I did not eat or drink for 24 hours because I did

not want to have to go So, and that's just the truth, because,

like I said, you know, when you're a girl and you're doing a

guy thing, you kind of pick your limitations, you know, and so,

but that was my first experience, was they played

jokes on me and pranks on me, and scared the heebie jeebies

out of me because they were trying. And I remember the

management said, Look, you're going to have to girl down, just

man up and girl down. And so I put on

girl down. Love it. Hello and welcome to

storytelling for business, the podcast that helps you build

better customer relationships by telling stories your clients

want to hear. I'm Katie Flamen. I'm a voice actor and

broadcaster specialising in corporate storytelling. That

means I work with all kinds of companies all over the world,

helping them to share brand stories, business developments

and information about their new products and services. So what's

this podcast all about then? Well, I notice that some of the

scripts I record are super powerful. I just know my

client's audience will really resonate with the words I've

been asked to say, and even if it's not good news, they'll pay

attention and absorb the message. But other scripts, I'm

less convinced. So I was curious about how you can guarantee your

business marketing will be a success story. So I started this

podcast to try and find out and to help. And if you're a regular

here, you'll know it's got a lot to do with your storytelling. So

I'm picking the brains of storytelling experts and

chatting to fascinating business owners who use storytelling in

their marketing. And of course, you get to listen in and learn

alongside me, Today's guest has got a lot of stories. Lisa Ward

is a business strategist with nearly 40 years of experience in

operations, HR and organisational development.

She's a former Councilwoman and zoning Commissioner Alabama

Senate candidate. She's all about making a difference in the

world and championing rural communities, and that's evident

in her role as President and Board member of H2o Energy USA,

leading efforts to repurpose abandoned coal mines into energy

storage sites using hydroelectric power. It's pretty

epic. We're going to find out all about it. Lisa herself,

rather like the water never stands still. I first came

across her because of her enthusiastic support for this

podcast, and it's so brilliant that she's joining us as my

guest today. So I'm going to stop talking as if you're not

here, Lisa, and let's jump in. Lisa Ward, welcome to

storytelling for business.

Thank you. Thank you. It's so good to be able to

connect with you right now. And we've been doing this back and

forth on LinkedIn for a while. So it's great to just to have an

interactive conversation.

Yeah, isn't it just, isn't it justice? There's

sometimes you have to, if you can't do in person in the room.

Sometimes you have to take it out of typing and actually have

a proper, proper chat. So it's brilliant to have you here.

Okay, the only thing that's certain is change in life. I

read out a lot of things that you do, you have, you juggle a

lot of balls in your life. So which story should we start

with?

Probably the true story. It's exactly what you

said. We evolve and we grow and we change and we adapt. And I

think that the joke that people often say about me is I'm like a

spider. I'm versatile. I can go in any direction anytime, but I

like to lean into the directions that have my passions, the

things that matter the most to me. And oftentimes when I'm

doing something or changing what I'm doing, because I have

changed a lot of things throughout the course of my

life, my passions have moved. Not many of them, but the ones

that have moved has become been because my why has been big

enough, and usually it always goes back to my children and my

grandchildren their future. You know, what is it that I can do

that can make a difference to affect their future? And I've

always had pretty much of a conviction that those before me

fought really hard so I could have the things that I had when

I was raising my kids. And so it's kind of like my pay it

forward to the future, to do my part here and now. And if I'm

not real passionate about it, it's hard to embrace and stick

with it. But if it's something that I believe in, I'll I'll

swim against the grain every time, you know, I will just go

against the current, and I'll stand by myself if I believe in

it. And there's just a couple things out there that I really

believe in, and I find little pockets in the world that I can

insert myself to do those things. Yes, it's not very

glamorous. I get down there and I grind with the rest of them,

but it's where my passion is.

Yeah, so you want to make the world a better

place, which is brilliant. I mean, you know, who doesn't want

to make the world a better place for. Their for their kids and

their grandchildren. But not everybody is is actually trying

to make a tangible difference. You know, there's people say,

Yeah, well, I want to, I want to earn enough money so I can pass

on some money, or I want to take them on an amazing holiday, but,

but you are literally trying to save the planet

you were trying, you know, I think that it's a hard

thing, but it all starts in our backyards. And, you know, if we

would all come back home to where we are, it starts with

having a good family. You know, if you be the friend you can't

find, you know, be the parent you didn't have those kinds of

things work in the neighbourhood that doesn't have. You know,

when you have the story of the haves and the have nots, we

pretty much have so many people in our world, globally, in and

in our backyards that don't have and we forget about those,

especially if we live in the city. We forget about those

rural communities or, you know, if we have two of something, we

don't think about giving one away. We just, it's like it's

never enough. And I come from a blue collar background, born and

bred from hard working parents that my mother taught me how to

turn a nickel into a quarter and make spaghetti last till

Thursday. You know, life's experiences is what qualifies

us, and sometimes we think that if we don't have the best degree

or the biggest job, that we can't do the most important

things. And it's usually common sense or having conversations.

