PJ Ellis (00:38)

I'm absolutely buzzing. That's the technical term. I say this all the time,

to be joined on the Wit and Grit podcast by no other than Jas Rohal How are you, mate?

Jas Rohel (00:47)

hello i'm good god i don't know what to expect here but this is interesting

Andy Dawson (00:49)

I guess.

PJ Ellis (00:52)

this is what these conversations are all about. you don't know what we're going to expect other than a lovely conversation with a lovely person that's going to tell us loads of brilliant and lovely things. So over to you, mate. Tell the world. who is Jas Rohel

Jas Rohel (01:06)

my gosh, no.

Who is Jas Rohel I don't know. I'm still looking for her. When you find her, her to me and let her tell me who I am. No. So Jas Rohel, I am the CEO and founder of Education Awards. I set that business up 10 years ago. Can you believe it? Nearly 10 years in business. And prior to that, I worked in education.

PJ Ellis (01:16)

You

Andy Dawson (01:27)

Wow. Yeah.

PJ Ellis (01:27)

Wow

Jas Rohel (01:34)

And prior to that, worked on radio. So very different and diverse background there. But this is who I am. I now ⁓ own the education awards. I also own a radio station. You see me on the back of buses promoting the chamber.

PJ Ellis (01:54)

I saw that recently and you're in the magazines on the back of bus taxis next bab taxis

Jas Rohel (01:55)

Thank you.

gosh yeah you never know I'm going up in the world me so in a nutshell that's me

Andy Dawson (02:05)

For anyone who's not heard of and shame on them, the Education Awards, Jas, do you just want to just give us a little bit of an overview of kind of what are and how that started?

Jas Rohel (02:13)

Yeah.

Yeah, so the education awards. I came up with the concept and idea about over 10 years ago, whilst I was still working in education. And I fell into education really. I came from media, came from marketing and I fell into education

And that's when the journey really began for me in terms of looking at education, finding out actually what really is going on. And for me, very early on, I found out that, and this is my opinion, and I say this, please, nobody come after me, but the curriculum really isn't very, it's not fit for purpose.

I was a lecturer at a lovely college and university center here in Solihull called Solihull College and University Center. And very quickly I found, and this is where the education awards come in, a lot of people leaving

I suppose when you work in media, you get a bit nosy, you want to dig around and find out why, why are you leaving? What's happening here? And a lot of people just weren't recognised. And a little bit of recognition goes a long, long way.

And that's when I started thinking about the education awards really, and that's where I gave birth to it really. And these awards are for people who work in education, outstanding schools, colleges, universities, teachers, groups of people that offer their services to education, who do so much within the education sector and never get recognized.

And that's why I set it up and that's what these awards are for. I just wanted to highlight these people.

PJ Ellis (03:46)

Good luck.

Andy Dawson (03:48)

That's fab and certainly the curriculum we're going to have to come back to because I think that's a definite common. So just tell me, ⁓ what would you like going through education?

Jas Rohel (03:52)

Ooh, Andy, how long we got?

PJ Ellis (03:54)

Nice.

Jas Rohel (04:01)

Do you know what? I was a good student. I really was. I was one of those that never taught back to the teachers. I was really good. I was a bookworm and I studied extremely, extremely hard, I think now I look back and reflect, I was one of those learners that really needed to apply what I was learning to something in order to learn it.

And I suppose when I went to university and started doing media as a degree, it's very ⁓ hands on. You just have to get on and do it. You're cutting, you're editing, you're going out and creating your shows. And ⁓ that's where I was fully in my element.

Do remember those? The record of achievement folders. I love them. With all my attendance certificates. Yes. So was really good. I was a really good student, Andy. Really good.

PJ Ellis (04:45)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I always thought I was going to be academia, academia, academia, but actually naturally I was a creative. So are you trying to shine a light on those people that are doing brilliant things within education that will help people like us, you know, find the real me?

Jas Rohel (05:09)

Yes, we are. But also I remember my head teacher from when I was at primary school. And, you know, he really inspired me. It was just the way he spoke. It was just the way he'd come in to assembly.

