1 00:00:03,934 --> 00:00:07,644 Hi, welcome back to another student pilot cast, and specifically a 2 00:00:07,644 --> 00:00:09,174 beyond the check ride segment. 3 00:00:09,594 --> 00:00:11,484 So, as usual, I'm here with Kent. 4 00:00:11,484 --> 00:00:12,174 How you doing, Kent? 5 00:00:13,661 --> 00:00:14,411 Excellent. 6 00:00:14,831 --> 00:00:15,346 How are you doing? 7 00:00:16,164 --> 00:00:17,124 I'm doing great. 8 00:00:17,694 --> 00:00:20,124 Aren't you gonna say something about being able to talk about 9 00:00:20,124 --> 00:00:21,504 flying or something like that? 10 00:00:23,321 --> 00:00:25,121 Oh, I can't even remember what the line was. 11 00:00:25,121 --> 00:00:26,831 It's been so long since we recorded. 12 00:00:29,274 --> 00:00:30,624 So, excellent. 13 00:00:30,624 --> 00:00:35,184 Glad to have you with us, and so we're gonna be talking today about. 14 00:00:35,684 --> 00:00:40,964 What we do beyond our check ride to continue to expand our capabilities or 15 00:00:40,964 --> 00:00:43,484 expand our personal personal minimums. 16 00:00:43,874 --> 00:00:46,334 So a pretty good topic. 17 00:00:46,334 --> 00:00:47,894 We can go a lot of places with it. 18 00:00:48,314 --> 00:00:49,694 How do you wanna start the discussion? 19 00:00:51,796 --> 00:00:54,941 Well, I think a lot of people, You know, they've just gone through 20 00:00:54,941 --> 00:00:56,471 all their private pilot training. 21 00:00:57,131 --> 00:01:02,231 they've had all kinds of documentation that tells them exactly what they need to 22 00:01:02,231 --> 00:01:04,961 do in that airplane to reach their goal. 23 00:01:05,861 --> 00:01:10,631 and sadly, when I, before I was even a pilot, I was a lineman and I would see all 24 00:01:10,631 --> 00:01:13,841 these people come and they would train, train, train, train, train and get their 25 00:01:13,841 --> 00:01:16,001 private and you would never see 'em again. 26 00:01:17,681 --> 00:01:19,001 and that's kind of sad 'cause. 27 00:01:19,481 --> 00:01:24,131 I know that for both of us, aviation has done wonderful things in our lives and 28 00:01:24,561 --> 00:01:29,001 so it's something that you definitely should try to continue with if you can. 29 00:01:29,631 --> 00:01:34,791 there are so many opportunities in aviation to do more things. 30 00:01:35,241 --> 00:01:41,971 you know, there's really nobody that has done everything and so, I think. 31 00:01:42,361 --> 00:01:46,891 Maybe the first step should be to get out there and find out what to do next. 32 00:01:47,621 --> 00:01:50,081 find out what your niche in aviation is gonna be. 33 00:01:50,541 --> 00:01:53,361 I think a lot of people think about becoming an airline pilot 34 00:01:53,361 --> 00:01:57,291 because that's what aviation is to an awful lot of people. 35 00:01:57,291 --> 00:02:01,756 They just simply don't know, the breadth of opportunities that there 36 00:02:01,756 --> 00:02:04,726 are in aviation for both fun and work. 37 00:02:05,356 --> 00:02:09,526 So there, there are a ton of, of other opportunities out there. 38 00:02:09,526 --> 00:02:13,576 And so, the next thing after your private is just kind of figuring 39 00:02:13,576 --> 00:02:15,406 out where you're gonna go next. 40 00:02:17,394 --> 00:02:21,954 The other thing about that is when someone's getting their private 41 00:02:21,954 --> 00:02:27,294 certificate, for example, all the time about aeronautical decision making, and 42 00:02:27,294 --> 00:02:34,614 part of ADM is defining writing down and knowing what your personal minimums are. 43 00:02:36,889 --> 00:02:43,159 That is something that is meant to be expanded as you gain more experience, 44 00:02:44,059 --> 00:02:49,579 do more things, get better at some of the skills that have to do with 45 00:02:49,579 --> 00:02:51,379 flying the airplane, things like that. 46 00:02:51,379 --> 00:02:55,189 And a lot of times what we don't talk about is how do we 47 00:02:55,189 --> 00:02:57,079 expand those personal minimums? 48 00:02:57,199 --> 00:03:01,549 How do we go beyond the check ride and start to do that? 49 00:03:01,549 --> 00:03:04,779 And so I think it'd be great if we covered that today as well. 50 00:03:07,071 --> 00:03:07,761 Excellent. 51 00:03:08,711 --> 00:03:12,701 yeah, it's all about expanding your flying skills safely. 52 00:03:13,754 --> 00:03:14,294 Yes. 53 00:03:14,321 --> 00:03:14,381 I. 54 00:03:14,714 --> 00:03:15,344 it safely. 55 00:03:16,274 --> 00:03:16,604 So 56 00:03:16,936 --> 00:03:17,986 yeah, you're right. 57 00:03:17,986 --> 00:03:24,196 When, when you, uh, like the day before your check ride, you have those 58 00:03:24,196 --> 00:03:28,066 personal minimums are kind of written out for you by your flight instructor 59 00:03:28,066 --> 00:03:32,956 as your solo minimums, and you're allowed to Do, you know, what, what 60 00:03:32,956 --> 00:03:34,576 solo minimums do you give people? 61 00:03:35,984 --> 00:03:40,764 generally some of the basic ones would be never flying in more than, you know, 62 00:03:40,764 --> 00:03:48,529 15 knots of wind and never flying in more than, say, an eight knot cross wind until 63 00:03:48,594 --> 00:03:51,954 you get better and better at it As far 64 00:03:52,001 --> 00:03:52,061 Yeah. 65 00:03:52,434 --> 00:03:55,234 goes, of course then there's minimums around. 66 00:03:55,714 --> 00:03:57,514 This is actually a funny one to talk about. 67 00:03:58,384 --> 00:04:01,594 there's minimums around visibility and things like that too because as we know 68 00:04:01,594 --> 00:04:07,874 in most of the air spaces we fly in, three miles of visibility is pretty 69 00:04:07,874 --> 00:04:15,144 much legal, with a few exceptions and three miles of visibility for somebody 70 00:04:15,144 --> 00:04:16,994 who's learned to fly in Arizona. 71 00:04:17,574 --> 00:04:24,684 might as well be hard IMC because we generally out here 72 00:04:24,684 --> 00:04:29,694 have unlimited visibility, 80, a hundred miles, even in the summer. 73 00:04:30,164 --> 00:04:35,204 the only times it gets a little bit lower is from smog or maybe dust blowing 74 00:04:35,204 --> 00:04:37,004 around in the, in the atmosphere. 75 00:04:37,304 --> 00:04:39,944 But it's amazing when it does get lower here. 76 00:04:40,344 --> 00:04:45,674 gets down to 10, or heaven forbid, you know, seven, six miles of visibility. 77 00:04:46,890 --> 00:04:48,660 You notice it, right? 78 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:55,570 And so I wouldn't, uh, ever want one of my students to fly in anything less than, say 79 00:04:55,570 --> 00:05:01,090 six or seven miles of visibility because they've really had no experience doing it. 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:05,650 And finding an airport and of understanding where you're at when you 81 00:05:05,650 --> 00:05:08,980 can only see straight down, at least compared to the way we normally can 82 00:05:08,980 --> 00:05:13,300 see out here, with all of the terrain we have around us and all of those 83 00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:15,570 sorts of things it can be a big deal. 84 00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:21,500 Now you talk to somebody who flies in the Midwest like you do a lot, Kent, seven, 85 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:23,210 eight miles of visibility in the summer. 86 00:05:23,210 --> 00:05:26,210 That's just, you know, a Tuesday, know, so, 87 00:05:26,810 --> 00:05:27,530 um, 88 00:05:27,658 --> 00:05:31,483 It's usually 10, but it's usually not that much more, you know, the, 89 00:05:31,735 --> 00:05:32,085 right, 90 00:05:32,353 --> 00:05:35,173 automated weather observing systems and the ATIS are never 91 00:05:35,173 --> 00:05:36,763 going to tell you more than 10. 92 00:05:37,153 --> 00:05:38,563 I, I guess I shouldn't say never. 93 00:05:38,563 --> 00:05:42,293 I have heard, of higher numbers than that, but that's pretty rare. 94 00:05:42,753 --> 00:05:42,969 point 95 00:05:43,007 --> 00:05:48,107 and you know, I, I remember that first flight where it 96 00:05:48,107 --> 00:05:51,347 was only four or five miles of visibility after I got my private. 