Welcome to the Complete Game podcast where we're all about baseball with Ethan Dungan, owner of Glovehound Baseball glove repair shop. Rick Finley, founder of MDNI Baseball Academy and the creator of George Foster Baseball, the MVP himself, Reds hall of Famer George Foster. I'm your host, Greg Dungan. Now let's talk baseball. All right, well, welcome back to was this episode 414 now. So Thor, safe. Yeah. Looking forward to another great discussion here today. We're going to be talking about strategies for how to play all your players and still be competitive. We believe that it's possible and we're going to kind of share some ideas on how these fellows have done it from, from time to time and maybe offer some helpful suggestions to guys out there who are coaching, who are trying to remain competitive, but yet at the same time want to make sure everybody gets some playing time. So going to be doing that. Also wanted to want to shout out to our Reds for yesterday. They managed to dig themselves out of a possible first sweep and made that come through. So that was kind of cool.

42 in a row, not getting swept.

Yeah, that's pretty good. It's pretty good. So we're, we're kind of excited for them there. Ethan and I were at the game Saturday night, took Jose's glove back to him and went down and saw watch the game. That was a lot of fun. That's the first game I've been to in a couple years. So had had some good seats on the. On the first base side and yourself?

Yeah, we did.

We sat around some really great people.

Cash ladies. Enjoy that. Bring you bring your money.

Yeah, buddy. We sat around some really nice people and had a great time.

Got two. Two innings of free baseball at the end.

Two innings of free baseball. Yeah. So it was, it was a lot of fun. Had a good time. So. All right, well, let's kick it off today. We're going to start with Name five. So we're going to name five common reasons why players receive less playing or no playing time. So what are. And we're going to go around and everybody's going to give one and then we're going to decide on a fifth one here at the end. But we're going to take a look at what are the reasons why this problem happens and why it exists. So Ethan, want you kick us off and we'll kind of go around the table.

My first one is going to be lack of utility for the individual player because that is something that, that they can control. So maybe your primary position is a little clogged up. You got a lot of competition, but there's a weaker spot elsewhere in the field that you're just not willing to. To. To try to go out for something like that. So, yeah, mine's going to be positional competition or refusal to. To kind of try something else. I remember we coached a team. I was a football team, and we had a really, really good second baseman. Great second baseman, pitched a little bit. And there we. I don't remember exactly what the situation was, but I remember we needed. It would have been very helpful. Could he have played a little bit of outfield or played a little bit of third base? He's like, no, I'm a second baseman. We're like, okay, then I guess we're gonna. You're gonna have to sit and wait your turn or we had to do something else. So it just would have been helpful had he been a little bit more flexible in where he could play.

Cool.

I think that all should be discussed when you're trying out. Trying out.

Yeah.

Yeah. And letting the kids know, okay, we need a third baseman and you play second. If you're willing to play third, then fine. But that should be discussed during. Before that. Well, while you're doing a tryout or even before letting them know what we're looking for. Cause he plays second, but we're looking for a third baseman. But I. I know I was in the same situation back with. In the 70s. That's so long ago. And so I was with the Giants. So they had Bobby Bonds and this other guy. What's his name? Willie Mays, and then the guy named Ken Henderson. So I wasn't going to get a chance to play that much in the outfield. But third base was open. He said, we would like to play third base. And I said, I would like to stay in one piece. Third base is too close to the battery. So I declined. But they had me at first base a little bit. But it was okay until a Willie McCovey or Willie Starger came up. So I'm playing back on the grass because I don't want one carrying off my knee or so. But my reasoning is, I would say that a lot of times the coach is too concerned about winning and not developing. And I feel from the age of 8 to 12, let the kids make sure everybody play.

Yeah.

Then as you get into high school, then. Now you start to specialize, but making sure that you're not focusing on winning compared to developing. I feel that the winning is the byproduct or letting that kid go out there and to develop.

I agree, I agree with both of these guys and to kind of circle back around of kids playing other positions. I think that if parents would attend practice, you can see your kids strengths and weaknesses. You can't rely on practice to get better. If you don't practice enough outside of practice on their own, they won't get better, you won't get developed. So you can't point the, the blame on coaches all the time. I think that more parents and I get, at least from 8 to 12, they got to advocate a little bit for their kid. And then after that 13 and 14, then the kids should start advocating for themselves, asking the coach, you know, hey, can I play this position or whatever. So. And I'll keep it as that.

Yeah. I think one of the big reasons is a lack of practice time. I think it's hard for a player to prove that they have what it takes to play if all they have is game time. Like for instance, let's say you take your, the nine that you figure are going to be your regular starters. You got a couple of pitchers, but then you take some utility players or guys who come out, come on as pitcher only or that kind of thing. And if you only ever play games, then you know, those kids don't have a chance to show you they could play third base or right field or something and trust is not there. Yeah. And so when you don't have that opportunity to earn a spot by showing that you've got it, or let's say you bring on some players at the beginning of the year and you've got a whole season ahead of you. Well, let's say that one of those kids really is hungry for playing time and he's putting in all the extra work, he's taking lessons, he's doing everything he can do. And you know, by middle of the season, you know, this kid's built some skill and he could really show you something. But, but if there's no practice, no opportunity to do that, then he's kind of at the end of the season, he is what he was at the beginning of the season and there wasn't much he could do to, to prove himself otherwise. So a lack of practice time, if all we ever do is play games, that makes it tough.

I blame a lot of it on the coach and also on the parent.

Yes.

So I try to encourage the parent to ask the coach, do you, how much do you practice? Because I make, I know the importance of practicing. So not only helping the kid get better, but See what it can do best. Yeah. And I, I don't, I don't. I'm not in agreement that you change position every inning because if you haven't practiced, the kid doesn't know how to play that position. Right. Exactly what is going to be asked of me.

So.

And what I did also, I brought kids out maybe three or four and at a time so I can really focus on those kids. I know he need to work on ground balls or fly balls or just especially with the kid had good speed. I want to see him in the outfield to run down the ball. But back again is the coaches is important to practice and not say only games. And I like. I think a lot of coaches just play only games so you can get around not practicing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Another, another big one is carrying too big of a roster and just having too many players.

Yeah.

And that's, that's something that like, like you always advocate for. It should be addressed at a tryout.

Yeah.

