PJ Ellis (00:38)

Security, safety, leadership, community, grit. Today's guest has built a national business on all of the above. Ian McAllister, CEO of Man Commercial Protection joins us to talk about, I suppose, being calm under pressure, leading people, and what it takes to stay strong.

over 30 years in business. Good morning, sir. How are you, mate?

Iain McCallister (00:58)

Good morning both, hope you're well.

PJ Ellis (00:59)

Morning. Right, so let's get straight to it, mate. Leadership under pressure. I am more and more impressed when I understand more and more about you. So tell us a little bit about who he's in Macalester.

Iain McCallister (01:10)

Well, me myself, I'm CEO, Man & Commercial Protection Limited. we're based in Soliol, a national security provider. We've been trading now 32 years. the whole of the West Midlands, the biggest privately owned security company ever. But that's quite old news now. It's about 10 year old news. So what we're doing, we're just keeping moving forward with the business. We've got a big acquisition path currently underway.

It's all about the continued growth. we're a big supplier of people, big employer of people. As I said, we just keep moving forward.

PJ Ellis (01:42)

Yeah. So tell me then, I mean, 32 years in business doing anything is pretty impressive and I'm sure challenging. And I've seen the recent documentary about is a Netflix TV star now this bloke. I'll tell you, you must be under pressure one way or another at all times in that sort of business. How do you remain calm, mate? Because you're always pretty chill when I see you and meet you.

Iain McCallister (01:48)

Yeah. Yep.

Yeah,

well surrounding yourself with the best possible people. So your team and that can be all your people at head office, your people out on the ground, surrounding yourself and creating long-term working relationships. churn is very low, albeit there's been a few changes at head office this year, a couple of those through retirement.

But our senior leadership team, as I said, it's all about stability Last week at head office, did a post on LinkedIn, we had 22 there for our quarter to review meeting. So we're telling them about next year, what we're looking at, how we're moving forward and just keeping the team totally embraced.

Andy (02:41)

What are the plans like for next year then Ian? What's the ambition?

Iain McCallister (02:44)

Acquisition growth. did an interview two years ago with the Sunday Times where I talked about the 100 million turnover. So we've got to keep going with that, which is key. We currently have over 60 mil turnover with the growth that we're looking at with organic growth with our existing customers. We've got a sales team, writer, all based at head office. And then from our point of view with the acquisitions as well.

We've it clear for the last two years we've been on the acquisition trial, but it's getting a lot closer now.

Andy (03:13)

It's a tough gig, it, acquisitions? I guess it's one of those, you've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find the right princess.

Iain McCallister (03:16)

Yeah, yeah,

yeah. And people said to me when we first started, ⁓ it would be a challenge. And we've had two years where we've issued heads of terms and it hasn't quite happened. But from our point of view, we just keep marching forward. We've got all the due diligence set up. We've got a great, I deal with the third oldest bank in London, our Buffnot. They've been great working with them now for the last.

13 years, personal relationships with them. So from my point of view, plus with what we've grown as a business. So a head office, for instance, we bought and paid for our head office. So collectively, it's three offices, which 12 and a half thousand square foot, all bought, paid for. So we've got training academy, 24 hour control room. Every single department within our business is based at head office.

Andy (04:04)

So that sounds fantastic. And a lot of what we do when I have my Curium hat on involves a lot of M &A activities, a lot of our customers are buying, selling or being bought. And obviously that brings its own challenges around culture. are you worried about M &A?

PJ Ellis (04:05)

Nice.

Iain McCallister (04:21)

well the heart of our business is our people. So from our point of view, where other people have products, whenever the people are selling, ours is all about people. So the culture, we're multi award winning and a lot of the award winning over the last few years has been our teams, our management, our different guys out on the ground. We've even got guys next year, next week rather in London, transport safety officers for awards. So we do a lot with the culture. We do a hell of a lot with regards embracing the team.

working with a team. So from our point of view, it's slightly different with &A. We're so experienced in QP where we win contracts. So for instance, when we won the Amazon contract in 2019, we QP'd nearly 300 staff over. So with regards to QP, with regards embracing people and bringing them into our culture, after 32 years, we've done it a lot.

