Speaker1: This is a Note To Future Me.
Hi, this is Brett Johnson, your host and the owner of Circle270Media Podcast Consultants.
In this episode, I talked to Pam Perry from Pam Perry, PR.
PR and Branding Solutions for Seasoned Speakers.
She has gone through many iterations of different podcasts, which in itself is a great
story. And we talk about each of those podcasts, those business podcasts that she created
for herself, as well as with some business partners and how all of those podcasts
together is now brought her to her current podcast.
Get out there and get known.
What she learned from all those podcasts and all those different techniques used in this
podcast is now culminated in this podcast she's creating right now.
Plus, she has some fantastic advice for business owners considering podcasting as a
marketing tool. Here's the interview.
Let's go back over your background in history a little bit, you know, talk about what you
do, you know, up to what you're doing today.
Speaker2: Ok, well, primarily the main thing is a publicist, that's my main road or that's my main
jam, how I got here working in media for the longest first job, working at the Detroit
Free Press, which was print.
Then I went into radio, which was really cool, which was an adult contemporary station.
And then I worked at a television station producing talk shows.
That was fun. And then I worked at a nonprofit as a PR director and that let me really
work with print, radio and TV all at the same time.
And I thought, this is really what I really like to do.
So really being in public relations lets me work with all of the different mediums.
And then, of course, then the emergence of social media that became the thing.
So then not only do publicists have to know the traditional media now, they get to know
the new media. So podcasting was part of that.
Speaker1: Right, exactly.
So mixed in with all this, obviously, you have another side to you working with a
nonprofit or non-profits.
What who do you work with?
How do you give your time talent to your.
Speaker2: That was one of the things when I worked in radio, had an epiphany one day that I was
working in radio and I was selling air.
I was in advertising sales and I was roughly about 30 years old.
And I was like, know, this is kind of like I don't know what it was, but it was like, I'm
selling gear, didn't really feel fulfilling anymore, made really good money.
I like the people that I work with.
They were fun. I was writing copy, so I did some creative stuff, but I wasn't fulfilling
and I just really stopped.
And I said, what do I really want to do with the rest of my life?
You know, at 30 I'm thinking like, oh my God, it's midlife crisis there.
I don't know what is going on.
And I spent a lot of time working with organizations that dealt with you, dealt with
career development, dealt with black kids that really were know, needed some guidance,
didn't have maybe the right family background.
And I really start spinning more and more time doing that.
Then my job, like I would spend like maybe 30, 40 hours a week on my job.
And then it was like 20, 30 hours working on the volunteer stuff on my own.
And I had this idea says, you know what, this is more fulfilling.
I so what if I could spend my time doing what I really love, which was a nonprofit
volunteer stuff is my job.
And that was where it really began.
I said, you know what I've worked for?
A nonprofit was called Joy of Jesus.
And we were raising money to send kids to camp, kids in the city to go to camp for the
summer. And we did it so that it was free for them.
And I had so much fun.
We raised money. We did telethons again.
We got them in the newspaper.
People were here and they were on the front page of the Free Press.
Actually, that was really cool.
And they had never had that.
We did a bit. I mean, just really wrap my arms around all types of media to get them some
exposure. And they raise a lot of money because I handed it was a small non-profit.
I think their budget was like maybe a million and a half.
So it was a real lean, kind of a real lean nonprofit.
I was the PR director, the director that the donor management, the newsletter editor.
It was it was fun, though.
I loved it worked so hard there until the point where I worked so hard.
It was like life and
Speaker1: Nonprofits can do that to people.
Speaker2: I mean, life really snakes.
Speaker1: Yeah.
Speaker2: I remember going to my executive director present there, Eddie Edwards, and I said, you
know what, I really like it here.
I said, but I'd like to get married one day.
I like to be able to have a life.
And he says, well, you know, like, yes, I love it here.
He said, I just don't want to work so many hours.
Listen, I know we can't really afford to hire more people.
And he said to me, he says, well, I'll help you find another job with the kids.
He says, it's your potential, he said, but your really best epper.
And he helped me get the job that I stayed at for seven years, which was it was a
strategic partner of ours, the Salvation Army.
And I stayed at the Salvation Army.
I was a PR director there, and it was we had a larger staff.
So I did I had like regular hours.
And that's really where I stayed the most.
And I love that the most because I've worked with the community, work with the media, and
we were doing good work. So that's what we like.
