You the people have the power, the power to create machines, the power to create happiness.

You the people have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful

adventure. Then in the name of democracy, let us use that power. Let us all unite. Let us

fight for a new world, a decent world. Welcome to Rabble Rants. I'm Santiago Gelo Quintero,

and alongside Jess McLean, we're going to unpack the stories that have us most riled up and

All right, today we're going to talk about the student encampments again, but only in so much

that they are asking us to turn our eyes to RAFA as well. I mean, the whole purpose behind

the encampments is to draw attention to the Israeli genocide against the Palestinians.

And this last week and a half in RAFA has been horrific. Israel has again bombed the safe

zone. in RAFA, killing about 45 people in a single bombing, mostly women and children,

who were sleeping in their tents at the time. I mean, the internet is awash with a fresh

wave of horrific images that you can never unsee, you know, parents bringing out pieces of their

children to simply prove the horrors that they're going through. And true to force, Israel first

denied the bombing. They've now admitted it was them. They're saying it was an accident.

They're going to investigate. I mean, it's almost a meme at this point, the cycle of denial and

minimization that goes on for these war crimes that apparently still don't cross the US's

red line as they've reiterated support for Israel and said that it was bad, but it's just not

bad enough for us to do anything about it. And we've talked about international law before.

This particular bombing happened almost immediately after the ICJ ordered Israel to cease operations

in Rafa, which is considered a humanitarian safe zone. That's from the South African case

against Israel that Mexico is now asked to join. So we've also seen a bunch of nations recognize

the state of Palestine this past two weeks, Norway, Ireland. Spain. But yeah, in terms

of RAFA, another development that we need to be talking about is the creation of a buffer

zone. This is nothing short of annexation. And when you look at the map, it really does start

to look like what the West Bank looks like. Parcels of land separated by military corridors

and one of the most significant corridors. that they've created is to block off the Egyptian

border. Tanks have moved into Ra'afah as well, so much so that almost every aid organization

has ceased operations, most notably the World Central Kitchen. But also I'm sure you've seen

the many, many GoFundMeets that are going around of people trying to flee Gaza, and if you're

paying attention, it's through Egypt that people are finding any refuge. And so this crossing

has completely... been surrounded by the Israeli military. The only border that Palestinians

now have access to is the sea, and Israel blockades the sea, so they have them completely surrounded.

There's nowhere for people to go, and yet they keep dropping bombs. You know, like, the attacks

in Ra'aqa right now have been truly horrible when... after eight months. There's still after

eight months and all the desensitization that people have gone through. Everybody like the

amount of people who are horrified right now, what's going on is as much as I've seen it

throughout the past eight months. I was curious to see what the Zionists were thinking of saying

about it, like how they're justifying it turns out there's fake recordings going around where

They have people pretending to be Hamas saying that, oh, it wasn't actually an Israeli bomb.

It was that they hit ammunition depots that Hamas had that exploded. So in case you're

wondering how they're justifying it to themselves so that they don't have to process the horrifying

images, that's how they're doing it. because there always has to be a way to do so, right?

That makes me so fucking mad because we absolutely know those were US bombs that were dropped

on tents. We fucking know it. Like you can trace it back to your tax dollars. One other tool

that they're also doing and we've seen it before is this pivot to these crisis of anti-Semitism,

right? Just talk about something else, anything else, because we can't possibly justify this

shit. No, it's... I think a textbook case of how people justify things, justify the unjustifiable.

No, it's, I mean, I'm shocked. The last couple months for me, I'd say have flown by in a weird

way because I've been so burnt out, stressed, overwhelmed and busy. And now somehow we're

eight months in and this shit still keeps happening. Like I think back to October. It was horrible

in October, like every single day, every, all the news were here. I remember, I remember

I wrote an article, like two, three weeks in where we were talking about how Israel had

dropped two nuclear bombs worth of bombs. In like two weeks or something. Yeah. And that

now represents a fraction of what's happened in Gaza. You say eight months, but now we're

almost nine months by the time listeners are going to hear this. You're almost at nine months.

Shit, we're almost getting to one year of this genocide. And now these people are completely

trapped. Like when I say trapped, I mean they are trapped. But you're right. Despite the

length of this and the amount of horrific images people have been exposed to, right, and stories,

it has not... dwindled their resolve. It builds, right? Because we are seeing the tide turning

and the door will never close on people viewing Palestine as a legitimate state. And like,

there's some things that just we can't go back on, right? There's been advancements, despite

the horror. And we're still seeing activists escalating their tactics. And they have been

steadily. I don't know where we're going to go from here. Well, we can talk about that.

