[Music]

greetings and welcome to the talk with

History Podcast I am your host Scott

here with my wife and historian Jen hi

on this podcast we talk about history's

continuing impact on us and our personal

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to explore record and share our history

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[Music]

today

we have a topic that everybody's heard

about this is a Big E and if you grew up

in the United States you learned about

the assassination of President Abraham

Lincoln

on April 14 1865 John Wilkes Booth shot

the 16th president in Ford's Theater

cementing himself in American history as

the notorious criminal that he was

but

did you know that Abraham Lincoln was

supposed to watch a different play at a

different theater that night

to John Wilkes Booth know that or was he

just lucky

Jen I think that's what made this video

so interesting is I kind of found out

that little tidbit of information

probably about a week before we went to

DC and I thought oh this would be a

really great way to open walk with

history and that's how we open it we

open at the Lincoln Memorial

on the mall we open with that question

that he actually had tickets to the

National Theater to see Aladdin that

night and John Wilkes Booth knew he was

going to the National Theater and he had

bought tickets to the box right beside

him

knowing that that's where he was going

to be that night but as we all know he

went to Ford's Theater so

my question was

would Booth have known would would

things have been different if if Booth

hadn't found out that he was going to

Ford's Theater and if you watch

with history I kind of explained about

how he finds out he actually goes to

Ford's Theater at noon

the the day of the 14th to get his mail

and the theater owner says to him oh the

Lincolns have rsvp'd for tonight's play

our American cousin because it was a

comedy and Mrs Lincoln wanted

um her husband to to laugh and because

this was only a week after yeah one week

after the end of the Civil War at the

end of the Civil War and one of the

things that you did a good job in the

video of was was emphasizing how famous

John Wilkes Booth was and comparing him

to

famous actors of today he'd be like a

Brad Pitt or Denzel Washington like

A-list A-list Tom Cruise A-list like

to that extreme of an A-list actor where

you would see them walk in and you

wouldn't even question their access

because they're just that high up on the

echelon right we have friends who work

in the military and they've met High

Echelon actors because they feel like

they have that kind of closeness to

military members and so that's who Booth

was and and as a general right as a non

history geek myself I I just didn't know

that right I thought he was like

planning and scheming and like had to

sneak in and all this stuff and he

really yeah because of his access he

just kind of walked in because he's John

Wilkes Booth like he had performed there

like the night before a couple nights

before and he performed at Ford's

Theater all the time so all of the staff

there they they see him come in or like

oh yeah you know Mr Booth come on in you

know and use like you said he was

collecting his mail there they think

nothing of it they think he's just going

to say hi to the president when he goes

into his box if Ford's Theater they're

just thinking he's gonna say hi check in

and he has that access he's so famous

what's interesting about this video is

it's like 12 locations so it's one of

our like

when it comes to locations the most

saturated so when you think when you

walk if you watch this video we're going

to all these different places and trying

to show you how that night

the conspiracy was to kill not just the

president but the Vice President Johnson

and Secretary of State and I say his

name wrong in the video it's Seward but

I say it's c word the whole time I'm a

name butcher just putting that out there

and so people have corrected me it's

spelled like c word right but it's

pronounced Seward so um so we go to all

those locations because this was a

conspiracy to [ __ ] the Union

they wanted to take out all the top

leadership at one time so that the South

had its opportunity to rise again but it

started out as a kidnap plot right and

it started out at uh what's the what's

the house Mary Mary sarad so John serrat

her son was a it was a spy for the con

for the Confederacy and he basically

helps start this whole kidnap plot and

the kidnap plot was to kidnap Lincoln

take him to Richmond trade him for all

these Confederate prisoners of war that

was the whole plot before the end of the

war

now that the war is over it switches

quickly as you can see to a

assassination plot and

Lincoln we show this in the video we'll

give a very famous speech right after

the surrender

and Booth is at that speech now

and then he makes a comment like that'll

be the last speech he ever says and so

this is another thing that happens to us

is you had edited that video and you had

used

a snippet of that speech from the movie

Lincoln right with Daniel Day-Lewis

right and

then you had used the picture from

something else and you said this is the

picture from that speech well it wasn't

that speech was his inauguration speech

and the picture was something else so

people kind of caught us on that so we

were just trying to show proximity how

he had that access to the president yeah

and again it's not like

John Wilkes Booth had to sneak into

wherever the president was giving

speeches he was John Wilkes Booth he's

an A-list actor and and honestly back

then people could just go attend the

