252 - Stoicism and Radical Acceptance

[00:00:00] Misty: because

Cold Cut

[00:00:02] Misty: A lot of times what happens is we grow up in a certain way. With certain beliefs, and it's really hard to get yourself mentally out from under those, but it's totally worth it, ..., if anyone takes anything away from this, I really simply want to impart that you have a locus of control over your life,

[00:00:51] Damon: I'm Damon Davis, and today you'll meet Misty who lives outside of Metro New York City, raised in the mountains of the Midwest. [00:01:00] Misty endured neglect and abuse when she was a child. She took matters into her own hands, survived a period in foster care, then was adopted by her extended family. Misty, was forced

[00:01:12] Damon: To learn what life should be like, and today she uses lessons from her past to maintain stoicism to move forward in life.

[00:01:20] Damon: This is Misty's journey.

[00:01:24] Misty: Misty grew up in Evanston, Wyoming. she characterized her childhood as quote unquote, interesting saying there were some great parts and some not so great parts. Misty explains which portions of her life fell into each bucket.

some of the great things that I learned from my parental units were how to be self sustainable.

[00:01:47] Misty: At some point in time, we lived out in the mountains of Wyoming at about 10, 000 feet. Above sea level and we hunted, we grew most of our own food. We had [00:02:00] no electricity or running water. And it was really fancy camping and it really taught me how to be self sustainable and self reliant and something else that was very interesting about growing up out in the middle of nowhere was to be able to observe nature.

[00:02:22] Misty: There's a reason I'm saying this is because I believe that was what gave me enough presence of mind to change my situation.

[00:02:31] Damon: So this skill set of observation is something that comes into play for you at a later time in your life. That's fascinating. Yes. So you're 10, 000 feet above sea level in the mountains.

[00:02:47] Damon: That is not a typical childhood upbringing. Are I grew up in the suburbs, like I could walk down the street and knock on a couple of kids doors and I was immediately having a playdate. Tell me what your childhood was like in terms of [00:03:00] the classic things that we think of in childhood development versus what you had.

[00:03:04] Misty: Sure. So, our closest neighbor was my grandfather who lived. maybe about a half a mile away from us across the field. And for me, when I was growing up, really any contact that I had with other kids, there weren't really play dates. Maybe sometimes there were sleepovers, although I can't really recollect any right now.

[00:03:27] Misty: And for me, mostly what My extracurriculars were playing music or being in band. So when I was a kid, I was very interested in learning the piano and I only asked for one thing from my parents and they really didn't have the means to be able to provide that, but they provided me with an alternative.

[00:03:49] Misty: So I really wanted to take piano lessons and my mother gave me her saxophone. So I started playing in band and I started playing in [00:04:00] jazz band. And we traveled around and we won state competitions and that was pretty interesting. So I did get exposed. Interestingly, I got exposed to a lot of things, from

[00:04:11] Damon: that's really fascinating.

[00:04:12] Damon: And he was interesting. Tell me a little bit more about your day to day life, never having lived in the mountains or camped for any extended period. I'd love to hear a little bit more about what life was like. In the mountains in what seems like a solitary family structure. What does it look like?

[00:04:31] Damon: Sun up to sun down in terms of getting up, getting to school. And, you said no running water and, hunting and catching your own food. Tell me a little bit about what some of your days were like.

[00:04:40] Misty: Sure. So on a daily basis, we would get up and we would do chores and we had chickens and we had goats and a horse.

[00:04:49] Misty: Some geese. So we would get up and we'd take care of the animals and do our daily chores, our morning chores before going to school,

[00:04:58] Damon: which is really great. What kinds of things are [00:05:00] those? This is the animal care?

[00:05:02] Misty: Sure. So feeding the chickens, collecting eggs, milking the goats, feeding the horse, we had rabbits.

[00:05:09] Misty: We had a lot of different animals. So we would do that before we went to school. And then when we came home, we had evening chores too.

[00:05:17] Damon: So what kinds of things are those in the evening, then it's the

[00:05:21] Misty: same

[00:05:22] Damon: thing. You said there's no running water. So how are you collecting water and getting it back to the house for all of the things that you have to do to survive as a human, let alone for the animals?

[00:05:32] Misty: So we, we went to, we lived right by the Bear River. So we went to the river to collect water or we melted snow.

[00:05:40] Damon: Oh, really?

[00:05:41] Misty: Interesting. Wow. It's when you're up in that altitude, it's very cold and there's a lot of snow during the winter. So many times we would end up melting snow.

[00:05:52] Damon: Oh, that's really interesting.

[00:05:53] Damon: Wow. And so in your family, are you currently describing your biological [00:06:00] family that you grew up with or your adopted family?

[00:06:02] Misty: My biological family.

[00:06:04] Damon: That's what I thought. So As an adoptee, what happens with your family that puts you in a situation of ever being adopted?

[00:06:12] Misty: It was better not to be around my family.

[00:06:15] Misty: My family of origin.

[00:06:16] Damon: Gotcha. Better in what way?

[00:06:20] Misty: Well, I believe that they were doing the best that they could with what they knew, but they came from a very broken and dangerous place. So just to give you an example, almost everyone except for myself and my nephews and my family have either been in jail or prison.

[00:06:38] Damon: Wow. And what I'm hearing you say a little bit is their own upbringing was impactful on them as adults, which then had cascading effects on you as the child, the offspring from that prison. That their upbringing, right?