But I played with some. With some teams who thought they were big stuff and carry giant rosters and that and playing time was always an issue. I played with some better teams who were less concerned about that, who carried much smaller rosters and didn't have that problem. And it's hard because you can't predict injuries. You can't predict when somebody's going to have a life issue that conflicts with playing time. But trying to keep that roster slim is. Is one of the easiest ways because it's just one less kid that has to get out there.

Right. I usually have maybe 12 and I made a bad decision before I went to like 15 thinking that okay there, but find out these kids are. The guy has good speed and at least work with him, getting him to the game to pinch run or get up there to bunt. But it's all of a sudden he was. He was more a football player. You know, just giving the ball because they know that, okay, I'll get the ball and run through this hole. But in baseball, even though the pitcher tells you it's going to be a fastball may not be in that certain spot. So he didn't have the baseball skill, but he had good speed. So having like 12, I think it's going to be good. But with. To piggyback on what Ethan said is for somebody getting injured. But you still can go out and find other players that are available and there's plenty of. You're not restricted to that season.

Oh yeah.

We go to some of these tournaments and find out that Some of these kids are playing for two and three different teams. Just, you know, they're bas. They're moonlighting with other teams, trying to try to get playing time, which is always interesting.

It's up to the coach, and it's on the coach. Because you chose the kids, right? It's your job to develop the kids. Now I've been in travel baseball. I didn't. I didn't coach select. There's a different element to it. And our mindset is first, we don't get kids. Again, this is travel. Not so much to win, but develop for high school and beyond. That was our goal. Now at select, there's a different. There's difference. I don't think there's so much pressure on being a select player. Now. This youth baseball industry has evolved a lot over the years and it's so divided from. You got select players because they play down, and then you got travel baseball players that play a much a better competition. Some might play up a little bit. So there's that, that, that divide there. And, and so I think that with that, you have different coaching abilities. You understand what I'm saying? There's guys that probably never. So they play at the select level, and then there's guys that have played, they played at the travel level, which is more competitive. Their goal is to get kids in the high school playing varsity, from varsity to there. So there's a stagnant. But it's been so broken, broken up. And I feel bad for everyone because I advocate for the players, the coaches and the parents, because they get drawn into something and then guess what? After it doesn't go right, they're jumping ship. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

I think you've got unrealistic expectations from the parents, from the coaches, from the organizations. We went over the stats in the first half of the season. If you haven't seen that, go back and listen to the case for rec ball. That was an episode we did where I laid out these stats. And the truth is, you know, in any given year, somewhere between 4 and a half and 5 million people will play baseball. And 3% of them will play in high school. And after you leave high school, everything else is degrees of 1%. College, minors, pros, everything is a degree of 1% all the way up through the highest ranks of the major leagues. And so the idea that, well, you know, we have to. We've got this kid and Johnny, Johnny's a got. He's got a shot, you know, he's got a shot. So we're going to have him be. He's. He's the shortstop every time the sun comes up. And we can't possibly ever platoon him or sub for him or, you know, anything else because, you know, and everybody thinks this and yes, there are some very talented kids out there. But keep in mind, we're talking degrees of 1% here. So unrealistic expectations from the parents on the coaches, from the organization, on the coaches, from the coaches of themselves. You know, it's, it's real easy to be tough on the coaches, but at the same time, the coaches are trying to, they're trying to serve the players, trying to serve the parents, trying to serve the organizations. And when people aren't dealing in reality, it makes it hard to do that.

And sometimes they're trying to serve their ego.

Thank you. That's the key thing right there. Egos. And then it puts pressure on those kids.

Oh, yeah.

Remember, the game is a lot of failure involved. These kids need to have fun and understand failure at the same time, man, because it's.

But it's a growth not only, yes, baseball wise, but emotionally, it's, it's being. Following directions and teaching. You got to be able to teach them. But I find I use a statement that you only can teach what you know. Yeah. Then I had to use the word you limited to what you know, if you haven't gone higher yourself.

Thank you. Thank you.

But you know, at the same time, though, I want to, I want to give some grace to these coaches, though. A lot of them, A lot of them are out there. You know, they're working hard. This isn't their job. You know, some of them may be getting paid, a lot of them aren't. And they're. You're trying to serve everybody in every direction. And when the, when the parents, the players and the organizations are not dealing in reality, it makes it really hard to do that. The other thing that I was thinking about is with regard to the, the playing time is the, the, the insertion of money. And we're going to talk about this a little later because I have a question that deals directly with it. Okay. But when you talk about what people are paying to play, what people are paying to travel, if the coach is being paid, if the, you know, what is everybody's expectation of that? So like, let's say I'm paying for Ethan to play in a certain organization, that's costing me however many dollars, and then I'm paying to go to all those things, and that's costing me and Then I know in my head that the coach is getting paid. Does the coach work for me? Well, does the coach work for the organization? Does the coach work for himself? It's very hard for us to keep that straight in our heads. I mean, I can tell you this from, you know, the experience that I've had in organizations. Well, I can tell you this. The experience I've had in just in church, okay? The number of people who will say, well, I put money in the offering plate, and they'll look at a pastor and say, I pay your salary. You work for me. And that's funny because I really thought that somewhere along the line, he worked for God. So, you know, it's. It can be that way when you. We have this. This mentality in this country. When we put down money, it's an investment and somebody. We're then owed a return. Yes, well, yes, you may be owed a return for paying to have your. Your child play at the same time. That return could be quality experience and should be quality experience. And so if you got to let the coach breathe a little bit in order to be able to give you that and the coach has to be interested in giving you that. And again, that's back to, you know, to interviewing the coach when you show up. We're going to do. We're going to do an entire episode here before long on how to interview a coach in a program at a tryout. That's going to be an entire episode.

Even before the tryout and how to.

Do the research on the parking lot. So that. That's going to be. That's going to be coming up before real soon. So you finished the season last year exhausted from all the travel and the tournaments, and you tossed your gear in a bag where it's been sitting all winter. Now you're ready for another year. But your favorite glove that fits just right is an error waiting to happen. The leather is dry, the laces are brittle, and this year you're on a new team with new colors. And it sure would be cool if it matched. Well, wouldn't it be great if you had a glove guy who could help you out with that? You do. His name is Ethan, and he owns Glovehound baseball glove repair shop in Fairfield, Ohio. Just contact him@glovehound.com and upload pictures of your glove. He'll give you a call back to talk it over, and then you can send it in for a repair. Relays, recondition, whatever you need. If you're in the area, you can even just Stop by the shop. That way you don't have to bother with shipping. And a lot of times he can even fix it while you wait. Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, All Star, Nakona, he's seen them all. And he's helped players at all levels, from beginners to pros. Last year he worked on a glove that Jose Trevino used in the World Series. And he can help you, too. You can find Glovehound on Google, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and on the web@glovehound.com you're only going to get busier. So reach out today and give your glove the love it deserves. At Glovehound, let's move on to the main thing. So my first question is, have coaches always struggled to play all their players or is this a recent issue? I'm asking this because, George, you played, you know, you were playing baseball, you know, long before any of us. Ethan, you're the latest guy to have played baseball and there's a good, you know, several decade span between the two. Has this always been a problem?

