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greetings and welcome to the talk with

History Podcast I am your host Scott

here with my wife and historian Jen on

this podcast we talk about history's

continuing impact on society to today

as we try to teach you what we have

learned in our personal journey through

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main topic today before we introduce our

topic

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a lot of folks know

that the United States has the nickname

Uncle Sam

but a lot of people don't know that the

United States got the nickname Uncle Sam

because in 1813 there was a meat Packer

named Samuel Wilson from Troy New York

Samuel Wilson supplied barrels of beef

to the United States Army during the War

of 1812 and he stamped them with U.S for

United States

and eventually the soldiers began

referring to the food as Uncle Sam's

after Sam Wilson

a local newspaper picked up the story

and Uncle Sam eventually gained

widespread acceptance as the nickname

for the U.S federal government

but where did Uncle Sam's iconic image

come from

so Jen we're going to talk about that so

why don't you tell us about our subject

today so before Ringling Brothers before

Barnum and Bailey there was Dan Rice and

today we're going to talk about Dan Rice

he is

the most famous person you've never

heard of yeah and

he was our

fifth episode

of walk with history and so why are we

picking these subjects

so number one I found that interesting

that we get our depiction of Uncle Sam

from this circus clown personality named

Dan Rice

and that he was he had a winter home

from

1953 to 1975 in the town next to us when

we lived oh yeah 1853 so 1853 to 1875 in

the town next to us

um in Erie PA in Gerard yes so the whole

premise of walk with history is to have

personal access to the locations so

there's a marker in the town and we

would drive by it and we would read it

and I was like there's more to this

story there's more to this person and so

we've heard about Dan Rice days yeah so

the first weekend in August Gerard does

a three-day weekend of Dan Rice days

they celebrate him they have a parade

they have vendors come out and celebrate

it's like a carnival and they've been

doing that since 1975 and so

um

I just wanted to learn more about this

so the the whole premise of walk with

history is not just very interesting

topics but access to those very

interesting topics so being able to go

to those locations yeah we are we are

literally walking in the locations where

history happened and we're we're looking

at these historical markers and we're

looking at not only the physical impact

but the the impact that has kind of

continued to resonate through today so

so talk about

talk about Dan Rice and kind of what he

did back then that was unique that made

him the most famous person that we have

never heard of

so Dan

born in Gerard he was born actually in

New York City in 1823 and like I said he

had the winter home for his circus in

Girard from 1852 to 1875 and that was

kind of the height of his popularity and

circuses you know they're traveling

exhibits they come from the Roman times

where you would bring

they used to be stationary were wooden

buildings where people would come and

visit and see horses and there would be

like combat and things like that Dan

Rice was one of the first people he

claims to be one of the first people to

use cannabis tents and move the circus

around

so because it used to be in arenas you

could see the circus in big towns with

big Arenas but once you start to have

access to a tent you can move the circus

to smaller parts of

the country

so now you're getting into rural areas

that don't have access to these big

buildings but you can have access to

large

fields and put up the tents and you're

bringing all of that culture to the

small town yeah and if I remember right

I mean you kind of drive home the point

in the video of for a lot of small towns

throughout America at that time in the

late 1800s

this was really

the only kind of outside influence in

outside culture outside anything that

they saw yes so this is like you're

getting these trains coming in all these

people menageries of animals and and

performance freak shows for lack of a

better term that's what they call it

Oddities so all of this access to small

towns that they've never had so this

influence of the circus it's a huge

influence on America's culture and so

the circus clown

in areas that are too long or too big to

hear speech the circus clown has this

dialogue that is spoken through

acrobatic skill or big demonstrative

movements or clothing and things like

that so the circus clown is using this

flamboyant acting to convey emotion and

a story to the people and so that's kind

of where you're getting this Universal

communication

from the circus clown to the people yeah

