Digital Dominoes. Hello and welcome to this episode. I'm Angeline Corvaglia. Today I'm with Sahaj Vaidya, an AI policy expert at SuperAlign and researcher with a passion for helping people improve their AI skills and literacy. She's also the person who was the original inspiration for the creation of Ayla AI Girl as a separate Data Girl character on [00:00:30] Data Girl and Friends, our main sponsor.

Thank you so much for being here. It's great to see you again. Hi, thank you so much for having me on this session today. Feels really great to be here and connect with you once again after a long period of time. And this also gives me an opportunity to connect with the audience and share my insights and experience based on the research that I have done.

I'm looking forward to it. It's actually been around a year since, since we first spoke. So, so much has [00:01:00] happened in the past year. And one of the things I'm really interested in is how the digital world can be seen and experienced from different cultures. Today, Sahaj and I are going to talk about how traditional cultural expectations interact with the way children present themselves online, including the pressures of maintaining a perfect digital persona.

So I think it's really interesting because you're from India originally, so it will be a different perspective compared to what I even know at all. [00:01:30] Right. That makes sense. So actually, all of us know that India is a vast and very populous country, and it's a quite unique mix of different culture and traditions, different languages, people have varied backgrounds, ethnicities.

So, the intersection of the traditional cultural expectations and societal norms, uh, significantly influence how adolescents present themselves online. Leading to kind of unique pressures [00:02:00] and maintaining digital personas. So it's like, I can give you that in the Indian culture, the collective image and the reputation of family often take precedence over the individual expression.

So for example, I want to go online and post something on say Instagram, then I would be a little hesitant for a few seconds and think like, huh, when will my family think about me if I post something like this, so the family values, the family expectations and thinking. Take a front seat. That's interesting.

Have you [00:02:30] seen any kind of development in a sense over time, or is it really so strong in the culture? I was just talking to someone this morning from Kenya and she was saying that maybe the adolescents are a little bit more opening to this American way of presenting themselves, but obviously it depends on the culture to culture, like how strong that the original also pressure maybe is from the family.

So have you seen any kind of [00:03:00] development? So now that with the advent of these kind of tools, I wouldn't necessarily emphasize on AI, but I would rather focus on the digital transformation. So I would say now that India has also gone a very drastic digital transformation in the last almost five to seven years, people are kind of becoming a little more aware about the online life, like what it looks like to post online or how you can create your image [00:03:30] online and things like that.

So people are opening up and adapting to those things. But for people above a certain age, accepting those things is really difficult. Whereas for teens, adolescents, And maybe parents who are in their maybe early 30s or like that, but then it's becoming a daily norm. But for people above that age barrier, it's still a far away thing.

Does that have an impact on the relationships between the [00:04:00] different generations? I would imagine that that's kind of very difficult to deal with and also I can imagine there would be potential impact on the ability to keep adolescents safe online, if there's such a huge gap. I mean, it's anywhere, I think anywhere in the world, the older generations have trouble knowing what to do to keep adolescents safe online.

But if there's such a strong cultural, I would say, avergence [00:04:30] to it. This actually leads to adolescents creating kind of two separate personas. One for the family and the elders, showcasing, you know, kind of respectful, traditional behavior. And another for their peers and friends, which may be more adventurous and expressive in nature.

So this kind of dual identity leads to identity fragmentation, where the individuals feel that they cannot authentically express themselves in either of these ways. Then they may feel pressured to present a very [00:05:00] perfect digital persona that aligns with their cultural values, while also appealing to the social media trends.

And it's also in kind of the social media's popularity, this drive to highlight success online, it only leads to heightened stress and feelings of inadequacy. Yeah, exactly. I think that's a general problem, but even more so if you are not able to ever express yourself fully a hundred percent, because I know I'm.

pretty old, [00:05:30] so I was already well into my adulthood and before I had even a normal phone, I was pretty old by the time I got on social media. So I can't imagine being a digital native where I've heard many times that the online world and the offline world aren't really separated in the sense.

Because the online world, the digital world is simply a part of life, as where someone of [00:06:00] my generation, it's still, it's like the online world and offline world feel very separate. But for the digital natives, it's not like that. The online world is more of a reality. So that must be really difficult. Exactly.

