My dad carried this poem by Ralph Waldo Emerson in his wallet.

It characterizes success not by how much money we make or the titles that we've earned.

It characterizes success by how we lived.

And I'd like to share it with you before we start this episode.

To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children.

To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends.

To appreciate beauty and to find the beauty in others.

To leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition.

To know that one life has breathed easier because you lived here.

This is to have succeeded.

I always loved this poem and I think in this chapter of our lives in our later years, we're starting to think a little bit more about what our legacy will be, how we will define a successful life, what has our time here been about, and what do we want the remaining time to be about My guest Today, Carol Orsburn, Ph.D.

is a leader in the conscious aging movement and Editor in Chief of Fierce with Age, the Digest of Boomer Wisdom, Inspiration and Spirituality.

She just released a brand new book titled Spiritual Aging Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life.

Everyone needs this book.

Aging isn't just about getting older.

In this episode we will transform our perspective of aging by examining some opportunities and insights for spiritual growth and self compassion.

Welcome to Boomer Banter, the podcast where we have real talk about aging.

Well, my name is Wendy Green and I am your host.

Carol Oarsborne is the author of more than 35 books including the Spirituality of Age with Robert Weber and Older, Wiser, Fiercer as well as popular blogs on Huffington Post and Beliefnet.com she has served on the faculties of Georgetown University, Loyola Marymount University and Pepperdine University.

And as I said, Carol just released her newest book, Spiritual Aging Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life.

She lives with her husband in Madison, Tennessee and Toronto, Ontario and as you listen to this episode really take a moment to think about who would benefit from hearing this discussion.

A friend, a family member, someone who needs this kind of inspiration and then share this episode with them.

They can find the video on the YouTube channel for Boomer Banter or they can listen to the podcast wherever they get their podcasts.

It will be available by tomorrow and they will thank you for your recommendation and I also want to take a moment to ask for your help.

I work a lot of hours and spend considerable expense on putting together the Boomer Banter podcast and I would like to know if you would be willing to add a little support to the work that we're doing.

If you appreciate it, of course.

So you can do a one time support $5 for buy me a coffee or you can join our monthly membership, the Boomer Believer membership for 25amonth where we have two meetings a month.

Go to buymeacoffee.com hey boomer0413 and help us keep this podcast going and sharing the wonderful guests like we have today.

And so with that, please join me in welcoming Carol Orsburn to Boomer Banter.

Thank you, Carol for being here.

Oh gosh, Wendy.

What.

What a bang up.

Start with that poem.

You hit every single point.

I know.

My dad was ahead of his time.

I loved that he carried that poem in his wallet.

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.

What a.

What a legacy right there, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So let's start.

I will be bold and I am 71.

How about letting us know how old you are?

Wow.

I'm 76 and soon in February to turn 77.

And I'm always thinking of myself as older than I am, which is because I believe in older and wiser.

So, you know, I don't have the same.

I've never had the same feeling a lot of people have about being embarrassed or, you know, feeling like they're lesser than as they age.

I.

I love being older.

Go figure.

You're an old soul.

I know.

That's true.

Yeah.

So.

So with that though, what, what, if anything, has surprised you about aging?

Well, I'll tell you.

For starters, I'm completely shocked that I'm publishing this book with a major publisher.

At 76.

I have retired twice.

I mean, big retirements, the kind where you, you know, first I left a full time job and then I left my career as an author about every five to 10 years since I've been in my late 50s.

And this particular publisher, I mean, I guess it's a God thing because I.

They brought out a book of mine with Bob Weber in 2015, then won gold in the national Nautilus Book Awards.

It was big deal, but it was before its time.

I mean, even just 10 years ago was before this issue was any thing anybody was talking about.

And so the same publisher turned me down multiple times.

And so I decided with this book, which I gave to them a couple years ago, I said to them and to myself, if this doesn't get picked up, I'm done with my career.

It's a sign from God.

I'm done.

And nope, they said yes.

And.

And then they Put, you know, major effort behind it.

So, you know, I'm the Grandma Moses of authors, I guess.

It's exciting.

It's exciting.

There's so much meat to this book.

Oh, my goodness.

So we'll have to thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

But before we go too far into that, we talk.

I mean, in the intro, I talked about conscious aging.

Can you describe what that is, please?

Okay.

It's a very broad banner, really, but most of us who are listening to your show probably live through the 60s and 70s and probably remember the consciousness movement.

