Here.

Good morning, and thank you for joining real life with Mike and Jason.

I'm Jason and joined, as always, is Pastor Mike.

Pastor Mike, good morning.

Good morning, Jason.

Good to be here with you.

Last week, we discussed the right to life and a woman's right to choose, really emphasizing the importance of voting for candidates that advocate for justice.

We titled it voices for the voiceless because, well, unborn babies don't have a voice.

And so that's what we talked about last week, being their voice.

And doing that through voting is one of the ways that we can be that voice.

And today we're going to look specifically at another topic that if you could pick probably two topics that are the most hotly debated and hotly discussed, it would be both the stance on abortion and issues around the LGBTQ community.

So today, that's what our discussion is in this episode, focusing on transgenderism and gender identity as well as sexual orientation.

So we're going to look at some societal perspectives and examine, really and most importantly, what does the Bible say about these topics?

They're both very emotionally charged issues for a lot of people, people that, you know, would say that they're struggling with how they identify and asking questions, you know, who are they?

You know, not just not feeling right wherever they're at.

And fortunately, this is something that God speaks very clearly about.

And, you know, we live in a society today where even from the pulpit, you have people trying to redefine God's word, redefine what the Bible says on these topics.

So today, hopefully, we add some clarity to that, but not because it's your opinion or my opinion, but we're going to talk about what does God's word say about it.

But it also, you know, this isn't going to be an exclusive kind of dive into the LGBTQ culture and stance, but really more of an overview specifically around how it relates to justice and voting this year.

So I think that it's important to start out to understand what do we mean by some of these words.

So kind of defining terms, if you will, specifically around sexual orientation and gender identity.

So just looking up, and these are definitions that you can just pull off the Internet, right?

Like if you go to Webster or Oxford Dictionary.

So.

But I think it's important to understand that what does culture, what does society mean when they say sexual orientation or gender identity?

So I wanted to start there looking at sexual orientation.

It's a term used to describe a person's pattern of attraction and identity based on their gender of the people they are attracted to.

So they think about it as who are they sexually attracted to?

And this could be, you know, male, female.

This could be male, male, female, female.

It could be a wide variety of identities that people would claim.

But it's important to note that this is really about sexual attraction, whereas gender, gender identity, the second little word here is what a person believes their gender is.

And really it's used in context when it contrasts with how they were born or what sex registered for them at birth.

So when they believe that, it differs.

You know, you were born a man, but now you don't think you're a man, you're something else.

That would be your gender identity.

And this is, again, the world's definition today of those two topics.

So I think that's important to start out with so our listeners can understand what do we mean by those two words.

So that's specifically what, how the world would define that today.

And so it used to be that gender identity was what you were born with.

So again, if I was born a male, then that's what I am, a male.

And today, the argument is that the two are not related.

And the problem, I think, with unlinking the two is that it becomes subjective.

In essence, you are who you define yourself as.

And on top of this, it's not consistent.

It's ever changing, and it's based on feelings in the moment.

So how one person might feel now or how they might identify now might change over time.

So that's kind of what today's culture, what you're seeing.

And that's why there's, I mean, how many different gender, just in gender identities alone, how many different identities do people claim there are now?

Because it used to be two and then it grew to three and then ten.

And I think the current list is 84, based on what I could see.

And so in today's culture, there's a growing acceptance and normalization of whether it's sexual orientation or gender identities.

And where do we see these most prominently?

I think you would agree with me that we see these most prominently in media.

We see them on social media.

And it goes even further than that.

We see them in schools.

We see them, you know, in movies, on tv shows.

I mean, it's hard anymore today, and I don't really watch tv much anymore at all.

But just think about movies that have come out in the last, probably four years.

You know, our tv shows, it's widely visible even in those formats.

So it's not just in one area.

I think that we're seeing this.

We're seeing it everywhere.

And so, you know, because society often encourages individuals to define their own identity based on their personal feelings, you know, we're going to see a trend based on that kind of outlook.

You know, I was looking at some statistics.

We were talking about this earlier silent generation.

This would be anybody born before 1946.

