roots and a strong foundation, it would
be very easy for the plant to fall over, for a branch to break off, all these
kinds of things.

492
00:49:58,790 --> 00:50:08,240
And so, when I go on social media and I start doing that and I start having
these feelings come up, I just think like this is an opportunity for me to not
look to this

493
00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:09,790
outside of myself.

494
00:50:09,790 --> 00:50:17,920
To look at strengthening my own root system so that I'm not so malleable, so
that when the strong wind blows, I don't just blow over.

495
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,360
Like, having that strong core, for lack of a better term.

496
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,790
Yeah. A hundred percent.

497
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:32,420
And, you know, I think that also when it comes to social media and your
interactions with social media, I

498
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:34,430
love a mute button.

499
00:50:34,990 --> 00:50:44,990
If unfollowing feels weird, then there is no harm in muting

500
00:50:44,990 --> 00:50:54,830
someone, even if you love them in real life, maybe they're your best friend, 
but the way that you interact with

501
00:50:54,830 --> 00:51:04,300
them on social media - and by interact, I mean holding up your phone and
scrolling and seeing their posts, and reading and looking at the pictures - if
that

502
00:51:04,910 --> 00:51:14,720
is triggering self-doubt, or self-deprecation, or it's making you be

503
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:24,530
mean to yourself, or feel down over and over and over again, I think that it's
really valuable for us to start to reframe

504
00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:34,970
the act of muting someone, unfollowing someone, never following someone in the
first place, as a way to preserve the

505
00:51:34,970 --> 00:51:37,520
relationship that you actually want to have.

506
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:45,140
You do not owe anyone a follow on social media.

507
00:51:46,910 --> 00:51:55,870
If that's the thing that's going to make or break your relationship that you're
following the person or not following the person, then it's like, how strong is
the relationship to begin with?

508
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:05,750
So, I know that I have people in my life, whether they're colleagues or friends
or family members, there's people who I have

509
00:52:05,750 --> 00:52:08,120
followed and then muted and then followed.

510
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:17,870
And I have that relationship with social media in place because I value the
actual relationship that I

511
00:52:17,870 --> 00:52:23,470
want to have with the person.

512
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:31,100
Everybody, also, it's really important to recognize - and I'm kind of going off
on a tangent right now because I'm getting really, really pumped up and fired up
about this.

513
00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:36,700
We also have to realize that everybody is using social media for different
reasons.

514
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:46,610
And someone who is hosting all of their wins, and all of their celebrations, and
all of this amazing stuff that they're

515
00:52:46,610 --> 00:52:53,570
doing on social media, if you are starting to feel triggered by that, there's
so much there.

516
00:52:53,570 --> 00:52:55,000
First of all, that's not a them thing.

517
00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:57,140
That's a you thing.

518
00:52:57,140 --> 00:53:06,410
And that also begs the question of why don't we think it's okay to celebrate our
wins or to celebrate other people's wins

519
00:53:07,610 --> 00:53:17,390
. And what if they are struggling through a deep, dark time in their lives, and
the

520
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:25,880
way that they're using social media is a tool to remind themselves of the good
that actually exists in their lives.

521
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:32,570
We never know what is going on and what the reasoning is behind why someone is
using social media.

522
00:53:32,570 --> 00:53:42,290
And so, I think allowing the person grace and allowing ourselves to put whatever
boundaries

523
00:53:42,740 --> 00:53:52,160
in place we need is really, really important to not develop resentment of
someone else or resentment of yourself.

524
00:53:52,580 --> 00:54:01,780
I always encourage people during those moments to be introspective and be like,
"Do you share every single moment that's going on in your life?

525
00:54:01,780 --> 00:54:08,900
Well, why is it any different for them?" Just because they have a big platform
or something like this, you don't share that either.

526
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:10,960
So, sometimes like a "Oh, yeah.

527
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,160
That's right" moment.

528
00:54:12,170 --> 00:54:14,940
It's a little disorienting.

529
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:19,070
But you're right, I mean, everybody comes to social with different goals and
objectives.

530
00:54:20,060 --> 00:54:24,910
But also to your point, too, like some people might have different pressures on
themselves if they have sponsors.

531
00:54:24,910 --> 00:54:34,780
I know someone in particular who has a very large platform and can't talk about
certain things because of sponsorship opportunities, different business
opportunities, their business partner, all

532
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:37,400
this kind of stuff. There's just so many things.

533
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:46,880
And to your point earlier about how you've met people in real life who turned
out to not maybe be like it was like they were acting on social media, I feel
like I've had the same experience where I've judged

534
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,810
someone negatively because of what I've seen.

535
00:54:49,810 --> 00:54:57,710
And then, I meet them in real life and find out they're really a normal person
who has all these other interesting things about them or difficult things
they've been going through.