97 00:05:51,927 --> 00:05:55,467 and these days, like if it was four miles visibility, I'm 98 00:05:55,467 --> 00:05:57,807 going, IFR, you know, there's, 99 00:05:58,099 --> 00:05:58,279 yeah. 100 00:05:58,279 --> 00:05:58,624 Yeah, yeah, 101 00:05:58,707 --> 00:06:00,537 it's really not very much. 102 00:06:01,399 --> 00:06:01,729 yeah. 103 00:06:02,209 --> 00:06:02,389 Yeah, 104 00:06:02,397 --> 00:06:02,487 Yeah. 105 00:06:02,487 --> 00:06:02,517 I. 106 00:06:02,809 --> 00:06:05,799 that distance, especially, if you're talking about traffic 107 00:06:05,949 --> 00:06:10,359 opposite direction, that closing distance is gonna happen real fast. 108 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:11,439 So, 109 00:06:11,652 --> 00:06:12,042 Yeah. 110 00:06:12,189 --> 00:06:13,149 that, type of thing. 111 00:06:13,329 --> 00:06:16,729 It's kind of funny because of where we fly, is a little bit different. 112 00:06:16,729 --> 00:06:21,079 Of course, you've flown in all sorts of places all over the US but but 113 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:22,909 where we live is sort of different. 114 00:06:22,909 --> 00:06:26,479 And so those, those are going to affect your personal minimums, of course. 115 00:06:27,787 --> 00:06:28,567 Absolutely. 116 00:06:28,717 --> 00:06:33,127 And you know, here in Wisconsin it is different depending on the time of year. 117 00:06:33,577 --> 00:06:36,967 in the summer when it's really humid, you're not gonna get a whole lot 118 00:06:36,967 --> 00:06:39,367 more than 10 miles, in the winter. 119 00:06:40,027 --> 00:06:43,147 I can take off and see a hundred, 150 miles, 120 00:06:43,804 --> 00:06:44,344 Exactly. 121 00:06:44,497 --> 00:06:44,887 right? 122 00:06:45,007 --> 00:06:45,307 Right. 123 00:06:45,307 --> 00:06:48,817 It gets really dry in the winter and so that that dry air gives 124 00:06:48,817 --> 00:06:50,227 you really good visibility. 125 00:06:51,499 --> 00:06:51,829 Yeah. 126 00:06:52,899 --> 00:06:56,579 speaking of which, I was on a, um, tell, I'm going on a story tangent. 127 00:06:56,939 --> 00:07:00,599 I was on a training flight with one of my students a couple of months ago. 128 00:07:01,079 --> 00:07:06,519 And, speaking of increasing your personal mini minimums or expanding that envelope. 129 00:07:07,299 --> 00:07:11,499 went out specifically because it was a very windy day and, um, we 130 00:07:11,499 --> 00:07:15,639 were gonna work on, her ground reference maneuvers because, it 131 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:16,929 was gonna be pretty challenging. 132 00:07:16,929 --> 00:07:19,659 And so we both thought, Hey, this is a good opportunity. 133 00:07:20,089 --> 00:07:23,689 To do something that's gonna be very challenging so that when you do it 134 00:07:23,689 --> 00:07:29,229 on your check ride or you know, um, in, in less undesirable conditions, 135 00:07:29,229 --> 00:07:31,209 it's gonna feel real easy, you know? 136 00:07:32,109 --> 00:07:35,979 so we went out and did that, turned around to head back towards the airport, 137 00:07:35,979 --> 00:07:40,599 and we realized that the whole east part of the valley had been kind of 138 00:07:40,599 --> 00:07:43,179 engulfed in dust because of all the. 139 00:07:43,644 --> 00:07:44,604 'cause of all the wind. 140 00:07:44,814 --> 00:07:49,774 And so again, our visibility probably, you know, it wasn't even close to 141 00:07:49,774 --> 00:07:54,244 marginal VFR, it was probably about six, eight miles, something like that. 142 00:07:54,724 --> 00:07:58,744 But for us, you know, out here, and for this private student who 143 00:07:58,744 --> 00:08:02,374 had never flown in conditions like that, she just immediately went. 144 00:08:03,854 --> 00:08:05,714 I have no idea where the airport is. 145 00:08:06,914 --> 00:08:07,244 You know, 146 00:08:07,717 --> 00:08:08,007 Yeah. 147 00:08:08,624 --> 00:08:11,174 that I normally use, I can't see. 148 00:08:11,474 --> 00:08:17,884 And uh, so we kinda came back and, asked for a low approach so that we could 149 00:08:18,094 --> 00:08:19,684 get our bearings, because that's how. 150 00:08:20,179 --> 00:08:23,569 That's how different it is when you can normally see 80 miles or 151 00:08:23,569 --> 00:08:27,559 basically un unlimited now all of a sudden you can't see much. 152 00:08:27,559 --> 00:08:29,179 So we came in, did a low approach. 153 00:08:29,269 --> 00:08:32,689 Of course, nobody was flying anymore, so there wasn't a lot of traffic. 154 00:08:34,024 --> 00:08:35,434 And they were like, sure, go ahead. 155 00:08:35,434 --> 00:08:35,824 No problem. 156 00:08:35,824 --> 00:08:36,454 Whatever you need. 157 00:08:36,784 --> 00:08:39,844 So we did a low approach, stayed in the pattern, and then came back down to land. 158 00:08:39,844 --> 00:08:42,094 And that was a great experience for her. 159 00:08:42,764 --> 00:08:47,324 not only for the ground reference, but to get, to see in a safe way, you 160 00:08:47,324 --> 00:08:50,924 know, with an instructor on board, what it's like when your visibility 161 00:08:50,924 --> 00:08:53,144 starts to go to crap, you know? 162 00:08:54,354 --> 00:08:56,304 so that's kind of what we're talking about, right? 163 00:08:56,883 --> 00:08:57,173 Yeah. 164 00:08:58,592 --> 00:09:02,012 so, so it's really about, you know, pushing that envelope, 165 00:09:02,012 --> 00:09:03,422 but doing it in a safe way. 166 00:09:03,422 --> 00:09:08,432 So I know with all your experience, Kent, what does it mean to be able to 167 00:09:08,432 --> 00:09:10,412 push the envelope but do it safely? 168 00:09:12,164 --> 00:09:14,654 Well, the way I always like to say it is. 169 00:09:16,174 --> 00:09:19,474 To become a better pilot, you have to push your envelope and you 170 00:09:19,474 --> 00:09:24,664 have to expand your envelope, but only do it one corner at a time. 171 00:09:25,924 --> 00:09:29,584 so something like you are doing with your student there. 172 00:09:30,094 --> 00:09:34,354 You know, being in the local area and working with the same controllers you've 173 00:09:34,354 --> 00:09:39,424 got normally and flying the same airplane, you know, you still had a situation 174 00:09:39,424 --> 00:09:43,234 that if she hadn't been with you could have been potentially dangerous for her. 175 00:09:43,744 --> 00:09:49,954 Um, I. Now imagine if she had already had her private, was not up with an 176 00:09:49,954 --> 00:09:54,724 instructor, was maybe, you know, maybe had traveled somewhere and was flying 177 00:09:54,724 --> 00:09:59,347 an unfamiliar airplane and talking with different controllers and all of those 178 00:09:59,347 --> 00:10:05,657 things kind of contribute to, potentially overwhelming the pilot and, and getting 179 00:10:05,657 --> 00:10:08,747 'em into an even more unsafe situation. 180 00:10:09,257 --> 00:10:15,617 one example, uh, that I thought of is, you know, I went out to the west 181 00:10:15,617 --> 00:10:21,577 coast, this quite a while ago, but, I just had a situation where I had the 182 00:10:21,577 --> 00:10:26,257 luxury of both time and money at the same time, which is incredibly rare. 183 00:10:27,127 --> 00:10:31,957 And, uh, there was a family reunion happening out in Oregon and I had 184 00:10:31,957 --> 00:10:34,357 decided I was going to fly out to it. 185 00:10:35,047 --> 00:10:38,197 and it was just kind of a, an epic adventure. 186 00:10:38,917 --> 00:10:44,962 but I did it in an airplane that I. It was one of those few 187 00:10:44,962 --> 00:10:48,682 airplanes that I don't fly, I wear, 188 00:10:49,745 --> 00:10:50,135 Yeah. 189 00:10:50,302 --> 00:10:53,602 you know, an airplane that feels so natural to me that 190 00:10:53,632 --> 00:10:55,822 it's like it's part of my body. 191 00:10:56,282 --> 00:10:59,432 and I think really, I've only had two airplanes that I've 192 00:10:59,432 --> 00:11:00,752 gotten to that point with. 193 00:11:01,322 --> 00:11:06,062 I did take a mountain flying course on the way out there as well, so, uh, we'll 194 00:11:06,062 --> 00:11:07,832 definitely talk about that a little bit. 195 00:11:08,322 --> 00:11:13,492 but, you know, to, some extent I was trying to minimize those variables. 196 00:11:13,852 --> 00:11:17,812 Uh, it was also, I took the trip in a 182 and I was solo. 197 00:11:17,812 --> 00:11:19,822 So even though it was. 198 00:11:20,542 --> 00:11:25,012 Late summer and hot, you know, high density altitude in some places. 199 00:11:25,502 --> 00:11:30,152 I had performance to spare because I was still several hundred pounds under gross. 