Of those people, how many would identify with the LGBTQ community?

Meaning that they believe that they fit in those categories.

And that was only about 1% of the population.

Now, the baby boomers, through the generation who came after that, it doubled.

It went to 2%.

And those are people born between 46 and roughly about 64.

Generation X and next generation, it doubled again to 4%.

Millennials we see at 10%.

Generation Z has gone up even more at about 25% now.

So it's dramatically, exponentially increasing, doubling to way more than doubling.

So.

And I think the question is why?

Why do you see that?

And I think the answer is, well, because it's taught so broadly in culture.

It's not just, you know, parents teaching children.

It's the media pushing this narrative of this agenda.

It's higher education pushing this narrative and this agenda.

It's, you know, elementary education, high school education, movies, tv shows, it's.

It's really everywhere.

Even with corporate branding, you see it as well.

And I think that it's important to understand the cost of constant indoctrination of a viewpoint in every aspect of life.

And we see that really here in the numbers with each generation identifying.

And really what was the change?

And maybe you can speak to this just real quick.

We see it go from 1% and it start doubling in the fifties and sixties and then just rapidly explode from there.

I mean, do you think there's a correlation between that time period and where we're at today?

Think of the kind of the free love mentality that really started in the sixties and seventies.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't want to oversimplify it, but, you know, guys, just listening to what you're saying, it's, you know, just as a society, as we've moved away from goddess.

Yeah, there you go.

It's, you know, I mean, all bets are off.

I mean, gosh, then, you know, everything's subjective.

Like when you were talking about the number of genders.

Right?

I mean, where did we get to?

Where did two come from?

You know, from the word of God, correct.

Yep.

So it's really an attack against God.

And then, you know, I was kiddingly in my mind, as you were saying, that I go, oh, so, so you can tell, you know, if you, the school you're going to, you know, is like a west coast school or an Ivy League school, maybe it'll be by the total number of genders that you have.

Like, you know, I've seen some schools, like you said, would you say 80 something genders?

And I saw one report said there one, one, you know, like Ivy League school is up to like 274.

Like, that's the goal of the classes, to find a, you know, take a, you know, it's a gender search know class.

You know, that's what you do your whole semester is finding new genders, you know, and you go, and I guess that's higher education.

Yeah, exactly.

And then that's my point is it's no, there's even no consistency or standard there.

It's very completely subjective and, you know.

Well, there's no absolutes.

There's no absolutes.

Yeah.

Oh, there you go.

And so everything really can be educational.

And just because something's educational doesn't mean that it's a good education, but it's teaching something.

And again, we see that in every aspect.

It's not just school.

You know, I'm reminded of Colossians two eight that says to not let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high sounding nonsense that comes from human thinking of the spiritual powers of this world rather than from Christ.

And again, in Romans twelve two, don't copy the behaviors and the customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.

I, you know, like you said, really the issue started when people started turning away from God.

But it's not a new issue.

This is an issue that's thousands of years old, all the way back from the very beginning, you know, and on the same idea that everything can be an education, whether it's a good or bad, I'm reminded of a quote that I think really kind of perfectly summarizes where we're at, especially as it relates to higher education.

It says, we cannot continue to send our children to Caesar for their education and be surprised when they come home.

Romans.

And so I think that quote perfectly summarizes why we're seeing the numbers the way they are, because this is what's become normal.

This is what's become accepted.

And it's done in the name of enlightenment and progress, when actually it's quite the opposite.

So with that said, it seems like today we live in a world where identity is subjective, and it's kind of what you, what you feel and what you make of it in the time of life that you're in.

Does the Bible talk about it?

Does God have anything to say on the topic of identity?

Yeah, most definitely.

I mean, the book of Genesis goes back to creation.

That's the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in it.

And then ultimately mankind.

And God answers that question, know immediately, you know, in Genesis chapter one, you know, when he says, you know, let us make man in our image, in the image of God, he created them, male and female.

There we have the two genders.

God created them.

And God placed limitations with on it as well.

He didn't expand that.

It's never been expanded.