536
00:54:57,710 --> 00:55:03,220
Or I'll share with them what's going on with my dad and they're like, "Oh, my
parent actually had cancer too." And like, "Wow.

537
00:55:03,220 --> 00:55:10,310
I thought your life was totally perfect because of whatever I see." But those
are always wake up calls to remember.

538
00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:18,830
And I really do want people to take more responsibility for how we take this
information in, because people are just putting stuff out there, but it's up to
you.

539
00:55:19,130 --> 00:55:20,870
So, what do you want to do with this?

540
00:55:21,290 --> 00:55:27,030
And how strong are your roots that you're not taking this in and letting it
knock you over?

541
00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:27,040
A hundred percent.

542
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:37,010
And to the people who are listening who are business owners, and they they do
feel these pangs of comparison or imposter - I hear

543
00:55:37,010 --> 00:55:45,680
a lot especially in my audience because of what I do - I feel like a lot of
people feel like they need another certification or they're not smart enough.

544
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:55,550
Especially in our space where maybe if someone's becoming a health coach and
then they think, "But there are RDs and physicians and nurses, there are all
these rungs above me of people who are going to be trying to do

545
00:55:55,550 --> 00:56:00,170
things like me." What would you say to this person who's trying to work on
their self-talk?

546
00:56:00,170 --> 00:56:02,300
How do they get started in improving this?

547
00:56:03,370 --> 00:56:13,300
Yeah. I think that just like with the numbers and the metrics and the game to
play, there are certain things where you do need a

548
00:56:13,300 --> 00:56:21,670
certification. And there are certain things where you really can't be giving
certain counsel.

549
00:56:21,730 --> 00:56:31,480
Like, I don't want a surgeon operating on me who watch a lot of YouTube videos
and just read a lot of books and it's like,

550
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:39,850
"I'm self-taught." No, I want someone who went to school and has a degree and
has checkpoints in place.

551
00:56:39,850 --> 00:56:48,850
Beyond that, especially when you get into the more nuanced and more sometimes
obtuse

552
00:56:49,750 --> 00:56:59,660
industries of health coaching or wellness coaching, and what does health mean, 
what does wellness mean, I think that a question to ask yourself

553
00:56:59,660 --> 00:57:06,940
is, do I think that I need this certification because I actually need it?

554
00:57:06,940 --> 00:57:11,690
What is the payoff of this going to be?

555
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:21,050
Or am I just looking for something to make me feel like I know more?

556
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,490
I deserve to be here.

557
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,850
A lot of people feel like they don't deserve to be in the room.

558
00:57:25,850 --> 00:57:35,630
Or a lot of people have similar situations that I did where they left corporate
and then they're going into something that is not as accepted or understood by
society.

559
00:57:35,900 --> 00:57:37,760
It's really easy to walk into a room and say, "Hi.

560
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:43,050
I'm a lawyer" than to explain, "I'm a coach who helps people do this, this, and
this." It's much more complicated.

561
00:57:43,050 --> 00:57:45,150
People aren't aware of it.

562
00:57:45,170 --> 00:57:54,410
And so, I feel like a lot of people struggle with feeling like they've got to
continue to do this, to prove it to somebody that they're worthy of being there
and being part of the

563
00:57:54,410 --> 00:57:55,490
conversation.

564
00:57:55,980 --> 00:58:04,250
A hundred percent. And there are ways to develop expertise or thought
leadership, for lack of a better term.

565
00:58:04,250 --> 00:58:09,490
There's ways to do that without being like, "Okay.

566
00:58:09,490 --> 00:58:19,130
I need to be the most certified person in the world." And if you're going to do
that, then you

567
00:58:19,130 --> 00:58:28,400
have to ask yourself, how am I going to be responsible with the information
that I am giving out?

568
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:37,610
Like, I have all over my websites, my products, everything, what is on here is
not substitute

569
00:58:37,610 --> 00:58:44,420
for therapy, or a psychiatric help, or a doctor.

570
00:58:44,420 --> 00:58:53,720
And, you know, being really mindful and very self-aware about what you're
speaking about that is just your

571
00:58:53,720 --> 00:59:01,030
experience and what actually can or does apply to people other than yourself.

572
00:59:01,030 --> 00:59:10,340
Because something that can happen - I've seen it happen a lot in our space
online - is that people will take their one

573
00:59:10,340 --> 00:59:15,650
experience and then say, "I did this.

574
00:59:15,650 --> 00:59:25,640
And so, here's how you can do it, too." And that can be really dangerous, not
just from a mental-emotional level, but depending on your

575
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,020
area of work.

576
00:59:27,020 --> 00:59:33,170
Like, from a very small perspective - and this is a trendy thing that happens
online.

