Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean, and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints

of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, examining

power structures, and sharing the success stories from the grassroots. Through these discussions,

we hope to provide folks with the tools and the inspiration they need to start to dismantle

capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring about the political revolution that we know

we need. Indigenous people are quite literally on the front lines of the fight for climate

justice. They've been battling resource extraction industries and dealing with those harmful impacts

for decades now. Those industries they're up against like logging, mining, and of course

oil and gas have been forever backed by the federal and provincial governments. They also

enjoy unchecked protection from Canadian police. The coastal gas link through Wet'suwet'sen

territory is a prime example of this. The RCMP have been notoriously violent against land

offenders there. But it's not the only pipeline being pushed through unceded indigenous territory

by the governing BCNDP. The Prince Rupert gas transmission pipeline, if built, would transport

liquefied natural gas, LNG, 800 kilometers across 1,000 different waterways. Its approval

is based on an inadequate, outdated environmental assessment and the youth of the Gitsan Nation

are not having it. Inspired by the blockades put in place to halt the project and calls

for more involvement, young Indigenous people like Drew are stepping into roles they never

imagined themselves in but are fully prepared for and thriving at, organizing their communities,

giving voice to a generation that wasn't included in the decision. to put the PRGT through their

lands, but who will have to deal with its repercussions the most. Listen in as Drew takes us through

her journey into activism and how she's working with other youth to preserve their communities,

their culture, and protect all our water. Hati, thank you for having me. Saiz Wazay, Drew Harris.

I'm a proud member of the Witsoaten and Gitsan Nations. I'm from the Small Frog Clan, Lexiliu,

and I'm from the House of Many Eyes. I'm born and raised on Gitsan territory in the Hazeltons.

I'm a dedicated advocate for Indigenous rights and environmental protection. My journey started

as a summer intern last year with the Skeena Watershed Conservation Coalition. I'm now the

lead organizer in leadership, support and development. So I get to work closely with youth, community

leaders and other amazing people. I met along the way to safeguard our territories from industrial

exploitation and including my newly formed youth group called the Fire Keepers. Oh, we'll have

to talk about the Fire Keepers. Yeah. They were in my notes. Excellent. Yeah. And yeah, I was

away here in school for the last six years. So I haven't been in my communities only in

the summertime. So during the CGL raid in 2021, I was away from home and I felt really hopeless.

watching all of that through my phone. So now this time that I'm home and my Get Set aside

is facing the same industry and battle, I wanted to make sure I did my part. So I really only

started my activism and land protection last May when I returned home. Like I'm chuckling

because if you look up Drew's name and check the show notes for, you know, the work being

done here. I think you'll understand why it seems like I had a seasoned vet in the studio,

you know, done a lot of work in that time. And you, before we started recording, you

talked about that the learning curve that must be there. That is amazing. I'm curious to hear

more about that journey as well and how you've been able to just like step in to that role

to mobilize your community. Yeah, it's really interesting. My life definitely. took a change

last year when I moved home in Maine, took this job at the Skeena watershed. I was like

super shy, kept to myself, didn't really talk about politics because I was scared. then I

came home and I saw all this stuff happening and I was like really anxious in the state

of the world. And I was like, I need something to do than just be anxious and like worried.

And it was like this job just landed right in front of me and came to me and it felt like

the world was aligning us. And that's how it started. And it opened my eyes up to all the

stuff that was happening on my own territory that I wasn't even aware of. Yeah, I felt like

it was my cultural responsibility to carry on what our ancestors have been doing. And

it just came so naturally to me. Like, I feel like this is what I was meant to do. And in

the last year, everything has shaped and like really solidified that for me. I'm learning

as I go in this PRGT. Pipeline is like a huge confusing web. So every day I'm still learning

more things. So also I want to tell people like, don't be scared to start because I thought

