1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,570 Welcome to Frictionless Marketing, where we explore the latest 2 00:00:02,570 --> 00:00:04,980 trends and challenges in the world of marketing and beyond. 3 00:00:05,330 --> 00:00:09,170 In today's episode, we are joined by Tanya Wymer, Executive Director of 4 00:00:09,170 --> 00:00:11,030 Enterprise Communications at Biogen. 5 00:00:11,376 --> 00:00:14,316 With a wealth of experience in corporate communications, Tanya's 6 00:00:14,321 --> 00:00:17,856 renowned for her ability to engage both internal and external stakeholders 7 00:00:17,856 --> 00:00:21,186 through compelling brand campaigns, digital and social channels, and 8 00:00:21,186 --> 00:00:22,416 organizational communication. 9 00:00:23,416 --> 00:00:27,556 As an inclusive and empowering leader, Tanya excels in global roles, aligning 10 00:00:27,556 --> 00:00:31,126 communicators and business leaders across multiple cultures and geographies. 11 00:00:31,946 --> 00:00:35,176 She is a strong advocate for transformation and change communication, 12 00:00:35,536 --> 00:00:38,266 emphasizing the importance of starting with employees to create a 13 00:00:38,271 --> 00:00:40,336 unified and impactful brand message. 14 00:00:41,126 --> 00:00:44,486 Join us as we dive into Tanya's insights and strategies for fostering 15 00:00:44,486 --> 00:00:48,356 creativity, independence, and effective communication in the corporate world. 16 00:00:49,356 --> 00:00:51,126 Welcome to Frictionless Marketing. 17 00:00:51,131 --> 00:00:55,811 I'm your host, Paul Dyer, CEO of /prompt, and today I'm thrilled to be joined 18 00:00:55,811 --> 00:01:00,311 by Tanya Wymer, Executive Director of Enterprise Communications at Biogen. 19 00:01:00,561 --> 00:01:01,181 Welcome, Tanya. 20 00:01:01,181 --> 00:01:02,596 Thanks so much for having me, Paul. 21 00:01:02,996 --> 00:01:04,241 Thanks for joining us. 22 00:01:04,711 --> 00:01:07,651 Tanya, you've had an impressive career in corporate communications. 23 00:01:08,011 --> 00:01:12,461 You wanna start out by just maybe telling us what inspired you to enter this field? 24 00:01:12,926 --> 00:01:14,036 Well, thank you for that. 25 00:01:14,036 --> 00:01:16,486 I don't know if it's all that well engineered. 26 00:01:16,786 --> 00:01:20,465 I think a lot of people come into communications by happenstance, and I 27 00:01:20,465 --> 00:01:22,265 think that's definitely the case for me. 28 00:01:22,475 --> 00:01:25,505 So I grew up in a farming community and there weren't a 29 00:01:25,505 --> 00:01:29,375 lot of inspirational people in terms of corporate communications. 30 00:01:29,375 --> 00:01:31,930 But I had always loved storytelling. 31 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,360 I'd always gravitated towards that. 32 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,960 Actually in high school I had a teacher who taught this course 33 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:39,620 called Philosophies and Literature. 34 00:01:39,940 --> 00:01:43,180 It was the first time that I really learned about how you could 35 00:01:43,510 --> 00:01:45,880 perpetuate an idea through creativity. 36 00:01:46,115 --> 00:01:48,365 So that was really an interesting moment for me. 37 00:01:48,395 --> 00:01:50,825 Not that I thought, oh, corporate communications, 38 00:01:50,825 --> 00:01:52,015 this is the next path for me. 39 00:01:52,015 --> 00:01:53,245 I didn't even know it existed. 40 00:01:53,545 --> 00:01:57,715 But always followed what I liked and that ended me in a career 41 00:01:57,715 --> 00:01:58,795 in corporate communications. 42 00:01:58,795 --> 00:02:03,775 So creativity, persuading people, moving things forward in a really 43 00:02:03,780 --> 00:02:07,855 interesting and creative way, visually, with words, that's always been 44 00:02:08,065 --> 00:02:09,455 something that's very appealing to me. 45 00:02:09,705 --> 00:02:12,580 Now, now, hang on, I didn't know this background of growing 46 00:02:12,580 --> 00:02:13,480 up in a farming community. 47 00:02:13,485 --> 00:02:15,070 So where was this farming community? 48 00:02:15,225 --> 00:02:18,585 If you think about where the Great Lakes are and you throw a dart right in the 49 00:02:18,585 --> 00:02:22,745 middle, just about there in Ontario, Canada, and I grew up on a poultry farm- 50 00:02:22,910 --> 00:02:23,120 Ah. 51 00:02:23,585 --> 00:02:26,915 Two parents, immigrants, and then went to school in Toronto. 52 00:02:27,290 --> 00:02:27,620 Wow. 53 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,980 Well, you may not know this, but I actually worked two summers in cornfields. 54 00:02:31,620 --> 00:02:36,005 It is interesting in that it, it draws all kinds in terms of learning 55 00:02:36,010 --> 00:02:38,305 how you're gonna communicate with people down the road. 56 00:02:38,755 --> 00:02:43,270 So, it may not have been all that engineered as you described it, but it 57 00:02:43,270 --> 00:02:45,130 has been a successful career already. 58 00:02:45,130 --> 00:02:48,670 You've received several prestigious awards, including the CEO Elements 59 00:02:48,670 --> 00:02:52,210 Award at Biogen in 2022, the Circle of Excellence Award and the 60 00:02:52,210 --> 00:02:55,060 Change Communications Global Award when you were at Nova Nordisk. 61 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,080 I'm curious, have these awards either directed or shaped the 62 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,670 way that you approach the craft? 63 00:03:02,170 --> 00:03:02,980 It's interesting. 64 00:03:03,030 --> 00:03:08,460 When I think about what I got those awards for, they were always for times 65 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:13,140 when we were really trying to transform a culture and transform an organization. 66 00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:17,430 So I guess, inadvertently, that seems to be my sweet spot as well. 67 00:03:17,540 --> 00:03:22,610 Being a change agent within an organization, finding those opportunities 68 00:03:22,610 --> 00:03:28,220 to really engage people across the company and also externally with a new 69 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:33,080 value proposition for the company or a new direction, or even celebrating. 