577
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:37,370
And so, I do not mean to call anyone out who does this.

578
00:59:37,370 --> 00:59:47,080
I just may be asking people to be a little more mindful around this and how
they put little disclaimers around it - what I eat in a day

579
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:55,400
posts. This happens a lot in the fitness world of like, "Here's the exercises
that I do

580
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:59,960
for my arms," whatever it is.

581
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:08,780
It's like you have a very specific physiological, biological makeup that is
going

582
01:00:09,140 --> 01:00:18,860
to make you respond to food, and nutrients, and movement, and exercise in a way
that is unique to

583
01:00:18,890 --> 01:00:28,490
you. And so, if you are telling people, "Oh, just eat these things and you'll
get this way." At the

584
01:00:28,490 --> 01:00:33,200
very base level, you're making false promises or you're making promises that
you can't stand behind.

585
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:42,290
And that's the low level, not even close to worst case scenario in that example
.

586
01:00:42,410 --> 01:00:50,930
And so, for someone who is thinking I need more certifications or more training,
get

587
01:00:52,520 --> 01:01:02,360
the amount of training that makes you feel solid and also allows you to see
what is yours

588
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,120
alone and what can be more universal.

589
01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:15,080
And, also, maybe look at the information that you're

590
01:01:15,740 --> 01:01:25,550
handing out, and are doling out, or suggesting to people, or the coaching that
you're giving to people and ask yourself, "How

591
01:01:25,550 --> 01:01:34,550
curious am I getting about the other person versus how much am I concerned with
being the expert

592
01:01:34,820 --> 01:01:36,440
here?"

593
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:37,900
This definitely happens.

594
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:47,840
We've seen it especially in the last few years, like the sort of guru mentality
of people on the internet wanting to be the person who

595
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,280
has the answers.

596
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,030
And that is really dangerous.

597
01:01:53,030 --> 01:01:57,650
And, honestly, as a business owner, I don't want to be that person.

598
01:01:57,650 --> 01:02:06,460
I don't want to put myself in that position on a base level for my own
personal, mental, and emotional health.

599
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:07,850
I don't want to be that person.

600
01:02:08,060 --> 01:02:12,830
And I also know from an accountability standpoint, I don't want to be that
person.

601
01:02:13,370 --> 01:02:23,240
And that's not actually what is the most helpful and useful end of service thing
for other people if

602
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:24,580
that's what I'm after.

603
01:02:24,580 --> 01:02:27,720
And I have decided that that is what I am after.

604
01:02:27,740 --> 01:02:36,690
And so, if that's what I'm after versus being famous, being a guru, being this 
high

605
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:47,480
up exalted expert, it drives me bananas when people will go to a

606
01:02:47,570 --> 01:02:56,500
life coach, or a health coach, or they'll go to even a personal trainer.

607
01:02:56,500 --> 01:03:01,990
They'll go to someone and then they are reliant on that person.

608
01:03:01,990 --> 01:03:08,150
And once they stop working with that person, they fall back into old habits.

609
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:17,910
Because that person has created a system where the people who buy into what
they're selling can't do what they want to do without them.

610
01:03:18,090 --> 01:03:19,830
I don't want to be that person.

611
01:03:19,830 --> 01:03:29,610
I want to be able to get curious and help you along your journey, and then go
off into the world and know that I am in your corner and I am cheering you on.

612
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,090
But you are your own end all, be all.

613
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,240
I am nowhere near your end all, be all.

614
01:03:36,270 --> 01:03:38,100
I am a stop along the way.

615
01:03:38,100 --> 01:03:45,510
And I hope that I can make a positive and proactive impact on someone.

616
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:49,860
But that is a very long answer to your short question.

617
01:03:49,860 --> 01:03:51,690
It's so interesting.

618
01:03:51,690 --> 01:03:56,310
If people are saying, "But I need this certification.

619
01:03:56,310 --> 01:04:06,060
I need to do this. I need to do that," look at the base level of what you want
to accomplish and who you want to be and the methods that you're taking to

620
01:04:06,060 --> 01:04:06,780
get there.

621
01:04:07,350 --> 01:04:17,010
There's so many fascinating elements to what you shared, but what came up for me
when you were saying this, in the coaching industry, I tend to

622
01:04:17,010 --> 01:04:20,730
see the creation of co-dependency patterns.

623
01:04:20,730 --> 01:04:23,740
Like you were saying, it was just keeping people looped in.

624
01:04:23,740 --> 01:04:27,630
But it also goes back to something we talked about on your podcast, which I'll
link to.

625
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:38,490
So, by looking at other people, when you mentioned the what I eat in a day, what
I work out for today, even people doing this small business sharing, "I did this
." Therefore, one plus one

626
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:40,770
equal to for you. That is not true.