No wonder students are taking over their campuses. One of the things that I heard this week, it

was a reminder. I mean, I think I already knew it, but that every university in Gaza is gone.

Every single one. Every university in Gaza is gone. And these were I mean, these were good

universities. One thing that Palestinians have always valued very highly is education as a

tool of resistance. Right. Palestinians are For the level of poverty that they, I mean,

I don't think anywhere in the world you'll find a group of people that are more poor, yet most

educated. Like Palestinians are incredibly educated. These universities were incredibly important

to Palestinian culture. Like I said, knowledge and education was for them a form of resistance.

They saw it as a way, like, if I learn things, I can learn ways to help my people. And Israel

knows that. They didn't accidentally blow up. I mean, there was literally controlled demolitions

of universities. And in case you're wondering whether or not that's a conspiracy theory,

you don't have to take my word for it. You can take IDF soldiers words for it because they

filmed it and bragged about it. So it's not like that's a fucking mystery. No, and what's

most shameful is that these universities, these institutions, seeing this devastation of other

universities, scholasticide was a term I learned this week down at the Accampment. It's part

of genocide, right? It's part of destroying an entire peoples and weakening them. But the

fact that these institutions have not spoken out and in fact are demonizing the students

on their campus trying to stop this slaughter is... It should shock people. I mean, it should

change the way you view universities and how they operate in case you thought they were

just like these glowing institutions focused on education and empowering youth or whatnot.

Because yeah, what's going on at the universities in Canada in particular at the University of

Toronto just demonstrates the opposite.

Like, I find that so amusing because universities are pivotal cornerstones of capitalism in the

way that they function. I mean, it's a microcosm. They are as they operate as institutions, but

it is true. Like York University's political science program is a den of Marxists. Okay.

I went through it. I'm not saying you have. Look, the students, faculty, yeah, but like

as institutions and the way they function and the people who succeed because of it, you know,

that's a different story. But one thing I wanted to mention real quick was I'm reminded, you

know, suppressing knowledge is a very key element of genocide, as you said. And I'm reminded

of Canadian genocide against Indigenous people and how they... I mean, not just, I mean, the

residential schools, how they kept people from, from accessing their traditional knowledge,

how they suppressed their ways of knowing and how pivotal that was in that genocide, that

ongoing genocide, right? It's fucking nothing new under the sun, right? Oh, there's so many

parallels to draw there. And it really... when people talk about, oh, you know, you're protesting

a university thousands of kilometers away. What does it mean? I mean, do you not see the parallels?

Do you not see how these things are interconnected parts of the exact same system anyways? And

if you don't make sure you check out our episode with Ms. Squasson, she did a great job of listing

the amount of parallels between the colonialist project that is Canada and the Zionist project

that is Israel on the Internet isn't real. you know, to fake the algorithm out. I'm loving

that. I should just work it into my vocabulary. Maybe our transcripts won't get flagged. But

anyway, let's get into the encampment. Let's. The People's Circle for Palestine. I like that

name. Yeah, it's a good name. I'm sure many listeners are aware of what's been going on.

They better be. It's the largest student encampment in North America right now. We know that there's

an encampment, but I'm sure many of you have already heard about what's like been going

on the past week, right? With the University of Toronto giving an ultimatum to the students

to clear out by Monday, was it 24th? No, 26th? I have horrible track of days. Monday, last

Monday. Monday passed. Monday passed from when we were recording this, we were recording this

Thursday the 30th for context. If not, they would be trespassed, they threatened students

with expulsion, they threatened faculty with being fired. Faculty and staff. And now next