It was limited to his design, his desire, and that was to create man and woman in.

And that's the most important thing in the image of God.

So we ultimately, by God's design, are the truest expression of himself.

We think of Christ Jesus coming into the world when God took on human flesh.

So I think very clearly all the way back, Genesis chapter one, you find the answer.

So would you say then that to really find our identity, to understand what our identity really is that can't be found apart from who God says we are?

No, it's virtually impossible.

I'm thinking of a quote by Aw Tozer.

It says, what comes into our minds when we think about Goddess is the most important thing about us.

And I'm reminded because Colossians chapter one, when you think about Genesis, that we were created in the image of God.

Well, Paul takes it forward to make that connection with Christ, Jesus himself, and as Jesus being the one who creates.

And he said in Colossians 115, he said, jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

And I love what it says in verse 16.

It says, for by him speaking of Jesus, it says, all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

All things that were created through him and they were created for him, and he is before all things.

And in him all things consist.

So there's the connection then to what we would say biblical Christianity, you know, Jesus, not just a belief in God or a God or anything else, that there's the connection.

Our connection is to Jesus Christ himself.

When you pose the question to me, you know, was finding, you know, our identity.

And the word specifically was in Christ.

And I think of, you know, the beauty of what it is to become a Christian or a believer.

You know, second corinthians 517, is my favorite verse in all the Bible.

It says if a person is in Christ, they are a new creation.

Old things have passed away, and beholden, all things have become new, you know?

So our identity, you know, as human beings, is directly connected to the person of Jesus Christ.

And without knowing Jesus Christ, then as you study your Bible, it is virtually impossible to know yourself.

Yeah, amen.

And I think that's important that we start there with identity, because, I mean, again, we live in a society that says identity is subjective.

And so trying to find your identity in anything other than what your creator, what our creator, what God says and who we are in him is going to lead to areas that really don't have good outcomes.

Well, it's idolatry.

It's idolatry.

If we're not worshiping God for who he is, then we have to displace God with something else.

And now society will say, well, no, it is a good thing.

See, these people feel so much more better.

They feel affirmed.

But then you look at statistics like, and this is very, very sad, and I don't mean it's not to make light of it at all, but to call it out.

You look at the statistics of suicidal ideation in the community and it doesn't paint a good picture.

But the reason is, and it's not because acceptance.

We live in a culture that, I mean, it's accepted everywhere, whether it's where you go, whether it's higher education, whether it's social media, whether it's news, whether it's politics, it's not an issue of acceptance.

The issue is because we're rebelling.

It's a rebellion against our creator, against God.

Yeah.

And I think just on top of that, I don't have.

I wish I had thought of that.

I'd have brought it.

The statistics on, like, life expectancy, you know, the average, you know, scripture says, you know, the person lives to be 70, 80 years old, you know, at best.

And then you look at non religious, you know, I'm talking about sociology, psychology, and you look at the statistics for life expectancy of the LGBQT plus community.

It was something like, for a homosexual male, it was like 39 years of age.

And you go, that's less than half.

And you go, what would cause that?

You know?

And you go, because God came in such a way that when we function within created order and created design, there's a blessing.

We serve a blessing.

God, he wants to bless our life.

He wants us to experience peace.

Right.

The very first thing you hear the angels say when they come on the scene, Jesus, you know, peace, shalom.

You know, and so it always reminds me of that bumper sticker, you know, you've heard me share this a lot.

You know, that back in the eighties, it was.

I saw it on so many cars.

It said, know, kno, peace, no God, no peace.

And so, so much of that, you know, that, again, they're trying to find life without God, and it's.

It's impossible.

I mean, it, you know, it.

You can fake it for a while, you know, sin, the Bible says, is pleasurable for a season, but the end result of it is death.

Amen.

And so, understanding that confusion with identity then leads to our next topic, into transgenderism and gender issues.

So, gender dysphoria, I want to kind of define that dysphoria and transgenderism really go hand in hand.

So, looking at the definition of gender dysphoria, it says, definitionally, at least, a state of severe distress or unhappiness caused by feeling that one's gender identity does nothing match that person's sex registered to them at birth.