I couldn't really make a difference or impact. And I would just keep surprising myself along

with others. And it's really easy to get into this field with the amazing support you have

as well from everyone. Without having. to make you do that heavy lifting all over again, because

there will be resources in the show notes. But can you share some of your knowledge of what's

happening on your lands there that spurred you to action? Yeah, so in 2014, I believe,

there was an agreement signed by about 15 or so hereditary leaders in the Gitsan territory

for this PRGT agreement. Members of the house groups were not consulted or informed before

any agreements were made. So these were lots of behind closed door agreements. And even

now we still don't know what was made on those agreements or what amounts the individuals

have received from those agreements. And it was based on an environmental assessment done

in 2010 even. So, you know, when you say 2014, that's the agreement date, but you know, their

assessments Yeah, we've learned a lot since then. We have we not I thought that was one

of the most interesting part in the way that it's being challenged is has that generational

discussion within it, right? Not just that outdated technology, which I think we could

all agree on, but that the folks that will be most likely impacted from it had no say as

well. Right. So that time that had gone on since the time of the agreement until now, you're

talking about 15 years from the assessment. And just to go at this fight from the perspective

of youth and then to have a youth talk about it saying, you know, we weren't consulted,

even we know better now, you know, than the 15 folks that might have signed that way back

when, right? So do you want to talk about choosing that path and then obviously having youth do

a lot of the lifting too? Yeah. Yeah, that's a big problem that we've been struggling

with. And even now, 15 years later, some of those chiefs that signed also don't agree anymore

and don't want this project to go through. And also lots of the title holders that signed

on passed away. So they carried their signature onto the next person that takes the name.

So now they're stuck in a legally binding agreement. And it's just, yeah, it's really crazy. Yeah,

the youth started realizing like, weren't we involved in any of these conversations? And

lots of the assessment that is done on over 15 years ago, like on the water sources. 15

years later, our waters are drying up. Like, we don't have the same creeks in water that

we used to have when they made this decision to use all our water sources to like, work

this project. Like the amount of water that they need to run these projects is insane.

and they're planning to use all our freshwater creeks. And just last summer was the first

time that the Kispyaks River ever had to shut down to recreational fishing because of the

low water and high water temperatures that we were experiencing, which was unprecedented.

So we're seeing these changes coming really fast in our rivers and they're affecting

our salmon already. Like our salmon are already struggling. So, bring it in projects like

this would just be detrimental to the salmon and we're already really close to losing them.

And a lot of people don't know that. Well, am I safe to say the majority of the community

that's there now with these tangible effects already in play, right? Like affecting their

livelihoods and their culture, are they mostly against this? Right? Is it obvious that this

pipeline will be a disaster for them. Yeah, that's the struggle we're seeing now and why

we started our youth group. We really just want to bring awareness to our community members

because lots of people don't know the state of our rivers and our salmon. So they don't

understand the risk that this is bringing to our livelihood. And another problem with Indigenous

communities that were left in poverty a lot. designed by the system to put us here and keep

us in poverty, to keep us hooked on resource extraction, which is where these projects

get their say and they promise jobs and economic stability, all these big promises that have

to do with money, which really overweighs people's decisions because when you can't put food

on the table or pay for your roof. It makes it hard to turn down projects like these that

are promising you to take care of your family, basically. Well, I was going to ask about people's

mood, and I guess that's where I'm going because I understand your frustration of having to

explain all of this over and over again, like the situation or the technical aspects or the

ownership and the legal mishmash that goes on in addressing this when it just seems so obvious.

you hate being stuck in that stage because action is what's needed, right? And you kind

of got to get people to that point. That's not to say that you folks haven't taken any action.

I do want to talk about the community town halls, but also the blockades. So clearly some folks

are, you know, they're done talking about it. I mean, I'm sure they're still talking

about it. That's always part of the work. there's blockades. Are they still ongoing? Our youth

group hasn't done any blockades or anything, but the Gittin' Out Harder Territory Chiefs

have set up a roadblock to monitor and prevent the LNG workers from accessing their territory.

So they started that last fall once they announced that they're going to try to start construction.

And I think around November they ended the construction for the winter, so they got to

go and rest for a bit. But now we're starting up again, now that we're waiting for this

environmental assessment decision of if it counts, if it gets extended or not. So there's organizing

and preparing and we're just waiting for the decision of the government now before we can

take action. There's another couple camps that I've been. supporting and involving. There's

a new one, a SOF, and it's a new dog sanctuary out on the Kisbyaks Valley. Our good friend,

Theresa Brown, has been living out there since last fall. And it's about two-hour drive in

the middle of nowhere. No service or anything. But she's been in there taking care of puppies.