[00:06:55] Misty: Sure. It had cascading effects. Just to give you an example, my great grandfather [00:07:00] was in Alcatraz with Al Capone.

[00:07:03] Misty: So that, Really had a cascading effect in terms of, you do what you see. This is a real I don't know, many times I've asked myself this nature or nurture question, and I believe it's a little of both.

[00:07:17] Damon: What it, when you say the nurture piece in terms of, for lack of better words, the criminality or any of the bad influences.

[00:07:27] Damon: How do you think about that? Is because you didn't go into that. I'm, I guess I'm trying to figure out how it was that what you saw didn't poison you towards that same kind of behavior.

[00:07:39] Misty: Sure. And in all fairness. When I was younger, I could have gone that way and I chose not to. And the reason that I chose not to was because I just didn't want to be like that and I wanted something different for myself.

[00:07:53] Damon: So this was a piece of you inside. You saw what was happening, what the potential path [00:08:00] was. And you self selected out of it. Yes. Wow, that's really fascinating. Do you remember when you first felt this notion of, I, I don't think I want to be like that. What was it that triggered for you that you just said I just can't see myself doing those things?

[00:08:18] Misty: I don't know if it was, I can't see myself doing those things. It was the realization that wasn't how families work. really worked. It was only how some families worked, but a good family or kind and loving family. And it was a PSA on television when I was 10.

[00:08:35] Damon: Really? What did it say? What stuck out to you about it?

[00:08:39] Misty: It stuck out that what was going on at home was completely contradictory to what the PSA was about.

[00:08:46] Damon: And

[00:08:46] Misty: then I had the dawning realization that, Oh,

[00:08:48] Misty: This isn't right. And then I thought, well, I'm 10. What am I going to do? I'm 10.

[00:08:55] Damon: Yeah.

[00:08:55] Misty: How am I supposed to handle this?

[00:08:57] Damon: Right,

[00:08:58] Misty: right.

[00:08:59] Damon: So what [00:09:00] did you do then?

[00:09:00] Damon: What, yeah, what did you do? You're 10 years old. You've made this realization. You got a long way to go to be 18. How do you manage to keep your nose clean? Navigating

[00:09:13] Misty: the family dynamics as well as I possibly could. And there was a point in time when we were living out there in the middle of nowhere. Like I was saying, that was when I was 11.

[00:09:24] Misty: And it was when I was 11 that I had this dark night of the soul. And I realized that I needed to get out of that situation. And I realized that I had a couple of options and one was I could unalive myself, or the other was that I could find a way to get some help and strategize about how to get out of there.

[00:09:45] Misty: so interestingly, in this whole trajectory, My aunt who I never met has been very instrumental in my life choices. And that's a mystery, really what happened to her. She died when she was 15. Nobody [00:10:00] really has a clear understanding of why she died. And I thought about her when I was having this dark night of the soul.

[00:10:07] Misty: And I thought, you know, I love life too much to take this other option. So I, Figured out how to leave

[00:10:15] Damon: what did leaving look like

[00:10:17] Misty: well I had a friend whose name was Leona whose mother was the deputy sheriff and I told her mother what was going on and One day I never went home from school

[00:10:28] Damon: Really? Wow.

[00:10:30] Damon: So did you go to her house? And what age were you when this happened?

[00:10:34] Misty: So I was hanging out with her when Well, I was 11 at that point in time. I was hanging out with her at school and somehow I ended up at her house after school and her mother was there.

[00:10:45] Misty: I think I may have told Leona what was happening. And then she had me talk to her mom. That's a good question. That's pretty fuzzy on that one.

[00:10:54] Damon: Yeah. May I ask, you've been, Seemingly intentionally vague. Was [00:11:00] this physical and mental abuse?

[00:11:02] Misty: Yes. Physical, mental, and sexual abuse.

[00:11:05] Damon: Okay. I'm sorry for that. That's awful.

[00:11:08] Misty: Thank you. It's, you can't live in the past.

[00:11:10] Damon: No, you absolutely can't.

[00:11:12] Misty: But

[00:11:13] Damon: as you talk about it now, you can acknowledge that it happened and we shouldn't just blow past it. So.

[00:11:19] Misty: Oh, thank you. I've done a lot of work on myself to be able to get to the point that I can be so objective.

[00:11:25] Damon: Yeah, absolutely. And to be able to speak about it openly, for others to hear, you have to have done some work or at least be trying to do some work to get over some things. So. I'm really appreciative of you being here to do this.

[00:11:36] Misty: Sure. And I'm happy to do this because I feel like there's an important point to be made here, which is you don't have to be married to those circumstances because a lot of times what happens is we grow up in a certain way.

[00:11:49] Misty: With certain beliefs, and it's really hard to get yourself mentally out from under those, but it's totally worth it, and I really, [00:12:00] if anyone takes anything away from this, I really simply want to impart that you have a locus of control over your life, that's really the key, is understanding that you have A locus of control.

[00:12:14] Damon: I love that you put that message out there. That's super important. So you're, what was it? 11 years old. You're at Leona's home. You have spoken to her mom who was either a sheriff or a deputy. She was in the police force. What happens next?

[00:12:29] Misty: So one day I didn't go home from school and I went into the foster system.

[00:12:35] Damon: And how was that? You're safe, but you don't have your family and you're only 11. How, what do you recall how that was for you?

