Steve Palmer [00:00:00]:

Alright. Here we are back with another episode of lawyer talk q and a. What is lawyer talk q and a? Well, it is lawyer talk question and answer. It's not legal advice. I'm not giving folks legal advice. If you need legal advice, I highly recommend that you go talk to a lawyer who can give you legal advice. What I'm doing here is for entertainment and maybe answer some, questions, clear up some legal misunderstandings out there as a general matter. That said, today's question, Steve, love your podcast.

Steve Palmer [00:00:25]:

Thank you. This comes from Thomas, by the way. Steve, love your podcast. Keep it coming. I was recently talking to my neighbor who was pulled over for DUI. He was complaining that it was unfair that the police were waiting outside the bar and followed him and pulled him over for rolling through a stop sign. How can that be legal? Well, this is a great question. It's a great question because it's timely.

Steve Palmer [00:00:45]:

Next week, we have Saint Patrick's Day, and everybody knows that Saint Patrick's Day is, amateur hour as far as drinking goes. I'm joking. But everybody and their mother is out drinking on Saint Patrick's Day. The bars are packed. People are driving home. People are thinking they're gonna get safe rides. They don't get safe rides. They think they're gonna take Uber.

Steve Palmer [00:01:01]:

They don't get Uber, and they drive home, and they get pulled over for drinking and driving. So, you know, I like to fish. I like to hunt. And when I fish and hunt, I go where the fish and the wild game are. In other words, I don't go hunt for deer in my backyard in the city because I know there's not gonna be deer any there. I go to the woods where I think the deer will be. And when I go fishing up in Lake Erie see, I'm in Ohio. I go fishing up in Lake Erie for walleye.

Steve Palmer [00:01:26]:

We have little fish finders, and we go patrol where the experience of the captain tells us the fish will be. Why am I talking about fish? Why am I talking about deer? Because the police are gonna do the same thing. The police are gonna go look for drunk drivers and people driving under the influence of alcohol where they think the drunk drivers will be. And it's probably not at church on Sunday morning. It's gonna be outside the bar at 2AM when people are leaving. Now does that make it right? I I don't know if it makes it right, but it's not necessarily illegal either. So let's play this scenario out. The cop is waiting outside the bar.

Steve Palmer [00:02:02]:

He sees somebody come and get in his car. And, you know, maybe let's let's assume for our facts. Let's say our hero in this story is not stumbling, falling over, serpentine walking to his car, and rather just looks normal. Normally walks to his car, opens up the door, no issues there, gets in the car, no issues there. The police note all this, and they follow this guy anyway. And at the first stop sign or the first stoplight, the guy sort of does the California roll, goes through the stop sign so the police pull him over. Lo and behold, they encounter the driver. He's got bloodshot, glassy eyes, slurred speech.

Steve Palmer [00:02:35]:

The police ask for his identification and or his insurance and or his registration. Maybe the guy has trouble, fumbling for his license, doesn't find his registration right away, and the police see clues of impairment. They order him out. They have him do field sobriety test. Next thing you know, they're calling me and saying, I need help. I just got charged with OVI here in Ohio or DUI, wherever you are, whatever you call it. Now is that fair? I'm not gonna say it's fair, but it's also not unconstitutional. Not saying I agree, but, you know, we operate in the real world where we have to deal with objective reality.

Steve Palmer [00:03:10]:

And we can complain that this isn't fair all we want, that the police were just following this guy because they thought he might be under the influence of alcohol only because he was leaving a bar. But the police are allowed to do that. And, you know, we've talked about this in some of our other series about a reasonable expectation of privacy in our cars. Now we still have a reasonable expectation of privacy in our cars, so the police can't just pull you over willy nilly for no reason. Checkpoints are a different issue. We'll get to those some other episode. I think we have actually. But they gotta have a reason to pull you over.

Steve Palmer [00:03:37]:

And here, the traffic violation would be enough reason to pull you over. They don't necessarily need a reason to follow you and see if you will commit a traffic violation, and that's what's here. So generally, to pull a car over, they the it's a as I've said before, a police stop is a significant intrusion under the fourth amendment that requires justification. That's a US Supreme Court case called Delaware versus Prouse, back in '84 maybe. I don't know. I'm guessing. But here, they had a reason to pull this guy over and conduct the investigatory stop based on the traffic violation. Now it doesn't mean we can't defend it.

Steve Palmer [00:04:12]:

Doesn't mean that the neighbor here is totally screwed. He may be depending on the evidence. We would go to work on it. But one of the things that we're gonna be stuck with is likely that the stop in, the in other words, the motor vehicle stop by the police is probably gonna be justified under the fourth amendment like it or not. So fair or not, the police go fishing for drunk drivers where the drunk drivers are likely to be, and that's just how it is. So I love the question because it lets me talk about this stuff, and it lets me dig into these deeper issues. If you've got a question, if you want me to cover a topic, go to lawyertalkpodcast.com, and there's a little form you can fill out, shoot me a question, or go to the socials and leave me a comment, suggest something. And I sometimes respond to the comments, both good and bad, or at least I do my best.

Steve Palmer [00:04:57]:

I actually have a a real law practice. But, anyway, till next time. This is lawyer talk, q and a style, off the record, on the air. Till now.