And many of us were part of women's liberation consciousness racing groups.

I know I was.

It's expanding awareness of self and other, and it's telling more of the truth of reality and becoming more honest with yourself.

And the trick is to be confronted by embracing more of the truth of reality, but staying awake and optimistic.

Ooh, right.

There's the challenge or the opportunity.

Right, Exactly.

I mean, without that, you just get depressed and go under.

So conscious aging, and I would say spiritual aging, which is where I've moved to, is the sort of the cutting edge of conscious aging.

And that's, that's, it's, it's daunting, you know, to be in these times and era, to stay positive and hopeful.

You have to take, I think, a really deep dive beneath the surface manifestations of what's going on in this world.

Yeah, it's not easy, for sure.

It's not easy.

No.

So the title of this was, you know, Aging Spirituality and Self compassion.

And many people that I talk to are afraid of aging and afraid of dying.

And so in your years of study, Carol, have you transformed your perspective on aging and dying?

For myself, I do imagine the end of my life.

And I used to dread it.

And I recently met up with my sister in law, who's in her late 80s and not in great health, but has been consistently one of the most upbeat, optimistic people I've ever known.

You know, one of those people that just inspires you.

And so I asked her the big question.

I said, sue, how are you feeling about the future?

And you know what she said to me?

What did she say?

She said, magical.

Magical.

Wow.

In her 80s and not in good health.

Right.

And I thought to myself, well, why not?

Like I say, you have to dig deep.

But she takes delight in everything.

You know, when she, when she's needing care from somebody, she takes delight in that.

So, you know, I think they call it a spiritual practice because you have to practice it.

If you do nothing, just live your successful Life and try and extend midlife and your busy days and, you know, your external pleasures until the very end without any preparation.

And all of a sudden you're not feeling well, you know, you're not going to think of it as magical.

Yeah.

So, you know, what level of, what depth do we have to go to to find the essence in ourselves that is untouched or even, oh my gosh, more than untouched.

It's like the diamond that gets ground, you know, the rocket that gets ground into a gorgeous diamond.

By the, by the challenges of aging and death and dying.

So I'm practicing.

I don't always feel optimistic about the end.

You know, I, I don't like going to the doctor's office and having to hear what my numbers are or whatever.

Oh, I know.

That's the most, you know.

Yeah.

But we were just talking.

You and I were just talking a little bit before we started.

And I said, for me, the thrill of age is that I am using it as permission to listen to my own heart and soul, which is often telling me to do things that were counter to my programming and what society expects of me.

So for me, aging is synonymous with freedom.

Yes.

Yeah.

I can't say how many times I'll say to myself, I, I don't like her anymore.

She used to be a good friend.

But, you know, I don't, I don't need to waste my precious life.

I'm.

I'm 76.

I get to do what I want.

Right.

Right.

I do think I do agree with you on that, with the freedom side of it, because I think there are, you know, also with, like, who.

Who we have to invite over for certain things and, you know, who we, where we have to show up.

We have to.

I, I don't think we have to anym.

We have to do what's right for us.

Yeah.

And, you know, the spiritual practice again, and that the book is really helping people hone, is how to listen to your own heart and gut and not second guess not, you know, not overthink, not argue with yourself, not think you're bad because you're having something that is other than what your church or your mother or society, you know, thinks you ought to be doing at any particular point.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I think getting to the aging place, accepting that I'm aging and all has not been as difficult.

I don't think I'm ready to totally think about dying yet, but that's a long way off, so.

But I wanted to talk to you about this next stage of life and I don't.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's been a lot of study about, you know, everything you see is 65 and older.

Right.

I don't think there's been a lot of study about it.

So do we even have a label for what this stage of life is and.

And what the tasks, you know, like, would be for us as we're aging?

Great question.

I got my doctorate in Vanderbilt in a second career in history and critical theory of religion.

But my area of specialization was life stage and spiritual development.

And I actually went to get my doctorate because I was afraid of dying and aging.

And I wanted to hear what the greatest scholars and sociologists and anthropologists and life stage experts had to say about it, and most of them, the Piagets and like that, you know, your character was formed by the time you were six or seven, and then you get into somebody like Kohlberg and some of the others, and, you know, you peak at midlife.

And there was only one or two that even discussed what goes on in later life.

It's.

It was always considered like an addendum or a decline, you know, slow, sad decline.

Absolutely.