And in many Indian households, the success is kind of closely tied to academic achievement, career ambitions, and social conformity. So it's like the social media bombards these teens and adolescents with images of, you know, [00:06:30] peer achievements, lifestyle, social experiences. So it creates a continuous comparison loop.

And this loop creates a constant pressure to perform in whatever domain you are doing or academically present a polished digital image of yourself. Are there any movements to kind of help them? So actually, um, right now there are some kind of NGOs, uh, and nonprofit organizations which are coming forward in [00:07:00] this domain to give impart education about digital literacy to kids, uh, children in their teens or adolescent age.

This is very important because they need to understand the pros and cons, the checks and balances associated with it. I wouldn't say that going online, presenting your achievements or showing your lifestyle is a bad thing. No, I mean, you have your social media to connect with people across the globe. So why [00:07:30] not convey our messages this way?

But of course, you need to strike a balance between What is good to show and what should not be shown. Exactly, yeah. Yes, so schools these days are imparting this kind of education or providing literacy on the same to students in their early days so that they can know how they can use the social media platforms with a sense of discretion.

I think it is important to start early. And one thing I'm thinking of and I've encountered a [00:08:00] few times is that If you start like that, teaching the younger generation, this is how you use social media responsibly and respectfully, then often if the adults are using social media, they're actually not doing what they're supposed to be doing.

And the younger generation will then be put in a position to actually teach the older generation how they should maybe be using social media, because there's whole, I mean, [00:08:30] generations of people who didn't get any kind of digital literacy, so they don't know. I remember when Facebook first came out, and there was a debate about this sharenting, about people were putting all the pictures of their kids online, whether it's good or bad.

There was this natural feeling. I thought this is probably not good, but I had no idea what the actual implications were. Now there are people who have their whole life documented on social [00:09:00] media. So there's actual proof of what happens, what can happen to a person if you do that, but the older generation doesn't have that.

Right. And you know, what happens with these social media platforms is that they are mainly their algorithms. are designed in a way to attract these younger audiences. But now if you see the shifting landscape, uh, you're in India, I've seen that now Facebook [00:09:30] is mostly used by people in their forties and fifties.

Whereas the younger generation is more inclined towards using Snapchat, Instagram, and those kind of platforms which have, you know, kind of short form content and a lot of other more facilities available rather than Facebook. So now the trend has shifted. Do you have the feeling that as an AI expert, it's something I always ask myself, these models were originally mostly trained in [00:10:00] California, somewhere, somewhere on the, on the West Coast of the U.S. with a lot of data, for example, from Americans. In a lot of different parts of the world I would logically imagine there's a lot of catch-up playing in terms of really getting the data to know the culture and the society. So I just wonder, do you think, or do you know, if these algorithms are maybe not as good at guessing what can [00:10:30] affect and, and speak to these, these adolescents?

It's a very good point that you make that because these algorithms are trained somewhere else in the world in the western region, um, somewhere in the U.S. or maybe the European Union. So the societal and cultural norms play a very important role. So now, now we know that the AI models work on the training data that is fed to them.

And the training data [00:11:00] and the results that are obtained is ultimately a reflection of data that is given as an input. So now, if we don't take these considerations of race, gender, ethnicity, while training this AI model, then the output will obviously be skewed. And if we adapt these models into the Indian system for deployment purposes, obviously we will not get the desired results.

I think since last one and a half to two years, there are a few startups in Southern India who are performing very good in [00:11:30] terms of producing their own large language models, tailored to Indian languages, custom-made for several Indian languages, so that it can be put into deployment even for the most common people of the society.

So that they don't have to, first of all, spend money on buying those models from other countries and, you know, It can be tailored based on requirements of people in India. I think that's a really, really important movement for so many reasons. Because one of the things [00:12:00] I'm worried about is kind of the assimilation of many cultures for various reasons into the American culture.

I am an American. I grew up in America. I left it around 30 years ago, and even 30 years ago I was pretty shocked about how much of the American culture was there even before internet. And, and now it's something that worries me a lot that a lot of these diversity is at risk of being lost. India [00:12:30] is such a powerful and big culture and what better place to have those kinds of initiatives and show, you know, we can create our own LLMs.