And I just remember his stories I used to literally resonate with them and kind of go, wow, this is amazing. And I guess the education awards is to highlight people like that. It's to go back and say thank you

to highlight those kind of people, those teachers that we wished we could go back and say thank you to.

I'm pretty sure PJ you've got somebody who you would love to go back and say, hey, thank you so much.

PJ Ellis (05:50)

Yeah, Mr. McGrath and Mr. O'Brien, if you're listening, thank you you gave me a love of books Andy, who was your favorite teacher, mate?

Andy Dawson (05:58)

Mr. Sealy. a history teacher for my A levels at school. But I think it's how you perceive education, isn't it? Because you go through primary, junior, secondary school. I went through university, then into the business world. You're getting educated all the time. And I think mentors, coaches and teachers are all to be celebrated. They've all really helped me.

How did that journey go, Jas, from, right, I want to celebrate these people to having a room full of people paying you to come to these boards and buying food?

Jas Rohel (06:33)

⁓ God.

Great question, Andy. know, I, business was not my forte. I may have taught it. However, it wasn't something that I was very familiar. How do you set a business up? Yes, in theory, I knew how to, but I never really did that. And to set a business up in the events industry, pretty much is what I did. And

Andy Dawson (07:01)

Hmm.

Jas Rohel (07:03)

I've never set events up. I've never done events in my life. And I was hell bent on, this is all I'm going to do. I mean, I never even did my son's birthday parties. You kind of pay someone else to do that. This is how much I thought, yes, I can do this. And I think it was the why for me, you know, that was really driving me

to shine a torch on somebody who really deserved that recognition. And it comes back to sort of...

highlighting people who really feel invisible. And you know what, and making them be seen and heard.

If you've got an idea, go for it, just give it a go. I remember when I set the business up and

I remember I went out networking and I was at the Greater Birmingham Chamber Awards. And I thought, right, I'm going to just say, this is Jas from the Education Awards, and this is what I'm doing. And how hard can it be? Gosh, I was nervous. I was sweating bucket loads. Now I look back at those pictures. I know what I was thinking behind.

the scenes so to speak and I remember I met Andy Street, met Julian Bair from Birmingham City University, Paul Faulkner who I know you've just had on and I was walking around going well hi I'm Jas from the Education Awards and this is what I'm doing and I remember talking to Julian and Julian was just kind of like well tell me more about these awards and I said well they're awards for people who work in education a bit like yourself.

Andy Dawson (08:26)

Okay, let's see it.

Jas Rohel (08:39)

bit like your establishment. And he absolutely loved it. I've sat back down and I've gone, okay, great. I've made it. I've done my first pitch. It's all good. And he came and tapped me on the shoulder and he said, well, what is it you want from me? And I just went, oh, gosh, the most important thing in your business, your ask. I totally forgot about that one.

And I remember just thinking, my gosh, do you know what? BCU are the headline sponsors for pretty much most things. And that was at the time 10 years ago. And I was like, well, obviously I want them to be my headline sponsor. Now this is where the business plan was evolving and I suppose finance strategy started coming into play. And I was thinking about the costings at an awards evening. And I remember just kind of saying to him, I want this much money off you.

PJ Ellis (09:18)

I'm

Jas Rohel (09:27)

and I want you to be my headline sponsor. And I put my hand out and he shook it. And I just remember sitting back down and going, ⁓ my God. And I remember Andy Street was walking past. So I thought I've got leverage now. I need to speak to Andy and say to Andy. And at the time,

PJ Ellis (09:32)

Wow. I'll bear that in mind next time I see him.

Andy Dawson (09:32)

Good fact.

Jas Rohel (09:49)

he wasn't the Mayor yet and I just said I want you to be my keynote speaker. You know what I'm here all the businesses are here what else do I need I've got a headline sponsor I'll go speak to Edgbaston they're over there we'll have the awards there. ⁓ I'll get Andy to be my keynote speaker then I'll grab Paul Faulkner and I'll say to him this is what

these guys are doing, what are you going to do to help me? It just happened. And that's exactly how I came into business.