PJ Ellis (05:12)

You talk about 300 people cheaping over maybe for a contract. don't know. What's the head count like at the moment then,

Iain McCallister (05:18)

So currently with the training room, with the HR, with everything, there's probably 30, 35 based at head office. In total there's 1500 staff, but that's forever growing. And from our point of view, it will be keep moving forward, as I said. as I said, we're a big employer in the borough and we're a big employer in the West Midlands.

PJ Ellis (05:38)

We no doubt will come back to opportunity and that in a minute, but can I just go back a little bit and talk about just very quickly about how did this all start? How did you get into this?

Iain McCallister (05:47)

1982 I left school, didn't sit one exam, didn't do anything. I wasn't a big fan at school, I wasn't and I always say, to talk about it later as well, with academia for me anyway they teach you things like square root and Pythagoras but they don't teach you how to sell, they don't teach you how to open a bank account, they don't teach you how to set the business up. So from my point of view I was always waiting for three o'clock to get out the door.

So when I left school on the Friday, I started work on the Monday. and then when I got to 17, I started working on doors, doing security ended up with what was Birmingham's best nightclub liberties. I was there for four years. so working there. So when my dad retired from the police in 1992, after doing his 30 year service, my dad was like one of the old fashioned Sweeney cops. Like to drink, like the smoke and all that, getting the information in the pubs and that. And, he had a great.

send off from the police and he said to me we need to do something together so that's when we sat down in 1993 and just worked out and then set up man security which become man commercial protection and in since that till now we've worked in 33 different countries

Andy (06:53)

That's amazing. Just a question for you. So if you were sat in a room with your 26 year old self, and what would you say to them in order to guide them? And what do think they'd say to you about where you are today?

Iain McCallister (07:06)

Yeah, well, me personally, I always think we're only halfway up the ladder. So you never ever get that cigar moment where you think, ⁓ like I've hit the front and everything else. Cause it's all, it's like when you do a big show, I did a big show last Saturday at the co-op arena, the Saturday before I did a big show at the O2 arena in London. As soon as that show's done, you're thinking about the next one. So we're sitting, we're sat down, we're planning for shows next year. So you're always thinking, so you're always moving forward.

Yeah, listen, you're proud of what you've achieved so far, but it's nowhere near the finish. like, the one thing I always talk about is the discipline. So in the last 28 years, I've only had one day off sick. And that is just the discipline of keep moving forward and moving forward. People always say to me, what's the biggest risk to your business? And I say, we've already been through a pandemic.

Andy (07:55)

Yeah, and the world closes down. Would you worry about complacency, something you worry about, just struck by what you've said there about, go on the next, go on the next, go on the next.

PJ Ellis (07:56)

Yeah.

Iain McCallister (08:05)

You will complacency I think consistency is key. So the thing is people often think they can go off and could become the next Alan Sugar by opening numerous different businesses. For me, it's dig one hole and dig it deep. Stick to what you know. And the thing with that is like surround you about like my CFO has been with me 15 years, my senior leadership team, they've been with me long, long time.

Andy (08:21)

Love that.

Iain McCallister (08:31)

Now you put it all together and it becomes 100 years combined working. They all know exactly what I'm like. They all know exactly what I'm looking for. And as I said, once we get the acquisitions, I know what will happen. It'll be once we go to the market and say, yeah, we required XYZ, then it'll open the floodgates and there'll be more and we'll keep going forward. And that's how it is. But no, we'll never ever get complacent because as I said, you just keep moving forward.

PJ Ellis (08:56)

Dig one hole and dig it deep. I absolutely love that. There's your book title, mate.

Iain McCallister (08:57)

and dig it.