70 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,205 But appreciating where we've come from, and then also moving forward. 71 00:03:37,205 --> 00:03:41,395 So in each of those instances, that's really been core to what was 72 00:03:41,395 --> 00:03:43,225 the award-winning work at the time. 73 00:03:43,515 --> 00:03:45,075 So there's a red thread there as well. 74 00:03:45,130 --> 00:03:48,790 Again, leaning into what I love, being excited about that. 75 00:03:48,790 --> 00:03:51,780 That's always been core, and I think that's where the success has come from. 76 00:03:52,665 --> 00:03:55,155 That all makes sense, and I love that you've opened this door to 77 00:03:55,155 --> 00:03:57,435 transformation and change communication. 78 00:03:57,905 --> 00:04:00,935 Certainly a thread, as you called it, a red thread in your career. 79 00:04:01,275 --> 00:04:05,490 Also, a red thread in just the story of Biogen over the last, 80 00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:07,680 maybe five, even ten years. 81 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,360 A lot of ups and downs at Biogen. 82 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:16,080 In your role today, how do you balance the many competing interests when it comes 83 00:04:16,085 --> 00:04:20,910 to transformation, change, communications and all the different stakeholders and all 84 00:04:20,910 --> 00:04:25,230 the different expectations they have about exactly what message is delivered to whom? 85 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,230 You're balancing all of that. 86 00:04:27,230 --> 00:04:28,080 So how do you approach that? 87 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:30,640 My, my boss and I, we always joke that we're gonna write a book 88 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:35,830 about Biogen because it has been so storied over the last five years. 89 00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:36,550 Absolutely. 90 00:04:36,730 --> 00:04:38,320 But Biogen has a long history. 91 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,680 We're actually in the next few years, we're coming up on our 50th anniversary. 92 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,200 We're one of the first biotechs in the world, which is pretty exciting. 93 00:04:45,250 --> 00:04:49,060 So we have a lot to draw on that's really positive and I think that 94 00:04:49,060 --> 00:04:50,800 is always core to who we are. 95 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:54,930 While we've made some decisions as a business over the past few years that 96 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:00,030 were unpopular or maybe didn't take in those multiple stakeholder preferences 97 00:05:00,030 --> 00:05:05,130 or really thinking through all of those pieces necessarily, I do think that we 98 00:05:05,190 --> 00:05:07,410 are coming to a place - we have a new CEO. 99 00:05:07,650 --> 00:05:09,960 We went through a huge restructure last year. 100 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:12,350 At the same time worked on our culture. 101 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,800 So we really started the inside first, engaging with our people. 102 00:05:15,980 --> 00:05:18,680 And it's really tough to be going through a restructure. 103 00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:23,410 We were very transparent about it and spoke about, in advance 104 00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:26,380 of when it was happening, we actually told our employees first. 105 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,830 Then we told the market that we were gonna make that change, which is not 106 00:05:29,830 --> 00:05:32,500 necessarily how it is done normally. 107 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,175 So I really have to appreciate our leadership team for wanting to go in that 108 00:05:36,175 --> 00:05:40,830 direction, and also as a communications person, knowing how much disruption is 109 00:05:40,830 --> 00:05:44,835 going to be for employees, they're the ones that need to hear first, right? 110 00:05:45,135 --> 00:05:49,125 And then from there, at the same time, we did a culture program. 111 00:05:49,515 --> 00:05:53,945 And we said, okay, we want to create a new Biogen, what are we going to be? 112 00:05:54,305 --> 00:05:55,535 Who do we need to be? 113 00:05:55,805 --> 00:05:57,365 How do we need to show up differently? 114 00:05:57,365 --> 00:05:59,615 We've learned some lessons over the last few years. 115 00:06:00,005 --> 00:06:02,495 What will help us not repeat those lessons? 116 00:06:02,625 --> 00:06:06,865 So we, at the beginning of this year launched a new culture program. 117 00:06:07,270 --> 00:06:11,350 But we had engaged employees all along the way, asking them what 118 00:06:11,350 --> 00:06:12,520 do you think needs to change? 119 00:06:12,730 --> 00:06:15,640 What do you think we should be doing differently? 120 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,920 And then, what do you wanna keep from our existing culture 121 00:06:17,925 --> 00:06:18,880 and what do you want to change? 122 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,900 So building those together and then launch the culture at the beginning of this year. 123 00:06:23,290 --> 00:06:26,230 And now we're at a point where we're thinking about the external world 124 00:06:26,230 --> 00:06:29,250 much more and saying, okay, this new Biogen that we're creating, 125 00:06:29,675 --> 00:06:33,035 what is our new value proposition and how does that come through? 126 00:06:33,085 --> 00:06:34,225 And really who are we? 127 00:06:34,225 --> 00:06:37,825 Without too much navel gazing, we do wanna start to think about 128 00:06:38,725 --> 00:06:40,945 who are we now in this world? 129 00:06:41,255 --> 00:06:43,595 Of course, the world has changed significantly around us. 130 00:06:43,885 --> 00:06:48,145 What is it that we wanna say about ourselves to the rest of the world that 131 00:06:48,145 --> 00:06:49,785 is also valuable to the rest of the world? 