Do you remember Gail Sheehy?

Yes, for sure.

Yes.

You mean, if you have a copy on your shelf, and a lot of us do, it's really fun to pull out because she has, like, 20 or 30 pages on the 20s and 20 or 30 pages on the 30s and so forth and so on.

And then when she gets to the 60s, it's two pages and.

And every stage has its, you know, its title.

You want to guess what she called the 60s and beyond old.

I don't know.

Serene 60s.

The serene serene.

And the thing is, she's passed now, but I knew her.

Oh, you did?

I did.

Yeah.

We were on a lot of panels together because she and I were both life stage experts, and she was not serene.

She was passionate and challenged and conflicted and.

And everybody I knew was like that.

I don't know any serene people.

If I do, you know, it's like, I personally think serenity is boring.

I do.

You know, I have a different role model.

I love Florida.

Scott Maxwell, who wrote a book called the Measure of my days about 50 years ago at the age of 85, and she talked about becoming fully alive.

Yeah.

And there are a lot of authors now who are starting to begin to understand what the purpose of old age is.

For it takes many, many years to get beyond the compromises that we have to make earlier in life.

And the masks that we don and the illusions that we hold.

And, I mean, didn't we, less than a month ago, have so many illusions Crash?

And I think, you know, a lot of us are, yes, it's hard enough being old in the best of times.

Right, right.

But try being hard at a time when you assumed your lifetime's work was going to manifest into something of a culmination, and instead you find yourself scattered in pieces on the floor.

So those are the times we're in.

And.

But again, I'm not hopeless.

I believe the falling apart is part of the process and that, you know, like the phoenix, that there's something that's going to come out of this for you and each of us personally as well as a society.

Yeah, it does take faith.

Definitely.

It does take faith.

And that's always one of the things I've tried to remember.

And when I coach people, you know, that sometimes when things are the hardest, that's because there's this new little metamorphosis going on and you're going to blossom out into something else.

But you have to be ready.

You have to be aware that that's happening and open to the experience.

Well, and I think a lot of older people have a tendency to isolate and not talk about the shadow side of aging, even with their friends.

You know, maybe you have a friend.

But, you know, I know a lot of people who are still putting on the masks, you know, putting on all their makeup and going to fancy places to eat and talking about their trips, you know, if you have the money, the latest cruise or whatever.

But, you know.

You know, I think it's interesting because you said you don't think about death or dying, but it comes.

It sneaks in, in funny ways.

And I bet you do more than.

I'm sorry.

I bet you do more than you think.

Like, let me give you an example.

Maybe not you, but most of us, when we go to the financial planner, you know, you're trying to figure out, you know, how you're going to handle your money.

What is the first question they ask you?

How long do you think you're going to live?

Yes.

So, you know, part of it is.

Part of it is, you know, catching yourself when you don't know, you're looking at yourself and finding out that, I mean, all the questions about legacy and immortality and your children, I mean, all that stuff is.

Has to do with our attitudes about death and dying in disguise.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

And you don't have.

You don't have to look at death and dying.

But I have found that people that are willing to go there while they're younger and it's not imminent, as I said before, spiritual practice, you know, you don't want to take your first look at it and what your attitude is about it on your deathbed.

No, right.

That's right.

That's right.

So, you know, why not now?

Yeah.

And you're right.

We do think about it.

We do all of our paperwork and try and prepare for that.

And have you done your will?

I've got my will and I've got.

And then we put it away and we go back into denial, which is okay.

I mean, I am a big believer in a little bit of denial goes a long way.

I know.

And we do everything we can to stay as healthy as we can.

Well, that too, yeah.

So I want to talk about your book, Spiritual Aging.

And you say in the introduction, Carol, that this is a quote.

However old you are, however challenging your circumstances, you can fulfill your life's purpose.

Now, I've had so many conversations with people who struggle with this idea of a life purpose.

So what would you say is your life's purpose?

And when did you feel like you really knew what it was?

Well, there's multiple answers to that question, but I'm going to go to the.

To the answer I got that offered me the biggest relief.

I mean, obviously there's a things of, you know, wanting to use my skills and talents, you know, writing a book, speaking, that kind of thing.

Obviously there's my relationship with my children and grandchildren, you know, but I always felt like, you know, why.

Why do I have the sense that there's more to be done and that in a way, the older I get, the less I know.

Sometimes I feel like I'm going backwards.