Yeah,

PJ Ellis (09:02)

When I tell my wife that, Ian, she'll say to me, that's something you should have done. Because she always says to me, you've got a million things going on, man. Dig one hole, dig it deep.

Andy (09:11)

It's

the opposite of the magpie effect, isn't it? The new shiny thing.

Iain McCallister (09:15)

say that about dig one hole, dig it deep, how many times have people come to you and they've opened their 10th business and the first nine have failed? Wasn't it Gordon Ramsay said that 85 % of new restaurants go bump in the first year?

Andy (09:27)

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting, isn't it? Because you go across, you look across America, and that's a badge of honor. Open, fail, open, fail, open, fail. It's kind of the opposite here. And you always think, where's the happy medium? Where's the right balance to arrive?

Iain McCallister (09:33)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

But you know

the one thing in the UK, and you get this in sport lot, people want you to do well. Until you do do well, then they don't like you.

PJ Ellis (09:48)

Yeah, it's, I think the, well, I think Aristotle once said, it's like farts. You love the smell of your own, but the hate the smell of others. I'm sure that's a quote from somewhere. On the face of things here, and you talk to you, lovely guy, sounds like everything's going swimmingly. I'm sure it hasn't always been like that. Is there any sort of moment in your career where you thought, God, it's all on the line? Or a moment where you feel it's really defined you as a leader?

Iain McCallister (10:14)

A couple of answers to that really. When COVID first happened in March 2020, we just supplied staff at the Cheltenham Festival and then they called that the super spreader. And then the following Friday, Boris shut the pubs and then all of a sudden it looked like the world was closing. And my biggest concern in them days was how are we going to get paid? Because if people are working from home, it turned out that it worked out better than that.

but because people were actually working from home and we got paid and all that was fine. But I met with my CFO on the first week of COVID and I said to her, I don't want any of buyback loans. I don't want any of that furlough as such. Our furlough bill was absolutely minimal, like bits, but the buyback loans, all of that, I didn't want it. And from our point of view, it was a concern for the first month. But what was really good for us, we'd got some young ones at work in head office like juniors and apprentices.

In their family, they were the only person working. The mum, the dad, the auntie, the uncle had all been furloughed. And for the younger ones, they carried on working. one of the big things for us, which has been great over the years, we've had so many young ones start with us as juniors and ended up as heads of department.

Andy (11:25)

Brilliant. you had, in terms of, I mean, the business growth is fantastic and you're obviously going to keep going. Are you one of those, we've got a vision, a five-year plan, we're going to execute it, or you're one of those, let's just keep being good at what we do and let's look for the opportunities.

Iain McCallister (11:40)

Yeah, I've got a big sign next door. It's been on LinkedIn and that the big sign said there is no end game. So I never ever think about the exit. Never ever think, just keep going and keep going. And as people know, I do a lot of work with Frank Warren. He's 72. He worked with Bob Aram. He's 94. They're still going. And at the end of the day, the top and tail of it, look at some of the really successful ones in the UK, even Sugar and all them guys, they're a good age.

If you enjoy what you're doing, just keep going.

PJ Ellis (12:09)

big advocate of that. I try and convince my wife that I know I've got to get a bit better balance, but when I do work, I enjoy it. know, I certainly, so, but how do you find that balance in? What is your downtime? What does it look like?

Iain McCallister (12:16)

Yeah.

Well, fortunately I've got a good family and from that point of view, that's great. Getting some holidays, but work's a big part of you. Listen, once you create a monster and like once you keep growing and growing and growing, you're setting yourself then target all the time and all the time and never ever two days look the same because you can walk in, you get opportunities, you're walking, your customers are growing, et cetera, et cetera.

Just working hard and also keeping close to your customers as well. The one thing I never ever want is one of those buckets where jobs come in the top and then you've got ones coming out the bottom. You want to keep them long-term relationships because they are your best salesmen.