And so I work with people who try to make a difference in the world.
That's really it. People who try to make a difference in the world if they're doing.
Work, then I'm going to promote them, right?
That's it. It's like that felt so much for me when I worked in the radio station.
I mean, cars, donuts and I work for other PR firms will be promoted.
Just products and widgets wasn't at a certain point in time.
I learned the skill, but I didn't like what it was doing.
So. So as I got older, I said if I'm a spend so much time doing something has to be
something I enjoy and something that I know is making a difference.
And that's where that's really where it is.
And so I started my company in two thousand and a company name was mentioned Marketing
Solutions, very similar to like the Salvation Army.
We're working with churches.
And so we were working to promote churches and pastors and and really kind of things that
we're doing good in the community.
So that has been that the act, I call it, where we're marketing the message.
So we're marketing the good message messengers and whether it's inspirational speakers,
motivational speakers, that was that was the thing.
And it hasn't really changed.
And I'm really excited.
I'm still excited about it.
So when I have, I just talk with the client not too long ago in the work that she's doing
in the community, I get so geeky about it.
I was like, this is what I made for.
So I love doing that.
And. Yeah, it it has the only thing that has really changed from when I started to now is
the new media. Yeah, and we were just saying how much it is so much clubhouse, Instagram
or LinkedIn. And in in my clients, we're trying to figure it all out.
I said you don't have to do it all, especially if you're not good at it all.
Don't you don't have to do it.
All right. Just calm down.
You know, your message is the same.
How we deliver it is really based on their personality.
Speaker1: It's finding that that medium that your intended audience is actually there.
You know, so if they're not playing in this park, you go to the other park, you know,
that sort of thing.
Speaker2: If they're not on Twitter, you don't have to tweet, right?
Or Canley.
Speaker1: Exactly. Don't don't think that you're missing out on anything.
You're probably not.
Speaker2: A good example of that is Seth Godin.
Seth Godin is not on everything.
And he's a master marketer.
He's a master marketer.
He's like one of the four corners of the world.
He wrote the book The Purple Cow, but he's not everything he does blogging.
This is
Speaker1: A master's. Well, exactly what he does.
But this guy does actually has a podcast called Akimbo AK Impo.
And it is great.
You'll love it.
Speaker2: Yeah, it's going to listen to a Tembo.
Speaker1: Yeah, it's really good.
Just it's an it's a joy listening to him anyway because he's just so smart.
And what I like about him too.
And I think you do too, of course via the blogs he makes you think it's not necessarily
convincing you it's he's making you think and that's that's his big thing.
I watch it, which is enjoyable because it's one of those you need those moments in your
life during the day, just kind of go, OK, let's rethink this whole concept or a different
angle of looking at it and such.
So, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's it's been out maybe two or three years.
Yeah.
Speaker2: You'd enjoy it that long.
You been around forever.
But he, he probably thought about it a long time before he jumped into something new
versus entrepeneurs today, like oh my God, I've got to get on clubhouse, I just open up
Android, let me get on there.
I now know why don't you wait to see if it's really for you before you do anything new.
Right. Like what's working now.
Yeah. What's working now.
Exactly.
Speaker1: Do more of that. Yeah.
Yeah, you bet. Yeah.
When you contacted me to be on the podcast, we did a little bit of a pre interview and
you talked about I love your podcast journey because there's so many different ways of
doing multiple podcasts, whether you're doing podcasts, four of them at the same time, or
you start one and stop and start and stop a new one.
And and that is your journey.
And I I'm glad we're talking about this because I want to talk about, you know, your
previous podcast experience as the trailblazer into the current podcast.
And I think there are lessons to learn about starting and stopping and starting and
stopping. And I'm talking about a new podcast.
So talk about your first podcast a little bit and then let's get into the current one,
what you're doing, because I think, again, it's that it's that story of going from one to
the other that's very strong.
And then we can really dive into what you're doing right now.
Speaker2: I mean, when I first did, I think the other one was probably two thousand six or seven.
I'm not sure. But I was scared.
I was scared to podcast.
I really was no one was really doing a podcast that I knew.
And it was on BlogTalkRadio.
And I was so scared, but I knew I needed to do the podcast because my authors that I
represented for PR, I needed to be heard.
They needed to talk about their book.
And I said, OK, we're going to do this podcast is called Sakala Pages.