132 00:06:49,785 --> 00:06:56,390 So, for me, getting back to your question, being congruent with your identity no 133 00:06:56,390 --> 00:06:58,610 matter what, especially as employees. 134 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,320 I started my career when I was faxing press releases. 135 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:07,040 Today, we're at a point where any employee will communicate about your company. 136 00:07:07,045 --> 00:07:11,750 So to me, if it doesn't resonate and it isn't the right message for them, 137 00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:13,880 then it's not the right message. 138 00:07:13,910 --> 00:07:17,570 And we shouldn't just be looking at one stakeholder group, investors. 139 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,625 It has to work for all of our stakeholders and figuring out who you are and hopefully 140 00:07:22,685 --> 00:07:26,375 if you can come up with something that's simple enough but reflects who 141 00:07:26,375 --> 00:07:28,145 you are, then we'll be successful. 142 00:07:28,145 --> 00:07:31,265 So we're just really embarking on that journey on the outside now. 143 00:07:31,765 --> 00:07:34,295 What I love about everything you just walked us through is 144 00:07:34,295 --> 00:07:35,495 how employee-centric it is. 145 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:41,200 We've all, of course, seen these examples where a culture is defined at the top 146 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,290 and then rolled out to the employee population, and the employees look at 147 00:07:45,290 --> 00:07:47,540 it and say, that's not our culture. 148 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,825 And instead, you said, of course you have to take all stakeholders into account, 149 00:07:51,825 --> 00:07:55,861 but it's really clear you're prioritizing employees as a stakeholder group first. 150 00:07:56,361 --> 00:07:58,521 I think that that's really pretty special. 151 00:07:58,851 --> 00:08:03,011 Obviously, employees have also had some difficult times to go through at Biogen, 152 00:08:03,371 --> 00:08:06,131 and you talked about some of those difficult decisions at the beginning 153 00:08:06,131 --> 00:08:07,771 of your response to that last question. 154 00:08:08,101 --> 00:08:11,981 I'm curious, was communications part of the decision making process there? 155 00:08:11,986 --> 00:08:14,531 Is that something where they said, look, we had to make a 156 00:08:14,531 --> 00:08:16,691 business decision, it's been made. 157 00:08:17,036 --> 00:08:18,476 Now it's time to communicate about it. 158 00:08:18,806 --> 00:08:22,936 Or was it more of a, you know, fulsome conversation around what 159 00:08:22,936 --> 00:08:26,296 the potential outcomes or impact of this decision from a communication 160 00:08:26,301 --> 00:08:29,206 standpoint were taken into consideration before the decision was made? 161 00:08:29,551 --> 00:08:34,006 Yeah, I think as with many things, results may vary, and that's certainly the case. 162 00:08:34,681 --> 00:08:39,531 I think we are getting more into a place where communications, and I know we've, 163 00:08:39,536 --> 00:08:44,001 for years had this communication and a seat at the table, and I almost think 164 00:08:44,006 --> 00:08:45,771 that's an irrelevant conversation now. 165 00:08:45,771 --> 00:08:50,691 To me, we see the communications people being involved all the time in the 166 00:08:50,691 --> 00:08:55,131 business, and that's a big change from when I started my career, immensely. 167 00:08:55,451 --> 00:08:59,201 And I think we are at our best when we are in the project. 168 00:08:59,201 --> 00:09:02,261 So for example, we did our restructuring project. 169 00:09:02,916 --> 00:09:07,356 I, as a communications person, was part of the project team, not just 170 00:09:07,356 --> 00:09:11,616 thinking about the communication for the program, but what were the decisions? 171 00:09:11,856 --> 00:09:15,546 We know so many times in communications, all the decisions on how things are 172 00:09:15,546 --> 00:09:19,926 going to go are being made, and then it's like, hey, can you communicate this? 173 00:09:20,106 --> 00:09:21,036 And we've all lived that. 174 00:09:21,036 --> 00:09:22,806 And that still happens, of course. 175 00:09:22,806 --> 00:09:24,906 Sometimes that has to happen that way. 176 00:09:25,516 --> 00:09:28,366 With materiality, or sometimes we have clinical trial results, we 177 00:09:28,366 --> 00:09:30,886 won't even know what the results are until sort of last minute. 178 00:09:31,306 --> 00:09:32,416 So that happens. 179 00:09:32,656 --> 00:09:36,796 But when we can and when we are in the room designing the 180 00:09:36,796 --> 00:09:40,846 program, making the decisions, I think it makes a big difference. 181 00:09:40,896 --> 00:09:43,746 And I've gone through a number of restructurings in my career, and the ones 182 00:09:43,746 --> 00:09:48,281 that work best are when you're as open as you can be with employees and with all 183 00:09:48,281 --> 00:09:50,951 stakeholders, which is difficult, right? 184 00:09:51,191 --> 00:09:57,131 But what I found is, by designing the program, being clear about what it is 185 00:09:57,136 --> 00:10:01,121 that's going to happen, telling people in advance, that you're actually able 186 00:10:01,126 --> 00:10:02,591 to move through the change quicker. 187 00:10:02,591 --> 00:10:08,376 So you can wait, not tell them anything, people are behind closed doors. 188 00:10:08,596 --> 00:10:11,681 And when I started at Biogen, that was actually, there was folklore about a 189 00:10:11,681 --> 00:10:16,396 previous layoff that had happened in that what I call old school way, where, 190 00:10:16,606 --> 00:10:18,676 rooms suddenly get paper on the glass. 191 00:10:19,496 --> 00:10:20,006 Mm-Hmm. 192 00:10:20,056 --> 00:10:22,096 And HR's meeting with people and there was all- 193 00:10:22,136 --> 00:10:23,136 And the whispers. 194 00:10:23,156 --> 00:10:26,816 The whispers and then you know, the security, and the this happened. 195 00:10:27,056 --> 00:10:30,956 And that's the kind of thing you don't want to have, especially today. 196 00:10:31,226 --> 00:10:34,316 You know, maybe ten or fifteen years ago that was pretty okay 197 00:10:34,316 --> 00:10:35,276 and it wouldn't get out there. 