Monday, so the 3rd, again we're recording this the 30th, they have their convocation, so the

timing was obvious. They wanted their green circle. for convocation purposes. And things

did not go the way that the university would hope whatsoever. Now, I was thinking like,

okay, we gotta get ready, you know, gotta get ready to defend it. But I honestly, I didn't

expect what happened. And it was a pleasant surprise to see Laura Walton. president of

the Ontario Federation of Labour, which represents 54 unions and over 1 million workers in Ontario,

put out a pretty badass letter calling on Labour to support the students and saying if the University

of Toronto makes a move against the students, they'll have to go through the workers first,

which was very welcome to see. And Jess and I went down for the rally they had Monday as

the... clock ticked to 8 a.m. marking the deadline and it was a good showing. It was. You know

who didn't show up is there were zero police. You could, I mean when we had gone earlier

you could see a surveillance van that was Mark Bell media bullshit. But you know like you

could see cops just on the outskirts of campus. They came to the front gates at one point when

there was an issue and but like. They were nowhere. And I have not been to any rally or demonstration

in Toronto in some time that did not have at least bike cops kind of on the perimeter and

a bus or a van down the street just ready to release the beasts. So that, I thought, was

notable. I want to add an editorial note as well. In case people don't remember Laura Walton

before she headed the OFL. She almost led a general strike here in Ontario. She was the

president of the particular education workers that went up against Ford when he used the

notwithstanding clause. And they stirred this province up. They got other unions like OPSU

and JP Hornick, who was also at the emergency rally to stand in solidarity and walk on Wildcat.

strike. And this is this is a promising development in terms of the Ontario Federation of Labor.

I mean, you could criticize the demonstrative nature of union rallies, like the need to brand

it and remind everyone what union you are. And, you know, some of that, I think, is not in

great taste. But the notion that labor leaders would quite explicitly say that they would

stand between police and students should they try to move in on them is extraordinary. Yeah.

And they weren't saying they'll go like that. That they'll write their MP or be really upset

about it. Was clear they're going to put their bodies on the line in between the cops and

the students, which is what you want to see from Labour. I mean they... JP Hornex said

great things. Solidarity is a verb. It requires action, right? And that, you know, student

issues are labor issues. Absolutely. Like we see the parallels, you know, like great stuff.

I'm not going to be too flowery because I do have some, I think, fair criticisms. There

are certain things I would like to see that I didn't see, but I was glad to see. Labour

show up on Monday. At that point, there was no chance in hell that cops are gonna show

up at 8 a.m. that morning to clear the students. And it would have been a, I mean, the night

before, there was a windstorm in Toronto, and I was worried that all the tents were gonna

be blown down, and then it was pouring rain, and it would have been a really horrible day

to try and defend an encampment, really. Worst possible moment to defend an encampment. So

I'm really glad. I appreciate Labour's support there. That's exactly what we've been calling

for, right? Is Labour to show up in solidarity? It was a pretty historic moment. Not that you

would know that from the headlines of major media who were mostly talking about the injunction,

which the OFL did join the injunction to defend intervening status, to defend the students,

which is also nice to see because they can afford. good lawyers and whatnot, unlike UFT lawyers

who defend rapists. You have to clarify what you mean there. The same lawyers that are defending

the University of Toronto have defended the likes of Giangameshi and Harvey Weinstein.

And so it's, yeah, you think they would make better choices. I think overall the University

of Toronto has seriously... mismanaged this because okay, they purposely delayed their

injunction, I'm thinking, to take the wind out of the sails of that emergency rally, so to

speak, instead of having to then go and protect the encampment, people dispersed because there

was a 24-hour delay. And then that hearing again has brought a longer delay that actually puts

it- Two weeks. Almost three, puts it past their convocation almost. We're talking about- near

the end of June. And so one of the main arguments from the University of Toronto and why they

need an injunction is because they need that green space so bad. It's the space that's right

next to their convocation hall. And the judges basically told them with this delay, like that

there is no urgency there. So most of their argument for the injunction altogether will

then rest. on the fact that they're trying to portray it as anti-Semitic, violent, and a

threat to student safety, which is an old narrative that pro-Palestinian activists have been facing

forever, but obviously hyper-intensified at this point. It's not like the university cares

too much about protecting Jewish people, because there was a woman there, Susan Weiss, who...

She had survived the Holocaust. She's an outspoken activist, anti-Zionist. And when she arrived

to speak at the rally, when I said she survived the Holocaust, you can imagine she's quite

old. She's in her mid-80s and required mobility assistance. So they asked the campus security

if they could bring the car closer to help her, to which the security guards said, too bad.