And that's kind of one of the things about my story, is that

I'm not afraid to be an icebreaker. If you want to talk

about it and you want to sit down and have that hard

conversation, I'll have at it. I might not say the words as

pretty as you. I might not be able to talk as fancy as the

next guy, but I'll talk that truth. It's as flawed as it

comes and as flawed as I am. If you'll have that conversation

with me, how we can make this a better place for the next guy,

I'm all in.

So you're in Alabama, and I've got listeners

all over the world, so tell us what it's like where you live.

You've talked about your backyard and your community. So

have you always lived there and and well, what tangibly Do you

want to make a difference about

this is home. Now, I'm originally from Northwest

Indiana, and when I came down here, I hated heat and clay, and

I got both. So be careful what you dislike in the world,

because karma will get you because it's hot, it's really

hot, and how hot. Bad hair days every other day, you might as

well hang it up. You're going to be living in a bun from June

until October. But no, it's really hot and it's really sad.

Now it's sad because it's a beautiful place and there's

wonderful people, but the struggle is real here. We're the

Forgotten state of the country in America. We get what's left

over. We it's sad because, like, I'll give you an example when I

ran for office. I ran for office because I lived in a community

where I had access to eight hospitals within 30 minutes, but

it was fighting for a district that the only hospital they had

in their entire county was shut down in the middle of COVID, and

they have no hospital now, and we can't do any we've lost 25

hospitals in our state. There's no money unless federal funding

brings it. And I have always been if I don't know if you've

ever heard of the story, the Andy Griffith Show called, well,

it's called Andy Griffith, but the Mayberry, I've always had

this this, it's a small town that they all help each other.

It's like a little just a little country town, and they all have

a desire to have a little storefront or of some kind, and

they produce a community. And I've always had a desire in

Alabama, because it's mostly rural, ghost towned communities,

where people are forced to leave their communities, to go into

the cities to work, and they have to leave their hometowns to

do that, and they don't want to, they don't want to leave home,

but there's no jobs for them, and over the years, we have

slowly taken away the stores and the hospitals and the schools,

and there's nothing there. Well, in it's pretty much what's led

up to what I'm doing now. But Coal mining is just part of the

heritage here. Everybody here is related to a coal miner one way

or another. That's just what they had for many years. And the

Appalachian is that was, you know, where we got our energy.

It's where we got our light. Well, I got into the mining

industry when I had come down here. I've been down here for 34

years, I think. And I always knew there was something else

and there was something more, but they spent more time. The

coal miners spent more time fighting fossil fuel, fighting

the whole carbon emission thing, and nobody understands unless

they've gone underground what they go through. And I saw this,

and I saw the town starting to dry up as the minerals were

gone. And. And the abandoned mines left its hole, they moved

on. And it just, it just got sadder and sadder, because

the mines all closed, and nothing replaced it

in terms of industry.

And then the, you know, and I guess I've always

had a passion, because when I went underground, and I wanted

to learn every facet I was in management, but I wanted to

learn every facet of the industry so that I could use my

skill to help that part of it. So I got my Foreman's licence,

my certificate to go underground with them and culture shock. But

I did that, and I wanted to learn their world so that me

above ground in management could understand how to make their

world better. But I guess, what

was it like? What was it like that first time you

went down there?

Um, I did not eat or drink for 24 hours because I did

not want to have to go So, and that's just the truth, because

it's it like I said, you know, when you're a girl and you're

doing a guy thing, you kind of pick your limitations, you know,

and so, but that was my first experience, was they played

jokes on me and pranks on me and scared the heebie jeebies out of

me because they were trying. And I remember the management said,

Look, you're gonna have to girl down, just man up and girl down.

And so I put on exactly what they told me. And I've never

heard that before, yes, what they told me. And so I learned

really quick how to, you know, do it their way. But I had a

different appreciation for how I held a fork. I had a when I came

back up. And I learned, over time, what these guys did, and I

had such a compassion for them. I can tell a coal miner from a

mile away by their eyelashes and the dirt in their ears. I could

just tell down here in the south, but I remember holding my

fork differently after I came up from underground, because I know

where that came from. I flipping the switch on their light, or

opening your refrigerator. You know the where the lights come

on. You take those things for granted until you actually know?