So, you know, being born a male and then feeling like you are something else, whether it's a woman or whether it's one of the 200 plus, you know, identities that you were talking out.

And, you know, and it's interesting that this really was considered a mental health crisis issue until very recently.

I mean, we see the World Health Organization either redefined it or completely dropped the language, and we've seen that here in the United States.

I was looking at some data that looks at diagnosis of gender dysphoria, specifically in the United States and specifically with children from the ages of six to 17.

And I found something very interesting.

In 2017, there was about 15, a little over 15,000 children between that age group that was diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

And in 2018, it went up about 3000 to about 18,000.

2019 went up another 3000, 2020, up another 3000, and then 2021, something happened, and I'll just leave that to the audience to kind of think through.

But it didn't go up 3000.

It went up 20,000 kids diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 2021.

And I don't have 2022 or 2023 numbers.

I wasn't able to find those.

And, you know, another study stated that between 2019 and 2023, that overdose 14,000 children.

So this is children 17 and under receive gender affirming care.

And that would be either puberty blockers or, you know, anything that would actually start altering.

So gender affirming care.

And so my question to you then, Mike, is, is this impacting children today?

And if so, what is the impact?

It's a great question, you know, and I think with regard to children in particular, you know, we have to think about maturity versus immaturity.

Right.

And so you take just some basic things.

You go, at least this is how it's been that a child can't make a decision for themselves, you know, with regard to, you know, a medical procedure, you know, can't get a tattoo.

Yeah.

Can't get even tattoos.

Simple things, right?

Age of 18, right?

Voting, you know, drinking, all these type of things, you know?

But now we live in a world that just says, you know, basically, if your child then decides, you know, at the age of five or six, that they don't want to be, you know, what they were created at birth to be, their biological, you know, sex, that they could literally say, you know, I tell my teacher, and my teacher doesn't even have to communicate with my parents.

And you go, so we have violations of personhood and parenting and family, all these things that God designed.

And he speaks very clearly, too.

People want to claim, well, God doesn't say anything about transgender.

And you go, no, not specifically, but he speaks about everything generally.

And if you look at things like family and family structure, honor thy father and mother.

You go, within the scope of that context.

I mean, it covers every facet of our beings.

I think when we think about, you know, children in particular.

I saw this quote I put in my notes here.

It says, the psychological condition where a person feels like their personal identity does not match their anatomical sex is called gender dysphoria.

And there is a strong push in our culture to agree with the transgendered movement that when one's gender defined as their feelings of being male or female conflicts with the biological markers of maleness or femaleness, the feelings are determinative.

And you go, man, how dangerous is that with children?

Because our children are completely motivated by feelings or as immature adults.

It doesn't even put an age on it, you know, per se.

So to think that, you know, your children aren't going to have moments in time where they're confused about who they are as they're developing, because by definition, you know, the word immaturity is the state or the quality.

I love this.

Of being immature or not fully developed.

I love this unripeness or incompleteness, you know?

And so we get that.

Like I said, the law of our land knows that.

So children are protected at least until the age of 18.

And some today, 30 and 40 year olds need to be protected as well.

But 18 is the established.

And so I think immediately.

Proverbs three, five and six, probably the most well known, most quoted proverb in the Bible.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart.

Do not depend on what your own understanding, your feelings, your emotions, right?

It says, but seek his will in all you do and he will show you which path to take.

And so, yeah, I think, you know, our children are, what, at risk today because they're, you know, people say it all the time.

They're our future, right?

So if we can wipe out our children, what have we done?

We were just talking about that with populations, right?

China had to increase.

You know, they used to, the law was you could only have one child.

And that's why abortion was so high.

You shared it last week.

It was like, what was it, 300 and something million.

Yeah, 300.

Over 300 million abortions.

And you go, why not alone, because.

They wanted a male baby for posterity.

And then they figured out, wait, we're on a decline here.

We need some females, you know, in this.

And you go, okay, so now you can have two babies, right?

And so they are our future.