Andy (12:59)

How do you do that, Ian? Because I presume you've known every one of these relationships as they've come over the last 30 odd years. How do you do that? What do you delegate? What do you decide to keep for yourself? What do you go after and lead on?

Iain McCallister (13:13)

Well, just make sure the key people keep close to the key people keep involved to the quarter review meetings keep close everyone on my contract managers any every one of my contract directors I speak to on a daily if not weekly basis find out what's going on, etc. Every single presentation for new business I try and do myself because if the CEO comes it shows like there's a massive commitment there.

and that can be from Scotland all the way down. We look after ⁓ Sunseeker down in Poole, RNLI in Poole, so the distance for us doesn't matter. We will continue to do what we've got to do.

PJ Ellis (13:49)

I'd love to find your secret mate one day off in however many

to box at a decent level, didn't you, I believe, or certainly stay fit. I mean, is that something that's important? Exercise?

Iain McCallister (13:56)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

absolutely. And also you're grounding as well. So when you box at a good level, young, uh, box locally, box across the country, then was doing sparring and that discipline and everything else at the end of the day makes it what you do in business. And I think you need to have that it's got to be in you. And when people talk about commitment and discipline and everything else, it has to be in you.

PJ Ellis (14:22)

Who put it in you? Do you think?

Iain McCallister (14:24)

Well, there's a good fact that in my whole family, my mom, my dad, my aunties, my uncles, cousins, relatives, I don't know one person that ever had a business. So it was kind of drilled into me. Nobody in my family had ever boxed. And from that point of view, it was just what's in you. And my big thing is always about growing, working hard, doing it right and creating good relationships.

And as I said, that's how it comes across and that's how we need it.

Andy (14:54)

As you've got a very close leadership team, just talked about how long you've all been together. Do you have lots of companies you'll walk into, there's lots of things written on the wall, or there'll be value statements, or it'll be key sets of winning behaviors that we all live and die by. Have you got some of those?

Iain McCallister (14:57)

Yeah.

Well, the heart of our business is our people and that's a big sign at head office and that's key really, working closely with people, understanding. And it always amazes me that you go to certain businesses or other providers and they're not on LinkedIn or they haven't got a good social media presence or they don't like to be in front of a camera. At the end of the day, how are ever going to grow their business? How are they ever going to get out there?

So from my point of view, it's working hard on this side, doing all the PR, but also as well working hard on a daily basis, keeping your team so everyone knows what's going on. So from our point of view, there's no shocks with the acquisitions, there's no shocks with the growth, there's no shocks of how hard we work, because that's what we do.

Andy (15:55)

I'm curious Ian, how do you do that? You've got lots of people, 1500 or whatever it is, you're the top of the Britain and the bottom of Britain, you're East, you're all over the world. Communication is something lots of businesses struggle with. Any golden nuggets as to how people can do that better?

Iain McCallister (16:08)

It has to

cascaded where the senior people buy into it. So from our point of view, I'm working closely with them on a daily basis. They understand what the values of the business are. USP has always been that we're a quick decision-making cycle. If it comes to me, yes or no. And at the end of the we've took on jobs in the past where you've got an officer working and they have to get five people to sign off, whether he can have a white shirt or not.

At the end of the day, to phone call to me, yeah, done, them three shirts. That's the difference. there's plenty, plenty of times where we come up against companies that have too much middle management who don't do enough. At the end of the day, have less of those and pay them more.

Andy (16:52)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, love that.

PJ Ellis (16:56)

Yeah, you got your jobs, ⁓

Iain McCallister (16:58)

You couldn't set

the play code?

PJ Ellis (17:00)

You'd be surprised. You know, I'm with you there, mate. I had a very small business and we were massively bloated when it came to those decision-making roles and all that. It was a nightmare. Yeah.

Iain McCallister (17:07)

Yeah, I'll it all the time. I'll say it all the time.