Things that I thought I was accomplishing didn't turn out the way I thought.

And then I started reading Carl Jung, especially his very last book, which is called Memories, Dreams and Reflections.

And in it, he defines the purpose of life in such a way that I got it and I completely relaxed.

He said that the complete and total purpose of life is the expansion of consciousness, beginning, middle and end.

You know, the ability to embrace more of reality, to grow your heart, to grow self awareness, to grow acceptance of reality.

And as an example, learning that you don't know things is expanding your consciousness, you know, so, you know, understanding that there's parts of you that wished you could do more and that you're leaving unfinished business, that's an expansion of consciousness.

So it's really about self awareness and growing your self awareness.

And like I said, you can dip your toe in illusion, but don't live there.

Interesting.

So it's not that capital P purpose of, you know, finding the cure for cancer and solving world hunger.

It seems like it's more of an internal awareness of what you, who you are, what you've done, and maybe how you can share those gifts if you're aware of them.

Well, if you do the work of spiritual aging and you know, my book leads you there week by week, eventually you get deep enough that you're not even asking questions of purpose and meaning anymore.

I mean, in those highest moments of your life when you're sitting on the riverbank and the sun is rising or your grandchild is in your arms, your brand new grandchild, you're not asking what the purpose of meaning of life is or age is.

You're immersed in it and you're living it.

And I think we have this idea that it's something that we have to achieve that is ahead of us or behind us or beneath us or that we have to struggle for.

And I think the person who's in their garden just totally immersed in the flow of planting.

Your father's poem.

Yes, that was beautiful.

The Patch of Land.

I would just give that poem and tell people to check any one of those off.

That's your purpose.

I love that.

Carol, you're right.

That does relieve a lot of the pressure that we put on ourselves about, oh no, what's my purpose?

What's my purpose?

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Thank you.

I think ambition is a midlife thing and I think, you know, a young, you need it when you're young.

You drive yourself through midlife.

But one of the privileges of aging is to stop harrowing.

You know, you planted, you planted your field.

Harvest it through, harvest it through joy or whatever your heart is telling you to do.

I know so many people at this exact moment who are like, oh my God, how am I going to save the world?

We're going down the tubes and their heart is telling them, all I want to do is go and listen to classical music and cry.

Well, I'm going to say that I think you're serving life and your purpose and making your biggest contribution by letting yourself go, listen to your favorite piece of classical music and cry, if that's what you're called to do.

Don't argue with yourself.

You know, don't trust, don't send out 200 postcards and be miserable.

You know, just trust you need healing right now.

Yeah.

So trust in your inner voice.

Don't argue with it.

Right.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah.

Let me pause here for just a moment to tell you about an amazing offer from Rhode Scholar.

Road Scholar is one of our sponsors, and they provide trips all over the world, and they have this big thing going on right now that is a chance to win seven amazing trips for two to destinations such as South Africa, Australia, a riverboat voyage through France, and much more.

And so you would just go to roadscholar.org hey, Boomer.

And.

And then you can enter to win.

But if you don't see the pop up that says great global giveaway, that means you're already subscribed to their newsletter, but you still have a chance.

You can recommend some other friends of yours that would get the newsletter and put their names in, and then you are also entered in to win the contest.

So I hope you will take the opportunity by going to Rhodescholar.org heyboomer and I hope to see you on a Rhodes Scholar learning adventure soon.

May I just tell you that Rick Moody, who wrote the foreword to my book, was the founder of that.

A Rhodes Scholar.

Yes.

When it was Elder hostel, Right?

Oh, my gosh, I didn't know that.

Yeah.

And then he went to aarp and, you know, he's.

He's a he.

His forward alone is worth the price.

His forward is great.

Yes.

Yes, I do.

And I do love traveling with Rhodes Scholar.

So we're back with Carol Orsborne, a leader in the conscious aging movement.

And as boomers, we talked about this.

Carol, we were a generation that thought we would change the world.

We protested against the Vietnam war.

We stood up for women's rights and civil rights.

We hoped for peace, and we worked for candidates that we thought would bring us to a more peaceful world.

But now many of us are disillusioned and tired.

Yet I, for one, still want to bring hope to my community as I age.

So we kind of talked around this a little bit.

But do you see a role for the boomer generation as we age to continue to be involved in community action, or is it a more individual time for reflection and inner growth?

Wow.

For most of us, that's the million dollar question.

That's a tough one.