Andy Dawson (10:22)

Doesn't that show how easy it is to overthink things? And if you seize the moment, there's people there who are willing to put that hand out and help you up, there? We just assume they won't.

Jas Rohel (10:33)

100%.

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (10:34)

Yeah,

you bang on there, mate. it's binary, isn't it? You either have done that and your sliding doors moment was that evening where you decided to go and do that, or you could have sat back and selected zero and not done that. We can call that confidence, resilience, whatever we want to call it, Where did that come from on that evening? Was it a person? Was it an experience?

What generated that confidence to ask those questions?

Jas Rohel (11:02)

I I sometimes work better if I'm backed in a corner. Literally. I can procrastinate. I can relax. If I know I have to do something, I will get it done. And I think that's pretty much sort of from my conversations with a lot of people. A lot of people kind of say that, well, when it needs to be done, we'll do it. And that's me. But I think that I don't know where it came from,

I just didn't realize it was inside me. And I stepped out that night and I stepped out thinking, I don't care. This is me. What have I got to lose? You know, and I can share this now and it's part of the journey and part of the story. I didn't even tell my husband that I was setting a business up.

PJ Ellis (11:52)

Are you joking?

Jas Rohel (11:53)

No. There is a story to this. I was so buzzing. I literally was buzzing that night of, my God, I've just got a headline sponsor. I've got a keynote speaker. I've got the backing of the chamber, which is huge. People are going to take me seriously and I'm not going to stop until they do.

PJ Ellis (12:16)

love that.

Jas Rohel (12:16)

Yeah, so then that night when he came home from work, I sat there with my laptop and he's thinking why on earth, what are you doing? Why are you not asleep? I was just buzzing, I was excited and I remember showing him this website and I made up a story, right? And the story was, I went networking, went to the Greater Birmingham Chambers events and guess what? I met this person, me, and...

I saw how quickly she got a headline sponsor for these education awards that she's running. And he was like, oh, cool. That's amazing. And I was like, wow, what do you think? And I opened up the website. I showed him the logo. And he just went, OK, great. Can we go to sleep? Because I've just got in from work. I'm knackered. And then I just kept talking about it all night. And he was like, why are you?

keep going on about this and I was like, what you didn't even ask me what her name is or anything. Are you really not interested in anything I do? And he just literally was like, I've just come off a night shift. And I just kind of went, what would you say if it was me? And he just sat up, I went, what do you mean? And I went, I might be doing it, I don't know. And that's where it kind of started. And on the night of the first awards at Edgebaston,

I was stood at the back and I was just looking at everything and I remember he just came and put his arm around me and went, is this what you've been doing? I was like, ta-da!

PJ Ellis (13:49)

Wow.

that would have been a lovely moment to share.

Andy Dawson (13:55)

Yeah. I mean, and there's a, there's a definite lesson for people listening is sometimes you've just got to go, just got to take action. It's easy to procrastinate, put off till tomorrow, but winners tend to just go and take action in the moment, which is definitely what you did there. congratulations on that. So take, take us, let's move it.

Jas Rohel (13:55)

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Andy Dawson (14:20)

forward a bit. So your why was highlighting these stories, celebrating these people. So, you know, take us to a couple of the awards, your people are on the stage, who are they? What are you celebrating? What are the standout stories you've had over the years?

Jas Rohel (14:35)

Gosh, there are so many and every single one of our winners has such a story. Gosh, my first year's event, there was a lady called Margaret Scott who'd, it was her daughter who actually put the nomination through for her.

so she won the lifetime achievement award and on the night, she stood up on stage and she had us all in tears. And her words were, I can die now because yeah.

And she was an elderly lady. She'd done so much within the education sector, but guess what? She'd actually single-handedly set up without realising the first ever autistic school here in the Midlands. And this lady would have just gone through life and never been highlighted or never been recognised for what she did. To me, that's always been a driver. So for me, it's like,

If we found that one person, imagine how many more Margaret Scots are out there. The people that work in education, they put their heart and soul into it. You don't just wake up one day and say, I'm going to go and teach. You really want to make that difference. It's about the impact. It's not just about going and standing up and teaching. It's so much more. You're almost like the

caretaker of that young person or the caregiver, you care, you really care about what's happening with the young people that you are working with and it's about enabling them. That's all that teachers really want to do is to enable them to realise that they can work to their full potential. They have so much potential and imagine if there's so many more people like that out there, great, you know, and I'm just, I love it. I love what I do.