I have a puppy now from there. When you say a dog camp, though, does it serve as a blockade

of sorts? barrier to further development? It's near the pipeline right away and it's

on her house territory. So she's just living on her territory again. She's just exercising

her rights. She's just living her life, but she just happens to be in the way of perhaps

some work. And res dog, she's saving the rest dogs. So it's really fun out there too. Yeah,

it's hitting multiple targets. We can take care of a bunch of things at once. But let's

hear about what the youth are kind of focused on doing as their plan of action. Not that

you're a homogenous group, but you have had discussions, you managed to hold some community

halls and from reports, like hundreds of people attend them. So folks are willing to listen

to youth. It's really great. The support in the last few months has been amazing and there's

definitely been a shift in our energy that I've been feeling. Because when I first came back

last summer, there was community meetings being held. One of our members, Cullen Sutherland-Wilson,

he does lots of work too. He helped out the Witsowton and the CGL. He was in Victoria at

that time, but he's done lots of great land defense work. He was hosting meetings like

every month or so, and we would have discussions for hours and hours about how we don't want

this pipeline. Everyone was very adamant that we didn't want this pipeline, but the conversation

would just kind of go in circles and we wouldn't really get anywhere. And there was just lots

of like anger, which is fair. Like we're mad. We didn't sign up for this project, but here

it is being forced into our territory. So the youth were talking and we're like, I remember

specifically at one meeting I was there and one of my coworkers was there and he got up

to speak after everyone was all the elders and some of us were speaking. came up and he's

like, why isn't there many young people out here? This is our future that they're talking

about and making decisions. And there's no youth up here talking. So I decided I should

come up here and say something as a youth. And I remember when he said that it sparked

something in me and I was like, he's so right. Like, why, why am I just sitting here listening

to everyone else make decisions about my future when I'll be the one living through it all

and cleaning up the mess? That really sparked something in me. And then at the end of the

summer, Simo gets, Valen told us, me and my cousin, she was my intern with me in the summer

too. Voluntold. Yeah, voluntold. we're like, this is what you do. We had a week to plan

a meeting. So we got together and hosted at the community hall. And we had an amazing turnout.

We had over 300 people show up in person and then over 100 people were live stream watching

online. Good for you for making sure, you know, to hold a hybrid there because I imagine folks,

a lot of folks live remote, lots of Northern communities, not just Indigenous communities.

That is a real struggle and connecting people is like trying to get them just in one place

for a meeting. Like forget having the time, you need the money to travel too, right? The

gas money, if nothing else. But how did that meeting differ from, you know, your other experiences

of talking perhaps in circles? Although, you know, needed discussions. How did we move it

forward? Yeah, so this one we really wanted to focus in. on being informational, the impacts,

the different impacts that this pipeline would have to give a full picture because the industry

doesn't paint the full picture ever. We had some salmon biologists come in, which are

also part of the youth group, my cousin, and she did a presentation on the current salmon

state in our area and the impacts that this project will have on all the different crossings

and species. Tens as a doctor and she's part of a group that are trying to get support to

stop the LNG development because of all the health risks. So there's doctors that are signing

on being like, these projects bring in so much health risk. We are not going to work in the

communities that they bring them in because it's too dangerous. So she did a video for

us to explain all the short-term health impacts and the long-term health impacts of the LNG

industry from being in your house, having oil and gas fuel in your house to the effects

of shipping and exporting and everything. And then we also had an update just to break down

what the PRGT is, who owns it, all the different confusing complexities that it comes with that

most people don't understand. And then we also got youth at the end and we had some Samogits

from neighboring nations that are also fighting industry. We had some folks from Shimshan.

Different extraction industries even. Same on same projects, the pipeline industry. But yeah,

they came and spoke about their, their fights against industry. And yeah, it was just a really

empowering, uniting moment of everyone coming together from all these different nations.

From like Prince of Brut, Gittin' Yo, Smithers. Yeah, it was just a really heartwarming experience.