And they are completely in conflict with each other.

I know.

You know, it's like I'm at the peak of my abilities.

I know I am.

Is it my obligation to stay engaged in the world when my heart is telling me that what I really want to do is take a step outside and use this time for reflection and inner growth.

That's it.

So the easy answer is very difficult because I think we've been talking about expanding your consciousness.

And that's, that's one of the things that you have to expand your consciousness about is, you know, are you really being called to play a part in the world or are you doing it out of guilt?

You know, are you really called to take a step out and develop yourself personally?

But are you afraid that the world will then forget you and you'll become irrelevant?

So you know that that question leads you into the deepest stratas of truth telling for yourself.

And I have to say, it's a hard thing to know on your own.

That's why I think going to a coach, going into therapy.

I'm starting through spiritual aging at Substack, and you can get there through my book and website.

We're starting support groups.

Spiritual, spiritual aging study and support groups are coming together spontaneously because, you know, that's one of those things, you know, people can say to you, well, you say you're going to do this, but I don't, I don't hear.

I hear guilt and this driven quality in you.

I'm not really hearing genuine enthusiasm, you.

Know, and some people will be called to that.

Yes.

Thank God.

Right.

But it's not like it's, it's because that's how you're called, not because you're feeling guilty and you feel like you have to do it.

Well, like the book, my stepping forward with the book, I kept feeling like I was being called to write again, but it didn't happen until it happened.

But meanwhile, I spent five years not writing a book and sitting by the riverbank and walking through cemeteries and going for nice dinners.

You know, I spent seven years drawing my dreams every morning and analyzing my dreams.

You know, I took a good, A good seven years out of my life, and it's all in this book.

I didn't know it was for any reason or what the reason was.

Yeah.

You know, and I didn't know I was ever going to get a chance to share any of it.

And good for you that you did that.

You know, I use a book called Transitions by William Bridges when I.

I love that book.

Right.

Isn't that a great book?

That's right.

You.

You know, and we don't give ourselves permission to take that kind of time and that kind of space.

We always feel like we have to be busy and keep.

Be useful.

And we forget that being useful can be Useful to ourselves by reflecting and being quiet and listening and listening to music and dancing in the rain and whatever it is.

Yes.

You know.

Yeah, yeah, good for you that you were able to do that.

So talk to me about this title, Spiritual Aging.

You know, it's not a religious book, but it has spiritual connotations.

So what do you mean by spiritual aging?

Well, if I was going to tell you what influenced my spirituality most, I would say it's really eclectic.

I'm very much inspired by the mystics, the sages, the gurus from almost every world tradition.

But what was really helpful in finding a language where I could talk to people that wasn't overtly religious was the 12 step programs, especially Al Anon, which is for people who have an addiction.

I call it an addiction to relationships.

Many of us have, you know, that the idea that we can fix our children and, you know, they don't want us to.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's, it's my own language, but I'm very influenced by those people that talk about perennial wisdom.

That, you know, that place that touches people of all religions and all faiths where we can share common ground.

Know that.

And I.

And that's.

It gives me hope because I do believe that if you dig deep enough, well, I'll just.

I'll just go out on a limb and say, I think if you dig way, way, way, way, way, way deep, what, what we all share is love.

But, you know, we have to go through all kinds of self love and love of the world.

But, you know, we have so many defenses.

You know, we've just grown up protecting ourselves and defending ourselves and competing and that's all the stuff that we hopefully don't have to do anymore now that we're old.

And I don't know a soul who hasn't done this work and dug down deep enough and found this love that is consistent and essential and eternal and.

And is not impacted by the things that happen to us.

You know, that.

That's really.

These old people you see who are glowing.

They've gotten down to that place.

And whether they're sick or whether the world's going crazy, you know, whether the kids are screwing up, whether they're living alone, you know, you're living in love.

It's.

We talked about that earlier.

You know, it's like you're not thinking about what your purpose is.

You are immersed in this feeling of.

Of, you know.

Yeah, is joy.

You know, and that is so true.

I mean, I.

I look at the place where my mom lives the senior living place.

And they're all smiling.

They're using walkers and wheelchairs and canes and you know, they're 90, 100 and they're smiling and they're enjoying themselves.

And she is so full of gratitude for everything.

And it's, it's like the little stuff, you know, don't sweat the small stuff.

They get that.

Well, that's beautiful.

But you know, it's not that, that's not universal because I think what happens as we age is we come more, we become more of what we always were.