It's about making somebody feel visible.

Andy Dawson (16:30)

Yeah.

Jas Rohel (16:30)

It's not

just a trophy. Imagine when you are sin and heard, you sit up straighter, talk, you walk tall, know, with your back up and you're inspiring other people who want to be the next person to want to apply for award, to want to actually get recognized for what they do. And these are real people. and you just think, wow.

PJ Ellis (16:44)

Mm.

Jas Rohel (16:54)

That's amazing. But these are people in education, people truly want to go in and work. They just want to teach. Lockdown proved it. You know, I had so many teachers phoning me up and saying, I just want to go in and teach. That's all I want to do. And when we did a lot of lockdown diaries on radio, talking about, OK, let's highlight the teachers. Let's talk about them because

I felt during lockdown a lot of people in education just were not getting the recognition again. You we had a lot of finger pointing, look at these teachers, they're sat at home, they're always on a holiday, now they've sat at home for how many months on end, but these teachers, the ones that were going and teaching, you know they were teaching in bubbles, they were teaching the care, you know people who are at the frontline workers, their children to go in and work and they were enabling that

PJ Ellis (17:48)

amazing.

Jas Rohel (17:48)

I remember this one night, I just kind of went, I'm going to write a post. And I just ranted

It's been shared so many times. Some people have actually sent it to me and have you seen what this person's wearing?

PJ Ellis (18:02)

Wow.

What was it?

Jas Rohel (18:04)

⁓ it said teachers too are frontline workers. Teachers too are scared. Teachers too want to go back to work. They want to teach young people. They really wanted to go in and not just teach six people in a classroom. They wanted to have a class full of people and they cared.

They know the vulnerable children. They know the ones that need the extra help. They know the ones that actually haven't got it so easy at home. And here they are in their own homes and back in the classroom, worried for the ones that really need that extra help.

It was scary times.

PJ Ellis (18:41)

Mm-hmm.

Andy Dawson (18:41)

Yeah,

definitely was. And I can remember that. And I guess, you know, 10 years ago when you set the awards up and we focus on, what are we, 23rd of September, 2025 now. The topics and the futures for our kids are really up and down, aren't they? When you start to think about technology and advancements of that. And I noticed a couple of the awards you have are around the Financial Education Award.

the Innovation Award. So I'm just, curious, Jas, about where are we these days with what's important to teach our kids and what's it going to be two, three years down the line, do think?

Jas Rohel (19:24)

It's, well, it's very hard for me to answer what's going to happen two or three years down the line because things are evolving and changing on a daily basis, hourly even, to be totally fair. Look, technology, it's here and COVID taught us that. COVID taught education that it needed to embrace technology very, very quickly, we had to be virtual classrooms. In a way,

it scares me because now with chat, GPT and everything else, we're enabling young people to become a little bit lazy. And I say that because as an adult, I can become lazy. I use some of these things that are out there as tools to help me. And, know, my phone, for example, you

It thinks for me. It tells me things I need to be doing before even I know or realize I need to be doing it. And if you stop and think about that for a second, is that great? No. During lockdown, I remember my young son saying to me, okay, you know what, I want to buy this. And I was like, yeah, well,

I found the 80s ed. Remember those? And found the the maps, the roadmaps, know, the big ones that you kind of, wow, how were they safe to drive with those big?

PJ Ellis (20:35)

Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. ridiculous,

ridiculous.

Jas Rohel (20:45)

Anyhow, I remember throwing this A to Z at him and saying, right, okay, I'll tell you what, if you can find where we live on this A, in this A to Z, I might buy you that thing. And I remember for ages, he was just like, what, what do you mean? Just, just, just ask.

