Alright. Hello. Welcome back to become a calm mama. I am

your host, Darlyn Childress. And today, we have a very

special guest. I am going to

interview or just have a conversation with TJ teams,

and I'm so excited because she is a certified Enneagram

educator. And she's a counselor and a teacher, and

Her life passion is to help people grow as is mine

as a life coach and a parenting coach, and she uses the Enneagram.

So Welcome, TJ, to the podcast. And

tell us a little bit about the Enneagram. What is it, and why do you

love it? Yeah. Thanks. It's good good to chat

with you. I think it's a great it's a great tool for personal growth, but

it's really fun to talk about it in terms of parenting because it can be

so enlightening. It's a tool used for personal

growth, a self awareness tool, A tool used to improve our

relationship. It's been around for over 2000 years. It

has a lot of great history, and it's used in all different areas.

I love it because it's really accessible. You can dive deep and study

it for years, or you can just tap in a little bit and take what's

useful to you to really have new eyes for your relationships.

Yeah. The way I like to talk about it, what's It's been really

useful for me and and the people that I've been working with is thinking about

as a set of binoculars that we each in life are

given this Unique set of binoculars and the according to

Enneagram personality theory, there's 9 basic

ways of seeing the world. And within those 9, I mean,

there's so much diversity. I'm not saying there's 9 kinds of people. That's

insane. But just a general way of seeing things.

And so when you're wearing so for Enneagram

1, if you're a 1, you're wearing the set of 1 binoculars,

And what you see, just like with binoculars, what you can see, you see

it so well. You see it so clearly, and you're just

like, this is important. But with binoculars,

right, someone can come sneak up behind you and you don't see them. We each

are seeing something very clearly and we're also missing

a lot. The invitation is

celebrate what you see well, that's awesome, and be willing to be sort

of open minded and humble enough To say, hey. What am I missing?

How do you see the world? What do you see well? What can you teach

me? What can I teach you? So that's It's kind of the

ground ground level of the way I teach it just to get that sort

of humble, compassionate kind of view. Mhmm. When

I share my Enneagram number, it feels very personal. It's like Mhmm.

Oh, you now you know, like, what's you know it's hard

for me. You know? Alex. Yes. You know how to me up.

Yeah. Exactly. So it it has to be a very respectful space,

and And we never type anybody else, you know, because

the Enneagram is based on motivation, not behavior. So I can see

your behavior and think, oh, you must be a whatever, But I

don't know what your motivation is. You're the only one that knows that. And

so just being respectful in that way also of other people.

Yeah. Well, why don't we just start with my number? It's funny

because probably the way that people feel about sharing their number has to do with

their number, which is Funny to me. Yes. Yes. So my Enneagram is

a 2, and I am called the helper or

the befriender. And You shared

in your email with everybody that the our prime my primary identity

is I help others. And I remember when I first read and Realized I

was a 2. I found it so almost

embarrassing to be a 2 because it felt like

this is such a needy number. It's like because the

twos, they want to be liked, and they wanna meet

the needs of others. So it looks almost altruistic, but it's

Also, I wanna not necessarily me, but the 2 wants to be

acknowledged for being helpful. So there's, like,

this need there. And then you write attempt to

orchestrate the people and events in their lives for long time listeners

of the podcast. Think back to the series, like, perfectionism and motherhood

in, you know, lowering your standards. I have all these different areas where

I'm, like, trying to find some freedom of

hyperparenting, hypercontrol, Perfectionism in

terms of people pleasing, making sure people like me, all of that,

like, feeling insecure in that identity sometimes.

So now I'm curious based on what I've just shared. Do you want anything

about twos? But also, how do you see it show up as in parenting? I'm

curious. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I'll just make 1 comment

you said about being embarrassing. Yeah. We usually say when you

when you find your Enneagram number, You know you found it because you

think it's the worst number Yeah. Of all the numbers because it's You really wanna

be the other one? Yeah. I know. You're like, oh, this is the worst

one. But, there's no there there's no

better number than another, but there is that feeling of, like, oh, you

just saw something inside that I've been working to hide.

And that's kind of the tender part of it, you know. Yeah.

So 2 if we're just talking about twos here, the

Two parents can be great because they can be so warm and encouraging

because they tend to be very intuitive and relational and

connected with feelings. But we're the Wait. Everyone is

who's listening just is laughing so hard because that is 100%

Yes. My my who I am and what I talk about, and, yeah, it's very

funny. Right. So Mhmm. What what can be good as we as we

learn about ourselves is, like, I'm gonna notice in my

parenting, like, Is my exchanges with my children

very focused on relationships and feelings

Mhmm. And, how people are perceiving

you. Like, are you liked? Does your teachers like you? What can you

do to make sure your teachers like you or your friends? And

That's an overfocus. Not that those things aren't important,

but where whatever number we are, we can tend to overfocus

on this Binocular situation. Yeah.