So if you're contracting and defending and you never wake up, you know, you just do more and more of the same.

You, you turn into those like cranky, inappropriate, mean spirited, bitter.

I mean, it's completely available to all of us to contract.

So the opposite is expansion.

And you know, your mother is.

Sounds like she contains the essence.

I don't know how she got to be that way, but it may have been the way she was parented or her religion or there might, there must have been some influence on her.

But it doesn't come naturally to all of us.

Yeah.

And you know, and what I have found is that it is a choice.

And you may start contracted and say, I don't want to live this way.

I want to live larger, you know, and that's when the work comes.

That's when people come to you and read my book or whatever.

Yeah.

Because you have to.

I mean, you're right.

I mean, to live miserably, it's like, what's the point?

Why would you don't live that way.

There are other choices and.

But it does take work.

Change is uncomfortable.

You know, it's almost better to be stuck in the misery than to risk what the change might be.

It's the unknown.

Isn't that weird?

Well, you know, I, I think some people live, hold on to the misery, ironically, because they're trying to hold on to midlife.

You know, they're afraid to go into age.

Oh, and the freedom of age.

Yeah.

I think, I think aging is much harder than being old.

I think you do.

I think aging.

You call yourself old?

I.

I do, yeah.

See, I'm not there.

Why is that easier than, than aging?

Well, it's how I define aging.

For me.

People who are aging are on some level still trying to hold on to youth and to extend midlife.

You know, if you don't want to grow old, just don't do it.

You know, just be young forever and just getting older.

Yeah.

But you know, unless you we're talking about expanding your consciousness unless you tell the truth to yourself.

Oh, my gosh.

I'm trying to hold on to something that will not be there forever.

You know, I'm going to have to let go at some point or it's going to be mis.

It's.

It's going to make me miserable because it can't.

You know, it can't sustain.

You know, I can't keep putting on just more makeup and getting another Botox treatment and, you know, I'm already spending four hours at the gym.

I can't.

Do you know, I cannot.

I cannot stave this thing off through my sheer willpower.

Yeah, that's.

That's what aging is about.

And realizing that it's not working anymore is a crisis.

And then these happy people you see, like me and your mother, are people that went through the crucible.

They.

They let themselves admit that they're gonna die.

They've just have been willing to look it in the face and say, okay, well, you know, what's that poem?

How do.

I'm going to live my one.

How am I going to live my.

Mary Oliver's poem?

I'm going to live my one and precious life.

How am I going to live my one.

My one precious life?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, it's a great.

Yeah, yeah, right.

So when did you get comfortable with just being.

Saying I'm old?

Huh?

I think I was aging all the way.

Even though I was writing books about aging, I was still aging myself until Covid.

Ah.

Huh.

When I had those years of COVID to really do a lot of introspection, I was walking in the cemetery one day.

Which is where you walked during COVID right?

That's right.

Nobody there you're going to infect.

No people.

I wasn't there to look at or think about death, but of course, you know, whatever.

And as you know, I'm a life stage expert.

And I realized I had this, like, moment of revelation that all life stage theory starts when you're born and ends with you when you die.

But I heard this voice in me saying it's not true.

Our lives start before we're born.

We are.

We are merged with the universe, in love.

And the first half of our life is.

It's propelling us forward.

You know, it's like we have this love, and we know what it is, but we've left it behind.

We're having to go through this world kicking and screaming, right?

But it's still in the back of our mind.

And what happened to me During COVID is.

All of a sudden I realized, wait a minute, I not only came from love, but I'm going to go to love.

And I physically and viscerally felt love reaching out to me from the back of my life and pulling me forward.

It just grabbed me in and said, you're going to be okay.

You know, it's going to be okay.

Covid will be over one day and it will.

This revelation is going to completely change how you view what life is all about.

And you know, what.

What death is and, and how the stages.

I think Covid did that for a lot of us.

It slowed us down enough, you know, we were forced to slow down.

Yeah.

And take some time with ourselves and try to understand what it is that it meant to us and what our families meant to us and what our place in the world meant to us.

What matters most.

Yeah.

We detached long enough to not want to get reattached, which is a privilege of age.

We don't need to get reattached.

Our kids, on the other hand, some of them have disattached prematurely.

Yeah.

It's like, could you please make your career first and then.

Right.

And then discover what I've discovered.

Right.

You're not old yet, child.