And we did a blog, talk radio.
We did probably a hundred or so shows.
I mean, and really I interviewed authors about their books, asked the same question.
So what inspired you to write the book?
What's your book about? Tell us your background.
And we did it. And they love talking about the book that we shared everywhere.
And it was some of my clients and then also just other authors that I just really
admired. And it became the point where I had celebrities on this blog, talk radio, so I
will never forget it. Kirk Franklin and Reverend Run, Damon Wilson from Sanford and son,
like on my blog talk radio, was just on the phone.
I would never then then I did another type of blog, talk radio show, not chocolate pages,
but at the same time, I was doing some genealogy show and the soon to energy show was
around the book that I co-wrote with another couple.
And we did this book called Synergy Energy.
And we really wanted to talk about partnerships and Internet marketing couldn't really
fit into the pages.
It was a totally different audience.
So we. Interviewed anyone who was in the digital marketing space at that time, it was
probably two thousand nine, I guess, maybe or so, and so we said, OK, so we'll do this
particular one.
And we've had chocolatiers.
It was primarily African-American.
Authors, as Angie was anyone who was in a digital space, so I had a lot of my friends
that were really like we were just really great plays in this realm of Internet marketing
space. And it was fun.
And we did that for about a year, I guess.
Probably did about fifty two is, you know, fifty two or more, I'm not sure.
And during that time I said, this is good talking about the book, talk about any about
Internet marketing, but I really want to talk about PR.
So then I created a show really.
So it could be kind of cathartic.
It was called to people and the Tupelo's was really so that I can talk with my colleagues
about PR like what's driving this crazy about our clients?
Why don't they get it?
Why don't they know how?
And so the two pros was really a show that I did on top to not talk show, but to.
Right. Oh, yeah. All these platforms.
So I talk to and it was really cool to have people on and people loved it.
And my colleagues, they said this is such a great idea.
You know, I love talking about this and stop doing so much of the other two shows started
doing the talk show. And then I did another show on talk show called Kingdom Connections,
and that was primarily anyone who was in the Christian ministry space.
And we talked about Christian ministry.
So fast forward, don't really do any more blog, talk radio show, blog talk.
Got a little bit too commercial, I guess you would say so.
It was just too commercial and too crunchy.
And that's what we need to do something else because this blogging BlogTalkRadio and this
talks you and like the sound didn't like the sound.
So we did another podcast.
Called the digital business acceleration, and this was using Bluebeard and we did two
issues and was really to explain to people the whole process of PR marketing, branding
and digital marketing.
And we did that with my partner.
Anita Sherman is still out there and on iTunes.
And we did it and we ran it through a website, had real microphones using Yeti's.
And that's what then we use them and did get anyway.
So we had a better production of that.
And I loved it.
And it was so much more that we didn't have guests or anything, but it was just us.
And we did fifty two issues.
And at that point it was like, OK, we have nothing else to say.
We've said it all. So that's it.
Like Forrest Gump. OK, well that's pretty much that's it.
And then I said, OK, the next phase is video.
Podcasting was real on the fence about that.
Oh my goodness. I was so on the fence about that because to do a video podcast means that
I have to have hair makeup done every single week.
Speaker1: You have to be on.
Exactly.
Speaker2: Yeah. And I said, well, I could do it once a week.
And so really what happened is I was doing it on stream streaming and it take it from
there and I'm doing it live on LinkedIn, I'm doing it live on YouTube and doing it live
on Twitter, which was will go away.
But it was OK. It was it was fine.
And that show is called Get Out There and Get Known.
It's a cross between probably all the other shows that I've done.
It's some authors is the minister, it's the media, it's of my PR colleagues, some of my
clients. It's called Get Out and Get Down, really to explain to people how to get out
there and get known as a publicist.
What do we how do we get this done?
And that's really it's been like the most fun podcast to do because it is video and it
also streamed live.
So you get live interaction a little bit there.
And it's also on my website with show notes because the other ones really didn't have
shown up. They were they were crunchy.
The other ones were I don't know what they were.
They were just. Byles basically at the bottom of the charts by evicting someone, it was
we've grown so much so yeah.
So that's where we are right now.
We're doing a real grown up podcast, video, podcast with show notes that are that is
running on Pam Perry, even your Perry podcast dot com in.
That's up. Oh, yeah, that's something.
Speaker1: And it's something
Speaker2: You needed to do. Yeah.