Then I started fighting for those coal miners, and I

thought, You know what? They don't get paid a lot of money

for going underground. They get paid the money they get for

knowing how to come back up safely to their families,

because people don't get that. And while they spent their whole

life fighting and on defence over carbon when they're not the

only ones that's caused the problem. This was their

livelihood, and I knew there was something more to it. It wasn't

until 2011 I partnered with some people in Australia who had the

same kinds of visions. I started working with them, and they had

this idea to do this H, 2o energy. They had this site, this

concept, and I totally fell in love with the concept because it

would prevent us from the coal mining industry becoming extinct

and giving us a transition. Because what we do in H 2o

energy allows us the opportunity to utilise all forms of energy,

wind, solar, water, the mines, all of it, and when people

understand what we do and how we want to do it, it makes a whole

lot more sense. But it's about all inclusiveness. It's not

about isolating the coal miners. And we spent three years trying

to get the environmental people and the coal miner people to not

hate each other, to have the conversation. And that was one

of my biggest challenges in public advocacy here in Alabama,

was to get them to the table. Friends now, yeah, oh, yeah. And

it's great now, because there's a different kind of respect, I

think, for the other side, coal mining, the coal mining

industry, or at least the coal miners. A lot of them really do

want to solve this problem, but they're spending so much time,

time trying to defend themselves that that, you know, because

it's their

livelihood. Sorry to interrupt you, there are

still working minds then, yes, oh, yeah. So there's kind of

percentage are closed down and and available. Maybe for you

get to a point where you mine it out once the once

the coal mine is gone and it's mined out, it's exhausted its

resources. It closes in Alabama alone. There's 812 abandoned

mines. 812 just in, wow, just Alabama. Now don't, let's not

talk about the globe. And so what we're doing could actually

be innovative for the globe, if it you know, and there's a lot

of people trying to do it, it's just unfortunate for the

regulations that it's hard.

Okay, so how long have you been trying to get

this? I started

working with somebody in 2015 we did not start going

public until about three or four years ago, but the people before

us that we partnered with in Australia, they were doing this

for a decade, and they got really close in Australia, but

then the government pretty much intercepted and shut it down

for, you know, political you know how political power is, and

so it didn't work there. And fast forward. Forwarding to my

getting involved. When they came to me and we started talking,

because I was working with somebody on other related

projects, and this came about, and the integration of all of it

was like, Oh, wow. I am so passionate about this. This is a

solution to a problem, and I'm a problem solver. I don't like to

spend my energy on problems. Like to focus on the solution.

And when I saw this opportunity to possibly give a little bit of

light to the coal miners, and then no longer be the villains,

but possibly the heroes, because everyone says we need more

energy, and they're like, Well, we have it right here, if you

let us do it. But when we partnered in 15 and started

talking and collaborating, I said, Okay, I'm going to go all

in, but you have to come to Alabama first. They wanted to

come to America. And I said, we have to go to Alabama first. We

want to dominate the Appalachia. Those are the ones that are

suffering the most. Those rural communities need it the most,

and everybody will benefit by it. But if you think about the

abandoned minds. Instead of reclaiming them, let's repurpose

them. And that's how it started unfolding. And we started having

these conversations, the hard ones, once you could get past

the defence mechanism of people attacking you, trying to take

what we're doing and make it, politicise it and face it,

everybody needs energy. We all need to be able to open our

refrigerators any hour of the day. We all want to take our

showers, and we all want to be able to turn on the light. So

I've been trying to cool

escalators. You know, that's the strain on

energy,

yeah, yeah. And so I think that one of the things

here that was a little challenging, but also hopeful,

and we're now in the brink of possibility, and that's that our

governor actually committed to a data centre here, and then it

turns out that they cannot do the commitment of 100%

renewable, but we can. So we're crossing our fingers. Anybody

listening, cross your fingers for us that legislation will see

an opportunity to take and stop taxing us to death because we're

poor people here, people here don't have money. And a good

example of that is in New York, you need 40,000 you don't even

have to pay income tax in New York until you've earned 40,000

in Alabama, you have to pay income tax if you've earned 4000

babysitters and yard. Yard folks have to pay taxes. Our grocery

tax. We pay up to 11% for baby food. Goat food is cheaper than

baby food, no in Alabama, so there's nothing left to tax. And

so we're saying hello, since the federal funding is starting to

run out, because our government and our administration is what

it is, and we don't want to talk about that, but we all know

what's happening in America, and we want to come up with a way to

produce revenue and not depend on the federal funding or taxing

the people who don't have anything left to tax. So we're

in the middle right now of working with legislators to see

what we can do about de escalating, some of the

regulatory constraints that are preventing us from moving

forward. And that's what's exciting, I guess, about what

we're trying to do. And I will be quiet so you can ask,

well, I want to know what it actually is you've

got grandchildren, right? Pretend I'm one of them, one of

the little ones. How? How on earth can you take one of your

800 dead coal mines and turn it into a hydroelectric, solar,

wind energy farm?