And then at the end, we got all the youth to come up. And at first we only had two youth

who would talk. We were trying so hard to get speakers and they're all like, no. By the

end of that event, we had about like 30 youth come and stand at the top and about eight

speakers come up and share why they care about the Lek'yip, which is our word for territory,

Gitsan territory. So they came and shared why they care about the Lek'yip and why they want

to protect it and why we shouldn't let this pipeline come through. It was just really inspiring

and it was, you could feel a shift in the room with everybody and like it went from being

really depressing and like, damn, what are we going to do about this? To like, we're going

to do this. Yeah, I think seeing youth step forward, you know, answer the call in that

way is going to do that to folks. you folks carry with you a certain type of energy, obviously,

not that just comes with youth, but also you it's just a generational perspective. You're

starting from a different point than anybody else was. You seem to be ready to hit the

ground running. So impressive to get that kind of turnout with a week's planning. Like as

an organizer, let me tell you, like just cross your fingers sometimes. I mean, you work, you

do the things that you need to do, but in the end, you just like hope people come. And to

have hundreds of people not just come, but like engage in meaningful ways is like just a...

An attestment to you probably are a natural at this, you know, you may have not expected

this of your future, but I imagine the movement is happy that you're there. These are some

incredible results. hear you when, you know, you had to kind of pull yourself up there

or be called up on stage, but like, don't knock yourself for that. I mean, we're taught to

follow our elders to kind of. our leaders look and talk a certain way. It's just ingrained

into us. And so there's a little unlearning that we need to do. there's lots of circles

where we're not including youth nearly enough. you're giving us plenty of reasons to examine

that as well. Not just against pipelines, the environmental movement, but a lot, a lot of

work kind of, but sometimes it's hard to bridge that generational gap. Do you have any tips

on how to draw multiple generations to one discussion and constructively too, right? There's

communication barriers that exist. Yeah, I don't know. We, for our event, we really wanted to

also emphasize the respect and having an open conversation. So we, at the beginning of

our event, we had it translated in GitSend. to share what our goals were and how everyone

should be respected and have a chance to speak if they want to and all that. So I think that

really set the tone for everything and people are just so impressed with that and just bringing

in that understanding that we need to have respect for everybody and be open to new ideas really

changed the mood because I think people were just stuck in like this negative way of thinking

and then just bringing in like a refreshing new perspective just opened everything up.

so much better. you talk a bit more about the Fire Keepers making something out of that?

know, what are you up to? Yeah, so that was the meeting we had was the first time our group

came together. We were just came on the whim and we named ourselves the Youth of the Gitsen,

you coming up with like, are our plans? What do we want? from this youth group and then

it just turned into like this huge thing of, wasn't just about land protection and stopping

the PRGT pipeline, it was about language revitalization, culture, bringing back traditional practices,

getting kids out on the land, building capacity. It just turned into this huge thing that the

youth wanted and it was really inspiring and really like heartwarming to see that this is

what all the young people want. We want all our culture back. We want our language. We

want to learn our language. And it was so inspiring to have that because I felt like before as

a young person, other people didn't really care about these things. And it's just like kind

of a thing. You get told, I guess, through society that we don't care about stuff. But I'm like,

actually, we do care about stuff. And it's really adamant and shows in our meetings that the

young people do care and they want better. and they want different than what's been happening.

I started some public speaking around just like our community and what we're facing. So I

started bringing more awareness and then people started reaching out to help us grow as a group.

now in our now full, our full society and we're getting some funding set up now. We're

going to be doing lots of collaborations in this, in the summer and spring. We're doing

lots of training and building up capacity so that we can have our own youth taking assessments

of our territory and land. So we have our own baseline assessments to use when industry comes

and tells us that there is no impacts. You have an answer ready for them. Yeah. You've

got receipts. Yeah. It's awful. Yeah, that folks often have to do a lot of these, work

themselves, providing the proof that is likely already there in industry's hands, just not

available. to you, it's with most of the players, the power players, or I should use quotations,

power, because we have the power, but they know exactly what's going on. It's not them

that you're trying to educate. I came across your name through a change course email, know,

inviting me to a webinar that I unfortunately missed, but I can only imagine, you you shared

a lot of this with them and maybe in greater detail, but I'm wondering, from talking to

people and going around and doing this public speaking, are you learning anything other than

public speaking skills, which you are doing a great job at? But I mean, about your allies,

about other organizations maybe doing this work or just the general public, like now that

you're talking beyond your community. Yeah, I've been learning so much and it's been awesome