So the warning for twos is let your kid maybe

not care about this thing so Maybe they're caring about something

else because they see the world differently. Enneagram 2

parents can tend to micromanage Their kids, they

can tend to overdo for their kids in an effort

to, quote, help. Yeah. Now they've sort of

Unintentionally maybe taught their kids that they really can't

function without this 2 parent because the 2 parent

knows how to help better than anybody else. Mhmm. And

so when we think about it, we're like, well, I don't I don't mean to

do that. I I wanna launch a kid who's totally independent and confident in their

abilities to do anything, but it takes that work, that personal

work, and that self awareness to go, oh, what unintentional

message Am I sending to my kid? Yeah. Yeah. So,

the other thing to think about that I've done when I these teach These

parenting classes is what are the expectations that I'm

sending. Mhmm. So for Enneagram 2 parents, it's

like I'm sending the message that being

helpful is very, very important. Are you helping your teachers

at school? Are you offering to pass out papers? Are you bringing Extra

snacks for your friends who maybe didn't bring their lunch, like and, again,

none of this is is quote good or bad. It's just

noticing, oh, wow. Parent of a different number

is what are they teaching their kids? You know? What are What are they focusing

on? Focused on. Mhmm. Yeah. So just just that awareness. Yeah.

You know. So great. I have spent a lot

of time healing. And what it's funny to hear you talk

about The 2 and the the traps, right, or whatever the, you know, the

pitfalls of Yeah. Of it and just how much I

have Had to learn not to rescue, and I talk about it a lot in

my programs and in my, and I think we all rescue for different reasons in

the Enneagram. Like Mhmm. Because maybe we're Uncomfortable with their children's

discomfort or things like that. But Right. It's really work

to cultivate trust and to allow for kids to make mistakes

and grow and communicate. You've got it. You can handle it. And as

a 2 parent, this might not be true for other parents who are listening, but

I then have to find some other identity, like,

that's not in helping them. Like or or teach

myself but this is helping them. So that's one of the

sentences I have to use for myself is

this Mistake or this failure or this bad grade or this whatever

relationship struggle, what whatever is going on with them. I need to know

that I am helping them by not helping them, and I almost need to, like,

coach myself through that this is the higher

purpose, the bigger picture. And it still has the word help in it, which is

funny to me. You know? It's it's I still need to calm myself

by saying I'm still helping. Yes. I know. The question

is, is your is my helping helping? Mhmm. You know, I'm

calling it help, but for Enneagram twos, like,

each each number has kind of a A downfall, it's called in

Enneagram language, it's called a passion, and for twos, it's pride.

And so, like, sometimes, is my helping just about

me looking good, You know? And being the, quote, best mom or best

helper. Yeah. And then my kids' needs kinda getting lost in

that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. It's so great.

Well, we can move on from me for sure.

I have my own vulnerability hangover happening here. No. I'm just kidding.

I know. It's all good. Okay. So what number should we talk

about next? What are you what are your Well, you know what? I think what's

interesting is to Talk about them, and you mentioned triads.

Like, they're one of the triads. It's just different way of grouping the

numbers is, Your stance. And so since

you talked about twos, ones and sixes

are go together with twos in the dependent stance. So

in terms of parenting, that's interesting because ones, twos, and

sixes are really looking outside themselves, looking to

their kids, like, oh, You know, what's what's happening?

Where other numbers are more independently minded. Not that these numbers

aren't independent people. That's not what I'm talking about. Mhmm. I'm

talking about how we just reference ourselves.

Mhmm. So for ones, this is our Perfectionist,

which I don't love that word, but our reformer. And their

binoculars are, I know how to make the world better. I know how to

improve this situation. I know how to

make the system function better. Like, they make our

world a better place in that for that. So they can help as

parents do that. They can help their kids see those details that they

may not see, But then the downside is

they can be overly critical and very focused on

these details that maybe their kids Don't care

about or maybe at the end of the day, don't really matter to anybody

else but them. And so,

I would imagine that comes up with homework or grades or

points quite a bit. The 1 parent

really kind of feeling like we need to do it all and do it

almost perfectly. Like, there's not a lot of room for May may

I could see that coming up in homework and grades, particularly. Prop maybe chores

too. Yeah. Yeah. Chores, rooms, like

and it and it's not the thing Thing with Enneagram is it's so

easy to flip to, like, behavior. So you're like, oh, so all

ones are super organized, have a clean house or a little bit OCD.

Mhmm. You know, it's just like a way to make the world better. So

for 11, that might be their health, and they're just, like, super

Particular about vitamins and how they eat and for other, it might be, like,

their car is totally clean and their house is perfect and, you know, so

it just Depends. I'm here to make the world better because I can

see it. I see how to make it better, which is that's like a

superpower. Like, each number kinda has their superpower.

And for sixes, that's our loyalist,

which is my favorite name for the 6. They all have, like, A couple different

names, but the questioner, they're very loyal,

very, also looking outside themselves,

referenced outside by themselves. And sixes are

great parents and that they're very loyal and they're very vigilant

in protecting their kids. They really

are aware of, like, kind of scanning for potential

problems, potential safety issues. They're Ahead of kind of the

rest of us in seeing those things, which is great.

