0:00:05.3 Vickie Brett: Welcome to the Inclusive Education Project. I'm Vickie Brett.

0:00:08.9 Amanda Solohi: I'm Amanda Solohi. We're two civil rights lawyers on a mission to change the conversation about education, civil rights, and modern activism.

0:00:19.3 VB: Each week, we're gonna explore new topics which are going to educate and empower others.

0:00:26.8 AS: And give them a platform to enact change in education and level the playing field.

0:00:33.0 VB: Welcome back, listeners.

0:00:34.4 AS: Hi, everyone.

0:00:35.4 VB: To the front lines of the California educational system. Actually, in the federal education system from California to Virginia, which is the topic today that we're gonna be discussing in this, special. Is it...? I mean, I always think the solo episodes are special. So I... That's why I said in this special episode.

0:00:56.3 AS: Well they are, they allow us to kind of get a little bit deeper into what we're seeing, too. Especially right now when we're about a month into school, starting for the 25-26 school year, and it's already hit the fan. I mean, we expected this, we planned for this. We've talked to you all about what we expect, and we're already seeing it. And at the end of the day, the amount of lawsuits that are already, like, in play, I can't even count them anymore because there's so many. So, like, things are changing every day. Courts are falling on one side or the other, some good, some bad, and it's. We're kind of all over the place. We don't have, like, one direction. We can say, oh...

[overlapping conversation]

0:01:39.2 VB: Yeah, and I'm sure, yeah, many of the listeners have already felt the impact of funding, you know, not coming through or teachers not being hired. And what we're going to be discussing is what the Federal Department, the U.S. Department of Education did at the beginning of mid August last month regarding five Northern Virginia school districts. And I'll just be very frank. They are withholding over $50 million.

0:02:06.7 AS: Money that was promised by federal law guaranteed to the states, guaranteed to education, based on these federal laws that still are in play, which we talked about before, how it takes an act of Congress to change these laws. Congress has not changed laws. This money...

[overlapping conversation]

0:02:25.4 VB: But the interpretation in which these laws under this administration is not bipartisan. This is formula funding, this is discretionary grants, and this is impact aid grants when you are put on high risk, as these Virginia districts have. And just to back up, let us just set the stage. So Amanda and I shouted from the rooftops back in February when the Office of Civil Rights was changing the Department of Justice the Office of Civil Rights, it was like, pause. And then they came back and they're like, if under The Supreme Court's decision where white and Asian students felt discriminated against with college admissions at places like Harvard and kind of skewed this whole DEI, you know, to better white folks. Essentially, OCR opened up it the lines and said, if you're being impacted in this way. So what we saw were people that were actually impacted in a harmful way based on sex, gender, disability, race were being... Or race. I should put like a little asterisk because then it was like we were seeing white people that felt like they were being negatively impacted because of the... That's where we were seeing OCR opening up cases.

0:03:42.4 VB: This is a primary example of that. Basically, under title nine, quote unquote. The districts were in violation based on their, like, bathroom and locker room policies of, you know, use your gender identity. And what the federal government is saying is that that is wrong and that the child needs to go based on their biological sex. So one, we're impacting an already like such a small segment of the population and transgender kids. That's why you see shirts that say leave trans, Kinder kids, trans kids alone. Leave trans kids alone. And this is a primary example. Basically the complaint had been filed, the department picked it up and, and they tried to resolve it by saying just, you know, go back to female and male bathroom icons or whatever. The Virginia districts rightfully said no, respectfully disagreed, and they are correct. You know, where Amanda and I stand on this, we're not going to dive deep into the bathroom policies. We're going to be talking about the direct and immediate impact because basically once they did not resolve it, then the department said, we're going to withhold your funding. We're going to withhold... And we're going to put you on a reimbursement model. That's what high risk means, is that they will have to be on a high risk... What school districts do you think have $50 million just laying around that they could for all of this?

0:05:20.3 AS: No, they don't. And at the bottom line of this... Central to all of the... Want to put these in quotes, these policies of the Trump administration, because they're not laws, They're just, they're crazy policy positions. Based on these, we are now saying... And mind you, we talked about this all the time, that part of the policies was state rights. We want to leave things up to the states. We don't want this big government. We don't want federal regulation. We want states' rights. Well, guess what? These states are doing just that. These states, these districts are doing exactly what you said you wanted them to do. Have state rights. Leave these decisions up to the states. And guess what? These Virginia districts have done just that. They felt like their community, they wanted to protect certain students. And mind you, these policies only affect...

0:06:10.1 VB: And be inclusive.

0:06:13.4 AS: And be inclusive, which is required by federal law, mind you. And we're dealing with these situations where, you know, and like Vicki said, we're not going to get into them and you show you know where we stand on these trans issues and protecting these children. But in reality, it's a small portion of the community. And now, because of a policy that is in line with what they have the right to do, now we're withholding these millions of dollars that goes to the entire school district.