627
01:04:40,770 --> 01:04:43,410
There are just so many factors that are dependent on that.

628
01:04:43,410 --> 01:04:50,040
And I hope to be one of those voices that's constantly saying that I'm being
really honest with you about how I did this.

629
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:53,600
That does not necessarily mean that that's what's going to happen for you.

630
01:04:53,610 --> 01:04:55,360
Not in a disclaimer way.

631
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,750
Literally, if you copied everything I did, I don't necessarily think you would
have the same outcome.

632
01:04:58,750 --> 01:05:08,670
It's dependent on so many different factors. But in doing that, too, in our
industry, people are taking what they see in the what I eat in a day post and
all

633
01:05:08,820 --> 01:05:11,700
that as the way to eat in a day.

634
01:05:11,700 --> 01:05:15,990
Let alone the fact that that is not what a coach is meant to do.

635
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:20,310
And this is something I talked a lot about in a scope of practice episode, which
I'll share here.

636
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:30,390
But I had a scope of practice episode about only doing what you're actually
qualified to do, but also how your personal experience is actually not a launch
pad

637
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,620
for a business. Because sometimes people will be like, "I dealt with
fibromyalgia.

638
01:05:35,310 --> 01:05:38,080
Therefore, now, I teach other people how to not have it," or something like
that.

639
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,920
That alone, in it of itself, that can motivate you to learn more about it.

640
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:47,910
But that, in it of itself, that experience is not enough to teach other people
how to navigate disease or whatever else.

641
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:49,260
So, it's just so fascinating to me.

642
01:05:49,260 --> 01:05:53,670
And you can be - what's the word?

643
01:05:53,670 --> 01:05:56,810
- an aggregation of resources.

644
01:05:56,810 --> 01:06:01,160
Like, let's say fibromyalgia.

645
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:09,420
Let's say, you had fibromyalgia and you conquered it or you manage it now in a
way that you're like, "This is amazing.

646
01:06:09,420 --> 01:06:10,530
I feel empowered.

647
01:06:10,530 --> 01:06:19,730
I feel strong." You can totally start a podcast about fibromyalgia and
interview

648
01:06:21,350 --> 01:06:23,630
doctors and experts.

649
01:06:23,630 --> 01:06:25,700
You can be the person.

650
01:06:25,700 --> 01:06:32,200
I mean, look at some of the greatest talk show hosts of our time.

651
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:41,590
Look at Oprah. Oprah, to my knowledge - people can correct me if I'm wrong -

652
01:06:41,590 --> 01:06:44,440
she didn't go to medical school.

653
01:06:44,450 --> 01:06:46,610
She's not a doctor.

654
01:06:47,180 --> 01:06:50,000
She's not a psychologist.

655
01:06:50,330 --> 01:07:00,290
But she has her own take on certain things and calls in experts, and then
aggregates that and gives her

656
01:07:00,290 --> 01:07:03,560
take on certain things in a way that is digestible.

657
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:13,100
But in no way, shape, or form does she say, "Here's what you do." She says I'm
going to interview this person or here's what this person says, g

658
01:07:13,100 --> 01:07:15,410
iving credit where credit is due.

659
01:07:15,410 --> 01:07:23,870
And I also think back to the what I eat in a day and what that sort of
represents to me, which is, trends and virality.

660
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:33,920
I think that as business owners, it's really important to not confuse trending
content and viral content as

661
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,940
actually making strides in your business.

662
01:07:36,940 --> 01:07:41,870
Because what's also really important to remember is that trends will come and
go.

663
01:07:43,370 --> 01:07:46,420
And, also, the internet is kind of forever.

664
01:07:46,430 --> 01:07:56,040
So, if you post something and don't actively take it down - I mean, maybe
someone screenshot it or something - if you have something up there,

665
01:07:56,040 --> 01:08:00,920
what you are creating could hit it big in years.

666
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:10,490
This is a silly example, but every single May or maybe end of

667
01:08:10,490 --> 01:08:13,880
April, there is a meme that goes around.

668
01:08:14,300 --> 01:08:15,770
It is Justin Timberlake.

669
01:08:16,310 --> 01:08:21,500
And at the very bottom it says, "It's going to be May.

670
01:08:21,500 --> 01:08:25,900
Like, it's going to be May, if you're an NSYNC fan.

671
01:08:25,900 --> 01:08:26,130
I hope that you are.

672
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:28,380
Huge NSYNC fan.

673
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:35,840
Fantastic. That meme has been going around for years.

674
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:45,680
And now it's at the point where I feel like it's sort of a part of pop culture,
like the pop culture Rolodex, Lexicon, whatever you want to

675
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:54,230
call it. That meme started, if not more than a decade ago, at least a decade
ago.

676
01:08:54,530 --> 01:09:03,050
Like, you never know when what you create is going to make the impact that you
want it to have.