Where it can be hard for 6 parents is when

There's they can commute because they're so vigilant, they can communicate to

their kids. Like, the world's actually not a safe place. Mhmm. And

you need you need me to be Looking out for you, and you need to

be looking out all the time to, make sure you're okay. You

need to ask a bunch of questions to make sure you know exactly what you're

walking into. Well, I liked I wanted to say on the

Integrom 6 and the, you said that their primary identity is I do

my duty. And so sometimes we think about them

as, like, you know, being vigilant and being a little bit worried and

and all of that. But The sixes are also like the doers.

Right? They can they're the moms or the dads or whatever who

We'll always show up for the party with the thing that they said they

were gonna bring and, like, you know, they they are

reliable. Mhmm. And Yes. Sixes I one

thing I love about sixes is they're very group minded. Mhmm. It's like it's

kind of caretaking for the group. Yeah. So twos

maybe is a little more this each individual relationship.

Mhmm. And ones are caretaking more of their environment,

and sixes are caretaking more of the group. So it's safety.

It's they're willing to be second in order to,

put the group ahead of them. So it's it's that vigilant safety thing, but

it's also, like, Their identity is so what you said. Like, you can

count on me. I am loyal. Yeah. Does it show up in

parenting, like I know this is true

of twos where I won't eat

like, if there's only 7 Chick nuggets, I'm definitely gonna, like, not eat a chicken

nugget. I'm gonna give the kids the chicken nuggets, and, like, I'll just eat something

else, like, whatever dirt. Like, Almost. I mean Uh-huh.

I I'm I've learned to assert my own

needs and communicate, like, that I have them.

But I'm wondering with sixes if you see that they do

that too or that is could be a behavior you see

in sixes. Yeah. It can be. I,

the again, there's such a Different flavor of

each number. In my work, when I'm helping a

mom who is trying to figure out How to where

does she fit in the family model and in, like, where do my

needs come in? Like, I need to sleep, and I have a toddler who will

not go to bed unless I'm in the room. And, like,

you know, all these disruptions, and I'm

wanting to always support the child and the developmental

needs and then also, like, how can we get this mama to get some sleep

too? So I'm Curious if there's certain Enneagram

types that have a harder time asserting their needs or

communicating. I I count. I

matter. I have I I need this. Yes. Yeah.

Definitely. I mean, definitely I mean, any number can do that,

obviously, but this dependent stance 1, 2, and 6 Mhmm. Are

so other oriented. Yeah. And I don't say that, like,

they're That's not that's no there's no pride in that. You know, there's the

there's good and bad of being self oriented and being other oriented.

Like, I think sometimes, in parenting,

it's really kinda what I wanted to I'm glad we're doing it in these stances.

I think it's really interesting. I think sometimes

there are moms who feel guilty because they

are self centered or, you know, self Mhmm.

Oriented. Then they look at the other moms who are,

like, the super sacrificial and give up their

careers and, You know, then they judge themselves as Right. Like,

something's wrong with me that I'm not this amazing self

sacrificing gooey mom. And and I really always

am like, no. Everybody has their skills and their gifting, and

it's okay. Like, how you show up, Who you are

in health is great for your kid. It's okay. But Yeah. For sure.

For everyone to understand that some of us are more group

or others oriented, and some of us are more self oriented.

And we don't we really ought not be comparing to all the other moms

Right. In general. Right. But especially in this way of, like, who's

the better mom, and are we using martyrdom or self sacrifice

Totally. To prove that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little soapboxy for me, but

yeah. No. I think that's really good. And I think that's where the Enneagram

helps. It kinda levels the playing field. Yeah. You know? And

also for these these dependent numbers of being other oriented, it's

like but why? What's the motivation? Am I just doing

it to get gold star, and I'm just doing it to prove that I'm better

or, we just talked about sixes. A lot of

times, sixes Do that to feel secure and feel safe.

Like, okay. I've locked in. Everyone can count on me. So now

I know when everything goes down, then You'll have my

back. Yeah. Right. So it's not the

behavior as much as what's going on, what's the motivation. And

what if we could for What if we could help

and caretake and be vigilant in a way that's

sort of free of trying to be safe. You know? What if we could just

feel safe and whole and valuable and then add our

gifts on top of that? Like, that's the goal of the Enneagram

work. We all have these, motivations, as you say, right, because we're

seeking something outside. And if we learn to

Kind of create that within ourselves Mhmm. We can be in a little

bit less of that stressed state. Right. Okay. Let's go

to the next tryout. Everyone's dying. They're all like, okay. Tell me the next So

you know? Stance. Contrast, we have the aggressive

stance. Oh, everyone right now is like, holy shit.

That's me, and don't I don't wanna know. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So

everyone be nice to yourselves as you listen. Aggressive stance

or assertive stance is another way to say it, and also ones,

twos, and sixes, dependent stance that's kind of a

Word. It's also can call the earning stance of, like,

I need to do this thing to earn my place or to earn my

safety or my security or whatever. So 3, 7,

8 are aggressive stance. So threes are performer

or achiever. They're really focused on being

seen as Successful. So that it's that image. How do you see

me? Not just being successful, but being seen as successful.