We can do things on our terms. And I just think that's so important. And the more these companies mature, then that's a voice because it's, I think it can be, as Bill Schmarzo always says, the great equalizer. Exactly. And as social [00:13:00] media platforms grow, like, they can play a role in promoting this diversity in beauty, success, and self-expression.

Like, by normalizing the diverse background and realistic portrayals. These platforms can help adolescents, like, feel comfortable presenting their authentic selves online. Exactly. And I really do want to I want to believe that this is a direction that we will all go in. I think that at some point we will, [00:13:30] because it's just a natural, more people will figure out how much their opinions and viewpoints are being kind of controlled by someone else's ideas of what's good and what's correct.

So I'm confident that maybe not these existing social media companies, but some will come along that really respect diversity and promote diversity. And those are exactly the kind of initiatives that can help that. Absolutely. And you know, what's another factor is this cultural emphasis [00:14:00] on being seen and maintaining connections can heighten this FOMO amongst the adolescents as they strive to keep up with both the social engagements and the online trends.

So missing out on social events or not participating in popular online trends can lead to a kind of feeling of alienating themselves or loneliness and it can also create tension within the household impacting their emotional well-being. Because in India, the system is that [00:14:30] family comes first. So everyone is pretty attached to each other within the family.

So if there's something wrong with one, the entire household is affected and things can go downstream. From your experience, what are the most effective things that can be done to kind of improve the situation if, for example, that the younger generation of a family gets a little bit too much sucked into the online world, and that's [00:15:00] affecting kind of the dynamics of the family. In your experience, what can be done effectively to help that?

So one of the first things is to teach critical thinking about media. and encourage healthy social media use like parents can foster the healthy habits by encouraging screen-free times discussing the purpose of social media and monitoring usage without being overly invasive. That is also one of the important things.

As a parent, you might [00:15:30] understand this better than I do, that you need to give them their own space while also maintaining that balance. I think so, and I keep thinking about that every time I think about how you keep kids safe online and a lot of the ways that it's done is just so invasive in terms of privacy.

I can't imagine a situation where my parents, when I was a teenager, knew exactly where I was going, where I was, who I was speaking to, what I was doing. That [00:16:00] would have been very difficult, and I would have probably looked for ways around it, as any teen would. So, yeah, that balance is, is really, really important to find.

And one thing I was thinking of, right now, as you were speaking, is that I also live now in Southern Italy, where the family is very important and has a, I would say a bigger weight than in other places that I've lived in terms of traditions of… family is important everywhere, but you know, it's just how much people are [00:16:30] together and how important these, these relationships are in maintaining.

And I think this is an advantage. It can be an advantage because these are things that are more and more getting lost. And adolescents who grow up their culture telling them that they have to weigh the traditions and the online world will actually be in a better position to be leaders, right? Because they will know how to find that balance where in other cultures, maybe it's [00:17:00] not, there's not that much pressure to have to find that balance.

And that's what I think when I think of the kids around here. Have you, uh, had that same experience? Right. Because as you mentioned that in, uh, the place where you live currently, family bears more importance. Similar is the case if you're in India. So, the parents and the family members who kind of model a balanced approach to social media can have a very positive influence on adolescence.

So [00:17:30] rather than only highlighting the achievements or things like that on social media, but also sharing authentic moments can help normalize the online personas, that you don't need to exaggerate or create a hype about something. Just state it as the fact is. So, the more authentic you are, the simpler it is.

Exactly. Thank you. And I think that's a, we could talk about this for such a long time, but I try to keep these episodes short. Thank [00:18:00] you so much for, for your time. I love every time we, we get to talk. I'm watching your work from a distance on LinkedIn and I just love how much energy you're putting into the digital world.

I appreciate it. And thank you for having me here today. Thank you. Bye.

Please let us know what you think about what we're talking about in this episode and the others. Check out more about us and subscribe at digi-dominoes.com. Thank you so much for listening. [00:18:30] I'd also like to thank our sponsor, Data Girl and Friends.

Their mission is to build awareness and foster critical thinking about AI online safety. privacy, and digital citizenship through fun, engaging, and informative content. Check them out at data-girl-and-friends.com. Until next time, stay curious and keep learning. Digital dominoes.