It hadn't been a. It's been a situation.

Yeah.

And it's not new and. But it's just a mindset of the coaches. And like I said earlier, the coaches, many of them go into coaching to win or have a trophy so that you have add to his trophy room where his man cave and the bottom line that they're not going in to help develop the kid. And I remember I had parents, you know, saying to me, you know, when are we going to start winning? When are you going to start winning? At that time I held my tongue, but I said, if I had that chance again, I'll let him know. Yes. But I just knew that I'm starting to put it together and there are kids that are not. Hadn't played much, but they have skills. So now finding what position they can play better. So now we can have. We would be strong at every position. But up to then I knew that, okay, take a deep breath and understand that we, long as we don't get blown out, sure be competitive out there.

So take me back though. Take me back all the way back to California. And young George is playing ball in California. And how did it. Was it like this back then? Was it. What was it like to be a young player coming up when, when you were doing it in the 60s, I.

Wasn'T really exposed to it a lot in California. It's not, not being arrogant, but I was one of the better players. So I was going to get a chance to play but back in high school though, my freshman year, because I wasn't as tall or big as guys my age. So the coach was really timid in letting me play cause he thought I was going to get hurt. So I made the decision to not go play my freshman year. And then I played. It's called middle league because I knew I was going to get a chance to play. So I saw the fact if I wasn't going to get a chance to play, I'm not going to go to this team and say with parents today and kids got to recognize that and. But I just feel. Still feel that it's working on skills and then I can go to. There's good tests in the minor leagues with the spring training.

Okay.

So now in spring training they have a lot of kids players coming because they're looking to see who's going to keep. They're going to keep in the organization. And so I was always trying to do more to get better. But they think that I'm jealous of somebody else getting more time. They say, well don't. Don't be concerned about you're. You're okay. I said I'm not. I just want to go out and get better. And so. But I had to do things on my own to get better. Not waiting for them to come to me.

Sure.

So I wasn't exposed to it as much when I was growing up. But I see it a lot because I guess monies were involved. Prestige or egos are involved. So as you get any coaches that are not really don't know the game and their parents like we give them credit for it, but parents who do not know the game. And I coached at a high school back in Connecticut and the kid, the coach was a teacher but he loved baseball. But he didn't have any idea how to play the game or teach the game.

So.

But a lot of factors come into play and. But that's why I got back into coaching because I want to let the. Try to let people know this is the way you coach and you want to make sure everybody plays. And I have one kid oh in practice. So it's getting dark out. And he was the last guy that we're doing soft toss. And later on the parent came to me. I thought the parents gonna say why did you have my kid last? But he said thanks for staying to work with my kid. I could have would say wait till the next day. But I felt that kid's going to be crushed if we did. So you gotta, you gotta. It's it's checking out not only attitudes, but mindsets of everybody. And you're not going to please everybody, but you have a, you have to have a set mindset what you want to do, and you may alter it later on, but you have a set core of things that you want to do well.

And you go back, go to like when you were in the majors. Let's go to, to the Big Red machine. Here you've got a guy like Dan Driessen, who's a fine player, and they, they found, you know, he had playing time. He maybe may not have been part of the starting eight, but he eventually was.

Yes.

And then he got a lot of, you know, found time. They're not going to have a guy like that who's good enough to be on the team that they're paying a salary to and they're just never going to use him. That's like, that's silly. No one's going to do that. You, you, you brought this guy on. He's obviously got plenty of skill and we're paying him. He may not be one of the, one of the starting aid at this point, maybe at this point, whatever, but you're still going to find a place to put him and get him in the game. So, you know, why would we run lower leagues any differently? Why would we run a youth league differently than they run it in the majors? If you're gonna bring a kid on, you did so because he has at least a minimum amount of skill. Why would you not use him? Somewhere, somehow, sometime on a regular basis.

They, some of them try to reinvent the wheel, but a lot of them, they don't. They're not as cons, they want to make sure that they have enough players. Yeah. And, and I found that sometimes when you get to the latter part of the season, those three kids have been sitting, setting, not even got a chance to swing a bat or get on the field. They end up quitting. And now the coaches get upset with the kid quitting. So why would they sit there and watch? Well, you got to be part of the team, but the reason they signed on is to play. And that, that's the mindset I know they want to play and finding playing time for them. So a good example what I did is a guy may start, a guy who started say on a Monday, he will may maybe not start that Tuesday, but he'll get into the game, pitch, hit, pit, run, doing something, being part of the game.

And see here, herein lies our next problem though is because if you only ever play tournaments now there you played on. You may have played on Saturday and Sunday, but there is no Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, maybe Thursday, Friday, the next week. We don't play those league games. We don't play as many games anymore. So there's not as much opportunity them all in. Everything's crammed in into, into four and six games in a weekend. And you're in the pressure cooker of having to win because everything's the playoffs, because it's a tournament. So that's a different thing.

I only did tournament play.

Yeah.

But I did practice so I got a chance to see what the kid could do. So. But I already mapped out how I was going to use guys. It's not waiting to the last moment, oh, that guy. Well, you go in. But the guy never played that position. So now it's going to really hurt the ball club. So I already knew I had a game plan on how I was going to utilize these guys.