So. In case you're wondering how performative the universities care for Jewish people is,

there's your answer. Back to the injunction though, folks may remember, or maybe not, McGill,

University of McGill tried to get an injunction against the student encampment that is still

going strong there and they failed. So it's not actually very promising the university

will get the injunction and I think Santiago and I have been going back and forth in our

discussions with each other on how this will play out. I'm sort of convinced that police

will eventually move in simply because there's just this really concerted effort to add crime

into the equation. Right? Doug Ford right now has just openly blamed immigrants for shootings

at two Jewish schools in which police have not released any identifying information as to

the shooters. And so on top of that, we're seeing, you know, bullshit arrests happen on the fringes

of the encampments. And, you know, they work hand in hand with certain players to sell that

narrative that it's, you know, just inherently violent. I think eventually they'll create

a situation in which that allow them to move in. I hope I'm wrong, because they still hold

such great potential. I mean, just two weeks ago, however, we did see McMaster student encampment

close up shop. And I don't, you know, you can hear it in my voice. I feel uncomfortable criticizing

activists anytime. You never know people's situation, but you couldn't help but see some of the disappointment

on social media as well from within the community. The students there were promised kind of meetings

in October to discuss the divestment situation and they ended their encampment for that. And

when you get the update that I gave at the beginning of the episode on what is happening in Rafa

and the urgency to think you'd wait till the one year anniversary to even discuss divesting

from those weapons seems like it's not really related to the current genocide at all. Right?

You could say that that's related to the occupation. right, the long standing ongoing violent occupation,

but certainly you can't pretend that those goals were aimed at stopping this current genocide

or in particular this siege on Rafa. So, I mean, that was really disappointing, but I am, I

am buoyed by what I'm seeing in the resolve of the University of Toronto students, that

emergency rally and the students that spoke there in particular. made it clear that they

were not going anywhere. Like, disclose, divest, we will not stop, we will not rest. Right?

Like, that is their mantra. They know what's going on. They're doing an incredible job.

Like, really, I mean, you could almost write a textbook of what they're doing. They've been

on it. Since they won, I think they've handled everything as if they... Like in such a great

way, they've really controlled things, they've educated and they kept turning back the issue

to what was happening in RAFA during the talk. That was just so needed because some of the

rah my union is so great and stands behind you like that was just repeated so many times.

Like so many times and then with no direct call to action there, right? So when they when we

heard the personal stories like of that. Yeah, no, I was personally inspired by those students

who spoke. I mean, seriously, like, I mean, these are people who are very close to me in

age and I was, you know, I was thinking like, could I, if I was up there speaking, could

I frame everything as eloquently as perfectly as importantly and as crucially as they were?

No, no, fuck no. The unions is great, but the students stole the show. I was incredibly moved

by everything that they were saying. And I just couldn't help thinking, like, I would be, like,

if I was there every day for four weeks, I'd be so fucking exhausted by now. And the fact

that they're this far, and they were able to communicate the way that they were doing was

incredible. But you would also be surrounded by incredible people. You would not be doing

that alone. Right, that's one thing I think is so clear when you talk to everyone involved,

like heavily involved. We've had them on the show, is they really feel like everyone around

them is doing everything they can. And so I think that energy that people are continuing

to bring to these actions and to their work is helping people get through it. Because like...

Santiago said, like, there were people up there talking about losing 40 plus members of their

family in a single strike, and then it only got worse from there. And then they belong

to an institution that is completely complicit in this genocide and then is demonizing and

criminalizing them for trying to stop the slaughters of their family. I did appreciate when Sid

Ryan got up there. He was one of the last speakers at the emergency rally there, and he pressed

that point that resistance is permissible and expected. He called what happened in Ireland

the Irish Intifada and kept reminding people, or rather, he asked the question that we should

continually to ask why. Trudeau can stand up there and say he defends Israel's right, that

he supports Israel's right to defend itself. But yet it is so taboo and draws such scorn

if you say the same about Palestine, that they too have the right to defend themselves. Because

when we say that here in Canada, when we say they have the right to defend themselves, that

means millions of aid in weapons and trade and whatnot. And so There's real meaning to that

statement, but it just simply doesn't apply to Palestinians or people trying to stop what's

happening. So you know, Jolie comes out and she condemns the strikes in Ra'afah with one

hand and then again tries to shut down these protests with the other. You mentioned someone

who said that they've lost over 40 members of their family. I want to take a moment because

their speech, they're a healthcare worker. Part of the healthcare worker lines for Palestine

who works at UFT. Basel Baud. Their speech was incredibly powerful and I just want to share

a little bit about their experience. They mentioned about how they've lost 44 members of their