198 00:10:35,276 --> 00:10:38,576 But anything like that now is definitely gonna be on social media. 199 00:10:38,816 --> 00:10:40,256 People are gonna be talking about it. 200 00:10:40,596 --> 00:10:45,396 I don't wanna be designing things or the way that processes are going to be run 201 00:10:45,726 --> 00:10:49,776 in a way that is going to give people an opportunity to question what we're doing. 202 00:10:50,196 --> 00:10:54,726 And so for me, it's almost like an insurance plan for 203 00:10:54,936 --> 00:10:56,226 the communication to go well. 204 00:10:56,636 --> 00:10:58,526 This time around we were pretty transparent. 205 00:10:58,526 --> 00:10:59,906 And it is painful. 206 00:11:00,176 --> 00:11:04,376 It is super painful, and you're always doubting throughout the process, did 207 00:11:04,376 --> 00:11:06,506 we communicate too much too soon? 208 00:11:07,046 --> 00:11:08,216 And can people handle it? 209 00:11:08,216 --> 00:11:10,106 And it's very uncomfortable. 210 00:11:10,106 --> 00:11:15,206 And having leaders who can say, yes, this is uncomfortable, but ultimately we're 211 00:11:15,206 --> 00:11:17,036 going to get through the change faster. 212 00:11:17,486 --> 00:11:21,026 Versus if we wait till October and then it's D-Day, and then 213 00:11:21,026 --> 00:11:22,581 everyone has to pick up the pieces. 214 00:11:22,676 --> 00:11:27,586 By the time our October came, everyone was just sick of it and was ready to move on. 215 00:11:27,626 --> 00:11:27,856 [Laughs] 216 00:11:28,406 --> 00:11:31,856 And they already started to adopt new work practices, right? 217 00:11:31,861 --> 00:11:35,906 So it wasn't just that they put down tools and said, I'm not doing anything. 218 00:11:35,906 --> 00:11:38,246 They're like, okay, I need to start thinking about things differently. 219 00:11:38,576 --> 00:11:41,816 And I think that's really a smart way of working with people in 220 00:11:41,816 --> 00:11:43,601 a very human, transparent way. 221 00:11:43,846 --> 00:11:47,426 Is this a new communications, internal communications strategy? 222 00:11:47,426 --> 00:11:52,886 Is tell people about some bad news until they're sick of it, and then it's almost 223 00:11:52,886 --> 00:11:54,721 like, you just get to move on then, right? 224 00:11:54,991 --> 00:11:57,490 It's maybe transparency to the nth degree. 225 00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:00,270 But I do think there's value in having those conversations 226 00:12:00,275 --> 00:12:01,380 and being really open about it. 227 00:12:01,385 --> 00:12:05,945 We have a CEO who's very open to that and he talks about things very openly 228 00:12:05,945 --> 00:12:07,685 and also knows what the boundaries are. 229 00:12:07,905 --> 00:12:08,985 I think that that really helps. 230 00:12:08,985 --> 00:12:11,600 So we are blessed to have that support from the top. 231 00:12:12,010 --> 00:12:12,645 That's great. 232 00:12:12,885 --> 00:12:15,285 So let's move onto something a little more positive. 233 00:12:15,315 --> 00:12:18,225 So we've had difficult change communications, and then you also have, 234 00:12:18,225 --> 00:12:20,495 obviously, positive change communications. 235 00:12:20,925 --> 00:12:24,480 You've referenced an updated brand refresh that's been in development. 236 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,990 And I think you just said you're just now going external with it because 237 00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:29,770 it started out internally focused. 238 00:12:29,790 --> 00:12:33,420 We're really kicking off the project as a way to engage our 239 00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:35,250 employees around our vision. 240 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:39,540 So in addition to the culture work, there's new strategy work happening. 241 00:12:39,810 --> 00:12:43,430 And so all of this is pointing in the direction of where the new Biogen's going 242 00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:47,240 to be and where are we going to be in the next five, ten, twenty-five years. 243 00:12:47,490 --> 00:12:52,485 What's exciting about that is everyone has an opinion about the brand, and we 244 00:12:52,485 --> 00:12:56,775 really wanna hear what those opinions are, so we are designing - Actually, 245 00:12:56,825 --> 00:13:02,935 at the request or suggestion of our CEO, how can we get employees to be 246 00:13:02,935 --> 00:13:05,905 engaged in the process around our brand? 247 00:13:06,175 --> 00:13:11,965 Because who needs to believe in that brand more than your employees? 248 00:13:11,965 --> 00:13:12,385 No one. 249 00:13:12,485 --> 00:13:13,985 And that's new for me as well. 250 00:13:14,165 --> 00:13:16,845 Where, in the past we may have worked on corporate branding 251 00:13:16,845 --> 00:13:20,475 projects and then ta-da, look what the communications department did. 252 00:13:20,475 --> 00:13:23,460 That's a way that we've worked or we just look at external data, 253 00:13:23,460 --> 00:13:27,630 we don't really think internally as much in the design process. 254 00:13:27,630 --> 00:13:31,740 Maybe at the end you're like, okay, and then you, employees, will be the 255 00:13:31,745 --> 00:13:37,470 brand ambassadors, but that's not really successful, I would say, in today's world. 256 00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:41,790 And so we're creating as we go through this brand process, and I can't wait to 257 00:13:41,790 --> 00:13:43,290 see what it's going to be at the end. 258 00:13:44,140 --> 00:13:44,620 [Chuckles] 259 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,120 We're building in opportunities to test with employees. 260 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,330 We're building a website where they can go in, learn about the project, 261 00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:54,270 and then give us feedback real time. 262 00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:56,730 And our creative team is actually really excited about this. 263 00:13:56,730 --> 00:14:00,610 For instance, just as an idea, we're thinking about, okay, how 264 00:14:00,610 --> 00:14:02,470 wild or mild do we want to be? 265 00:14:02,660 --> 00:14:06,110 Like some of those things and having employees give us feedback, 266 00:14:06,420 --> 00:14:07,950 maybe on a sliding scale. 