One of the things when I started MDNI is I wanted to had rec players, but I had them play at a higher level just to see where they at. That's, you know, I wanted to test my coaching abilities to see how I can develop players. Okay. And then one of the things is yeah, we did play tournaments, but what I did was we played prac. We practiced twice a week. We had practice games. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Where you could just. And guess what we did during the practice games. We would, we would make it. We made a decision between the coaches that we will stop the game. To go over certain situations with kids, that's how you develop players right there. And it's not about the win and losses. And then when we went in the tournament, we, we played up. So we challenged kids. We did better playing up than we played kids at their own, at their own level. And I think that the way I came up playing, especially when we got to 13, we played 13, 14 and 15 is combined. So when I got into travel. Okay. When I first got into coaching, I loved the coaches that I was around because they weren't afraid to play up, wasn't afraid to. To play practice games. Man, it was more than tournaments and stuff. We did play tournaments. So the. One of the things that we did, we let people know, our parents know, dedicate at least five days a week to there. So that means two days of practice. What tournaments run twice and then maybe around Robin or something like that on that day, that's your five days. And the other two days is. That's towards players. But when you get to travel it is a business man. And people need to understand that my fault it is.

Calm down.

It is a business because we got people just throwing money away and thinking that, you know, they. It's a magic pill select travel and it's not. You got to put work in man, you got submissive.

Yes, but going back when I was ages of 13 to 15, so we played at 13, I'm playing against the 14, 15 year old so. So it I knew that I may not get as much playing time when I was 13, but then I'm with 14 and 50, I'm getting more playing time but at the same time I get a chance to play in a sense play up but in the same league. So I'm playing against this 15 year old and. But it gives you an advantage and you pitching from that same distance, the base is the same. So it was more competitive but the mindset was there. Okay, you're 13, you're going to play not as much as that 14 year old, right. You may give an given opportunity a good example though when I was in pro ball, so usually it's you're going from rookie league, single A, double A, triple A, major league. So but this comes into people getting motivated, getting that opportunity. So I always tell people be prepared for that opportunity. So now I'm preparing my first year after my first year in pro ball now we go to Fresno which is high single A. And so I overheard the when I was in the outfield and the coaches hitting me fly balls and I said why does he keep hitting me fly balls? There's other guys out there. And. And so a little boy said, you know, just let it drop, don't even go after the other boy said, you better check it out like Barry White, you better get it. And so I kept catching it. And then all of a sudden later on the it was a Decatur coach and the Fresno coaches said that Foster kid, you know, I'm looking for a center field, I think I'm gonna give him a try. I said, wow, what if I was gone out there and. And just not being hustling out there, right? And so I had a good year in Fresno, but then it was going back a step. So I was in fall ball. The fall ball coach, it was a. AAA coach. So he saw me play because I would one, he would look at the averages the first Sunday and he looked at the averages and said well I thought that kid would be much better. And I looked at it and it was me and I had an average that you would be playing? Bingo. It's.08.

So.

But by the time that season was over, though, I was at like 3.308or 309. But it was incentive.

Wow.

They, they, they're thinking that I'm better than what I think. And so now I'm. And Fresno again. We had to go to Fresno. And he walks by, say, if you have a good year in Fresno, I give you a chance to play aaa. I said, wow, aaa, I've dropped double A. And so I had a good year. And all that came true, but I was prepared for it.

Do you think that there is an issue of kids trying to specialize too soon now? The reason I'm asking, this is one of the things I learned. This was really cool. One of the things I learned from talking to Jose Trevino when he came up here. Jose was not a catcher until the minor leagues. Jose was a. Was a shortstop. He thought he was going to be the next Derek Jeter. Man, he was all over it. And it wasn't until the Miners that they said, you know, your ticket forward is going to be behind the plate if you want to do it.

Yeah.

And he's like, I was terrible. He said, I had to keep. I'm missing the balls. I had to keep running for him. I had to be, you know, he's like. But I worked and worked and worked and worked and worked at it until I was good enough. And he said, they were absolutely right. That was my ticket to, to the show. And so, you know, you got a guy who know, I'm a shortstop. This is what I do at that level. And even at that level, they're saying, no, you need to be flexible. You need to do some other things. Well, look at that, George. You wouldn't have, you wouldn't have had a shot to get in where you did if Pete wasn't flexible enough to say, sure, I'll, you know, I played this field, I played that. I'll go down and play, you know, third base. That's no big deal.

And I threatened him. No, but it's back to that phrase, being prepared for the opportunity. So I was playing every fourth or fifth day because I'm hit being platoon. So Willie Mays always said, be prepared for the opportunity. And even if you're not physically into the game, be mentally into the game, because that Sparky was May call on you. You want to be ready. And so I was batting eighth when I got into the lineup and actually leading the team in home runs at the time, batting Eighth, playing every fourth or fifth day. So I made that opportunity.

Right.

But working. I went to winter ball for two and a half years to get ready and learning. Learning that. And because you playing against major league experience there.

Yeah.

And so it gave me an opportunity to be prepared. But then now, the Reds weren't doing as well at the time, so now that was my time to shine. But I look back, I said, that was. That was quick, in a sense of. I didn't ever look at it. That was quick. I got into the lineup on a regular basis, like May 8th or so. And then all of a sudden, World Series. 75, 76. And I started to really come into my own. 76, 77, 78. Helped me out, leading the league in RBIs and home runs. Like, wow, this guy is a phenom. But last but not least, it goes way back when I got traded from the Giants to the Reds. And Bui Kuhn, I think, was the commissioner at the time.

Yeah.

And he said to me, the guys in Mason, those guys really have confidence in you, and they figure that you're. You're. What you're doing. You're better than that. Like, how does he know me? I don't have a jersey on. My name's on my back. But I said, wow, I better go out there and start working at it. Not just to be here, you know, feel I'm. I'm here. But I found that in 72. I said, yeah, we were. We got into the World Series, but I didn't really feel part of the team because I didn't get a chance to play much.

Yeah. It's funny, you know, when you finally got into the lineup in 75, and it's amazing how overnight sensations are made over a lot of years that nobody knows about, isn't it?

Right.

It's a rhyme.

They only look at the finished product, but the work that you put in.

Yeah.

It took a long time for you to be an overnight sensation.

Yeah. But I have to talk. Well, back to talking to people who've been there.

Yeah.

And Joe Morgan, Pete Rose, Willie Mays, because he's my idol. But being around guys who've done it. And Clementi, I'm asking him about playing the outfield things as such. So if you want to get better.

You want to work at George, what he just said, that whole speech there, that's how coaching should be. Being around people and absorbing that information, that's what make you a better coach. And that's what made me a better coach. And that's what makes you a better player, being around Maze and all those guys. Yeah.

So let me ask you guys this. So you know, George, you said when you coached, you played, you did tournament only, but you also figured out a way to have plenty of practice time. Is a coach limited in his ability to get everybody into the game no matter what he does? If all you play are tournaments, well, you still can.

