1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,880 >> Rachel Morris: You're looking at your to do list again, like it 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,280 might have shrunk since you last looked. It 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,040 hasn't. And you're probably thinking, I just have 4 00:00:08,040 --> 00:00:11,600 to get through all of this before I leave work or 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:12,440 before somebody else 6 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,160 >> Rachel Morris: notices that I didn't get it done. 7 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,120 >> Rachel Morris: And you may be thinking, if you can't get through 8 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:18,880 your to do list, then maybe you're just not cut 9 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,760 out for this job. Now, uh, people in high stress, 10 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,680 high stakes jobs may recognise this, the to do 11 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,800 list that just doesn't end because the job doesn't 12 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,880 end. So your list just refills and refills. And 13 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,160 the only response we've ever been given for this 14 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:36,360 is just to work harder, to push harder so that you 15 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,160 can finally get on top of it. And that's not a 16 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:41,400 weakness, that's just what we're trained to do. 17 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,360 And it's the only tool we've ever been given. From 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,559 taking all those exams to going through the 19 00:00:46,559 --> 00:00:50,600 training to the job itself, the entire journey of 20 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,160 getting here, it just rewarded one response to 21 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,760 pressure. Work harder. Whatever the problem was, 22 00:00:57,130 --> 00:00:59,330 that was the answer. Nobody ever gave us another 23 00:00:59,330 --> 00:01:02,250 way to do it. But here's the thing. Working 24 00:01:02,250 --> 00:01:06,290 harder, pushing harder only works right up to the 25 00:01:06,290 --> 00:01:09,170 point when it doesn't. Until the moment that you 26 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:11,330 realise you've been running on empty for so long 27 00:01:11,330 --> 00:01:14,490 that you've forgotten what feeling full feels like 28 00:01:14,490 --> 00:01:17,450 anymore. So today I'm talking to someone who comes 29 00:01:17,450 --> 00:01:20,050 at this from a completely different angle. Ellen 30 00:01:20,050 --> 00:01:22,450 Kummer has a genetics degree from Cambridge 31 00:01:22,450 --> 00:01:25,090 University. She's rational, she's rigorous, and, 32 00:01:25,090 --> 00:01:27,780 um, she's someone who could outwork most of us. 33 00:01:28,180 --> 00:01:29,820 She ended up building something called the 34 00:01:29,820 --> 00:01:32,820 softness revolution because pushing harder had 35 00:01:32,820 --> 00:01:35,540 genuinely stopped working for her. And what she 36 00:01:35,540 --> 00:01:37,820 says might be quite challenging for those of us 37 00:01:37,820 --> 00:01:40,220 who are just used to working harder being the 38 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:42,940 response to everything. She says the answer isn't 39 00:01:42,940 --> 00:01:46,340 more effort, it's less. And specifically, it's 40 00:01:46,340 --> 00:01:49,460 learning to work softer. Softer, as in only using 41 00:01:49,460 --> 00:01:52,860 the exact effort the moment actually needs instead 42 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:55,060 of just flooring it just by default, because 43 00:01:55,060 --> 00:01:58,400 that's the only setting you know. She makes the 44 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,440 case for why that's not weakness. She says it 45 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,320 might actually be the more effective option. We 46 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,440 talk about what solo sailing, a 40 foot boat 47 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,120 taught her about the difference between soft and 48 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:09,440 weak. 49 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,680 >> Rachel Morris: She'll tell you what horses know about 50 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,640 >> Rachel Morris: force that most leadership training doesn't teach 51 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:16,640 you. And she'll give you a way to tell the 52 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:18,880 difference between the push that's actually needed 53 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,120 and the pushing harder. That's just Habit. Because 54 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,680 those two feel identical when you're staring at a 55 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,440 to do list that just isn't going away. So one 56 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,360 question before we get into the episode. What 57 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,320 would happen to your to do list if just once you 58 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,480 didn't work harder, you worked softer instead? 59 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,520 >> Ellen Kumber: Hi. So I'm Ellen Kumber. I'm the co founder of 60 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,040 Softness Revolution. And I've had my own business 61 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,510 now since 2016, working as a coach, a, uh, 62 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,840 leadership facilitator, a trainer, a speaker, and 63 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,600 working on becoming an author at the moment. 64 00:02:53,550 --> 00:02:55,910 >> Rachel Morris: It's wonderful to have you here. Now, Ellen is not 65 00:02:55,910 --> 00:02:58,270 just any old coach. She's got some very 66 00:02:58,270 --> 00:03:00,430 interesting ideas. Ah. Which I thought would be 67 00:03:00,670 --> 00:03:03,430 absolutely fascinating for my listeners, most of 68 00:03:03,430 --> 00:03:07,070 whom are, um, in high stakes, high stress roles. 69 00:03:07,070 --> 00:03:10,470 They feel very over responsible for everybody and 70 00:03:10,470 --> 00:03:13,230 everything. Um, and often they just have one gear 71 00:03:13,230 --> 00:03:15,950 when something's wrong, Ellen, they work harder, 72 00:03:16,670 --> 00:03:20,300 they do more hours, they just take on more. They 73 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:22,220 probably take on everything themselves because 74 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:24,260 they often think, if I don't do it, who else will? 75 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,780 Um, and I know you talk a lot about trying softer 76 00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:30,740 and working softer, but first of all, how could 77 00:03:30,740 --> 00:03:32,980 you tell that someone is in that sort of trying 78 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:36,460 harder mode? What does it, what does it look like 79 00:03:36,460 --> 00:03:37,060 to you? 80 00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:39,980 >> Ellen Kumber: Well, it's a mode I'm very familiar with because 81 00:03:39,980 --> 00:03:43,780 it was my default mode for most of my 20s, 30s, 82 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:48,550 and it's, it's this sense of I can't put anything 83 00:03:48,550 --> 00:03:52,110 down. You know, it, the default is if it's got to 84 00:03:52,110 --> 00:03:55,070 happen, I've got to make it happen. It's the 85 00:03:55,230 --> 00:03:57,590 nothing is just going to happen unless I do 86 00:03:57,590 --> 00:04:00,670 something about it. And I was very much in that 87 00:04:00,670 --> 00:04:03,350 sense of like, you know, success is 1% 88 00:04:03,350 --> 00:04:06,190 inspiration, 99% perspiration. Right. Everything 89 00:04:06,190 --> 00:04:08,350 that is going to happen is going to happen because 90 00:04:08,350 --> 00:04:10,150 I've worked hard to do it and it isn't really an 91 00:04:10,150 --> 00:04:13,110 achievement unless I've worked hard to do it. So 92 00:04:13,110 --> 00:04:15,550 that is that default. And it just builds up to 93 00:04:15,550 --> 00:04:20,119 more and more sense of overwhelm, stress, uh, and 94 00:04:20,119 --> 00:04:22,839 this just feeling like you're juggling all of 95 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,239 these balls, spinning all of these plates and you 96 00:04:25,239 --> 00:04:27,319 can't stop because everything will come crashing 97 00:04:27,319 --> 00:04:28,919 down to the floor if you do. 98 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,479 >> Rachel Morris: And what does that look like then? So you're 99 00:04:33,479 --> 00:04:35,199 feeling overwhelmed, you're feeling that you're 100 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:38,079 juggling. Are you actually being more effective in 101 00:04:38,079 --> 00:04:38,679 that mode? 102 00:04:39,479 --> 00:04:42,479 >> Ellen Kumber: Not really, no. Because what you're missing in 103 00:04:42,479 --> 00:04:46,559 that mode is access to your inner sense of wisdom, 104 00:04:46,559 --> 00:04:49,930 your inner guidance. And so you're on that default 105 00:04:49,930 --> 00:04:52,770 mode you know, falling back on old storeys, old 106 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:55,690 beliefs, old patterns of behaviour and so you 107 00:04:55,690 --> 00:04:58,290 can't actually see what's really going on. Like, 108 00:04:58,290 --> 00:05:01,330 we get. We get tunnel vision and we miss 109 00:05:01,490 --> 00:05:03,770 everything that's happening around us, both in 110 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:07,050 terms of, you know, life and in terms of what we 111 00:05:07,050 --> 00:05:10,370 could do differently that might support us to have 112 00:05:10,370 --> 00:05:12,610 some shifts to make life a little bit easier and 113 00:05:12,610 --> 00:05:14,650 things come to us a little bit simpler. So we 114 00:05:14,650 --> 00:05:16,490 spend so much of our time focused on trying to 115 00:05:16,490 --> 00:05:19,170 figure things out. If we're thinking about mental, 116 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:20,670 working hard, hard, because there's lots of 117 00:05:20,670 --> 00:05:22,030 different types of working hard that's working 118 00:05:22,030 --> 00:05:24,030 hard physically, but there's also working hard 119 00:05:24,030 --> 00:05:25,910 mentally and there's working too hard emotionally 120 00:05:25,910 --> 00:05:28,390 as well. And all of those come into play. And when 121 00:05:28,390 --> 00:05:30,990 we're working too hard mentally, you know, we're 122 00:05:30,990 --> 00:05:32,470 trying to figure everything out. There's not 123 00:05:32,470 --> 00:05:35,310 enough space, um, if you like, to receive 124 00:05:35,310 --> 00:05:38,030 insights. And therefore we end up working on 125 00:05:38,030 --> 00:05:40,350 something that would have just taken a, you know, 126 00:05:40,350 --> 00:05:43,510 a break, taken five minutes, gone and done 127 00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:45,710 something different. That insight would drop in. 128 00:05:45,710 --> 00:05:47,350 Like, we've all had moments where we've had that 129 00:05:47,350 --> 00:05:48,750 aha. Moment in the shower. 130 00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:49,380 >> Rachel Morris: And. 131 00:05:49,530 --> 00:05:52,050 >> Ellen Kumber: And what this is about is that how do you, like, 132 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:54,130 increase those number of aha moments that you 133 00:05:54,130 --> 00:05:57,010 have? And when we're focused on working hard and 134 00:05:57,010 --> 00:05:59,930 figuring things out, we lose access to that. 135 00:06:00,970 --> 00:06:04,290 >> Rachel Morris: So what you're saying is most of us, and I'm 136 00:06:04,290 --> 00:06:06,770 certainly in this, and I think certainly in 137 00:06:06,770 --> 00:06:08,810 medicine and healthcare and other jobs where 138 00:06:08,810 --> 00:06:10,530 you've been very highly trained in sort of 139 00:06:10,530 --> 00:06:14,010 deductive reasoning, we think that the only way to 140 00:06:14,010 --> 00:06:17,150 solve a problem is to figure. Figure it out. But 141 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:18,990 what you're saying is there's a different way to 142 00:06:18,990 --> 00:06:21,830 solve. To solve the problems. Even the problem of 143 00:06:21,830 --> 00:06:23,830 I've got too much to do. Is that right? 144 00:06:24,230 --> 00:06:26,630 >> Ellen Kumber: Absolutely, yeah. You know, my background's in 145 00:06:26,630 --> 00:06:29,550 science. I did genetics at Cambridge. And so my 146 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:32,670 background is that scientific sense of, like, you 147 00:06:32,670 --> 00:06:35,150 know, that. That rational thinking. And what I've 148 00:06:35,150 --> 00:06:38,590 learned over the years is that, you know, our 149 00:06:38,590 --> 00:06:41,630 rational mind is phenomenal. But Einstein said, 150 00:06:41,630 --> 00:06:44,950 you know, intuition is a gift and our, you know, 151 00:06:44,950 --> 00:06:47,590 rational minds are faithful servant. But we've 152 00:06:47,590 --> 00:06:50,190 created a society that honours the servant and has 153 00:06:50,190 --> 00:06:53,110 forgotten the gift. And I think that gets trained 154 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:56,070 into a sense of like, be. Be rational. Like you 155 00:06:56,070 --> 00:06:58,830 said that read that. Abductive reasoning. It's, 156 00:06:58,830 --> 00:07:01,470 we, we get caught in this. I have to work it out, 157 00:07:01,470 --> 00:07:04,190 I have to figure it out in our rational mind. But 158 00:07:04,190 --> 00:07:06,590 actually there's so much more space and we Also 159 00:07:06,590 --> 00:07:09,430 access our intuitive mind. So this is not about, 160 00:07:09,830 --> 00:07:12,070 you know, denying our rational intelligence. You 161 00:07:12,070 --> 00:07:13,750 know, we have our rational intelligence, we have 162 00:07:13,750 --> 00:07:16,410 our uh, emotional intell. But we forget about our 163 00:07:16,410 --> 00:07:18,930 intuitive intelligence. And so this is about 164 00:07:18,930 --> 00:07:21,330 allowing more space for our intuitive intelligence 165 00:07:21,330 --> 00:07:23,610 to come through. Because with all of the training, 166 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:26,210 with everything we've received, with all the 167 00:07:26,210 --> 00:07:28,850 information that we've got, it's all in there, we 168 00:07:28,850 --> 00:07:31,570 have access to it all. But when we're trying to 169 00:07:31,570 --> 00:07:34,050 figure out where it is or figure out the answer to 170 00:07:34,050 --> 00:07:38,170 something, we lose access to um, these kind of the 171 00:07:38,170 --> 00:07:40,770 creative connections our brain can make when it's 172 00:07:40,770 --> 00:07:43,910 just allowed a little bit more space, um, to 173 00:07:43,990 --> 00:07:46,230 receive what's coming for us rather than to try 174 00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:47,430 and figure it out and push. 175 00:07:48,550 --> 00:07:51,230 >> Rachel Morris: So you're talking about the difference between 176 00:07:51,230 --> 00:07:53,510 really being into the left brain mode and the 177 00:07:53,510 --> 00:07:55,310 right brain mode, or is it something a bit 178 00:07:55,310 --> 00:07:55,590 different? 179 00:07:57,030 --> 00:07:58,910 >> Ellen Kumber: I think of it more just as like the kind of the 180 00:07:58,910 --> 00:08:00,870 rational brain and the, the intuitive 181 00:08:00,870 --> 00:08:04,350 intelligence. You know, it's allowing us to I 182 00:08:04,350 --> 00:08:06,550 guess move between the left and the right brain a 183 00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:09,510 little bit more, but also just access that, the, 184 00:08:09,510 --> 00:08:11,590 the magic, if you like. That kind of like, I don't 185 00:08:11,590 --> 00:08:13,590 know quite how that works, but that just works. 186 00:08:13,590 --> 00:08:16,570 You know, you're in the shower, you're walking the 187 00:08:16,570 --> 00:08:18,930 dog, you have an insight comes to you. I don't 188 00:08:18,930 --> 00:08:20,450 know if we go, oh, that was my right brain or my 189 00:08:20,450 --> 00:08:22,090 left brain. I think, I think if we're thinking 190 00:08:22,090 --> 00:08:24,610 that way, we're probably in that thinking part of 191 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:25,490 our brain, right? 