Hello, human collective.

Welcome to the Upside to Grief.

My name is Story and I am your host.

And my name is Erica and I am your co host.

Welcome to Chapter nine.

Welcome to Chapter nine.

Wow.

How did we get here?

Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, it's been.

It's been awesome.

It's been.

It's been a journey.

It's definitely been a journey.

And Chapter nine, us.

Do you want to share what we're going to talk about?

Yeah.

Okay.

So we're going to talk about the firsts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a few days before, you know, the.

The winter holidays, Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's.

And we both lost our people like earlier in the year.

Spanish.

So we're gonna just talk about like some of the firsts that we experienced and kind of go throughout our year.

I feel like in my head I thought.

I don't know if I ever like consciously thought this, but in my head I thought, okay, if I can get through this first year, everything's gonna be okay.

Like as long as I can get through all the firsts, then everything's gonna be fine.

Like I'll know what to expect and I'll have a plan and things are gonna be in my control again.

And I think a lot of people think that.

Yeah, but a lot of people are told that too.

The first are the worst.

And I was never told any of that.

So like in my head I thought like that was all new process for me.

I hadn't heard that at all.

Nobody told that to me.

I just remember like saying that out loud and people just being like, hm, yeah.

Or like some people maybe if they didn't understand, I think they even agreed with me, like, yeah, yeah, it'll be easier.

I don't think it is.

I.

That's just me.

And I wish.

I don't know, I guess maybe.

I don't know if I. I guess I just like for people to be real with me, you know, So I feel like.

But I didn't meet somebody who lost their husband.

I didn't meet somebody who had a such a similar grief story to me for a while.

And I didn't look for anybody.

I didn't reach out.

So that's on me, I guess.

But I just think that they're all different.

And I was actually talking about.

I was just talking about this like 2 hours ago with my not blood brother.

He's my brother, but not my blood.

Anyways, we were talking about it and I was like.

Because I was so dish.

I disassociated a lot in the first year, so it was almost like, I don't know, like, year two, it was more real.

Like, it was like, oh, okay, we're still doing this.

But that's just how my experience was.

And so I get.

What I was gonna say is, I wish somebody would have been like, no, it never gets better, but I don't.

Anniversaries always suck.

Mm.

But I don't know if that would have helped.

I don't know.

You just.

You just.

You just are.

You just.

It just is.

Yeah.

And even that, like, I don't know.

I don't.

I actually don't think that there's anything that somebody could say to make it better.

I feel like, you know, just.

Just being there and witnessing is good, because I don't think all anniversaries suck.

For me, they aren't as painful as they were, or they have shifted into something because I've taken them back.

So, yeah, I'm sure for some people, they suck every single time.

Maybe for some people that year, it does get better.

Or maybe some people avoid it so hard that they never know, and it's just kind of like, you know, swimming in denial.

Yeah.

There's.

There's so.

It can.

It can be so many different things.

I just feel like if we had the opportunity to know that, like, yeah, sometimes it's like this and sometimes it's like that, then we'd be able to be like, okay, at least I know.

Like, maybe mine will be like that.

Or, like, I won't be so.

Either, like, surprised or numb or, you know, you just won't feel as alone or you just realize, okay, like, what I'm going through right now is normal.

Yeah.

And, I mean, I feel like for me and my journey, I guess, after the firsts, because the firsts, like, the day, like, the actual dates were really difficult.

But then what I've noticed in my year two and then going into year three is that it's actually the days leading up to it that tend to be more difficult for me.

And then the day of is usually like, all right.

Because I do.

I implement practices and do different things that I set out on that day to do.

And so, like, how you said, like, you.

You took them back.

You know, I feel like, in a sense.

Right.

I kind of do the same thing.

And so what has happened is that it's.

It's.

It's the days leading up to it.

I'm always a mess before, and I.

And I don't know if it's gonna be.

It's been times where it's like the day or two before, and then there's been a time where, like, it was a week before, and all of a sudden I'm at work and I'm like, I gotta go.

And I'm like, God damn it.

Like.

Because I can't.

I can't get my mind to straighten out and focus.

And I'm like, I know why this is happening, but I can't, I guess, do what I'm supposed to, what I'm supposed to be doing at that moment, because my grief and my emotions is like, no, nope, nope.

This is the time for this right now.

Do this right now.

We decide.

Got a paper due.

Psych.

Later.

Deadlines.

Fuck you.

You need to work to pay your bills.

Not today.

Yeah, we're going to interrupt that.

I.

That was.