from all the support I've been getting. We've been getting emails from so many different

organizations and youth groups that are wanting to help. So Changecourse has been one of the

awesome ones and they've been helping us out a lot with getting our awareness out there

and supporting our voice and uplifting our voice. yeah, doing these webinars has also taught

me to learn about the other side of the country's problems too. I'm like, I didn't know anything

that's been going on in Ontario. those pipelines either. So I'm like, it's helped me bring awareness

to the other fights that people are having. But it also brings like us together in a collective,

like we're all doing this for the better. And we're all part of a fight. We just have different

fights that we're fighting. You can be overwhelming, right? Trying to keep track of just what's

happening in your backyard and then finding out that Oh man, you folks are dealing with

this too. But on the flip side, it's like, okay, well then what have you learned? Right? Like,

can we just learn from each other's mistakes and lifting each other up is, an obvious one.

But yeah, sometimes it's also comforting to know that you're not the only community who's

trying to navigate all these relationships between the province and banks and the energy

industry and It's really unfair, unfortunately, that folks, indigenous folks have to even navigate

that while a company that is unwanted enters their land and develops on it. mean, the restraint,

people, the restraint people have shown, indigenous people have shown, think, like, doesn't get

spoken of a lot. Like, people like to shit on blockades or more direct actions, and Lord

knows the RCMP love to... tear them apart and call them illegal and whatnot. But like, what

would you do if you were sitting here and this was happening to your water, to your people,

and you never got a say in it? And frankly, like nobody around you, it's hard stretch to

find anybody who's really on board. And I imagine there's a feeling of helplessness, but then,

you know, the more connections you make, that feeling kind of breaks down a little bit. start

to realize your power, but that's a whole lot of nonsense to unpack too, right? I imagine

your notes are extensive trying to, if like you had to explain to me the ins and outs of

this one pipeline, right? The Prince Rupert gas transmission, right? You keep using it

up. That was the acronym, the PRGT. I thought it's just like one of three pipelines that

Changecourse just focused on in their most recent day of action. And like even I'm trying to

digest as much as I can to share it with the audience, right? On like the smallest little

basis, right? Just to give them, and I'm going, oh my gosh, my head is spinning and then I

name all the companies, right? And it's really at its root is just like this is unceded territory

and this agreement is, I mean, bogus. It's like a very inarticulate way to describe it, but.

15 years after environmental assessment, surely. mean, and for folks, just one of the details

there, it actually does like expire. It was supposed to be 10 years, right? Like it was

supposed to end and it was like just barely, right? Just barely. They like, what, put a

shovel in the dirt before the deadline and it was like, yeah, they, cleared a couple of kilometers

of trees and said it was like millions and millions of money they invested into this project. So

that's why they have to start it now. Yeah, that's an argument. think a lot of people,

we've already invested so much. We can't turn back now. It's like the whole theme of the

White Castle movie. It's just like, too far now. Just keep going. Forget the long-term

costs. don't work that into the discussion. And even, yeah, the discussion on LNG is kind

of in its infancy stages, right? Because the industry spent a lot of money telling us that

this was the clean alternative to the fossil fuels that we had already zeroed in on and

built campaigns around. And they're like, OK, fine. You know, it almost like, but LNG.

And it took us a while to be like, hey, no, wait. These are all so bad. So kudos to the

folks who just stuck with the no pipelines, right? Like I'm pretty sure putting pipes

through the earth and clear cutting trees and putting these next to water, no matter what's

in them, unless it's water, is a good idea. You know, I guess there's needs based for energy.

We could talk about that, but clearly that's not a good idea from an environmental perspective.

I don't care what your environmental assessment says. Like, plus like who sets those criteria

to like the government? It's not done in consultation with with Indigenous people where like that

real understanding of the land or anything. It's just like they're really, they're negotiated

numbers amongst industry. I mean, where are you folks at now? Like, so the, likely will

a blockade go back up? I mean, not perhaps associated with your group, but it's likely a tactic

that will be deployed. Are you folks planning things for folks who are already, that don't

need that, that educational stage? because you've probably got people in your community

that are enraged and wanting to channel that energy into things. Do you have any plans

that you can share with us? don't know. Right now, we're in basically just like a waiting

period stage. So our group is looking to finalize our calls to action because we're trying to

figure out our place we have in this since we're a group. We're not based on house hereditary

systems, which is what those pipeline agreements are based on different whelps which were signed.