677
01:09:03,050 --> 01:09:12,890
And so, staying within integrity in yourself, creating the work that you believe
is the work that is the right

678
01:09:12,890 --> 01:09:22,820
work for you to be creating, and letting go of the timeline of that, especially
with the way that social media is, the way that the internet

679
01:09:22,820 --> 01:09:25,010
is in our lives.

680
01:09:25,010 --> 01:09:34,820
I believe it's a survival tactic letting go of that timing because of the nature
of the internet and the way that people can find

681
01:09:34,820 --> 01:09:39,470
things from years and years and years ago.

682
01:09:39,470 --> 01:09:47,900
So, you have to ask yourself, "Am I in this for the quick hit of validation or
success or whatever?

683
01:09:47,900 --> 01:09:52,950
Or am I in this for the long haul?" [Inaudible] question to grapple with.

684
01:09:53,300 --> 01:09:55,710
Yeah, for sure.

685
01:09:55,710 --> 01:10:02,850
Because it's tempting. I'm a very long haul person, but I can see how people get
distracted by the temporary quick hits.

686
01:10:02,850 --> 01:10:05,700
Especially when you feel like the long haul takes time.

687
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:07,490
It took years and years to get any traction.

688
01:10:07,490 --> 01:10:09,590
I felt like no one was listening for a long time.

689
01:10:09,590 --> 01:10:12,590
So, I could see why that would be tempting.

690
01:10:12,590 --> 01:10:18,930
And I have a lot of compassion for that, but it's also not, in my opinion, the
best business move.

691
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:26,750
No. And do the things in the short term that can feed that part of your brain
and your ego.

692
01:10:26,780 --> 01:10:29,810
Your ego isn't a bad thing.

693
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:31,160
It's just a thing.

694
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:32,420
It's just there.

695
01:10:32,420 --> 01:10:42,410
Yeah. Exactly. Like, we talk about it like it's this evil ego, and we're all
like the ego wants you to climb the ladder and do these

696
01:10:42,410 --> 01:10:43,460
smarmy things.

697
01:10:43,460 --> 01:10:47,180
No. It's really good to have a healthy ego.

698
01:10:47,180 --> 01:10:49,240
And to be able to celebrate yourself.

699
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,130
And to be able to have your own back.

700
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:57,560
And so, explore what are the things that I can do to feel the way I want to
feel?

701
01:10:58,220 --> 01:11:08,150
What are the small things that I can do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to
feel like I'm making traction, to

702
01:11:08,150 --> 01:11:12,710
feel like what I do matters?

703
01:11:14,060 --> 01:11:18,280
And what can I do that's also in my control?

704
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:22,520
Because there's going to be so much that isn't in your control.

705
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:32,210
And that's something that's a big conversation about Instagram right now in the
algorithm - the ALGORITHM - and how much that will show you or not show you
other

706
01:11:32,540 --> 01:11:37,090
people's content based on whatever's going on, on the back end.

707
01:11:37,100 --> 01:11:40,870
You can't control that, but what can you control?

708
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:50,480
And just from a social media standpoint, there have been posts of mine that
have gotten reach beyond what I ever

709
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:53,780
thought I could get.

710
01:11:53,780 --> 01:12:02,390
And they've been posts that I told a story about bagels, and self-love, and
traditions, or whatever.

711
01:12:02,460 --> 01:12:07,970
It got to different bagel companies in New York.

712
01:12:07,970 --> 01:12:10,020
I got invited to a freaking bagel fest.

713
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:11,690
I know. That was my dream.

714
01:12:11,690 --> 01:12:13,040
I was so excited for you.

715
01:12:13,580 --> 01:12:15,200
It was so amazing.

716
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:21,740
But I was talking about how bagels and self-talk and self-esteem, actually,
they all go together and here's the way.

717
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:31,370
And then, there's other posts that I've created that are more educational posts
where I'm like, "I feel so strongly about this and I really want to help people
internalize

718
01:12:32,090 --> 01:12:41,550
this. And I hope that people save this and they're going to be able to get it."
And I look on the back end, forget about the likes or the

719
01:12:41,570 --> 01:12:51,260
comments, the amount of accounts that it actually reached is minuscule, like
maybe one percent of the total

720
01:12:51,260 --> 01:12:56,750
people who follow me. And that's not in my control.

721
01:12:56,750 --> 01:13:00,020
Yes, there are certain things and certain ways to strategize.

722
01:13:00,020 --> 01:13:09,920
And for that, I would say hire a social media strategist so that you don't get
in your head and so that you have someone who is actually an expert and who can
actually say, "This

723
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,280
is what matters. This is what doesn't matter.

724
01:13:12,290 --> 01:13:15,950
And here are the things that you should and shouldn't care about."