192 00:08:26,770 --> 00:08:27,210 >> Rachel Morris: Yeah. 193 00:08:27,210 --> 00:08:30,929 >> Rachel Morris: So I'm really fascinated by this whole thing about 194 00:08:31,170 --> 00:08:34,170 intuition. So what you're saying is that when 195 00:08:34,170 --> 00:08:36,250 you're in that mode of just doing stuff, doing, 196 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:38,890 going, going, working harder, and we're constantly 197 00:08:38,890 --> 00:08:41,010 just using our rational brain to try and figure 198 00:08:41,010 --> 00:08:43,050 out the problem, to try and solve things, if we 199 00:08:43,050 --> 00:08:46,800 just stopped and started to use our uh, intuition 200 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:52,240 more, that will help things. So I think, I agree, 201 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,000 but I think for some of us it's quite difficult to 202 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,520 understand what you mean by intuition. And it can 203 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,360 get a bit woo woo, can't it? How would you 204 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,640 describe what is going on scientifically when we 205 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,480 use our uh, intuition or our intuitive brain or 206 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,240 some people call it your higher self and all that 207 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,920 sort of stuff. What's your understanding of that? 208 00:09:16,310 --> 00:09:18,990 >> Ellen Kumber: Well, I, I think of it as like you're, you're 209 00:09:18,990 --> 00:09:20,630 letting go of uh, some of the filters that we 210 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:23,390 filter through. Right. You know, we know we, we 211 00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:24,630 filter everything through the particular 212 00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:26,550 activating system. Right. If you want to look at 213 00:09:26,550 --> 00:09:29,070 that science side of it. And you know, it's the 214 00:09:29,070 --> 00:09:31,230 reason why we buy a new car and you suddenly see 215 00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:33,470 it everywhere, right? We, you guys, your listeners 216 00:09:33,470 --> 00:09:36,870 know all of this, right? So it's, it's relaxing 217 00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:39,510 that a little bit. You know, there's so much more 218 00:09:39,510 --> 00:09:41,590 information out there and we filter it. You know, 219 00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:43,430 we filter out the colour of the carpet because we 220 00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:46,570 don't need to know it. But when we, our brains and 221 00:09:46,570 --> 00:09:48,650 take them out of like those beta waves of thinking 222 00:09:48,650 --> 00:09:50,850 and just relax the brains and put them into like 223 00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:53,410 more of kind of that alpha state or Peter state, 224 00:09:53,490 --> 00:09:56,250 depending, what we get to is that, that we relax 225 00:09:56,250 --> 00:09:58,970 that. We relax that filter a little bit. And so 226 00:09:58,970 --> 00:10:03,410 other things can come through to us. And it's not 227 00:10:03,410 --> 00:10:07,370 just this kind of like, um, magical, because we 228 00:10:07,370 --> 00:10:11,050 can set it up so we can tap into that intuition 229 00:10:11,050 --> 00:10:13,770 more by kind, um, of being clear about what it is 230 00:10:13,770 --> 00:10:15,810 that we're looking to create, what is we're 231 00:10:15,810 --> 00:10:19,390 looking to receive about. So we're almost like 232 00:10:19,390 --> 00:10:21,710 resetting that reticular, activating system a 233 00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:24,030 little bit as well and allowing ourselves to see 234 00:10:24,030 --> 00:10:27,030 different information. Because everything is set 235 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:29,190 based on our underlying and storeys and beliefs, 236 00:10:29,190 --> 00:10:31,470 right? This is confirmation bias. We, we see 237 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:33,350 things in the world around us that confirm our 238 00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:36,110 viewpoint of the world. And so if our viewpoint of 239 00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:37,910 the world is that life is difficult and life is 240 00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:39,750 tough and everything is hard, then we are going to 241 00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:42,390 constantly see all of the evidence, you know, that 242 00:10:42,390 --> 00:10:45,420 says that if I'm on stage giving a talk and 243 00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:47,020 there's a, you know, a couple of hundred people in 244 00:10:47,020 --> 00:10:49,100 the room and I'm thinking this is going to be bad, 245 00:10:49,420 --> 00:10:51,580 I'm going to notice the one or two people in the 246 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:53,380 room that don't look like they're having fun, that 247 00:10:53,380 --> 00:10:54,980 have got their arms crossed, that not paying 248 00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:58,180 attention. And I, and I notice that, I notice that 249 00:10:58,180 --> 00:11:00,180 about myself and I constantly take a breath and 250 00:11:00,180 --> 00:11:03,140 relax and just allow my awareness to expand to see 251 00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:05,620 the people in the room that like taking notes and 252 00:11:05,620 --> 00:11:08,540 listening and smiling and all that, right? So we, 253 00:11:08,620 --> 00:11:11,380 we tend to focus on what proves what we already 254 00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:13,480 think about the world and a lot about. I think 255 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,360 that intuition is let. Letting go of those 256 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,560 storeys, letting go of the way that we think. 257 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,320 Letting go of our attachment to being right about. 258 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,400 It's hard. Letting go of our attachment to being 259 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,279 right of. It's a crap talk. And when we let go of 260 00:11:28,279 --> 00:11:30,560 that entachment, we can see other information 261 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,840 coming to us. And really I think that's what 262 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,770 intuition is. It's spotting connections that uh, 263 00:11:34,770 --> 00:11:38,000 you know, we otherwise don't see and allowing our 264 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,480 brains to be relaxed enough to receive that. 265 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,920 >> Rachel Morris: And where does the intuition come from? Is it sort 266 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,320 of based on past experiences and emotions and 267 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,880 things like that that we're just not aware of 268 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,720 there, or is it somewhere else? 269 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,640 >> Ellen Kumber: I, uh, think this depends how much you want to see 270 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,360 the magic in the world. Sometimes I just see it as 271 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,440 like magic, like things happen and I'm like, how 272 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,360 on earth? But I think a lot of the time it's all 273 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,310 of the information that we have access to, you 274 00:12:09,310 --> 00:12:13,870 know, and there are times where, you know, we feel 275 00:12:13,870 --> 00:12:16,510 that connection to other things. And the reality 276 00:12:16,510 --> 00:12:18,390 is we feel like we're separate. So we're trying to 277 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:21,190 create a separate existence in life, but we're 278 00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:23,550 much more connected than we think. You know, it is 279 00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:25,030 a little bit magic if you want to go into the 280 00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:27,230 magic of it. It reminds me of like Star wars, you 281 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:29,710 know, the Force and everything is connected. It's 282 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:32,030 relaxing our brain so we have more of an access to 283 00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:34,190 things that we already know but we're not thinking 284 00:12:34,190 --> 00:12:38,480 about in that moment or an understanding, uh, you 285 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,240 know, the noticing people's body language, things 286 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,800 that you would have a perception over. You know, 287 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,440 we can see people and perceive people in a certain 288 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,680 way because that's how we, that's how we think of 289 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,920 them. And when you relax that you see other 290 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,880 aspects of people. So, and it could be that as 291 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,040 well, you know, I like to think of the magic of it 292 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,240 because I've had a lot of experiences of, of being 293 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,960 in my intuition and knowing things about people 294 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,600 that couldn't possibly have known rationally. And 295 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,040 well, to my thinking brain, I couldn't have known 296 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,000 it rationally. So maybe there's some scientific 297 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:10,640 stuff in there. 298 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,480 >> Rachel Morris: So did you ever use your intuition when you were 299 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,600 stuck in like the science world, the business 300 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,920 world? How did you start to, to use your intuition 301 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,280 there and, and what happened when you did? 302 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,520 >> Ellen Kumber: So, yeah, I started learning about mentuition when 303 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,000 I was still working in my corporate role and I 304 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,170 went to a two day seminar to learn more about, you 305 00:13:32,170 --> 00:13:34,130 know, who I was, intuition. And one of the things 306 00:13:34,130 --> 00:13:36,050 I realised was that I'd been very disconnected 307 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:37,770 from my intuition. I was very much in my rational 308 00:13:37,770 --> 00:13:40,290 mind. I was very much in my belief system, which 309 00:13:40,290 --> 00:13:42,370 for me was very strongly about not being good 310 00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:44,570 enough. And I realised my whole life had been 311 00:13:44,570 --> 00:13:49,050 about like proving that I was good enough. You 312 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:54,440 know, so much of what I'd done was success, um, 313 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,810 more accolades, you know, more, uh, levels, more 314 00:13:57,810 --> 00:14:00,210 certificates, you know, Lots of things to prove 315 00:14:00,210 --> 00:14:02,170 that, you know, I was good enough and I was stuck 316 00:14:02,170 --> 00:14:05,510 in that. And so I'd lost connection with what was 317 00:14:05,510 --> 00:14:08,110 actually truly important to me and my, you know, 318 00:14:08,110 --> 00:14:10,630 innate essence, spirit, you know, whatever we want 319 00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:14,470 to call it. And so I started learning how to 320 00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:17,510 connect more to myself, to what really, you know, 321 00:14:17,510 --> 00:14:21,670 brought me joy and. And, um, deeper into my 322 00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:23,670 intuition. And that's when I connected to my 323 00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:26,590 intuition. I was able to be guided, if you like. 324 00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:29,230 For me, it's like a series of breadcrumbs. It's 325 00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:31,870 not always this massive aha. But the little series 326 00:14:31,870 --> 00:14:34,910 of things, I got more connected to my creativity. 327 00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:38,100 I was more aware of when I was doing something 328 00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:41,820 because I thought I had to, versus because it was 329 00:14:41,820 --> 00:14:45,140 truly what was needed in the moment, you know. So 330 00:14:45,140 --> 00:14:47,140 there were times where I was on, you know, 331 00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:49,340 conference calls, 10 o' clock at night with the 332 00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:51,740 US, and I realised, hang on, I'm just. I'm just on 333 00:14:51,740 --> 00:14:54,020 this call to. To prove that I'm here, not because 334 00:14:54,020 --> 00:14:56,900 I'm actually adding any value. And I stopped doing 335 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:59,620 things like that. So I stopped working as hard and 336 00:14:59,620 --> 00:15:02,350 yet I was having better, you know, better results 337 00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:04,990 in a lot of ways. And I started connecting more 338 00:15:04,990 --> 00:15:07,230 with people in a different way and got clearer 339 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:10,910 about, you know, really when I was operating from, 340 00:15:11,310 --> 00:15:13,830 you know, my true self, if you like, my spirit, my 341 00:15:13,830 --> 00:15:16,830 essence, my intuition, versus when I was acting 342 00:15:16,830 --> 00:15:21,150 to. To prove myself. And that shifted how I 343 00:15:21,150 --> 00:15:24,150 worked. It shifted my relationships with people at 344 00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:28,120 work. Um, I stopped, you know, avoiding conflict 345 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,000 as much, I guess. I always was trying to keep 346 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,280 everybody happy and I couldn't therefore, you 347 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,800 know, do certain things or take certain time off. 348 00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:40,120 Um, I wouldn't say the thing I wanted to say 349 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,080 because I didn't want to upset the person. And all 350 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,520 of that shifted because I started to recognise 351 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,560 when I was in that kind of protective behaviour 352 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,400 and. Or proving behaviour, or when I was actually 353 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,760 acting to be of service to what it was that I was 354 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,560 looking to create. And that changed because we're 355 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,040 always, you know, we're either proving or 356 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,800 protecting ourselves or we're being of service to 357 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,800 what it is that we truly want to create. 