[00:12:42] Misty: Well, it was better than being at home. Certainly it, it was a really confusing time for me. And also talk about when what is it? When cultures collide, because how other families were operating were entirely not how my family was operating.

[00:12:59] Misty: So anyone who [00:13:00] took me on as a foster probably thought, what am I going to do with this kid? Because we, it just that whole family dynamic was the polar opposite of most of what the family dynamics were in my foster homes.

[00:13:17] Damon: Mm hmm. More healthy

[00:13:19] Damon: and therefore the trauma that you had lived through created, it sounds like for lack of better words, conflict, like it sounds like if they were more healthy and you had come from this unhealthy place with poor habits and learned bad behavior, that it was challenging. Is that what you're saying?

[00:13:36] Damon: You were a challenging child as a foster in these More healthy environments.

[00:13:40] Misty: Sure.

[00:13:41] Damon: Wow. It seems like that would be rough to think. Why can't I get along with these people?

[00:13:46] Misty: No, it didn't feel like that. I just. I feel that it was more of a situation where I already didn't feel like I fit in.

[00:13:54] Misty: So I wasn't really that surprised when I didn't fit in. And I wasn't really even [00:14:00] trying to fit in.

[00:14:01] Damon: Aah.

[00:14:01] Misty: I just didn't know how. I didn't, I had very little concept of how to fit into a healthy dynamic.

[00:14:08] Damon: Yeah.

[00:14:09] Misty: Also that

[00:14:10] Damon: four and 11, 12 year old, you don't know enough about the world to know where you do want to go.

[00:14:19] Damon: You only thing you probably know is not there. That's it.

[00:14:24] Misty: I came from a world where, right. And I had come from a world where. Naively, I had thought that's how everyone's family had worked until I saw that PSA.

[00:14:33] Misty: And then I'm hit with all of this new information. And do you talk about fish out of water?

[00:14:39] Damon: Yeah.

[00:14:40] Misty: I didn't know. I didn't know up from down.

[00:14:42] Damon: Yeah, but I'm gonna challenge you and anybody else who thinks about this way on the naivete piece. You only know what you know. You only know what you're taught, right? That if you, as a 10 or 11 year old, are brought into this world and are only taught the things in your little microcosm, in your home, in [00:15:00] your small community there in the mountains, how could you ever know that there was Another way of life that you and your family should aspire to.

[00:15:10] Damon: It's not even naivety. It's just literally, you don't know what you don't know. And that's because you weren't told

[00:15:16] Misty: to a high level. Yes.

[00:15:20] Damon: Yeah. And I mean, it's just an interesting, I always think about this when people take blame for stuff that they don't know. And I'm thinking to myself, how could you know this if you were never exposed?

[00:15:30] Damon: Right. It's like my son, he used to. Love, love math in school. And then he went, moved up a grade and he didn't know how to do the math in that grade. And I'm like, dude, you've never been in this grade before. You can't just, you're not born knowing it. You have to learn it. And this is an example of that is you learn the things you are exposed to and everything else you're just not.

[00:15:50] Misty: There's an additional level to that too, as I've matured, that I've come to understand very clearly, which is you have to go through a period of unlearning.

[00:15:59] Damon: That's [00:16:00] a great point. Yeah. Where you have presumably relied on Habits, lessons, what you've been exposed to, to continue to survive. And then you realize, wait, this isn't how everybody else does these things.

[00:16:15] Damon: I need to both unlearn what I've learned back at home and now start to learn the things that I'm being exposed to outside of my home. That's a fascinating point.

[00:16:25] Misty: And to take those things and to shift them was, I can hear some people who don't like the woo to alchemize them, to make that work to your advantage.

[00:16:36] Misty: But if you can alchemize these types of situations, and this is an incredible life skill, and that's something that I'm really grateful for in all of this situation is that it taught me how to alchemize bad moments. and turn them into something that I can make work for me as a lesson and it can move me forward.

[00:16:57] Damon: For anyone that doesn't know

[00:16:58] Misty: what you mean by alchemize, [00:17:00] can you describe that? Sure I saw a great analogy which is keep throwing stones, I'll keep building castles.

[00:17:06] Damon: Interesting. So taking would to other people be a bad situation and flipping it to turning it into a positive for yourself.

[00:17:17] Misty: And if you can take that situation and learn the lessons and you have to actually apply it, that's the thing is applied knowledge is power.

[00:17:26] Misty: So

[00:17:26] Misty: if you can take those moments and learn the lessons from them and really reflect on yourself and it's painful because a lot of times what happens and for most of us, I feel regardless of where you come from. Shame is the thing that a lot of us are carrying around, which is sometimes maybe you shouldn't feel ashamed.

[00:17:44] Misty: Okay. I can agree with that. And at the same time, when you feel shame to a point where you create your own glass ceiling, you can't get past because of that. Sometimes you've got to drop that shame and just accept. yourself and accept all of the [00:18:00] dark sides of you and the dark things that have happened to you and find where you can apply what you learned from those so that you can move yourself forward and in a different direction.

[00:18:11] Damon: Yeah, really fascinating. And I would imagine that some of it is both self reflective as well as how you show up in the world. Right. It's let me take what happened to me and make sure that I've turned what was I'll loosely call a weakness for lack of a better word into a strength. But then how do I also alchemize it, turn it into some energy that I can project out to the world and make sure that I'm a positive influence on others who either have been through a similar situation.