0:06:44.1 VB: Entire school district. It impacts every single child. It is also the lifeline, you know, of special education. This means a significant portion. They can't hire that one-to-one aid. They can't hire that other speech and language pathologist that they were counting on. You go into high risk and you go into reimbursement mode, you are in an automatic freeze. So even if they had, you know, a budget set and were okay, it's going to be tight and you're going to freeze. So you're in a hiring freeze. You can't get those OTs, you can't get those PTs assistive technology that you were banking on getting, updated iPads or whatever it was, right? Like, those aren't just luxuries anymore. Those are like foundational things that all children benefit from, not just the SPED kids. But what is so chilling and what is getting Amanda and I hyped up is that the politicians don't suffer. The school board members don't even suffer, right? Now, whoever sent that complaint in, your child is immediately impacted by this freeze. Whether you thought that that was going to be the intention or not, I want you to think about that.

0:07:59.3 VB: And I'm not saying this person listens to this podcast. Obviously, they don't. But like, it is chilling. It is like, oh my God.

0:08:10.0 AS: The impact from everything that's happened in the last eight, nine months, we have already started seeing the disastrous. I want to call it the small, horrible bill, not going to give it its due name, right? It already established so fewer funds for special purposes that are required. It already blocked certain discretionary funds that were meant to go to special purposes for school districts. We're already seeing school districts in states that are suffering... I mean, look, we talked about the state of California. The federal money is in comparison to the state money. It's chump change. However, it still is a huge impact when it comes down to the individual schools. Here in California, we are already only a couple of weeks into school and we're already seeing kids. I've had a number of kiddos where they need aids or they need certain supports and they don't have the staffing. They don't have... Mind you, we already had so many staffing shortages to begin with. So like finding staff, but now we can't pay the staff. And for states that don't have as much state funding as California are seeing the suffering even more. The programs that are being eliminated, the programs that are going away, that are being decreased, it's huge.

0:09:29.0 AS: And to then go further and to take even more money away simply because school districts are doing the right thing. It's just horrific.

0:09:38.3 VB: Oh, it puts the parents in an ethical situation because if there is not the funding for them to provide the service for their child, the parent has a right to file due process complaints. And so, you know, this is an impossible position for a parent, right? Because their district is doing the right thing, but because the federal government is trying to force feed and literally like punch us in the face with their interpretation, their interpretation, this is not the law that having gender identity bathroom policies, there's not a law that says you cannot have gender identity.

0:10:16.4 AS: Right, right. These policies don't go against any laws...

0:10:18.9 VB: It is the interpretation that the Department of Education, because we always, we had, you know, they used to have these lovely like dear colleague letters and things like that that was like, hey, you know, this is the law, but this is how we...

0:10:31.1 AS: We used to have better guidance.

0:10:33.0 VB: Yeah, better guidance. Thank you so much. And so, you know, for parents in Virginia, you know, it's an impossible situation. And then from just a legal perspective, if they can do this for bathroom policies, we're always looking behind our back. They're coming for all of us. You think it's just trans kids, the LGBTQ community? No, they're coming for us all.

0:10:58.1 AS: School districts that have policies about how anti-bullying policies, policies about having an inclusive community, that's going to be next, right? They don't like DEI. And so we know that that's... And look, we know the writing's on the wall. We've talked about this in the past. The goal from Project 2025 and every other plan has been to destroy the Department of Education, to destroy public education as we know it, so that their own agenda of voucher programs will become more and more appealing. And we know that voucher programs do not work. They don't work. They never work.

0:11:39.7 VB: SPED kids are collateral damage. Like, point blank...

0:11:43.2 AS: They will only help the rich kids that are already going to private schools. And anyone who is listening to this who still thinks that vouchers are a good idea and thinking, oh, well, maybe even thinking about it for a second that it could be a good idea is leaning into their propaganda.

0:12:02.0 VB: We probably should do another episode on it because if you have that thought, please send us your thoughts because then we've already done a voucher, but I think it needs to be talked about again in detail because of the severe impact.

0:12:17.1 AS: Yeah, the new budget bill allowed for more opportunities for states to create, and the idea was to try to create a federal voucher program. I know that it's just laying the groundwork. It hasn't actually come to fruition, but that is those next steps. And we know that there are states that are trying to put it on the ballot too, but historically any state, any county, any district that has tried these policies have not worked. If you live in a district or a state where you feel like you've been benefited from it, we'd love to hear from you because all the research out there does not demonstrate that. And all we're trying to say is that we have to be really on the lookout for it's this domino effect. If this can happen based on this small policy, what is going to be next? So we have to be calling our representatives. At the end of the day, it's going to be the ballot box because the majority of representatives in Congress right now aren't doing anything. A portion of them are standing up. Obviously, we have the Texas House that has really been fighting on the gerrymandering and some other states are trying to follow suit, and they're doing what they can.

0:13:22.9 AS: But at the end of the day, if we want representatives that are going to take action and stop and not allow this to happen, we have to do it at the ballot box.