It's like during the season, say the games are not tournament games. I would. Or even to get into the tournament, I would. I maybe bat 12, have 12, I bet 12. But now we were into the tournament itself. The heart of it. Then I'll bat nine. But I still have those three guys ready to go in to play. So they're going to get a chance to play.

Yeah.

And so it's just figuring out that way, not only being competitive is important, but getting them a chance to play is more important.

Yeah. I was gonna say there are creative ways around that, utilizing those pool play games to your advantage and especially to keep gu. That's a great opportunity to give guys, you know, new looks, to keep your main guys fresh, if you do have main guys. And then also the dreaded consolation game, man, nobody wants to. Nobody wants to play that, but it's an opportunity to play another game.

So.

And we, you and I both seen tournaments where people just bag it and go home. And I'm like, yeah, they throw.

They throwing away money.

Yeah, they pay time.

Yeah, no, exactly.

So I mean, you have nothing. You literally have nothing to lose. You already lost the tournament, so try something different.

You know, the other thing I've been wondering is, you know, and I remember from when you were playing these, these, these games, you know, you go into a tournament and the biggest thing is you have this. You have a plan for how you're going to use your pitchers. Everybody's, you know, okay, maybe I'm going to bring my ace out early and then I'm going to bring him back later. I'm going to do this or that. Whatever you're going to do. Everybody thinks about how you're going to use your pitchers, but a lot of times you don't think about platooning any other positions. You think about, you know, well, everybody else is going to be pretty static. I'm just worried about the pitching. And so let's say you go play at one of these places like when we were in Myrtle beach and we're at the, the Ripken complex, and it's 100 million degrees outside and your feet are burning through your Cleats. And how. How good would it be to move guys around in other places as well?

I'm going to answer that.

Okay.

Okay. So this is what coaches should do, and this is what I've done. So I used to have. I create a diamond, okay. And I put all the positions and I. And I break down who can play certain positions, right? Okay. So that's your roster and your depth, okay? So let's say the first from 9 to 12 years old, then going back to what George was saying, you play everybody in pool play, you know, get everybody a chance to play and everything. And then when you get the bracket play, hey, my top 10 would. Would play. And I saying 10 for listeners, nine position. And then that 10th player would be a eh or a dh. Okay? Then the other two, one or two on the bench would either come in to be a position or a pitcher, per se. As you move up the 13 and 14, sometimes you can't do that because now you might have 13 to 14 players. Because at that level, you want to have the. According to your age, 13 or 14, you want to have that many players again, going back to what George said due to injury and things like that. So now guess what you do. This is what I used to do. I used to have a pick a starter and a reliever, and I plan out for three games. You got two pool play and a bracket, okay? So now guess what? If I have 13 players, I'm batting or 12 or 13, I'm batting 10 with an EH. My other players on the bench is gonna, you know, they're gonna run for the pitcher or catcher. But also the next game, I might have a guy that's gonna. That pitcher, even though he can rake, he's gonna pitch the next game. I'll have my catcher comes in the next game. Those are guys that's on the bench, okay. And that kind of create a little bit more playing opportunity. Give kids a rest. Because of course, you're on turf fields. You got to think about your own turf fields. Guess what? That heat is going to break a catcher down. So you got to keep him fresh. Yeah, you got to keep him fresh. So you got to think. You got to be cognizant when it's hot out there.

Yet I would. It's not really platoon, but it's having to catch one guy's going to maybe catch three innings and the next guy winning, go in and catch three innings. So making sure, because you have that maybe three or four games, we were relying on those guys. But I Would have then always have a catcher, a guy who can catch but play other positions, Right?

Yeah.

But also too, is that certain, certain pitchers only want to pitch to certain catchers.

Oh, yeah. Now the other thing I wanted to throw out there when George was mentioned batting 12 or roster batting, especially in pool play, is that gives you an opportunity to see who's hot.

Yes.

For that tournament and you can take advantage of that. And that's, that's a direct result kind of feedback correlation there. And the parent says, well, how come this guy gets in? Is it. Well, he went 3 for 3 or 3 for 4 and he's hot right now. We're going to play him in pool play. You know, your kid's struggling, you know, so we're going to let him, you know, take a back seat, focus on it and kind of fix it up. That's part of competition, gives you a chance to see everybody.

But I've seen a kid would go up there and strike out three times in a row and I'm not going to torture the kid to go up there the fourth time, strike out. And then it's hurting the team.

Well, they did, they don't either. Like, right. We were, we were at the game Saturday night. Gavin Lux had three shots and then they pulled him and put somebody else in. Now part of that had to do with the handedness of the pitcher.

Right.

And who was in there. But at the same time, you know, if, if you got a guy, he looks like he's going over four zero for five and you're, it's tight, you know, and he's had three bummer at bats. Tito pulling. Put somebody else in because, you know.

It'S an automatic out.

Yeah, absolutely. Another kind of side tangent thing that, that I just want to, a point I want to make is that as a coach, if you work hard to develop your catchers and your strong up the middle guys, your shortstops, your center fielders, then in a way, let's say, let's say you're, you're hurting for, for coaching staff. You don't have any, you don't have any assistance or maybe you got one and you really need like about three in order to pull this team off the way you want. If you work hard to train those players, you can have those players running drills, right?

Yeah.

You know, and it kind of, it kind of helps you. It's kind of like the poor man's assistant coaching staff. But at the same time, those kids are going to thrive on the opportunity to be leaders if they're really meant to play those positions. They will.

And they put them in a position to be a leader.

Yeah. And so if they're naturally that kind of person, then they're going to rise to the occasion and they, oh, wow, he's got a lot of faith in me. I'm going to go out here and do this, do a good job. So. And you're, and you're also, at that point, you're building, you're building cohesiveness between your players because now your players are learning to trust their leader. Players.

Yeah.

You know, you don't get into a game and the coach and the catchers out there trying to give signals or tell people something and they're all going, oh God, just get back there and catch the ball. You don't, you know, I've seen that too. So, you know, when you, you've got the opportunity to build into those players, man, take that opportunity because it sure could help you down the line.