Oh my God. Before it was like BlogTalkRadio forward slash davidov of that.
Speaker1: So have fun.
Have fun trying to have somebody find that.
Yeah, exactly,
Speaker2: And they're not there. Some of those shows are not there when you do not own your RSS
feed. You don't own it, so BlogTalkRadio took it down and it's not there.
So all of those, quote unquote celebrities that I talked to from Yolanda Adams to Kirk
Franklin to demand Will said they're gone.
I click it in there. I mean, I had some really good guests and I was like, oh, my God, I
interview them, not Google it.
And I hit it and it's just not there.
I'm like, Yeah.
So you learn so well and you're on your own feet.
You use Lipson Blueberry, something like that.
Speaker1: Just, you know.
Right. Well, and I was just going to go to that point of you going through all the
iterations of the different podcasts that you did.
You brought all that knowledge to what you're doing right now, amazingly enough.
So I think it's a lesson in that.
Just do it, get in there and start, because even if you fail, you've learned something
and you start again with something else.
Speaker2: Yeah, I remember my very first podcast I was doing.
It wasn't sure that if I.
Started it right, if I hung up, right?
Was it did it take I mean, just nervous and it ended up working.
I would never say to someone to start a BlogTalkRadio, I would say start.
You know, things are different now, but start at a at a place where I mean, I've even had
people who have done conference calls and then they've converted into a podcast.
They upload it that way.
I mean, but to get the information out and just start, it's so important.
And Anker's OK to my daughter uses that I wouldn't recommend it because you don't own it.
And it's just was recently bought by Spotify.
But if you have to start there, start there, it's just download them and then put them
somewhere else.
Speaker1: But you know, but I know what you're doing now.
I know what you're walking into.
Yeah, well, let me ask you, because you did start and stop.
I think some podcasters tend to go on longer than they ought to in regards to their life
of their podcast. It's kind of like you said, we knew we had to stop.
But some people continue on going.
I think you should have stopped a few episodes ago.
How did you come to the conclusion on those podcasts?
We're done. It was a different on each one that you just knew you had the conversation
with your co-host or it just it just dawned on you like, we're done.
This is it.
Speaker2: We got it became evident on the well, say, the Digital Business Acceleration podcast.
After fifty two episodes, we went through a blueprint of what is required to really get
your digital business up and going.
And I guess we went through that and then we kind of elaborated and we elaborated and it
was like, OK, we can't figure anything else to say.
We've said it all.
The whole point of this podcast was to I mean, because we kept referring back to go back
to episode number fourteen, go back to episode number twenty to go.
It's like we've said it all.
So we're doing podcast number thirty nine, telling people to go back to podcast number
twelve. It's like so you're kind of like done with this because you've set it off.
That's when you know the point of the podcast and we won't have a guess.
Now if you have guessed it's a little bit different because you can always find different
guests. But that particular one was like a business podcast that really had to show
people how to the steps of how to really accelerate business online, be the one with two
pros that really ended, because the standpoint as far as I knew, I had interviewed all my
friends I knew, I didn't know any more.
I mean, we were just it was like shoptalk so we could go back and interview him again.
But I had really run out of the the guest that I knew that that I'm on.
I guess it was like really seasons.
It's like seasons like 13 weeks.
Twenty six weeks, that kind of thing.
Like chocolate pages could have probably kept on going.
But I think for me, I didn't like the format that didn't like the the format of the it
became too commercial and it was a lot of shows.
They're the same as you.
Angie was for a book. A book once.
Yeah. Yeah. Book Lost.
And that was pretty much it.
It didn't have anything more to say there.
Yeah. So it just depends.
Now get out there and get know.
How do I know when I'm in that.
I don't know. I mean it's, it's, it's like it's a combination of everything I've done.
So I interviewed many people which is really good in a lot of media.
People are writing books and things like that.
And then I always will have some clients on there as well.
And then I'll also have, you know, solo episodes about different things that are going
on. So maybe I'll do a solo episode about clubhouse.
So those are the things.
But it is a video podcast was the first one I've done.
So I'm not sure how long it would go.
But I think anyone if you're going to do a podcast, do it for a season like you would do
a TV show 13 weeks, twenty six weeks, that kind of thing.
Yeah, it gives it a little bit more and you can change it.
So the following season, if I were to do as well, this season is only going to be me or
this season is only going to be people or this season will only be authors.