And you go, but here's the danger again, you know, with regard, our children are under attack because our children are being brought into and raised in a world without God.

Let me ask you this, and maybe this will help somebody just kind of connect it, and we'll just do a little pretend here.

Well, maybe it's not pretending.

We'll see how this ends.

And you can just tell me your thought on this just from a basic level.

So I've got a, you know, I've got twins.

And, you know, my son loves right now.

He loves Spider Mandev.

Loves Spider man.

And, you know, he's fascinated by it.

He likes pretending.

He runs around the house, you know, shooting his little pretend webs with his, with his hands.

And so, you know, I'm thinking if just with this rationale, isn't a parent, that I love my kids, right, I want to nurture and encourage him and I want him to be all that he wants to be.

So maybe I didn't consider the position that he really was Spider man.

And so, you know, maybe I should affirm to him that, you know, buddy, maybe you really are Spider man.

And you know what?

But beyond that, you know, Mike, I really think that if you love me as your friend and my son, that I think you need to call him Spider man.

And then just, just because I love him.

Right.

I want him to just be affirmed in what he believes.

And, you know, and I've heard there's even surgeries that he can have that will help him identify more with, with Spider Man.

I think you see, again, the way that I'm going with this is you would look at me and say that you're.

You're insane.

And not only that, but you might be a danger to your child because, well, I can just tell you right now that he's not into Spider man as much as he was six months ago.

Right.

So now what happens in a year from now when he's like, dad, not really my thing anymore.

Well, sorry.

You're already altered.

Yeah.

It's just lunacy.

But that's what's happening with our children today.

And in some regards, that's what's on the ballot box.

I think this November, you know, not the only topic, but it's one of the issues that divides our political parties in this country.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, a lot of that just, you think about, biblically speaking, absolutes.

You know, when you start removing the absolutes, I mean, you're not.

You're not creating a greater sense of security or freedom, you know, for our children.

It creates fear.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, your kids want to know that the house is locked at night.

You know, we think of border protection.

You know, they will, you know, my wife will check all the doors, you know, and everything else.

I mean, we want security.

And we see what happens when you don't have security, you know, simple things.

And so parents and the ability in the lives of our children to establish perimeters, and you go, but where do those perimeters come from?

Is it subjective, like you said, that you just go, you know, Orlando, do we really need absolutes?

And God has made that very clear, you know, that his word isn't subjective.

You know, that there are absolutes.

And.

And the more that we trust in those absolutes, the better quality of life that we're going to have.

But that thought that, and it's the attack against God and against humanity is that thought that, you know, we can just govern ourselves, that we can make our own choices.

And those choices, you know, like, what we're saying is, you know, we don't need God.

And though we know what God says, we don't like what God says because it goes against what, you know, I.

Want to do or how I feel.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and this is not, again, to say that, you know, especially if you're listening today and this is a struggle that you have, that that's not a real struggle that you have, that these aren't real emotions that you're having.

That's not at all what we're saying.

But there is an answer in spite of all of that.

So let me ask you this then.

What should, because this is an issue today, and this is an issue that impacts a lot of people, that they're really struggling right now with these, you know, with the thoughts of where they fit in and how they identify.

And while God makes it very clear in his word the answer to that, how should the church then today respond to this issue?

Well, I think the church needs to respond with compassion more than anything else because what we're seeing, you and I, you know, as we look at this, especially with, you know, children, I mean, the same thing with adults, and.

But we see confusion.

Like you said, you go, dysphoria.

People are.

They're confused because they don't know the truth.

You know, Jesus said if you knew the truth and you applied that truth, he said the truth, you would know, and the truth would set you free.

And I, and I think of, you know, when I think of compassion, I go, what a Ydd picture, especially think of things that have to do with sexuality.

I think immediately what comes to mind.

Like the woman at the well there in John four, you know, she was an outcast in her society because of her sexual orientation.

You know, she wasn't a homosexual or transgender.

She was an adulter.

She was a fornicator.

And so the rest of the women, you know, they didn't want anything to do with her.

