Welcome to What's your Next podcast.

Hi. Thank you

I am so excited to chat with you. I was always telling you before we hit record, that we have similar book tastes, and I am so excited to chat because we're just gonna have fun. We're gonna talk about Spicy Romans and starting with your book. So first things first, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Yeah, so my name's Elise Murray. I am a romance writer from New Orleans. I write for film and television. You might have seen my stuff on Hallmark and Lifetime and passion flicks to name a few. And I just wrote and directed a short film call Beware Cock Blocking Ghost for Netflix's Inevitable visionary Fellowship. So our Julia Lester. So if there are any. High school, the musical and musical of series fans out there. She is our scar. And and I've written small town, kind of cozy romances for a long time. And then I briefly worked as a sex toy reviewer and my world kind of exploded and I decided that it was time to let like my horny freak flag fly

Have to tell you in the sex tour review back in the 2010s early Girl Boss era, I decided to sell sex toys and I joined an MLM. Very sketchy. We know the MLMs are sketchy and scams. We know that. I do not know that I was into scam. I now consume a lot of N-T-M-L-M content. But I was in a sex toy, MLM, so I had to do parties and talk about the sex stories and sell them so that I could recruit other people and do the certain things. It lasted for a month, but it was, I have to say there was a thriving world sex toys in the MLM world,

absolutely. Absolutely. I had my aunt a gradient used to be like when Sex to M LMS were first starting, her friend founded one. She was like the basically the one woman help desk. So people would call and be like, I got this toy stuff here. And she's go to the doctor. Like she was like the troubleshooter for the sex toy company, which I always think would be such a fun drug. She loved it when she got to do it. So yeah, we have

Sex toy Pass. But you wrote a book about sex toy engineering. So we gotta talk about a little bit buzz. First things first. The premise. We got a virgin, wants to get rid of virginity, works in the sex toy industry and has someone who's gonna teach her lessons this seduction. And then they realized, oh my gosh. We do it once. Maybe some other time, more times. So what is happening we got the sex lessons, which we love to see. Talk to us about the premise of the book and incorporating the sex toy because you kind of have to do research, you have to understand like the engineer, 'cause it has changed dramatically over the past, like 10 years since I was selling MLM sex toys. We have moved beyond the rabbit and moved to other areas.

Yes. So it really is so interesting. So I love this book especially because, I think we get sex lessons or like dating lessons. It's a kind of a common trope. It's one of my favorite tropes in romance. But you typically see it as very male teacher energy and like female ready to learn and receive in more ways than one. And I wanted to know what does that look like if it's more mutual? Our heroine has never had sex before, but she knows so much about pleasure and she knows so much about sex toys and she knows so much about the industry. And so the guy she's hooking up with Hudson is new in her office and he's like a temp who's building an app for the toy that she's building. He's look I'll have sex with you. That sounds great. I'm in, but I don't know a lot about sex toys. So you could teach me about sex toys and I'll teach you about sex. And so we have this really fun, kind of mutual interplay of these two people who are very well versed in their own kind of sex avenues and then get to teach each other and kind of, we get the synthesis of the two, which is really fun. And to your point about, the industry changing. It is now a very I wanna say female forward, but I don't think that's actually really what I need to say. I think it's more egalitarian the whole industry. It really is focused on everyone's pleasure and is everybody having a good time, no matter how you identify or what parts you have or what kind of orgasms you prefer. I think it's an industry that is extremely open-minded about

yeah.

you and your partner pleasure or partners of whatever the case may be. And I think that's a really fun starting point for a romance is like, what does a romance novel that has, 19 spicy chapters look like if everyone's having a good time all the time and like how many ways can I make them have fun and have a good time

Yeah.

developing their character? So yeah, it's a blast and it really is fun to look at an industry. My agent really early in the process said, I want this to be for sex toys. What Emily Henry's book is to romance novels, right? I want this to be kind of the ultimate defense of sex toys in and out of the bedroom, in and out of partnerships solo and with a partner. And I was like, you're right. I really have that opportunity. And so I. I tried to grab it with two hands

yeah,

it work, and I think I did. I think we at least had a good time,

well I think it did. I think your book actually did. And I remember my first interaction, sex choice was Sex in the City when Charlotte gets rabbit and she becomes addicted to the rabbit and then whole thing about it. And I was like, I was 18, 19 and this is the odds, the early odds, like you, like not the internet was not the internet that we have now.