200 00:11:30,602 --> 00:11:38,462 I not long after that, somebody I know was going to take a similar trip from the 201 00:11:38,462 --> 00:11:45,062 Midwest to the West coast in a light sport aircraft they had never flown before. 202 00:11:45,482 --> 00:11:50,372 Uh, you know, one that allowed them enough useful load to maybe pack 203 00:11:50,372 --> 00:11:51,932 a toothbrush to take with them. 204 00:11:53,612 --> 00:11:54,662 You know, something that. 205 00:11:55,022 --> 00:11:57,422 Didn't carry a whole heck of a lot of fuel. 206 00:11:57,422 --> 00:12:00,752 You know, there's, there's a lot of, uh, lot of space between 207 00:12:00,752 --> 00:12:02,102 all the airports out there. 208 00:12:02,102 --> 00:12:06,792 And, I was just thinking, man, that's, that's too much. 209 00:12:06,892 --> 00:12:10,732 and I also thought that they might have been somewhat inspired 210 00:12:10,732 --> 00:12:16,102 by the trip I took and I called up and said, dude, don't do it. 211 00:12:16,822 --> 00:12:17,392 Um. 212 00:12:18,127 --> 00:12:23,507 I feel like you're, you're biting off too many new things at once, being in a new 213 00:12:23,507 --> 00:12:27,737 airplane with limited performance in a new environment, going through the mountains, 214 00:12:27,737 --> 00:12:29,207 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 215 00:12:29,717 --> 00:12:33,797 and luckily he said, yeah, I kind of figured that out myself already. 216 00:12:33,797 --> 00:12:36,617 So I've, I've already made the decision not to do it. 217 00:12:37,127 --> 00:12:37,757 kinda what you 218 00:12:37,849 --> 00:12:38,419 now. 219 00:12:38,837 --> 00:12:41,957 pushing one corner of the envelope at a time, right? 220 00:12:42,139 --> 00:12:42,679 Right, 221 00:12:42,857 --> 00:12:43,067 off 222 00:12:43,219 --> 00:12:43,609 right. 223 00:12:43,937 --> 00:12:48,197 that are gonna be different, or pushing your personal minimums rather 224 00:12:48,197 --> 00:12:49,727 than doing a whole bunch at once. 225 00:12:50,884 --> 00:12:51,274 Right. 226 00:12:52,187 --> 00:12:52,277 Okay. 227 00:12:52,684 --> 00:12:57,874 and you know, you can, uh, if you're bored with flying right now, 228 00:12:58,294 --> 00:12:59,704 pick something to get better at. 229 00:13:00,034 --> 00:13:04,714 sometimes we don't think of just going out and practicing something. 230 00:13:05,404 --> 00:13:09,244 I know a guy though that kind of kicked me in the butt a little bit. 231 00:13:09,844 --> 00:13:14,554 I was in the pattern at an airport where he was based and just kind 232 00:13:14,554 --> 00:13:15,934 of trying out a new airplane. 233 00:13:16,624 --> 00:13:21,434 And there he is on the Crosswind Runway in his Cessna 140. 234 00:13:21,504 --> 00:13:25,494 You know, doing, uh, doing crosswinds practice just to get better at 235 00:13:25,494 --> 00:13:27,264 it and to keep his skills up. 236 00:13:27,384 --> 00:13:30,354 I went, huh, I should probably do that more often. 237 00:13:31,117 --> 00:13:31,477 Yeah. 238 00:13:31,854 --> 00:13:33,289 but, you know, same sort of thing 239 00:13:34,207 --> 00:13:38,497 A lot of times we kind of stop training when we get our certificate and start 240 00:13:38,557 --> 00:13:42,907 going is, you know what we talked about in one of our previous episodes. 241 00:13:43,927 --> 00:13:47,287 wants to go somewhere and that's awesome and you learn a ton when you 242 00:13:47,287 --> 00:13:52,447 do that, but sometimes should just go up and practice some things, right, 243 00:13:52,537 --> 00:13:54,037 like you did when you were a student. 244 00:13:55,854 --> 00:13:56,634 Absolutely. 245 00:13:57,414 --> 00:14:01,944 you know, I'm the kind of person who, when it snows here, I go out for a drive. 246 00:14:02,484 --> 00:14:03,564 so I'm, I'm a little bit. 247 00:14:04,239 --> 00:14:08,379 Mixed up in the head already, I suppose, but, if there's good 248 00:14:08,379 --> 00:14:11,319 flyable IMC, I'm gonna go fly. 249 00:14:12,249 --> 00:14:16,689 Um, you know, there's no substitute for actual, in fact, when you were 250 00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:21,969 talking about Arizona flight conditions, there's an awful lot of people up in 251 00:14:21,969 --> 00:14:26,409 this part of the world who think it is absolutely crazy that it's possible to 252 00:14:26,409 --> 00:14:29,559 get an instrument rating without ever having seen the inside of a cloud. 253 00:14:30,502 --> 00:14:31,042 yes, 254 00:14:31,464 --> 00:14:37,344 Um, but you guys don't see clouds at all very much down there, so, 255 00:14:38,182 --> 00:14:43,522 Well, well, and when we do it's, you know, towering Cumulonimbus and you 256 00:14:43,522 --> 00:14:45,442 don't want to be anywhere near it anyway. 257 00:14:45,872 --> 00:14:48,992 but every once in a while we do get layers. 258 00:14:48,992 --> 00:14:53,312 A lot of times it is cumulus of some sort, but we, you know, it's 259 00:14:53,312 --> 00:14:54,842 mild enough that we can get it. 260 00:14:54,842 --> 00:14:55,712 And so, yes. 261 00:14:55,722 --> 00:14:59,982 We do the same thing be especially because it's so difficult to find 262 00:14:59,982 --> 00:15:05,112 flyable IMC, that when it happens, you see a lot of people heading up into it. 263 00:15:07,152 --> 00:15:07,992 So that's a good thing. 264 00:15:08,262 --> 00:15:08,892 That's a good thing. 265 00:15:09,424 --> 00:15:10,294 Absolutely. 266 00:15:10,594 --> 00:15:16,894 so when you see conditions that are closer to the edges of your envelope, that's 267 00:15:16,894 --> 00:15:19,264 the time to go fly and to go practice. 268 00:15:19,384 --> 00:15:22,924 And, you know, let's say you have decided that your personal minimum 269 00:15:22,924 --> 00:15:27,064 for crosswinds is, you know, no more than 10 knots across wind. 270 00:15:27,064 --> 00:15:29,344 And maybe there's 12 today. 271 00:15:30,664 --> 00:15:32,909 Well, when's the last time you flew in 10. 272 00:15:33,784 --> 00:15:37,864 was it last week, last month, or was it two years ago? 273 00:15:38,344 --> 00:15:42,214 And so that should tell you whether that's okay to, to push 274 00:15:42,214 --> 00:15:43,564 that corner of your envelope. 275 00:15:44,044 --> 00:15:48,194 you know, I think I'm to the point where, I've had a crosswind, direct 276 00:15:48,194 --> 00:15:50,264 crosswind gusting to 35 knots. 277 00:15:50,804 --> 00:15:51,374 Um. 278 00:15:52,169 --> 00:15:53,969 Would I go out and do that today? 279 00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:58,919 Yeah, maybe not because, you know, I'm, it's, it's been a little while 280 00:15:58,919 --> 00:16:00,749 since I got a really good crosswind. 281 00:16:01,209 --> 00:16:03,789 I know I've done it in the past, but I haven't done it recently. 282 00:16:03,789 --> 00:16:04,299 So, 283 00:16:04,492 --> 00:16:04,842 Right. 284 00:16:04,847 --> 00:16:04,927 Right. 285 00:16:05,349 --> 00:16:10,819 I. You definitely want to at least think about that, you know, you 286 00:16:10,819 --> 00:16:15,769 don't necessarily have to have done it last week, but be proficient, 287 00:16:15,869 --> 00:16:17,459 in something before you push it. 288 00:16:18,312 --> 00:16:21,582 So pushing just a little bit, especially when you're by yourself. 289 00:16:21,582 --> 00:16:25,172 But if you feel like it's, you know, maybe your proficiency isn't where it 290 00:16:25,172 --> 00:16:29,222 needs to be to expand your envelope to 12 or 15 knots of crosswind. 291 00:16:29,222 --> 00:16:31,472 Or maybe there's too many things going. 292 00:16:31,472 --> 00:16:34,989 Maybe the visibility is a little low and the crosswind, that's when 293 00:16:34,989 --> 00:16:37,329 you, you know, text your instructor. 294 00:16:37,754 --> 00:16:40,184 And say, Hey, you got some time to go up. 295 00:16:40,184 --> 00:16:43,634 This looks like pretty good practice conditions, and if the 296 00:16:43,634 --> 00:16:45,824 instructor's available, they're gonna want to go do it too. 297 00:16:47,436 --> 00:16:48,216 Absolutely. 298 00:16:49,964 --> 00:16:50,714 yeah, get somebody 299 00:16:50,786 --> 00:16:54,686 I am reminded of a time that there were some really horrendous winds and 300 00:16:54,686 --> 00:16:58,256 somebody had a lesson scheduled and they were sure they could handle it, and, 301 00:16:58,886 --> 00:17:02,386 uh, it's a good thing they were with their instructor because, yeah, it was, 302 00:17:02,386 --> 00:17:06,706 it was far enough beyond what they were actually proficient at that the instructor 303 00:17:06,706 --> 00:17:08,116 had to get 'em back on the ground. 