358 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,360 >> Rachel Morris: And that's really hard to see when you're in the 359 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,800 middle of working harder, when you've got an 360 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,840 overwhelming workload, when there's all these 361 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,080 patients left to see or these team members left to 362 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,160 support and all this workload left to do. And I 363 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,240 think sometimes when I'm in that mode, like the 364 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:23,840 work harder, oh, gosh, I've got to get through 365 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,970 this, I would find it very difficult to drop into 366 00:16:26,970 --> 00:16:29,890 my intuition or I probably wouldn't know if I 367 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:34,290 could trust it or not. How do you know if 368 00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:36,850 something's coming from your intuition or 369 00:16:36,850 --> 00:16:38,610 something coming just because you're totally fed 370 00:16:38,610 --> 00:16:40,810 up or something because you're. Because you're 371 00:16:40,810 --> 00:16:42,850 scared of something. And that, that feels like 372 00:16:42,850 --> 00:16:45,050 intuition. I think particularly when it's, like 373 00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:48,210 having conversations with, with people, difficult 374 00:16:48,210 --> 00:16:51,010 conversation. I could probably talk myself out of 375 00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:53,090 it by going, well, my intuition saying, probably 376 00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:55,370 not the, uh, not the right time to have it, you 377 00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:57,370 know, I find it really difficult to tell the 378 00:16:57,370 --> 00:17:00,570 difference between the fear and the intuitive bit 379 00:17:00,570 --> 00:17:01,010 of me. 380 00:17:01,650 --> 00:17:05,480 >> Ellen Kumber: And that is a lot about building awareness, um, 381 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,170 and learning to, like, be able to differentiate 382 00:17:09,330 --> 00:17:13,570 those voices. Yeah, the fear and the, and the joy 383 00:17:13,570 --> 00:17:16,250 or the love, if you, if you like. When we're 384 00:17:16,250 --> 00:17:18,730 coming from fear, we know we're not connected to 385 00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:20,650 our intuition because that's going to separate us 386 00:17:20,650 --> 00:17:23,429 from. From that intuition. So a lot of it is about 387 00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:25,429 the awareness of understanding where it is that 388 00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:28,309 we're coming from and. And what is coming up for 389 00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:30,069 us. Like what is the meaning we're putting on 390 00:17:30,069 --> 00:17:31,869 things? You know, as humans, we're meaning making 391 00:17:31,869 --> 00:17:34,669 machines about everything. We tell storeys about 392 00:17:34,669 --> 00:17:37,429 ourselves, um, about who we are, about what we 393 00:17:37,429 --> 00:17:39,869 need to do. And so when you build that awareness, 394 00:17:39,869 --> 00:17:43,669 you start to notice, like, that the feeling that's 395 00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:45,829 coming up for you, the storey that you're telling 396 00:17:45,829 --> 00:17:48,520 yourself. And it may be that you can't shift out 397 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,920 of that in the moment. And that's totally cool. 398 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,920 It's just that you don't then make any decisions 399 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,080 on that basis. You recognise that what's going on 400 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,280 there is that voice that's coming from. Coming 401 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,320 from fear. And we can acknowledge that. We can 402 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,040 say, I'm feeling fear right now and what we want 403 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,400 to do as humans, then we make up a myriad of 404 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,200 storeys about that. That makes me crap at my job, 405 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,840 that makes me a bad leader. And then we make up 406 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,000 storeys to justify, therefore, why we don't do 407 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,080 something as well. And so we've got all of these 408 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,680 things going on. And really, for me to access the 409 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,600 intuition, it's about quietening down all of those 410 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,360 voices so that you could hear the much quieter 411 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,320 voice that says, this is not the right time to do 412 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,120 this because you're not in the right state or this 413 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,640 needs addressing. Now that's a much quieter voice 414 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,460 and often it's. For me, it can be that sense of 415 00:18:40,460 --> 00:18:42,500 that inner knowing where things just feel a bit 416 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,900 calmer. And I'm like uh, that I can feel that as 417 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:49,500 truth, uh, versus the storeys and the lies that 418 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:53,300 I'm, that I'm telling myself. And it can take time 419 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:55,860 to build that awareness. And that's why softness 420 00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:58,340 has been such a big thing for me in the last few 421 00:18:58,340 --> 00:19:02,900 years, is because adding softness into all of the 422 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:04,460 other principles that I've been teaching and 423 00:19:04,460 --> 00:19:07,970 working with people on has given more of that 424 00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:11,530 awareness. So in the moment, like if you're 425 00:19:11,530 --> 00:19:15,370 already tense and up here, like really hard to 426 00:19:15,370 --> 00:19:18,010 come all the way down, but if you're constantly 427 00:19:18,010 --> 00:19:20,850 softening throughout the day, then you have more 428 00:19:20,850 --> 00:19:23,570 access to that, you're more aware, you're less 429 00:19:23,570 --> 00:19:26,570 reactive, you have more time and space to, to 430 00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:29,010 choose your response to something as opposed to 431 00:19:29,010 --> 00:19:30,850 just being in that reactive mode. 432 00:19:31,660 --> 00:19:33,620 >> Rachel Morris: And that is very, very hard, isn't it, when, when 433 00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:35,860 you've got uh, a list as long as your arm and 434 00:19:35,860 --> 00:19:38,700 there's lots of things to do. I'd love to dig into 435 00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,020 this softness thing because I know when we first 436 00:19:41,020 --> 00:19:42,940 met Ellen, you told me about the softness 437 00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:45,740 revolution and I was like, oh, softness, you know, 438 00:19:45,740 --> 00:19:48,180 I mean that just sounds like weakness to me and I 439 00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:51,420 know it's anything but, but could you, you know, 440 00:19:51,420 --> 00:19:53,700 for people that listening going softness sounds 441 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,140 really namby pamby. How will I ever get anything 442 00:19:56,140 --> 00:19:58,940 done in a really busy, difficult clinical 443 00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:02,520 environment if I going to be softer rather than 444 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,400 harder? And won't that just make me a total 445 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,120 pushover? 446 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,040 >> Ellen Kumber: I love this question. 447 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,680 >> Rachel Morris: You knew it was coming, right? 448 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,240 >> Ellen Kumber: Yeah, I mean I've just spent the last three weeks 449 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,920 solo sailing my 40 foot sailboat. And so I defy 450 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,400 anyone to tell me that soft is weak because I've 451 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,880 used a lot of softness throughout that. And I 452 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,240 think I'll start with like our definition of 453 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,610 softness. You know, the way we define softness, 454 00:20:27,610 --> 00:20:30,290 it's being, you know, fully awake and available 455 00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:33,530 for life and just in using the, just the effort 456 00:20:33,530 --> 00:20:36,850 that's actually required. And we have in our mind 457 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:39,570 this idea that soft is weak and that means I'm 458 00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:43,210 passive and I get walked over by people and 459 00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:46,810 nothing gets done. And you know, that's not what 460 00:20:46,810 --> 00:20:48,370 we're talking about when we talk about softness. 461 00:20:48,370 --> 00:20:51,900 We're talking about how you do the thing. I mean, 462 00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:54,180 in fact you can, you can try it now if you've got 463 00:20:54,180 --> 00:20:55,820 a coffee cup here, if your listeners can try it 464 00:20:55,820 --> 00:20:57,420 now, you know, just pick up your coffee cup, 465 00:20:57,980 --> 00:20:59,380 you've got a cup in front of you. 466 00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:00,300 >> Rachel Morris: Yeah, I hear you. 467 00:21:01,340 --> 00:21:05,700 >> Ellen Kumber: And now try relaxing your shoulders, maybe your 468 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:10,660 jaw. Yeah, Find in your body where there's muscles 469 00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:15,500 that you've just relaxed. And, you know, we, we 470 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:17,420 use more effort than we need, even in something 471 00:21:17,420 --> 00:21:19,930 simple as picking up a coffee cup. And if you 472 00:21:19,930 --> 00:21:21,650 imagine, then you think about all those muscles, 473 00:21:21,650 --> 00:21:23,770 you just relax. That's effort you're using that 474 00:21:23,770 --> 00:21:26,330 you don't need to use. Now imagine that in every 475 00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:29,170 single thing we do throughout the day, you know, 476 00:21:29,170 --> 00:21:31,410 every physical interaction we have. And then you 477 00:21:31,410 --> 00:21:33,690 can put the coffee cup down. So it's not about all 478 00:21:33,690 --> 00:21:35,570 softness is not being able to pick up my coffee 479 00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:37,890 cup, because it's using just the effort that's 480 00:21:37,890 --> 00:21:39,650 required. You have to use muscles to pick up your 481 00:21:39,650 --> 00:21:42,450 coffee cup, but we use more than we need. And so 482 00:21:42,450 --> 00:21:45,960 softness is about how do you use just what you 483 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,880 need? And when you do that, you're using less 484 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,760 effort, you're using less physical effort, you're 485 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,760 using this physical muscle, but also mentally, you 486 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,600 know, how do we recognise when our brains are 487 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,120 spinning and how do we stop the spin? So we use 488 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:03,640 just the mental effort. And then how do we notice 489 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,520 when our emotions are reacting because of storeys 490 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,000 that we're telling ourselves and that we can let 491 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,510 go, uh, of the storey and use just the emotional 492 00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:13,710 effort that we need and use our emotions to 493 00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:15,630 understand what's going on and to be with them and 494 00:22:15,630 --> 00:22:19,190 to feel them and not to negate them, but not to be 495 00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:21,230 attached to them because of the storeys that we 496 00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:26,990 tell ourselves. And so softness is not about, you 497 00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:28,990 know, um, not having a boundary. Some people say, 498 00:22:28,990 --> 00:22:31,390 oh, but people will walk over me. I'm like, it's 499 00:22:31,390 --> 00:22:33,470 not about not having a boundary. You know, I 500 00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:36,350 learned softness through working with horses and a 501 00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:38,990 horse trainer in the US called Mark Rashfords, who 502 00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:40,750 introduced me to softness. And when you're working 503 00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:44,270 with a horse, you know, this very large, big, 504 00:22:44,270 --> 00:22:48,550 strong animal, you can't use physical force like 505 00:22:48,550 --> 00:22:50,670 they're going to win every time. And if you get 506 00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:54,590 into that battle. But softness, the horse can feel 507 00:22:54,590 --> 00:22:57,310 the softness and stops bracing. You know, when we 508 00:22:57,310 --> 00:22:59,550 push at, uh, life, life pushes back and it just 509 00:22:59,550 --> 00:23:02,150 gets this tense and this brace ness. When we're 510 00:23:02,150 --> 00:23:04,950 soft with others, with ourselves, with life, 511 00:23:05,660 --> 00:23:08,860 things feel a lot easier and we experience life a 512 00:23:08,860 --> 00:23:10,900 lot differently. And that's what we were talking 513 00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:13,180 about when we're talking about softness, you know, 514 00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:15,620 try it with the washing up. You can wash up with 515 00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:18,580 every muscle tense or you can wash up with just 516 00:23:18,580 --> 00:23:20,140 the muscle you need. It's a whole different 517 00:23:20,140 --> 00:23:23,220 experience. And sailing the boat over the last few 518 00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:26,780 weeks, there's been Times where I've had to use my 519 00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:29,300 physical softness actually has more power than. 520 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,340 Than our muscles, we think, Mark says, the 521 00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:33,780 strength of. In muscle and power and softness. And 522 00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:35,940 we think that to be strong we need to use more 523 00:23:35,940 --> 00:23:38,660 muscle and we push and we force more. Actually, if 524 00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:41,180 we soften, our power comes from a different place. 525 00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:44,820 And so I've been able to do things with my boat 526 00:23:44,820 --> 00:23:46,620 that I've been like, pulling on something with 527 00:23:46,620 --> 00:23:49,340 muscle and I'm like, uh, idiot. And I'll soften 528 00:23:49,340 --> 00:23:52,620 and then I can do it. Yeah. So there's a lot of 529 00:23:52,860 --> 00:23:55,260 more physical power that we have with softness as 530 00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:57,740 well. And it's not. Not holding a boundary, it's 531 00:23:57,740 --> 00:23:59,510 not. Not having that conversation. Conversation. 532 00:23:59,830 --> 00:24:01,710 But it's having it from a different place where 533 00:24:01,710 --> 00:24:03,710 we're not in our storey. When our heads and our 534 00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:06,470 storeys about what's going on, we can say, hey, 535 00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:08,950 that's not acceptable. We don't have to yell, we 536 00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:11,670 don't have to scream because we're just in it, you 537 00:24:11,670 --> 00:24:14,790 know, we. We're connected to the truth of it. And 538 00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:17,070 that comes across as a lot more powerful for 539 00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:17,350 people. 540 00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:22,070 >> Rachel Morris: So what you're really saying is that softness just 541 00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:25,600 means you're using less effort for stuff, which, 542 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:27,440 uh. Who doesn't want that? Because then you've 543 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,680 conserved your effort. And I guess that makes 544 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,480 sense because I can be doing something all day 545 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,520 that I'm really enjoying, that I'm really relaxed 546 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,280 and I'm working really hard, but 10 hours will 547 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,320 pass and I won't notice. But if I do something 548 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,560 that I don't like that I find difficult, that's 549 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,680 maybe got some tensions, some conflict, you're 550 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,160 tensed up and the day feels like really, really 551 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,600 hard work. And I'm just thinking of people who 552 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,310 are. Got lots of clients, got lots and lots 553 00:24:56,540 --> 00:24:59,300 delivery. You're saying that actually if you 554 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:03,300 soften yourself up, then actually that same 555 00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:06,380 delivery is just going to take lots less effort. 