That could be something that you could do.
But the most part, we do need some consistency.
Speaker1: Yeah, because I work with the new new podcast.
That's kind of a common theme.
And I think they don't outright ask this, but I think it's in the back of their mind
going, OK, I start something, but how do I stop it or how long do I have to go?
And they they don't realize the seasons, the the aspect of like we can just produce ten
when you're done and then start a whole nother thought.
Maybe ten is just you talking.
And can be interviews 10, can be with a co-host, it can do whatever you want to do, but
it's the planning of it that makes the big difference.
That way, you know, it's all in pencil if you want to do 13 episodes in that genre, in
that category. That's fine, too.
But the big thing is knowing where you're going with it, your thing,
Speaker2: And so the audience knows where you're
Speaker1: Going. That's true, too, to make it very comfortable for them.
And that then leads me to my next question to you, too.
You're bringing all this knowledge from all these different types of podcasts that you
did interview solo, that sort of thing.
So how is your current podcast showcasing your expertise now that you've added video and
you do are doing interviews and some solos I get you're mixing it all together.
How is it showcasing you?
How are you making that work for you?
Speaker2: It's interesting because I've interviewed some of the best TV anchors and
was I don't really think about it because I thought of them as my friends.
And so one was Shaun Robinson, Emmy Award winning news.
She was on Entertainment Tonight or something like that.
And then Linda else.
She was an anchor for like twenty five years.
And I'm just really interviewing them because I'm comfortable with them, because they're
my friends and we're talking about media.
And so people have says you're really good at this.
And so they're they're looking at me knowing that I've never done quote unquote
television like the TV people.
Even Sareen, she was just on and she teaches media and they're thinking like, you're
really good. And so that makes people feel comfortable with I don't have to be a TV
anchor or trained in journalism in order to do a video podcast, because I'm definitely
not. I'm not I have never been in front.
I've always produced, but I've never been in front.
And so that has been real interesting because I get people that will hit me up and
LinkedIn and says, I really like to work with you.
You seem to really be comfortable with helping people get out there and get known because
we don't know who you are, but you're so funny.
And so I was like, that's really interesting, because when I think about it, I was like, I
did interview an anchorwoman who had been on the air for over like three decades.
And and I didn't feel I didn't feel like I I didn't compete against her or anything like
that. I mean, I just really was trying to get into her head how she does what she does.
Something like that seems to come off to people like don't be afraid of the media.
Don't be afraid to get in the media and you can do this type of thing.
That's that's really that's really kind of cool because I didn't realize that was not the
intention. When I did the video podcast, it was it was more or less like to do something
different at this point because that new video podcast was was more the thing.
But, yeah, that that part was a little bit different that I didn't realize that that part
would would be how that would hit with people like here's this person who is typically
behind the scenes interviewing someone who's always on the air.
Right. Songhua.
So that it's been interesting.
Yeah.
Speaker1: Who's your intended who's your intended audience then for your podcast?
Speaker2: If people who are authors and speakers who really want to learn how to leverage the media
and allowed them don't know how to pitch because you're.
Well, they do know how to pitch, but they're scared.
They're scared of really like what do I say?
Who do I say to and who are these people that I would pitch to?
And so I'm really just trying to humanize that what what media people are looking for.
So their human side that, yes, you're pitching to real people and for them to get to
know. So authors and speakers are feeling more connected to the the people who are on the
air and the PR people and want them to come on and really talk to authors and speakers
about, you know, what not to do, because I say it all the time and say, don't do this,
don't do that. So I had my friends come on, say the same thing.
I say, don't do this, don't do that.
So I'm not always the bad cop.
So, yeah. So that is that that's really intense.
And people who are authors and speakers who really want to know how to leverage the media
and then once they get media, how to work the media, what do you do with it?
It doesn't make sense. If you're on the morning show, if you just say, oh, I was on the
morning show and then you go and sit down somewhere.
But how do you leverage it to really make it work for you?
You know,
Speaker1: It sounds like with this with this iteration of your podcast and videocast, you needed to
implement video, then your client's potential clients that you're interviewing through
this medium they need.
To be comfortable, you need to figure out if they're comfortable in front of a camera and
if they're not know, OK, this is a challenge that we need to overcome because maybe just
talking to you during this videocast didn't go well so much so that I could see where
that would be a really important part of why you went in the video.
That's that's.