Well, when you say one of the grandchildren, my

eight year old granddaughter, says it's like a teapot and a

cup, and you, she says, You just pour the water from the teapot

into the cup, and then you pour it back in there. And it's

basically what it is, is a closed loop hole. There's a hole

on top, we call it a reservoir of water that's already sitting

there, and then there's a hole underground or at the bottom,

and it's the same water that circles itself around using

turbines and solar panels. So if you've got solar on top, you've

got the wind and the So solar by day, and then it goes down into

a hole or into a shaft, pipes, the pen stacks, basically use a

turbine to recirculate it, and then it produces energy. Well,

this big hole in the ground that it's already full of water,

because nature fills it up after it's got a hallow Yeah. And I

kind of, I tell the kids, it's like having a big house with no

furniture and no decor in it. It's just one big hallow thing,

right? And imagine it being filled with water. Well, that's

what those holes in the ground happen. So that becomes your

battery storage. It's already there. It's a low capital, low

cost job. It's low risk, because it's already there. And then,

because the mines were once there, there's grids. There is

the reservoirs that are. Already there. Alabama has tonnes of

sunlight. There is no sort shortage of water. We have

114,000 miles of just rivers and streams. So let's not talk about

all of the lakes and all of the, you know, rivers, everything

else that we have here, water is plenty. So that's not a problem.

Windy too, isn't it? Sometimes it's good, but we have those. We

have the turbines, and we have the solar panels. So you're

basically when the electricity is produced with the solar

panels, and it goes down in the water, is circulating, it

produces it. And depending on what size turbine you have, we

can have the ability to upgrade it. We can do a three megawatt,

up to 1000 megawatt. So you can upgrade depending on how much

energy you want to produce. The storage can produce for up to

five, up to five days of storage based on a, for example, a 50

megawatt. So there's a whole lot of the engineering side of it.

That's not where my passion is, because that's for the nerdy

guys on my team. You know, that's not as fun for me. My

passion is the excitement and the possibilities of what it can

do for all of those people that are without and that's kind of

what I'm driven to do, is explain to people that all you

got to do is give this a chance and have this conversation, let

them work out the details. But it is a real thing. It is very,

very plausible. It can be done. The one question everybody asks

every time we explain it is, why haven't we done it sooner? And

it's politics, it's greed, it's power, no pun, but it's

basically people that want it for themselves, and they want to

hoard it and hog it, and they want to figure out a way they're

going to prevent it, and they're going to hold it back until they

can figure out a way that they can capture all the profit. And

so that's where the regulatory constraints and all of these

laws and red tapes are there to prevent us from doing this, and

there's enough of the pie for everybody. Our why for doing

this is about the preservation of tomorrow. Because whether you

believe that the coal miners did this, whether you believe that

you know China or the trucks or the trees created all the

carbon, doesn't matter. The fact is, no one's going to lay their

iPads down, and none of us are going to walk to the grocery

store without their iPhones. Yeah, you know, I mean, it is

what it is. So if we can find ways to partner with solar and

and the turbines and the coal mines, and get the power

companies, the utility companies and the to allow us,

manufacturers of energy, to do something everybody can profit,

but it's just going to take somebody caring enough about

tomorrow to do something about it today.

So you've been on this quest for pretty much 10

years, since it first started, and you're very passionate about

it. And, I mean, you know, I'm sold. I think it sounds amazing,

but it must be, you know, you must be best friends with

frustration, Lisa,

exhaustion is my middle name. I do this stuff

around the clock because the people we work with are in

different time zones. Yeah. So I have actually, in my office

here, I have a twin bed so that I can pop up and do my, you

know, nightly calls or whatever, whenever we're doing those. But

we have partners in Australia, and then we have people here,

and this is where my ability and my skill set being a spider

comes in handy, because about the time we get somewhere, we

get a new president, or we lose an old FERC chairman, or

somebody decides that they're going to change a rule, and

everything changes for us. You get people investors, that want

to come in and they want to get involved, and I think at this

point there's some fear with investors, because we're so

unstable in America right now, yeah, and so it makes it

difficult. But every time we get close, you know it's there's a

setback, and

you've had struggle in your life, right?