304 00:17:08,326 --> 00:17:11,766 But, you know, those are are great opportunities as well. 305 00:17:12,634 --> 00:17:12,814 I. 306 00:17:12,814 --> 00:17:16,727 even with private students who aren't beyond the check ride yet, those 307 00:17:16,727 --> 00:17:19,097 types of opportunities are pure gold. 308 00:17:19,277 --> 00:17:25,877 And I just had this experience last week with a post solo, uh, student 309 00:17:25,877 --> 00:17:31,067 of mine we were going up to help her get familiar with the practice area. 310 00:17:31,097 --> 00:17:37,172 'cause next he's gonna be soloing to the practice area we had a dual lesson 311 00:17:37,172 --> 00:17:38,612 planned and it got really windy. 312 00:17:38,612 --> 00:17:43,652 It was, you know, direct crosswind, gusting about 20 But we weren't really 313 00:17:43,652 --> 00:17:45,242 spending a ton of time in the pattern. 314 00:17:45,749 --> 00:17:48,989 we were going to the practice area, and so it was fine. 315 00:17:48,989 --> 00:17:49,949 She did great. 316 00:17:50,379 --> 00:17:53,139 but when we were coming back in, she had never, she had never 317 00:17:53,139 --> 00:17:54,459 landed in conditions like that. 318 00:17:54,459 --> 00:17:56,259 And I told her, Hey, this is gonna be challenging. 319 00:17:56,259 --> 00:17:57,669 I'm gonna be on the controls with you. 320 00:17:57,669 --> 00:18:01,524 I, and I'm going to, you know, show you how. 321 00:18:01,784 --> 00:18:02,264 Easy. 322 00:18:02,264 --> 00:18:07,754 This is to put the thing on the thing if you know how to control the airplane, 323 00:18:07,754 --> 00:18:09,074 if you've got experience doing it. 324 00:18:09,104 --> 00:18:14,474 And, her response after we touched down was, wow. 325 00:18:14,624 --> 00:18:21,954 I had no, I idea that it would be like being kind of in a side slip. 326 00:18:21,954 --> 00:18:27,127 So, down one wheel way before the other, then the, the other wheel and then the 327 00:18:27,127 --> 00:18:30,127 nose wheel, and lots of cross control and. 328 00:18:31,082 --> 00:18:35,642 she was doing great on her landings when there's minimal wind, it was a 329 00:18:35,642 --> 00:18:41,912 testament to me that, I mean, these, these opportunities to expand your experience 330 00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:47,612 with somebody more experienced on board to help make it safe, man, that is just 331 00:18:47,612 --> 00:18:50,042 absolute learning gold right there. 332 00:18:50,943 --> 00:18:51,543 Definitely. 333 00:18:52,273 --> 00:18:56,023 and I've heard of, I've heard of people saying things like, oh, I couldn't land in 334 00:18:56,023 --> 00:18:58,753 a 15 knot cross 'cause I ran outta rudder. 335 00:18:59,563 --> 00:19:00,913 Uh, I call bs. 336 00:19:00,973 --> 00:19:05,893 Um, I didn't run outta rudder with a 35 knot crosswinds, so obviously some 337 00:19:05,893 --> 00:19:11,663 aircraft types are better than others, but, especially Cessna, you know, they, 338 00:19:11,663 --> 00:19:13,133 they build airplanes that you can, I. 339 00:19:13,973 --> 00:19:15,413 Beat the living hell out of. 340 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:16,290 Yeah. 341 00:19:17,243 --> 00:19:21,593 so I, I would guess that I could probably, you know, if, if I had the 342 00:19:21,593 --> 00:19:27,173 proficiency that if I was landing a 182 and a 45 not cross wind, I might 343 00:19:27,173 --> 00:19:28,913 start to hit the stops on the rudder. 344 00:19:28,913 --> 00:19:32,483 But, you know, the planes, the planes generally going to be 345 00:19:32,483 --> 00:19:34,583 better than you are as a pilot. 346 00:19:35,213 --> 00:19:35,483 Yep. 347 00:19:35,783 --> 00:19:38,603 It mostly comes down to your proficiency for sure. 348 00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:40,330 yeah. 349 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,770 So I alluded to it a little bit ago, but there are also times where you don't 350 00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:50,650 want to call your own flight instructor. 351 00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:54,100 You want to go and get somebody who's a specialist in something. 352 00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:55,540 and 353 00:19:55,868 --> 00:19:56,828 totally agree. 354 00:19:57,010 --> 00:20:04,360 that I mentioned was a mountain flying course that honestly, to this day. 355 00:20:04,825 --> 00:20:09,625 That was some of the best learning flying and some of the most 356 00:20:09,625 --> 00:20:10,825 fun I've had in an airplane. 357 00:20:11,755 --> 00:20:14,425 I, uh, I do have to give props here. 358 00:20:14,425 --> 00:20:20,095 It was, uh, Lori McCall's team up at Mountain Canyon flying in McCall, Idaho. 359 00:20:20,695 --> 00:20:24,895 a lot of people are aware of the, uh, Colorado Pilots Association 360 00:20:24,895 --> 00:20:28,825 courses as well, which, um, I think those happen like three times a year. 361 00:20:29,195 --> 00:20:30,725 and it's a, it's a big deal. 362 00:20:30,725 --> 00:20:35,405 They have a whole lot of instructors and a whole lot of people learning, uh, whereas. 363 00:20:35,655 --> 00:20:39,405 Mountain Canyon flying is one that, you know, it's a, a company 364 00:20:39,405 --> 00:20:40,785 that does it all the time. 365 00:20:41,715 --> 00:20:44,505 but one of the things that I really appreciated about that course up 366 00:20:44,505 --> 00:20:50,745 in McCall is they have a, an area up there called the Frank Church 367 00:20:50,745 --> 00:20:53,565 River of No Return Wilderness Area. 368 00:20:53,985 --> 00:20:57,825 And there are a ton of these cool little Forest Service strips 369 00:20:57,825 --> 00:20:59,575 around there that are just. 370 00:21:00,075 --> 00:21:01,365 Really, really cool. 371 00:21:01,445 --> 00:21:03,485 check out Johnson Creek if you get a chance. 372 00:21:03,485 --> 00:21:10,495 I think it's 3U2, really great little place where you can camp and, the 373 00:21:11,185 --> 00:21:14,455 mountains around there are just beautiful and you really do have to 374 00:21:14,455 --> 00:21:16,915 fly right around them to get in there. 375 00:21:17,495 --> 00:21:20,855 but there's some really, really neat stuff that you can get to in the back 376 00:21:20,855 --> 00:21:25,685 country and, uh, so that that course up there, being able to actually fly 377 00:21:25,805 --> 00:21:29,580 into the mountains as well as just around them was just super cool. 378 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:30,700 Um. 379 00:21:31,715 --> 00:21:36,155 So that's one example of getting specialist instruction. 380 00:21:36,753 --> 00:21:37,293 definitely. 381 00:21:37,293 --> 00:21:38,853 specialty instruction right there. 382 00:21:38,853 --> 00:21:42,123 You want somebody who's, really adept at teaching that. 383 00:21:43,685 --> 00:21:44,525 Absolutely. 384 00:21:45,345 --> 00:21:47,445 aerobatics, of course, is another one, 385 00:21:47,948 --> 00:21:48,368 Mm-hmm. 386 00:21:48,795 --> 00:21:53,775 where these are things that are maybe more obvious than some others, but 387 00:21:54,165 --> 00:21:58,705 going and getting some specialty flight instruction, is just a, a great way to 388 00:21:58,705 --> 00:22:02,365 have some fun and to learn a whole lot about flying in a short period of time. 389 00:22:02,855 --> 00:22:05,195 and doing these things makes you a better pilot. 390 00:22:06,155 --> 00:22:07,385 Overall as well. 391 00:22:07,865 --> 00:22:11,675 you know, with a mountain flying course, you learn a lot about not only density 392 00:22:11,675 --> 00:22:17,255 altitude, but just how air currents fly around objects and that sort of thing. 393 00:22:17,675 --> 00:22:22,325 you know, I can probably better predict now when it's gonna be turbulent near 394 00:22:22,325 --> 00:22:25,955 downtown Chicago because I learned about what causes turbulence in the 395 00:22:25,955 --> 00:22:29,525 mountains, mountain skyscrapers, whatever. 396 00:22:29,525 --> 00:22:31,205 The air doesn't know the difference, so. 397 00:22:33,318 --> 00:22:33,648 Yeah. 398 00:22:33,678 --> 00:22:37,158 Kent, I don't even think I've had a chance to tell you this, but at the 399 00:22:37,158 --> 00:22:42,518 beginning of this year, I actually took an aerobatics, lesson, which was pretty 400 00:22:42,745 --> 00:22:43,135 cool. 401 00:22:43,268 --> 00:22:44,678 extra, extra 300. 