No.

No.

You need to make a living for your family.

I will say this right now.

If you are still supporting your adult child, it's time to let go.

Yes.

For sure.

Yes.

I agree with you on that.

So before.

Before I wind up this show, I want you to describe your book a little bit more.

We've been talking about Spiritual Aging, Weekly Reflections for Embracing Life.

But really, just explain how this is going to work.

Well, I'm going to show my.

This is Carol's copy.

I'll show you a copy that doesn't have Carol's copy on it.

But anyway, I love this little book.

I hope you'll buy it in paperback because it's so cute to hold, you know, and it's.

It's like fat.

It's short and fat.

It's short and fat.

You just want to hug it.

What it is.

It's weekly readings.

So here's March.

And every reading every week has a one or two page reading.

And you, you are meant to read it once a week and really not rush ahead.

I mean, you can and in fact, please read it once a week.

But if something comes up for you and you are, gosh, I'm feeling anxious or, you know, I'm struggling today or whatever.

I don't know if you can see that probably not.

But anyway, there's an index in the back that says things like, here's essence, simplicity, solitude, struggling, suffering, triggering, truth telling, victimhood.

So it'll take you to the right reading.

So you can do it both ways.

In addition to the book, I'm, I'm doing a study guide online@spiritual agingubstack.com.

go to my website, Carol Orsborne.

That's my name, carolorsborne.com and if you sign up for my, at my website, it'll take you there.

And thank you so much for posting that.

And those are going to be.

That's a study guide.

So it's spiritual exercises and individual reflection questions, but also for discussion because both on my website, but also.

I don't know if you know the group Saging International.

Yes, I do.

Yes, they're, they're an amazing global organization and they have, they're doing an immersive year of reflection based on the book.

And I'll be teaching for them once a month on a global Zoom session.

But this is the first time they've ever done anything like this.

They're breaking people up into small 10 person spiritual aging study and support groups with facilitators.

So, you know, they've, they've spent, you know, 20 or 30 years building this amazing organization with all these people who are trained to lead facilitation groups.

And I'm just thrilled they, they jumped on board with this.

So.

Yeah, yeah, that should be really good.

So it's, you know, this book is really meant.

Well, I'm not going to say it's not meant to be.

It is, there's, there's a grassroots movement and I know you feel it too, Wendy.

These people are coming together in, in, in book clubs and around churches and community centers, senior centers, and now globally online through Zoom and things like that.

Yeah, we're coming together and we're, we're growing together.

We don't have to grow old alone.

We don't have to.

You don't want to grow old alone.

You need a community.

Yeah.

So as Carol mentioned, her website is Carol C A R O L Oarsborne O R S B O R N dot com.

You can find out about her and the newest book and all of her other 35 books from that website.

She's very prolific.

Before I let you go, also for the past month, I think some of you are aware that I've been collaborating with other women podcasters so that we can get the word out about the things we are all talking about different perspectives, different angles that we have on growing older and things that ways that we can, you know, take advantage of this stage of our life.

And this month, I'm partnering with Beverly Glaser.

She is the host of Aging with Purpose and Passion.

And her podcast shares transformation stories from women over 50 50, empowering listeners to find renewed purpose, resilience and joy in midlife and beyond.

And Beverly is going to be a guest on my show next week, and we're going to talk about some of this collaboration and rediscovery and passion and purpose and, you know, aging and all of that stuff.

So I hope you will join us for that.

And if you remember at the beginning I said, when you listen to this, who do you know that is going to be like, oh, my gosh, I need to share this with them right now.

So do that.

This was an important discussion.

Share the YouTube link, share the name of this show, Boomer Banter, and tell them to look for the episode with Carol or Born, wherever they get their podcast.

And then please Support our sponsor, Roadscholar.org Hey, Boomer.

And sign up for one of those.

Hopefully you'll win one of those great trips, Carol.

Thank you.

This has been.

I know I asked you some really deep questions, so I hope.

Okay, we stretched ourselves.

I told you.

This is my first podcast on this book.

So I'm just like, buckle my seat belt.

This is where I'm starting.

Holy cow.

It'll all be easy from here on out, I'm sure.

I'm sure.

Thank you for what you're doing, Carol, and for sharing your time with us today.

Well, thank.

Thank you for what you're doing, Wendy.

It's extraordinary your show and how you get the word out, you know, it's.

You're wonderful.

Thank you.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

You too, J.