Hello, welcome back to Emerging Excellence.

I'm your host, Felicity Fury, CEO of We Aspire.

And I'm joined by the incredible Brett Bassett, CEO of Qleave.

How are you, Brett?

I'm well, Felicity.

How are you?

I'm awesome.

It's been a big week.

I've actually been doing a lot of celebrating for International Women in Engineering Day.

So I think I'm off the back of five speeches in the last two weeks, so it's been pretty busy.

But very good.

How about you?

What's been happening in your world?

Not much.

I'm sitting at home today on my deck, working from home, feeling very relaxed actually.

So it's the first time we've done a podcast whilst I've been at home like this, so I'm actually feeling very relaxed.

A lot going on at work, but no, still really, really relaxed and good.

Amazing.

We've got a great topic today that was actually suggested by Michael.

So thank you very much, Michael, for bringing this topic in.

It's something that I've been really exploring recently, which is changing your identity and helping you see yourself newly in a new identity.

So for me, I've actually been finding it quite tricky to step into that role of CEO of We asy, even though it's actually been quite some time that I've, you know, been in this position.

But Brett, you've actually been really helping me be a fresh perspective on what that could look like.

And it's been so empowering.

So firstly, thank you for helping me because it's been a huge transformation for me and I'm still on journey.

There's a few people in your world too that you've helped with this.

How do you help people see themselves newly, whether it's a new role or something they're capable of that they don't normally see themselves as.

Thank you, Felicity, for saying that.

I think for me, I've just learned by experience, right?

Everybody has imposter syndrome In a new role.

It doesn't matter whether you're a first time CEO or the first time supervisor or team leader.

I'm sure that every single person has imposter syndrome, right?

And I think, look, what I've learned over my career is that it's okay to have doubt.

And it's only when you have doubt that you actually understand what is important about leadership.

And it's this one thing that I keep coming back to every single time we have a conversation.

In order to lead others, you need, you first need to learn how to lead self.

And so for Me, I think the reason that I love to have the conversation about helping somebody step into an identity is I've had imposter syndrome pretty much all throughout my career.

There's no doubt about it.

And still on a.

On a regular basis in my current role, I still think, oof, how did I get here?

What am I doing here?

And why will I continue to be here?

But I think what that means for me is that imposter syndrome, or helping somebody understand an identity that they're in will never, ever, I think, will never end.

It's almost like that constant learning.

So for me, sort of rabbiting on, but for me, it's really about saying, you have to learn what it is to be in the new role.

That comes with time, it comes with practice, it comes with experience, it comes with failure, it comes with success, it comes with emotion.

So for me, I think that's.

That's the way I look at it.

There's a lot to unpack in that word identity.

And it can.

It has me be stuck in some ways, even just looking back saying, I'm an engineer, I think even having myself in the engineer box.

And then I'm in my first role when I stepped away from engineering and it was my first consulting role, and my manager at the time, who's an incredible former CEO, said to me, you're going to have to give up that you're an engineer and step into being a consultant.

And I thought, why?

I said, that's really interesting.

I thought that was a bit strange.

Well, and I think that I'm really proud to be an engineer.

And that problem solving, thinking approach, I think really helps me.

But I think it can also be an identity which limits me.

And then often when we work in our programs, there are a lot of people there who don't identify as a leader.

That's our leaders are CEO leaders this.

Leaders this.

Well, we know everyone's a leader in the leading self is being a leader.

And so sometimes there's been those identities which have helped me and some that have held me back.

Have you had any identities for yourself that have held you back or feel like had you been stuck?

An identity that's helped held me back, I think.

I think being an imposter is potentially that.

I don't know that that's held me back.

I mean, if I go back to core, core things for me, and we've spoken about this at infinitum, I'm sitting here today because I'm a failure.

I failed grade 12, tried uni the first time.

And I went down this path as a result of me failing in those two instances.

So for me, I.

I don't think I've really.

Apart from, you know, the imposter thing is always front of mind for me.

For me, I think the one thing I would say about an identity is I think if you embrace it, it actually can help you be a better version of the identity that you're trying to be every single day, if that makes sense.

So I'm here because I'm a failure.

I don't shy away from that.

I own it.

I embrace it.

It empowers me.

And so I think, like when you, when I heard you say, you know, that one of your mentors had said, you have to stop being an engineer, I don't know if you heard, but I said, but why?

That's part of who you are.

It's part of your fabric, part of what makes you great at what you do.

So.

So for me, I think the answer is no.

I don't really have anything that's defined me in a negative way around identity.

I probably tend to look at it as a little bit more positive.

That's the way I look at it.

I like adding strings to your bow, like, those are your.

And yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's because you can't change your past.

Right?