PJ Ellis (21:03)

Hmm.

Jas Rohel (21:04)

Or what are satnavs for? And I was trying to encourage him to say, look, we rely so much on technology, that what would you do if it stopped? How are you going to learn to navigate or find out you're lost in a car? How are you going to figure it out?

PJ Ellis (21:15)

you

Jas Rohel (21:23)

He started looking at that and kind of going, well, OK, it took a long time to find. But this is what we're doing to our young people.

PJ Ellis (21:32)

Interestingly, I was talking to my son the other day about something, I can't remember exactly what it was, but he didn't know what a postcode was, let alone what our postcode is. ⁓ And he's a bright kid. You know, it's bizarre, isn't it?

Jas Rohel (21:46)

I don't know that PJ, but they might know what three words.

PJ Ellis (21:49)

⁓ yeah. Well, hang on. Yeah. They'll know how to put it into a map or what three words, know, we are egg, cow, junction, wherever it might be. I still can't get that myself to be fair. Anyway, what I'm really interested in and it sort of comes back to the things you've just said and Andy's question. My sister's

teacher. My mom was around education for years. Actually, without getting too deep, since we've lost mom, some of the most powerful conversations I've had around were around how mom affected their lives, changed the way they thought, their faith, their confidence. So I'm a big, big believer that education is so important for a number of reasons that I didn't think.

necessarily the case. As a kid, I always thought it was just learning, academic and off you go. But it's so much more powerful. You have been around that. You're celebrating those people that are doing those brilliant things within that space. You started this conversation saying that the curriculum probably does need looking at. There's loads of different ways of educating that's coming up in America. There's these alpha schools, blah, blah, blah. What more of these brilliant things that these brilliant people that you're shining a light on?

Do you think we should be doing with younger kids? What are those things that we should be doing earlier?

Jas Rohel (23:07)

think, look, when I speak to employers, employers want young people to come with their qualifications, which great. However, they want them to be resilient. They want them to think outside the box. They want them to stick to something and see it through and do all of these things. And these are the kind of things that we need to actually put into the curriculum

regardless. So we need to get into the habit of putting that within the actual structure of the curriculum. And like I said to you right at very beginning, my personal opinion is that the curriculum is not fit for purpose. I apologise to anybody I might offend with that, but I haven't come across anybody who hasn't disagreed yet. But I do firmly believe that businesses...

need to get involved with the curriculum when it's set from a very early age. What is the purpose of us, let's say, you know, teaching young people, let's say business or telling them all about businesses later in the education structure. So let's say secondary, that's when you kind of go, right, okay, these are the businesses out there, go find out. Imagine for a second if we taught that and we got them talking about JLR, for example, you know, we can't get away with

what's going on and I'm kind of like glued to the news listening to what's happening and listening to all the debates out there. If we get them used to talking about this and learning about it from a very, very early age, I even argue primary level, get them involved, teach them to apply whatever it is you're doing to real actual businesses out there and businesses get involved and

Businesses always say to me, we want to get involved, but we just don't know how. Educators always say to me, we want businesses involved, but we just don't know how. And I've become this link or the go-to of jazz. How do we do this? You've got some businesses. I've started doing a lot of project-based work. So, and I'll give you an example. So if you're teaching somebody, let's say we've got 30 students, they're learning IT. Part of the curriculum is,

Andy Dawson (25:05)

you

Jas Rohel (25:23)

create a website. Yeah, but if we can go to businesses and say, I'll tell you what, we'll give you 30 students who can create you a website or give you a template of a website and you can pick anyone you want. However, one thing is you need to come in or you need to actually give set that project to them. The project is the assignment. So it's quite simple when you think about it. They have to learn the curriculum and they'll learn it. And that's where the lecturers and the teachers come into play.

Andy Dawson (25:25)

Yeah.