556 00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:10,100 And I'm thinking you'll probably come across to 557 00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:11,940 people better as well. Could you give me an 558 00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:16,300 example of how you would get yourself into a soft 559 00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,020 space? Say if you're going into. Let's give a 560 00:25:19,020 --> 00:25:20,780 scenario of a partners meeting where there's going 561 00:25:20,780 --> 00:25:22,530 to be some difficult things coming up, so some 562 00:25:22,530 --> 00:25:24,690 difficult discussions. You've already made your 563 00:25:24,690 --> 00:25:26,530 opinions known, so you're not. It's not 564 00:25:26,530 --> 00:25:28,050 necessarily that you're having to give someone bad 565 00:25:28,050 --> 00:25:30,170 news or anything, but you just know that you're 566 00:25:30,170 --> 00:25:32,570 feeling yourself being a bit defensive going into 567 00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:35,050 it, or a consultants meeting or a team meeting 568 00:25:35,050 --> 00:25:37,450 where you know, it's going to be a bit tricky. 569 00:25:37,530 --> 00:25:39,770 Firstly, how would you get yourself into that soft 570 00:25:39,770 --> 00:25:42,810 state of mind versus the hard hardness? How would 571 00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:44,530 you know when you were there and how might that 572 00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:47,810 change the, the quality of the conversation? What 573 00:25:47,810 --> 00:25:49,290 might you be doing differently? 574 00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:54,660 >> Ellen Kumber: So, for me, the first thing is to often take a 575 00:25:54,660 --> 00:25:57,820 breath and, uh, breathe out. Like, if you notice 576 00:25:57,820 --> 00:26:00,940 horses, they'll breathe out. And so the first, 577 00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:02,660 first thing I'll always do if I notice them a bit 578 00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:04,420 tense, is I'll actually breathe out rather than 579 00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:06,300 breathing in. If I breathe in and I'm tense, I'm 580 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:08,260 always breathing into the top of my chest and it 581 00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:11,060 kind of, it heightens me up more. But if the first 582 00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:14,540 thing I do is I breathe out, sometimes I do the 583 00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:18,610 horsey breath. If you're with others in a meeting, 584 00:26:18,610 --> 00:26:19,210 maybe not. 585 00:26:21,130 --> 00:26:24,010 >> Rachel Morris: We know what my side note, my children do laugh at 586 00:26:24,010 --> 00:26:26,130 me. Because if they're being particularly annoying 587 00:26:26,130 --> 00:26:30,170 at dinner, I will just go, they've started, like 588 00:26:30,170 --> 00:26:32,530 copying this long exhale. I do. So I'm sort of 589 00:26:32,530 --> 00:26:35,490 doing that anyway. But yes, it does sound a bit 590 00:26:35,490 --> 00:26:36,330 like a Winnie. 591 00:26:36,810 --> 00:26:38,690 >> Ellen Kumber: Yeah. And that's the first thing we can do because 592 00:26:38,690 --> 00:26:41,170 that releases, it relaxes. We allow ourselves and 593 00:26:41,170 --> 00:26:45,030 our bodies to relax a little bit. And, you know, 594 00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:47,110 often, you know, when we're doing, when we're 595 00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:49,270 teaching the power of softness, we, we access it 596 00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:51,190 through the physical body because the physical 597 00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:53,470 softness is the gateway to everything else. When 598 00:26:53,470 --> 00:26:55,510 we're physically tense, we don't notice our minds 599 00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:57,310 are as tense. We don't notice our emotions are 600 00:26:57,310 --> 00:27:00,030 running away with us. When we're physically soft, 601 00:27:00,030 --> 00:27:02,150 that's where we build our awareness. We go, oh, 602 00:27:02,150 --> 00:27:04,630 I'm in my head here. Oh, I've already decided 603 00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:06,310 what's going to happen in this meeting. I'm 604 00:27:06,310 --> 00:27:09,060 already going in defensive. You know, it's hard to 605 00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:13,530 be, you know, defensive. It was hard to be soft in 606 00:27:13,530 --> 00:27:15,010 your mind if you're defensive already in your 607 00:27:15,010 --> 00:27:17,850 body. Right. And that's what happens over the 608 00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:19,850 course of the day. Often it's like something 609 00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:21,650 happens, we're a little bit more tense. I mean, 610 00:27:21,650 --> 00:27:22,810 what happens? We're a bit more tense. Something 611 00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:24,370 will happen. And by the time, you know, we're 612 00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:26,210 shoulders are around here and we're like. And the 613 00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:29,490 first we get home and our child does something or 614 00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:31,770 our spouse does something, and we like, because 615 00:27:31,770 --> 00:27:34,850 we've been holding it in all day. And then, you 616 00:27:34,850 --> 00:27:37,050 know, the people we love the most get that worst 617 00:27:37,050 --> 00:27:39,760 version. Yeah. Because we're reacting to something 618 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,680 and, you know, so the physical softness is about 619 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,920 constantly coming back down, back down, so we 620 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,320 never get up into that space. So we get home and 621 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,160 something that, uh, same thing happens and maybe 622 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,760 it goes, but it doesn't send us over the edge. So 623 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,560 with the meeting, it's to make sure that you're 624 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,800 going in in as relaxed a state as you can access 625 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,720 in that moment. And so being aware of the 626 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,310 breathing out, being aware of, you know, a good 627 00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:06,830 thing to do is feel your feet on the floor, you 628 00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:09,110 feel your body in the chair. So become aware of 629 00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:13,230 your physical body in space and then take a moment 630 00:28:13,230 --> 00:28:17,430 to relax your mind. And this takes practise. And 631 00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:19,430 this is. And this isn't that you sit there and you 632 00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:21,750 meditate in the middle of a meeting, but this is 633 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:24,070 just recognising what's going on in your mind. And 634 00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:27,150 often I'll just say to myself, stop it, just stop. 635 00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:31,600 You know, there's. There's a challenge in the. We. 636 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,200 We believe that what we think is true. And. And 637 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,920 it's not. Just because we think something doesn't 638 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,000 mean that it's true. And so it's recognising what 639 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,480 those thoughts are and allowing ourselves to 640 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,280 soften those thoughts. And very often softening 641 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,560 into our bodies can help us quieten those 642 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,080 thoughts, quiet, quiet the mind. And so then we're 643 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,200 in a softer place and we are more awareness. 644 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,560 Because if we are recognising that, we're making 645 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,150 up storeys or assumptions, if you like, about what 646 00:28:59,150 --> 00:29:01,470 is going to happen in the meeting, who is going to 647 00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:04,470 say what, how it's going to go. And so we already 648 00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:07,470 go in braced for, like you said, defensiveness. 649 00:29:07,630 --> 00:29:11,150 Yeah. And when we can let go of that and go, hey, 650 00:29:11,150 --> 00:29:13,790 I don't know how this meeting is going to go. I'm, 651 00:29:13,790 --> 00:29:16,550 um, just going to see what's going to happen. But 652 00:29:16,550 --> 00:29:20,070 here is the outcome I want from the meeting that 653 00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:22,150 expands our awareness. And so we might have an 654 00:29:22,150 --> 00:29:24,520 idea come to us in that expanded awareness, which 655 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,640 really, you talk about what intuition is. For me, 656 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,480 it's just that expanded awareness. And so we 657 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,400 receive things that we wouldn't otherwise have 658 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,640 received because we notice something we wouldn't 659 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,000 have noticed. We get to say something we wouldn't 660 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,280 have got to say. And that changes and shifts the 661 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,280 whole aspect of the meeting. And then, even if it 662 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,680 is just as much of a crazy show as we thought it 663 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,120 would be, we walk out of there and we're still not 664 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,680 tense because we've just been able to be with it 665 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,590 rather than be tensing everything. And that gives 666 00:29:52,590 --> 00:29:54,630 us A different experience of life. And that's why 667 00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:57,510 softness is about being fully awake and fully 668 00:29:57,510 --> 00:30:00,630 awake to what's happening and fully available to 669 00:30:00,630 --> 00:30:03,830 experience all of life. It's not about shutting 670 00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:07,189 down and being in this meditative Zen state. It's 671 00:30:07,189 --> 00:30:11,230 about, you know, being exactly in that meeting and 672 00:30:11,230 --> 00:30:14,630 being a more, um, relaxed version of ourselves 673 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:17,280 physically, mentally and emotionally so that we 674 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,680 can actually be more effective. 675 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,880 >> Rachel Morris: And how would being instant, that softness, the 676 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,760 relaxed state, how would that help us hold our 677 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360 boundaries or maybe say things that we wouldn't 678 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,640 normally say that we really need to say? 679 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,880 >> Ellen Kumber: So when we are. When we're tense, we're in that 680 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,960 kind of, like, heart rate. Yeah. Our sympathetic 681 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,000 nervous system is triggered. Yeah. Preaching to 682 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,520 the, you know, not teaching suck effort. That and 683 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,960 that then it reduces our iq. I mean, I've. You'd 684 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,600 know this better than me, but I've heard that it's 685 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,920 like some in 10 IQ points, we go down when we're 686 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,080 angry, when we're in that triggered sympathetic 687 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,040 state. Right. So it's not helping us being in that 688 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720 state. So by keeping ourselves more relaxed, we're 689 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,080 actually giving ourselves more access, you know, 690 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,400 to. To our rational mind as well, as well as the 691 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,920 intuitive stuff that can come in for us, you know, 692 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:14,430 and that's giving us the ability to be more open 693 00:31:14,430 --> 00:31:17,550 about what might happen and be more curious about 694 00:31:17,550 --> 00:31:21,670 what might happen and allow ourselves to be 695 00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:27,670 available for insights for understanding of what 696 00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:28,950 might happen next. 697 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,830 >> Rachel Morris: Um, and if you just, in this meeting, you're 698 00:31:32,830 --> 00:31:34,550 really relaxed, whatever, and then you suddenly 699 00:31:34,550 --> 00:31:37,830 get blindsided by what somebody said, and you can 700 00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:39,950 feel your heckles rising, and you could feel 701 00:31:39,950 --> 00:31:42,860 yourself, myself going, what. What would you do? 702 00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:46,180 >> Ellen Kumber: Breathe out. So is the first thing I'm going to 703 00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:50,220 do, uh, if I, you know, if I remember, if I'm 704 00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:51,980 aware enough, the first thing I'll do if I'm 705 00:31:51,980 --> 00:31:53,260 feeling. Because you know, that feeling when you 706 00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:54,900 want it, you want to respond, you want to answer, 707 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,980 you want to. And if you breathe out, everything 708 00:31:57,980 --> 00:32:01,860 comes down. And then, you know, asking about 709 00:32:01,860 --> 00:32:03,740 boundaries, it's not about not setting the 710 00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:07,590 boundary. Um, and, you know, particularly as 711 00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:10,870 women. Right. If we get angry, if we're like, no, 712 00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:13,910 this is, uh, this is my boundary. You know, 713 00:32:13,910 --> 00:32:15,830 there's a lot of stuff that comes with that. 714 00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:19,710 Versus if we're calm and we go, no, this is my 715 00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:22,390 boundary. It's not about not having the boundary. 716 00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:26,270 It's about how we set the boundary and how we hold 717 00:32:26,270 --> 00:32:28,870 the boundary. And when we're in that tense state, 718 00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:33,840 we feel we need to hold it, um, uh, vigorously, if 719 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,800 you like, aggressively, assertively. And that can 720 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,440 come across in a certain way to people. And again, 721 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,960 that starts that fight, that starts that, you 722 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,920 know. And so if somebody comes at us and 723 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,640 blindsides us in a meeting, it's taking that 724 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,840 breath out. We feel we need to respond immediately 725 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,800 and we don't. First, we can take a breath out, we 726 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,080 can reconnect with our body. And the more. This is 727 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,240 all about practise. And this is why, when we build 728 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,000 softness, that we build off a practise of 729 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,640 softness. Because you, you can't do it in the 730 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,440 moment if you haven't practised it, right? You 731 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,640 can't be excellent on the field playing whatever 732 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,760 sport you play if you don't practise off the 733 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,000 field. And so this is about practising softness, 734 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,200 you know, in the moments where it doesn't matter. 