president's speech they didn't have to

have an invitation yeah but it was that

speech that just kind of like ignites

the fire he was really like

strong strong Southern sympathizers okay

that that speech ignites this fire that

held he said that's the last speech the

president will ever give like he's very

on fire about that so that's when he

meets with Powell and asarat and he's

like we're we're killing everyone

tonight we're gonna kill them yeah now

the and these were the other

co-conspirators and again to paint the

picture for people who haven't seen the

video yeah we we kind of we set the

scene with all the players we do Mary

sarrod and the co-conspirators of John

Wilkes Booth right those are some of the

most famous folks yeah so John Wilkes

Booth is going after Lincoln Powell is

going after c word and asarat is going

after Johnson Johnson's the vice

president seaward Secretary of State

those are who they put in place

to do the actual act and then you have

supporters right so there's like John

Sarat Mary Sarat Harold who we talk

about a couple times Harold is with

Booth when he's killed yeah and then one

of the things that I found interesting

was kind of how coordinated this group

was like you said all on the same night

they were going to try to they changed

from kidnapping to assassination but

they were going to try to assassinate

three different people yeah all at the

same time all at the same time and all

in very close proximity yeah so they try

to do it around 10 pm because they don't

want one to be done and then it sets off

this you know

what's going on and everyone gets high

security around them they want

everything to kind of happen at the same

time right and I think

you have unfortunately Booth is the only

one who's successful right right so you

we do a really great job in the video if

you watch it Powell is I mean he's ready

to fight he gets into seaward's house

and see where it's in Seward's house

Seward's house Seward's house was

actually right by the White House right

next to the White House so we went and

that was another cool thing of what we

get to do with our videos is we were

there standing in front of the White

House as close as you can get right now

yeah it's it's pretty well fenced off so

we were standing next to some uh kind of

protester oh yeah spot or something like

that but I didn't realize how close you

know he was the Secretary of State yeah

um how close it was to the White House

yeah he was right there and then it was

two or three blocks away it was the

hotel

and that's where um Johnson was staying

but Powell like he gets in that house

he's and he stabs him he he he injures

eight people he injures eight people he

kills no one he injures four of Seward's

children

and then like the nurse and the security

guard and Seward he stabs him in the

cheek and he stabs him in the neck and

so much so that this blood everywhere so

you would think that he did kill him but

it was with such force that he grabs him

and he's an older gentleman plus he just

was in a carriage accident so he's kind

of convalescing in his bed

and he grabs him with such Force

probably has a lot of adrenaline that he

stabs him twice in the face kind of

slips off and then he actually ends up

like pushing him off the bed and that's

what saves his life because he gets

behind the bed and then by that time his

kids his two his sons who grab him and

pull him out and they basically like

basically fight him out the house

and then people aren't really sure where

pal goes from there because he'll show

up at Mary sarad's house a couple days

later he shows up exactly as the

investigators are there to question mark

if he walks in too and it's like okay I

didn't remember that so they arrest both

of them well

this is one of my favorite videos to

edit because I just kind of stumbled

across I would try to clip in funny

movie scenes to to kind of lighten the

mood of some of these things or

something that's kind of in reference to

whatever we're talking about and asarot

he basically goes and he's supposed to

try to attack the vice president Vice

President Johnson who's at the Kirkwood

house which is it's like a first class

boarding house right and he ends up

sitting in the hotel bar in the hotel

and gets just smashed and he gets he

gets smashed and if you've ever seen if

anybody listening has ever seen old

school yeah so the Will Ferrell movie

that made him famous is Frank the tank

so I clip in a scene of Will Ferrell

saying no no I can't drink at some

college party yeah right because he's

part of the fraternity and then all of a

sudden like then he starts drinking more

and more and then he's streaking down

the street and so so and by himself and

so I kind of cut that in in with what

asteroid did because essentially that's

what happened with Astro that's what

happened with that that's right he just

kept asking questions where's the vice

president and is he in his room is he is

he going to be there all night and so

people were wondering why is he keep

asking these questions about the vice

president so he notices that he's

raising suspicion and so he wanders out

of the hotel and he's by that time he's

very intoxicated and he wanders around

he drops a big knife in a gutter a lady

sees him do it she and that she tells

the police what she saw and so then he

is arrested again he never even attacks

the vice president but he will be

executed because he is part of the

conspiracy and Kirkwood house which is

not there anymore but we stand at the

address that is where Johnson will be

inaugurated so I make the mistake on the