You can't just like discreetly order one from Amazon.

You gotta go to babe, you gotta babeland in New York. Like it was like this place and you just have to out, or the sex store in like random, sketchy town by the strip club where the porn was saw. So it was just like an interesting and dynamic to see. Now we have influencer selling the boa, sex toy. They'll give the way, like they're like it's a free gift. You get a. Sex toy, and then you sign up for all these different things. So it has moved from taboo to now you can order discretely now. You don't have to go to a store, you don't need to see someone. You can order beyond the massages. Like you can actually have like actually pleasure and you can, and different types of pleasure. And you can have noise. You don't have noise, you have like vibrations. You don't have any specific, like all these different things. And now there's apps along with it. It has come a long way.

Exactly. This is the future. We're living in the sex toy future.

I love that it's sex positive in a way that looks at the virgin trope, not as a place where there's something wrong with it. There's nothing. It's just a choice. And yes, there was a bad breakup, but at the same time, it's not looking at this because the old school virgin trope meant that she was pure and she was waiting for the right moment and the right orgasm was gonna happen where she was like, hey. This is just what it is, and I still have orgasms. This is not the first orgasm. The men did not fix me to have an orgasm.

Right, exactly. And that was something I really wanted to make sure I

Yeah. Yep.

away from I wanted to make sure that especially 'cause she does work in the sex twin industry, like obviously she has to have and look, I was single. I didn't have sex until much later in life. I was single most of my life.

Yeah.

had colonial orgasms, all right?

Yeah.

was keeping me from that just because I wasn't with a partner. And so I wanted to be realistic about it. Okay, this is 2026. If a person is a virgin, like not gonna be totally unfamiliar with the concept of sex, and they're gonna know what they like and they're just gonna need a partner to figure out what it's like when you introduce another human being to the equation. I think that it's really fun for a scout who's quite like a loner, and she's isolated by choice. She keeps her distance from people and once she starts to open herself up to physical connection with another person, also helps develop her character in all these other ways. It's not oh, a man came in and fixed me. It's. was ever wrong with me that I thought was wrong. And so now I feel safe to explore all these other parts of my life. It's sex as character development, which was,

And I think in some ways the sex scenes worked as an emotional driver. I think it's, and this is, a bridge, but heated robbery is very popular right now for many reasons. But one of the reasons I did talk to Rachel back in the day and she said a main point, her sex scenes actually had emotional arc, and that's probably what's. Working. It's like you need to read the sex scenes because the sex scenes are gonna explain how the relationship's gonna work. Like you can't skip them. And there's a purpose. And I think your book is bringing that purpose, again, it's like an emotional arc. There must be a meaning. It's not just like banging for the sake of banging. There's actually an emotional payoff that's part of it. It's not that we want closed door we. We are mad at it. It's closed door. It's like the fact that you shut the door on the emotional payoff that we are gonna get when have sex. And that's why we want the open door. It's not just a sex for sake. 'cause that's erotica and that's fine. There's actually a whole genre for it. But when you talk about romance, sex scenes have an emotional arc that drives the story. And that's why in some ways hate robbery is working because we see the emotional arc working on those sex scenes,

absolutely. Yeah. I had a scene I tragically had to cut. Like I, I made a rule for myself that every

Yeah.

to further their story in some way. Like I wanted to see what it looks like if, like The sex scenes were necessary, right? Like that old chestnut. I had a scene where he made

yeah.

like he was teaching her to drive. She doesn't know how to drive and he makes her climax with

Yeah.

like the vibrations of his car speakers. And I love that scene so much. And maybe one day I'll release it like as a freebie.

Yeah.

anything for them as characters. It was just delighting me personally. And so I was like, okay, well we can't have it. It's gotta go or it's gonna ruin the piecing.

Yeah,

You gotta kill your darlings your. girls climax with

I think you just need to release it as a freebie as.

Little

Yeah. You know how they do arts or sex hours. It's like you just do the freebie and just tell us like, a new adventure in the car. It'll take your speakers at a new level that you never expected.