735 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,680 So that in the moments where it does matter more, 736 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,200 you've got more access to it. I practise softness 737 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,720 all of the time. That little thing we did with the 738 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,050 coffee cup, right? All of those things, I, as we 739 00:33:25,050 --> 00:33:27,490 practise softness, so that in the moment when 740 00:33:27,490 --> 00:33:29,570 somebody does something and I can feel it, I 741 00:33:29,570 --> 00:33:32,210 notice myself going up. Because if I wasn't 742 00:33:32,210 --> 00:33:34,570 practising softness, I'm not coming back to that. 743 00:33:34,890 --> 00:33:38,090 That kind of the, the steady state, if you like. I 744 00:33:38,090 --> 00:33:41,050 don't notice when I'm flipped, um, up out of that. 745 00:33:41,050 --> 00:33:44,650 And then it's just this like, runaway, runaway 746 00:33:44,650 --> 00:33:47,210 train. And it's going to end up crashing where 747 00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:49,050 it's going to end up crashing. But if I can catch 748 00:33:49,050 --> 00:33:51,020 it and be aware of it, I can. And breathe out and 749 00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:57,100 go, okay, no, I don't need to respond or react to 750 00:33:57,100 --> 00:33:59,140 it. I can choose how I want to respond to this. 751 00:34:01,940 --> 00:34:05,220 >> Rachel Morris: So you're going to be much more effective in that 752 00:34:05,220 --> 00:34:07,460 state, aren't, um, you. Because I can already see 753 00:34:07,460 --> 00:34:09,820 when in meetings and things, when I get defensive, 754 00:34:09,820 --> 00:34:12,700 when I get annoyed, when I get triggered, I'm far 755 00:34:12,700 --> 00:34:15,420 more likely to give a short answer, a rude answer, 756 00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:18,010 not think, think things through. And then you get 757 00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:20,490 labelled as aggressive, angry, and suddenly, like 758 00:34:20,490 --> 00:34:22,770 you're the one in the wrong, as opposed to this 759 00:34:22,770 --> 00:34:25,130 person who's trying to break your boundary and 760 00:34:25,130 --> 00:34:28,210 stuff. So I can see how. Yes, that's it. Accessing 761 00:34:28,210 --> 00:34:30,410 the softness makes you less defensive. You get to 762 00:34:30,410 --> 00:34:34,450 take that pause, you get to, uh, go back into 763 00:34:34,690 --> 00:34:37,530 parasympathetic is what we're talking about, and 764 00:34:37,530 --> 00:34:43,539 then hopefully access your, your intuition when 765 00:34:43,539 --> 00:34:47,059 you're really exhausted and you're trying to trust 766 00:34:47,059 --> 00:34:50,659 your intuition. Again, it's back to that question 767 00:34:50,659 --> 00:34:52,779 about how do you know that it's right? Because, 768 00:34:52,990 --> 00:34:56,939 uh, you know, in medicine certainly we are not 769 00:34:56,939 --> 00:34:59,539 being taught to trust our guts over the evidence. 770 00:34:59,539 --> 00:35:02,219 We practise evidence based medicine. Um, so we 771 00:35:02,219 --> 00:35:04,459 need to follow the guidelines. We need to like, 772 00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:08,790 um, think rationally and logically. Um, although I 773 00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:11,110 must say a lot of, a lot of what we do is, is 774 00:35:11,110 --> 00:35:13,350 intuition. You know, you just have this sense that 775 00:35:13,350 --> 00:35:15,790 that patient is not right, but they're presenting 776 00:35:15,790 --> 00:35:17,790 the same as that other patient that you're happy 777 00:35:17,790 --> 00:35:20,550 with. And for some reason you know that that's the 778 00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:22,790 person that you've got to, that you've got to go 779 00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:26,350 and see. But if you make a mistake when you've 780 00:35:26,350 --> 00:35:28,510 trusted your intuition, that's going to be quite 781 00:35:28,510 --> 00:35:31,030 difficult to defend. So what's the difference 782 00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:34,270 between, you know, following guidelines and 783 00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:38,540 deductive reasoning? Um, and trusting your. How do 784 00:35:38,540 --> 00:35:40,740 you know when it's, it's good intuition and you 785 00:35:40,740 --> 00:35:42,300 should be trusting it? How do you know when 786 00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:44,780 actually you probably do need to go and use some 787 00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:48,100 sort of hard facts and stuff or this all part of 788 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:48,940 the same thing. 789 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:53,140 >> Ellen Kumber: So there's a, there's a, there's a quote, it says, 790 00:35:53,140 --> 00:35:55,460 you know, intuition tells the thinking mind where 791 00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:59,740 to look next. And that to me kind of fits this 792 00:35:59,740 --> 00:36:03,900 situation and you know, the level of criticality 793 00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:07,730 that you know, you're working with when you're, 794 00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:10,050 you know, taking care of somebody's life. Right. 795 00:36:10,530 --> 00:36:13,290 It, so it's not about not using any of the 796 00:36:13,290 --> 00:36:15,410 rational stuff, not using any of the evidence 797 00:36:15,410 --> 00:36:18,090 based stuff, but it's allowing your intuition to 798 00:36:18,090 --> 00:36:21,650 guide where you, where you might look next. And 799 00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:24,010 there's a definitive intuition I do love, which is 800 00:36:24,010 --> 00:36:26,890 like, it's, is what we receive when our, our 801 00:36:26,890 --> 00:36:29,850 thoughts and feelings are out of the way. And so 802 00:36:29,850 --> 00:36:32,910 it's recognising, you know, what, what storeys we 803 00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:35,430 making up about us about other things. And if we 804 00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:39,150 can quieten those and then we receive, it's like, 805 00:36:39,150 --> 00:36:41,430 okay, um, I'm going to go and I'm going to go and 806 00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:44,550 cheque out that. So like you said, there's decades 807 00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:47,189 and decades of experience of saying there's 808 00:36:47,189 --> 00:36:49,350 something this, this patient I need to look at. 809 00:36:49,350 --> 00:36:55,310 And it's not ignoring that. Yeah. And it's, it's, 810 00:36:55,310 --> 00:36:57,470 it's not not taking care of the other person, but 811 00:36:57,470 --> 00:36:59,390 it's not again, ignoring what your intuition is 812 00:36:59,390 --> 00:37:01,990 saying, what that gut feeling is saying, because 813 00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:04,630 that's coming from decades of experience. Now if 814 00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:07,070 we're in our minds, what we tend to do is we will 815 00:37:07,310 --> 00:37:09,230 ignore that because we're like, well that doesn't 816 00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:12,190 make sense or how, how am I going to defend that 817 00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:14,229 later? And if you're like, okay, well all of those 818 00:37:14,229 --> 00:37:16,230 are just storeys. So if I take a breath and I let 819 00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:18,590 go of those storeys and I just ask myself, you 820 00:37:18,590 --> 00:37:21,470 know what, you know, if I'm just choosing to be of 821 00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:26,840 service here, what's obvious and then you do that 822 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,040 and the more you do it, the easier that becomes. 823 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:33,520 Mhm. 824 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,960 >> Rachel Morris: So I love that. So it's back to what you were 825 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,040 saying about, you know, uh, it was ringing bells 826 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,080 like the master in his emissary. So you're using 827 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,840 intuition as the master and then your rational 828 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,360 thinking mind as the, as the servant. So your 829 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,720 thinking mind is guided by your intuition. So you 830 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,620 don't totally rely on your intuition, but it sort 831 00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:58,660 of points you to what to do next. So if, if you 832 00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:00,580 have someone who is overwhelmed, who's feeling 833 00:38:00,580 --> 00:38:03,820 responsible for everything and everybody and has 834 00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:06,900 the to do list as long as their arm, um, how would 835 00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,739 you be telling them to firstly get into softness 836 00:38:09,739 --> 00:38:12,100 and secondly then use their intuition to try and 837 00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:13,980 manage some of that overwhelm. 838 00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:16,500 >> Ellen Kumber: So the first thing is the practise of it is 839 00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:19,740 building a practise where you allow yourself to 840 00:38:19,740 --> 00:38:23,320 come back into softness. So breathing, you know, 841 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,280 there's the in the moment softness and then 842 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,320 there's building into your life some a little bit 843 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,840 of space for yourself to, you know, take that five 844 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,240 minute walk a day. It can just be five minutes, 845 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,040 you know, just take five minutes without doing 846 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,800 anything else. Yeah. We're often taught that rest 847 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,480 is bad. Right. Or rest is the reward for working 848 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,080 hard rather than rest being what's required for us 849 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,630 to be effective when we're working. And I think if 850 00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:51,310 we can switch that and switch our mindset around 851 00:38:51,310 --> 00:38:54,470 some of that, that supports us. To take that five 852 00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:57,870 minutes. Yeah, to take that breath to, to take 853 00:38:57,870 --> 00:39:00,990 that moment. And it's building that practise of 854 00:39:00,990 --> 00:39:02,870 constantly focusing on our breath, coming back 855 00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:05,350 into ourselves, coming back into our bodies, you 856 00:39:05,350 --> 00:39:07,670 know, feeling our feet on the floor, you know, 857 00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:11,430 putting our awareness in, in the centre of us, uh, 858 00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:13,310 allowing ourselves to come back into space. And 859 00:39:13,310 --> 00:39:15,620 it's like constant. And it's not a one time thing, 860 00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:19,100 it's, it's, it's a constant practise of doing 861 00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:22,940 that. And then with the overwhelm, you know, 862 00:39:22,940 --> 00:39:24,700 there's, there's, there's different reasons we 863 00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:26,780 become overwhelmed. Right. We're either doing 864 00:39:26,780 --> 00:39:29,140 things that we're saying we're saying yes to 865 00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:33,060 things that we'd rather we said no to. Um, we are 866 00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:37,980 over delivering on something that, you know, here 867 00:39:37,980 --> 00:39:39,620 would have got us the end result, but we feel we 868 00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:42,060 need to deliver it at this level. So we're over 869 00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:44,620 delivering, you know, or we're finding things to 870 00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:46,980 do because we, we feel like, oh, I can't just rest 871 00:39:46,980 --> 00:39:50,860 now, so I must do something. We don't delegate, 872 00:39:50,860 --> 00:39:53,420 you know, all of these things. And these will come 873 00:39:53,420 --> 00:39:56,700 from different storeys that we have, uh, storeys 874 00:39:56,700 --> 00:40:00,140 about, you know, what we have to do to be 875 00:40:00,140 --> 00:40:02,500 productive members of society. You know, we have 876 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,580 to work hard, we have to be productive, we have to 877 00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:07,050 be doing things. So rest is seen as, you know, you 878 00:40:07,050 --> 00:40:09,690 can't, you can't rest. Just understanding some of 879 00:40:09,690 --> 00:40:11,810 the storeys that might drive that overwhelm in the 880 00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:14,890 first place and being softer can help understand 881 00:40:14,970 --> 00:40:17,050 some of those storeys that we have in our minds. 882 00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:20,370 And, um. But it's also something, you know, we can 883 00:40:20,370 --> 00:40:21,970 work with others on to see because like you said 884 00:40:21,970 --> 00:40:24,530 in that moment, you know, I've got a friend, 885 00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:26,090 Jacqueline, she says you can't see the label of 886 00:40:26,090 --> 00:40:28,570 the jam jar you're in second. 887 00:40:28,570 --> 00:40:29,050 >> Rachel Morris: Nice. 888 00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:32,360 >> Ellen Kumber: And. And so we don't all see it in the moment now. 889 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,720 Practise helps us see it more, but also maybe 890 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:37,640 having somebody else point something out for us. 891 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,480 Which is why I have a coach. I've had a coach for 892 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,480 12 years since I started doing this work, because 893 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,680 I can't always see the label of the jam jar I'm in 894 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,400 as well. I see it more now than before, but I 895 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,880 still don't always see it. And that can support us 896 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,680 to have people around us who are also working to 897 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,420 be softer, who are also, you know, working to do 898 00:40:59,420 --> 00:41:02,340 things a little bit differently. So we start to 899 00:41:02,340 --> 00:41:04,460 spot the storeys that we're telling ourselves, I 900 00:41:04,460 --> 00:41:06,500 have to do this by here. And we go, hang on a 901 00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:09,260 second. Do I though? Is that an assumption? Could 902 00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:12,060 I give it to somebody else? Like, do I actually 903 00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:14,060 need to do that? Did I just put my hand up and say 904 00:41:14,060 --> 00:41:16,980 yes to that? Because I think I should. You know, 905 00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:19,780 am I also doing all of this stuff at work? And yet 906 00:41:20,020 --> 00:41:23,620 I'm also baking cookies for the kids. Fate. When 907 00:41:23,620 --> 00:41:27,330 actually I don't like baking, you know, so why am 908 00:41:27,330 --> 00:41:29,250 I doing that? Because I'd feel guilty if I didn't. 909 00:41:29,250 --> 00:41:32,570 Well, drop the guilt. So we, we, we can be driven 910 00:41:32,570 --> 00:41:34,770 by these different aspects of things, right? 