You know, you're a tough cookie. You're a tough cookie. So it is,

does that make, does that like, fire you up even more? Like,

yeah, bring it. Or are there some days when you just want to

walk away? You know, how do you kind of

keep I think you walk away about four times a week,

okay, but I don't my since my office is at my house, I have

I'm forced to be facing, I have to come back, you know, but it's

the truth when you're growing up and you watch the under. I never

could stand when the kids got picked on. I just I would see

red when I saw the. Really unfortunate. I honestly, I was

raised in a religious family background, but when I grew up

and I realised that I found more Jesus in food banks and in

homeless shelters than I ever did in a building my ministry

went to the streets. I can remember one story that has

never left me, and I kind of get emotional about it every time,

but I was campaigning, and I was sitting on a dilapidated porch

in a rural community with this elderly woman on a on we were

rocking on her rocking chairs, and was asking for her vote, and

she said, Miss Lisa, you don't want my vote. I'm not going to

vote for you because I don't vote anymore. And I asked her

why, and she says, I don't wake up every day thinking about

which college my kid's going to go to. She says, I wake up every

day wondering which prison he's going to end up in, because

there's nothing here for him. And I just kind of lost it. But

then a week later, I was campaigning, and I was talking

to somebody, and she couldn't vote because she wasn't

registered. And I asked her why, and she said she didn't have an

address, that she lived in a tent, and she talks to

squirrels, not people. And this is in my backyard. This is where

I live in Alabama. And these stories are not isolated

in in in the 21st Century, yeah. And

I think that is my why that? I think that I think

about, I'm so blessed. I don't have tonnes, but I have enough.

And I remember, a couple years ago, we found out that 4000

students go to public schools here, and they're homeless. They

live in their cars, but their moms. How does that happen? In

20? In 2025, you know? And I just don't understand how people

have plenty, and they just it's not enough, you know? So, yeah,

I mean, like I said, I grew up in a blue collar community, and

we were raised in being surrounded by sadness and

misfortune, and it doesn't have to be that way. America is a

country of abundance. You know, we're sitting on gold, and we're

just just blowing it. We're just like throwing it away, and it's

like the greed you can't get enough, and it's like you can't

take it with you. So why are you hanging on to it? You know what

I mean? And I think that that's what drives me, but because I'm

not in a circle, or because I'm not compromising my values and

my moral compass. It's taken me longer, like my daughter says,

I'm still going to the mall, I just got to take the back road,

you know. So it's taken me a little longer to get there, but

I refuse to compromise what I believe in, and that's the right

thing. I want an economic comeback for these rural

communities, and I want the least among us to have a chance

at a fair shot. No one's asking for a free ride. We just want a

fair shot. And if we can do this, and they will open up

their legislative hearts to allow this, especially in

Alabama and the Appalachia, people will stand a fair chance,

and maybe there'll be hope for tomorrow, for the next

generation that we owe them to secure and take care of.

Yeah, it's, it's fascinating to me, as somebody

who lives in a country where in the south of the country the

rules are the same as in the north of the country. You know,

yes, Scotland has a few extra different slightly rules and

stuff. But pretty much, you know, healthcare is free, and,

and, and there is that, yeah, yeah. And, I mean, I'm so

fortunate and, and not only do you guys have, if you don't have

insurance, there is no health care. But what you know, what

you described earlier on about one thing being the case in New

York and something entirely different, being the case in

Alabama in terms of taxes. It's, It's extraordinary to me that

that, that that's the case within one country. And of

course, it's, it's how it is, right? America is very big. Each

state is like a little country all by itself, and so on and so

on. But it is really fascinating to come from my perspective,

where and people in the UK would say, well, property is cheaper

up north, and there are less jobs, and so on and so on. But

it's not the same. It's so not the same, and and there's

poverty everywhere, yes, but it's really still not the same.

Did you think it's because you're a mom that this empathy

and this,

I think more moms need to be in legislation? You

know, I joke about it, but it's true. We we give birth to them

and we raise them, we should be able to lead them, because it's

if you can take care of a household, you can take care of

a government, you can lead. And if statistically, I'll be

honest, most places where there is a woman in charge, there's a.

Surplus, or people are happier. And I do think that what we're

lacking right now is nurturing. We're broken, especially in

America. We, by nature, don't hate each other. This is not a

Democratic, Republican thing. This is a class thing. This is

the rich and the poor. This is fear baiting. What they're doing

is fear baiting, and they're dividing us so that we don't

like our neighbour. And before they even ask you what your

dog's name is, they want to know how you vote, and that's how far

it's gone in our country. And it's heartbreaking, because this

isn't how we were raised. This isn't who we are. I live in the

bible belt down here. Is what's known as the Bible Belt, but I

think that they took the red ink out, and it saddens me, because

if Jesus were walking the earth today, I don't think that he

would be happy. You know what I mean? And it's not even that

we're religious people, but it's just a spiritual thing that is

called humanitarian. Ism it's like, just be a human first,

just have decency first. How do you not? I mean, how do you not

feel pain when you see somebody suffering and sleeping on the

side of the road and it's sad? It's not that you want to give

free rides everywhere. It's not like that. But if you're

fortunate enough to have plenty, find somebody that you can help.