You can't change the fact that you made those spares or, you know, that I've done an engineering degree, that that is what it is.

I really like that perspective of using it to your advantage, really.

I think, I think as you talked this one time, and I've spoken about this in the podcast before, there was one time when I was in an organization senior role, probably my first really senior role a number of organizations ago now.

And I was very emotional as a leader.

I thought it was passion.

It's just naivety and it was stupidity.

And I remember I got really grumpy with my team at the time and I slammed my hand on the desk.

And the identity that I took there, if I thinking about it now, was it wasn't a context conscious decision, it was almost an autonomous decision or something that just happened.

I took the identity of a disappointed leader who was grumpy.

And I thought that's what people wanted to see.

It didn't engage with them, didn't engender me very well to them and caused them a lot of frustration and concern.

So that's an example where there was a negative impact on being, creating an identity, but it wasn't.

It was something that just came and happened, if that makes sense.

Yeah, for sure.

It's an interesting one because I think it's like what it's like chicken or egg.

It's like, do you get the role and then you have the, you know, then the imposter comes up or do you feel like you can do it or which one kind of do you do first?

And the one for me around CEO has been interesting because I've had a lot of, it's really had me explore beliefs and what are my self beliefs and what's coming up for me kind of that next layer down out of, you know, being an imposter.

And I didn't really realize I had all these beliefs till you were drawing it out of me.

And even Michael, I remember Michael said to me, what belief do you have to give up to step into this?

And that really got me thinking from a different perspective and helped me see there's beliefs that I'm holding on to for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, that if I let go of some of those, then it would really open up a lot more for me in this role of CEO.

And being that, what have you seen that's been effective for people that you're working with to step into these new roles to help them maybe get over that imposter syndrome, be who they are, leverage those strengths.

What have you found has worked?

I think a willingness to self reflect is a really important thing that I've seen that works exceptionally well.

I mean, I still self reflect literally every day about what went well, what hasn't gone well, etc.

For me, that's a fantastic, a fantastic tool or resource where I've seen that be really helpful in helping people understand how they need to step into something or step away from something.

I think establishing a purpose, you know, and saying this is what I want to do or this is why I want to do it.

I mean, Simon Sinek talks about why and I, I love that, that conversation that Sinek has about why, you know what' your why.

I love that because it helps people think about not necessarily just the what they're doing, but what is it that they hope to achieve at the end point, if that makes sense.

I mean, I'm a big believer in legacy and I've spoken before about the Legacy book previously.

So I think for me there's some great tools where I use them and I've helped people and supported people in using them and they've said to me that they're great tools as well for me.

So for me, I think anything where you reflect about where you are now versus where you want to be in the future and then the experiential piece that you gain every single day in doing the job, I think are all fantastic tools to help you understand, to grow and to continue to learn about the identity that you're trying to be in the new role.

And that's something I think you helped me do too, was actually go back and look at my CV and look at those experiences because we often don't stop to actually do that.

And I hadn't looked at my CV since I would fly through my last role, which was like five or six years ago.

So actually there's a lot of what's happened in that time and even the context and the lens which I saw my CV through was really interesting because often my CV was for a project manager role or something in engineering.

But then when I went, okay, if I look at my CV through the lens of leadership, where have I been a leader?

And if it was even looking right back at an experience I had when I was working at Brisbane City Council and when I started I was given these road projects, it was about $20 million with the road projects.

And then within a couple of months one of my projects had finished and they gave me another project and the next one was worth over 20 million.

So then my portfolio was 45.

And I've never seen, oh wow, someone gave me a leadership opportunity at 23 years old for more responsibility.

But it never occurred to me like that because I wasn't bringing that lens of leadership to it.

So I think those lenses and the perspective you bring when you're reflecting is really powerful.

And as someone who self analyzes a lot and can do a bit of analysis by parallel.

Was it paralysis by analysis?

Whichever way you say it, I often can find it tricky to not go down those rabbit holes of negativity.

Have you got any suggestions on how do you reflect in a way that's, I guess, helpful for someone like me who wants to overanalyze everything?

I've got a real life example.

So recently I had a conversation with one of our leaders and this person is in a, is in a great role running a program of work for us.

And they came to me and they, and they, they were doubting what they'd brought to the organization and they were really, really doubting it and said, I don't know if I, if I can do this anymore.

And I said, what I want you to do is I want you to go away And I want you to draw two columns in your program.

What was in existence prior to you commencing the program and what's in existence now.

And they sent an email to me today outlining these two programs, sorry, the before and after and the amount of things that this person had achieved that they hadn't actually reflected on because they didn't put it down in black and white on paper.

And then they ended up coming back and saying, you were right, I've achieved so much.

And I didn't think about that.