It was one of the things that I learned very quickly by, like, listening to the podcast that I did and reading all the stuff that I did was that part that you shared that the days leading up are probably going to feel a lot worse than the actual day.

And I remember hearing that before my dad died.

And so it kind of stuck with me.

And I actively planned for that first year, and I knew that the days ahead of time were more.

Most likely to be more difficult.

So I communicated with people, like, where I was at, especially, like, when I actually started to feel things.

For example, when my dad died, it was April 16, and basically the next holiday after that is Mother's Day, and my dad's birthday is right around Mother's Day.

Sometimes they fall on the same day, and that was always something my mom dreaded.

She dreaded the year that they would fall on the same day, which was actually this year.

So I made sure to do something with her this year.

But going back to that very first time, I knew my family and I did something for his birthday.

Like, I already knew that was something that I wanted to do.

And my mom really wanted to actually go to his grave because there was a lot of sentimental value with one of their favorite songs, which was when I turned 64 by the Beatles.

My dad died when he was 63, so, like, when we went to his grave for his birthday, we played that song.

My dad didn't make it to his 64th birthday, and they would always listen to that song and, like, you know, be like, we're listening to this when you turn 64.

And they didn't get to.

So it was very emotional.

But then the holiday right up after that was Father's Day.

And.

Same kind of thing.

Like, I didn't.

Not that I don't care about Mother's Day, but I was like, okay, Father's Day is coming up.

Like, I had, like, you know, all the anxiety, and I remember reaching out to a friend, and her dad had also died.

It's Sherry.

And I just remember telling her that whole thing, like, I am worried about this date.

I don't want to be alone.

I'm probably going to reach out to you in, like, the week before.

Because, like, I have heard that the days leading up to these dates really are not fun.

And she's like, yeah, let's go out to breakfast for our dads.

And.

And so the days leading up to it, I had something to look forward to.

It was still painful, but I already had that knowledge.

Like, okay, these are gonna be painful.

Like, be active about just being gentle with myself and letting myself be however I needed to be.

And then the actual day of Father's Day, it was Jim and I and Sherry and somebody else.

And we all had breakfast on Father's Day, and she did something, like, super kind for me.

And, yeah, it just.

It was good knowing that I had plans that day.

And that was, like, the first, besides my dad's actual birthday, which was super significant.

But I feel like for my mom, that's probably one of those days that she'll, like, never forget, probably because it's really painful.

But, yeah, that was, like, my most.

That was kind of like my first.

First.

Besides, my dad's birthday was, like, the Father's Day thing, just knowing and actively planning.

Yeah, I'm glad that you have Sherry.

Me, too.

Yeah.

So then after April and then May and then June, is there more holidays?

Memorial Day.

There's Memorial Day and Veterans Day, which is.

That was another one that was really heavier for my mom because they were both in service together, and my dad's buried on a military cemetery, so they make a whole thing about it.

Like, it's a very emotional day of, like, grief and honoring.

So, technically, those were kind of heavy in the sense that I just knew, like, my dad was buried at that cemetery for a reason.

Like, it was a legacy thing.

Like, that was his career.

It was so important to him.

And he was also interned at his church.

Like, those were very important to him.

So, yeah, there was, like, those military federal holidays.

But then after that, we kind of get into, like, the times that we are right now, like, Thanksgiving and Christmas or, you know, if you don't practice Christmas, the other mainstream Ones are like Hanukkah or gosh, what else is there?

Yule.

I don't think that's as mainstream though.

But yeah, those were definitely heavier ones.

I remember my sister in law, my older brother's wife, she was like, I want you guys to come to our house for Christmas in Wisconsin.

And I can't remember exactly what I said, but I remember responding to her very quickly saying no, absolutely not, absolutely not.

Which it was just, it was like the most kind thing that was, that was a good thing for her to do.

Like I think it was the perfect thing for her to ask like you guys, you know, you can come celebrate Christmas with us.

Because that's.

It wasn't like she was trying to cause her mom passed away.

So like she's very, she was, I love her.

She's such a sweet soul.

Like she understands and she was there for us and she, she did all the things that we talk about on here.

And I feel like her saying that was an amazing thing because one, it gives you an out.

But two, it also gave me the strength to be like what do I actually want or what do I not want for this holiday?

And the biggest thing for me was we celebrate like the Thanksgiving time at my aunt's house and then our Christmas time was usually spent at my parents house.

So in my head I'm panicking because no, like we have to be at my parents house.

That's like what we always do for Christmas.

Like we can't.