Know that I got these awards, not just I got

them. Yeah. And they're not necessarily braggy, but in

their own quiet way, this is just what's important.

Mhmm. And threes are, I mean, the threes I know, like, what they

get done in a day is amazing. Like Yeah. Yeah.

High capacity. That is their gift. They have a lot of

energy, a lot of capacity. They tend to be really driven,

and this aggressive stance is more independent. Something I

love about threes is because of that independent mindset,

it's like, I know I'm gonna I can go, like, do

these amazing things, and I have they have great vision and and can

set amazing goals that to me are, like, super intimidating. Like, I would never

set a goal that high for So, you know but for 3, that's like

what it's what gets them through the day, and what a gift to the

kids of 3. It's of, like, They're just like, yeah. Sure. You I

know you can do it. You know? They're such great cheerleaders, such great encouragers,

but what can be hard Where that can kind of go south for

3 parents is maybe expecting things of

their kids that maybe they aren't able to do or are not even

able, just aren't interested. And we've already talked about the 2.

So a 3 parent with a 2 child, like, that

child's more focused maybe on their their relationships,

you know, and having really good relationships. And, like, I don't have to make

the honor roll. You know? Like, I'm gonna Do well, but, like,

I don't care. I don't wanna be on student body government. I don't wanna you

know? Mhmm. So just knowing that, but,

So sometimes threes can expect their kids to be like little superstars.

You know? Like, they know in them themselves as a Parent, I can go do

all these things. And it's not they're not necessarily all

CEOs of companies, but within their world whatever they see as

successful, They're typically really good

at making that happen, but being careful of, like, okay.

How is that viewpoint affecting my children? What am I telling them is

the most important thing? Because for threes, like, just slow

down and be unquote unproductive, like, But

maybe we could look at rest as productive. It's hard. That curiosity

is another part of that is looking at my kids and going, what can

they Teach me. You know? Like, what am I in

my Enneagram number, I'm missing a few things, and maybe

those things are in my kids. Okay. Good. So 3. We

have that's the, the achiever. Yes. What else is in

this aggressive stance? Yeah. Our Sevens are aggressive

number on also. I'm the adventurer, the enthusiast.

Seven parents are great at having fun, Great

at having adventures, being spontaneous, think

outside the bot. They're not rigid. They're open Open to

new ideas, they're open to adventure, they're open

to, oh wow, what do you think about that? Like possibilities.

Wow, That is such a gift to kids. You know?

Because kids in general school, you know, it's pretty

rigid. It's pretty, you know, cookie cutter. And and so

7 parents can really just open kids' eyes to what's

possible, which is awesome. But what can be hard is 7

parents sometimes can avoid Discipline or structure

because it's kind of a downer. Discipline, like,

really puts limits on things. Sevens are

known, like, their identity is I'm happy, I'm fun. And one

of the key struggles for Sevens is sitting with sadness

or Sitting with boredom, and it kinda feels like if I go there, I'm

just gonna be stuck. And 7s never wanna be

stuck. They just want all the options and all the open ideas.

So as parents with a kid who may be kind of super moody

kid, and that's just how they're wired or maybe they're They're not

necessarily that way or they have a really hard time. If you're a 7

parent, it's your tendency to be like, it's okay. It's gonna get

better, or let's go get ice cream, or or is it like,

that sucks. Tell me about it. How are you feeling?

So for sevens, like to sit in the junk and sit

even in their own sadness, their own admitting, their own disappointments.

That part can be really, really hard. Yeah. It's such a

barrier to this type of parenting that I'm teaching. It's like

compassionate parenting and parenting through connection, and

it really requires being comfortable with our

children's discomfort, being able to someone else's

emotions because little kids don't have language for the messy

insides. They don't know what to talk about it. So we wanna Coach them

by naming emotion and and saying, like, this looks like

sadness. Is are you feeling sad? You know? Mhmm. Kind of Taking what we

can see on the outside and giving language to it and helping them find

sort of what we do with the Enneagram. Like Mhmm. You know, is this what's

going on inside? Yeah. For a 7 parent I mean, for different

for everyone, it's kind of harder. But I would imagine with 7, it's very

challenging for them to sit in that Mhmm. Place of discomfort.

Yeah. And they've spent a lifetime kind of avoiding that. Yeah.

Chasing fun. Yeah. A lot of great tools in their tool belt of how

to Make the sadness go away. Uh-huh. But, you know,

sadness and grief has a place and has a a goodness

and, You know, or even anger, fear, like, any of these things

are important to connect with. Alright, Sevens. Some

work for you. Alright. We've all got it. So we've got

our eights, which is the last part of the aggressive stance, and that's the

asserter or the challenger. And so you can

hear in those words, there's a strength. They value strength.

They're very justice minded. They tend to be more black and white.