video saying that he's inaugurated at

the Peterson house that's where Lincoln

passes away it's the boarding house

across the street from Sports theater

Johnson will go there after Lincoln is

shot and he will visit him but there but

he's told to leave and he says that he

basically Paces his suite at the

Kirkwood house the rest of the night and

it's that next morning that he's told

because Lincoln will pass away at 7 22

a.m that he's told that Lincoln has

passed and so he gets he thinks it's

poor taste to be inaugurated anywhere

else then his location so the Justice um

the the Supreme Court Justice comes to

the Kirkwood house and swears him in on

April 15 1865 at the Kirkwood house yeah

and it was it was actually really cool

because we did this we were out there

visiting in DC we were hanging out with

family for a few days

um and we had done a bunch of right is

we were doing history stuff there's

history everywhere there we had done the

mall we had been to Arlington partly

already and we had done a couple of them

Mount Vernon and so we got lucky right

your mom was watching the kids and we

just it took us all of like three-ish

hours to film this we would you have to

plan it out we planned it out and we

were we were moving fast we were moving

fast but you could walk it relatively

easily in an afternoon or a morning you

could and this was a really great video

for for our walk with history just what

we wanted to do with like a map right

like have access to a map that coincided

with our episode so you could walk

the places that we're walking because we

we go to all the locations um we'll go

to baptist alley which is really cool

that's the alleyway behind yeah and yeah

and it looks the same so that's what's

really cool about it it's you can

imagine John Wilkes Booth coming out

that stage door getting on the horse and

I'll just kind of toot my own horn here

I think I do a good job in the video of

just kind of setting the scene and

getting some sound effects and kind of

we're standing right there literally in

the alley looking at the doors where

John Wilkes Booth ran out jumped on a

horse and hauled butt out of town yeah

and and so I I do a decent job of kind

of showing that you know and getting

those sound effects and you really feel

like oh man this is must have been what

it was like yeah yeah so it's it that

was real that was to me one of the

neatest things because not a lot of

people are gonna go find Baptist alley

but everybody's gonna go over to Ford's

Theater and do stuff like that you'll

see the Peterson outside yes you'll do

both of those but to walk around the

back that was really neat and to see the

Escape Route of Booth was that was

really neat and we go to we went to Mary

sarat's house

[Music]

but I think what was really cool what we

did in this video is we actually go to

Fort McNair right with where the

conspirators were the conspirators were

hung and not a lot of people you have to

have base access to go there you're not

allowed to just go there and see it I

mean we have to show our IDs to even get

on there and we had been to Fort McNair

before for a wedding yep and you could

pump you could see that location from

the Officers Club where the wedding was

but where we stood where the

conspirators were hung yeah and

you know they they hung for 30 minutes

and they made a and this is Mary Sarat

right she's the first woman executed

by the American U.S government

officially and I was surprised when I

was making the video that I mean there's

there's pictures there's pictures of

that hanging hey you can see if you

Google it you can look up pictures of of

those Lincoln assassination conspirators

being hung yeah and um they really hung

her to try to get John her son because

he had fled

he he claims that he was he did not know

about the assassination which it could

be possible because right we said booth

made this a quick judgment right we're

not going to do the kidnapping we're

gonna make this so he claimed that he

was just a part of the kidnapping plot

change the assassination plot he did not

know that he heard about it in New York

he flees to Canada he's able to make it

across the ocean to Liverpool he's able

to make it to Italy and then as he's

trying to go from Italy to Egypt he gets

caught oh I didn't know that and then

he's brought back to America and he's

not brought back to America until I

think it's 1867. so we actually had

people like hunting him down over there

in Egypt yeah I mean Lincoln was a

well-loved president yeah you know and

so then he goes months after his mom's

been killed and it's a two-month trial

and then it's just declared a mistrial

and then statute limitations found out

he lives out his life yeah he's the only

conspirator to really I mean you have

mud and you have other conspirators who

are sent to prison oh that's right I

forgot about Dr Mudd so Dr mud is sent

to prison and Dr Mudd as much as people

say he tries to claim that he has no

part of this he's actually the one who

introduces booth and Sarat he actually

did that in December of

1863. I didn't realize that and or 1864.

we'll talk about that in the movie

National Treasure so he sets Booth's leg

after it's broken and then again he

tries to claim he doesn't know who he is

he did it under duress but it comes out

that he actually introduced booth and

Sarat for the first time he actually

keeps Booth's boot I think after he sets

his leg because I think he thinks it's

going to be worth some money or

something so he's sent to prison and

it's actually President Johnson who will

release him from prison two years later

[Music]