Why would we do anything different?

Like that's crazy.

So yeah, I just remember being like, no, we need to be here.

Like I need to be here.

So yeah, that's.

That really helped me.

I think it made me realize, okay, like no, I do because I didn't know what I wanted to do for the holidays.

I think that this a really hard one to think about too.

Like what do you do especially if your person really loved a certain holiday or did certain things.

That's a really hard one to navigate.

So we had Christmas at my parents house and I made cinnamon rolls in honor of my dad.

And we did a couple other things in honor of my dad.

And there were a couple things that.

I'm gonna say it.

I don't know if she'll watch but my mom tried to change now that my dad was gone.

She was like, okay, I have the opportunity to do this instead.

And in my head I'm like seething because I'm like, no, we can't change anything.

No.

Like just internally screaming like no.

But I Felt like, okay, like, I got some of the things that I needed.

Like, maybe this is what she needs.

And.

And I just had to, like, really take myself out of that and honor that process, which was really hard.

Stuff.

Like, that still happens.

And.

Yeah, it was a lot.

What about you?

What were those first, like, months leading up to the holidays?

So Ken passed in July, so the first thing that happens is Labor Day after that, which we got married Labor Day weekend.

So, like, of course we chose to get married on Labor Day weekend.

Like, but that's just when we ended up getting together.

So that's just what it fell on.

You know what I mean?

That's like a.

A big weekend that I guess I don't normally would feel like, would affect me, but.

Right.

Very much does.

Labor Day weekend is very.

Yeah.

So.

But really, though, like, besides, like, holidays, like, before Labor Day, just.

Only in my year one was this a thing for me.

But the one month when it happened.

One month.

Because that happened before Labor Day, like, not very.

The 30 days.

The 30 days.

And I wasn't prepared.

I did not plan, and I don't know why I didn't plan.

Probably because I was not.

I don't even know who I was at that time.

And I was in treatment at the time.

And I remember that my counselor had made a comment about it when I was in her office talking to her about it.

And she was like, why didn't you plan?

And I was like, I don't know, because I didn't know that I needed to.

Were you in there telling her, like, I can't believe it's a month or something?

And then she said that, or did she bring up, like, it's been a month?

No.

So what.

What happened was, is that on the one month.

And I think.

I think I shared.

I think I've shared about this in the chat.

Chapter one.

When I went into the ocean.

Did I share about that at Swami's?

I went to the ocean before my therapy appointment.

That whole thing.

That was on the one month.

And so in that morning, when all the events were taking place, because I wanted to go to the ocean and they wouldn't let me because I hadn't been there for 30 days.

And you can't just, like, walk around.

I mean, I could.

I would have got in trouble or kicked out or I probably wouldn't have got kicked out.

Honestly, I probably could have left and came back, but I wasn't trying to, like, get in trouble, you know, But I wanted to go to the ocean and they Were like, no.

And so then I have been in my room, and I was in my room crying.

And, like, I remember one of the RA people came by and was like, don't.

Like, you're listening to sad music.

That's not going to help.

And I'm like, okay, but I want to listen to sad music right now.

Like, just let me do what I'm doing.

Like, I was in my room crying, listening to Lana Del Rey, and then, like, telling me to stop doing that.

And I'm like, didn't you just let me be.

Fuck off.

Like, let me do what I'm doing.

And so then I had talked to somebody that worked there, and I was explaining what was going on, and I was telling her, like, I am not okay.

And I hadn't gone to group.

And so there was a childcare lab there.

And we were.

She.

She was walking me.

I don't.

At some point she got me to go to group, and so I'm like, okay, fine.

So I, like, had grabbed my backpack.

We were walking down the hallway and.

And we walked by childcare lab, and there was like, two moms there, and one of her kids was like, spazzing out and was like, I have to go to an appointment.

Like, I can't be in childcare lab.

Da, da da da da.

And then the lady that worked there turned around and was like, well, story can do it.

And I snapped.

And I was like, no, I cannot do it.

I just told you that I am not okay right now.

Why would you think that it would be a good idea for me to watch children right now?

I can't function that you want me.

Like, what?

And so I was like, you this group.

And I turn around and I went back to my room.

And so it was like a whole thing, right?

And so then when I met with my counselor after this whole situation, I think that's maybe where it came from, because I.

It was like the super supervisor that I told the off.

But I had literally just talked to her for, like, 10 minutes and very much explained to her in depth that I was not okay.

And I felt like when I was talking to her, it was just literally like going in one ear and out the other, and she was not hearing me at all.