0:13:30.2 VB: Yeah, it's here. The financial leverage with which this administration is trying to get districts throughout, it's not just based on Virginia. We always say, oh, we're so lucky in California. This has a chilling effect. This is federal funding, and they want to enforce their interpretation of the law, and that is a key takeaway. Amanda and I have always prided ourselves on being collaborative approaches with the school districts, and this is beyond, right? We are all on the same side.

0:14:05.7 AS: It's outside of the control of the local...

0:14:08.7 VB: And this...

0:14:09.9 AS: And I just do want to caveat that we know that this is very... When we're recording this, this is very recent that this occurred, and we know that with a lot of the withheld funds, there have been a number of lawsuits, and a lot of the funds so far this year that have been withheld, some have been returned, some have not. It's gone back and forth, so keep in mind, we'll be sharing on social media if anything changes between the time that we record this and now. It doesn't change our stance. It doesn't change what we need to do from here, but just keep that in mind.

0:14:39.0 VB: Yeah, I think the primary reason that we really, and we took a little bit of time to wait to kind of see what was happening is because at the end of the day, the key takeaways are the federal government is going to use the financial power to try and force their interpretation, and also another key takeaway is how fragile the system actually is. No matter how long we've been doing this, we have never encountered this in the 14, 15 years that we've been doing this because this has never been, it is beyond, like, we're bipartisan, we're reaching across the aisle. This is straight up, you are going to do what we want you to do, and that is why we had that conversation about Project 2025 because it sounds nice. Oh, the Department of Education, go on the U.S. Department of Education and read their little blurb about this. You're like, yeah, you withhold that funding because they violated Title IX, and then when you really kind of read between the lines and really look at the bigger picture, this is dangerous, and we knew it was happening, and we have so many wonderful people trying to fight up against it, but parents, teachers, districts, this is something that will impact all of us. We need to pay attention in this moment. This isn't just one state policy, and the state did it themselves, and you're like, oh, Texas, we're in California. This is fundamental.

0:16:09.0 AS: And the biggest chilling effect of this is that we're dealing with now school districts and states, county, Department of Education, that are going to have to make a choice. Are they going to stand up and continue on their path to support children, to support students in schools and community, or are they going to give in, bend the knee, so to speak, and...

0:16:29.9 VB: Our attorney general has, like, 10 or 15, like, lawsuits against Trump. Like, every time I read his, like, little Sunday newsletter, it's like, I'll see you in court, Trump, and I'm like, this guy, you know? But not everybody has...

0:16:44.5 AS: Yeah, there's a lot of states. I mean, we've already seen how many since February districts and schools and, you know, counties and states that have already kind of folded, that have already said, okay, we're going to change our policy. I mean, I was talking to a friend a couple weeks ago who works for a big nonprofit, and they were talking about how they restructured and changed on the name of the programs. And I'm just like, see, if big organizations like this, big nonprofits, are going to bow down and give in, there's no hope for the rest of us. And at the end of the day, if you live, you have your child, you work at a school district, your child goes to a school district, it's important that we tell that we support them and support the counties and the states and say, look, we don't want you to fold. Yes, we understand it's scary. The funding is scary. But there's illegalities in what the Trump administration is doing, and these lawsuits are proving it. But we have to stay strong.

0:17:40.9 VB: Literally, our children are being used as bargaining chips, and they deserve better.

0:17:48.3 AS: Yep.

0:17:48.9 VB: So if you have any questions or comments, you send them right to Amanda and I. No, you know, we will continue to update. Yeah, like the most up to date stuff, Amanda does a great job on her on our Instagram, giving like the most up to date, we will be having a lot more of these solo episodes where we will be talking about the bigger impact because we know how different... But we just got so many people saying like, Oh, well, what about this? What about this? And we were hesitant to talk about it because things do change so quickly. But I think what we did a really good job. I'm patting us on the back that I felt like we did a really good job of talking about the bigger impact and what this this means for the future. And why even if it changes or gets resolved, once you ring that bell, and you use our children as bargaining chips, you can't go back from that. So pay attention.

0:18:35.6 AS: Yeah. And I think if you're listening to this, and it's so overwhelming, and you're thinking, you know, I already have to deal with so much my kid going back to school, what am I supposed to do? The small thing that you can do at home is pay attention to your local school board. That's it. Go to the meetings, most of them are on Zoom now, you don't even have to show up, you don't have to speak if you don't want to, but be informed, stay informed about what they're doing or what they're saying or what they're not saying. And, you know, it's good to speak out if you can, if you are if you go to a school board meeting, and they're seeing what's happening in Virginia, and they're like, Oh, we got to change our policies, because we don't want to lose funding, speak up and say, No, we want you to stand up something small, even if you don't have the power, bring a friend, have a friend go the more you can have people at least be paying attention to what's happening. Don't close your eyes to it.

0:19:25.3 VB: Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. We know. But hopefully this kind of gave you a little slice of what's been going on. Educationally speaking, there's 100 other things that are going on. But we really wanted to bring attention to this because it's not going to be the last. So, you know, buckle up buttercups, and we will talk to you next week.

0:19:45.9 AS: Bye.

0:19:46.7 VB: Bye.