267 00:14:08,210 --> 00:14:11,665 We've done that in the past where we, as the creative team, have come 268 00:14:11,665 --> 00:14:14,695 up with something we thought was really clever, and then when we put 269 00:14:14,695 --> 00:14:19,375 it in front of the scientists who actually reflect our stakeholders, 270 00:14:19,435 --> 00:14:20,725 they thought it was too wild. 271 00:14:20,725 --> 00:14:23,785 So that's a part of checking ourselves. 272 00:14:23,955 --> 00:14:27,855 But also, our employees are the ones who are talking to those stakeholders who 273 00:14:27,860 --> 00:14:32,865 understand them and often share a similar mindset and they know what's going to fly. 274 00:14:32,915 --> 00:14:36,005 So having that immediate feedback is actually a real 275 00:14:36,005 --> 00:14:37,425 gift in the creative process. 276 00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:41,410 And it's a nice reminder that you really do value the employees and you 277 00:14:41,410 --> 00:14:45,615 really do want them to feel a sense of ownership of the place they work. 278 00:14:45,715 --> 00:14:51,815 Now, what happens when, inevitably, your employee population is not representative 279 00:14:51,845 --> 00:14:53,945 of your full stakeholder group? 280 00:14:53,995 --> 00:14:57,905 You, undoubtedly, have your employees over index in some way or another 281 00:14:58,205 --> 00:15:01,175 against what the national population is. 282 00:15:01,565 --> 00:15:05,405 And so how do you make sure that the brand you're bringing forth is something 283 00:15:05,405 --> 00:15:10,905 that's gonna be well received nationally, representatively, by America as it is 284 00:15:10,905 --> 00:15:15,615 today, and not just by people who are similar to the people who work at Biogen? 285 00:15:15,775 --> 00:15:17,385 Yeah and globally, as well. 286 00:15:17,385 --> 00:15:19,195 So that's the other factor to it. 287 00:15:19,195 --> 00:15:20,185 Two things come to mind. 288 00:15:20,215 --> 00:15:25,555 One to me is well then we really need to think about diversity and inclusion 289 00:15:25,585 --> 00:15:29,755 in our organization and how important that is and having that representation. 290 00:15:29,905 --> 00:15:33,685 And of course we are going to have the external research that's gonna back 291 00:15:33,685 --> 00:15:37,935 up and we'll be testing it with our audiences as well as we move forward. 292 00:15:38,305 --> 00:15:41,515 The second thing that I think is really important is spending some 293 00:15:41,515 --> 00:15:43,045 time with those customers as well. 294 00:15:43,045 --> 00:15:48,295 So, you know, research, absolutely, and the other thing, without 295 00:15:48,385 --> 00:15:51,775 going too vanilla, 'cause I think that's also a risk. 296 00:15:51,775 --> 00:15:56,095 We still wanna have something that we put out there that's inspiring. 297 00:15:56,545 --> 00:15:59,545 Even though I would say, even from an organizational perspective, we're 298 00:15:59,545 --> 00:16:01,555 probably becoming more conservative. 299 00:16:02,455 --> 00:16:07,555 I think there's always core principles that are believable no matter who you are. 300 00:16:07,645 --> 00:16:09,985 There's sort of those core human principles. 301 00:16:10,175 --> 00:16:13,865 That's what I'm trying to get to with this brand refresh project is 302 00:16:14,135 --> 00:16:18,875 what is the core thing that drives every human that you believe in? 303 00:16:18,995 --> 00:16:21,365 Everyone believes in resilience. 304 00:16:21,665 --> 00:16:24,255 Everyone believes in change and the need for change. 305 00:16:24,555 --> 00:16:27,945 What those changes may be will differ. 306 00:16:28,215 --> 00:16:31,275 And the other thing that I think is an opportunity for everyone in 307 00:16:31,275 --> 00:16:36,510 pharma and biotech is to really show the action related to these things. 308 00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:40,980 There's a lot of lofty words out there of how we describe what we're here to 309 00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:45,570 do, and I get it because you do wanna be inspirational, but I also think you 310 00:16:45,570 --> 00:16:47,490 need to deliver on what you're saying. 311 00:16:47,495 --> 00:16:51,105 So, as we think through this brand refresh, whatever those words 312 00:16:51,105 --> 00:16:54,285 are on the page, it's gotta be something that we can deliver on. 313 00:16:54,725 --> 00:16:55,985 How will that look? 314 00:16:56,035 --> 00:16:58,215 Maybe we'll be talking in a few months and we'll have that answer. 315 00:16:58,230 --> 00:17:00,570 Well, that credibility is obviously critical. 316 00:17:00,570 --> 00:17:04,740 It's something of course, that I'm sure that as you counsel your executives that 317 00:17:04,740 --> 00:17:10,105 you partner with and as agencies counsel clients, is you can't set a bar too high 318 00:17:10,105 --> 00:17:11,815 and then fail to deliver against it. 319 00:17:11,815 --> 00:17:13,725 You lose your credibility in the process. 320 00:17:14,145 --> 00:17:16,205 That obviously applies internally and externally. 321 00:17:16,635 --> 00:17:19,278 There's been a lot of conversation here - we're at Fierce Pharma today. 322 00:17:19,328 --> 00:17:22,298 And it's been a lot of conversation here about this idea 323 00:17:22,298 --> 00:17:23,348 of having a seat at the table. 324 00:17:23,348 --> 00:17:24,523 You brought that back up. 325 00:17:25,003 --> 00:17:28,673 And I love the tongue in cheek way that this morning's panel addressed that topic. 326 00:17:28,723 --> 00:17:32,423 It sounded like most of them felt like they have a folding chair that they 327 00:17:32,443 --> 00:17:34,353 get to bring to the table sometimes. 328 00:17:34,653 --> 00:17:36,893 But they're not always, they're not in a permanent seat. 329 00:17:36,898 --> 00:17:38,713 They don't have the "upholstered" seat. 330 00:17:39,003 --> 00:17:40,033 They bring the folding chair. 331 00:17:40,553 --> 00:17:43,473 And to some extent, I feel like that's maybe not such a bad thing. 332 00:17:43,473 --> 00:17:46,408 It's okay to pick and choose where it's gonna make sense. 