So we can't really say like we have a collective behind the whelps or any house to be like stand

with us. We don't really have land to go use. So we're trying to really uphold the other

people that have land and they have a unified opposition on, but it's all waiting for the...

the BC government's decision if this assessment gets extended indefinitely or not. Lots of

people are wanting to help and we're like, yeah, I know you guys want to help, but we got to

find the best way right now. Folks can definitely start to follow your work and get informed

so they're ready to jump on board. But also I imagine, are you encouraging people to contact

the BC NDP? The folks that are about to make this decision, are we appealing to them? I

know sometimes that feels a little fruitless, especially the premier is very excited to

push through as many energy projects as possible right now because of Trump, or at least that's

the reason he's using. How tough of a spot to be in to kind of just hold your breath and

wait for the powerful to make a decision. And not that means it's going to either stop your

work or start it. You know, it's just a matter of having to choose a pathway at that point.

But yeah, no, it takes all kinds, right? Like there has to be folks that are out there educating

people because if you don't know the extent of it or even where to start, it's impossible

to even pick it up as a cause. We've been working with Dogwood too. They have some great things

on their website that can give you like a form and quick way to message or call the ministers

that will be regarding this decision. So you can go to their website and find some quick

easy ways to write an email or call one of the ministers and tell them they need a new environmental

assessment. through change course, they've been doing some day of actions for us just to bring

some awareness about the banking investments for these projects and how they're used in

all of our universities basically and how our money is funding these projects that Indigenous

people do not consent to. So I think that's really awesome that they're bringing awareness

to those and getting people to divest their money and pick where they want their money

to go to and have a say in that. I think it's also really important and powerful that we

can use to turn away these massive banks from investing in these horrible projects. We spoke

to Changecourse, I'll link both the call to action you mentioned with Dogwood and the episode

with Changecourse where they talk about their theory of change there on campus. I think we

called it stigmatizing capitalism on campus. But yeah, the five big banks were their most

recent targets. think RBC and Scotiabank being the worst offenders there, folks need to hone

in on that. We did share that action with our live audience. It's interesting to hear from

the organizers perspective as well, these groups working with one another. The amount

of work being done to try to lobby the BCNDP is also frustrating for me because for a lot

of progressive organizers and whatnot, that was an electoral victory. you know, seeing

so many resources and precious energy going into pleading with them. to the right thing,

let's hope the ruling goes in your favor. However, we are curious to hear what you'll be up to

afterwards, regardless. So when you get there, you'll have to check in with us and let us

know how we can move forward. Because even if it's a delay, there's still a fight on your

hands, right? Like it's not, it'll probably just be another environmental assessment ordered.

Yeah, it's a lot too. a lot to go through like I've never had to strategically plan before.

like trying to figure out how to be smart and stuff and just like coming new into all of

this is so much to learn. like so more on the hesitant side of like acting right away so

like I am no pro in this but I'm learning as I go and it's really interesting to learn the

different strategies and things. It takes a lot of planning and thinking. It does. mean,

even the smallest things take a lot of consideration. Things you don't even know you don't know.

Do you have elders that you can kind of lean on who have tried various tactics and used

different strategies and had them work or not work? We have lots of elders that we can go

to that have been having lifelong battles against industry. But that's something I really want

to incorporate more with our youth group now because Our youth group has just been doing

this basically all on our own so far. We haven't got really any help from any adults. It's just

been us. So I really want to bring in some people with expertise to help us wrinkle out the edges

and really solidify our group. Because most of us are just like, I've never done this before.

But we're learning and doing everything for the first time. So think that's our next move

is to really incorporate some knowledge from our knowledge keepers and get some tips

from what worked in the past and what didn't work. Yeah, I'm sure there's other nations

as well out there that have dealt with very similar situations, even just in BC. So, yeah,

and I love that maybe Perhaps you're making the BC government and the federal government

a little bit nervous, putting all these people in contact with one another. They rely on silos,

right? They rely on you being overwhelmed by your battle and other folks doing their thing.