[00:18:43] Damon: Or are just in a position of self doubt or in a position of not recognizing that the weakness that they currently think they have could truly be turned into a strength. It doesn't have to be about growing up in abuse and neglect. It could just be about like, I'm afraid of public [00:19:00] speaking. You help the person recognize you don't have to be afraid of that.

[00:19:05] Damon: If you alchemize it into, I'm going to turn that into a strength of mine by practicing, by watching and observing others and seeing what their techniques are, et cetera, et cetera. But the idea of being synthesizing your strength that you've built. From turning stones into castles and helping other people to see that they too can build a castle for themselves

[00:19:27] Misty: And where you can lean into it, there's this great book by Ryan holiday called the obstacle is the way.

[00:19:33] Misty: And I find that is really a truism in life.

[00:19:37] Misty: And

[00:19:38] Misty: if you can lean into those things. Really own it. That's where you can, it's because you are able to take more responsibility and responsibility is power.

[00:19:49] Damon: In her early teenage years, Misty was navigating the foster system, unlearning, what she had been exposed to as family function, and trying to learn what society expected of her. [00:20:00] Had she been raised in a properly functioning family. At 13 years old, she was adopted by her younger brother's grandparents in Utah, making her a kinship, adoptee, being in a new home, in a new state, leaving a very liberal upbringing to be raised in a conservative environment, was jarring, but helped her find her way. I asked Misty what the transition into her little brother's grandparents' home was like.

[00:20:26] Misty: Ooh, culture shock. So I went from a very liberal to say the least family structure, and then somewhere in between or smattering some other things here and there into a very Mormon home. And it really was culture shock. And at the same time, I was so grateful for that because it really helped me to develop a moral compass.

[00:20:49] Misty: And I must say that any time in life that I've deviated from that moral compass, I shoot myself in the foot. So I had decided that sticking on the moral compass.

[00:20:59] Damon: Yeah. [00:21:00] It's funny how that happens, that moral compass.

[00:21:01] Damon: You're off course and you go, damn, how did I get over here?

[00:21:04] Damon: Yeah.

[00:21:06] Misty: That one little micro decision.

[00:21:08] Damon: Yeah, that's the truth. So what was life like in their family then?

[00:21:12] Misty: Well, I was really grateful for, my adopted father was really great. He was pretty much like Job. That's someone I would imagine. And he really was a good person. they have both passed away and I'm really grateful that they adopted me.

[00:21:28] Misty: It was not easy. His wife was not an easy person and I sometimes didn't know really how he did it, but I still feel that. Again, the value of understanding how to change things for good and take the lesson and you know how you're talking about unlearning that unlearning has took me decades.

[00:21:51] Misty: It wasn't just a couple of years wasn't until I got into my mid forties that I really started to. Feel the effects of the [00:22:00] unlearning

[00:22:00] Damon: really. That is fascinating. We'll get to that in a while, but tell me what life was like with your adoptive family. You said that your, we'll call her. Your adoptive mother was difficult, at least for him.

[00:22:15] Damon: Tell me what your relationship was like with him and with her.

[00:22:18] Misty: Sure. So with my adopted father, I feel that we had a pretty open relationship in terms of, Being able to communicate well, and also he really just said it like it was, which I appreciated.

[00:22:31] Misty: And with her, it was a little challenging because that person just I'm not entirely sure what her, where her intentions lied. And many times he would say, Oh, I'm still with her because she has a heart of gold. Okay. So it, I lived there until I was 17 and then I moved out on my own. So I wasn't there too long.

[00:22:54] Misty: So I basically was there during high school.

[00:22:57] Damon: Okay.

[00:22:58] Misty: But I was really [00:23:00] grateful that they had adopted me, especially under the circumstances that they had adopted me. And again, anyone who's taking on Who's going to adopt a child who's from a challenging home, maybe they thought, Oh, what did we get ourselves into also, so I feel that they did the best they could with what they had.

[00:23:19] Damon: Yeah,

[00:23:20] Misty: we all

[00:23:20] Damon: did that because that was our family's experience. We adopted my niece and nephew from a wife's side of the family and they have their own challenges growing up and. There are definitely moments when you think to yourself, wow, what did we get ourselves into? But it's not a giving up. It's just a, like a stark realization.

[00:23:38] Damon: Like this is as challenging as we thought it was going to be. And and I love hearing you say that you were, grateful for them extending their home to you. That's, it's really cool to hear. Cause it sounds like it was a, while it was a stark cultural difference from what you had been raised in.

[00:23:57] Damon: It sounds like it was a solid foundation. [00:24:00] Were there other kids in the home with you?

[00:24:03] Misty: No. And I must say, that was a brave move on their part.

[00:24:07] Damon: Sure. Yeah.

[00:24:08] Misty: There were, there, so my adopted father's children were much older than me. In fact, so, my now adopted brother is my biological brother's father trying to figure that one out on the family tree.

[00:24:23] Damon: Is your biological brother's father? Yes.

[00:24:28] Misty: It's okay. You're your brother.

[00:24:30] Damon: Woo, that's a rough one. Very interesting. So you said you how was school for you at 17? You're in a new community, you're in a new family. You've had a lot of change and a lot of challenge.

[00:24:41] Damon: How was school being this new kid? High school is a tough time too.