Jas Rohel (25:53)

the business just forms itself as part of the assignment. And hopefully not just does that teach them how to apply it, but also as well, it gives them the biggest thing, which is work experience, which we talk about. And it's difficult. It's so difficult. Every single school needs to put their young people through work experiences and they go knocking on doors for businesses as and when they need it. And just yesterday,

I was sat at a board meeting with the Solihull Chambers of Commerce and this came up on the agenda as an item. So, you know, I'm pretty sure I can say this now, we're going to run a forum on this. And I genuinely do say to a lot of businesses, please come along and get engaged. If you want to learn how to work with educators and educators, if you want to learn how to engage with businesses, come along because that's what this is about because

Quite often we find businesses are just kind of thinking, well, I've got to a CSR for this. It's not the case. If a business has got a real problem, if we ask the young people to come up with a solution, I'll tell you what, they're pretty savvy and they can think outside of the box. They just don't realize it. It's these projects that will enable them to inspire themselves a little bit more to go, ⁓ my gosh, I can. And I did that. And imagine for a second, yes, we talk about people getting recognized.

Imagine what that's going to do to that young person who, let's say, I don't know, Andy, your business picked a young person's website designed to be your website. Imagine that for a second. What's that going do to that child? I'll tell you one more thing on what's really important about having project engagement going on with Equiclum and becoming that assignment. Very quickly we'll get young people realizing, my gosh, by doing it.

Andy Dawson (27:33)

Yeah. Nice.

Jas Rohel (27:48)

by the application of the curriculum. I hated every moment of this. I did not enjoy this. That's magic right there. I'll tell you why. Okay, and then I'll stop talking about this. Imagine that young person isn't going to go on and do a three-year degree or a two years at college in that subject because that's what they thought they wanted to do because they've never had the exposure or never had a reason to apply it to anything.

Suddenly they've applied it and they've realized, my God, my experience of this was awful. Great, we're saving that young person from spending all this money, going to university, coming out going, hmm. And that what happens to that mindset? They'll either become depressed because they think, well, I've done a degree and that's what I told her how to do. And I've wasted all this money and I'm not being employed because there are a lack of jobs out there, but also I don't like it.

PJ Ellis (28:44)

Mm. Thank God.

Jas Rohel (28:46)

hate it and that's critical. ⁓

Andy Dawson (28:48)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (28:48)

Hmm.

Andy Dawson (28:49)

Yeah. I think even, you know, God, I'm old. I feel old every day, but you know, at my stage and people around me who, have a similar age, I'm 50s plus, you're having to make hundreds of bets these days, you know, in a business to find out what works because it's such a fast moving environment. The old rules, the old ways of winning and working don't work anymore. So what I love about

the story you've just shared about not going to university because you found out you didn't like something is I've got two lads can be competitive. They don't like to lose. Well, I think the important thing to learn these days is to lose is to fail is to get stuck down a cul-de-sac because you know, then we're to point yourself. ⁓ and that's going to become increasingly important as let's assume technology does a lot of the, the clever stuff you can easily learn. then becomes about.

what interests you, what can you apply yourself to and how do you work out how to win. But that's a great way of looking at it, Jas.

Jas Rohel (29:53)

100 % you know, look, education sector, people are so quick to point the finger, so quick to point the finger. You know, we've got young people running around, you know, thinking it's okay to kill someone. That to me is like what is going on here? You know, and we hear it more and more and more and that worries me. Now, a lot of people point the finger at education and say, well, the teachers need to teach them not to do that.

It's not just educators. I argue the case here. know, I argue that actually it's not just educators. There's, we have to bring the whole community together. We have to bring people together. we have to bring every single business together. It's everyone's responsibility to come together, to address this as an issue because it is an issue. It's a massive issue. And you know, with, with all this technology coming in.

PJ Ellis (30:37)

So

Jas Rohel (30:42)

When you sit and talk to young people who have done something quite awful, when you sit and talk to them, they kind of say, well, I didn't think that person was going to be hurt or damaged in that sense, right? And that's what scares me because they're playing all these video games. They're playing, they're in this kind of AI weird world that they think, well, it's fine to get stabbed. It's fine to get shot in a game because then I might come alive again.

Well, actually, no, we don't have three lives. We only have the one. We collectively have to come together to address this as an issue, the police and everybody. It's so quick to point finger to say it's someone else's problem. And that's probably why we're in the situation we're in as a society. But that's completely different.