And so eights, similar to sixes, are caring about

the protection of their children. But for eights, it's

like, I'm gonna fight and, like, be strong and

no one messes with my kids. You know? Like, every parent feels that on some

level. All but for 8s. They're really great

at supporting their kids, but again this is the independent this

independent view of like You're gonna be awesome.

Like, I have full confidence in you versus the Enneagram 2 we talk

about. No. You need me to be Awesome. I'm gonna micromanage and do all

these things for you so you can be awesome. So 8s are really good at

like, you got it. You're gonna be a rock star and I'll support

you. So they can be really intense, great visionaries

of what's possible. My husband's a enneagram 8. And when I wanted to

go to grad school, I was like, no. It's gonna be Too much of a

hassle. It's gonna take forever going part time. It's too expensive. We

can't afford it. And he's, like, we'll figure it out. It's like

there's no limits, like, let's think big and the

intensity of the 8, that can be hard with as a parent, that

intensity can feel like Anger or can just feel, like,

too big or too tense, and so it can alienate.

This group also Has can have trouble with feelings,

and so, aids, being more black and white, of course, you can do it. Like,

it's like just what you said, like, no. You know, brush the dust off your

feet. Go do it. And it's like, but I'm sad, but I'm

nervous. It's like, you can do it. Get out of it. Yeah. Yeah. So Mhmm.

Feelings are kind of Secondary. So for eights, they've gotta work a little

bit harder as parents to to slow down. Hey. How are

you feeling? It's like,

So that can be hard. I wonder if there's a fear

there that, like, people might use their feelings as an

excuse to then not not to push forward or achieve

or whatever. And it's, like, 378. Right? They

all kind of are focused on Achievement in some

way, like getting fun or getting things done or or reaching goals or whatever it

is. Feelings aren't necessarily gonna be an obstacle. Three

seven six. I don't wanna get stuck there, like, get stuck in the feeling, and,

like, now we're not gonna be able to do whatever. Yes. This

group is really future oriented, Forward motion, lots of energy,

and feelings kinda just slow all that down. It confuses

it. It's it's muddy. It's it's just yeah.

Their strengths are so strong

without having to add that in. Yeah. It takes work

To bring the balance. Yeah. It's so good. So the

withdrawn stance is the last one. That's fours, fives, and

nines. So our 4 is the

individualist or the creative. There's some different names for them.

The romantic. And their main identity is sort of

to be different and to be unique. So you can already see, like, we

talked about the 3, like, Successful looking,

seeing what people think about me, and the 4 is kind of,

like, rejecting all of that. It's like,

No. I'm gonna be different. I'm gonna be the one that's unique, that

that stands out separately. I'm not gonna go along with the status

quo. Four parents are so great at giving

the gift of creativity and imagination.

Fours are really concerned with, like, what does it all mean?

Like, life. Like, let's just sit and talk about and

in a contrast With sevens, fours are very

comfortable with grief, sadness, disappointment,

anger, like, Oh, yeah. Let's talk about it. You know,

they're not in a hurry to get out of it. Mhmm. And what

a gift Mhmm. That is to kids. Like,

So beautiful. And the willingness to be different,

like, oh, you wanna have that bizarre weirdo

career that you'll never Payton. Awesome. That sounds

amazing. You know? Versus like, no. We gotta

protect ourselves. Gonna make money? How where are you gonna

live? Like, you know, like, whatever. Figure it out,

man. It's cool. So that's beautiful.

But for fours, where that can get tricky is you might have a kid

that wants to fit in with the group, that wants to do

The status quo thing that wants to wear exactly what everybody else

is wearing. And and can I let them do that and

not Feel like they're not being true to

themselves or, you know, like putting my own projections on them because of

of the The binoculars that I'm seeing? Mhmm. For

parents also sometimes can overfocus on sad feelings.

Yeah. It's like, you know what? It is okay to to go get ice cream.

We talked about it. Let's go get ice cream, and that's okay. I'm not doing

a disservice. We're not supposed to stay in it for a

long period of time, especially little kids. Like, it's okay to

shift them. Yes. Yes. Exactly.

Tell us about fives. Yeah. So So fives are observer and our

investigator. So fours are super, super

heart, and fives are super, super head. So

if you think about if because in Enneagram work, we're like body, mind, and

heart. Those are kind of the 3 things we're always talking about.

So the 5 really they're what's driving them is a need

to understand. I don't wanna just know

About this, I wanna understand it. I wanna know the why, and so they

really pursued knowledge and understanding.

And it's like a thirst. It's just a drive. For 5 parents, they can

be so wise and have information

on All different subjects, just, you know, with a snap of a

finger. And the thing I love about 5 parents is fives

tend to be very unemotional. So when there's a problem, It's

very chill. It's just like, let's solve the problem.

There's very little drama. My dad's a 5,

and I know growing up, If I had a crisis, like, if I wrecked a

car or if I you know, whatever. It was like, I know I can call

my dad. Even if I'm getting punished for this thing or whatever

Whatever's gonna come later in the moment, it's like, okay. Let's

solve the problem. There's no emotion of, like, oh my god.