And procurement has become massive in business now. With the procurement teams, one minute they can be talking about security, next thing they're talking about cleaning, the next thing they're talking about office stationary. They don't buy into the values and the culture. They're looking at a race to the bottom.

Andy (17:26)

So I guess one of the things that interested me in when we, knew you were coming on is obviously the security sector, know, conjured up images of, know, chucking people out, doorman on Broad Street. And I know it's very different to that and you're across a whole range of, of sectors. So what, what's, what's the reality of the business sector you work in? What, what's it like and how has it developed over the years?

Iain McCallister (17:34)

Yep.

Yeah.

So 17 years ago, government brought out a scheme called the SIA, Security Industry Authority, and that was to regulate and license people that had to pass the training, also had to pass the CRB checks to make sure that they were fit and proper to be able to do the

we've got meetings week after next about becoming the first security company in the UK to be British Standard or AI.

Andy (18:14)

Wow.

PJ Ellis (18:15)

Wow, it's amazing. And what does that actually look like then? Obviously, you've got to keep up with that technology. How have you implemented that technology into your business, Ian?

Iain McCallister (18:23)

So we've got what we call e-guards, are basically, they look like Daleks, which are out on sites. Yeah, they come back to our head office. And it's quite good really, because whoever designed it for us, we work closely with them. And we've been able to put a bit of fun into it as well when we do demonstrations to potential customers, it does a little Liam Neeson voice.

But that in itself, so technology, more cameras, we're working very, close with technology. But from our point of view, the man guarding the site is still growing, working alongside the tech.

Andy (18:59)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (18:59)

Yeah, I love one of those. An e-guard that says, I will find you and I will kill you. I love that, man. I love it. I love it.

Iain McCallister (19:03)

Yes, a special set of skills.

Andy (19:08)

And how do

you see AI, cybersecurity, all those kind of developments both impacting but increasing the types of risks you need to guard against?

Iain McCallister (19:17)

Well, interesting enough, I've done a couple of Radio 5 Live waking up to money. And the first one I did was straight after Marks and Spencer's had had their cyber attack. And then obviously, JLR had had theirs this year. So it's massive with regards to the concerns with cyber security. So I think all of that will continue. think the fraudsters will keep trying and the cyber security guys will keep trying to make it harder for them.

With regards to AI, you see more and more coming in. I know some of the big companies are talking about reducing staff and getting more robots, et cetera. But I think the key to it is it's just keeping up. If you ignore it, like many, years ago, people ignored the website and people ignored the internet. They just thought it would never happen. I think you've got to embrace it and work closely with it.

Andy (20:08)

I mean, is it a big investment

area? I read something over the weekend about Rightmove, know, the online housing agency issued a bit of a profits warning last week because they said, instead of paying out a couple of dividends, we're going to put 10 million quid into AI as an investment next year, which is, you know, that's a longer term bet and probably the right thing to do. Is it a big area of, you know, what are your big investment areas? I understand people and training, but is that one of them?

Iain McCallister (20:23)

See you later.

Yeah, well definitely with tech we've invested over the last two years we've done a hell of a lot more with tech than we had for the first 30 years. And yeah, just understanding it more and embracing it more and from our point of view we're having a dashboard designed which is going to be just for us, for our staff to use out in the ground, management. We've invested heavily at head office. Two of the big things for us, we've invested heavily in our people, we've invested heavily in our property at head office.

PJ Ellis (21:01)

You say you've invested in people and you are big on LinkedIn. I love your LinkedIn to be fair. I saw one recently. I think you'd just taken on two hires, you know, in front of that there is only one man sort of sign. When they come into your business, it's an attractive proposition, all this growth and the culture and the punching bag and all that. The office looks amazing.

Iain McCallister (21:09)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (21:19)

What sort of behaviors do you...

reward and celebrate internally, would you say? What you're saying to them, if you do this, we'll do that.