Speaker2: Yeah, yeah. It was it was the next iteration of that.
It started Colvert after Kowit.
So people were used to seeing people on video.
A lot of different colored people did start a lot more podcast, but a lot of people
didn't start video podcast.
But I knew that was the face that I had to go into next year.
Like I said, I thought it for a while.
And then I said, OK, just bite the bullet and let's do it.
Speaker1: Do it right. Right.
Speaker2: And everybody said, what would happen to is it?
I would if my hair makeup is done, I'll do three shows.
Speaker1: Hey, take advantage of a good day.
Speaker2: You're right that the days that we're going to show this day.
OK, well, that's how I was working it.
And and so so far, I think we're in episode number forty.
OK, yeah.
Well you. Yeah. Then it's been easier than I thought.
Speaker1: Yeah. Well once you get on a roll you're right.
All of a sudden like, wow, I've got a library now.
Yeah. This is great. You mentioned some, some drive by comments with LinkedIn posts and
such. And so what is your social media strategy with this.
So you create the content, you've got the audio and video piece to it.
Where are you promoting this and how are you doing that?
Speaker2: Yes, so LinkedIn is where I stream it.
So that's where it is.
That's primarily where I am.
I'm showing up live with it.
So I do the stream and I'm going into LinkedIn and I will actually see and talk to people
on LinkedIn. It is also on Twitter and it's also on YouTube.
But I'm not interacting with them on those platforms.
It is primarily on Panzeri podcast that the the actual video podcast with the show notes
because that's where if I had a guess or resources and things like that, that's all in
the show notes when it's live, it's just really it is just broadcast there.
No show knows there. But I let people know to go to the show notes.
I don't really promote it on Facebook as a stream.
Once it's there with the resource notes and things like that, I will put it on Facebook,
I will put it on Instagram out of the fact that.
I have to say, I have five thousand people on Instagram, but I don't get a lot of
interaction, my audience is not there, this primarily on LinkedIn.
So that's really where I spent that's where I get business from, from LinkedIn.
Instagram is cute.
I do autographs and things like then on Instagram, but for the most part, I take the the
ones that episode is on Panzeri podcast Dotcom.
I take the show notes and that is the caption and then the audiogram is the Instagram
square. And so I have a pet like this one with the podcast and Inessa Personality
Pictures or whatever, then one with the pod cast with the show notes at the bottom in
that sort of thing. Sometimes I pull out of the pull quote from the clicked a tweet on
the on the show notes page.
But for the most part it's, it's really on the website and it goes up to my email list,
which is primarily the main one.
So whenever it is on my website with the video and the show notes, they can also listen
to. So obviously it's not just on video, but they can listen to all the different places
as well. It goes out to my email list in the form of a newsletter.
So every week they get up like an episode.
Right. And that's really it.
It's my email list and LinkedIn.
The other stuff is there, but it's not the main driver for business.
Speaker1: You're not losing sleep awareness.
You're not losing sleep over it, right?
Yeah. So you're prep for your guest.
Much different than recording just a straight audio because you have the video component.
Can you walk through a little bit of that, how you get your guests prepared, ready to do
video versus just an audio recording?
Speaker2: Yeah. So because they are media people is is easy for now where if it was like if I was
doing four pages or soon to injure any of those other shows, it probably go, no, I don't
want the video, but this one is more or less like I am interviewing TV people.
I just talked to someone yesterday who is a print reporter, but she actually does a lot
of print. People are doing video now, so she's there.
The Michigan Chronicle, they have their own they built their own studio.
Newspapers have to do that now in order to stay relevant.
So they have their little studio.
So she had no problem with doing video because she likes doing video.
Now, the the the PR people, any of them that I've interviewed, they're ready.
They're just ready to do, you know, they teach their their clients how to show up on
YouTube so they know how to show up on.
So I remember it was one lady, Valerie, and she talked about tips and tricks on how to
show up on Zoome.
And that was really kind of cool.
So I was the the person that didn't show up.
Right, like she was talking about this is oh, not like this.
And so I would turn my light down.
I said, what about having some dangly earrings on issues like you're not like that.
So it was just kind of like this or or how about if I'm just doing it like this and then
pull up to the camera?
And so that was really cool because she had to explain her book and I was showing
examples of like what not to do.
So that was that was kind of cool.
Yeah. So we have fun with it.