Like, she was listening, but she wasn't hearing what I was saying.

And so then, I don't know.

Then my counselor was like, well, why weren't you prepared for that?

And I'm like, I don't know because I've never lost my fucking husband.

I don't this is new to me.

Do you not understand that this is new to me?

Like, yes, I've lost people, but I've never lost my partner.

And I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

And what the fuck are you supposed to prepare for again?

And what.

What was I supposed to do?

I tried to do the things that I was in my room, I was listening to music.

They all were yelling at me for listening to music.

I was not trying to go to group and be around people because I didn't think I should be around people.

What are you trying to do, make me go to group?

I told you the one thing that would help.

And I said that was the ocean wouldn't let me go to the ocean.

So it's like, what exactly?

Like, you know, and then it's.

This is kind of going sideways.

But it turned into this whole like when I would get in like that funk, it was like this.

Oh, like it's.

You're in a relapse mode.

And I'm like, no, I'm not.

And if I wanted to leave and go party, I would.

Don't you think I would have left by now?

Yeah.

Like, I'm not in relapse mode.

I'm grieving the loss of my fucking husband.

So can you just back the fuck up?

So that was difficult like that, that 30 day mark.

Because just be.

I don't think that 30 day mark didn't need to be that difficult, but because of the environment I was in and the place that I was in, it did not pan out.

And in a trauma informed way whatsoever.

So that was hard.

Yeah, that was really fucking hard.

Yeah.

And then after that slave weekend, which is our anniversary.

So.

So like in the years forward now, it's.

That's my first of my year.

Are.

It's.

It's like his death anniversary and then our anniversary just like, bam, bam.

It's fucked up.

Yeah.

So.

But I've gone to the ocean every year.

I go to the ocean every year.

The first year.

And I shared about this.

I got his name tattooed on our anniversary and went to the ocean.

That's.

I think that's really the only thing I remember about that day.

I just remember being at the ocean at Encinitas and then getting my tattoo.

I think I went to a self help meeting.

I did.

I shared.

I cried.

People came and hugged me.

Yes, that's what happened.

But yeah, it's that one.

And then after Labor Day, Halloween's not like too.

I'm not.

We were always Working.

We work in restaurants and stuff like that.

So it wasn't like, you know, like we didn't have kids, we weren't doing like activities like that and we were just working or, you know, so that's not like a hard one for me, so to speak.

And then.

Yeah.

And then we go into holiday season and the first year, I remember, I just was so busy.

I just.

I.

Literally the first Thanksgiving, I went to four Thanksgivings that day.

I saw you that day.

That's one of the Thanksgivings that I went to too.

Yep.

I went to multiple Thanksgivings as well.

Yes.

Yeah.

Cuz that was both of us.

We're.

We're in the same years at the same time essentially because we're a couple.

Three.

Three months apart.

But yeah, I just, I stayed busy.

I didn't give myself downtime and in that time.

But what was, what's interesting is the first Christmas.

So my mom came during that time.

It was either she was gonna come for Thanksgiving or she was gonna come for Christmas.

And I was like, no, I think you should come for Christmas.

And we, I was living in north county and we were going down to.

We decided to go to the beach that we got married at on Christmas down in Ocean Beach.

And I remember being in the car with her and we had stopped and got coffee and she was driving and I just like.

I don't know, I was still in my state of disassociation because that went on until like mid January.

So this is a couple like three weeks before.

Before like my anxiety shifted and we were like.

Had just got on the freeway and I just felt like.

I felt like I wanted to crawl out of my skin.

And so I like, I had put my.

I put my.

I knew I was gonna start crying, like.

And so I put my sunglasses on.

And so then my mom like noticed, you know, and she's like, are you okay?

And I was like, yeah, I just really need to breathe right now.

And so I turned on a song by Parody Ring and I turned it up and then I just started like taking really deep breaths and I had this really interesting experience where.

I don't know, it's kind of hard to explain because also like, I was disassociating at the time, but I just remembered that whatever the fuck happened in my body, like I had a bunch of anxiety and then I was doing breathing and then I just.

Basically I was like, water was coming out of my face and I was like, I'm just gonna breathe through this and just let it happen.

And Then I.

And I did.

And then as I was doing that, I just had like a rush of fucking endorphins, like go through my entire body.

Like it felt like.

It literally felt like I had got high for a second.

And I remember sharing that with my mom because after it happened that like my, my nerves felt better.

But then I was like, what the fuck just happened?

And so I was like, I need to share something with you.