911 00:41:34,770 --> 00:41:38,450 These, the guilt expectations. I mean, I call it 912 00:41:38,450 --> 00:41:40,970 the cage, right? The conditions we think have to 913 00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:43,570 be in place. The assumptions we have, the guilt 914 00:41:43,570 --> 00:41:46,010 and the expectations and that cave build this cage 915 00:41:46,010 --> 00:41:48,210 around us that can make things very difficult for 916 00:41:48,210 --> 00:41:51,240 us, you know, to. To not bake the cookies or to 917 00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,320 not do that extra thing or not to take on that 918 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,440 extra workload or to be the person who always says 919 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,960 yes to everything. And the. There's a piece that 920 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:03,240 we haven't talked about with this that I think is 921 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:06,199 really important here because it's. It helps us to 922 00:42:06,199 --> 00:42:07,840 understand what it is that we really want to 923 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,640 create, and that is us being clear on what we want 924 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,120 in life, like, what we want to create. Because 925 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,520 otherwise we. Like this pinball machine. They've 926 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,720 been the ball and the pinball machine just being 927 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:21,560 pinged around the whole time. Um, just doing, you 928 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,440 know, because of guilt, because of assumptions, 929 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,880 because of expectations. Rather than being clear 930 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,200 about what it is we actually want to create in our 931 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,560 lives, uh, we're either proving or protecting 932 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,320 ourselves, or we're being of service to what we 933 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,520 want to create it both in that moment and in the 934 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,560 whole of our lives. But if we don't know what we 935 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,560 want to create, you know, going back to the 936 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,200 meeting, you know, what is it we want to create in 937 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,760 the meeting? What is the end result we want for 938 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,360 that meeting? What is the end result for our day? 939 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,200 What is the end result for that patient? What is 940 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,760 our end result for our family? What is the end 941 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,120 result for our life? If we have no idea on any of 942 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,400 that, we don't need to know precisely. But 943 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,080 directionally, then it's hard to know what we're 944 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,120 trying to be of service to. So when we're 945 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:06,000 overwhelmed with, like, you know, 50 things, it's 946 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,700 like, which of those are really important? Well, I 947 00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:10,260 don't know if I don't know what's really important 948 00:43:10,340 --> 00:43:14,220 to me in my work or in my life, you know, how can 949 00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:16,300 we go? Well, hang on. Actually, I thought that was 950 00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:18,460 important, but it isn't. Because this. This part 951 00:43:18,460 --> 00:43:20,620 of my life is more important, or this aspect of 952 00:43:20,620 --> 00:43:22,260 this part of my life is more important than this 953 00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:24,980 part. So actually, I don't need to be doing those 954 00:43:24,980 --> 00:43:28,620 things. It's an exercise I do with people where we 955 00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:31,220 make a list of everything we've got going on, and 956 00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:33,380 then we connect what it is we truly love. That. 957 00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:35,740 That kind of. That open energy, our intuition, 958 00:43:35,740 --> 00:43:37,500 our, uh, uh, essence, whatever you want to call 959 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:40,140 it. That place where we're just feeling still, and 960 00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:41,900 you look down the list and you cross out things 961 00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:44,300 that just don't, you know, don't bring you joy, 962 00:43:44,540 --> 00:43:46,740 and you see what's left. And of the things that 963 00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:48,740 are left, you go, okay, and what's my next step in 964 00:43:48,740 --> 00:43:51,300 each of those things? Okay, let me take the next 965 00:43:51,300 --> 00:43:53,020 step. Because often we get overwhelmed because 966 00:43:53,020 --> 00:43:56,220 we're thinking about a project, like, must write 967 00:43:56,220 --> 00:44:01,180 the book. And it's like. It's like overwhelmed. 968 00:44:01,180 --> 00:44:03,140 But if we're like, well, what's the next step? The 969 00:44:03,140 --> 00:44:06,060 next step is I sit down and I write down, what are 970 00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:07,660 some of the things I want to talk about? Oh, I can 971 00:44:07,660 --> 00:44:10,820 do that. That doesn't feel overwhelming. So we can 972 00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:13,020 overwhelm ourselves with multiple steps with 973 00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:14,940 things rather than just going, what is my very 974 00:44:14,940 --> 00:44:18,420 next step? Uh, and I do that a lot when I'm 975 00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:21,060 sailing because it can be very overwhelming to do 976 00:44:21,060 --> 00:44:23,660 everything on my own. You know, the toilets are 977 00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:26,260 broken, the engine needs fixing, this. I've got a 978 00:44:26,260 --> 00:44:29,500 list of jobs of things to do on the boat. And if 979 00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:32,020 I'm. If I write my list and I'm like, oh, my God, 980 00:44:32,020 --> 00:44:34,320 you know, it's just my brain explodes, and then, 981 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,840 well, then there's work, and then there's this, 982 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,720 and then there's other things, and then clients 983 00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:39,560 want to be in. All of this stuff's going on. If I 984 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,160 just take a breath and go, okay, but what is my 985 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,960 very next step? So phone this person. Well, I can 986 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,879 do that. That's easy. But fixing the whole toilet 987 00:44:49,879 --> 00:44:52,720 situation feels overwhelming. But my next step, 988 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,560 put some drain cleaner down it. Okay, that's 989 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,600 simple, right? And so it's breaking things down 990 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,920 into. Into steps that are, uh, easy, rather than 991 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,860 building it up into this whole project that, uh, 992 00:45:05,860 --> 00:45:08,040 starts to feel very complex and overwhelming. 993 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,280 >> Rachel Morris: That's interesting, because a lot of people, a lot 994 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,320 of our listeners would say that the overwhelming 995 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,600 anxiety they feel is not about what's happening in 996 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,160 the moment, it's about they're worried about not 997 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,680 coping with all the stuff that they will have to 998 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,730 do. So even though they're coping right now, we 999 00:45:26,730 --> 00:45:29,450 did a survey about, you know, what keeps you up at 1000 00:45:29,450 --> 00:45:31,410 night worrying. And quite a few people said, I 1001 00:45:31,410 --> 00:45:33,850 worry that me and my team aren't going to be able 1002 00:45:33,850 --> 00:45:36,570 to cope with the workload. It wasn't about the 1003 00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:39,450 workload now. It was about, I worry that we're not 1004 00:45:39,450 --> 00:45:41,330 going to be able to do it in the future. 1005 00:45:43,170 --> 00:45:45,690 >> Ellen Kumber: We are so funny as humans, aren't we? Like, it's 1006 00:45:45,690 --> 00:45:47,650 like, I've got nothing to panic about now, so let 1007 00:45:47,650 --> 00:45:50,050 me panic about something in the future, right? And 1008 00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:51,850 so this is the thing with softness as well, 1009 00:45:51,850 --> 00:45:55,210 softness is about being present to the now. And if 1010 00:45:55,210 --> 00:45:56,890 you imagine if you could live each moment in the 1011 00:45:56,890 --> 00:45:59,690 now, so maybe they won't cope in the future, well, 1012 00:45:59,690 --> 00:46:02,370 then deal with it in the future. But why would you 1013 00:46:02,370 --> 00:46:04,490 ruin today by worrying about something that might 1014 00:46:04,490 --> 00:46:06,770 or might not happen in the future? Now, if you're 1015 00:46:06,770 --> 00:46:08,770 open and you're like, oh, uh, hang on a second, we 1016 00:46:08,770 --> 00:46:10,090 don't do that, then that's going to be a problem 1017 00:46:10,090 --> 00:46:11,610 later. That's different. That's, that's your 1018 00:46:11,610 --> 00:46:13,690 intuition in the moment. But if you're spinning in 1019 00:46:13,690 --> 00:46:15,810 your mind and you can't see what is this is going 1020 00:46:15,810 --> 00:46:18,330 to happen, well, then you'll deal with it. 1021 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,440 >> Rachel Morris: I think a lot of the problems we have in very high 1022 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,280 stress, high stakes jobs, when we do feel 1023 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,680 responsible for everybody and everything, is we've 1024 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,680 actually lost ourselves. We actually don't know 1025 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,560 what's important to us anymore. So I think that 1026 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,880 writing down that list is really helpful. You 1027 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,960 know, what brings me joy, what are my next steps? 1028 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,080 But how would you encourage someone just to work 1029 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,900 out what is really important to them so they can 1030 00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:48,060 head towards that? Because I think a lot of people 1031 00:46:48,060 --> 00:46:50,020 are just saying, I just need to survive. I just 1032 00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:50,700 need to get through. 1033 00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:54,580 >> Ellen Kumber: Yeah. And, you know, we want to move from that 1034 00:46:54,580 --> 00:46:58,660 surviving to thriving. Right. There's a. The first 1035 00:46:58,660 --> 00:47:02,220 thing I would, I would say is, you know, choose to 1036 00:47:02,220 --> 00:47:03,980 know what it is that you would love. Right. That's 1037 00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:05,340 the biggest question. When I talk to people about 1038 00:47:05,340 --> 00:47:06,580 what I do, they go, but I don't know what I would 1039 00:47:06,580 --> 00:47:09,020 love. You know, and that's always where I start 1040 00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:11,940 with people. Because we have got so disconnected 1041 00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:13,920 from, from what it is that we would love. Because, 1042 00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,400 you know, deep down we don't think we can have it. 1043 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,520 We don't think it's possible. We think it might 1044 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,760 upset somebody if we were to do it. And so it's 1045 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,480 easier not to know what we would love and go, I'd 1046 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,040 really love that, but I don't think I can have it. 1047 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,280 So the first step is owning that and going, okay, 1048 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,080 well, uh, I choose to know what it is that I would 1049 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:32,400 love. 1050 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:35,840 >> Rachel Morris: How can you find out? 1051 00:47:38,810 --> 00:47:40,090 >> Ellen Kumber: We don't need to find out. 1052 00:47:40,570 --> 00:47:42,730 >> Rachel Morris: Okay. Yeah, that's okay. 1053 00:47:43,050 --> 00:47:43,930 >> Ellen Kumber: Let's figure it out. 1054 00:47:44,410 --> 00:47:46,850 >> Rachel Morris: Yes. Okay, so this is what you're talking about, 1055 00:47:46,850 --> 00:47:50,170 Right? Okay. So I'm trying to figure out and try 1056 00:47:50,170 --> 00:47:51,810 really hard to work out what I love. You're saying 1057 00:47:51,810 --> 00:47:53,210 that's the wrong way to approach that? 1058 00:47:53,850 --> 00:47:57,490 >> Ellen Kumber: Yeah. You know, we've been taught we need to 1059 00:47:57,490 --> 00:48:01,290 Figure out how and when we're in the how. We're in 1060 00:48:01,290 --> 00:48:04,650 our old like uh, our uh, cage, our preconceived 1061 00:48:04,650 --> 00:48:06,930 notions about what it is and our beliefs and all 1062 00:48:06,930 --> 00:48:09,430 of our systems. And so we can only see what we 1063 00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:13,430 already know when we let go of the how. You know, 1064 00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:16,750 we get to experience, experience something else. 1065 00:48:17,070 --> 00:48:20,950 You know, we, we pass a yoga studio and go, oh, I 1066 00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:23,990 fancy trying yoga. And then we do and then we go, 1067 00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:27,110 I really love yoga. Yeah. Um, and then, and 1068 00:48:27,110 --> 00:48:28,390 everybody goes, oh my God, does that mean I should 1069 00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:31,670 be a yoga teacher? No, just calm yourself, calm 1070 00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:35,000 your role. You know, just get her across a week 1071 00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:37,360 and then if that develops into something. Okay, 1072 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,840 right. But it's, it's. If we're trying to figure 1073 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,000 it out, we're in our heads trying to figure 1074 00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,320 something out. We're not receiving the truth of 1075 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,440 something. And so the first thing you can do is 1076 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,800 choose it and say, look, I choose to know what it 1077 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,960 is I would really love. I'm going to choose that. 1078 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,360 And then I'm just going to let go of trying to 1079 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,240 figure it out. And I'm just choosing to receive 1080 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:02,370 and get more information over time as to what it 1081 00:49:02,370 --> 00:49:04,290 is that I do love. And it will start with little 1082 00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:06,130 things. It doesn't have to be this big like all 1083 00:49:06,130 --> 00:49:09,090 life changing thing. I can start with the little 1084 00:49:09,090 --> 00:49:11,530 things and we can ask ourselves, you know, what 1085 00:49:11,530 --> 00:49:12,610 would I love for dinner? 1086 00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:13,610 >> Rachel Morris: Yeah. 1087 00:49:13,610 --> 00:49:17,010 >> Rachel Morris: So I can see how this is all going to be really, 1088 00:49:17,010 --> 00:49:18,410 really helpful, particularly when we're 1089 00:49:18,410 --> 00:49:20,490 overwhelmed. So dropping into intuition, thinking, 1090 00:49:20,490 --> 00:49:23,490 well actually what is it I really want and is this 1091 00:49:23,490 --> 00:49:26,360 really urgent or isn't it? And I think when 1092 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,160 everyone's asking you to do things, when you've 1093 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:30,760 got a list as long as your arm, it's quite 1094 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,360 difficult to see whether that thing is important 1095 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,000 to you, whether it's yours to do or whether it's 1096 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,200 just for the, for the other person. Can intuition 1097 00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:41,000 help with that? 1098 00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:47,120 >> Ellen Kumber: Yeah, it's, it's, you know, we can treat things 1099 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,920 like an emergency when they're really an event. 