[00:24:45] Misty: It was. And at the same time, I felt like I navigated it pretty well and I was having a tough time at home. And then I had this great teacher who said, why don't you throw yourself into your studies?

[00:24:56] Damon: Ding,

[00:24:56] Misty: Ding winner, chicken dinner.

[00:24:58] Misty: That was really a [00:25:00] great suggestion. And it really helped me to focus myself on where I was going as opposed to what was going on around me. And high school was very interesting. I went to ski high school and people tell me that it's important where you went to high school everywhere. For some reason in Utah, it's very important where you went to high school and I went to school with some very affluent well, children whose parents were very affluent.

[00:25:27] Damon: Yeah. They all, they say you're, circle of friends really determines who you are like a five closest people to you. That basically is a summation of who you are, right? If you hang out with a bunch of bums, you're probably the fifth one, right? But if you're surrounded by the children of wealthy people, you're going to get naturally exposed to things that you just wouldn't get exposed to with children of another socioeconomic strata.

[00:25:52] Damon: So that's really fascinating. What did that do for you then?

[00:25:56] Misty: It gave me a different curiosity, and I must say I was a [00:26:00] loner. Truthfully, I'm still a loner. But it gave me a different perspective of possibilities.

[00:26:05] Misty: Well, that people lived in a different way that you could be affluent. That you had more possibilities open to you than the things I had previously seen or even maybe imagined.

[00:26:20] Damon: Yeah, that's a really important thing for kids is that exposure, right? It's the kind of thing That, when you've got children who are not exposed to say, the sciences and STEM, they don't think to themselves, I could end up being a scientist, I could end up being someone who, travels to space or what have you, the same way that You know the breaking of the mold of the presidential structure in this country, right?

[00:26:47] Damon: Like for the longest time, it was old white guys until it wasn't people who are not old white guys, one going to be old white guys. One day can think to themselves, damn, I could be president one day. You know what I mean? Like just the changing of the [00:27:00] exposure to what the norm is. opens your mind to a whole new set of possibilities that, really gives people imagination for what's possible.

[00:27:08] Damon: That's really cool to hear you got that too.

[00:27:10] Misty: And it also, yes, it really is. Thanks for sharing that. And also it helps you to understand that you are possible.

[00:27:18] Damon: I love that. Say more about that. What does that mean that you are possible? Cause it sounds like you're saying at one point you didn't think you were possible.

[00:27:25] Misty: Gee, I thought I would end up truthfully when I was younger, I thought I would end up dead. Not by

[00:27:30] Damon: your own doing.

[00:27:31] Misty: Either by my own doing or By other doings

[00:27:36] Damon: you just felt like it was inevitable.

[00:27:37] Misty: I really did. So back to what you're saying about possibilities for yourself. Is that what you're, would you mind repeating the question?

[00:27:45] Damon: Yeah. I was just wondering, you said that part of the epiphany for you was recognizing that you are possible, that there wasn't this inevitability. I was wondering if you could just say a little bit more about thinking that you were, That you perhaps were not [00:28:00] possible. And you've elaborated on that already, but go ahead.

[00:28:02] Damon: Else comes to mind.

[00:28:03] Misty: Well, really, I'd love to talk about understanding that I am possible. What I thought was the most beautiful thing is I started studying the things that I really was interested in languages. music, art, dance, science, different things that I really got an opportunity to educate myself and to really work on becoming the kind of person that I personally wanted to be.

[00:28:30] Damon: You created your own vision of yourself. Interesting.

[00:28:33] Misty: That's what I was saying in the beginning about locus of control.

[00:28:37] Damon: Yeah.

[00:28:38] Misty: You don't have to buy into this idea or identity that you were given by your family of origin especially in my case, you really have an opportunity in life if you're willing to do the work and it's a lot of work and sometimes it's extremely painful.

[00:28:55] Misty: And at the same time. It's a hundred percent worth it.

[00:28:59] Damon: I agree. It's [00:29:00] a, this is a challenge that I think many people have is not recognizing the work it takes to get the results you want. And this is true physically, mentally in your heart, right? Healing. Whatever it is, wealth building. I mean, you could just go on and on that.

[00:29:20] Damon: None of this stuff just comes to us. You're not born with it. You got to work at it, right? The there's not a single person out there who has been sustainably successful in any endeavor that doesn't work on it. They may make it look super easy. Because they've been working on it for so long. Yeah, we don't doing the work that it was not easy.

[00:29:44] Damon: And this is this, I make a joke about this. My wife is in the music industry and there's this thing where we frequently say, Hey, did you hear that new artist on the radio? That's not a new artist. That person has been grinding in bars and at [00:30:00] parties and doing this thing for 10 years before you ever heard of them.

[00:30:04] Damon: So it's not luck. It's not, they're not new. They've been doing the work. And this is the thing that you're talking about is you've done the work for a sustained period to get to this place of feeling anywhere near healed, recovered,

[00:30:19] Misty: a hundred percent. And I still have more work to do. And I'm still working on developing better discipline.

[00:30:24] Misty: I just keep working on it a little bit every day.

[00:30:26] Damon: Misty said that even though she was a kinship adoptee, she barely had any contact with her family of origin. she didn't speak to her brother until she was 24 and he was 21. Misty didn't speak with her mother at all and has had limited contact with the woman since she had separated herself from her family and maintained her distance both to protect herself.