Have a little you know, we have some really sad stories here,

some really sad stories. And if you can't feel that pain when

you think about them, you know, why are you doing this? Why are

you bothering? You know what I mean? I wonder

whether it's because, whether it's to do with

having enough time, like everyone is very time poor. And

you said, you know, people don't want to, they don't want to ask

who, what's, what's the name of your dog. They want to know how

you're going to vote, like, if you have the time to have a

little chat and to make a connection. I mean, this, this

podcast is about people's stories and about connecting

with people on on an emotional level, and I wonder whether

that's what that's what I mean to like bring it back to

businesses. At the end of the day, somebody at each end of a

business is a human being and and is that? What? What we're

losing that kind of person, what we've lost connection and the

time as well.

We've lost that. We've become transactional.

We're we're living in a time of transactions. It's almost like

when I got first got on LinkedIn 10, it was totally different

this time than it was the first time. And when I got on there,

all I heard was for everybody telling me how to post and how

to get followers and how to connect and how to build my

business. And I'll be honest, I was just going there to find

people like me that wanted to talk to somebody else that

wasn't my husband after COVID, that was all I talked to, you

know, I really wanted to connect with people, you know, people

that with common things that I had in common, that I was

passionate about. And it got so transactional that I kind of

lost that passion for it, and I started going back into the

streets. I would much rather have the phone, you know, like,

how many people do you tell Happy Birthday to on the phone

now, do you actually call them and say it, or do you just throw

out a Facebook text or send them a text, happy birthday? You

know, we've lost that. We've become transactional, and we've

lost the human connection. And I think that that's going to be

our, our our demise. I really do. I think it's going to be our

demise, because we're never going to give up. We're humans,

as long as we're here, right? And us doing what we're doing

needs to be our Whys need to be big enough. I don't know how

else to say it, except their why's why we're here and he just

needs to be big enough, and why we do the things we do needs to

be big enough, and if your why isn't good enough for doing the

things you're doing, stop doing them. That's why it's taken me

so long with this, because I want it to be the right way, and

I want it to be with the right people. Anybody can hand us some

money and say, I'll invest but if you've got the wrong motive

behind why you're doing it, it's not going to sustain itself,

and that's the case with whatever you're doing,

isn't it? If you're, if you're if you're starting a new diet,

and you're not passionate about it, and your reasoning is

because you just want to look good in six weeks time for a

party, and not because you want to change your life and be more

healthy and be able to run after your children. You know, it's

got to be, it's got to be real, and it's got to be sustainable,

and it's got to be from a real place of genuine care, I think,

and empathy, or, or empathy proper? Why? A proper capital

letters? Why? And in business. Yes, I'm interested to know,

really, what you've done a lot of different jobs, and you're

doing what you're doing now. You're slogging away at it,

you're you're disillusioned with kind of, you know, social media

and all of that. So you're getting out and talking to real

people, and how does that make you feel? Does it make you feel

like alive? Making progress?

It makes me feel alive. You know, text messaging

doesn't give you body language. It doesn't give you tone, it

doesn't give you the affection. I like looking people in the eye

and seeing when their eyebrows raise up, then they're they're

interested, they're engaged. You know, I like for people to know

why I'm doing this, but I have to have human touch. I have to

have that that real. And sadly, people are not flying anymore,

so I probably won't get over to see you anytime soon, but I do

like that. I mean to me, it's important. It stimulates, it

does something for you. And I do believe that that's how it was

intended to begin with. You know, we don't take down and put

down our phones like we need to. We have a rule in my house,

because one we had, one Thanksgiving, we were sitting

there, and there was 11 people in my house. They were all on

phones. Next thing I know, I realised They're all laughing.

And I thought they were laughing while I was cooking, and they

were laughing because they were posting to each other on

Facebook in my living room. And I was like, but that's how far

it's gone, you know,

yeah, yeah. We have a no phones at the table

rule in my house for exactly that reason. It's yeah, it is.

It is mad and and I think it's, I think it's really brilliant

that you are this, this dynamic, you know, Young Business Woman,

but with a family and with kids and with grandchildren. And you

so are. You are because, because you're, young in terms of your

outlook, your passion, your energy, and you've got, but

you've got two generations behind you who totally

understand what you're doing, and, and, and kind of you said,

they're your why, right? They're spurring you on. And all the

time that that you've got the energy to do it that's massively

inspiring to people.

Well, it wasn't always that way. I mean, I've

had a lot of setbacks, you know, like I said, I even went through

a potential after 40 years. We I almost, you know, lost a

marriage, and my passions and the things that I did, it's all

real. And I I'm not afraid to talk about I don't want to bleed

all over everybody. But we're not alone. We're not isolated.