family. One of one part of his family was Dr. Omar Farwana. who was the Dean of Medicine

at the Islamic University of Gaza, who was killed with their wife, their children and their grandchildren,

including a 17-day-old infant, who was the cousin of Basel. And I think Basel put it well. He

was talking about the inactions of the medical... the silence from the medical community, who,

in his words, do not give one word for those who do not take life, but give it. then I only

have one word for them, shame. I can't fathom that. I can't fathom the suffering that he

has gone through. And that was what you got from there. Like, you know, people can talk

about, and you'll hear the narratives, right? They're trying to frame these, the encampment

as an exclusionary space, as a violent space, right? There's the violence. We can see the

violence. We know where the violence is, but they're not concerned about that violence.

Right? Like that's the thing. That's the hypocrisy here. Like I'm out here listening to what they're

saying. It's affecting me deeply. Meanwhile, the president of U of T, he won't meet with

these students at all. He's avoiding them. You know, uh, He will go to the legislature and

talk about antisemitism though. He has time for that.

who has been a spokesperson there every day for the past four weeks, I mean, absolute fucking

bad ass. They put it, well, it can't be because they do not know where we are because we have

been here the whole time, right? But you know what they will do? They'll host press conferences

and then they'll exclude even their own student journalists from the varsity, the UFT student

paper from attending, but they won't talk to the students. This is why the encampment cannot.

And this is why it's important to show up for it. And I know, look, I know a lot of our listeners

are in Toronto. There's a chance here in the coming days that we hear the call, that we

need to show up. You don't, look, if you're uncomfortable putting your body on the line,

show up with a camera and be there. Be there as a presence if you can. If you can do it,

please be there. If folks go to OccupyUofT's Instagram, I will link it in the show notes.

They have a link tree there. You can join their Telegram Messenger. That's where they put out

updates and community callouts. This is a great tactic for these encampments to be able to

engage the wider public who can't camp overnight. You talked about hypocrisy and I can't talk

about the emergency rally. without ranting a little bit about the fact that the Ontario

NDP were allowed to take the mic there. And I don't know who the fuck invited them and

I don't care. I don't think it was the students that invited them from what I know of the students.

No, it sounds like it was the steelworkers probably. Oh, that would not surprise me. I love unions.

But if anybody knows anything, the steelworkers in the Ontario NDP or the NDP in general, I

mean, they walk step in step. Their staff are like the same. It's... It's a little bit of

a red flag for me when they get up to the mic and they have Jamie West, who is the labor

critic for the Ontario NDP standing there in his bright orange windbreaker, not a Palestinian

piece of regalia on him, right? Not even a watermelon pin that Jagmeet so bravely wears now. Okay?

He couldn't even put that on. He's standing there with his windbreaker. And I say to Santiago,

I don't know what I'm going to do if he takes the mic. He better not take the fucking mic

because I won't be able to control myself. And I was not, I was not. I'm glad you didn't,

I'm glad you didn't. I snicker-snackered and I made a few call-outs while he was speaking,

but I didn't want to disrupt an event that wasn't mine. But then I thought, oh, well, that doesn't

stop other people. You know what I mean? Like I can't talk about disrupt. Anyway, there's

not a lot of thought that goes through my head. Rage kind of takes over, right? Like I was

shaking, I couldn't hold my phone steady. And I just asked him when he walked away from the

mic, like, where the fuck were you when Sarah Jemma needed you? Because people, let me tell

you that this man got up at the mic and he had the nerve to say that he knew solidarity was

a verb as well. He said he knew that it was super important to stand with people even when

it was hard. The fuck you do, buddy. The fuck you do. And it was so funny watching this guy's

body language. because what a fucking liar. Like everyone else brought passion, care, like

everyone else felt it. And this guy looked like someone was holding a gun to his head to be

up there. To be fair, okay, I made sure to make hard eye contact with this man the entire time,

shaking my head. And because Santiago's got a press pass, like I'm right front and center

with the media with really nobody in front of me. He saw. I was angry with him. He probably

saw me glaring at him before he ever took the fucking stage. I was not happy he was there.