story about

and all of this so like I said after

everyone's hung for 30 minutes they cut

them down

they put them in wooden boxes they put a

little glass vial with each of them with

their names and paper and they buried

them against the East wall of the prison

so right there at Fort mcmear yeah and

then two years later

he's Johnson has allowed them to dig up

the bodies and give him back to their

families to do with what they want and

he mud is released from prison and other

conspirators are released from prison

and this is I think another reason why

John serrat doesn't

go to jail as the mistrial because

Johnson wants to

heal the nation right so

laughs

in 1991

Powell's skull is found at the

Smithsonian

Museum of America of Native Americans

with a group of skulls

and for some reason they get a pal skull

with this group of skulls in 1991 and

they don't even know how they have his

skull why do they have his skull all

they can go back to is in 19 in in 1867

they allowed the bodies to be dug up and

go back to their families

so what they found is that Powell's

family didn't claim his body

in 1867 so he was buried in some

Cemetery in DC like a poppers cemetery

and that this is this is an interesting

story because sometimes when you look up

pal it'll say pal Payne yeah you

remember that like the last names are

kind of interchangeable so in 1885 this

Army Medical Museum gets this skull with

a pea stenciled on it and it says pain

and it says a criminal executed by

hanging

and they're able to put in place and put

it back into place that this is actually

Powell this is Powell's skull we have

his skull and so they keep it for a

while and then they give it to the

Smithsonian in 1898

and for some reason it gets put in with

the Native American collection

and so then in 1991 when it gets brought

over to the Smithsonian in their

collection they're like okay so what do

we do with this skull it's definitely

not Native American and we're not going

to keep it so they find the 70 year old

niece of Lewis Powell and they they take

two years to verify that she's actually

his niece and they ask her what you want

to do with the skull it's your family's

skull and she decides to have it buried

with his mother so I think it's

somewhere in the south in Georgia that

his skull history is such like the

weirdest thing like you know what that

reminds me of is

um what was the movie with Matthew

McConaughey Savannah yeah right and so

in part of that movie he's hunting down

these gold medallions yes like Sahara

Sahara Sahara and his buddy starts

saying he's like well you know my dad

collects coins he's like okay well

what's your point he's like well my dad

collects coins from all over the world

and coins they just end up in someone's

pocket and they travel here and they

travel there and all of a sudden they

end up somewhere else

right it's the same thing when you have

something of such historical impact and

characters like that yeah here's this

guy's skull traveling from place to

place for decades and even the

Smithsonian can't so you'll you'll I

read a little like they they try to

think where his body is

why isn't the skull with the body they

have some theories but they don't know

for sure exactly what the body is they

think it was somebody in the popper

gravesite area who knew who he was and

got kind of excited and dug up his goal

that's what they think it was

[Music]