Iain McCallister (21:26)

their growth, you see. So over the years, a lot of people have started us as low ranking and being able to grow. So both of those contract managers and contract directors are about their growth and how far they can move within the business. And that's been key. I've had so many different staff over the years, as I said, that have grown and moved on and moved on. The girl that's head of finance for me now, three, four years ago, she was probably third in line.

She's now running the department. So all my finance team, one of them per day goes out to college to go to the next level. We fund that. And from our point of view, it's growing with them. So it's always about the growth and the development of the individuals and how far they can move forward.

Andy (22:11)

That's great. am just going back to a point you mentioned about the curriculum a while ago when you were at school and you know, it didn't resonate with you. And I found out my son's similar. He's just about to finish school and it'd be good when he's out, but he's, you know, he's not enjoyed it that much. But he told me the other day, oh dear dad, he's 18 now. I've just set up me one-to-one trading platform, trading some shares. I've got an ISA and I'm building me credit rating. more important to him.

than doing exams. But when I said, I said to them both, I was hoping to chat again to you today. And I shared a little bit of some of what I think the customers you've got, about the Royal Family, Royal Events, and obviously the boxing. And they said two things. They said, can you ask him, what's it like running those sorts of things? But also, how does he, how did he get into those things?

Iain McCallister (22:48)

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, with the boxing, I said earlier, 1997 started working with Frank. So we've worked from 1997 all the way through to today, Frank Warren and Queensbury Promotion. So from that point of view, worked with all the fighters, Joe Coles, Aggie, Bruner, Ricky Attenall, all the way through to the modern ones, Tyson Puri, even Mike Tyson, all the way through. The Royal Ones, that came through a big security company in London that we worked closely with, we do a lot of their events.

We had three Royals, had the Jubilee, then we had the Queen's funeral, then we had the King's coronation. For the last 10 years we've supplied security at the finishing line for the London Marathon. Next year we've got some big shows coming up, all different. But it's after 32 years you build up personal relationships with people that trust you. So I've had guys come and see me this year talking about next year.

doing some shows that will be some real big shows to be fair.

Andy (23:54)

Yeah, I think last time we tried to talk, one of the quotes, one of the quotes I've seen you talk about is trust is the most important thing.

Iain McCallister (24:00)

It is, listen, if you haven't got people's trust, at the end of the day, certainly in business, certainly in security, you're wasting your time, aren't you? Because the top and tail of it, If you go and say you're going to do this, you're going to do that, at the end of the day, you've got to deliver.

Andy (24:12)

Yeah, and how, you know, we again, work with a lot of companies, a lot of companies talk about net promoter scores, you know, customers gave us a 10 out of 10. How do you, how do you judge success?

Iain McCallister (24:23)

most of our corporate clients, have KPI meetings

at least monthly KPIs. So the first part of that KPI meeting is talking about the previous but I know numerous of our clients where we're doing weekly KPIs so that way then an issue if they're not happy with something that can be resolved and then it's not spoken about. I remember Alan Sugar always said never pick up the same piece of paper twice.

Andy (24:47)

No doubt. And what would be on your KPI dashboard Ian, typically?

Iain McCallister (24:51)

It will be about hours delivered. It will be about performance on site, about doing the job. Because what happens with security a lot of the time, you are directors of the first impression. So if you turn up and get your park to look after you, high vis goes through all your inductions, at the end of the day, that's a great start to the meeting.

If you turn up and he's a bit grumpy and he doesn't get off to the right foot in the park, you're in the wrong place, your meeting is soured.

Andy (25:18)

Yeah, I love that phrase, director of first impressions. Yeah.

parking guys at the events and stuff you go to, you're absolutely right. If they're bit miserable or don't engage with or aren't polite or dismissive, you go, why have I come here?

Iain McCallister (25:32)

Yeah, but that's why I always think when you go out now in hospitality, you go for dinner, it's very rare that you get good service. So when you get good service, you're happy to tip, but you're actually surprised because you get good service.