And if more people knew, there would be more, I think, sympathy

and compassion, because we all go through the same struggles,

and a lot of times it's pressure, it's the business

pressure, it's the the idea of what defines success. And I

think that that adds a lot to the table, and a lot of that

burden, we carry that baggage with us, and I did it. I

couldn't find my priorities, because I wanted this and that.

And as a woman, it's hard to have both, because you there's

more on us than them. That's just the truth, and we juggle

more, and we want both this and that. So you work extra, and you

feel deeper and you hurt more.

So how do you define success? What's success

for you?

You don't, honestly, you don't define it, because it

changes. I think, I think our level of success, and you know,

what might be successful to me might be that I didn't crave

chocolate today. That's successful, you know. But then

it's, did I pay all my bills with one paycheck? And it's, did

that kid that I raised who taught to do, you know, a

certain thing when a challenge came their way, were they

successful? And did they make the right choice? You know? So

it's, it's like, it's something that can't really be defined.

It's just so big and broad. And I think that that's a word that

I don't use much, because every single day changes for me, and

when I wake up in the morning, it's not the same conversation

in my head as it is when I lay my head down at night. Yeah. So,

yeah, I don't know. You'd have to ask somebody else that one.

I think, I think that's a great answer, though,

because it's it, it's, it's very easy to say success is, or a

successful person is, and, and, like you said, it, it moves. It

fluctuates from one day to the next, from one, from one minute

to the next, from one interaction with one human to

the next. Like, if you can get your kid to eat the broccoli,

that's a success. You want, yeah? I mean, right, so, so,

yeah, I think, I think that's, I think that's really important

to. Actually say, and I'm just, I want to come back to your

spider analogy, because not many people would be very pleased to

be called a spider. I don't

think it's better than dragonfly. I've been called

that

too. Have you okay? Oh yeah, okay, because

I hover over sewer water. I said they also bite the

heads off prey

and eat. The eat their prey. Yeah, okay, maybe

that's praying mantis. Okay, won't go there, but, but I was

thinking about a web and and how spiders feel the vibration. And

it's not about necessarily catching and ensnaring and then

eating. It's it's about connecting from one side of

sometimes spider webs go a really long way. It's well, and

here I'm doing a lot of a lot of watering in my garden at the

moment, and and that thing where you bend down with your watering

can and you've got a face full of spider web it's really

horrible, but, but those webs go from from one tree over here to

the gate post over here, and and, and

the speed that they do it, you knock it down, it's

back in 12 hours or less.

Yeah. So I think actually, it's, it's a, I think

it's quite a nice kind of badge of honour to have that ability

to create something out of nothing, out of your bum, if you

like, to to connect things that are really far apart and bring

them together to keep remaking. I really, I really like it. So,

um, so, what kind of spider should I be? Well,

um, an agile, an agile one, a very what kind of

spider? I don't know. I don't think it matters. I think you

can change your spider depending on the depending on the

circumstances. Sometimes you might need to bite somebody,

yeah,

but, um, well, the reach is so far. Maybe I'm just

a daddy long leg. Um, but easy as you know, it's sometimes.

There's days I wake up and I think, maybe I'm not supposed to

be doing this, and then something happens, and I'm like,

No, I have to do this. I'm driven to do this. And maybe I'm

just the person that ploughs up the gland, and somebody else

comes along and plants the seed, and maybe this is what I'm

supposed to be doing, until then, I'm waiting for the right

person to come along that says, I see your vision. I share your

vision. Let's do this. We've had investors come and go, and

we've, you know, have a couple of them that have stuck, but at

the end of the day, until the government sees what we're

trying to do and wants to do the right thing, and you know, put

the pride aside, put the power aside, and say, how do we help

you make this happen? And it could happen for everybody, a

lot of people, and it can be a global thing, but the powers

that be,

you just need somebody to take a risk, don't

you, or to, you know, in their eyes, take

a minute. Alabama legislation, this is election

year or election cycle, and I'm hoping that there's enough of

them who see the vision, who want more, because with federal

funding going away, our dependency on it is going to

constrain us. Seventh largest. We're the seventh highest

recipient in the nation for receiving federal funding. And

sadly, we probably, if there was an earthquake, Alabama could

self sustain itself just by all of the natural resources we have

here that we don't take advantage of and we don't

capitalise and utilise. You know, if Bubba's Bubba would

quit getting elected to Bubba's agency, maybe some of these

smart, intelligent people could actually take advantage of the

the God given benefits that we have here, because Alabama is an

abundance of resources, but we're not taking advantage of

it, and that saddens me, because we should not have communities

dry up the way they have, and it's not fair to ask people to

leave their hometowns to go get a job so they can take care of

their families. It's not fair. You know, we should be bringing

these jobs to their towns. We should be There's enough here

for everybody, and the abandoned minds are in those communities.