So she had to go out, you know, at noon, high noon to go get water while the other women went out in the cool of the day because she was, like I said, a social outcast.

So Jesus goes out of his way and he meets her there, and he has compassion upon her and he dignifies her when he calls her woman.

You know, that was a term of dignity, and she was taken back by, like, you know, you a jew, you've dignified me.

You're speaking to me.

You're actually talking to me like I'm a human being.

And he knew everything about her, but he wanted her to get free from that.

I think of the woman caught in adultery, right?

Where was the guy?

They bring the woman, and next thing you know, I mean, here's Jesus addressing her accusers, right?

He says, he bends down, he writes in the sand.

We don't know what he wrote.

Says.

But from oldest to youngest, they all walked away.

And then Jesus looks at her, and she wasn't innocent.

He knew she wasn't innocent, but he looks at her and he says, woman, where are your accusers?

And she says, I have none.

He goes, and I accuse you not.

And you go, how could jesus do that?

And you go, because he knew why he came.

He came to die on the cross for our sin, for her sins, so that she could go free.

And that's what he told her.

He said, you know, go and sin no more because we can do that in Christ.

And so all the things I think that the church, if we're going to be successful in addressing this, is not by beating people up, you know, I mean, I think, you know, the Bible's pretty, pretty clear on this, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, right?

And, you know, the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life, is that we stay focused on the gospel that, you know, and we, I don't know if we even have time to get into that today.

But you know why sex sins are worse than other sins?

And again, it goes back to the way that God created us.

Yes, sexual sins are worse than other sins because they attack our personhood, they attack our identity, who God created us in his image to be and the purposes that we have for our lives.

All that's at stake within sexual sin.

There's a DNA.

Think about this DNA stamp, you know, you sleep with another person.

I mean, to think about that, that their DNA scientists tell us whether it's molecule or, you know, it's with you the rest of your life, and it goes against then, you know, God being one, you know, God is a monotheistic God, right?

Marriage is monotheistic.

The two shall become one.

So when it's plural, you know, then all of a sudden what do you have is you have something that no longer reflects God, no longer honors him as God.

And so it's such a deep subject matter.

Like I said, all we can do in a podcast is touch on the surface of it.

But it's not that God is against happiness or sex in that regard or anything else.

It's he created us for relationships and it undermines the relationship with us and God and us with one another.

And there's an order to that too.

So, no.

So as we close today, thinking about specifically around voting consideration, I think it's important to remember that this again, like last week, you know, this is not a compromise issue politically.

This isn't something because because it impacts children, impacts.

We didn't even get into the impact of, you know, men and women, sports and how that disproportionately obviously impacts women who biologically are different than men.

So it's not a compromise issue.

But we have to, like you said earlier, we have to show love, but it.

That love cannot lead to compromise on biblical principles.

God speaks very clearly of these issues.

He very clearly defined men and women and that our identity can't be separated from him because he who God is, who defines us.

And that's so important to remember.

Anything outside of that is just going to lead to.

Chaos, you know, because everything God does is about bearing fruit.

And, you know, he told Adam and Eve, you know, within regard to their sexuality was, you know, be fruitful and multiply.

And, you know, they were alike, but they were different.

They were unique.

He created them, male and female.

So when you take two that are of the exact kind, it's impossible to be fruitful.

So then even China, a communist country, figured this out, right?

That you had to change your.

Your whole thought process with regard to children being born, because otherwise you're going to go into a negative birth pattern and eventually you'll be completely extinct.

And so there's a lot more to this.

But God is into fruit bearing relationships.

And when you have a relationship that cannot bear fruit, God cannot honor that.

Or support that amenity.

As we close, we have a responsibility to advocate for policies that protect vulnerable populations.

Just like last week with the abortion and just, you know, as this week, especially with our children and decisions that are being made for them today that will impact them for the rest of their lives.

And I'm not talking about leading them to believe something, but physically and chemically altering their bodies.

And so that's our encouragement today, is that when you think about this, in light of voting, vote for policies.

Vote for people that will protect.

Protect our children.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Real Life.

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