[00:30:49] Damon: And because of the protective barrier established by her adoptive parents, I asked Misty to describe the limited interaction she did have with her first family.

[00:30:59] Misty: [00:31:00] Well, my mother used to send gifts and packages up to a certain point. And then once I graduated high school, I really didn't reach out to her at all.

[00:31:10] Misty: And I wasn't really reaching out to her then either.

[00:31:13] Damon: What was it like to get packages from her?

[00:31:15] Misty: On one hand, I appreciated it because my mother is really great at crafting and making things. And sometimes she would make some incredible things. So I really appreciated the effort that she put into it.

[00:31:28] Damon: What's incredible. What could she do? That was incredible to me.

[00:31:31] Misty: So here's one, one thing that was really amazing. So she had made these doll lamps and It was a doll with a very extravagant outfit and there, I don't know, maybe the doll was about 18 inches high with. It's really fancy hairdo and this incredible outfit, which I know she made and she probably curled the doll's hair, too.

[00:31:54] Misty: So. My mother is very good. She's an incredible gardener. I have her to [00:32:00] thank along with my great grandmother for teaching me about plants. It's in my DNA. And I have her to thank for getting interested in cooking and I have her to thank for being interested in growing my own food.

[00:32:14] Misty: And I have that situation to thank for me, if it's, if there's no electricity or running water, I'm fine. I hope it doesn't come to that.

[00:32:24] Damon: But that's really interesting that your roots come to bear in situations of dire need, right? That's really fascinating.

[00:32:31] Misty: And it made me mentally strong. Once I was able to get on the other side of All of this.

[00:32:37] Misty: So I do have my mother to thank for a lot of the good things that I am able to participate in life, so that was what it was like to get packages from her. I did appreciate the effort that she put into things.

[00:32:49] Damon: at almost 18 years old, Misty left home finding her way through life between different interests and relationships. She wanted to explore Mexican ruins, so [00:33:00] she spent time in Mexico City learning Spanish and moving in with a boyfriend and his family down there.

[00:33:06] Damon: She said it was a great time in her life. Later she returned to Utah, lived in a few different places. Then she got married at the age of 19 with all of this travel, learning other cultures and exploring her world independently. I was curious if Misty ever attempted to reconnect with her family of origin.

[00:33:27] Damon: She said it wasn't until more recently, within the last 10 years She has been back to Wyoming to visit her mother. Misty had been living in New York. When she made the journey back to her past life, she said her mother was living in the same home, but in a different location in her same town.

[00:33:44] Damon: I assumed that revisiting the old house would be a tough reference into old memories. Misty said.

[00:33:52] Misty: It was very interesting because after living in the New York city metro area, I was finding it very refreshing that [00:34:00] no one asked me what I did.

[00:34:01] Misty: really liked the fact that people were more simple. I thought that was very interesting. It was a little strange and I found myself having to have boundaries. And I also found that I was surprisingly stoic. Yes.

[00:34:16] Damon: It wasn't nearly as impactful as one might've thought it would be for you to return to that zone.

[00:34:22] Misty: Well, at the behest of a good friend of mine who suggested that I speak with my mother about things that had gone on at home before going to visit her so that we didn't spend the entire time talking about that.

[00:34:33] Damon: Yeah.

[00:34:34] Misty: I did do that. So it was much more comfortable.

[00:34:37] Damon: How did you even, was it challenging to bring this up or how did it go for you to revisit this with your mother after not talking to her much and wanting to go back?

[00:34:47] Misty: retrospect, it was an escalator to nowhere. I'll let you fill in the blanks on all of that. If

[00:34:54] Damon: I were to fill in the blanks, I would say that you are saying that while you tried to [00:35:00] confront and address the things that had happened in the past. I'm going to guess that she was not willing to admit that they happened and doesn't sound like she was apologetic about it either.

[00:35:12] Misty: Briefly admitted it and then immediately denied it or denied that she said that and it's not really, that person's just not really in a place to Be accountable.

[00:35:23] Damon: So

[00:35:23] Misty: I don't expect that.

[00:35:25] Damon: Yeah. I

[00:35:25] Misty: understand. You have to meet people where they're at or just don't meet them.

[00:35:29] Damon: So after this escalator to nowhere, you were still able to gather yourself and go back there and just say, screw it.

[00:35:35] Damon: It's not going to, we're not going to get over this. Like, I'm not going to get the open apology that I would like. And she's still my mom. Is that kind of how it was?

[00:35:44] Misty: Radical acceptance.

[00:35:45] Damon: Yes. Yeah. Radical acceptance. Wow. Wow. So how was the visit then?

[00:35:50] Misty: Actually, it was short, which was good. And, We had this really great moment where we went to, there's this [00:36:00] incredible lake called mirror lake that was maybe, I don't know, maybe about 30 miles from where I grew up, where I was telling you that area.

[00:36:09] Misty: When we were living out there with no running water or electricity, and that place is beautiful and really I had just suggested to her that, hey, you know, I came to spend some time with you and go and do some fun things together. So, why don't we go do this? And that's what we did. So, turned out.

[00:36:28] Misty: Okay.

[00:36:29] Damon: That's really good. It's good you went and did that. Sometimes you have to check the box on some of those things, right? You go there, you do it, you see how it could be, and if it's not really giving you anything, it's a short trip and you're out of there. How was it when she came to see you?

[00:36:42] Misty: Quite a different story.