Andy (25:44)

Yeah.

PJ Ellis (25:44)

You bang on there, mate. How are you constantly learning, Ian? Do you read? Have you got mentors?

Iain McCallister (25:49)

I haven't got mentors myself, you know, what I do do though, I've always, always keep up to date with public affairs, obviously try and catch the news every day, listen to the radio, but also as well, certainly in my industry and my sector and everything else, keep up to date with you. So yesterday I was on 8.30 in the morning, part of the top 30 security companies in the UK being asked for our input. I've been invited previously.

As it goes back to that thing about that one dig, dig one hole and dig a deep, stick to one thing. I don't try and go into cleaning, don't try and get into facilities management. We just stick to what we know best.

Andy (26:28)

Yeah. Yeah. So what what keeps you awake at night?

Iain McCallister (26:31)

very little to be honest. It's about being focused and just keep going and I'm very very interested in the next really and I'm confident in what we do.

At the end of the day, and another thing with social media, I'm always confident when we post something that it's the truth, because I see sometimes whether it's competitors, and you think to yourself, I'm not quite sure that's right, and at the end of the day, that's for them to post, but from our point of view, everything that we post, as I said, is right.

PJ Ellis (27:01)

And that's where you build the trust, isn't it? You know, in truth. I'm a dad, young boy, 14. I think you'd be brilliant in a business like yours, if I'm honest. Really fascinated and interested and impressed by the academy stuff that you do. Tens of thousands of people you've employed. During those years, have you seen something that's getting worse, Are skills lacking when people come into the workforce? Are you seeing more of this, less of that?

Iain McCallister (27:03)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

sometimes that some of the younger ones now write like that text. So the words are different. over the last few years, certainly with some of the younger ones anyway, they don't look you in the eye, they don't give you a firm handshake, they don't answer the question, they're constantly staring at the phones. Their whole life becomes around the phone.

people get hung up, they haven't had enough likes on Instagram and they get all these things which really is rubbish isn't it? At the end of the day the fundamentals are that you've just got to work hard and if you can work hard and get the discipline and enjoy what you do you've got half a chance.

PJ Ellis (28:04)

How do you do that? I think you're quite an inspiring character and think an afternoon with Ian McAllister, you should do those round tables mate or an evening with Ian McAllister.

Iain McCallister (28:14)

Yeah, we've them.

We've done them and we did, I did what they call it, the start of the year with Nindajahal was an actor dinner talk to 600 people. That was at the King Power Stadium at Leicester City. Doing one in a couple of weeks at the Belfry. yeah, you've got your day job to run. Anything else with regards, being asked to get involved with Neds and all that. But listen, this business takes up 99 % of my life. And the thing is,

PJ Ellis (28:26)

My son.

Iain McCallister (28:41)

You never like, even if in the last 12 months we've been involved with Solio Moors, which has been great as well, sponsored one of their big stands at the end of the day. The key to it is it always comes back to the work.

PJ Ellis (28:54)

I was just, what would you say then you got a kid coming into an industry that offers so much around culture, travel, experience, whatever it might be, and you've got a kid that you spot a talent in, but he's a bit nervous, he's a bit shy, he's socially awkward. What would man do in that academy to help them on that journey?

Iain McCallister (29:03)

Yeah.

We've had that with confidence. I've seen numerous kids start, certainly on events who have started as a steward. They've been the youngest one. And I've seen them be able to work their way up and giving them a little, little things like giving them a radio, little things like putting them in charge of two people. Then all of sudden you realize in two years time, they're running an area. And then it's just that experience. Working closely with them and telling them that when we run big shows like Wembley Stadium or

PJ Ellis (29:36)

basis.

Iain McCallister (29:41)

some of the big, big shows that we've done in the past, we've been able to have people running certain areas and some of those have been ones, two or three years before that would have been like young stewards. And from that point of view, that progression and getting people, I've got numerous people that I rely on, certainly on large events, have been with us for many years, but under them, they have numerous people that have had good experience as well.