So I think that's a, that's an example where this person was doubting and the data took the emotion away by allowing them to see in black and white how much of a contribution they had, have and are having to the program of work that they're running.

And I think, Felicity, that that's not dissimilar to what you were talking about from your experience at the Brisbane City Council.

Right.

Sometimes we get caught up in the.

It's taking time or it's hard or it goes a long, long way down the track when you can't see the end point.

But if you get back to black and white, what was the starting point?

Where are we now?

And have I made a difference?

I think that's a really great example and a great tool for people to get out of the negative and actually have some data that says this is what I'm achieving.

Because I can be really harsh on myself, for sure.

I'm sure a lot of people can.

And I often have this crazy high expectation of myself.

But even just doing the job is really.

Could be really incredible.

The fact that I've done it or I've completed it or even when starting the charity, as an example, met someone recently and they said, oh, the fact that you even started the charity and got funding for it, that's huge.

So many people don't even get any funding.

And I thought, I never thought that that was a cool thing or like that was significant.

I was like, I was just doing it and you're just getting on with the job.

And she said, no, that's really hard to.

In the fact it's been going for 12 years, that's not usual.

So I think it can help those extra perspectives too, of getting an outside view or even writing it from the perspective of I want to share this with somebody can be really powerful as well.

That's right.

And I hope you don't mind.

I'm just going to reflect on a conversation that you and I had started before we started today where And I'll paraphrase here, but you were suggesting that you were surprised that as a result of a conversation you had with somebody, that you were a peer to another CEO.

Right?

Yes.

I think when we think about that identity piece, often when somebody is new into a role, and I've seen this and I've done this myself, they don't feel comfortable sitting at the level of others who have been in the role for longer, simply because they don't have as much time in the role or experience in the role, if that makes sense.

And what I find really, really empowering is realizing or accepting that whilst you might be new into a role, whether it's a really, really senior role or a less senior role, you have something to bring and something to give that the person sitting opposite you may not actually have.

And so, from that perspective, from an identity point of view, or how do we own or step into a new role?

What I would say to those people who might be listening is the fact that you're in the role gives you the ability and agency to act like you are at that level.

And so similar to what I said to you before, well, you are a CEO and you bring different skills and different experiences in different perspectives to other people who have been CEOs, doesn't mean that you're any less or more experienced or more at a higher level or lower level from a peer perspective, if that makes sense.

And I think sometimes, as I said, people feel that they've got to sit back into a role.

Yeah, that's fine.

But the fact that you've got the role means that you own it.

So own it, believe in it, identify with it, and then importantly, just jump into the conversation as though you are an equal.

Yeah, that's good.

That was one of my big challenges, was going, oh, well, it's our business.

I've created myself as a CEO.

I've been appointed.

No one appointed me.

I feel like I need to be anointed or something as a CEO to go, you are.

You appointed me.

You put.

You appointed you.

I did.

So I feel a bit.

That's probably the imposter piece, I think, to go, oh, I need someone else to do it, which I, you know, I've worked through, I've done the reflection.

I know that's all, you know, bs, but it's been interesting to notice those judgments you have about it or opinions or perspectives that are just silly.

And I think you can learn something from everyone.

And even if it's someone who's not doing the right thing as well.

You can learn from that too.

So, yeah, you can absolutely learn from every single person.

Final thoughts, Brett.

Identity.

Creating it.

How do you be the best version of you?

Any final thoughts?

Reflect, reflect, reflect, learn.

Don't stop trying to be better.

That's simple for me.

What about you?

I feel own who you are.

I really like that.

And sometimes you don't even know how awesome you are until you actually take the time to stop and think.

And I.

And it's easy to get caught up in.

Should be this should be sweating towards a goal.

Be great now and figure out what is that thing that makes you awesome and go for that.

Thanks, Brett.

What is that thing that makes you awesome?

Oh, I like that.

That's a good way to look at it.

What makes you awesome, Brett?

I'm just me.

I am the authentic me.

There are no.

What makes me awesome is.

There are no.

There's no pretense with me.

I just am who I am.

And that can come with all its greatness and all its horribleness.

But no, that's the thing.

I think that makes me awesome as a leader.

I'm just the true me.

Yeah.

What makes you awesome?

I feel like giving it a go.

I feel like that's part of it is like no matter what, figuring it out and being determined to find a way and yeah, no matter what experience where I've come from, giving it a go.

And yeah, I think being open.

Being open to ideas and possibilities.

Here's to striving to be awesome.

Striving to be awesome.

I'd love to know the people listening what makes you awesome?

And write in, send us a message, let us know.

Or feel free to ask us a question.

We'd love to answer your question as well.

Thanks, Brett.

It's been awesome, as always.

And I'll see you on the next one.

Thanks, Felicity.