402 00:22:44,678 --> 00:22:44,948 Yeah. 403 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:46,750 Nice. 404 00:22:47,950 --> 00:22:52,330 yes, I have a friend who had an extra 300, and that's what I, that's what I 405 00:22:52,330 --> 00:22:54,310 did as well as I went up with, with him. 406 00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:58,120 And, uh, I mean, boy, I wish extras weren't so expensive, but 407 00:22:58,810 --> 00:23:00,550 they are awfully fun airplanes. 408 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,430 you know, we started with spins and he demonstrated the first spin and I was 409 00:23:06,430 --> 00:23:08,710 like, oh my gosh, that was really scary. 410 00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:09,610 Let's do it again. 411 00:23:10,403 --> 00:23:10,583 Yeah. 412 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,430 And yeah, I learned how to do loops and rolls and hammerheads and and 413 00:23:16,430 --> 00:23:20,570 you know, you can watch an awful lot of air shows, but the first 414 00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:26,450 time you try and do it for yourself, it's like, oh, that isn't at all. 415 00:23:26,450 --> 00:23:27,770 Like, it looks like, 416 00:23:28,428 --> 00:23:28,518 Yeah. 417 00:23:30,745 --> 00:23:34,430 you know, something like a hammer head or a tail slide looks 418 00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:37,040 really simple, but you know. 419 00:23:38,645 --> 00:23:41,885 Airplanes have three axes and they all affect each other. 420 00:23:42,875 --> 00:23:45,575 Um, and so you learn some things that are, that are really 421 00:23:45,575 --> 00:23:47,205 interesting, by doing that. 422 00:23:48,285 --> 00:23:52,545 So what did you learn in the aerobatics course that helps your everyday flying? 423 00:23:52,545 --> 00:23:52,605 I. 424 00:23:54,643 --> 00:24:03,703 Well, for one, so the airplanes I fly on a day-to-day basis are so much more stable 425 00:24:03,763 --> 00:24:09,283 than an extra 300 by design, that you would think there wouldn't be a lot of. 426 00:24:10,403 --> 00:24:11,273 transfer. 427 00:24:11,573 --> 00:24:16,883 And in some ways, you know, there aren't, but what you get is this ability to 428 00:24:16,883 --> 00:24:24,293 experience a truly maneuverable airplane and to see what, to see what's capable 429 00:24:24,293 --> 00:24:27,053 with the three primary flight controls. 430 00:24:27,393 --> 00:24:31,853 being able to, Manipulate an airplane around those axes in a way that, 431 00:24:32,573 --> 00:24:36,803 and, and at a speed that you've just never experienced before. 432 00:24:37,193 --> 00:24:42,083 And what it does is it, what it did for me is it sort of sped 433 00:24:42,083 --> 00:24:44,363 up my flying clock a little bit. 434 00:24:44,843 --> 00:24:49,073 And so just that little bit of experience, and it would happen even more and 435 00:24:49,073 --> 00:24:53,753 more if I did it more and more if it wasn't so dang expensive like you said. 436 00:24:55,103 --> 00:24:59,483 It sort of speeds up your clock a little bit so that when you start to 437 00:24:59,483 --> 00:25:03,023 see things get outta whack in a more stable training airplane, you, you 438 00:25:03,023 --> 00:25:08,513 recognize it earlier you're able to correct it earlier in a smoother manner. 439 00:25:08,543 --> 00:25:13,463 I'm telling my students this all the time, like I. Catching something early is key 440 00:25:13,823 --> 00:25:17,993 because then the correction doesn't even feel like a correction to your passenger. 441 00:25:18,173 --> 00:25:23,393 You know, it's, it's just a slight change, and I think that's one of the things that 442 00:25:23,393 --> 00:25:27,773 the aerobatic training did for me, along with it just being an absolute blast. 443 00:25:27,863 --> 00:25:28,318 I. Of 444 00:25:30,418 --> 00:25:34,318 being able to tumble around in an airplane, but, um, being in a high 445 00:25:34,318 --> 00:25:36,268 performance airplane, that's just faster. 446 00:25:36,268 --> 00:25:41,468 I think that is part of expanding your envelope a little bit and, seeing that 447 00:25:41,678 --> 00:25:44,978 if things are gonna happen that fast, I'm gonna speed up my clock a little 448 00:25:44,978 --> 00:25:46,958 bit so that I can catch things earlier. 449 00:25:47,678 --> 00:25:49,148 So that's one of the things I noticed. 450 00:25:50,580 --> 00:25:51,755 Yeah, that's a great point. 451 00:25:51,755 --> 00:25:54,185 And you don't need an aerobatics course to do that. 452 00:25:54,245 --> 00:25:56,765 You know, go get yourself a high performance checkout 453 00:25:56,765 --> 00:25:58,055 or complex or something. 454 00:25:58,055 --> 00:26:00,365 Just get into a faster airplane, and 455 00:26:00,723 --> 00:26:01,293 That's right. 456 00:26:01,475 --> 00:26:05,645 I. I mean, honestly, what made the Mooney a relatively easy transition for me was 457 00:26:05,645 --> 00:26:08,495 that I wasn't flying trainers before that. 458 00:26:08,495 --> 00:26:12,335 I was flying stuff like the 182 and the DA 40. 459 00:26:12,395 --> 00:26:15,755 So I was used to the a hundred and thirty five, a hundred forty 460 00:26:15,755 --> 00:26:17,735 knot speed range by that point. 461 00:26:18,325 --> 00:26:23,395 and so jumping up to 170 was not that big of a deal, whereas if I was coming 462 00:26:23,395 --> 00:26:27,325 from something like a 1 72, eh, it might have been more of a big deal. 463 00:26:28,015 --> 00:26:31,705 So, yeah, that, that definitely helps. 464 00:26:31,885 --> 00:26:37,045 and honestly, I think there's, you get to a point where, you know, I 465 00:26:37,045 --> 00:26:41,665 didn't necessarily feel like the TBM was even that much faster. 466 00:26:42,025 --> 00:26:42,355 Hmm. 467 00:26:43,302 --> 00:26:46,822 You know, if you think about it in terms of percentages, yeah, it's faster 468 00:26:46,822 --> 00:26:52,042 at cruise, but once you get down into the approach regime, it's not that 469 00:26:52,042 --> 00:26:53,512 much faster than the Mooney even. 470 00:26:54,022 --> 00:26:58,922 And so I feel like once you, once you speed that clock up, even in something 471 00:26:58,922 --> 00:27:04,712 that's 170 knots, well that gets you used to thinking in the right way. 472 00:27:04,712 --> 00:27:09,092 That when you jump into something that's 300 knots, it's not as big 473 00:27:09,092 --> 00:27:11,282 of a deal as it otherwise would be. 474 00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:12,630 Yeah. 475 00:27:13,487 --> 00:27:17,657 You know, if you can, if you can stay well ahead of 170 knot airplane, you can 476 00:27:17,657 --> 00:27:20,207 probably stay with a 300 knot airplane. 477 00:27:20,337 --> 00:27:22,257 and then work your way up from there. 478 00:27:24,327 --> 00:27:24,987 Um, 479 00:27:25,495 --> 00:27:28,735 when you figure out descent calculations. 480 00:27:28,735 --> 00:27:30,325 That's the important one on those things. 481 00:27:30,357 --> 00:27:30,717 right. 482 00:27:31,077 --> 00:27:31,742 That's the big thing. 483 00:27:31,762 --> 00:27:36,237 And you know, when you're flying a fast airplane in the flight levels, well, 484 00:27:36,627 --> 00:27:38,157 you just have to plan your descent. 485 00:27:38,307 --> 00:27:38,607 you know. 486 00:27:39,402 --> 00:27:43,272 You're the number of miles out you are when you start your 487 00:27:43,272 --> 00:27:45,222 descent is gonna be a lot higher, 488 00:27:46,270 --> 00:27:46,780 Sometimes 489 00:27:46,932 --> 00:27:48,492 the descent lasts a lot longer. 490 00:27:49,902 --> 00:27:50,712 Right, right. 491 00:27:50,712 --> 00:27:51,402 Absolutely. 492 00:27:52,002 --> 00:27:55,992 you know, coming back into Milwaukee here, you know, you always cross a fix 493 00:27:56,112 --> 00:27:58,602 southwest of Chicago at 24,000 feet. 494 00:27:58,602 --> 00:28:02,862 So if you start at 31, you know you're somewhere down in central 495 00:28:02,862 --> 00:28:04,422 Illinois when you start your descent. 