But when folks join forces like this, it can be incredibly productive. Yeah, it's joy

to see a lot of different collectives coming together and hitting different pressure points,

right? Government. pressuring banks, someone's gonna break. Yeah. And partially we got to

learn a lot from the CGL that came in a few years before. our neighbors and my family,

I'm GetSanded with Houghton. So lots of the GetSands were in solidarity and showed up to

help their neighbors. So now we're going to have lots of help coming from our neighbors

this round. And we learned a lot from the last one. So we're coming in way more prepared.

And we understand how they work a little bit better now, but I know they're going to be

coming in swinging harder this time, too. Yes, I never want to put too much faith in court

rulings. The RCMP have I mean, they didn't face any repercussions out of it whatsoever. So

basically they did wrong things, but not enough to get punished for them is the extent. Or

to negate the arrests, right? folks still faced conviction. Not enough to get any repercussion

for that. The colonial state has a scale, a scale of racism they'll tolerate within the

legal system. We don't know what it looks like. It's very arbitrary. One judge gets to decide

what that is. Very frustrating. I'd like to think maybe at some degree they're like, maybe

they can't go in as hard as they did to those blockades. mean, but then again, I'm As I'm

saying this, I'm remembering that their tactics were not criticized whatsoever by the judge,

know, the using the dogs or having snipers in position. Not having identification. They were

all allowed to do that. So it's like, OK, so you say it's not allowed, but in this case,

they're allowed. So it's just saying an example basically that they can do things that they're

not allowed to and get away with it. In the law, yeah, and then that's where everyone else's

job steps in, right? Like at some point, not that we ignore the law, but that there are

other pressures involved and other sources of power that need to be taken into consideration,

we think. Right? And the idea is to just build them as forceful as possible so that they are

taken into consideration. Right? The youth must be heard on some of these issues. That's an

easy sell, I think, to most of the population at this point. I think a lot of my generation,

I'm not gonna say how old I am, but I'm older, coming to the realization that youth actually

perhaps know a little bit better and they're in a mindset that some of it is a little nihilistic,

just being immersed in all of this catastrophe all the time and going, well, well, fuck it.

know, I'm gonna, you know, I got nothing to lose. I'm fighting this, you know, it's not

an acceptance of that destiny, but if there's anyone reluctant out there to involve youth

in organizing or gasp, letting them lead, I think listening to you will help them maybe

dissolve some of those worries, but there's been plenty of examples out there of youth

stepping up in these times for all sorts of movements. So. Yeah, it is hopeful for us

old folks to see that it brings a new energy even to us. So I very much appreciate you

kind of coming in to share how that's going and how you got there. Maybe we can get more

folks, more youth to step up into these kinds of roles. agree. I think our meeting that

we had really opened the eyes to everyone because after that meeting, they saw how much of our

youth caring about these issues and putting time into learning about these issues and how

we're Lots of our youth are in school right now or graduated already. So we've already

went and learned all these different things to come back and help us at home. they're realizing

like, hey, kids actually know something. We have so many kids in environmental sciences

and in biology and just in the healthcare fields. Like we're getting super educated and coming

back and bringing that to our community. Not saying you need Western education to be smart,

but. It is a helpful tool fighting these Western systems. is. And it's no wonder, I guess,

so many youth from the community go into these fields, right? Even if they maybe don't see

themselves stepping into these types of roles, but just seeing these developments happen around

them surely influence what they want to learn more about, albeit from a Western. perspective,

but you know, got to know the tools your enemy are using just as much as you got to know your

own. Right. So, uh, there's, there's value in all sorts of that education, even though it

costs too much. Right. But that's another discussion for another podcast, I suppose. But thank

you so much, Drew, for not just coming on, but you know, the work on the ground that you're

doing and just know that you're doing a fabulous job and folks are learning from you all the

time. So. Very much appreciated. Thank you for having me. Glad I could share some and

maybe help someone learn a little bit more. I'm sure you did. And like I said, folks,

you want to know more, go to the show notes. will link you to Drew's organizations and some

of the articles that will explain the issues around the pipeline and LNG as well. So lots

for folks to continue learning from. Thanks to Drew. Awesome. Have me a. That is a wrap

on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank you for joining us. You can follow us

on Twitter at BPofDisruption. If you'd like to help us continue disrupting the status quo,

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