333 00:17:46,648 --> 00:17:48,988 But something you just said stood out to me. 334 00:17:48,988 --> 00:17:52,033 As you were saying, you were trying to find the core values of what 335 00:17:52,033 --> 00:17:54,163 really matters to the company. 336 00:17:54,583 --> 00:17:57,193 That doesn't sound like communication strategy to me. 337 00:17:57,193 --> 00:17:59,113 That sounds like corporate strategy. 338 00:17:59,113 --> 00:18:01,453 That sounds like the company's strategy. 339 00:18:01,513 --> 00:18:02,383 Am I misreading that? 340 00:18:02,383 --> 00:18:03,493 Am I overdoing it? 341 00:18:03,498 --> 00:18:05,773 That is central to the company's mission. 342 00:18:06,503 --> 00:18:10,703 There's certainly the corporate strategy aspect of that, but I think there's 343 00:18:10,703 --> 00:18:15,778 one layer, maybe under the iceberg level, that I would think about, which 344 00:18:15,778 --> 00:18:18,123 is more like the human aspect of it. 345 00:18:18,123 --> 00:18:21,063 And it's interesting how you're talking about having a folding chair at the table. 346 00:18:21,303 --> 00:18:22,383 I think that's great. 347 00:18:22,743 --> 00:18:27,003 You don't actually wanna be fully at the table because then you're not - like 348 00:18:27,003 --> 00:18:28,443 you're drinking the Kool-Aid too much. 349 00:18:28,443 --> 00:18:31,503 And I think it's so important for communications people to 350 00:18:31,593 --> 00:18:35,643 bring that outside perspective, to bring the unpopular opinion. 351 00:18:36,183 --> 00:18:38,883 Sometimes it's an unpopular opinion from employees. 352 00:18:39,133 --> 00:18:40,603 Sometimes it's from patient groups. 353 00:18:40,663 --> 00:18:41,893 Sometimes it's from patients. 354 00:18:42,193 --> 00:18:48,133 And if you are part of that executive team fully, I wonder if you are 355 00:18:48,133 --> 00:18:49,813 able to challenge in the same way? 356 00:18:49,963 --> 00:18:54,603 Of course, having data is very important and that is something 357 00:18:54,608 --> 00:18:57,483 that you should be feeding into the organization all the time. 358 00:18:57,483 --> 00:19:01,028 But I also think things are happening so quickly that you can't 359 00:19:01,028 --> 00:19:05,048 always have the data and you need to be a little further out front. 360 00:19:05,078 --> 00:19:08,768 And it's a little bit like being a Cassandra in the organization. 361 00:19:08,978 --> 00:19:12,488 You're out front, sometimes seeing things that other people aren't seeing. 362 00:19:12,908 --> 00:19:17,048 And that's because you're connecting with all kinds of different stakeholder groups. 363 00:19:17,468 --> 00:19:22,988 And that's a privileged place to be, and I wouldn't want to lose that kind of edge 364 00:19:22,988 --> 00:19:24,488 that you have within the organization. 365 00:19:24,913 --> 00:19:28,183 I think it's a really smart point and an interesting way of thinking 366 00:19:28,183 --> 00:19:30,813 about this is if it's a folding chair, you can bring it with you. 367 00:19:31,413 --> 00:19:33,158 So you can go and take it to other tables to listen to the 368 00:19:33,158 --> 00:19:36,188 employees and you can take it out and listen to the patient groups. 369 00:19:36,548 --> 00:19:41,063 Of course, it seems like maybe this should be obvious, but as communications 370 00:19:41,063 --> 00:19:45,563 professionals, that does imply we should be the ones listening for the company 371 00:19:45,563 --> 00:19:49,913 in addition to speaking for the company, and yet you don't hear that very often. 372 00:19:49,913 --> 00:19:54,678 When we, and we do a lot of these kinds of conversations, so much of our emphasis 373 00:19:55,008 --> 00:20:00,258 is put on what are we gonna say, as opposed to what are other people saying? 374 00:20:01,293 --> 00:20:01,983 Absolutely. 375 00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:05,720 There's all kinds of folklore, or, you know, jokes about two ears 376 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,250 and one mouth, and, all of those things that you hear throughout your 377 00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:09,810 career, especially in communications. 378 00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:14,910 And I do think that's a challenge for me, for everyone, especially you 379 00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:18,840 get into the grind of the day to day and you're running so fast that you 380 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,730 forget to take some time to listen. 381 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:25,290 Our CEO has, one of the new parts of our culture is think broadly. 382 00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:26,730 Well, how are you gonna think broadly? 383 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,680 You don't think broadly sitting in a room alone. 384 00:20:28,735 --> 00:20:30,505 So you need to be inspired. 385 00:20:30,685 --> 00:20:33,325 You need to talk to other people, and he models that. 386 00:20:33,325 --> 00:20:34,075 He's out there. 387 00:20:34,075 --> 00:20:38,665 He is so well connected and understands people in our space. 388 00:20:39,395 --> 00:20:42,995 Last week he was in Brazil visiting employees. 389 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,770 He'll be in the middle of a biotech conference before you know it. 390 00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:51,000 He's out there also living that and understanding what's important to 391 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,705 people and being on that cutting edge. 392 00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:56,845 And I think that's an inspiration and it's very easy for communications people 393 00:20:57,085 --> 00:21:01,940 to close in because there's so much of a grind to just deliver all the time. 394 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,670 Sometimes I find that you're delivering, delivering, delivering, 395 00:21:06,670 --> 00:21:08,080 but what impact are you having? 396 00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:11,860 And I think that that's an important piece that we need to be stepping back 397 00:21:11,860 --> 00:21:17,470 and saying, okay, all of these activities that I'm doing are incremental, but 398 00:21:17,470 --> 00:21:18,940 where are they going to actually? 