Andy (30:05)

I can sense how important culture is kind of in your business saying, because obviously the people so important. What happens when people get things wrong? What happens when they mess up?

Iain McCallister (30:12)

Yeah.

Well, the reason in our head office anyway, the biggest department we've got is HR. So from our point of view, it's all dealt with properly. It's all dealt with, as I said, all of our people at PAYE, they all go through the HR, the disciplinary. And from our point of view, it's just dealt with. So that's the one side. And then the other side,

For the last 15 years on our website we've had employee of the month and we also do employee of the year, we also do rewarding. So in a couple of weeks we'll do a big raffle and that'll have iPhones etc. all for the staff. So there's the one side which is the negativity and then with everything we come back to the positivity.

where at the end of the day there's great opportunities and as I said a lot of the time if they haven't made a mistake depending on what the mistake is they go through HR, they learn a lesson, then we move on.

PJ Ellis (31:07)

Yeah, man. So you wake up in the morning, you've had a positive day, but you just for whatever reason, feel a bit naff. What do you do? What does Ian McAllister do?

Iain McCallister (31:16)

You

just gotta get on with it. Listen, everyone's had tough times, whether it's personal or whether it's with your work or with things or you've got to stay focused and at the end of the day, it's just one of them. It's got to be in you, as I said, in your focus and the drive and everything. You can't have a business like this and then moan about you don't get enough time because there are plenty of positives.

And there are plenty of opportunities. as I said, I'd be very easy to be sat here now and say, yeah, yeah, we've done 60 million and everyone's happy, blah, blah. I can't do that. I've got to go again.

Andy (31:51)

I get the sense you are absolutely all over it. Last question from Ian, I'm respectful of your time. It's been very generous. Obviously there's a budget in two weeks today, think. And there's a danger of self-fulfilling prophecy of a doom loop that everyone's going to get sucked into. I sense that won't be you. So what advice would you give to CEOs and businesses who...

Iain McCallister (31:54)

Yeah.

not going to do that.

Yay.

Andy (32:16)

listening to this. When times are going to be hard, what do do?

Iain McCallister (32:19)

Yeah, two answers really. In 2009 when I bought my first office, that was a recession. Covid was obviously a big negative. So there's been loads of negatives. My big concern with this budget is the amount of things that have been leaked, which make it sound like it might be true. I really think certainly with this government so far they've got it so so wrong. It's like they're anti-business.

and the thing which is key, will the tax hikes and the pensions etc. It's all negativity really so that is a concern but it's controlling the controllables. At the end of the day what's going on with the government etc. What will be will be. I'm just hoping that she doesn't tax hike like they think she might because at the end of the day

Last April was a big hike for us and as I said with National Insurance being a big employer like we are, it's a big thing.

Andy (33:14)

Yeah, yeah, great.

PJ Ellis (33:16)

Thank you Ian. Yeah, we're conscious of your time, man. We're grateful for it as well. But my takeaways, We're only halfway up the ladder.

Iain McCallister (33:20)

Yes.

PJ Ellis (33:23)

Discipline

is so important. Consistency is the same. Dig one hole, dig it deep. Everyone needs a director of first impressions. Be a quick decision-making cycle. Never pick up the same piece of paper twice. Everyone needs an e-guard. Trust is the most important thing. We could go on all day, mate. It's been genuinely...

Iain McCallister (33:41)

Two that you haven't

There is no end game.

And my favourite one, Winners win.

Andy (33:46)

Hey, I like that one. Yeah, win is win.

Iain McCallister (33:48)

That's it.

PJ Ellis (33:49)

Winners win. There is no end game. Trust is the most important. The one here is just get on with it. Press go.

Iain McCallister (33:56)

Absolutely.

Listen, you've got to get on with it and you've got to make sure no two days are the same. You've to get on with it.