PJ Ellis (31:10)

Hmm.

I get where you're coming from I mean, I often slip into the whole sort of thing, go, you know, this is the digital world and this is the real world. But in fact, it's all combined into one, isn't it? I don't think there are two worlds, but they do think there are. But so, Jaz, listen, I think what you're doing at the moment and what you're saying and all these things that are yet to come, I think are really exciting. I think you're making a real difference and that whole

shine a light on those people that do often feel invisible or don't even know that they do want that pat on the back that I think everyone benefits from. What about you? I know that you also are going through a bit of a personal journey at the moment. How do you stay so focused and energized? And every time I've seen you, you've always, regardless of what I know you're going through and have been through, always smiling, always welcoming, always helpful.

What keeps you motivated and resilient and ambitious?

Jas Rohel (32:22)

You know I think we all go through things in life and I'll tell you what setbacks and failures have really made me realise what I am like as a person as well and I've learnt so much about myself. I'll show you that picture I painted that. Yes yeah.

PJ Ellis (32:40)

Really? Talk me through that. Is that a London? I can see

Andy Dawson (32:40)

Wow.

PJ Ellis (32:44)

a red bus in the background or is that Birmingham?

Jas Rohel (32:47)

Yeah, London.

PJ Ellis (32:48)

That's amazing. Let's have a look at it. Mate, that looks like, holy Lord, when did you learn to do that?

Jas Rohel (32:53)

Right, so I'll tell you what, took me two years, two years to paint that. And that was when I was struggling. know, I, running a business is never easy. It's, and as we discussed earlier on, it's never this journey of, yeah, we're sat in a really nice car, we're driving. It's a roller coaster. You know, I don't care what anyone says. It's, you really don't know when you work for yourself, you're, you're everything.

Andy Dawson (32:54)

limit.

Jas Rohel (33:23)

And, you know, people automatically assume that, ⁓ gosh, you're in business. You must be rolling in money. The times I've actually turned around and thought, gosh, I'd much rather have an easy life. What keeps me going, you know, in times like that? My family. My network. My network's really important. My friendship network, my personal networks. And I think network is key to anything you do in life.

PJ Ellis (33:33)

Yeah.

Yep. Okay.

Jas Rohel (33:47)

That's me. Your personal network as a unit, there's just the three of us in this house. And we always say to our son, if one of us is having a wobble, it affects all of us. So let's talk about this. You pick up on signs that one's not well, let's go fill their cup. It's only half empty then let's go fill it up for them and take it over. I've often walked in and kind of said to my husband,

Andy Dawson (34:08)

Thank

Jas Rohel (34:13)

I'm at 40 % today and it's like, don't worry, I've got the next 60, you're sorted. It's about having those real conversations with each other and learning to ask for help when you need it. And you know, I had my fair share of troubles, who hasn't? You're running a business and you know you're going to have strange struggles within business. But in personal life, you you go from a steady income to suddenly, oh my goodness, I don't think...

I need to pay everybody before I can pay myself. You're the last person you pay yourself when you felt out of business. And it's a struggle. So you imagine that for a second and you think, gosh, I've really, and you think for other people all the time. I don't want to bring culture into it. Well, let's just do it anyway. You know, being India and it's difficult sometimes, but it's great. ⁓ And there's those cultural things that you need to be, to think about also as well. And I think, you know, all of this stuff,

carrying on, it affected my mental health. It really, truly did. And I can openly talk about it. I went down dark rabbit holes, only those who know know. And I can talk about this now and I'll be very upfront with you. Three years ago, I made that decision to actually take up some counseling because I kept having these little demons. And I'll tell you what the problem was. It was the conversation and the relationship I was having with myself.

Right? That's what I realised very, very quickly that actually, you know what, Jas, can you not talk properly to yourself? You're highlighting all these amazing people out there and telling them how amazing they are. You're on radio talking about lots of different things and why is your conversations with yourself so negative? And that's where I decided, you know what, I'm going to sort this out once and for all. And I decided to take some counselling. my gosh, the best thing I've ever done.