But Ethan had said earlier, you know, be creative out there, but understanding that you got help now utilize that help. A lot of times I'm coaching by myself because. Good example. So I was in a, in a league and I had different levels and I would have coaches to coach that certain team. So I gave him the lineup, what I wanted, who want the plays I wanted to play. And I looked at it, I said, why'd you change the lineup? Well, you know, I, I just thought. And I want to really, I want to, I want to be my, be me. You know, I wanted to be part of. Okay, that's. Well, thanks for, thanks for your service, but we don't need you anymore. I was like, I want, this is why I'm part of it. I want what I say being carried through.

Absolutely. Well. And you look at. There's a lot of, there's a case for a lot of guys who are assistant coaches in well known teams, maybe even in. On major league teams, who they were players, they had careers, they had plenty of talent. But maybe they're not players you've ever heard of. Maybe they, maybe their careers were short or maybe they were just good team players that never really had monster stats or got a lot of spotlight. But, but they know the game and they know it really well and they coach those bases, they coach first base, they coach third base, they coach the pitchers, they coach the outfielders, they coach whatever. And you know those guys. Just because you have a. There are more than, there's more ways to get a kid in the game than putting him in A position is what I'm saying, like you may be able to. To utilize their talents in lots of different ways.

I mean, that's the fun part about it being finding creative way to put the kid into the game. And back to a guy had struck out three or four times. Now the bases are loaded. It's very crucial. So it's going to pinch it. Pinch it for the guy. There are two instances that really stand out. Going back to high school, I was coaching, so I said, get a. It was two and no count. I told the guy, get a good pitch to bunt. And the ball was over his head and he bunted it as all time time. He thought I was calling him over, give him, giving him some more advice, said, no, you're out somebody else. And then the other one I met, well, I love coaching third base because I feel I can give good guidance, let him know how many outs in the situation. So I said, okay, you're tagging up on a fly ball. I said at least three or four times. Tagging up on a fly ball. So a fly ball's hit, what does he do? He goes part way, then he gets back. He couldn't tag up as a time. So and so come on in right. Then let him know you talking about teaching a lesson right away.

Well, and when we. You can't do this in every game, obviously. But when we were, we were playing football, I used to let the kids coach first, the kids coach third. I used to let them make roster decisions. I used to, you know, guys with, with, with guidance that. But at the same time, you know, why not. Yeah, why not have a thinking strategy and whatever. And then the other thing is when you take a kid and have him coach in third or coaching first, all of a sudden he realizes it ain't so easy. And so then he tends to want to listen a little better because he knows that you're making decisions that it's not so easy to do.

Yeah, I remember one game. I think I remember you let us make a lineup and you want some direct feedback. Well, I should bet here. No, you suck. No, you got a bet here.

Kids are. Kids are brutal.

You know what? But that's good though, man. That's. And I going back to, to what Greg was saying about giving kids autonomy. Autonomy, man, you.

We, we need to do that whenever you can.

Yes. Because like in indoor training, you'll be amazed. And I think Ethan probably experienced this in high school. Kids that can do front toss, man, they throw.

Yes, exactly.

Or can throw live B.P.

Yeah.

Talk about.

Those are things that kids, if you. We got to give them a chance to do these things on their own instead of controlling everything. And it's. It's just like, that's why we probably don't see a lot of kids outside on their own throwing. Throwing baseballs because they don't know how to practice together. Because we controlled a. Parents controlled everything, man. And we got to get away. Get baseball. Back to the simple things, man. That. And that'll. That'll give kids a little bit more a reason to go out in confidence and stuff, man, and be who they are.

Yeah.

You talk about that. Instant feedback. I remember being a. Being an incoming freshman. I don't think I'd ever thrown front toss, and I had to throw it to an upperclassman. Got my butt chewed out because I couldn't get.

Yes.

They were like, get somebody else. It's terrible. I was like, I've never done it before.

Yeah.

And so that's where coaches need to. In summer and travel. They need to give those kids the time to do that and give them chance to throw BP to. To each other, man. That's the only way you're going to.

The other part of this is. I'm. I'm. Okay. I'm going to. I'm going to step on the soapbox.

Yeah, go ahead.

Because when you play pickup games in the neighborhood, you don't necessarily move into a neighborhood where everybody is the same age as you. Okay. You play with whoever's in the neighborhood.

Yeah.

So some of those kids are older, some of those kids are younger. Some of those kids are in between sometimes. He played last week, but he isn't here because he's at his grandma's house or he went to summer camp. So we got to let this guy play. So we got it. Whatever, man. To have your kids playing on their own, man, is the. The best, in my opinion.

The best.

Thank you.

Because.

Thank you.

You got to figure this stuff out. And like Ethan said, you will get instant feedback right now. Yes.

Because you get honest feedback from your peers. Like, man, you go, we ain't gonna pick you next time.

So then let me.

Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. So how does. How does the money affect playing time? You figure? And three kinds of money. Three kinds of money come to mind. To me, it's the. The fee that the parent is paying.

Yes, sir.

And they're wanting that return. It's the travel cost that everybody is laying out and food and everything else unknown. And then it's whether or not the coach is being paid to coach. So what are the. What are the ramifications there? How does the money affect what's going on?

A whole lot.

Yeah.

But especially with. If the coach is getting compensated. But for me, with the. I try to keep the fee down, the team fee down as much as possible because I know they paying 1500, $2000. I said, for what? You know, and so now getting involved with RBI, so we actually, we are paying like $350 each parent. So we're doing the uniforms, we're doing shirts, maybe hats, but we kept it to a limit. We didn't go out there. Well, we're gonna. Four or five hats. Four or five different. We don't need all that. Just needed two. We had two different jerseys. So we're knowing what the jersey would be. But when it comes to. I think with, with the coach, you don't have as much control when that coach is getting paid.

Yeah, right. No, no.

And the travel, it's. Don't get caught up in that because making sure that your kid's gonna play because you're going to pay a lot of money, not the hotels or whatever other travel expenses. So it's not a set, set amount. And just want to also make sure that kid really wants to play. He wants to go to another level because we talked about it before. How much investments are you willing to put into getting the kid to, to develop exposure?

Sometimes I think, yeah, because a parent doesn't have that honest conversation up front and says, okay, before we lay all this out, let's talk about degrees of 1% and let's say maybe, you know, maybe it's time to play for, for fun or, you know, play a different. Play a different league and, and concentrate our time on some other skill that you're really, really good at in your life.

Right.

I'm gonna say something.

Sure.