399 00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:20,560 Like, where's the real opportunity? 400 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,250 And I don't think you see that by just delivering, delivering every day. 401 00:21:25,025 --> 00:21:29,785 Well, and you've mentioned several times now the global nature of your roles and 402 00:21:29,815 --> 00:21:31,615 the organizations that you've worked in. 403 00:21:32,125 --> 00:21:36,505 This becomes even more complex when you're trying to communicate to and 404 00:21:36,510 --> 00:21:38,915 listen to people all around the world. 405 00:21:39,235 --> 00:21:42,805 For those who might be listening to this and have not sat in a global function 406 00:21:42,835 --> 00:21:46,525 or have been in a single country, maybe a US centric function, how would 407 00:21:46,525 --> 00:21:48,475 you describe that experience to them? 408 00:21:48,595 --> 00:21:53,300 And what learnings you have about how to be successful in a global role? 409 00:21:53,425 --> 00:21:56,290 Yeah, no, and it's interesting because I didn't start in a global role. 410 00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:59,620 I started my career actually in an agency in Canada. 411 00:21:59,625 --> 00:22:03,420 And then at one point I worked for an affiliate for a large global company. 412 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:04,950 Then I went and worked for their headquarters. 413 00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:08,520 Then I went and worked for their US affiliate, which is almost harder than 414 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,990 working in a headquarter, frankly. 415 00:22:10,050 --> 00:22:13,340 Just because you're both large and you're close to the market, 416 00:22:13,345 --> 00:22:15,560 so you're getting that instant feedback, which is interesting. 417 00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:19,240 And I think the global function, what I love about it is you're 418 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,320 connected into everything. 419 00:22:20,795 --> 00:22:25,085 And so that can be wonderful and it can also be super intimidating. 420 00:22:25,385 --> 00:22:27,635 I like to see how all the pieces fit together. 421 00:22:27,865 --> 00:22:29,605 For me, that's really inspiring. 422 00:22:29,635 --> 00:22:30,955 It's not for everyone. 423 00:22:31,235 --> 00:22:35,980 Where I worked in a US affiliate, it was more clear what you're delivering. 424 00:22:35,985 --> 00:22:38,200 You're tied directly to the KPIs. 425 00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:42,640 It's a little bit more nebulous when you're in a global role and you're 426 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:43,840 talking about corporate branding. 427 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,890 Well, what is that? 428 00:22:44,980 --> 00:22:47,800 And is that important and who is that important to? 429 00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:52,030 And as a communications person, you're thinking of course you need this. 430 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:55,870 But you do need to sell it in a little bit more because you're not doing 431 00:22:55,870 --> 00:23:00,010 those things that are so core to the business and delivering on those KPIs. 432 00:23:00,130 --> 00:23:00,970 Reputation. 433 00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:01,710 What is that? 434 00:23:02,010 --> 00:23:06,375 Reputation is driven by behaviors, but it's also driven about what people say 435 00:23:06,375 --> 00:23:07,965 about you, what you say about yourself. 436 00:23:07,965 --> 00:23:11,135 So having that larger story is really important when you're 437 00:23:11,135 --> 00:23:12,665 thinking in a global role. 438 00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:13,220 Yep. 439 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,245 And what about when you're thinking about creating the environment for your team? 440 00:23:17,795 --> 00:23:18,905 Let's bring all these things together. 441 00:23:18,955 --> 00:23:21,475 Global role, global organization. 442 00:23:21,775 --> 00:23:25,185 Tremendous change in transformation the company's been going through. 443 00:23:25,505 --> 00:23:26,945 You're inside out. 444 00:23:26,995 --> 00:23:30,955 Employee first is a clear mandate from the top being lived by your leadership. 445 00:23:31,375 --> 00:23:34,495 But as I'm sure, like you said, deliver, deliver, deliver. 446 00:23:34,545 --> 00:23:37,975 A lot of pressure to just hey, get this thing drafted and out the door. 447 00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:42,880 How do you create the space for the team in that kind of an environment 448 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,230 to actually do their best work? 449 00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:45,430 To think creatively? 450 00:23:45,895 --> 00:23:49,255 Yeah, it's a great question and maybe you should ask it to some of 451 00:23:49,260 --> 00:23:50,425 them who are at this conference. 452 00:23:50,685 --> 00:23:54,180 [Paul laughing] We'll get a follow, we'll get a follow up answer here. 453 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:55,130 Exactly. 454 00:23:55,130 --> 00:23:57,060 There may be some better ideas from them. 455 00:23:57,140 --> 00:23:58,460 I think there's a couple of things for me. 456 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:03,540 One, and by no means is this perfect, and we also have gone through a restructuring, 457 00:24:03,540 --> 00:24:05,330 so we're getting our sea legs as well. 458 00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:08,180 So the beginning of the year we kind of knew what our goals were and they, 459 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,005 there's certainly pivoting and changing and we're seeing where the organization's 460 00:24:12,005 --> 00:24:13,685 going, where the priorities are. 461 00:24:13,815 --> 00:24:15,435 We've made a couple of acquisitions. 