And obviously socialist action was up at the front because you can't miss their 10 foot

banner. And they have qualms, I'm sure it was well. So I heard Barry and a few other folks

chirp in a way. So he absolutely, he was not getting the same reception. So students came

out and we looked like we were ready to die for them, right? And nodding along and cheering.

the ONDP gets up in there, I imagine it was just daggers all around. I couldn't be the

only person looking at him going, what the fuck are you doing here? You have some nerve. And

I'll tell you, at the very end of his speech, when we talk about putting our bodies on the

line and all of that, he gets up there and he can't even say the words that the Ontario NDP

stands with these students, not in their stand against genocide, not in their point of divestment.

and not even if they are attacked by police, right? Raiding their peaceful protest. No,

no, he cannot tell you that party stands with you. He just repeats the line we've already

heard about eight times by this point, that labor stands with you. He's not even a union

employee anymore. Right, he's just the labor critic. And... But the hypocrisy there was

just so glaring. So you know, I apologize to anybody who threw that event. I think Spring

Magazine had a lot to do with it. I don't know if you folks invited him, but fucking don't.

Please don't do that. Please don't legitimize these politicians who have done less than fuck

all or more than fuck all because they've done harm, whatever that would be. Like they left

Sarah Jama standing alone. They demonize folks right from October. Like fuck them. They don't

We didn't add anything to the rally. You only gave him cred. Yeah, no. But then you didn't,

because he looked stupid. And thankfully, you know, people called him out on it, right? As

as he finished his speech, he was booed away with calls to reinstate Sarah Jamma that were

echoed by one of the students who was acting as master of ceremonies. That's right. The

MC, the crowd was chanting, reinstate Sarah Jamma and She totally encouraged that. I was

like, well, she didn't invite him. Yeah. So, you know, that's what I felt a little more

justified. They got it. You know, they got it. You know, and this is the thing, like we hold,

quote unquote, our own accountable, right? Like we're not out here, you know. We like that

is what you want to see. You want to see these fucking some of us do fake ass. Motherfucker.

Get booed off stage like they deserve. So shout out to them. That was great. And I only did

it because Santiago couldn't do it with his press pass on. It's like he's gotta pretend

like he's as neutral as possible, which is kind of frustrating standing next to you when you're

playing that role because you're like, you know, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you yelling?

And they're like, oh yeah, okay, yeah. I was like, but the gig is up, like I was holding

your umbrella. But I want to talk before we sign off, because the most important part is

like the potential these hold. And I think simply occupying the grass is where they're at now,

but they're going to have to need to escalate, especially if you look at the University of

Toronto and the fact that they're not negotiating and you need to get what you need to get and,

and The folks at McGill, one thing that they're doing successfully is pressuring people to

boycott the campus. So students might not be in session. Well, they are, their summer school,

but it's like... How much smaller? It's a skeleton crew. Yeah. And but what the university does

do a lot of is hold events, right? Teaching events, conventions. I mean, they rent out

their space for all sorts of things during the summer. And so they're asking people not to

enter the space, like not to use the campus to boycott them. And I saw Fernwood Publishing,

who have been donating books to the encampments. So if encampments reach out to them, they will

send you a whole bunch of books for your library. But they have declared their solidarity and

have pulled out an event, I guess a publishing event that was scheduled there. So I think

that's another way that students can start to hit the purse strings. of these universities

to increase the pressure on them, right? Like, let's say they can live without that piece

of grass forevermore. What else are you going to do? So that's one. Yeah, I want to put out

some requests, I guess. And my first one goes out to Fred Hahn, president of CUPE Ontario,

because, you know, look, I'm great like Fred Hahn. He's been doing great stuff. I don't,

I appreciate Fred Hahn. But one thing, you know, he mentioned about how the biggest union in

terms of faculty and staff at the University of Toronto is CUPE. Over 50% of the university

are CUPE members, right? And one thing that I guess was absent for me in terms of a call,

because he mentioned about how Laura led an illegal strike. to protect the healthcare workers,

right? And one thing I wanna hear him say it, and I think it would be powerful because we're

right now worried about the cops coming in, about this and that, is if the cops come in,

CUPI needs to go on strike. The university does not get to continue functioning if the cops

move in. That's something I wanna see CUPI doing. That is, put your bodies on the line. Yes,

great stuff. But at the end of the day, If the university cannot function, that is maximum

pressure on them. They need to function. So, and, and Kupi holds that power. So that's something

I want to see. And I say that with love to Fred. I say that in solidarity with Fred. But that

is exactly what he needs to be doing right now. I think if we know Fred and we kind of do,

he would want nothing more than that. And there is precedent for this because in the United