now if I remember right one of the

things you pointed out in this video was

that after this assassination that's

kind of when the Secret Service really

became more of a thing was that after

this one so it's it's a little bit after

this one but it really

I think it gets really more amped up

after Garfield's assassination okay so

Lincoln is the first assassination and

then Garfield will be the second okay

and also the government's like okay yeah

we got to start protecting our president

so that's it's really after Garfield I

mean and what's really funny about all

this is poor Robert Todd Lincoln that's

right right so we talk about this like

Robert Todd Lincoln was at the surrender

Abraham's son Abraham's son his oldest

son his only surviving son he is only

one son that will survive to adulthood

and live out his life it's his oldest

son and he is at the surrender at the

Appomattox Courthouse he is with Grant

when Lee surrenders so he makes it back

to DC he's tired his parents ask him if

he wants to go with them to

The Voice theater he says no I'm tired

his younger brother takes the tickets to

the other show to Aladdin Tad he goes to

Aladdin Robert stays home and rests

then Lincoln's assassinated he makes

sure Tad gets home he makes sure Ted is

taking care of guarded and he goes to

the Peterson house and he sits with his

father until he passes

then when Garfield is president he's

made Secretary of War Garfield has a

great respect for Lincoln Garfield was a

union general in the Civil War he makes

Roberto Lincoln as Secretary of War and

he is with him in the train station when

he is shot by Charles God Robert Lincoln

is there and what's what's neat about it

though is this is when the government

has paid for Arlington and they get the

deed and it's actually because he's

Secretary of War it's Robert Lincoln who

will actually accept the deed of

Arlington

and then when

McKinley is assassinated in 1901

Robert Todd Lincoln is is also there

he's standing outside the front door and

so that's when the Secret Service really

gets ramped up after that assassination

that's a third assassination and he also

bows out a public life after that

because he gets very as you can imagine

he's been with the three presidents that

have been assassinated yeah he's Famous

by by position and vices so he feels he

needs he feels some white and I wouldn't

say responsible but he just feels like

he's in the wrong he's not a good luck

charm so he he's like I'm tired of being

around here

so he'll he'll respectfully respectfully

decline any invitation

um but he is there when the Lincoln

Memorial is dedicated he'll be there

with Taft oh cool Taft will be the

president to dedicate the Lincoln

Memorial and he'll be there for that so

he probably like was like

swallowing real hard that day yeah

looking around and watching Everybody

yeah I mean it really was that I think

more than some of our other videos

really you really feel like I am walking

where they walked I was you really for

as kitschy as it is we felt like we were

walking with history it was really cool

and and so that we we film our opening

from the Lincoln Memorial right and so

it's it makes it it glows at night right

because they keep all the lights on the

Lincoln Memorial really bright and then

they darken everything else around it so

you can really see it from everywhere on

the mall it's really like a statement

and we we filmed our opening there

because it's not as crowded at night too

and I could kind of Stand By The Statue

and not have a lot of people but when we

were sitting out on the steps there is a

it is kind of engraved in the granite

where Martin Luther King had stood for

his I have I have a dream speech and

during the day you can see it just fine

and tons of people will take pictures

metal plaque that's on the ground no

it's just engraved into the marble oh

that's right it's nothing there if you

some people can't see it at night and

people would be looking and looking so I

would turn on the light on my phone and

just shine it for people remember it was

I know exactly what it is I would like

it's right there and so people would be

like oh cool and they would take

pictures but if you didn't know

it just Blends in because it's just

again it's just engraved and it's pretty

dark it's very dark and so we had

something happen while we were there so

DC is like any big city where you can

rent the Scooters or the bikes yeah with

the app and yeah and we had walked down

from the Lincoln Memorial over to the

Water by the mall and we were standing

there and it was very it was a great

night it was just really nice and calm

and a couple guys had rode by us on

their bikes but like I said it's very

dark and if you're by that area there's

different levels there's a bunch of

stairs and steps and different levels

and you don't notice them and one of

these guys just took a header into

probably a piece of marble that was

probably waist high yeah he did not see

it and you just heard that bite because

it's like plastic it was so loud I

actually thought and I think a lot of

people around thought like some some

sort of explosive had gone off it

crunched that bike you'd hear the

plastic like crunching and it's friends

were like whoa dude are you okay and

he's like oh man like he and he was like

yeah eight or nine o'clock at night we

almost were like an aggression when he

was okay he got up yeah and he walked

around so he seemed okay but it's kind

of dangerous you have to really be aware

you definitely have to be careful you

definitely have to be careful

um but it it really was

probably one of my favorite videos to

make yeah just because everything was so

accessible yes and it's DC right so

you're just kind of in that DC cloud of

like oh my gosh look at all this history

and these monuments and all these things

and we have other videos and we'll do

another podcast talking about the

Washington Mall yes

but this one was just you've everybody's

learned about the Lincoln assassination

and here you and I are walking through

down the streets next to the buildings

of where it actually happened yeah it's

it is like like you said we're walking

in time we're walking in history and

you can compare photos of then and today

which is so neat like finding the

locations is you can compare

this look like this and this look like

that and you know basis the the basic

layout of DC has not changed at all so

you can find all of those locations

which is really great and even when you

look at pictures like when the Lincoln

was assassinated the Washington Monument

was being made it had stalled for about

20 years during the war so it's like

halfway built but Lincoln saw the

Washington Memorial being made like he

knew that that was going to be there I'm

sure he had no idea that Lincoln

Memorial would be there but he knew the

Lincoln the Washington Memorial was

going to be there so you can imagine

these people you're you're in the places

where these people were

which is really cool again this is

probably one of my favorite videos to

make not only just filming but also

editing I got to do some fun stuff we

talked about Maps kind of a little

foreshadowing to something that we hope

to do in the future uh maybe you know

with a patreon page about you know our

walk with history maps

we'll see

but Abraham Lincoln had an impact on

history that it cannot be understated

right he was a star that burned just a

bit brighter in A Sky Full of historical

brilliance

and while there'll always be bad actors

throughout history like John Wilkes

Booth that try to extinguish the flame

of those who burned so bright

these Giants of History they generate so

much interest

that we will not soon forget that light

that they shine

for it echoes throughout history and we

walk in their footsteps every day

so thank you for listening to the talk

with History Podcast and please reach

out to us at our website talk with

history.com that's talk with history.com

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we'll talk to you next time thank you

[Music]