496 00:28:05,052 --> 00:28:11,472 And honestly, I started figuring out how to plan descents when I was flying the 182 497 00:28:12,252 --> 00:28:12,472 Oh 498 00:28:12,490 --> 00:28:15,430 know, it's not quite like a 1 72 where it's like, oh, there's the 499 00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:19,210 airport, let me pull the throttle and it'll just go right down, you know? 500 00:28:20,527 --> 00:28:20,827 Yep. 501 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,920 so yeah, there's, there's so many different opportunities to, to expand 502 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,790 your envelope in, in many different ways and, and they're all fun. 503 00:28:30,967 --> 00:28:32,557 of those, yeah, they're all fun. 504 00:28:32,557 --> 00:28:33,727 It's all flying, right? 505 00:28:33,727 --> 00:28:34,897 It's all great experience. 506 00:28:35,197 --> 00:28:39,327 And one of the things we talk about all the time in flying, risk management, 507 00:28:39,327 --> 00:28:44,410 right, is having an out, you have to be able to anticipate what are the risks and 508 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:50,020 what are the ways that I'm going to either avoid those risks or mitigate them or. 509 00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:53,190 Handle them if they turn into an issue, right? 510 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,480 So, um, one of those ways we've talked about, well several of them we've 511 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,200 talked about like taking a specialty instructor, doing a course, um, taking 512 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,560 your instructor with you when you're slightly expanding those envelopes. 513 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,780 But, you know, we can do these things ourselves as solo. 514 00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:14,630 when we're on cross countries, we're gonna be expanding some 515 00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:15,740 of our envelopes because. 516 00:29:16,635 --> 00:29:20,115 like we've talked about before, you, you're gonna run into situations 517 00:29:20,115 --> 00:29:23,865 where you haven't specifically trained for that situation. 518 00:29:24,165 --> 00:29:29,325 And so you're gonna have to use some judgment and you're gonna have to handle 519 00:29:29,325 --> 00:29:31,005 the situation as pilot in command. 520 00:29:31,005 --> 00:29:35,118 And in doing so, you've just added to your quiver, an arrow that. 521 00:29:35,463 --> 00:29:39,453 You know how to handle that in the future, or you might learn from handling it 522 00:29:39,453 --> 00:29:41,343 badly the first time you did it right. 523 00:29:41,673 --> 00:29:47,973 But while we're doing that, always try and have these outs so we 524 00:29:47,973 --> 00:29:49,953 can do that anytime we're flying. 525 00:29:50,193 --> 00:29:53,523 Push the envelope just a little bit, like you said, one corner at a time. 526 00:29:53,763 --> 00:29:56,703 Just make sure you have an out, you know what the risk is and you know 527 00:29:56,703 --> 00:29:58,173 how you're gonna handle that risk. 528 00:30:00,431 --> 00:30:01,211 Absolutely. 529 00:30:01,451 --> 00:30:05,561 You know, if you're doing crosswind practice at a single runway airport 530 00:30:05,561 --> 00:30:09,581 and it's at or above your current personal minimums and you're trying 531 00:30:09,581 --> 00:30:11,231 to expand that part of your envelope. 532 00:30:11,841 --> 00:30:13,731 Don't make yourself force it there. 533 00:30:13,901 --> 00:30:14,321 you know, 534 00:30:14,543 --> 00:30:15,083 Mm-hmm. 535 00:30:15,641 --> 00:30:20,071 ready to, you know, land at that airport across town that has a 536 00:30:20,071 --> 00:30:22,561 runway in a different orientation that's more into the wind. 537 00:30:23,051 --> 00:30:27,221 and doing stuff like that has made a lot easier if you already have a plan 538 00:30:27,221 --> 00:30:31,421 in place for, okay, if I have to do that, who's gonna give me a ride home? 539 00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:31,841 You know? 540 00:30:32,408 --> 00:30:32,738 Yeah. 541 00:30:32,821 --> 00:30:35,611 So there's, there's a lot of, uh, pre-planning that you can 542 00:30:35,611 --> 00:30:40,441 do that makes tougher decisions easier once you're in the air. 543 00:30:40,981 --> 00:30:45,451 in fact, when I know that I'm going to get into a tough situation 544 00:30:45,541 --> 00:30:50,551 in the air, I try and make all the decisions well beforehand. 545 00:30:51,061 --> 00:30:55,361 So being able to make some of the tougher decisions beforehand, and. 546 00:30:56,251 --> 00:31:01,351 Putting hard limits on them that you force yourself to stick to, uh, is 547 00:31:01,351 --> 00:31:05,231 important and it helps you to make a better decision, once you're in the air. 548 00:31:06,041 --> 00:31:09,071 so don't let yourself fall into that. 549 00:31:09,071 --> 00:31:13,451 Get-There-Itis trap of, well, it's only two knots more 550 00:31:13,451 --> 00:31:14,741 than I said it was gonna be. 551 00:31:15,141 --> 00:31:16,941 it's only this, it's only that. 552 00:31:17,301 --> 00:31:20,461 You know, we talked about that a little bit in the last episode, and 553 00:31:20,461 --> 00:31:25,771 in fact, now I'm thinking of another instance and it's back to fuel again. 554 00:31:26,141 --> 00:31:32,831 where I had flown down for a pumpkin bombing session with a couple of friends 555 00:31:32,831 --> 00:31:35,081 and we were flying back late at night. 556 00:31:36,116 --> 00:31:39,206 And, you know, luckily we were flying in an airplane that told 557 00:31:39,206 --> 00:31:41,696 us what our reserve would be. 558 00:31:42,066 --> 00:31:45,156 and I pretty much never go with less than an hour reserve. 559 00:31:45,786 --> 00:31:49,116 and I basically said on the way back, okay, well we're, we're kind 560 00:31:49,116 --> 00:31:52,596 of getting to where we might only land with an hour reserve, so. 561 00:31:53,721 --> 00:31:57,081 You know, if that number there goes below 10 gallons, we're 562 00:31:57,081 --> 00:31:58,281 just gonna stop for fuel. 563 00:31:58,881 --> 00:32:02,901 Even though we would be fine, even though we would have 59 minutes 564 00:32:02,901 --> 00:32:06,521 reserve when we get there, you know, if that number goes below 10 565 00:32:06,521 --> 00:32:07,901 gallons, we're gonna stop for fuel. 566 00:32:08,861 --> 00:32:09,371 Um, 567 00:32:10,253 --> 00:32:11,243 Requirement. 568 00:32:11,441 --> 00:32:11,861 right. 569 00:32:12,441 --> 00:32:16,251 there are so many people who have run out of fuel because of that last minute. 570 00:32:17,223 --> 00:32:17,583 Yep. 571 00:32:18,771 --> 00:32:21,981 So that's one of those things where it's, it's real easy to 572 00:32:22,761 --> 00:32:24,651 make the decision beforehand. 573 00:32:24,741 --> 00:32:27,321 It's not so easy to make the decision in the moment. 574 00:32:28,261 --> 00:32:31,471 it's real easy to talk yourself into, well, I'm tired and 575 00:32:31,471 --> 00:32:33,031 I want to get home quicker. 576 00:32:33,031 --> 00:32:37,861 And, you know, I don't really need the full hour reserve. 577 00:32:37,861 --> 00:32:43,321 You know, 45 minutes is okay according to the FAA, and so I'm not gonna, I'm not 578 00:32:43,321 --> 00:32:45,391 gonna bother landing for fuel now, but. 579 00:32:45,856 --> 00:32:48,166 Then who knows what's gonna happen. 580 00:32:48,166 --> 00:32:49,996 You know, reserves are there for a reason. 581 00:32:49,996 --> 00:32:54,766 And, uh, the margins that we build in for safety, fuel, 582 00:32:54,766 --> 00:32:58,036 and otherwise in our personal minimums, those are all important. 583 00:32:58,666 --> 00:32:58,966 Yeah, 584 00:32:59,178 --> 00:33:03,678 those decisions made in advance as far easier to deal with in the moment. 585 00:33:04,501 --> 00:33:07,801 Right, which is the, the beauty of personal minimums anyway, 586 00:33:07,891 --> 00:33:09,151 as long as you stick to them. 587 00:33:09,581 --> 00:33:12,641 so it may seem like we're contradicting ourselves a little bit. 588 00:33:12,641 --> 00:33:16,041 So we're gonna dive into this, these personal minimums that we. 589 00:33:16,056 --> 00:33:20,256 That we all try and have super important and sticking to them is super important. 590 00:33:20,586 --> 00:33:23,556 Of course, today's topic is about expanding those, and I 591 00:33:23,556 --> 00:33:24,936 just wanna make a distinction. 