It's how

Yeah.

to drive. 'cause she's so scared, like she doesn't wanna go fast and he's I won't turn it up unless you drive in normal speed. It's so funny. But it'll last, it'll have to be a reader magnet. Everyone stay tuned for

Awesome. All right, so let's talk about the transition between screenwriting. 'cause writing for movies, writing for Hallmark and Lifetime and Netflix, it's screenwriting is a very different than writing books because books actually have descriptions and it has a world that you gotta build it in. While it's not, it can be dial like having, but it still like less. Dialogue and more stuff. What was your transition like between screenwriting into writing spicy, 'cause homework does not at this level.

No, it's the opposite. It's so funny, I had a very weird trajectory. So I actually, my first things I ever published were with Corina Press under. Pen name and it was erotica, like it was in

Yes.

bits line or naughty bits. I don't remember what it was called. And it was every 1500 words I had to write a sex scene. So the first things I ever published were just like straight erotica. And I still love this books. I adored 'em in like my own silly little way. But like after I did that, I was like, okay, well what's the opposite of this? Like my thesaurus is breaking at the word penis is always my joke. Like I have to find something else. So Hallmark was launching a publishing line. And so I was like that is the opposite of alien erotica and it's this. And so I wrote a Hallmark book and they bought it and it was off of the back of those books that I got my first screenwriting gig writing for Lifetime, which then became Hallmark. And I did a bunch of other stuff. But so I've lived kind of in the sweet and cozy world for a long time. I hate to use those words to describe like. without spice, but like

Yeah.

in the closed door space for a long time. But like I'm a freak at heart and I feel like can only

Yeah.

in horny jail for so long. So it was really delightful to get to come back. And, I think to me, the thing I always tell people who ask me like, well, do you like one better or worse? Or, do you, is this like the real you and the hallmark was the fake you? And I'm like, that's not true at all. What I think it is to me is sex scenes and physical intimacy are just like one tool in an author, a romance author in particulars, toolbox to character development and storytelling. And some stories call for a lot of those moments and some call for none of 'em, right? And what I, my kind of dual writing career has allowed you to do is. Tell stories in a lot of different ways and not have to force a story one way or the other because of some mandate. Like I, I get to tell, my one kiss, Christmas romances and then I also get to do this. So I've been

I'm glad that you're doing both. I'm glad that it's like, in a way, it doesn't feel like digitality. I think right now it seems in a Roman space there seems to like either or they're going against each other when the really reality is sometimes you just wanna skip a sex scene because it's not doing for you, and sometimes you just want to have an angsty. Hate sex, or captive captor as I love the good mafia and romance. It's a full of red flags, but God bless, I need to be in that mood. So I, a, a reader is not an absolute, they might not, they might only read that, but many readers are like in a spectrum, and it just depends on the,

absolutely.

yeah.

Yeah, like I, my, the historical romance is where I always go because I think historical romance is like such a rich and fun playground. And two of my favorite writers right now, I have one of them recommended, but one is Lydia Lloyd, who is like my. Freaky erotic historical romance queen.

Yeah.

is Mimi Matthews, who does not do sex scenes at all. Everything is closed door. And like I would read anything that those two people wrote because the romances are the things that I'm coming for, and those are satisfying and good. And their use of sex scenes are the lack of sex scenes. part of the way that they tell those stories and develop that intimacy. So like I, I think we can have it all. We can have it all. We finally

We can have it all. So let's talk some book recommendations. 'cause I love your recommendations and I love how you pose Lydia's recommendations. If you think mine are not sexy enough, who are you? So let's talk Lydia's recommendation first and then we'll talk about the other recommendations.

Okay. So I love all things Lydia Lloyd. I think Lydia Lloyd is just they, there's like a phrase my younger sisters say, which is I love whatever's wrong with you. That's what my little sisters

Yeah.

I love whatever's wrong with you. At least that's kind of how I feel about Lydia Lloyd.

Yes.

love, whatever is wrong with Lydia Lloyd, it's delightful. Everything she writes is fantastic. So she has this new book. Called the de seduction of Mr. Alfred Saintsbury. And my pitch was, if you walk away from a little buzz, being like, that was good, but it could have been spicier. My first thought is I don't know what's wrong with you. I love it, but I don't know what's wrong with you. But congrats because Lydia's book is filthy and all of the best ways. It's about a rich kind of alpha heroine in Regency era England. Who inherits his house and she needs to get pregnant. And she's you know who I'm gonna pick is the horrifically repressed, like Sexualness Vicar who is under my care. And she's you're gonna give me a baby or I'm gonna fire you. And he's me. you sure? And she's absolutely. And then they just have the most like torrid messed up, like power dynamic switching affair. Then like it's so good. It's delicious. If you want amazing steam and spice in an unconventional setting and with an unconventional dynamic, like that's usually something you would kind of see in like bodes rippy, old school historical romance. But because the sexes are reversed and the power dynamic at first is reversed, like a whole new world. Like you guys are gonna love it. So yeah highly recommend the deduction of Mr.