You know, all of that. So that's a gift that fives give, but where it

can be tricky is when they can kinda get bogged Down in

at that information and kind of over explaining and kind

of drowning on and on where their kids are just kind

of checking out. Mhmm. Or also not valuing

the emotions of their children Mhmm. And wanting to turn

everything into a practical scenario that can be problem solved. So

for all of our numbers, it's like what our gift is when it kinda

gets all distorted into our weakness. Yeah. I keep writing

my notes like Like, hyper order, hyper

helper, hyper cheerleader. Like, almost like the

phrasing of, These are our gifts, but when we go into, like, a hypervigilant

state or hyper fun or I keep you adding these little

titles. When we're in that state, what are we

not focusing on? Like, I sometimes call it, like, over

under parenting. Like, I overparent in this area and maybe underparent here.

And so, yeah, I can see that, like, we're just gonna focus on

the problem. We're gonna get it fixed. We're gonna order the new Boots, and we're

gonna get the right sizes and move on. And maybe there's some

emotions that came up or the child wants to process that they did wreck the

car or they lost Their wallet and they're sad about it, and maybe they

have a little shame about it, and they wanna work through, like, what's wrong with

me, and we wanna offer them some language of, like, Of course,

I admit you make mistakes. It's okay. There's no problem there. Yeah. It makes sense

you would feel sad. Like, giving that coaching,

but I could see that being really hard for 5 to even tap into.

And if we're not doing our own work, like, how are we gonna do that?

Yeah. If you have no idea what you're feeling, you're just like, let me get

the details. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think 5s are amazing in,

like Yeah. They are. If plane gets delayed or

canceled flight or whatever, and they're like You know, and they, like, get it all

together, and all of a sudden, you're on a new flight. It's all it's like,

that stuff is so amazing. Yes. Then when

everyone is sad that they're, like, have to go on their vacation 3 days from

now Mhmm. They just I noticed my 5 people, they're

just not present for that part. They're just a little bit like a 9, which

you'll talk about in a second. They're just, like, kind of, like, tired now.

They they're gonna go take a nap now. You know? They've They've gotta go start

dinner now, something like that. Right. Well, that was that's a good point

you brought that up because I in introducing the withdrawn

stance, what that means is they go inside

Mhmm. To get what they need. And so that doesn't mean they're all introverted or

antisocial or anything like that, but it's like, Okay.

There's a problem. I'm gonna go deal with it, and then it's dealt with.

Now I'm gonna go back inside. The fours have this rich

Internal feeling, and the nines have this rich internal mind. It's

like the inside is a safe place. Mhmm. And

so as parents, you might notice in your Kids, like,

the inside is so safe for them, and they need time. If something

happens, I don't wanna necessarily sit knee to knee with you and

be like, let's cry together over it. You know? It's like Yeah.

That that kid might need to just go in their room and just

Just ponder and think or go outside and just be by themselves

so they can work it out inside. And, some other numbers,

that's like, what the heck? So it's a it feels like you're not

doing your job or they're rejecting you or or, you know, you're not doing

it right. Fives are heart. Like, as a parent For fives, they tend to

have lower energy because they're they have a lot of internal

time. Mhmm. And it takes a lot for them to show up emotionally.

So if a five does that for you. Like,

that's beautiful, and they love you. But but don't

keep pushing. Okay. Let's talk about nines. I have

a 9. I know he's a 9 because he's 19 and he identifies as a

9. And I also have a 19 year old 9.

Yeah. Almost 20. Fascinating

to to raise a nines. So tell us about nines. Nines

are the mediator or the the peacemaker, and their identity

is I'm content. So it's this idea of, like, whether they're

actually content or not, but it's just They can give off

this vibe of peace, and they don't want anything to disturb

their equilibrium. And so that might be a deadline. That

might be someone who's hyper emotional. That might be someone who's trying

to micromanage them. Like, That is very,

very upsetting for nines. They wanna keep that peace. But nines

as parents, what is what is So awesome about my favorite thing about

nines, I'll say, is just their ability to be accepting

and nonjudgmental and so inclusive. It's such a

beautiful trait because they wherever their kids are coming from,

whatever they're dealing with, there's just a sense of like, okay, I see you

kid, you know, you're You're different or you you have,

you know, all these strange friends or a mix of friends, and it's just

it's awesome. I love that about nines. It's such a gift. And nines

are very good listeners without interrupting.

Some numbers really love to interrupt. This dependent stance is

Really struggles with interrupting, typically. Nines are really

good listeners, and so that can be great as parenting.

The struggle for nines is they can have trouble

advocating for themselves because they tend to be Just

very aware of everybody else's opinions and everyone else's needs.

And if theirs is really different, that disrupts that

equilibrium. So Getting a 9 to truly

express what what they want, truly,

no matter what, can be difficult. And so as a

parent, That's kind of modeling this sort

of don't really feel too strongly about anything because it might affect

somebody else, and That can be hard. The other thing for 9

parents is they can be overly withdrawn because,

like fives and fours, they kind of Need that time inside.