462 00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:18,825 Those are all things that kind of come onto your plate and you don't 463 00:24:18,825 --> 00:24:21,525 anticipate, but add to that strain. 464 00:24:21,685 --> 00:24:27,485 So, I think we need to do a better job of stepping back and saying, 465 00:24:27,515 --> 00:24:32,005 okay, what here is incremental and what is transformational? 466 00:24:32,745 --> 00:24:34,635 When can I do those big plays? 467 00:24:34,635 --> 00:24:40,025 'cause you can just get into the day to day and do things or oh well the 468 00:24:40,085 --> 00:24:44,875 this person or this stakeholder wants this thing and carving out time to 469 00:24:44,875 --> 00:24:46,885 step back and think and be inspired. 470 00:24:46,885 --> 00:24:48,265 It's nice to be at this conference. 471 00:24:48,595 --> 00:24:51,175 I just heard one of my employees say, oh, I got so many great ideas. 472 00:24:51,175 --> 00:24:53,065 I'm a little overwhelmed by that. 473 00:24:53,165 --> 00:24:57,455 But I think it is also an opportunity for us to think, okay, what is 474 00:24:57,455 --> 00:24:59,525 really going to fix a problem? 475 00:24:59,855 --> 00:25:03,205 Versus just continue to go through that daily ground. 476 00:25:03,415 --> 00:25:07,865 I also think empowering people, psychological safety, those are all the 477 00:25:07,865 --> 00:25:13,205 buzzwords, but it's really important to not freak out when things go wrong. 478 00:25:13,565 --> 00:25:17,045 And that's really hard when you're going through so much change yourself. 479 00:25:17,050 --> 00:25:20,955 So, grounding the team, reminding ourselves why we're here. 480 00:25:21,345 --> 00:25:25,140 All of those things that one therapist says to them they need to be doing 481 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,280 is really important for the team, and we don't get it right all the time. 482 00:25:28,820 --> 00:25:29,450 Yeah, you're right. 483 00:25:29,450 --> 00:25:32,750 It's definitely difficult sometimes to be the one who has to project 484 00:25:32,755 --> 00:25:37,760 calm when all of this change is impacting you personally also. 485 00:25:37,910 --> 00:25:41,360 We're getting close on time here, so I want to just ask in closing here, 486 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,945 are there any upcoming projects or any initiatives at Biogen that you're 487 00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:47,165 particularly excited about, that you think people should hear of? 488 00:25:48,485 --> 00:25:50,340 Well, hopefully we've talked about some of them. 489 00:25:50,345 --> 00:25:52,570 Certainly the corporate brand refresh is very exciting. 490 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:53,930 I'm very future focused. 491 00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:58,430 That's just my personality and so I'm really excited about how that's the next 492 00:25:58,430 --> 00:26:00,260 step in the evolution of the company. 493 00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:02,180 We've been around for almost fifty years. 494 00:26:02,180 --> 00:26:06,710 So that to me, I can't wait to celebrate our 50th anniversary and 495 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,990 imagine what we've accomplished as an organization for patients. 496 00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:13,430 What we've moved forward. 497 00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:15,740 We have some really interesting things in our pipeline. 498 00:26:16,085 --> 00:26:19,595 We have some opportunities to fill our pipeline more. 499 00:26:19,595 --> 00:26:20,975 I think that's super exciting. 500 00:26:20,975 --> 00:26:24,425 So being part of the company and being able to shepherd the 501 00:26:24,430 --> 00:26:26,315 organization through that change. 502 00:26:27,285 --> 00:26:31,335 I don't know, I was joking with my boss, I can't wait for our 50th anniversary. 503 00:26:31,340 --> 00:26:34,480 We're revealing a new logo and it's a great moment and we can 504 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,510 celebrate that we've been able to move the organization through this. 505 00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:40,660 So to me, I'm thinking really long term and that's really 506 00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:41,770 what keeps me going every day. 507 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,460 Sounds like another chapter in that book you're gonna write. 508 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:44,900 I think so. 509 00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:45,190 Think so. 510 00:26:46,270 --> 00:26:47,650 Well, Tanya, thank you very much. 511 00:26:47,655 --> 00:26:48,520 This has been incredible. 512 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,280 I'm sure our listeners are gonna really enjoy hearing all of your insights and 513 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,220 it's been great getting to share a little time with you here at Fierce Pharma. 514 00:26:55,295 --> 00:26:55,595 Great. 515 00:26:55,595 --> 00:26:56,525 Thank you very much. 516 00:26:56,525 --> 00:26:57,095 Appreciate it. 517 00:26:58,024 --> 00:27:00,634 Thank you for listening to this episode of Frictionless Marketing. 518 00:27:00,684 --> 00:27:03,924 For a complete transcript of this conversation or more information on 519 00:27:03,924 --> 00:27:07,474 /prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co. 520 00:27:08,067 --> 00:27:10,197 If you found this episode insightful, share it with 521 00:27:10,197 --> 00:27:11,397 your connections on LinkedIn. 522 00:27:11,850 --> 00:27:15,150 To learn more about how to make marketing frictionless, purchase Friction 523 00:27:15,155 --> 00:27:19,830 Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer, online and at booksellers worldwide. 524 00:27:20,347 --> 00:27:22,717 Frictionless Marketing is a production from /prompt, the 525 00:27:22,717 --> 00:27:25,837 leading earned first creative marketing and communications agency. 526 00:27:26,077 --> 00:27:28,507 Grounded in the present, yet attuned to the future. 527 00:27:28,937 --> 00:27:31,697 Produced and distributed by Simpler Media Productions.