We're, we're, we're saying this is in support of the coaches. Certain coaches are probably telling and being realistic with parents and the kid. Oh, yeah, guess what? Those are the guys that's like, oh man, I'm gonna start my own team. Because I didn't want to hear what he didn't told me. So now we recreating something else. You know, we're creating. Recreating us another team. Because, you know, this coach didn't want to hear the truth about where their kid is at. You know, and so the parent didn't want to hear. The parent. Yes, the parent didn't want to hear Hear that?

Ethan is more than my podcast partner. He's my son. And like every baseball parent, my first priority was his development as a player. Every year, we'd start out with a new coach and a new team, making new promises, only to end up playing the same old tournaments with little to no practice in between. You know what I'm talking about. That's why I'm so thankful that we found MDNI Academy. I first met Coach Rick over a decade ago when Ethan was just a kid, and I'll never forget the relief I felt watching his first lesson. I knew right then that no matter what team he played for, my son would have amazing, consistent instruction from someone who cared. Rick has trained baseball and softball players at the select, travel, and even college levels. So I knew that Ethan could continue his excellence through training approach. For his whole baseball career, he learned hitting, pitching, catching, fielding, and more all in one place. Most of all, he learned to love the greatest game in the world and how to play it with character and integrity. So if you're wearing yourself out running all over town to multiple teachers or worse, you're counting on that new select coach to actually develop your child. You need to check out MDNI Academy today. Go to mdaiacademy.com and contact Coach Rick to learn how you can get all the baseball instruction you need from someone who cares about your favorite player as much as you do at MDNI Academy. But I want to kind of narrow this down to a. Kind of a final list of strategies for coaches. How to get all the kids in the game. So here's what I've heard so far. Okay, I've heard work your pinch runners and your pinch hitters. Get people in even if they didn't have an at bat or even if they're not playing a position. Can you get them in? Can you roster? Bat. Bat them anyway? Even if they're not playing a position in that particular game, it at least gets them in the game. Can you. This is one we didn't talk about, but one I wanted to bring up. Can you have other jobs for them to do besides sit on the bench and watch their. Their friends play? Can they have organizational jobs to do? Can they keep stats? Can they, you know, do. Can they be in the game? Make sure they're in the game mentally. Don't just have them sitting over there doing nothing, you know, waiting for their shot. Chart pitches, if you can at least. Yeah, have them. Have them look for signs. Have them, you know, look for. Look for habits, look for tells. Look for you Know, whatever. Engage them strategically in what's going on and instruct them accordingly. While they're not playing a position, can they still be part of the game? That's a great way to do that. We've also talked about practice. Make sure you have lots and lots of practice. You can see what everybody's doing. As much practice you can get. I know from, even from coaching some of these teams, you know, it's hard because you say, well, we're going to practice two times a week. And the parents like, well, we might be there, we might not be there.

Oh, yeah.

And then next thing you know, you've got five kids who show up every time you, Every time you put something on the calendar and you never know if you're going to have enough for a practice. And you, you can't just boot everybody who didn't come to practice because then you don't have a team and it puts a coach in a, in a hard spot.

So when I usually practice, not practice the whole, maybe say that Friday we're going to have a tournament starting Saturday, practice the team then. But up to then, during the week, I'm going to practice maybe two or three guys at a time, right. And then I'll bring them all together.

And that's what I was going to. Yeah, that's. That's an excellent point, George. So if you can't, you know, if it's hard for your parents because, you know, there's lots of demands on time, you got, well, I can't come because his sister does this, his brother does that, and we can only be so many places at once and all this. Okay, then we're going to do catchers and pitchers on this one day, we're going to do outfielders on this day, we're going to do infielders. On this day, we're going to do batting, you know, whatever. Just, you know, break it up so not the whole team has to be at every practice. And at that point in time, maybe you can get that practice time in. The other thing we talked about is using them in games that, that maybe aren't as critical to. In a tournament. Use them in the pool play games. Make sure you've given. Because they may show you something in a pool play game that makes you go, you know what? You just earned a spot.

Right.

When we play in bracket play, because you're just tearing it up this weekend and I, you know, I'll take that.

Upgrade it.

Yeah, pickup games. Play pickup games as much as you can. Call, just call Another team directly and say, hey, you guys got time next week? What about Tuesday? What about Thursday? Can we play a game? I'll get us a field again. That's the other thing is it's hard to get a field a lot of times it's hard to have a place.

To play then a time.

So, you know, if, if you, if you can, you know, do the best, do the best you can to get those pickup games in. The other thing is if you're going to practice, see if you can practice along with another team, you know, why could you not schedule your practices together at the same time, be on the same field, do a scrimmage, you know, maybe you work with the both outfields at one over here and you know, whatever, and you're combining with the other team. You've got more coaches on the, on premises and you're, you're working with more kids at once. And then you can also do some gameplay because you've got enough kids to field two sides. It, you know, not something you would do in every practice. But, you know, if you can't get the pickup games in and fields are hard to get anyway, you could call somebody and say, hey, I got a field. We're going to have a practice. Y' all want to join us? Because then we'd have more kids and we could actually do some play. You might find that there's a lot of coaches who want to take you up on that.

Yeah.

So these are some ideas. What, what kind of things have I missed? What other strategies do we have?

One we didn't really talk about, but it's, for me, it's, it's the core of it. Situational play, a situational hitting. So in practice itself, so like the first five, first round or so, you get seven swings. So, so now you're going to have the kid hit the, hit the ball a couple of months, hit the ball to the right side and give situation and feel in and feel out so that now when, when it happens in a game, they are already prepared for it and then actually have kids on base so that now they can really feel a game situation. In the situation of plays, where to throw the ball, you call out, man on first one out, a ground ball. Didn't hit a ground ball. See what, what they're going to do, it's going to hold it and read it, or are they going to go for the double play? And so then in the outfield is, well, when you're on base and also in the outfield, knowing when to Tag up. So a second base and no outs, a fly ball is hit, you know right away what to do and not hesitating. And outfield, they know where to throw the ball. So it makes a big difference. And being able to anticipate situations, and so a lot of those things come into play that makes a difference in the. In the result.

Also have coaches that can throw good bp.

Oh, that's important.