And she's like, what is going on?

And.

And so, so I essentially just explained what I just said, you know, But I was like, that was really strange.

I don't know how to feel.

I feel better, but like I literally feel.

I don't know what my body just released.

But I. I just felt like I was just like high there for a second.

Like it was a really strange experience that I had.

But it happened when we.

Yeah, when we were driving down the freeway and I just was like, I'm just gonna breathe through this.

And it was really intense.

Like I said, I was dissociating at the time still too.

So it's hard to.

It's kind of hard to like pinpoint or I guess express or remember the time in the first six months.

It's hard to describe it sometimes because it's just really difficult.

Yeah, I feel like that is another one of those possible experiences is dissociating.

And not necessarily numbness, but the blur.

Yeah.

So it can be blurry too.

Oh, fucking blur.

Blurry.

Out of body, out of mind.

Just not there.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you were.

Before we started recording, you were talking about New Year's.

Did you do.

You were talking about like a ritual that you do for New Year's, something new that you were doing.

Did you do that the first year or was this something that you did kind of later on?

Nope, that was the first year.

Yep.

Sure.

So now on New Year's, that first year.

Cause I was really heavy into going to self help groups at the time.

I think you came down to the New Year's.

Not the first year, the second year.

I think it was the second year.

The second year.

So it was a sunrise gathering and it was just.

It was pretty cool.

Yeah, we did the sheets of paper the second year and I. I know I did.

I.

It's like optional.

I'm pretty sure I would have participated.

I don't really remember.

It was early.

I remember it was early.

It's early.

Yeah.

So there's like it's a self help meeting and it's on the bay and it's dark when you get there and you start a fire and you just kind of bring in the new year like that.

So I had went to that in my year one, and it was the first time that they did that, and it was just very intentional.

Different things we were throwing in the fire.

And, you know, I wrote down on a sheet of paper what I was going to leave in the year behind, which on my year one, I don't remember what I left in the year before.

I could.

I can't tell you what I left, but.

And I remember what I put for the year forward with.

You write one, like, one word.

You pick one word for the year, like, what's your intention?

What do you want to see happen?

All that.

And so I chose the word Hope that year, and it was because I felt extremely hopeless.

I actually went through this whole thing throughout the day that time.

I was like, against hope.

Like, I actively hated the idea of it and the word and basically anything that had to do with it.

I was really.

I got into a really depressed state.

And so I was like, I don't believe in hope.

And I was like, when I don't want to get out of bed, is Hope going to get me out of bed?

No, the fuck it's not.

Discipline's going to get me out of bed.

That was.

That was story that year.

Discipline, motherfucker.

I'm sure you heard me say that shit, didn't you?

That's what I said.

It was a thing.

It was a thing.

It kept you sane, though.

It kept me sane.

I needed something, and that's what it was.

And it was almost like it's kind of mean to myself to think about it, but I needed something, and Hope was not that.

And so I don't know why I was like, that's what I chose, though.

I put that word into the fire.

And I did get Hope that year.

Like, that.

That did happen.

And it's actually funny because NF released his album called Hope and went on tour that year as well.

And, like, I'm not religious or anything.

And so it's really funny that I. I.

His music really helped me in year one.

It really did.

That whole album Hope helped me a lot.

And I remember actually Roseanne at one point was like, are you listening to nf?

And I was like, yeah, I love him.

Have you heard the song Hope?

She's like, you know he's a Christian rapper, right?

And then I was thinking about it, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess.

I guess that does make sense.

You know, but he says he.

The way he says it, you know what I mean?

They could be like, on God or.

You know what I mean?

Like, the.

The way that it's.

It doesn't.

It didn't translate to that as me, but I was like, I still think he's great, you know, like, he's sending a great message.

You know, it's like, pray for me like that.

But I'm like, I didn't think about it like that.

And then she was like, no, he's a Christian rapper.

And she was like, I think it's great.

And so I listened to him a lot.

And then I went to his concert by myself that year.

So it's like, yeah, that the whole Hope thing was a whole thing, but I put that in the fire with an intention.

And honestly, I did not believe that it was gonna happen when I put it in the fire.

But I was like, what do I have to fucking lose?

You know?

That's where I was at.

So I was like, fucking burn it.

And it did.

It did.

And that was.

Yeah, it was wild.

So.

So I always put a word in.

It's only happened twice now.

But I'm.

I don't know what my.

My word is going to be this year.

Last year, I chose love.

Cool.

This was my year of love.

I love that.

Fire rituals.

Yeah.