PJ Ellis (36:07)

Hmm.

Jas Rohel (36:07)

Does that

make me a failure? Absolutely not. I'm winning at life. I'm recognising that I was failing in a certain area and I needed to focus on me, no one else but me because you know what? I matter. And that was the one year I focused on myself and I tell you something, I literally felt great. I was going up and by that I mean mentally feeling amazing. And it was this picture.

that I started painting every day, I needed to do something to make my mind still. Not think about work, not thinking about anything else, but for me. And it took two years, so I'm not a painter. Gosh,

Andy Dawson (36:46)

Looks pretty good

to me.

PJ Ellis (36:48)

He looks

amazing to be fair.

Jas Rohel (36:50)

It was painful, best of times, being very, but I needed to do something I could not do in order to just still the mind and focus on other things. And it was in that year actually that I started taking the counseling and you know, it's weird how the universe really does work. That November, fast forward, I found out that I got diagnosed with cancer. Perfectly fine now, but the reality is had I not taken that counseling,

I don't think I would have actually dealt with it that well. So it's amazing how things happen to you, but you do need to recognise and learn from it. And I think it's really important. The relationship, first and foremost, that you really need to have the strongest and build it up is with yourself. Before you do anything, build up your relationship with yourself and make yourself happy. Whatever that happy thing is you want to do, be it have a gin and tonic, be it paint, be it whatever.

But please, please, please just be nice to yourselves. That's all I can say. And I think that that's the grounding for anyone out there and stick it in a curriculum. do you know, just imagine, imagine that. ⁓

PJ Ellis (38:04)

Thank you for sharing that with us, Jack. That was really powerful. Thank you.

Andy Dawson (38:09)

Yeah, no, jazz is amazing. And I guess the final reflection from me is I think we do spend about 80 % of our time talking to ourselves, don't we? think we're the person we talk to the most and often we forget the importance of being kind, you know, and being kind to ourselves. So thank you for sharing that. There'll be a lot of people out there who'll benefit from listening to that as well, for sure.

PJ Ellis (38:34)

Yeah, massively. Jas, think my sort of parting gift to our listeners, but it's come from you, is just to summarize a few takeaways that I write down. There'll be plenty more and we could talk forever. I genuinely cannot believe how quick that has gone. Check this out. Get businesses around schools as soon as possible. Do or don't rant with a gin and tonic on Facebook.

The curriculum needs looking out. I think we all give a bit of a green tick to that. ⁓ I like this in life. People don't understand that they probably need to be recognized sometimes. That pat on the back goes a long way. Talking to yourself is just so important. Hey, you're so kind to others. Why aren't we that to ourselves? ⁓ I love this. Be more Margaret Scott. If Margaret's listening, what a legend. Step out.

What have you got to lose? Fill up other people's cup. Andy, the first thing you used to say to me, one of the things you used to talk was about that stress container thing. Yeah, the stress cup. I actually gone cold when you said that, mate, when your husband turned around and said, it's all right, mate, know, that 60 % is here. ⁓ And you know I could go on and one of them is you matter. I wrote that down. I might put that over the bloody door or something when I leave because...

Andy Dawson (39:36)

Yeah. Stress.

Clear.

PJ Ellis (39:56)

Yeah, that's so powerful. Thank you, Jess. ⁓

Jas Rohel (39:59)

It's

pleasure and I can't thank you enough, but you're right, you do matter. All of us absolutely do matter, especially with what's going on in this day and age as well, in this world. But we just need to be nicer to one another. And there's going to be moments when you don't like what someone else is saying, but guess what? Just walk away quietly. Don't engage. Let people be.

PJ Ellis (40:20)

Love that.

On that note, I think we're going to end it there because I can't think of a nice way of ending. What a lovely, lovely sentiment to leave this conversation on. Jas, thank you for being so open. Thank you for spending some time on the WittonGrip podcast and have a lovely day,

Andy Dawson (40:33)

Yes.

Jas Rohel (40:36)

Thank you, Bab. ⁓