1100 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,780 And so when we are in that sense of emergency, 1101 00:49:53,660 --> 00:49:55,820 that's when our sympathetic is triggered. 1102 00:49:55,820 --> 00:49:57,940 Everything is going on and we're just like we're 1103 00:49:57,940 --> 00:50:01,300 reacting to something versus going, this is just 1104 00:50:01,300 --> 00:50:03,780 an event and therefore I can choose how I want to 1105 00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:07,620 respond to it. And so with my horse, like I can be 1106 00:50:07,620 --> 00:50:09,540 like get scared about something or in the moment 1107 00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:10,980 with something. I have to remind myself this is 1108 00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:14,500 just an event. Right. And there are times where 1109 00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:17,650 other people can be in an emergency. And we can 1110 00:50:17,650 --> 00:50:21,490 get pulled into their emergency where actually we 1111 00:50:21,490 --> 00:50:24,130 can go, no, this is just an event. Even in a 1112 00:50:24,130 --> 00:50:26,730 situation where it is an emergency for the other 1113 00:50:26,730 --> 00:50:28,810 person, like a lot of times, like in life, people 1114 00:50:28,810 --> 00:50:30,530 are just like, it's an emergency. And we're like, 1115 00:50:30,530 --> 00:50:33,370 is it, though? But what you're dealing with, with 1116 00:50:33,370 --> 00:50:35,610 patients, it often is an emergency for them, 1117 00:50:35,690 --> 00:50:39,130 right? But if we treat it like an emergency for 1118 00:50:39,130 --> 00:50:41,490 us, then we actually can't support and serve that 1119 00:50:41,490 --> 00:50:43,220 person to the best of our ability because we're 1120 00:50:43,220 --> 00:50:46,300 getting pulled into that. So if we can stay in the 1121 00:50:46,300 --> 00:50:49,220 event space, then we have access to intuition, 1122 00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:52,180 then we have access to more, um, of our 1123 00:50:52,180 --> 00:50:54,700 understanding, more of awareness. Right. There's, 1124 00:50:54,700 --> 00:50:57,660 um, a beautiful quote about genius, which is, a 1125 00:50:57,660 --> 00:50:59,740 genius is someone who spots connections others 1126 00:50:59,740 --> 00:51:02,580 don't see. And that's what our intuition allows us 1127 00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:04,900 to do. It allows us to expand our awareness so we 1128 00:51:04,900 --> 00:51:08,660 spot connections that other people don't see. 1129 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,520 Right. And yeah, if we've got a really high iq, we 1130 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,640 might do that anyway. But without that, we can 1131 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,920 expand our, uh, awareness. And we expand our 1132 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,360 awareness by letting go of our thoughts and our 1133 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,800 feelings about what is happening, letting go of 1134 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,800 the storeys we're making up about what is 1135 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,680 happening, letting go of the emotions that we are 1136 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,560 attaching to about what is happening. Because we 1137 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,240 were going to have an instinct, you know, reactive 1138 00:51:32,240 --> 00:51:35,120 emotion to something before conscious thought even 1139 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,170 comes into play. And there's not much we can, can 1140 00:51:37,170 --> 00:51:37,770 do about that. 1141 00:51:37,770 --> 00:51:38,010 >> Rachel Morris: Right. 1142 00:51:38,010 --> 00:51:41,370 >> Ellen Kumber: We have this instinctive, like. And then, you 1143 00:51:41,370 --> 00:51:43,770 know, that emotion will run anywhere up to about 1144 00:51:43,770 --> 00:51:47,410 90 seconds, I'm told. Um, uh, uh. But it's the 1145 00:51:47,410 --> 00:51:50,370 storey that then perpetuates that emotion. So if 1146 00:51:50,370 --> 00:51:53,370 we can recognise and let go of the storey, we can 1147 00:51:53,450 --> 00:51:55,610 let that emotion work through us and then we're 1148 00:51:55,610 --> 00:51:58,330 back at it being an event. So we don't need to 1149 00:51:58,330 --> 00:52:00,130 beat ourselves up about having that initial 1150 00:52:00,130 --> 00:52:02,570 reaction. Like, I can get defensive, what you're 1151 00:52:02,570 --> 00:52:03,850 saying, someone blind something, I'll get 1152 00:52:03,850 --> 00:52:05,970 defensive and then I can just. I'll take a breath, 1153 00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:07,770 I'll let go of the storey that it means anything 1154 00:52:07,770 --> 00:52:11,250 about me. That feeling of anxiousness, anxiety, 1155 00:52:11,250 --> 00:52:13,650 fear will pass through my body and then I'll be 1156 00:52:13,650 --> 00:52:16,490 like, okay, cool, great. Now what it is, what is 1157 00:52:16,490 --> 00:52:17,970 it that I want to do here? 1158 00:52:18,130 --> 00:52:21,090 >> Rachel Morris: Yeah, Uh, I think that's the hard bit though, 1159 00:52:21,090 --> 00:52:24,770 isn't it? Because it's this storey that it means 1160 00:52:24,770 --> 00:52:30,500 anything about me. I think most of us in the 1161 00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:33,060 responsibility chat, we're there because we want 1162 00:52:33,060 --> 00:52:36,380 to be good people, you know, um, I am the sort of 1163 00:52:36,380 --> 00:52:39,460 person who helps people. I am the sort of person 1164 00:52:39,460 --> 00:52:43,420 who doesn't let people down. And that is hugely 1165 00:52:43,420 --> 00:52:47,500 ingrained into us. And recently we've been, I've 1166 00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:49,660 been hearing and reading a lot of stuff around 1167 00:52:49,660 --> 00:52:53,820 somatic work. So feeling the feelings and noticing 1168 00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:57,020 them in your body and what they're telling you. So 1169 00:52:57,020 --> 00:52:59,020 presuming you're not saying that, you're not 1170 00:52:59,020 --> 00:53:00,780 ignoring your feelings, you're maybe taking what 1171 00:53:00,780 --> 00:53:03,260 they're telling you, but then you're not believing 1172 00:53:03,260 --> 00:53:05,620 that they're actually true. You're questioning 1173 00:53:05,620 --> 00:53:07,780 stuff. So how does that all work? 1174 00:53:08,980 --> 00:53:10,540 >> Ellen Kumber: Yeah, it's really important. It's not about 1175 00:53:10,540 --> 00:53:12,860 ignoring our feelings like we want. 1176 00:53:12,860 --> 00:53:13,260 >> Rachel Morris: We're here. 1177 00:53:13,260 --> 00:53:15,420 >> Ellen Kumber: This is why softness is about being fully awake 1178 00:53:15,420 --> 00:53:16,940 and available to life. Right. We want to 1179 00:53:16,940 --> 00:53:19,020 experience our emotions, we want to experience the 1180 00:53:19,020 --> 00:53:21,540 ups and downs of life. We just want to experience 1181 00:53:21,620 --> 00:53:24,090 the ups and downs as they actually are, not as our 1182 00:53:24,090 --> 00:53:26,930 storeys make them. You know, so something good 1183 00:53:26,930 --> 00:53:29,410 happens and we're like, oh, that was fun. But if 1184 00:53:29,410 --> 00:53:31,570 we go, that means I'm awesome and I'm the best 1185 00:53:31,970 --> 00:53:34,930 surgeon ever. I'm the best horse rider ever. It's 1186 00:53:34,930 --> 00:53:36,930 like I'm, um, up here and then something doesn't 1187 00:53:36,930 --> 00:53:39,569 go away. It doesn't go away. We can feel the pain 1188 00:53:39,569 --> 00:53:41,530 of that. Maybe we lose someone, we feel the pain 1189 00:53:41,530 --> 00:53:43,570 of that. We don't go, oh my God, I'm the worst 1190 00:53:43,570 --> 00:53:46,130 person ever. I'm never. That's it, my career. So 1191 00:53:46,290 --> 00:53:49,130 like, so we feel that kind of like, you know, so 1192 00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:50,530 we want to experience the ups, downs and, and 1193 00:53:50,530 --> 00:53:52,330 downs of life. And some ups are higher and some 1194 00:53:52,330 --> 00:53:54,130 downs are lower, but we want to experience the 1195 00:53:54,130 --> 00:53:57,090 truth of them, um, and not the storey that we make 1196 00:53:57,090 --> 00:54:01,010 up about them. Because we can experience joy and 1197 00:54:01,010 --> 00:54:03,570 we can turn it into glee and we can experience 1198 00:54:03,730 --> 00:54:07,370 pain and we can turn it into suffering. And I 1199 00:54:07,370 --> 00:54:09,130 think it's from Buddhism originally. I think 1200 00:54:09,130 --> 00:54:11,570 Joseph Campbell popularised it more that, you 1201 00:54:11,570 --> 00:54:14,650 know, pain is inherent in life, suffering is 1202 00:54:14,650 --> 00:54:20,060 optional. Mhm. And we want to avoid the pain. So 1203 00:54:20,060 --> 00:54:21,900 actually, bizarrely, we turn it into suffering. I 1204 00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:24,180 mean, it's just a weird thing, but we, we make up 1205 00:54:24,180 --> 00:54:25,940 all these storeys about it, we make it mean 1206 00:54:25,940 --> 00:54:29,020 something about us when we can learn to let go of 1207 00:54:29,020 --> 00:54:31,980 meaning. Like it totally transforms our 1208 00:54:31,980 --> 00:54:35,460 relationship, you know, with life. And it's an 1209 00:54:35,460 --> 00:54:37,500 ongoing practise. I mean, I've been working on 1210 00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:40,460 this for like 12 odd years and I'll be working on 1211 00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:43,500 it for the next 20, 30, 40 years. Right. It's not 1212 00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:47,930 like, oh, it's just all changed. But it is this 1213 00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:50,250 sense that we get more and more aware of when 1214 00:54:50,250 --> 00:54:52,850 we're doing it and when we can become aware of it. 1215 00:54:52,850 --> 00:54:55,450 Awareness gives us choice. Without awareness, we 1216 00:54:55,450 --> 00:54:58,330 have no choice. And so we're doing things just 1217 00:54:58,330 --> 00:55:01,330 because. Just because that's how we were brought 1218 00:55:01,330 --> 00:55:03,490 up to do it. That's because that's how we think we 1219 00:55:03,490 --> 00:55:04,690 should do it. That's because that is the 1220 00:55:04,690 --> 00:55:07,650 expectation in our society. But as we start to 1221 00:55:07,650 --> 00:55:09,490 create awareness for ourselves, we start to be 1222 00:55:09,490 --> 00:55:11,290 able to change, choose and go, hang on a second. 1223 00:55:11,770 --> 00:55:14,490 Do I choose to take that identity on? Do I want to 1224 00:55:14,490 --> 00:55:17,010 change that identity? You know, do I want to take 1225 00:55:17,010 --> 00:55:19,290 on an identity of someone who is of service to 1226 00:55:19,290 --> 00:55:23,130 others and themselves at the same time, rather 1227 00:55:23,130 --> 00:55:25,610 than of service to others and not myself? Because, 1228 00:55:25,610 --> 00:55:27,730 you know, it goes back to the whole oxygen mask, 1229 00:55:27,730 --> 00:55:29,250 right? They tell you on planes, put your own 1230 00:55:29,250 --> 00:55:31,170 oxygen mask on before you help somebody else, 1231 00:55:31,170 --> 00:55:33,250 because if you are not in a good space, how can 1232 00:55:33,250 --> 00:55:35,610 you possibly help anybody else? And, yeah, you 1233 00:55:35,610 --> 00:55:37,330 might be able to do it for a while until you hit 1234 00:55:37,330 --> 00:55:39,690 burnout and you leave your career and you never 1235 00:55:39,690 --> 00:55:43,210 serve anyone in that way ever again. Yeah, that 1236 00:55:43,210 --> 00:55:45,450 makes no sense. And yet we do it all of the time 1237 00:55:46,330 --> 00:55:48,810 because we don't take the time to become aware and 1238 00:55:48,810 --> 00:55:51,810 then choose and go, hang on a second. Maybe this 1239 00:55:51,810 --> 00:55:53,849 is my ideal career and I'm choosing to be in it 1240 00:55:53,849 --> 00:55:57,370 for the long haul. And therefore, the amount of 1241 00:55:57,370 --> 00:56:00,170 people I'm going to serve through that career is 1242 00:56:00,170 --> 00:56:02,570 going to be immense. So why would I let myself 1243 00:56:02,570 --> 00:56:05,800 burn out today and miss out on serving all of 1244 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,240 those people for the next 10, 20, 30, 40 years? 1245 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,520 >> Rachel Morris: Yeah, M. I think it comes down to control. I think 1246 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,160 the reason why, you know, a lot of the high 1247 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,160 achievers I work with, um, suffer because they 1248 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,160 think if they can take the suffering on them, they 1249 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,280 can control the outcomes of stuff. If they can 1250 00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,880 work harder, they can control the workload. And we 1251 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,680 just know that doesn't matter. And a, uh, friend 1252 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,480 of mine said to me recently, I said this on the 1253 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,680 podcast before that her therapist told her, she 1254 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,520 said, oh, I'm such a people pleaser. She's like, 1255 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:38,240 therapist, like, no, you're not. You're just 1256 00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:40,280 trying to control other people's opinions of you. 1257 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,880 Ouch. And it's. It's so true. This. We think this 1258 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,080 is giving us an element of control because in the 1259 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,440 past it sort of has. You can control if you pass 1260 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,280 your exams or not by just, like, staying up all 1261 00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,520 night and working. 1262 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:53,480 >> Ellen Kumber: But. 1263 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,800 >> Rachel Morris: But you can't control how successful you're going 1264 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,400 to be by, by doing everything everyone asks you to 1265 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,650 because it's just not possible when the, when 1266 00:57:02,650 --> 00:57:03,730 there's too much work. 1267 00:57:05,010 --> 00:57:08,490 >> Ellen Kumber: And it's like. The thing is, it's such a trap for 1268 00:57:08,490 --> 00:57:10,410 us because it has worked in the past. It's what 1269 00:57:10,410 --> 00:57:12,850 got us here. And that's why we talk about the 1270 00:57:12,850 --> 00:57:15,050 power of softness. And one of the things we talk 1271 00:57:15,050 --> 00:57:17,210 about in our podcast, Softness Revolution is that 1272 00:57:17,210 --> 00:57:21,450 it's a softer way to success. You know, we're not 1273 00:57:21,450 --> 00:57:23,890 saying, don't be successful, don't be ambitious. 1274 00:57:24,290 --> 00:57:26,570 You know, it's just a softer way. Like we've done 1275 00:57:26,570 --> 00:57:29,250 it the hard way and it's got us where we are now. 1276 00:57:29,250 --> 00:57:32,410 And therefore we assume one of two things. Either 1277 00:57:32,410 --> 00:57:34,530 we need to continue doing that to continue to be 1278 00:57:34,530 --> 00:57:38,690 successful, or, uh, we stop wanting success 1279 00:57:39,170 --> 00:57:42,080 because we just. We can't do that anymore. Yeah. 1280 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,570 Ah, but there's, there's a, there's a softer way 1281 00:57:44,570 --> 00:57:47,410 to success. You can continue the success. You can 1282 00:57:47,410 --> 00:57:49,890 just experience it differently, you can create it 1283 00:57:49,890 --> 00:57:52,530 differently. And that's what I'm passionate about, 1284 00:57:52,530 --> 00:57:54,210 changing people. It's not like going, oh, we 1285 00:57:54,210 --> 00:57:55,850 should all, you know, float around in floaty 1286 00:57:55,850 --> 00:57:58,230 dresses and meditate and, and, you know, not 1287 00:57:58,470 --> 00:58:02,350 succeed in any material sense. If that's what 1288 00:58:02,350 --> 00:58:04,030 people want, that's great. And if they want 1289 00:58:04,030 --> 00:58:05,910 different types of success, that's great. If you 1290 00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:07,790 want to create the life we want, that's great. I'm 1291 00:58:07,790 --> 00:58:09,990 all about helping people create a life that they 1292 00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:13,870 really love and whatever is included in that. And 1293 00:58:13,870 --> 00:58:16,150 it might be huge amounts of success, it might be 1294 00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:18,230 financial, it might be of service to people, but 1295 00:58:18,230 --> 00:58:21,430 it's doing it in a softer way that allows us to 1296 00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:25,190 fully experience life as well as create the things 1297 00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:26,070 that we want to create. 