Okay, so we're.

We're in the new year now.

We're in the new year.

And I don't resonate so much with, like, Valentine's Day, but what was your experience with that?

I don't remember.

Okay.

I couldn't tell you.

I mean, I was trying to think about.

I was trying to remember what the I did on my birthday because I know that this past year.

So my year two birthday was hard.

I remember that.

I remember the morning of my birthday, and I, like, it's funny, actually, I went to go take the trash out.

I got up and I just started cleaning everything.

All of a sudden I woke up and I was cleaning the whole fucking house.

And I went to take the trash out.

And then I felt it, and I was like, oh, here it is.

There's grease.

There it is.

And so I. I sat down and I started crying.

I FaceTimed a friend and talked to her for a minute, and.

And what's funny about the situation is that I was living with my.

What I call my adopted family at the time, and they had like, a candle.

Like, it looks like a cupcake candle, but it's just a candle.

And then they had, like, A card and like gifts and balloons and stuff.

And so they thought I was going to come back in the house.

And it's so funny because the kids too, one of the kids was like going to play Happy Birthday on the trumpet and they were going to sing and it was this whole thing.

So they're like waiting in the hallway in the house, like peeking around the corner, waiting for me to come back in the house.

And then I never came back in the house.

And so that's when, you know, Denia was like, she's probably having a moment, like, let's give her a second.

So then, you know, then they were just all standing there.

And then when I finally, I calmed down a little bit and then I came back into the house and I walked in the kitchen.

And then all of a sudden they all walked into the kitchen and they're playing the trumpet and they're singing Happy Birthday.

And then like the whole thing.

And you know, Deanie was like, you know, make a.

Make a wish for you and Ken and the whole thing.

And.

And then after that she told me, she's like, we were waiting around the corner for you and you never came back into the house.

And I was like, oh yeah.

Grief was like, hey, you're gonna sit down?

Yeah.

So it's.

It's funny, but yeah, I'm trying to think.

I don't know what I did on my birthday in year one.

I have no idea.

I got reminded of something.

It's not necessarily holidays, but it was like we were trying to plan as close to the holidays as we could to go see Jim's family.

And I get to meet them for the first time.

And something that Jim's sister Terry did was.

So Jim used to live in North Carolina where we were visiting his family, who was still there.

They moved there from California.

So we were visiting them at his parents house.

And Jim still had like his room.

And we walked upstairs and Terry, his sister, had framed a whole bunch of pictures of like me and my dad inside of the room.

And it was just like so, so intentional.

Yeah, I just like burst into tears immediately because that was her way of, I don't know, just showing me that she cared and that she was watching and like, welcome home.

She sees me and yeah, it was just a very welcoming feeling and I felt really good and yeah, it was a great moment.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

And getting to meet Jim's parents was just really amazing.

I'm so glad that we did that.

We had a.

We had a lot of fun and helped a lot too, just because his dad reminds me a lot of, like, my dad and my grandpa.

So it just felt very.

It just felt so at home.

It was nice.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was pretty great.

But then after that, coming into the new year, it's, you know, you have Easter, which was only significant in the sense that my dad was Christian.

So a lot of little things that we would do together just weren't there anymore.

But then immediately after that is my birthday.

And my dad died five days after my birthday.

And the memories of how my birthday went when he was still alive, I hold onto them really fucking tight, but they are also super fucking heartbreaking.

Like, a lot of really sad moments happened that day because little did I know that last birthday I had with him the year before that was the last time that I would get certain things from him because he was where he was at.

Yeah.

For example, this is another little side route.

But my dad would always call his siblings and all the special people in his life and sing them Happy Birthday.

I think quite a few family members have messages or recordings of him singing Happy Birthday.

I do, too.

And I didn't get that phone call that year.

And I, like, you know, went over to the house because, like, I was spending every moment I could with him.

And I remember walking in and being like, I didn't get a phone call today.

Like, nobody's saying me Happy Birthday.

And my dad was like, oh, I'm so sorry.

Can you leave the room really quick?

And so I, you know, I walk out of the room with my phone and he calls me from the other room and he likes.

Tries to sing me Happy Birthday.

And I was like, I wish I could have recorded it sometimes.

Sometimes not, because it was really hard.

But, yeah, I think about all that stuff because my birthday is the next date, so it's.

It's really fucking hard.

And then my birthday, and then he dies five days later.

And that was another one of those where I just, like.

I tried to be present and celebrate the.

Celebrate the highs with the lows, I guess you could call them.