States, at UCLA, we talked about the violent police action there. I hope I'm getting the

university right. Either way, all of the unions on that campus issued a strike notice and they

attempted to legitimize it. So rather than just like going on a wildcat strike because of the

unsafe working conditions that then existed with the use of such police violence. And it's

justified, there's faculty here too, it's not just students. Like it's CUPE members who will

be attacked by the police. So like they have that justification if they need it. It'll be

CUPE members fucking dismantling the encampment, right? Once the police haul them out of there,

who do you think will be tasked with cleaning up the tents and the barricades and all of

that? It will actually be just like it was at Occupy. It'll be CUPE members forced to do

that. And that would horrify Fred. We know him, there's limits within what's possible, but

I think Fred has been pushing these boundaries, and just today he was re-elected at QP's convention

as their president. So as much as people come out and try to say like, oh this isn't what

Union's for and he doesn't represent me, well you don't really represent your Union then

because he keeps winning those votes, bitches. And he's been fucking slandered in the press.

The post, the sun, like they've been going after Fred for months. Like Fred- Years, but yes.

Years, but like in the last few months, the attacks against Fred have been, they've definitely

increased a drastic amount. Like I can't imagine a thick skin. And like I said, this comes from

a place of like knowing what Fred's about, knowing that this is something that like he would want

to do. And this is us saying like- Please do that. We give you the green light, Fred. Not

that he listens to us, but it comes out of love. It comes out of this is the thing that will

shut them the fuck down. And because we're talking options, right? And it's like, OK, it'd be

good to see the students withholding tuition. That would be nice to see. Returning students.

I know where you put a call up for first-year students to start fucking around and their

spaces will just be taken because a lot of people are not being accepted into university out

of high school. And so... Yeah, like it's too big a sacrifice for them. They're thinking

this is my whole fucking future and it won't impact him. It's not so much like the risk

to students because people are risking life and limb. It's that like the university will

be able to replace them. You can't replace third, fourth year students as easily, right? They're

deep into the program. If they fill the schedule up and then don't pay, you're in trouble. But

at the end of the day, the most crucial thing is time here, right? And there's no room to

wait until September, right? Which is why. When you think about like, what is the most powerful

action that can be taken right now? It's the workers of the university saying no. And there's

a lot of precedent here. I mean, one of the faculty members who was speaking at the rally

spoke about how, and she was Jewish, she was saying about how the biggest threat to her

was being told she couldn't give academic speeches at the encampment. without risk of her job.

Right? You mean she couldn't do the teachings? Yeah, the teachings. Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

yeah. Exactly. Right? Because I learned from her speech there, so I don't know if it was

academic by definition, but I did some learning. Yeah. I mean, this is the shit that tenure

was created for, right? To protect. Like, you want to talk threats to academic freedom, it's

the university censoring their faculty, many of who, like... more than aware, many of who

have dedicated their lives to studying these issues. Right? You can tell them that they're

wrong, that they don't understand it. You fuck faces.

I'm sorry. I love when you go off the rails like that. I mean, we're there. But one of

the things, you know, you can't wait till September. So what universities are doing right now is

convocation. So for those who've never gone through convocation, I mean, it's weeks of

this shit. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of students and their parents all get up, everyone

has their cell phone on, and they run through all these names and they're in the great halls.

And so if you're watching, if you're on TikTok or Instagram, I'm sure you've seen the United

States going through convocation and they are being seriously disrupted. Now they're not

stopping. But, you know, when the university president gets up there, or for fuck's sake,

Jerry Seinfeld was at one of the universities giving their speech. And so you can only imagine

the reception he got. And then people are walking out en masse, they're holding up their flags,

they're chanting on the way out. I mean, it's something. But one of the interesting things

that I saw in the article talking about the injunction at the University of Toronto was

that the protesters... Wait. So the university is trying to frame like it's a threat to convocation.

Amongst other things and one of the responses to that from the protesters was like hey We're

like just on the grass outside your convocation hall You haven't used that piece of grass in

quite some time. You've gone without it before There's no way that is a disruption to your

convocation and a flag kind of went up for me and I was like Are you guys promising not to

disrupt their configation? Because if I was on the grass with a couple hundred people around

a hall and looking for ways to shut the university down, I don't know, I'd be contemplating it.