1298 00:58:28,070 --> 00:58:30,150 >> Rachel Morris: And what would you say to someone that says, well, 1299 00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:32,870 this is all very good and well, Ellen, but 1300 00:58:33,030 --> 00:58:36,230 someone's got to do it. And if I say no, someone 1301 00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:37,750 else is just going to have to do it. So I'm just 1302 00:58:37,750 --> 00:58:39,670 passing the stress and the work on. 1303 00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:42,830 >> Ellen Kumber: I think that's a great question. And that's the 1304 00:58:42,830 --> 00:58:45,310 hard part, isn't it? Because that's the storey we 1305 00:58:45,310 --> 00:58:48,350 tell ourselves to justify our strategy of working 1306 00:58:48,350 --> 00:58:51,900 hard. And we can tell ourselves all number of 1307 00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:54,660 storeys to justify, you know, the strategies that 1308 00:58:54,660 --> 00:58:58,060 we have. And I would say, look at where it's 1309 00:58:58,060 --> 00:59:00,180 coming from, you know, the child's eye. It's 1310 00:59:00,180 --> 00:59:01,820 coming from an underlying belief that we're not 1311 00:59:01,820 --> 00:59:04,620 good enough or we're not worthy. And therefore, 1312 00:59:04,620 --> 00:59:06,900 that's what we're trying to fix. That's what we're 1313 00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:09,460 trying to prove that I am good enough, that I am 1314 00:59:09,460 --> 00:59:13,140 worthy. You know, and when we let go of that as a 1315 00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:15,380 measure of life and go, what is it I actually want 1316 00:59:15,380 --> 00:59:18,470 in life? You know, what does somebody else want in 1317 00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:21,350 life? Yeah. I think there's so many things that, 1318 00:59:21,350 --> 00:59:24,230 uh, people often say to me, like, but if everyone 1319 00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:26,030 just did what they would love, nobody would do 1320 00:59:26,030 --> 00:59:27,790 this or that. And I'm like, I don't think that's 1321 00:59:27,790 --> 00:59:30,350 true. I think if we were all really more connected 1322 00:59:30,350 --> 00:59:32,070 to what we would love, there would be people who, 1323 00:59:32,149 --> 00:59:35,350 you know, love getting up at 4:00am to, you know, 1324 00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:38,630 deliver the mail, you know, love doing the bins 1325 00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:41,110 once. There would be lots of people doing lots of 1326 00:59:41,110 --> 00:59:43,770 different things. Things. Yeah. It's just the way 1327 00:59:43,770 --> 00:59:45,650 that we would be doing it would be more aligned 1328 00:59:45,650 --> 00:59:49,770 with us. Yeah. Because we can do something because 1329 00:59:49,850 --> 00:59:52,770 we want it, or we can do something because we 1330 00:59:52,770 --> 00:59:56,530 think we should do it. And sometimes it's 1331 00:59:56,530 --> 00:59:58,290 something we love, but we're also doing it because 1332 00:59:58,290 --> 01:00:01,050 we think we should do it. So we think, I have to 1333 01:00:01,050 --> 01:00:03,810 do this. And so I'm like, okay, well, firstly, 1334 01:00:03,810 --> 01:00:05,770 change our language. Go. I'm choosing to do this. 1335 01:00:05,850 --> 01:00:09,110 You know, take. Take your power back. You know, I 1336 01:00:09,110 --> 01:00:10,630 have to do this. I don't have to do this. There 1337 01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:13,590 are consequences if I don't, and I get to choose 1338 01:00:13,590 --> 01:00:15,030 whether I want those consequences or not. 1339 01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:17,390 Therefore, I'm choosing to do that thing, then 1340 01:00:17,390 --> 01:00:20,270 it's recognising that we are all equal but 1341 01:00:20,270 --> 01:00:23,110 different. Equal power, but different. Yeah. Equal 1342 01:00:23,110 --> 01:00:27,110 potential, but different. Yeah. And, you know, 1343 01:00:27,110 --> 01:00:30,150 sometimes if we. If we always step into the void, 1344 01:00:30,150 --> 01:00:32,310 no one else gets to experience stepping into the 1345 01:00:32,310 --> 01:00:34,870 void, and no one gets to realise that there's even 1346 01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:35,790 a void there. 1347 01:00:36,670 --> 01:00:36,990 >> Rachel Morris: Yeah. 1348 01:00:37,390 --> 01:00:40,350 >> Ellen Kumber: And that is immeasurably harder when there are, 1349 01:00:40,420 --> 01:00:43,110 uh, serious consequences to somebody not stepping 1350 01:00:43,110 --> 01:00:46,270 into the void. And this is where intuition comes 1351 01:00:46,270 --> 01:00:48,870 in, because there's different things we might do 1352 01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:51,470 in the moment than we might do structurally over a 1353 01:00:51,470 --> 01:00:55,110 long period of time. So we might go, I have to 1354 01:00:55,110 --> 01:00:57,950 step in. I get. I'm choosing to step into this 1355 01:00:57,950 --> 01:01:00,470 void in this moment because I don't want the 1356 01:01:00,470 --> 01:01:02,220 consequence of what happens if I don't step into 1357 01:01:02,220 --> 01:01:05,780 the void. But I'm also choosing to take a step 1358 01:01:05,780 --> 01:01:08,100 back then and address why there's a void in the 1359 01:01:08,100 --> 01:01:10,660 first place and do something about that 1360 01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:13,620 structurally. You know, we talk about the fact 1361 01:01:13,620 --> 01:01:15,300 that, you know, creation is structural, not 1362 01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:19,660 personal. And structures lead to what gets created 1363 01:01:19,660 --> 01:01:22,740 in the world. And if there's a structure that's 1364 01:01:22,740 --> 01:01:24,780 creating a void and we have an internal structure 1365 01:01:24,780 --> 01:01:26,340 that says, I always have to fill the void, then 1366 01:01:26,340 --> 01:01:28,030 that's the structure and it works. And doesn't it? 1367 01:01:28,990 --> 01:01:31,190 If there's a structure that creates a void and we 1368 01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:33,390 have a structure that says, I'm not going to fill 1369 01:01:33,390 --> 01:01:36,430 the void, then the void has to be filled in a 1370 01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:39,150 different way. The structure has to change to 1371 01:01:39,150 --> 01:01:40,190 eliminate the void. 1372 01:01:40,430 --> 01:01:40,910 >> Rachel Morris: But if. 1373 01:01:40,910 --> 01:01:43,630 >> Ellen Kumber: If the structure works, no one changes it. There's 1374 01:01:43,630 --> 01:01:45,990 a void, it gets filled. Why would I change it? It 1375 01:01:45,990 --> 01:01:49,830 works. It just doesn't work for us. And so when we 1376 01:01:49,830 --> 01:01:52,150 change our structure, other structures have to 1377 01:01:52,150 --> 01:01:53,550 change. And that's the thing that we don't 1378 01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:55,980 believe. We believe if we don't do it, nothing 1379 01:01:55,980 --> 01:02:00,940 else will change. And that's the piece that is a 1380 01:02:00,940 --> 01:02:04,940 bit of a leap of faith. And so very often, you 1381 01:02:04,940 --> 01:02:07,460 know, I start small. You know, what would I love 1382 01:02:07,460 --> 01:02:11,060 for dinner? If I don't cook dinner, what's going 1383 01:02:11,060 --> 01:02:13,020 to happen? I don't know. What would you love for 1384 01:02:13,020 --> 01:02:16,020 dinner? I'd love not to cook. I'd love to have 1385 01:02:16,020 --> 01:02:18,620 takeaway. I'd love Chinese. Okay, great. So I 1386 01:02:18,620 --> 01:02:22,010 don't do anything. And then miraculously, spouse 1387 01:02:22,010 --> 01:02:23,810 phones up and says, hey, should I grab Chinese on 1388 01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:25,650 the way home? And you're like, how did that just 1389 01:02:25,650 --> 01:02:28,770 happen? Right. So you start with these weird 1390 01:02:28,770 --> 01:02:30,170 little things. You start to see the 1391 01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:32,570 synchronicities and the structures changing, the 1392 01:02:32,570 --> 01:02:35,010 magic happening, and then we start to address it 1393 01:02:35,010 --> 01:02:36,450 on a bigger and bigger and bigger scale. 1394 01:02:37,330 --> 01:02:39,690 >> Rachel Morris: That's so helpful, what you've just said. And I 1395 01:02:39,690 --> 01:02:43,090 think the other thing is that we're in a bind 1396 01:02:43,090 --> 01:02:46,210 either way. Because when. When people think they 1397 01:02:46,210 --> 01:02:49,170 have to do things and fill the void, well, there 1398 01:02:49,170 --> 01:02:52,170 is so many things that they have to do that 1399 01:02:52,170 --> 01:02:55,970 reality says you can't work more than 24 hours a 1400 01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:58,810 day. And so, yes, you might meet that need, but 1401 01:02:58,810 --> 01:03:00,890 there's also that need and that need and that 1402 01:03:00,890 --> 01:03:03,770 need. There has to be a limit at some point. And 1403 01:03:04,250 --> 01:03:07,050 we are not. We are not the saviours of the world. 1404 01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:10,090 We can't be. We can't even be the saviours of 1405 01:03:10,090 --> 01:03:12,050 other people. We can only be the saviours of 1406 01:03:12,050 --> 01:03:14,050 ourselves. And that's not selfish, is it? It's 1407 01:03:14,050 --> 01:03:17,350 just. It's actually not selfish because this is 1408 01:03:17,350 --> 01:03:19,510 for that. This is, you know, we keep ourselves 1409 01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:22,550 well so that we can, you know, show up well in the 1410 01:03:22,550 --> 01:03:24,550 world so that we can serve people in the way that 1411 01:03:24,550 --> 01:03:26,310 we want to, not in the way that we think we have 1412 01:03:26,310 --> 01:03:30,790 to. And that's always much better, isn't it? And 1413 01:03:30,790 --> 01:03:32,550 so in a minute, Ellen, I'm just going to ask you 1414 01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:36,350 for your three top tips for, for being softer, for 1415 01:03:36,350 --> 01:03:40,050 using softness and um, using your intuition. Um, 1416 01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,000 if people were recognising themselves and what 1417 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,480 Ellen was saying just then in the, you know, 1418 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,200 actually having to do that thing in, in the moment 1419 01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,120 and then look at stuff afterwards. Well, we have 1420 01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,360 a, a free PDF toolkit which is called when saying 1421 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,320 no isn't an option, which has like a decision 1422 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,480 framework, a decision structure about, you know, 1423 01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,680 if I have to just do this now, then what do I then 1424 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,200 need to do? Or do I have to just do this now or 1425 01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,080 not? So there's like a two by two grid that will 1426 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:05,480 help me with that. So we'll put that link in the 1427 01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,260 show notes. But Ellen, what are your top three 1428 01:04:08,260 --> 01:04:08,820 tips? 1429 01:04:09,380 --> 01:04:11,340 >> Ellen Kumber: Choose what you want in your life. Like just 1430 01:04:11,340 --> 01:04:12,980 choose to create the life you love. You don't need 1431 01:04:12,980 --> 01:04:16,020 to know what it is, but just choose it. Uh, take a 1432 01:04:16,020 --> 01:04:20,260 moment to breathe, breathe out and feel yourself 1433 01:04:20,260 --> 01:04:24,180 coming back into your body. And then take a moment 1434 01:04:24,180 --> 01:04:27,020 to just ask yourself like, what's going to be of 1435 01:04:27,020 --> 01:04:30,300 service here if I let go of proving and protecting 1436 01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:33,630 myself and I choose to be of service? What's going 1437 01:04:33,630 --> 01:04:35,550 to serve in the moment and what's going to serve 1438 01:04:36,350 --> 01:04:38,030 in a longer term scale of things? 1439 01:04:39,470 --> 01:04:42,070 >> Rachel Morris: I love that. I, uh, often call that getting 1440 01:04:42,070 --> 01:04:44,950 informed consent from yourself. Because when we 1441 01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:46,950 get informed consent from patients, we need to say 1442 01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:49,350 like, what are the benefits of this operation 1443 01:04:49,350 --> 01:04:52,310 right now? But what are the risks? And um, what 1444 01:04:52,310 --> 01:04:54,110 the short term benefits and risks. But what are 1445 01:04:54,110 --> 01:04:55,950 the long term benefits and risks? We don't often 1446 01:04:55,950 --> 01:04:57,630 think about that for ourselves, do we? 1447 01:04:57,790 --> 01:04:58,350 >> Ellen Kumber: That's great. 1448 01:04:58,420 --> 01:05:02,180 >> Rachel Morris: Right, Ellen? Oh, we'll have to get you back on 1449 01:05:02,180 --> 01:05:03,820 the podcast. There's so much more we could explore 1450 01:05:03,820 --> 01:05:05,420 around this. But if people want to find out more 1451 01:05:05,420 --> 01:05:06,900 about you and your work, where can they go? 1452 01:05:07,820 --> 01:05:10,820 >> Ellen Kumber: Uh, so folks can connect with me, um, on Facebook, 1453 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,340 uh, you can search Ellen Kumba. We've got the 1454 01:05:13,340 --> 01:05:15,860 Softness Revolution Instagram. If you want to 1455 01:05:15,860 --> 01:05:17,380 cheque us out on Instagram, it's at Softness 1456 01:05:17,380 --> 01:05:20,500 Revolution. Uh, you cheque out our podcast, it's 1457 01:05:20,740 --> 01:05:23,220 softness, uh, revolution.com forward slash 1458 01:05:23,220 --> 01:05:25,230 podcast. Or you can find out the Softness 1459 01:05:25,230 --> 01:05:27,230 Revolution wherever you listen to podcasts. Well, 1460 01:05:27,230 --> 01:05:30,270 just drop me an email. Ellenoftness.revolution.com 1461 01:05:30,990 --> 01:05:31,510 Brilliant. 1462 01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:33,150 >> Rachel Morris: I think you've got a course coming up as well. 1463 01:05:33,550 --> 01:05:36,220 >> Ellen Kumber: Yes, we do. We've got a course coming up, uh, 1464 01:05:36,220 --> 01:05:38,510 towards the end of October. It's called the Power 1465 01:05:38,510 --> 01:05:41,510 of Softness. It's six weeks online. We have two 1466 01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:43,990 different times, so either a morning or an 1467 01:05:43,990 --> 01:05:46,310 evening, depending what works best, folks. And 1468 01:05:46,310 --> 01:05:48,950 over that six weeks, we look at softness through 1469 01:05:48,950 --> 01:05:51,060 the lenses of physical, mental, mental, emotional 1470 01:05:51,060 --> 01:05:54,460 and also spiritual. And how we can connect to 1471 01:05:54,460 --> 01:05:56,700 ourselves, our intuition, how we can become less 1472 01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:58,980 reactive, uh, how we can do things with less 1473 01:05:58,980 --> 01:06:01,540 effort. We build up a practise, so it's like a 1474 01:06:01,540 --> 01:06:03,340 little bit of an extra practise every day. Not 1475 01:06:03,340 --> 01:06:05,300 something outside of your life, something you can 1476 01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:08,100 do as part of your life. And so over those six 1477 01:06:08,100 --> 01:06:10,900 weeks, you can see a real substantial change in 1478 01:06:10,900 --> 01:06:13,540 how you're approaching things, um, mentally, 1479 01:06:13,540 --> 01:06:15,780 emotionally and also physically. And you can build 1480 01:06:15,780 --> 01:06:20,560 in a lot more, um, like rest for yourself, you 1481 01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,520 know, but cheque it out. You can go to the 1482 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,960 powerofsoftness.com and find out what other people 1483 01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:26,280 have said about the course as well. 1484 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,550 >> Rachel Morris: Brilliant. Thank you so much, Ellen. And, um, 1485 01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,400 yeah, just wonderful to talk to you. And I can see 1486 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,240 that on your boat. So it's been wonderful to see 1487 01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:35,800 you there on your boat. So if you, if you're 1488 01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,000 listening to this audio, head over to the YouTube. 1489 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,320 You'll be able to see, see what the inside of 1490 01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,880 Ellen boat looks like. So we'll get you back to 1491 01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:46,240 talk, um, another time about your m. Other stuff 1492 01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:48,280 that I'm sure that's really, really relevant to 1493 01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:50,360 our listeners. So thank you. We'll speak soon. 1494 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:51,400 Thanks so much.