So it just makes common sense, but I'm waiting for the right

people to to see the same vision.

I mean, the last question I I always ask people

in this podcast is, what, what does your story look like for

the next five years? But I think maybe you just answered that

question without me even asking it.

Do you know? You know? I mean, it's just you wake

up every day and you you grind all day. God gives us a breath.

In my mind, I'm like, okay, so I messed up yesterday. He's given

me another day. Maybe I'll be better today. Maybe I'll get

lucky today. Maybe I'll say. Right thing, do the right thing,

or the right person will come along, you know, and we just

keep doing it. Laying horizontal just gives you bed sores. So and

feeling sorry for self isn't going to do you any good,

because nobody cares. You know what? I mean, it's it's your

problem, and you're gonna have to figure it out anyway. So I

just keep going, and I just hope that that person, or persons or

situation, you know that it it exposes itself, and that it's

there, and then it's kind of like that 30 foot tree out

there. It didn't grow to be 30 feet with one rainfall. You

know, you don't join the army one day and become a four star

general the next. So we just keep grinding until the next guy

comes along with I if I tire out and follow her, I hope there's

somebody there that heard enough and saw enough that they can

keep it going.

I'm sure there is. I'm sure there is. Well,

this has been such a an inspiring conversation. Lisa, so

how if people, if that person is out there, or those people are

out there and they want to get in touch with you. They want to

support you. How? How can they do that? What's the best way to

reach you?

You can reach out Lisa dot Ward, H, 2o energy,

us.com you can on social media platforms call Katie. She knows

everybody, and you'll connect because you're my good friend,

and you're not going far. But if nothing else, I just hope that

everybody's out there trying to do the right thing, you know. I

just hope, if they get any message from any of this is be

thoughtful of tomorrow and think about what we're leaving for our

kids, you know, be considerate of that. You know. Maybe you're

not into this, but you're into something else, and if it can be

a change, making opportunity for tomorrow, then let's just be

cognitive of that.

Love that. Okay, amazing. Lisa, thank you so much

for joining us. Thank

you. I just enjoyed it so much. Next time, let's do

tea. I

think you can open the wine now, but I'm going

to stop recording first, and that's what inspiring looks

like. Okay, here are my key takeaways. One, put yourself in

their shoes. If you're communicating with staff and

internal teams, those people are going to listen a lot more

closely to your message, if they feel seen and understood.

Remember when Lisa talked about going down that coal mine. She

said I wanted to learn their world so that me, above ground

in management, could understand how to make their world better.

It might be uncomfortable to do that. You might have to man up

and girl down, but the rewards will be worth it. Two Be

patient. Goals worth achieving are quite often worth waiting

for. Lisa has been working on H, 2o, energy for a decade. She's

determined to make a difference for her community and for the

planet, no matter how long it takes, and along the way, she's

sharing her vision of economic comeback for the rural

communities in her state, not just for the near future, but

for generations. She said it's just going to take somebody

caring enough about tomorrow to do something about it today.

Three, stick to your principles. Lisa said, I'm not compromising

my values and my moral compass. I mean, how brilliant is that

she recognised that in business. That maybe means things are

going to be tough, but she is steadfast in her integrity, and

that's surely something every business owner should emulate,

and four Be the change you want to see women can be leaders.

Lisa has three daughters and 10 grandchildren. She's a hugely

successful businesswoman and political strategist, and I

found it really inspiring to hear her talk about her hopes

and goals. I love what she said about the world needing to be

nurtured bit more mum energy. We should be able to lead them. She

said, We give birth to them and we raise them. We should be able

to lead them. Because if you can take care of a household, you

can take care of a government, you can lead Lisa's words,

awesome stuff. What a list of takeaways. So inspiring.

Massive. Thanks to Lisa ward for joining us. Do connect with her?

All the details are in the show notes coming up next time are

you feeling the ick?

I mostly work with women, and something that a lot

of them struggle with is actually promoting their

services confidently without feeling icky, without feeling

like they're doing anything, something bad. And so that's how

I got to this blend where, like I give them clarity on their

messaging, but also helping them feel like the one for their

ideal clients, like helping them do this concern. Listening until

it becomes a habit, and until it becomes normal, and then they

don't need me anymore, and they can keep doing that with the

same motivation, with the same confidence and strategy for

years to come. Basically.

Jardinezzoli, marketing message, mentor and

strategist, is here to help us all tell stories with clarity

and confidence. It's another cracking episode, and if you're

looking for someone else's voice to tell your story, remember you

can always give me a shout. I'd love to help. I'm Katie Flamen,

and this is storytelling for business until next time.

Goodbye. You.