and if if we go back to our previous

episode right talking about Lucille Ball

and Vaudeville Vaudeville is kind of an

evolution yes of the circus so think

about these big performers and that's

one of the things I found so interesting

right even back then you didn't have to

speak

people in living in rural areas didn't

have to be able to read the signs they

didn't have to be able to

know this stuff right it was physical

comedy it's physical comedy and Dan Rice

they say is he was the the the birth the

idea of Vaudeville came from him

because he did these

shows he did a Vaudeville type show

novelty Acts were part of his circus

having the quick transition of novelty

acts and to do something in between

setting up the larger events he would do

little acts just like a Vaudeville show

so he they say he was the father of

Vaudeville and he would he would do it

so he would be wearing a flamboyant

outfit which was like the Star-Spangled

coat and the red and white striped pants

and a big top hat that's red and blue

and white with a white beard and so this

very patriotic American looking clown is

becoming the most they say if because

this is before radio before TV that he

he was a household name he was a pop

culture celebrity

in a time when you didn't have a radio

and TV yeah if if people think about if

they can picture some of those old

Ringling Brothers posters yes right the

things we know today because they kind

of outlasted

Dan Rice and his traveling circus a

little bit better right they they

translated further but when in doing the

research as far as making the video for

this I found posters I mean you just

Googled Dan Rice and you'll you'll find

a hundred different things and it's big

old posters and newspapers yeah I was

trying to think like what household name

would you think of

like Johnny Carson maybe to our hour

parents maybe to us maybe like uh Jimmy

Fallon like someone who's doing

commentary someone who's doing something

that he's a household name based on a

show that he's producing

daily or monthly or you know his circus

is traveling from town to town everyone

is aware of Dan Rice and so that is who

he is everyone knows him and for a time

it's the most famous show I mean he has

fans

Mark Twain was a fan Walt Whitman was a

fan so he's very influential I think

Zachary Taylor is a huge fan the

president is a huge fan so it's um

he does political commentary too yeah so

you mentioned Zachary Taylor the

president so so there's some there's

more that kind of evolved around right

politicians yes right it wasn't just the

president it was congressman and yeah so

he's making fun of both sides he's

making fun of I mean because America you

think in the 1850s there's lots of angst

going on This Is pre-civil War

there's a lot of different points of

views and since he's traveling America

he's inundated with these different

points of political view so what he does

is he makes fun of both he kind of gives

both sides a hard time for their

Ridiculousness and jokes about them and

I mean Zachary Taylor thinks it's funny

it's like almost being roasted kind of

thing he comes up he coins the term get

on the bandwagon so one of his shows

would have like a bandwagon jumping

around for different ideas and you could

jump on the bandwagon if that was the

idea you supported he also claims to

come up with the greatest show like that

was his coin term

so here's this man who has this huge

circus

and he decides to come to Gerard

to winter so what does that mean that

means in the winter months they would

come there they'd build these huge barns

these huge Arenas to practice their acts

over the winter and let the animals have

a chance to rest

and just convalesce for their winter

months with the circus so they're coming

into this small rural Town Northwestern

yes to bring this big huge circus that's

popular across America

into the small area so the people

at first aren't very welcoming

but he ends up he ends up marrying in

1861 he ends up marrying one of the

prominent businessman's daughter he

marries her on her 18th birthday he's 38

at the time yeah and

they you know they quickly have children

and

he gets accepted by the town and this

really puts the town on the map but in

our video and you'll see like why does

he picture yarn right like what's the

whole point and

this is kind of our one of our first

experiences with going to a graveyard

and using Find A Grave because it was

alegrippa Martin who is an animal

trainer and he actually is a famous

animal trainer he trained Hannibal the

elephant so again if you look up

famous circus acts Hannibal was a famous

circus yeah and even I right again not a

his not a history buff even I was like

I've heard of that particular elephant

yes so this is before elephants are I

mean they're being brought over to

America and again they're being shown to