But then again, like, do you take students graduation day away from them? But I it's that balance,

right? We talked about that the narrative, like I actually don't give a fuck about somebody

missing their graduation when there's a genocide going on. Like, there's just so many things

that I can't prioritize at all. Like it was something silly today. Like. someone talking

about, oh, we don't mow our grass in May. And what will the neighbors think? Because I don't,

anyway. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck what the neighbors think. There's a goddamn genocide

going on. Find priorities, man. Like, I literally don't care. And so like, I don't really care

if someone doesn't get a picture with their diploma and their hat and gown. I went through

it and I hated it. I thought it was kind of awkward. I have like one photo I like from

it. So if you compare that to... genocide and the fact that all those universities are gone

so like none of those kids will be graduating none of them will even be going back next year

the year after that or the year after that so I would say disrupt the shit out of those convocations

I mean like shut them down like make it impossible for anyone to park anywhere on that campus

make it so they have to walk through the hardest picket lines if those unions want to like put

their bodies like Also, can you help escalate the situation before it gets there? Like a

strike after a police action would be great, like expected. You know, if you couldn't get

there to physically protect them, let's say middle of the night, the call doesn't go out

in time. So then you make a big stink afterwards. But like that's been done before. That's been

that could be a spark that does something else. But yeah, let's have me. Me. I hate the pomp

and ceremony of these things. What convocation or? Yeah. Yeah, I think they're representative

of exactly what I'm talking about when I say that these universities are these institutions

that are cornerstones of capitalism, right? And like I get how it's important, right? Like,

it's important to families and the students. But you know, I feel like I can speak with

a certain level of authority here as a graduating student who just went through eight years of

post-secondary when I say fuck that shit, because it's not real. And for me, I hate things that

celebrate things that... I hate when things are so polarized to when it's a, you know,

if you were to fail universities, you're a failure in the eyes of society, but it's also a huge

accomplishment to graduate. Like, I don't know, I hate that duality of it, right? Because it

doesn't represent somebody who came out of here more knowledge-ful necessarily, right? I've

known so many students who have gone to post-secondary, who haven't graduated, and who... When they

left, they left knowing more than a lot of the students who made it to the finish line. And

that's not to disrespect the students who made it to the finish line. Good on you. It's a

whole lot of hard work. But, it's just this... The way that they do it feels wrong to me.

The way that these ceremonies function feels... It doesn't feel like a genuine celebration

of students' accomplishments. It feels like a fucking advertisement for these institutions

to tell people, don't you want this approval? Don't you want us to tell you did a good job?

You know? And fuck you. Why do you get to decide what a good job is? I'll tell you what a good

job is. The students in those encampments, they're doing a good job. And the amount of learning

that they're doing there probably far exceeds what they've done inside the walls of the institution.

Because I remember as organizing, as a university student, that's where I really learned like...

some stuff, like I've got all kinds of facts and I understand different theories of politics

and this and that, that do come in handy to explain things and whatnot. But the practical

knowledge that I gained was definitely outside the classroom, right? It was with comrades,

it was trial and error, and it was going up against the same institutions we were paying,

which felt really shitty. That's what they... You're paying thousands. You've learned what

you need to learn about society, about the way that the world works while you're in your time

at the university. You won't give a shit about these ceremonies and you'll be there disrupting

it with everyone else. I think so. That's what I take on it. I think so. I think, you know,

like, and you have to not balance so much what the outward perception will be. You know, the

parents that will be online crying about the fact that their kid didn't get a graduation,

photo taken in the ideal spot or whatever it is. I mean, that... you can't let that stop

you from your mission, right? Like there's always gonna be those calculations to do about how's

this gonna be perceived by X, Y, and Zed? And at this point I say like, fuck X, Y, and Zed.

Like just keep plowing ahead and, you know, cause there always be detractors from like

the smallest tiny action you do to the most disruptive one. It'll be the same people out

there bitching and moaning about it being too much or being ineffective and they don't know.

Like one of the points that was made at the emergency rally was that you don't often know

when you're making history in the moment, right? That's something that happens upon reflection,

upon how history turns out, right? How those actions played out long-term, but there's no

doubt that these students in these encampments, which is sparked by something that we should

have never seen, you know, that itself has been transformative for the world's population.

These encampments are transformative for the students and everyone experiencing them. And

I hopefully it changes the way in which universities think that they can interact with their student

populations, right? So I'm so proud of what they've done and I'm here to defend them.