725
01:13:15,950 --> 01:13:25,880
But the main thing that I can control is my through line, what I feel the
strongest about, and what I want

726
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:35,700
my legacy to be as far as when it comes to my relationships with other people
and my time on

727
01:13:35,700 --> 01:13:43,550
this earth. That is what I can control, and so I can just do the very best that
I can in that realm.

728
01:13:43,550 --> 01:13:49,140
If I let that go, then what else do I have?

729
01:13:49,740 --> 01:13:50,940
Yeah. I'm so with you.

730
01:13:51,070 --> 01:13:53,220
And I'm so damn sick of hearing about the algorithm.

731
01:13:53,220 --> 01:13:56,430
So, not only can we not control it, they don't owe it to us anyway.

732
01:13:56,430 --> 01:13:58,500
And I'm like, you can only do what you could do.

733
01:13:58,500 --> 01:14:00,200
It just seems so silly.

734
01:14:00,210 --> 01:14:02,880
I just saw somebody say the other day she was quitting because of the algorithm
.

735
01:14:02,910 --> 01:14:04,290
I was like, "This has always been the algorithm.

736
01:14:04,770 --> 01:14:07,830
Welcome to the party." But it's just so funny to me.

737
01:14:07,830 --> 01:14:09,780
I'm like, "I don't know what the big deal is."

738
01:14:10,020 --> 01:14:19,950
And there's so many more interesting conversations, I believe, that we can be
having about social media, and the dynamics on social media, and our
relationship

739
01:14:20,700 --> 01:14:23,620
with it, and the self-talk around that.

740
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:29,300
There's so many more interesting conversations, I believe, than the
conversation about the freaking algorithm.

741
01:14:29,310 --> 01:14:36,830
And not to mention the fact that I am telling everyone, "I built my business up
pretty good when I had a small audience.

742
01:14:36,830 --> 01:14:38,560
Hardly anyone was seeing my post then.

743
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:42,770
It hasn't really gotten that much better." So, I think there's all this false
pressure, too.

744
01:14:42,770 --> 01:14:45,250
And exactly how many people do need to see your content?

745
01:14:45,250 --> 01:14:48,540
And if you're there to run a business, you can do a lot with a lot less than you
think.

746
01:14:49,020 --> 01:14:52,340
But, anyhoo, I could talk to you all day.

747
01:14:52,340 --> 01:14:52,830
Go ahead.

748
01:14:53,580 --> 01:14:55,050
I have a little story about that - a teeny, teeny, teeny little story.

749
01:14:55,200 --> 01:15:02,460
So, I did an Instagram Live a while ago.

750
01:15:02,460 --> 01:15:06,650
And it was like an interview, someone else was on it.

751
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:11,230
And it didn't get nearly as many.

752
01:15:11,230 --> 01:15:21,100
I thought that it was awesome, I was like, "This is so great and people are
going to love this." And it got - in relationship

753
01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:25,610
to the other Instagram Lives I've done - small for me.

754
01:15:25,630 --> 01:15:31,210
It didn't really move the needle at all with anything.

755
01:15:31,210 --> 01:15:34,030
Except there was one woman who saw it.

756
01:15:34,660 --> 01:15:39,450
She reached out to me and she was like, "Hey.

757
01:15:39,450 --> 01:15:42,510
I saw your Instagram Live with so-and-so.

758
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:49,630
I love it." Very long story short, she has now become a close friend of mine.

759
01:15:51,250 --> 01:15:55,240
She has her own group coaching practice.

760
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:59,130
I've gone in and been a guest speaker in her coaching practice.

761
01:15:59,130 --> 01:16:05,890
And there's a business level of that, but there's also a personal level of that.

762
01:16:05,890 --> 01:16:15,820
One person could see what you put out, or read the words that you write, or hear
the podcast, and whether you know it or not - in

763
01:16:15,820 --> 01:16:24,790
this case, I really benefited from this situation because I got a cool new
friend by it - it could change everything for them.

764
01:16:24,820 --> 01:16:27,010
It could change everything for them.

765
01:16:27,010 --> 01:16:36,880
And from a business level, that one person also could be a client who is your
star client, who makes so many incredible

766
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:41,020
strides, who refers you to a bunch of people.

767
01:16:41,020 --> 01:16:50,480
And so, just really celebrating whoever is there and realizing that no one is
beholden to whatever you are

768
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:54,110
creating in your business, whether it's content-based, service-based, or
product-based.

769
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:58,610
No one is beholden to that and they're choosing to be there.

770
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:09,090
That is something, whether it's three people or 3,000 people, I always feel so
honored that people are trusting me with their time, and their energy,

771
01:17:09,090 --> 01:17:11,640
and their inbox, and their brain space.