So that can be hard for 9 parents. And valuing that kind

of no I have no needs, That's tricky. That's

the the strength gone bad kind of thing. Although I noticed with my

9 people that It's like they won't necessarily

say what their needs are, but they will still do

what they want. Oh, yes. Like, it's not like

I, as a 2, just decide I have needs and they don't

matter, and I'll just go with whatever everybody else

needs. And I just stay you know, that's when I'm not feeling

healthy. But what I've noticed with my 9 people

is that they won't They just won't

go or, like, they'll still do whatever it is that they're gonna do, but they

won't tell you that they're Yes. Switching gears or So they're not

very accommodating, but they look like they are. Truly,

they're not. They're not. I don't know. That's what's so interesting about The

withdrawn stance 4 fives and nines. Uh-huh. Like the aggressive stance,

they're very independent. Mhmm. But they're nonaggressive.

Yeah. So that's a very quiet yeah. So

nines, a lot of times, you'll be talking to nines. It'll be like, uh-huh.

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. And you think they're agreeing with you

Yep. But they're not. They're just listening.

Mhmm. And then later, they do something different. You're like, but thought we talked about

it. It was like, well, I listened to your opinion. I don't know that you

ever asked for my opinion. Right. Right. Or I or I didn't wanna share it

because it would probably make Too complicated or too too much conflict

if I brought it up, so I didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Very No. Sort of

shockingly quiet independence and nines Because they are

so chill and kind and agreeable, I was

like, wait a minute, what's going on underneath there? So

For 9 parents learning, like, yes, that's such a gift,

but, like, how can I voice my own opinion? And that's

the work for How can I say this thing even though it might

disrupt? Well, I think it can be hard for 9 parents,

like, not wanting to disappoint their kids because they wanna keep

that mutual positive regard. They wanna keep that connection.

So saying no can feel like, I'm gonna hurt the

relationship, and it can feel hard. So if a kid's asking

for something and you have the will see or the I'm saying maybe because I

know you want me to say yes. As a parent, it's like, for

nines, it's like, ultimately, Lee, it's

it's okay. Like, having that definitiveness is

actually helping. Like, we were saying with the twos is you're helping, helping. Being

definitive helps your Kids know where they stand, what the

expectations are, what they can count on. And I'm sure as you

teach as a parenting coach, like, That's so important for our kids' sense of safety

and well-being. And and so for nines, that could be hard because the

maybe is like, Everyone's still possibly super happy,

you know. Mhmm. But, ultimately, they're not because they just never know

where they stand with you. Yeah. That's so interesting.

I noticed with my 1 9 mama friend that she

wouldn't tell her kids if we had plans, Like, if we were all gonna

go and she wouldn't tell them till, like, a minute or 2 before. Like, now

we're going to pizza with the Childresses or whatever, and they'd be like, yay.

And I I I was like, I don't Do that. I to tell them the

plan. And then if it doesn't happen, you know, I tell them it's not

happening. She's like, oh, no. I don't want them to, like,

I have a big upset. You know? Like, I I'd I'd rather

them not feel the excitement and then come down from that excitement.

Like, it's almost like the value is just let's keep it really in

the middle Absolutely. Yeah. And keep it really

manageable. Keep the emotions manageable, so we're not gonna go too high. We're not gonna

go too low. In some ways, almost like a 7 who

doesn't wanna have the big feelings. And it's like, How does

9 relate to emotion? Do they avoid it

or do they Well, this dance is called Doing

repressed. And so 1 group has

trouble so our dependent Thinking

productively each in different ways for each number, an aggressive stance

feeling, and with drawn stance is doing. Like,

getting it done. Yeah. Getting it done, seeing it through,

making the decision, finishing it. That's hard. And

so They're they're thinking and feeling. So nines tend to

either be some nines are more on the thinking side and can look kind of

five ish. Mhmm. And then some nines are more on the feeling

side. Mhmm. But doing can be their hard thing. So, like, with your friend,

it's like, I'm not gonna make any decisions or make any promises

that I'm gonna have to deal with later. But doing if I just leave the

doing to the last minute, there's no disruption.

Yeah. And so for nines, I mean, if you have a kid who's

a 4 or a 7, who's just like They are

in 8, like intense, like lots of emotions.

As a parent that can feel really threatening like, hey kid, you gotta chill the

heck down. Yeah. Because my binoculars are

being chill and peaceful is the most important thing. Jeez.

That's so hard for 9 parents to have any kid who's

not a 9, almost. It's a myth. I mean, it's A 2 a 2 would

be really helpful to a 9, probably, you know, like, that energy. But

It's interesting because twos and nines I actually I will I will out myself.

I'm also a 2. I test as a 9 really close. 2 and a

9. And I have a 9 son. Mhmm. And so

a dynamic with twos and nines is that micromanaging.

Because nines are so Kind of open hearted

and open, peaceful people so there can be they're like, sure.

I'll take the help. You know? Oh, yes. Yes. Oh my god.