That was something that my family taught me when my dad died.

Because when my dad died and during the processes of us having to, like, arrange funeral services and the internment and the memorial, all of that.

Jim celebrated five years sober.

Pretty sure that was five years.

Either way, he had a milestone.

And my family was there, like, at our house, because of everything that was going on.

I think we were just about to do the internment at the.

At Miramar National Cemetery.

And we celebrated him.

Like we had all written in a card and made his favorite dessert and we surprised him and we sang Happy Birthday.

And he was so emotional because he was basically.

He like literally said it at one point too.

He was like, I don't understand.

Like, how can you guys.

How can you guys do this?

Like, when we just had to do this?

And they're like, well, we still have to celebrate you.

Like, it's.

I don't know how to describe the feeling, but it's like the circle of life thing.

Like, you still have to.

Babies will be born, people will die.

You still have to celebrate the babies being born, the birthdays, the celebrations, like all the happy things.

And I don't know, it was just a very eye opening moment because like, I knew in my heart, like, yes, I want to celebrate this, but like also I have this really deep sadness and it was really hard.

But yeah, I remember that was like one of the.

The upsides.

It was.

Yeah, he was in awe about that for a while.

And seeing it through his eyes was pretty eye openening.

Cuz like in my head I can process that logically.

Like, yes, we still have to celebrate you.

All my family's here.

We're going to celebrate you.

It doesn't matter.

Like, we can do both.

But like, watching him like experience this, like, that was really moving for him and yeah, special for me because of how moving it was for him.

And like seeing my family like gather around him and like, they knew my dad liked him because my dad said so.

So they just accepted him right away and were super friendly.

And yeah, he was family right away.

But that year Mark is a bitch.

I think because of all of that.

Everything's tinged with that half, like all the happy stuff.

But then this really hard thing happened like in between all of that.

So it's a really weird feeling.

Yeah.

Did you end up doing anything for the year Mark or anything leading up to that?

I went home to Minnesota.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

You.

You were allowed to go.

It was a thing.

Yeah.

Because I think, well, in April I have Ken's birthday.

Same.

Same week as your dad passing you and Roseanne and.

And me.

April's just that whole week.

That whole week.

April 19th.

And so that I just went.

I had the means to go to the beach that we got married at at that point.

So I went down there.

But the.

The year Mark, I went home.

And so the kind of the weird thing that happens with that is because he died so close to the Fourth of July.

See, it passed away on July 10th.

And the Fourth of July was a holiday that I actually, like, we did celebrate that.

Like, that was not Halloween as big, but, yes, Fourth of July.

Yes, Fourth of July.

I don't.

I don't know why, but I think it's just because, like, growing up, it was always, like, camping with family and all of that stuff.

And so, like, we did those things.

Like, we went camping with my family and all that up in Floodwood.

And, you know, when we came to California, like, I remember our first Fourth of July here.

Like, we always got all decked out and, like, we were on the beach and all that stuff.

And so I've always celebrated the Fourth of July.

Like, that's one of the holidays that I'm like, no, I'm going to go do stuff, you know, And I'm like the person who wants to, like, go watch fireworks and all of that.

Like, I'm very much a Fourth of July person.

And so it kind of Sucks now, the 4th of July, which is so weird that it's.

That it's that one, you know, but that was just the.

That was the holiday that we.

I don't know, we had like, fun doing that.

I don't know, it's just like summer and carefree and barbecues and, you know, and so it kind of sucks that it's so close because it's almost like the 4th of July is happening.

So it's almost like when the 4th of July is happening, we know what happens next.

Yes.

That's.

I can totally relate to that.

That's kind of exactly the same feeling like, oh, my birthday.

Guess what happens in five days?

Guess what happens after your birthday?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's exactly how I feel about the Fourth of July.

And like, oh, yay.

All this stuff.

And then six days.

Or wait, six days.

Yeah, less than a week.

Yeah.

Yay.

And so then, too, it's like, it makes it difficult with, like, trying to take time off during that time, because obviously the time I'm gonna take off for myself is gonna be around the days of the 10th, you know, which means that, like, normally if I take days off to, like, go camping or do family stuff or do the fourth of July, like, I can't really do that if I'm gonna do other things in the year, because I'm like, otherwise, it's like, it's just a big chunk of time, you know, to take.

But so it makes it a little bit tricky.

But I did.

I went home.

I went home last year, and I think I shared about What I did on Sherry's moments.

Annoying, I think, a little bit, maybe.

I think I talked about when I dumped him down the waterfall.