772
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:13,640
It's really incredible.

773
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:14,040
And that's my story.

774
01:17:14,490 --> 01:17:15,880
Yeah, it is.

775
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:23,900
I love it. I'm so glad you shared that because I talk a lot about how we all
focus so much on the monetary, like the revenue and the goals and all of this.

776
01:17:23,900 --> 01:17:26,840
But there are so many other things, like connecting and making friends.

777
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,710
I'm so glad that you said that.

778
01:17:28,710 --> 01:17:36,350
And by the way, speaking of newsletters - because I know that you have to go to
voice class - I want you to tell everybody how they can get your newsletter.

779
01:17:36,350 --> 01:17:38,700
Because I'm on it and I love it, so I would love for you to tell the people.

780
01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:40,410
You're awesome.

781
01:17:40,410 --> 01:17:50,370
Thank you. They can sign up at womenagainstnegativetalk.com, and that's the
place that has all of the tips, tools, motivation,

782
01:17:50,370 --> 01:17:55,610
inspiration that people can just dive in and binge read or binge listen to the
WANTcast.

783
01:17:56,580 --> 01:18:03,900
All of that stuff when it comes to moving forward in their lives by shifting
their self-talk patterns, so they can go there.

784
01:18:03,900 --> 01:18:13,730
If they want to learn more about the ways that they can work with me,
personally, they can go to katiehorwitch.com, that's H-O-R-W-I-T-C-H.

785
01:18:13,730 --> 01:18:23,520
I have everything on there from my speaking and workshops, to my mindset
coaching, to the private community that I host called the

786
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:25,960
WANT Community. It's small.

787
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:27,650
It's intimate. It's personal.

788
01:18:27,650 --> 01:18:28,800
It's beautiful.

789
01:18:28,890 --> 01:18:35,190
And they can find me on the internet, on Instagram @katiehorwitch, just my
name.

790
01:18:36,300 --> 01:18:37,830
And they can listen to your podcast, the WANTcast.

791
01:18:37,830 --> 01:18:43,920
And they can listen the WANTcast and they can listen to you on the WANTcast.

792
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:45,360
This is true. I can't wait.

793
01:18:45,390 --> 01:18:49,860
Well, before you go, I have to ask you quick, quick fire questions.

794
01:18:49,860 --> 01:18:53,880
So, would you rather have coffee or tea?

795
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:54,580
Coffee.

796
01:18:54,580 --> 01:18:57,090
Me, too. Would you rather read fiction or nonfiction?

797
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:03,600
Oh, I would rather alternate.

798
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,350
I don't want to read too much fiction, and I want to read too much nonfiction.

799
01:19:07,350 --> 01:19:10,980
I want to read a nonfiction book and then read a fiction book so I can apply
what I've learned.

800
01:19:11,220 --> 01:19:12,710
That's a good one. I like that.

801
01:19:12,710 --> 01:19:13,830
It's a good Libra answer.

802
01:19:13,860 --> 01:19:21,540
Yeah. Exactly. This is a very controversial question, do you like to clean up as
you go or clean up at the end when cooking?

803
01:19:21,540 --> 01:19:23,700
People have very passionate answers.

804
01:19:23,700 --> 01:19:33,120
Well, my husband would prefer that I clean up as I go, because that's his style.

805
01:19:33,480 --> 01:19:39,210
I like to clean up at the very end, so I do it all at once.

806
01:19:39,210 --> 01:19:43,510
Because I want to cook the thing and then have that moment.

807
01:19:43,510 --> 01:19:46,430
You know, I'm a crafter.

808
01:19:46,430 --> 01:19:49,920
I do art. It's like I want to make the art project and then put away the tools.

809
01:19:50,370 --> 01:19:51,300
That's how I view it.

810
01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:52,920
Yeah. I'm with you. Okay.

811
01:19:53,340 --> 01:19:56,820
Would you rather hit up a fancy restaurant or the best food trucks in New York?

812
01:19:56,970 --> 01:20:00,340
Fancy restaurant, but not necessarily for the food.

813
01:20:00,340 --> 01:20:03,390
I just really love a sit down experience.

814
01:20:03,390 --> 01:20:05,180
It's the introvert in me.

815
01:20:05,180 --> 01:20:06,690
The sensitive person in me.

816
01:20:06,690 --> 01:20:10,960
Like, I want a table to sit at.

817
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:14,340
And, also, I just love the restaurant experience.

818
01:20:14,340 --> 01:20:20,220
I think that it's like, yes, you get food, but it's a full sensory cultural
experience.

819
01:20:21,210 --> 01:20:23,580
So is the food truck, but I like sitting down.

820
01:20:23,850 --> 01:20:25,150
I hear you. Okay.