That's so funny. Relationship is the two's overdoing and the nine's

under doing. Oh my god. That Cannot describe my relationship with

Lincoln better and how as he's in college now. But

just how much I've had to allow

For him I mean, for years now, learning to, like, let him

flounder, let him fail, not doing reminding, not

doing rescuing, it's been a big part of the journey Mhmm. For

me, but it is still such a challenge to

not Message him or remind him about

things. And he unlike my other son

who's like I know Enough. Like, don't

tell me. Down. Yeah. Like, I I you know, he almost feels, like,

insulted if I'm like Yes. So did you remember to do this? He

just gets very upset. But my other one's like almost

like, yeah. Thanks. Yeah. I'll go do that now. Good idea.

Right. Yeah. But then there's a dependence. Oh, no.

Mhmm. And then are my getting my pride out of that? You know, it's

like there's so many layers to look at. Oh, it's so great.

Well, TJ, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We went a little bit longer

than I thought, but I it was such a good conversation. I was like, we're

in it. We're going. Yeah. There's so Who wants to talk about? There's so we

could talk, like like, for 5 hours straight. I

mean, it's just so fascinating, all of it. I did

want to give you an opportunity to say your

warning about typing your kids, just Mhmm. How We listened

to this podcast episode. We talked a little bit about our

children's type, and, Yeah. Just speak to

that for a sec, please. Yeah. I think knowing yourself is the

top priority, and that will give you that compassion for your

kids. But you never wanna type anyone. You know,

your partner, your friends, your mother. Like, you might gain

some insights into, like, Oh, they're more fearful, or, oh, they're

super dominant, or, oh, they never express their opinion. But those

behaviors don't mean that that's who they are. Mhmm. And when

you do that, it it's harmful in a lot of ways. You're

telling somebody, oh, you're such a 7, and they're like, what are you talking about?

And they don't know the Enneagram, and now you have this secret insight on them

that they don't know themselves. Like, that feels really yucky. You know?

It's really a bad feeling. And also not to

rob your child of that journey of self

discovery. Mhmm. Yeah. I think that there are

some beautiful ways that we can as we learn about the

Enneagram, bring it into our families without saying you are a blank

Right. And you need this. It's more Curiosity, like, does

this Right? Does seeing it from this lens help you or

this lens? Yeah. Yeah. If you have a kid who's

needs to ask a bunch of questions before you go somewhere, like, well, who's gonna

be there? Is there gonna be dinner? Should I bring my bathing suit? Like, what

time are we gonna be back? And And some parents are just kind of

like, okay. Just trust me. Like, why are you asking me so many questions? Or,

like, why do you have to know? Why can't you just go with the flow?

Why can't you just be open? So that's one view

versus I don't I'm not saying this kid's a Enneagram six, but,

like, maybe to feel secure, They need

information, so maybe next time before we go somewhere, I'll be like, hey. We're

gonna you might wanna bring a book to read because we're gonna have

downtime, or you might wanna, you know, just I know that that with this

kid, they wanna know what's happening before. Mhmm. Mhmm. And so

the Enneagram just gives us, like, A framework to

understanding all those different viewpoints. And so I love that. Yeah. We're

not typing our kids, but we can use it as a curiosity

tool of like Mhmm. Oh, I wonder if they need more information and

if that would help them, or I wonder if they need to be told, I

see you. Thank you. You're really helpful or

you're right. You do know. You do see. You're right. Like, some

kids need to be told you're right. Like, I don't necessarily know

why, but if you kinda find these soothing phrases, it

can lower the nervous system, make that Body feel

safe and then can be kinda coached through

to maybe a different framework or different thought. So well, tell

everyone how to get in touch with you, because I'm sure everyone's like,

what? She does classes? What's happening? I wanna know. Yeah. Yeah.

I've got, I'm on Instagram, Growing with the Enneagram.

So great. You guys have to go yeah. Growing with the Enneagram is the

Yep. Handle. Yep. So I'm doing a

yoga and the Enneagram retreat in Pasadena

coming up, which, we did it back in the spring. I partner with my

friend as a yoga teacher, and we actually do it through the Enneagram stances.

So that's gonna be a Saturday morning coming up in November,

so That's really nice. The date because this will come out before that. So November

Yeah. November 4th in Pasadena, and, all the

details are on my, I, on my website, on my Instagram,

tjteams.com. We'll link that in the show notes.

Yeah. And yeah. So I do, private

coaching or custom small groups if you have a group of friends and

you wanna say, hey. Specifically, like, Let's do a 3 week

parenting class with my group of 6 friends or

whatever. I I loved I just love meeting people and working with people and

teaching. It's It's really fun. Oh, good. 1 on 1 coaching all as

well. Wonderful. Well, I'm so grateful for your time. Thank

you. Yeah. For all you mamas listening, I always give them a

little, like, thing to work on or take away. I just

I invite you to go to the Enneagram Institute and

take the test. It's $12 and find out a little bit more about yourself just

or just read about each number. Use this as a tool to get to

know yourselves. That's the invitation. So thanks for

listening, and I will talk to you next