the the country and they're training

them so Hannibal they would train him to

kind of like

you know stand on one foot and swing

from the tusks and I know it sounds

crazy but he people would swing from the

tusks and stuff like he would do those

things he was a trained elephant and

Ella gripper Martin was his trainer and

he was from Gerard

and he was friends with Dan Rice he was

part of his circus so when Dan Rice was

looking for an area he suggested his

hometown and that is why he brought it

to Gerard so we find his grave so you

know when you're doing this work most

cemeteries have an office where you can

go in and ask where is this grave

located Girard Cemetery does not

about what we were able to find was a

picture of the Grave so you and I drove

around trying to match that picture yeah

and I believe you said the the website

that we use and if folks I've never

heard of it's called find a great yeah

it's great it's it's a fantastic website

it works very well but we found it and

we were able to stand this if you watch

the video we stand there but like I'm

I'm learning things along the way we

missed like he Dan Rice's widow

um Charlotte

his his wife that he marries 18 year old

that he marries

um Charlotte McConnell is actually

buried there

so we didn't go to her grave they

actually have one of their children is

buried there we didn't go to their grave

so we there was more things we could

have seen there that we didn't go to

um they actually they actually get

divorced in 1881 so they're only married

for 20 years

but and I don't think she ever remarries

and she stays there in Gerard yeah and

and one of the interesting things about

these videos

especially when we're when you're

filming at a location where it's

relatively Rural right we lived in the

Erie area for a couple years

and learning stuff from the locals so

I'll tell you one thing that I learned

while while making this video so I and

it was actually after the after we made

it or maybe just before and I remember

being at work and talking to now retired

Navy chief angelikowski

and I remember saying hey yeah we were

just down in Gerard and we were filming

this thing and I ended up talking

somehow this Dan Rice came up and the

monument there's a monument in Gerard

yes there's like a kind of a pedestal

it's a civil war Monument Civil War

Monument right so I start talking about

the monument and he just looks at me

he's like and I see this the look on his

face and he's looking at me like I know

more than this about you

and all of a sudden so I stopped talking

and he's like well do you know why the

eagle that's on top of the monument is

facing the direction that it was and I

was like oh I'm about to get a lesson

and he starts telling me how the eagle

is facing west because that's where yes

that's where the person who made is from

Chicago is from Chicago the person who

made the monument he starts telling me

all these facts about Dan Rice yes rice

days and all this stuff and that's one

of the cool things about doing these

YouTube

videos and our history walks is we talk

to people from the area yes and you'd be

surprised when you do things like this

at how much local people know like oh

yeah I've been doing Dan Rice days for

like my whole life exactly from Gerard

and they just kind of rattle off all

these things about

again the most famous person that we've

never heard of we've never heard of and

so you have the marker there so what

he's talking about is a civil war in

1863 Dan Rice commissioned a civil war

Monument to go up in the middle of

Gerard and it's a pillar not an obelisk

and it has an eagle on top and it's he

commissions it by um a sculptor named

Valk and Valk is kind of famous he did

Abraham Lincoln's death mask

that's right so

he's commissioned to do the sculpture

and he pays all this money for it and he

brings it in huge 10 000 people show up

and the city again this is two years

after he has married Charlotte

people think is he doing this to get in

our good graces because this is

considered the first U.S Civil War

Monument to be erected in in

the us because it's the very first one

yeah because it's 1863. Civil War isn't

even over yet oh wow so

is he doing it to get in everyone's good

graces is he doing it because he

actually feels this way no one knows for

sure I kind of talk about that on the

video but he commissions it it comes

into huge Fanfare and it's it's erected

right in the middle it's still there

today

and so we show all of it and what's also

neat

is the city is proud of Dan Ryan so they

still have the pillars

markers and they have the two lions that

were in front of his house that are in

front of city hall and then the pillars

there's four pillars so two of them are

right there by the monument and two are

where we used to take the boys to

baseball remember they had they moved

the two pillars there too so they they