[00:36:44] Damon: Yeah, because now this person is

[00:36:45] Misty: in your world. And then that's so I don't think it was very easy for her. And I was surprised that I stayed as stoic as I did. And I had to set some [00:37:00] boundaries and that was basically after that, we didn't really speak anymore.

[00:37:06] Damon: When you say it was not easy for her, what does that mean?

[00:37:10] Misty: Well, I'll just put it this way. If someone is acting up in my house. then this is my house and my rules. And we don't act like that in my house. And I have to tell you that it's not going to set the tone very well for you.

[00:37:24] Damon: Wow. It's an interesting choice of words for an adult.

[00:37:28] Misty: Sometimes, you know how it is. Sometimes you find that the roles are switched and you become the adult.

[00:37:34] Damon: 100%. Yeah. That's really fascinating. And so it sounds like you went. visit her with the intention of you all doing some things like you had the conversation before.

[00:37:45] Misty: You went

[00:37:46] Damon: to her community, you went to Mirror Lake, like you said, let's just put the past behind us and enjoy the time that we are here in this moment. How was it there for her in your world? Were you able to do any of the same kind of, [00:38:00] let's relax, but it sounds like you, in terms of setting boundaries, there was some issues too.

[00:38:04] Damon: How, what was it like?

[00:38:05] Misty: It was a mixture of both. And we did go do some things and one of the things my mother is. agoraphobic. So for her coming to New York city metro area, you can only imagine how she must have felt. And it is a place where people are pretty aggressive by nature because you have to be able to survive here.

[00:38:28] Misty: And I really had, we did have a moment where we were walking along Central Park and I had told her, if you give people good energy, they'll give it back to you. And for one of the first times that I saw while she was here visiting, she actually smiled. So that was good. That was a good moment. So she

[00:38:48] Damon: wouldn't normally smile, huh?

[00:38:50] Misty: Not that I remember. I truly don't remember.

[00:38:53] Damon: Yeah. Really interesting. Really interesting, huh? So where do things stand with you and your various families [00:39:00] now?

[00:39:00] Misty: Well, my adopted parents have passed away and I still speak, I have a relationship with my brother and I feel like even though we don't speak that often, we do have a good relationship.

[00:39:10] Damon: That's great. May I ask, speaking of relationships, and I don't know much about this, so I'm going to rely on you. But one of the things that I've heard is that both adoptees. And folks who have been traumatized by abuse can have challenges in relationships. Have you found that to be true for yourself in any way?

[00:39:33] Misty: Yes.

[00:39:34] Damon: Tell me more about

[00:39:35] Misty: that. Sure. So, the lesson is the familiar can kill you. And it took me until I was in my a little bit beyond my mid forties to finally be in a place where I was getting it together. I recognized that I was trying to fix some things from the past through some of the relationships that I was in.

[00:39:56] Misty: And it was pretty much across the spectrum, clients [00:40:00] romantic relationships, friendships, relationships. I saw little spots here and there of all of those things. And in some ways I didn't care for some of relations, some of the relationships that I really should have when I was younger, because it didn't know what I didn't know.

[00:40:15] Misty: And I definitely could have done better for sure and really recognized what I had. But I really think the thing is that

[00:40:24] Misty: when you recognize why, what you're doing and why you're doing it. That's the moment because that thing of repeating what you know is really deeply embedded in your subconscious and it takes a lot of unlearning to kick that stuff out.

[00:40:41] Damon: Yeah.

[00:40:42] Misty: I had read that psychologically, 95 percent of what's running the show is your subconscious.

[00:40:49] Misty: So when you have that stuff stuck in your mind, it will, you'll see little bits and pieces of it pop up. And it's very, it's like I was saying, it's very important to [00:41:00] be able to unlearn those things and you can.

[00:41:03] Damon: Yeah. as you were speaking, I was reflecting on my conversation with Dr. Bruce D.

[00:41:07] Damon: Perry, and he was talking about this very thing that you are, your brain absorbs everything it is given. At those early formative stages. And when those early formative stages are shaped by trauma that you've described, that's going to be in the core, right? That's going to be in the deep memory banks way back in the mainframe, right?

[00:41:33] Damon: That's the base layer of the coding that you have to, as you said, reprogram over time and it's an ongoing process. It's really fascinating to hear that. What would it look like? I think what I detected from you was you. undernurtured, what could be healthy relationships. Were you also over nurturing unhealthy ones too?

[00:41:55] Damon: Yes,

[00:41:56] Misty: I was.

[00:41:57] Damon: And this is both professionally and romantic. [00:42:00] It sounds like

[00:42:00] Misty: it was mostly romantic because the people that I was closest to were those people in the romantic realm. So. I I've spent a lot of time alone now because I really am in a place in life where I want to meet someone who is on the same page with me and is also.

[00:42:20] Misty: healthy.

[00:42:21] Damon: And it can be hard to figure out who has done the work that you've done.

[00:42:25] Misty: You can see it though. And the interesting thing is when you start doing the work, you can also see who hasn't. And there's something that's really important here that I want to bring up that is very uncomfortable, which is when you get in touch with your dark side and you really embrace it.

[00:42:41] Misty: And dare I say, put some love on it, which is really hard. And when you grow up in a similar situation, like I did, that dark side is formidable. And learning to love that aspect of yourself, the interesting and most key component of being able to do [00:43:00] that is that gives you insight into other people.