592 00:33:25,146 --> 00:33:29,346 Some of our personal minimums have to do with safety margins and some of our 593 00:33:29,346 --> 00:33:34,396 personal minimums have to do with our skills, our proficiency as a pilot. 594 00:33:35,586 --> 00:33:40,506 it's the, the proficiency or skills as a pilot that we're wanting to expand. 595 00:33:40,506 --> 00:33:46,536 We want to expand our flying abilities, which will expand our safety margins, 596 00:33:46,806 --> 00:33:51,006 which will allow us to make flights and do flights that are really fun. 597 00:33:51,006 --> 00:33:55,266 And sometimes we could make a landing because we've expanded our skills that 598 00:33:55,266 --> 00:33:58,356 we wouldn't have been able to before we expanded our personal minimums. 599 00:33:58,716 --> 00:34:03,306 So all of these things are good, we're talking about safety margins, 600 00:34:03,376 --> 00:34:07,816 like for instance, fuel and things like that, we wanna make sure we're 601 00:34:07,816 --> 00:34:12,326 sticking to these personal minimums, because that's what they're there for. 602 00:34:12,326 --> 00:34:16,256 They're there to help us not make a bad decision in the moment. 603 00:34:17,186 --> 00:34:18,806 when, when we talk about. 604 00:34:19,941 --> 00:34:21,411 you know, expanding the envelope. 605 00:34:21,651 --> 00:34:23,421 That's not where, what we're really talking about. 606 00:34:23,421 --> 00:34:28,551 We're talking about expanding your capabilities as a pilot and your 607 00:34:28,551 --> 00:34:30,591 proficiency and things like that. 608 00:34:30,861 --> 00:34:33,621 So I just wanted to make that distinction 'cause it almost sounds like we're 609 00:34:33,621 --> 00:34:35,181 contradicting ourselves a little bit. 610 00:34:35,511 --> 00:34:36,891 Do you have any comments on that, Kent? 611 00:34:38,128 --> 00:34:41,663 Yeah, I mean, I think, To some extent, you know, to, to expand your 612 00:34:41,663 --> 00:34:45,743 personal minimums, you're going to have to get into a situation where. 613 00:34:46,853 --> 00:34:49,853 You are going beyond what they used to be. 614 00:34:50,721 --> 00:34:51,231 Yep. 615 00:34:51,413 --> 00:34:55,763 like we said before, one thing at a time, you know, if I am expanding 616 00:34:55,763 --> 00:35:00,293 my personal minimums for crosswinds, I'm going to go do that on a day 617 00:35:00,293 --> 00:35:02,633 where I can just go do it by myself. 618 00:35:02,633 --> 00:35:06,993 I'm not necessarily gonna do it when I'm, you know, a thousand miles away from 619 00:35:06,993 --> 00:35:08,733 home with my family on board, you know? 620 00:35:09,406 --> 00:35:10,906 Right, right. 621 00:35:11,043 --> 00:35:12,693 all of these things, uh, and. 622 00:35:13,243 --> 00:35:16,363 You know, let's talk a little bit more about personal minimums, because I think 623 00:35:16,363 --> 00:35:20,683 a lot of people, you know, a lot of the Type A personalities that we sometimes 624 00:35:20,683 --> 00:35:26,683 get in aviation are averse to having such things because it seems like it's 625 00:35:26,683 --> 00:35:28,663 a weakness or something like that. 626 00:35:29,143 --> 00:35:33,733 and it's also really easy to say, well, it's not that far beyond 627 00:35:33,733 --> 00:35:35,083 my personal minimums, right? 628 00:35:35,868 --> 00:35:43,248 I will say that I think that there is thumb room for, Going beyond, of course, 629 00:35:43,248 --> 00:35:48,228 like we've been talking about in the, quest to make yourself a better pilot. 630 00:35:48,648 --> 00:35:52,938 But again, like we were talking about earlier, one thing at a time. 631 00:35:53,476 --> 00:35:53,696 Yep. 632 00:35:53,898 --> 00:35:58,778 so one way that, some air carriers and the civil air patrol and 633 00:35:58,778 --> 00:36:01,418 some private pilots will do this. 634 00:36:02,113 --> 00:36:05,023 is they'll use what's called a flight risk assessment tool, and 635 00:36:05,023 --> 00:36:10,633 that assigns a certain number of points to each little thing that 636 00:36:10,633 --> 00:36:13,033 might cause a little bit of risk. 637 00:36:13,453 --> 00:36:18,793 And so there may be things that are within all of your personal minimums, 638 00:36:19,603 --> 00:36:23,653 but they're within all of your personal minimums at once, if you know what I mean. 639 00:36:24,783 --> 00:36:29,463 you know, you might have a flight that's, well, it's six miles of visibility. 640 00:36:29,463 --> 00:36:30,243 That's okay. 641 00:36:30,953 --> 00:36:34,163 And I'm gonna have a crosswind that's right up against my limits. 642 00:36:34,643 --> 00:36:34,943 Oh. 643 00:36:34,943 --> 00:36:38,063 And there's gonna be a ceiling that's only 500 feet above my 644 00:36:38,063 --> 00:36:41,303 cruising altitude and this and that. 645 00:36:42,518 --> 00:36:45,848 Even if it checks all the boxes for your personal minimums, 646 00:36:45,848 --> 00:36:47,318 that's not a good flight to take. 647 00:36:48,068 --> 00:36:53,228 so if you want to get into a formal flight risk assessment tool, I think 648 00:36:53,228 --> 00:36:57,698 the, the Civil Air Patrol one might be available publicly on the web. 649 00:36:57,698 --> 00:36:58,928 I'm not sure about that. 650 00:36:59,496 --> 00:36:59,826 There's a 651 00:36:59,828 --> 00:37:01,958 don't know if you're aware of any that are out there. 652 00:37:02,901 --> 00:37:04,881 Yeah, there's, there's a few of them out there. 653 00:37:04,881 --> 00:37:05,931 You can look them up. 654 00:37:06,021 --> 00:37:11,061 Um, some of them are apps on your phone, some of them are spreadsheets, 655 00:37:11,061 --> 00:37:12,981 some of them are websites. 656 00:37:13,311 --> 00:37:17,791 So, yeah, there, there's different ways to do that, but however you do it. 657 00:37:18,591 --> 00:37:22,641 you're talking about is risk assessment, which is what we have been entrusted to 658 00:37:22,641 --> 00:37:29,311 do as pilots in command of an aircraft figuring out there's, there's too 659 00:37:29,311 --> 00:37:31,741 many risks to mitigate all at once. 660 00:37:32,071 --> 00:37:34,411 And that's a no-go decision, right? 661 00:37:34,441 --> 00:37:35,611 And we have to be willing to 662 00:37:35,713 --> 00:37:36,003 Right. 663 00:37:36,331 --> 00:37:40,531 about that at length in our last episode about probably the biggest safety tool 664 00:37:40,531 --> 00:37:42,361 we have for CrossCountry airplanes. 665 00:37:42,481 --> 00:37:45,831 CrossCountry flying, I should say, is, flexibility. 666 00:37:47,091 --> 00:37:50,901 in our schedule, flexibility, being willing to divert, being 667 00:37:50,901 --> 00:37:52,861 willing to, call a no go. 668 00:37:53,311 --> 00:37:59,321 so, that's the same thing when, when we're assessing any flight is, you know, if 669 00:37:59,321 --> 00:38:03,581 there's too many things that are close to the edge of the envelope, really have to 670 00:38:03,581 --> 00:38:05,711 assess, can I mitigate all of this risk? 671 00:38:06,046 --> 00:38:06,916 All at once. 672 00:38:07,216 --> 00:38:12,526 And that's, that's one of the responsibilities that we have as pilots 673 00:38:12,526 --> 00:38:13,966 in command that we should never forget. 674 00:38:13,966 --> 00:38:15,736 That's a big, big responsibility. 675 00:38:16,721 --> 00:38:17,561 Absolutely. 676 00:38:17,891 --> 00:38:22,591 And you know, several minutes ago, bill stopped me because I started 677 00:38:22,591 --> 00:38:26,131 to tell a story that I had told on a different episode and forgotten about. 678 00:38:27,031 --> 00:38:30,481 and I was just thinking, if we ever get repetitive on the show 679 00:38:30,481 --> 00:38:32,341 here, there's a reason for that. 680 00:38:33,661 --> 00:38:36,991 Those are the lessons that we have learned that have really stuck. 681 00:38:37,381 --> 00:38:37,731 true. 682 00:38:38,123 --> 00:38:42,653 you know, and so those are the, the most important things. 683 00:38:42,953 --> 00:38:47,723 To listen to are those things that keep coming up again and again when we're 684 00:38:47,723 --> 00:38:53,093 talking about safety is, you know, they come up many times for many reasons. 685 00:38:53,463 --> 00:38:57,063 and those are the things that are really important. 