I am adding that to my TBR. You had me at Power Dynamics and we press I need and you gotta do it.

As,

So talk to us about some other recommendations you have.

Okay, so my number one rec, like kind of in companion with a little buzzed is Adriana Anders new book dom com. This is I was earlier saying that it's the Barbie meme where it's I'm just like you, you're just like me. I'm like, that's kind of a little buzzed in dom com. They have so much in common, funny, high heat workplace romances that really use sex and physical intimacy to tell like a deep and rich romantic story. And then there's also the redo list by Denise Williams, which is very much a book in conversation with a little buzz where it's about someone who has really had a lot taken from 'em. At a young age and decides at an older age no, I'm getting that shit back. That's mine. And I get to have agency over it and I'm gonna decide how it gets done and has this like beautiful, brilliant love story while kind of rebuilding their life. And it's just, it's a fantastic book. I think people are really gonna love it. It's getting like all the plots for all the right reasons. Could not recommend it enough. and then I think my last. Recommendation is one that you and I have really connected over, which is a love Most Fatal by Kath Richards. I also have a love most brutal, but I'm an OG love most fatal gal. For those who don't know, I don't know how much you've

No, it's romcom. That's all I can say.

It's a mob be romcom, which someone pitched that. I found it on Instagram. It like popped up and I was like, ma, be romcom. And I was like, click. But basically it's about a

Yeah.

mob boss who falls in love with a school teacher and has to protect him and take him under her wing. And he's kind of like humble and a little bumbling and kind of like. Crane, Milo Thatch, like you're like

Yeah.

School teacher that you had to crush on. Like perfect. And then she just thinks, she's like this unlovable monster. I can never be with a normal person. And then they have like compelling romance where the ice queen melts and the bumbling man kind of finds himself and like together they build this beautiful relationship and I just love so much. And it like launches this great series. Her sister, the main character's sister gets the next book and that's also an exceptional book. So I highly recommend all of Ka Richard's books,

gotta talk about how the math teacher has to interview mob bosses for her arranged marriage because that is the best.

Yes. That is such a

Breezer was like, oh, he has to interview all the mob bosses and be like, oh, can you be a good husband?

It's like I, again, I totally think in like movie brain, like I read a book and like immediately, okay, how do you turn this cinematic? And like in my head, I just have this

yes.

Elman scored montage, you know of him like at across the counter

Yes. Yeah. Yes. I think Cath Richard's books, if you're uncertain about mafia, you're like, I don't do mafia. It's too many red flags. This actually takes it a like upside down because the mob boss is the female and she has a lot of power and she is trying to do it well. Like she's not horrible as a person. She only kills because she has to kill it's not like anything else. And she doesn't do any of the sketchy stuff like human trafficking and, just drugs and stuff. So it's lovely. Just track. It's okay. So it's not only business, but you know, it is what it's, but she is empowered to get this normal guy who is their nephew's math teacher. It's and she's. So cute. And he's he has no idea this world that is underground that's happening and he's just happens to be in the wrong place around right time, or maybe right place, right time. You don't even know. So it's a great introduction. I love that there's like a, like more romcoms or darker romcoms, which takes you to explore those themes that you may think are too dark and to actually explore them in a place where it feels safe and take turns the tropes upside down. So you can laugh a little bit about it.

And I definitely trust Ka with that balance, like there, and it's, which is incredible for an indie

Yeah, this is debut. This is not not.

she. Yeah, this is Kat's debut novel and it's just unbelievably good and like gripping and lovely and

Yes. Elise, tell us where you're gonna find online.

You can find me at elise murray books. That's A-L-Y-S-M-U-R-R-A-Y books on Instagram and alys murray.com Absolutely. Thank you so much and if your listeners want to pre-order a little buzz you can do it at any of your local indie bookstores but you can also do it specifically at Garden District Books in New Orleans. I will sign it, I will personalize it and you'll get these really fun custom, a

Okay.

stickers to go with it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.