And that can be hard to find warm welders. I've always had good, good. Had good coaches. And that's one of the things when I develop a coaching staff, find guys that are a little bit athletic, at least they can catch field, throw and stuff and find out what their strengths and what their weaknesses are, and I can fill in that. Another thing is I give my coaching staff the autonomy to be who they are. I'm going to be me, but because maybe I can be the good. The bad guy, they could be the good guy. So basically, I know the way that I coach and maybe another coach might come across a little different, you know, and can make that kid kind of buy in, so to speak. So again, this is where ego comes in. So I've never had an ego, and that's probably why I have good coaches, man. Allow. Allow them to be who they are doing BP inside or outside. I know that I throw hard and I throw different pitches to kids, and I have other coaches that throw probably a lot different, but that's a good way where kids can make adjustments to the different coaches as they go through. Okay. And that's how you become a. A good hitter. Learning how to bunt, drag, bunt, push, bun, all those different things. So just learn as much as you can. Yes. And just developing. I think it starts with a good coaching staff, man. A good coaching staff makes you look good.

Sure. And I had another couple of thoughts. Some other things that we mentioned that I wanted to bring back out. When you're in an inconsequential game, if you're playing fall ball, you're playing, you're doing practice, you're doing scrimmage, you're doing whatever, let your kids coach first and third, Let your kids make the lineup. Let your kids decide what happens here and there or whatever, you know, train those people. My thing was always, you know, if I got hit by a bus, can these guys still go out and play? You know, I want to make sure they can go out and play. They're not so, you know, dependent on me and that they're developing. Make them work through those situations in their head because learning they'll become better players. The other thing is, you know, if I. George, you mentioned playing up a lot now.

Me too.

I just thought about this like if I got a team of 13 year olds and I got a practice scheduled and I got a field, all right, I'm sitting on top of the world because I got a practice and I got a field, right? I'm calling like a 14 year old team and saying, hey, I got a practice and I got a field. You want to come join us? You know, I'm using that to maybe can I not only bring in another team, could I bring in another team so that we're playing up right and, and you know, really give them that shot and tell the kids, look, we're going to practice against a team that's older than you.

Yeah, I wouldn't, I don't never tell.

Them or tell them afterwards.

Yeah, yes, yes.

You know what, you guys did pretty well today.

And they, they get psyched out when you. Thank you.

Don't tell them. Yeah, don't tell them. No, don't tell them. Thank you.

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But as far as the coaches making sure that winning is a byproduct.

Yeah, yeah, well. And that would be my encouragement to organizations, too. If you're out there and you're running an organization, you know, you got multiple teams underneath you, and you're running an organization and you're trying to figure out, man, my challenge is find a way to major in development and let winning be the byproduct. Major in development. That's the thing.

In the long run, it'll work out.

Yeah, you're right. And the kids that have the ability will shine. They will.

Yeah.

They will show themselves, and they will shine, and they will. There is so much opportunity to play out there. If a kid has a ton of talent. There are community colleges or junior colleges. There are big colleges there. You know, there's lots of places that if your kid is one of those 3% to 1% kids, you know, just because they sat out a game is not going to determine their career. It'll be all right.

Well, it's checked out their attitude. So that cuts. When you get higher, it's not a guarantee. Get the higher level. Not a guarantee you're going to play on a regular basis. And I found that out going from, say, in the minor leagues, playing every day. Then you get to the major league, it's a different thing. You're going to be playing part time.

Well, you know, that was a fun thing. Is that again the day we met Jose and we were talking to him, the idea that, you know, they were fielding three catchers at the time and trying to figure out, you know, before. That was before Austin got traded, I think. And to hear him talk about the other catchers, they were like, they were his buddies. They were his. He wanted to see them succeed. There was no, no animosity, competition. I got to get out there in front. He wants to see Stevenson succeed. He wanted to see the. The rest of. I mean, it was. This was his thing. And I've heard you talk over and over again about so and so, yeah, he's my friend or he's my friend. You know, I've known him for years. Or we still talk from now and again. And you would think that because they played for another team or because you. You were maybe competing either in a big game or on the same team for playing time or whatever, that there would be this, you know, terrible competition. And there really isn't at that. At that level because by that point in time, you're all professionals. Yeah, everybody's trying to do as best they can, but at the same time, if you're not on the field, then you're still. Still wanting your team to succeed.

Yeah, everybody be sound, everybody doing the best they possibly can.

That's a great lesson to teach our kids because it brings them to maturity. And this is where I'm going to end today. And that is playing time aside, the most important thing we can do with young players is turn them into mature human beings. And mature human beings are people who are not petty, who are not spiteful, who are not selfish. They are people who genuinely play as great team players and want their teams to succeed. If you go back to the first part of season one and you listen to the episode we did on how to be a great team player, there's some good information in there on this. But the idea is when your child becomes a mature individual, as they do that, they will begin to think less about what's in it for them and more about what's in it for the team. And they will support their friends, they will have a better experience because of it, and they will become better human beings and it will serve them better in life. Because if they don't go on to be professional baseball players, which we know, 99 point bunch of things kids will not, they become good employees, they become good team members. They become good business owners. They become good leaders. They become good neighbors, good husbands. Good husbands, fathers and friends.

Good at what they do.

And that is important. And those are the things that, you know, George, you've said over and over, over again. Teaching life through using baseball, teaching how to become a great human being using baseball. I've seen Rick do it over and over and over again. Teaching those lessons of growing to maturity and becoming a good person, using the principles of baseball. That's what this is all supposed to be about. And winning, winning a cheap little ring at the end of a weekend pales in comparison to creating good human beings. And our hope would be that every coach wants to and has the, the support to do so.

Be their mindset. That's their goal.

And these kids would have a great experience because of it. So thanks for joining us today. Thanks for being a part of our conversation about how to get everybody to play and still be competitive. We hope that you'll come back next week and join us. In the meantime, you can listen to all of the first half of Season one, any place that you find podcasts, be that Apple or Spotify or wherever. And you can also find us@completegamepodcast.com or on Facebook or on Instagram or on YouTube. So we hope that you would continue to be a part of what we're doing. And we'll see you next week on the Complete Complete Game Podcast.

And we're gonna die.

We hope you've enjoyed the Complete Game Podcast, the show that's all about baseball. New episodes drop each week, so be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a thing. If you'd like to support the podcast, consider leaving us a five star rating or better yet, drop us a comment or a question. Let us know what you think. The Complete Game Podcast is produced and distributed by 2Creative Digital Marketing. Check us out at 2CreativeDigital.com on behalf of Ethan, Coach Rick and the Silver Slugger George Foster, I'm Greg Dungan saying have a great week and we'll see you real soon.