686 00:38:57,946 --> 00:38:58,186 That's 687 00:38:58,533 --> 00:38:59,463 and you know what? 688 00:38:59,463 --> 00:39:03,783 If you hear Bill say something and then I say it, and then some 689 00:39:03,783 --> 00:39:07,773 flight instructor at your airport says it, there's a reason for that. 690 00:39:08,193 --> 00:39:08,703 so 691 00:39:09,046 --> 00:39:09,616 is true. 692 00:39:10,068 --> 00:39:10,188 I. 693 00:39:10,426 --> 00:39:15,146 of the bottom line here, is we, we need to find safe ways to 694 00:39:15,146 --> 00:39:21,156 expose ourselves situations that are beyond our comfort level or 695 00:39:21,156 --> 00:39:23,996 beyond our, our, current minimums. 696 00:39:25,256 --> 00:39:29,846 as we get exposed to those situations in a safe manner where we have our outs. 697 00:39:30,061 --> 00:39:35,621 we have our risk mitigation in place, then they're gonna become less risky for us. 698 00:39:35,681 --> 00:39:39,791 They're gonna become less dangerous and and less scary. 699 00:39:40,151 --> 00:39:43,391 And that's what we want to do as we expand our envelope, as 700 00:39:43,391 --> 00:39:48,041 we expand our capabilities and become more and more proficient. 701 00:39:48,401 --> 00:39:51,311 And so what we've talked about today is, is. 702 00:39:51,676 --> 00:39:56,146 Just a few ways that you can do that, and I'm sure you can think of dozens of 703 00:39:56,146 --> 00:39:58,006 other ways that you can do that as well. 704 00:39:58,456 --> 00:40:02,626 It, it's funny, I've had a couple of students who started flight training 705 00:40:02,626 --> 00:40:07,726 and, and realized that they were really susceptible air sickness. 706 00:40:08,276 --> 00:40:13,506 And so it, it was disappointing to them to realize that, Hey, I really 707 00:40:13,506 --> 00:40:16,836 want to do this thing that I've always wanted to do and here I am suffering. 708 00:40:16,836 --> 00:40:19,056 My body is not happy with me doing it. 709 00:40:20,276 --> 00:40:22,736 I've told them, because I've seen it happen multiple times, 710 00:40:22,736 --> 00:40:25,766 I've told them, Hey, the only way to get through it is exposure. 711 00:40:26,231 --> 00:40:26,591 Right. 712 00:40:26,931 --> 00:40:29,481 if you want to get over this, you probably can. 713 00:40:29,811 --> 00:40:33,181 There might be a few people who can't, but, most people can. 714 00:40:33,481 --> 00:40:36,811 And it's really about being exposed to this thing your body doesn't want 715 00:40:36,811 --> 00:40:41,101 you doing until it accepts the fact that, hey, this is my new normal. 716 00:40:41,716 --> 00:40:43,016 And that's really what we're talking. 717 00:40:43,016 --> 00:40:43,946 And it, and it works. 718 00:40:43,946 --> 00:40:46,526 It's worked every time so far with my students. 719 00:40:46,906 --> 00:40:48,916 and it works for other things too. 720 00:40:48,916 --> 00:40:50,866 You just expose yourself. 721 00:40:50,926 --> 00:40:56,126 This is exposure therapy to, situations in flying that could be 722 00:40:56,126 --> 00:41:00,716 potentially risky or dangerous until we get proficient at handling them. 723 00:41:00,926 --> 00:41:03,266 And then we can move on to things that go even further. 724 00:41:03,991 --> 00:41:04,861 Absolutely. 725 00:41:05,429 --> 00:41:08,969 And one more thing I wanted to mention, and you may have some others, Kent, 726 00:41:08,969 --> 00:41:12,929 but one more thing I wanted to mention because I, I think it's a cool program. 727 00:41:13,289 --> 00:41:17,189 but there's the, the WINGS program from the FAA. 728 00:41:17,469 --> 00:41:20,469 but one of the things I like about it is that these are experiences. 729 00:41:20,469 --> 00:41:24,729 Everybody knows we have to do a, a flight review every 24 calendar months, right? 730 00:41:25,050 --> 00:41:26,610 but that's the bare minimum. 731 00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:31,020 And what we've been talking about today is use opportunities to go practice, 732 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,750 use opportunities to take a flight instructor, take a course, get an 733 00:41:34,750 --> 00:41:40,700 additional, rating, whatever it takes to expose yourself to more experiences. 734 00:41:40,915 --> 00:41:42,625 More opportunities to learn. 735 00:41:43,075 --> 00:41:46,855 And one of the things that does that is the WINGS program because There are 736 00:41:46,855 --> 00:41:53,105 different levels, that, or phases they call them, that you can participate in. 737 00:41:53,345 --> 00:41:57,005 And as you do them, it, it gives you opportunities to expose yourself, 738 00:41:57,005 --> 00:42:01,295 not only to classroom learning, which is part of the program, but 739 00:42:01,295 --> 00:42:05,075 also getting out with an instructor and doing some practice together. 740 00:42:05,075 --> 00:42:09,395 And those are great opportunities to expand, push that envelope 741 00:42:09,395 --> 00:42:10,445 one corner at a time. 742 00:42:10,445 --> 00:42:11,015 I really like. 743 00:42:11,490 --> 00:42:17,590 Kent's, analogy there, you're pushing one corner at a time and things that 744 00:42:17,590 --> 00:42:23,770 you do as part of these phases in wings, believe they only last for a year. 745 00:42:24,610 --> 00:42:29,085 I. It's half the time that we have to do our flight reviews, right? 746 00:42:29,115 --> 00:42:34,335 And so I just love this idea of continual learning, continually pushing 747 00:42:34,335 --> 00:42:39,135 one corner of the envelope at a time and expanding our abilities, expanding 748 00:42:39,135 --> 00:42:41,825 our Our capabilities, in flying. 749 00:42:42,065 --> 00:42:45,425 So that's one thing I wanted to mention is that the WINGS program can be a 750 00:42:45,425 --> 00:42:50,405 good way beyond the check ride to continually learn and take care of 751 00:42:50,405 --> 00:42:54,935 your, your flight reviews at the same time, but do them over time instead 752 00:42:54,935 --> 00:42:56,555 of doing them once every two years. 753 00:42:57,334 --> 00:42:58,084 Absolutely. 754 00:42:58,864 --> 00:42:59,404 Um, 755 00:42:59,581 --> 00:42:59,791 this 756 00:43:00,004 --> 00:43:02,224 can't be overly current. 757 00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:05,026 Yes, exactly. 758 00:43:05,476 --> 00:43:06,946 Or overly proficient 759 00:43:07,144 --> 00:43:11,284 okay to get an instrument proficiency check every six months. 760 00:43:11,344 --> 00:43:12,904 I know a lot of people who do that. 761 00:43:13,494 --> 00:43:17,184 you know, you'll get more out of it than you will just going up 762 00:43:17,184 --> 00:43:18,894 with a safety pilot or whatever. 763 00:43:18,894 --> 00:43:27,084 Uh, you know, so I, I have never had a situation where I learned something 764 00:43:27,084 --> 00:43:29,214 new about flying and didn't enjoy it. 765 00:43:29,994 --> 00:43:30,534 Um. 766 00:43:31,299 --> 00:43:33,219 You know, sometimes things like 767 00:43:33,456 --> 00:43:33,726 that 768 00:43:33,729 --> 00:43:39,579 going to a wing seminar or, you know, doing an instrument proficiency 769 00:43:39,579 --> 00:43:43,509 check or something like that, they, they don't necessarily sound fun, 770 00:43:44,769 --> 00:43:46,749 but you're learning about flying. 771 00:43:46,749 --> 00:43:47,919 You're going flying. 772 00:43:48,339 --> 00:43:49,299 It's good stuff. 773 00:43:49,419 --> 00:43:52,689 So get out there and do it. 774 00:43:53,826 --> 00:43:55,476 Yeah, I love, I love what you said there. 775 00:43:55,476 --> 00:43:57,186 It's like you've never learned something. 776 00:43:58,446 --> 00:43:59,886 I. About flying and gone. 777 00:43:59,886 --> 00:44:01,506 Boy, I wish I wouldn't have learned that. 778 00:44:01,896 --> 00:44:03,816 You know, it's always fun. 779 00:44:03,816 --> 00:44:05,166 It always turns out fun. 780 00:44:06,021 --> 00:44:07,401 Well, Kent, that was a great topic. 781 00:44:07,401 --> 00:44:08,991 Thanks for bringing that to us today. 782 00:44:09,381 --> 00:44:13,821 I think we all need to remember that we need to expand our capabilities like 783 00:44:13,821 --> 00:44:18,411 we've been talking about, and find really fun and, and great ways to do that. 784 00:44:18,681 --> 00:44:20,331 And I think we've covered most of them today. 785 00:44:20,331 --> 00:44:23,421 Anything else you wanted to to say before we close it up? 786 00:44:25,583 --> 00:44:26,423 I think that's it. 787 00:44:26,423 --> 00:44:27,503 Get out there and fly. 788 00:44:28,761 --> 00:44:29,901 Get out there and fly. 789 00:44:29,901 --> 00:44:30,381 I love it. 790 00:44:30,801 --> 00:44:32,331 Well, thanks again and we'll talk soon. 791 00:44:33,038 --> 00:44:33,728 All right, we'll see ya.