That was on the one year.

Yeah.

You're like, I think he needs to be in the waterfall.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have a video of it and everything.

It's like.

I think I'm like, I don't know what dimension or timeline you're living in, but maybe you have interdimensional TV and you're watching this.

So I just want to make sure you're having fun still.

So I'm going to dump you down a waterfall and.

Yeah, my dumped them down Minnehaha Falls in Minneapolis, which is the first place we ever took a picture together in 20.

I feel like I've seen that picture online.

Behind the waterfalls.

Ice.

Interesting, because we crawled behind.

It's.

It freezes in the winter, and it becomes like an ice cave.

And we had been, like, hanging out before then, but we hadn't taken a picture yet.

You know, I mean, I was so young.

First picture, I was 23, and I had the biggest, biggest crush on him, and he was, like, the cool guy and stuff, you know?

So I didn't want to be, like, too much, you know?

But I. I, like, vividly remember that moment when I, like, asked somebody else because I was like, do you want to take a picture?

He's like, yeah.

And I'm like, can you take a.

Picture of us, please?

Like, I remember being so excited to, like, take a picture, my first picture with him, like, at the waterfall.

So I dumped him down that waterfall.

It's awesome.

I was gonna say, like, I.

The first are just so weird.

But like, you were saying when we first started talking, like, just changes year after year.

I don't think, like, we just stop thinking those things, like, oh, Christmas without my dad, or we're having Christmas at my dad's house, and he's not here to do all of the things.

It just.

It kind of changes a little bit.

It, like, shifts.

Yeah.

Like how your reality kind of shifts throughout grief and stuff like that.

It just.

It just changes.

It just.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This will.

Do you know what day this is being released?

The 21st.

Okay.

So one of the things that we're kind of processing right now, like, Gemini is.

So his mom passed last year on December 23rd, and so this is going to be released a couple days before her year.

And.

Yeah, I just feel so.

My.

Besides, like, their grief, having to lose their mom, I. I went through a lot trying to be, like, supportive like, be a supportive family member.

Be a supportive.

Well, I wasn't wife yet, but supportive partner while also trying to balance, like, my grief with losing her.

And I'm sure we're going to learn a lot this year, but we're doing something, like, intentionally, I.

It was really hard for me to not be like, you need to do X, Y and Z.

Like, this is how you do grief.

You know, I just had to let them figure it out and.

Yeah, so that's what we're going to be doing.

We're going to be visiting them this year around the holidays and.

Yeah, it's going to be hard.

It's going to be a first.

And.

Yeah, I don't know what it's going to look like yet, but I'm sure we'll talk about it.

I'm sure we will.

Yeah.

But everything just changes.

Like, that first year is just so weird, and everybody deals with it differently.

Mm.

There's no right or wrong way to do it.

Mm.

Mm.

It's just gonna happen.

Yeah.

I feel like the best thing that I could.

That I could pass on just from my own experiences is just be with the people that you love and let them know where you're at.

Yeah.

Just communicate.

Yeah.

That's how I know that people are there for me and can show up.

That's like, the only way they can show up is if they know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Eventually we'll talk about, you know, more involving, like, firsts and anniversaries or traditions that we've implemented, because we could probably go on and on about the stuff that we've done since then.

Yeah.

But this chapter, we'll save it for another day.

Yeah, we'll save it for another day.

So you can just hear what we've done.

It doesn't have to be what you do, but I feel like just hearing what other people have done is all you need to be able to spark that little bit and be like, okay, I can do that too.

And if you want to reach out and share what you have done, please do.

Comment, share.

You can email us personally@upsidedegriefgmail.com yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for talking about the first.

Thank you.

It's so funny.

Like, I feel like we talk so much about it, but there's still so much we don't know, buddy.

Like, each other's experiences.

So it's always really cool to talk to you and like.

Yeah, there's so much.

There's so much.

Yeah.

All right.

Thank you for watching or listening and Next week.

Next week.

Next week.

Next week.

We're going to do fun things.

Yes.

Grief deck polls.

Grief deck polls.

Next week.

It's, it's a little bit more interactive.

Like we pull from decks and we talk about what's on them.

It's, it's going to be a good one.

It's always fun to just kind of like be directed with the conversation instead of us thinking about, oh, let's think about these really emotion provoking topics and possibly get emotional together.

These guide the direction for us.

So it's kind of cool.

Yeah.

So, so thank you so much for tuning in.

And we will see you next week.

I'll see you next week.

Thank you.

Bye.

Love you.

Bye.