821
01:20:25,150 --> 01:20:28,530
And then, because it's you, I just have to ask you what your favorite bagel
order is.

822
01:20:29,490 --> 01:20:39,150
My favorite bagel order, I will give you the general order and then I'll give
you the specific for anyone who is in New York or visits New York.

823
01:20:39,630 --> 01:20:42,590
My bagel order is pumpernickel bagel.

824
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:51,840
If they don't have a pumpernickel bagel, I will get a poppy seed bagel, but it
has to have a lot of poppy seeds on it because I don't want it to just taste
like a plain bagel with some seeds on it.

825
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:56,530
Take the bagel, you scoop it out - there's a reason for that - you toast it.

826
01:20:56,530 --> 01:21:03,540
Inside on both sides, you put cream cheese, just plain cream cheese.

827
01:21:03,540 --> 01:21:09,840
And then, you put tomatoes on top, you put cucumbers on top, and sometimes you
put lox on top.

828
01:21:10,620 --> 01:21:14,400
You scoop it out, not for stupid diet culture reasons.

829
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,850
And I can't stand the diet culture has ruined scooped up bagels.

830
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:27,360
The reason you scoop out the bagels is it becomes a little moat for the cream
cheese and you get the proper ratios of bagel to schmear

831
01:21:27,690 --> 01:21:32,850
. If you are in New York, there's actually a place called Bagels and Schmear, 
that I do love.

832
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,370
It's in Gramercy area.

833
01:21:35,370 --> 01:21:43,470
But one of the best bagels that I have ever had and one of the most unique
bagels, it's from a place called Bagel Pub.

834
01:21:43,470 --> 01:21:45,840
And there's a few locations in Brooklyn.

835
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,490
They're about to open one in Manhattan.

836
01:21:47,610 --> 01:21:50,490
They have a pumpernickel everything bagel.

837
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:55,980
So, you get all of the best things about everything bagel.

838
01:21:55,980 --> 01:21:59,110
What I don't like about the everything bagel is it just tastes like a lot of
things.

839
01:22:00,340 --> 01:22:09,280
And then, you put the pumpernickel in the mix and you're like, "Are you
freaking kidding me?" And then, you add all of this stuff on and it's fantastic.

840
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:10,600
That sounds amazing.

841
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:12,850
And if you want bagel recommendations -

842
01:22:12,850 --> 01:22:12,860
Hit Katie up.

843
01:22:12,860 --> 01:22:17,350
- just hit me up on Instagram or email me, it's
katie@womenagainstnegativetalk.com.

844
01:22:20,350 --> 01:22:24,020
I will give you bagel suggestions for whatever part of the city you're in.

845
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:27,010
That's amazing. Look at that, always providing service.

846
01:22:27,820 --> 01:22:29,200
I just aim to be helpful.

847
01:22:29,380 --> 01:22:34,820
Exactly. Well, I say our next podcast is all about bagels if you're up for it.

848
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:35,910
I'm up for it.

849
01:22:35,910 --> 01:22:37,420
I can talk about bagels all day long.

850
01:22:38,410 --> 01:22:40,210
Well, thank you so much, Katie, for being here.

851
01:22:40,210 --> 01:22:41,270
I really appreciate it.

852
01:22:41,270 --> 01:22:43,050
And I hope you have fun at your voice class.

853
01:22:43,050 --> 01:22:50,860
And, everybody, make sure you reach out to Katie and say hi, get on her
newsletter, listen to her podcast, do all of the things.

854
01:22:50,860 --> 01:22:52,900
Awesome. Thank you so much. This was such an honor.

855
01:22:52,900 --> 01:22:56,890
And I loved this conversation and getting to spend my afternoon with you.

856
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:58,120
Thank you. You, too.

857
01:22:58,150 --> 01:23:03,570
I'll see you later.

858
01:23:03,570 --> 01:23:06,030
Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms podcast.

859
01:23:06,060 --> 01:23:10,710
Make sure to follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen
to podcasts.

860
01:23:10,740 --> 01:23:17,700
You can also check out all of our podcast episodes, show notes, links, and more
at samvanderwielen.com/podcast.

861
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:26,230
You can learn more about legally protecting your business and take my free
legal workshop, Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business at
samvanderwielen.com.

862
01:23:26,230 --> 01:23:31,900
And to stay connected and follow along, follow me on Instagram
@samvanderwielen, and send me a DM to say hi.

©

863
01:23:31,900 --> 01:23:32,140
2022 Sam Vander Wielen LLC | All Rights Reserved | Any use of this intellectual 
property owned by Sam Vander Wielen LLC may not be used in connection with the 
sale or distribution of any content (free or paid, written or verbal), product,

864
01:23:32,140 --> 01:23:32,280
and/or service by you without prior written consent from Sam Vander Wielen LLC.