keep that history in and they eat those

used to Marcus property lines desert

Marcus property lines for his house his

huge mansion that he built and then they

also have that big mural and that's kind

of where we talk in front of in the

video and we depict his outfit and how

that outfit was used as the model

for Harper's Bazaar when they depicted

when they drew Uncle Sam they drew Uncle

Sam off of what Dan Rice wore when he

was the clown in his circus yeah so if

people get a chance to go watch the

video it's it's very interesting but

this mural we're standing there for a

while so it's not a quick picture you

get to see it for quite a while you'll

see this character and you think like

that's just a poor copy of Uncle Sam and

it's actually not that's actually the

the depiction of Dan Rice in his

standard what became standard Dan Rice

circus costume that Harper's Bazaar who

ended up coming up with that Uncle Sam

poster the I want you yeah and you see

that all the time they based it off of

him and that's Uncle Sam I mean that's

the representation of the United States

if you say like this picture oh you're

like oh that's Uncle Sam all right

that's yeah I mean school health Rock I

think would use him talking to people as

America like this is America talking so

yeah that's Dan Rice so he's like again

the famous person you never heard of and

there's a book

um that has that same title that goes

all into his life and gives all the

information but um yeah that's why we

picked that video that's why we did it

and I think we did it on a day date so

made it easy for us to film it yeah

without the kids yeah and it's

interesting because we talk about some

pretty famous comedians have kind of

mentioned him yeah you know like Jon

Stewart yes yes like folks like that

right political commentary it is birthed

you know he we call him we in the video

we kind of call him the father of

political commentary and back then that

was part of his circus act just making

fun of the people that everybody know

and back then it was politicians the

president stuff like that yeah and so

and his after he divorces Charlotte and

he kind of succumbs to alcoholism his

star falls relatively quickly and then

after the Civil War

and I talk about this

after radio after the Civil War really

after World War II circuses basically

fall because you have TV you have access

to exotic animals and great shows and

movies and it really it transitioned

right think think of the transition of

circus to Vaudeville yes to television

Television right so think about the

podcast that we've done we've done Dan

Rice circus we've done some Vaudeville

folks Bob Hope Lucille Ball yes on to

television Jimmy Stewart Jimmy Stewart

and Lucille Ball and again Bob Hope as

well so there's that there's an

interesting transition there there is

that I never

again I don't think you until you

started learning about Dan Rice was just

like holy cow like this guy

the the Ripples and in history and time

that he has left people see them but

they don't know that he was the stone

that was dropped in the lake

he did it and so

yeah and he he dies pretty penniless and

obscure I think his his grave is in New

Jersey I think people still leave

flowers and things but

um he has his last tour in 1885 and then

he dies in 1900 at 77 years old so

most people have forgotten Dan Rice but

his impact is still felt today for sure

anytime you see political commentary

that's Dan Rice started all of that and

he it worked it was the people want to

see that the people want to see when

they're being ridiculous in their ideas

and they I think people still want to

laugh at themselves and he was very good

at doing that and people today you know

when they're really good at doing that

as well yeah yeah so yeah this was just

such an interesting one to make because

it was a Small Town Pennsylvania but

here's this historical character who

really when you learn about him and the

effects that he had

um it's just super interesting so again

not many people know Dan Rice the circus

performer but most people do know that

iconic image that inspired the Army

Recruiting posters with our very own

Uncle Sam on there pointing at you

with that statement of I want you for

the US Army

and while Dan Rice may have passed away

to little Fanfare his impact on society

Echoes throughout today

through the political commentary of so

many late night Comedians and even

through something as simple as inspiring

the phrase jump on the bandwagon

just as we hope you our listeners are

jumping on the talk with history

bandwagon today

so again thank you for listening to the

talk with History Podcast and please

reach out to us at our website talk with

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appreciate you all every day

we'll talk to you next time

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