[00:43:03] Misty: If you want to be able to read people really fast, Get in touch with and embrace your dark side. It sounds very counterintuitive. I know

[00:43:12] Damon: it's really a truth. It's really interesting. Can you say a little bit more about this piece about understanding your dark side and under, in order to understand others?

[00:43:21] Damon: How do you mean that? Like, because you recognize what the dark side looks like inside of yourself, you're able to recognize the light in others as well as what, Their dark side is that they haven't potentially addressed. I'd say a little bit more about that.

[00:43:37] Misty: Sure. It's exactly what you said. You're able to, you're able to see things in others that other people don't see when you're really able to embrace that dark side.

[00:43:47] Misty: And the thing is not remember what we were saying about shame earlier, because there's a lot of shame involved in that. And it's then there's also a tremendous amount of accountability. And the interesting [00:44:00] thing is when you're able to do that dark side doesn't pop up anymore because it's like the same thing.

[00:44:04] Misty: So if you're trying to suppress something and you're trying to suppress something, pops out in the, Most unexpected area. And accepting that about those things about yourself. And like I said, it's one of the hardest life exercises I have done, which is loving that aspect of yourself. It really, it becomes your ally and it stops being your enemy.

[00:44:28] Damon: Yeah. You saw me smile there for a moment while you were speaking about this dark side, because it hit me that what you're saying is.

[00:44:37] Damon: You're actually able to appreciate someone's light because you recognize your own darkness. Like you can see the contrast. That's really fascinating. I have to think about that more, but that is it. That is. I could see that being absolutely true. And I guess to further that you were saying that it's you didn't say embarrassing.

[00:44:58] Damon: You said what was the word you use? [00:45:00] Like humiliate, there was a word that suggested, that it doesn't feel good on the inside. What did you say?

[00:45:05] Misty: That it's shame inducing.

[00:45:07] Damon: Shame. And that, that was the reason I smiled because you were saying, you That by recognizing my dark, I can see your light, but my dark comes from a truly dark traumatic place.

[00:45:19] Damon: That's a shameful place. So I'm seeing your light because of the shame of my past. It was just an interesting triangulation of those components of what you were saying. It was really That's deep.

[00:45:30] Misty: Oh, thank you. It will really give you insight into humanity, but on both the dark and the light, but it will really help you to be able to identify the dark very quickly.

[00:45:42] Damon: Yeah, I can imagine. It helps you

[00:45:44] Misty: to just see right through people.

[00:45:46] Damon: Earlier Misty said that because of her upbringing, She has a more acute awareness of nature. She told me, Albert Einstein said that if you want to understand systems of anything, one should observe nature. Misty [00:46:00] alluded to her childhood growing up in the mountains and her connection to nature on a large and small scale.

[00:46:06] Damon: as core to her powers of observation and her sense of awe as an adult. I was curious how that aspect of her younger life plays out in metro New York, where she lives today.

[00:46:17] Damon: Can

[00:46:17] Damon: be something as simple as walking down the street and seeing a tree with its leaves changing. It can be observing something flying around recently. It's been in my garden in the back where I've let all of these wild native plants go wild and seeing the grand central station of flying things going on back there.

[00:46:40] Damon: Yeah.

[00:46:41] Misty: You know what? The thing is, it really puts you in touch with beauty. And we can all use some more beauty. And that's something I feel is beautiful about humanity is that we all have an appreciation of beauty.

[00:46:53] Damon: that's really cool, Misty. I love it. This was really great. I appreciate you opening up about the [00:47:00] challenges of your childhood, but it's pretty clear the growth that you've had since that time. I mean, absolutely amazing. I love the fact that as a young person, You saw something, even though it was on TV, that clued you in.

[00:47:17] Damon: I'm not in the right place. This is not the right space. Things are not going the way they should be going. And when I get my chance, I'm going to make something happen and make a change. And that speaks to an inner strength and awareness, even for a 10 year old, that a lot of kids, they don't have. And it's really admirable because you've reached an older age.

[00:47:39] Damon: From a time when you didn't even think you were possible.

[00:47:43] Misty: I feel like I've lived a few lifetimes.

[00:47:45] Damon: Yeah.

[00:47:46] Misty: That awareness came from observing nature, though.

[00:47:48] Damon: That's incredible.

[00:47:49] Misty: That was a big part of it. Observing the large and small of nature.

[00:47:55] Damon: Well, I'm so glad you're here to do it. I'm so glad you were here today to share it.

[00:47:59] Damon: So, Misty. [00:48:00] Thank you.

[00:48:00] Misty: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to share the story.

[00:48:03] Damon: Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for being here. This was really cool.

Closing

[00:48:12] Damon: Misty's childhood was marked by abuse and neglect, but she recognized that even though she was living way out in the mountains, another life was possible. I really appreciated Misty's recognition of her own unlearning and relearning of what life has to offer.

[00:48:29] Damon: What was expected of her and her adoptive parents sacrifices to do the best they could to finish raising her Misty practices stoicism a form of cognitive behavioral therapy, a means of coping with the past, Given her early assumptions that she might not be here to tell her story one day. I'm glad Misty learned that she is possible, and I hope you know that you are possible too. I'm Damon Davis and I hope you found something in Misty's journey that [00:49:00] inspired you, validates your feelings about wanting to search or motivates you.

[00:49:05] Damon: To have the strength along your journey to learn who am I really?