Like I said, most of the people that I asked, they're real comfortable with that part.
And no one has really asked me.
No one has really said no.
Like, I don't want to do it right there.
They're ready for video.
I let them know that it is.
Now, I did have someone say if this was on, I did have someone say and this was this was
different. Sean is an Emmy Award winning producer.
So before the show started, we were both on the screen at the same time.
And I said, okay, we're about to go a lot.
And she says, remove me from the screen.
That's what she said, put me behind stage.
She says, introduce me and then bring me up.
And I hadn't done that before.
So from now on since then, I've done that.
I will come on, just me introduce my guests and then bring them up.
And that was a really cool touch.
Instead of having she says, because the person is sitting there and you're they're just
sitting there and you're just reading your bio, I'm like, oh, OK.
Yeah, I think that's your that's
Speaker1: A real good tip.
Yeah, that's a really good tip.
You didn't think about that or or if you didn't realize that you do you have the ability
to do that, that it's there and the software is like, oh yeah, I can bring you on.
You don't have to be there right immediately.
You've established it prior to recording.
But like, OK, I'm going to copy off now and bring you back on.
That's that's that's show biz.
That's that's really cool.
Speaker2: Yeah. Yeah.
I do have a like a little cool open and close as well, so that's kind of cool.
It's a video open and close.
I have not put like a commercial of my membership program in there because it's still
kind of working that out.
But I don't know how I would do that flow would work, putting a commercial in between and
I know some podcasts, do you know like, OK, now we'll come right back and then there's a
commercial. But I don't know, I'm feeling a certain way about this.
Some people said I should do it.
I've never done it right.
I've never put a commercial.
Yeah. I think it disrupts the the personal ness of it.
Speaker1: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a big decision, quite frankly.
You really have to figure out what if you're comfortable with it then.
Yes. But then almost get some feedback from your audience as well too.
I may be putting some things in.
What do you think. At least you're you kind of figure out from them where you can go.
Yeah, it's it's tough.
It's tough,
Speaker2: Especially if you have like a streaming at the bottom of the website.
That's that's fine.
That's unintrusive.
If you're if you're watching it, you'll see streaming at the bottom.
But to have a commercial right in the middle of the podcast just seems intrusive to me
right now. But maybe next year I'll do it.
I don't know. Right. Right now, it's it just seemed like the podcast is so personal.
It doesn't seem like I should put a commercial in the middle of, like, you know, doing a
membership program.
Speaker1: Right. Well, and as you mentioned, you do have the the option for the scroll on the video.
So another positive component of doing video as far as whether it's your main vehicle for
the interview or secondary, at least, you know, it's there to be able to be used.
So it's a good thought to.
So you have to have some challenges, I imagine, with producing the podcast beyond the
being prepared to know that I look good today.
I'm doing three. You know, I mean, that's that's that is an issue with or you feel good
and you want to do three because there's people can read that via videos like she's off.
She's not feeling good today.
I can tell, you know, that's her thing.
What what are some other challenges that you've run across with this new podcast?
Speaker2: I would say the main thing is it about, say, the topic, so to speak, but because it is
very narrow, get out there and get known.
How many ways can you talk about how to get out there and get known?
So it is good when there are new types of things that are that are hitting the same like
clubhouse and things like that.
But it is like how do you keep it going so that we're always talking about getting out
there and getting know, like, how many ways can we say that?
So right now, like I said, we haven't we haven't run out of topics.
I've interviewed some people that have books on marketing.
So that has been interesting.
A lot of the media people are basically kind of saying the same thing, but people like to
know the media. So I go on to their their background, how I get started and why they
started. So that's interesting for people.
But it's going to come to the point where pretty much marketing is marketing.
Speaker1: Yes.
Speaker2: It's like it's a marketing is my right.
Speaker1: And as long as we walk out of Kopa to, you know, now the advantages of the face to face.
So I think all of a sudden now we are going to be reenergized to do the networking or the
the, the tours, the book tours or whatever the case might be.
And so I have a feeling there's going to be some different things come up from that.
Well, we used to do it this way, but now we're doing it this way, whether it's hybrid,
like we were talking at prerecording of hybrid conferences of how to do that.
I can imagine we're looking at a whole different scenario walking out of this, just the
face to face stuff that
Speaker2: We need to show.
A lot of events are going to be online and just really understanding how to do that.
I was on a new platform yesterday, I think was er meet, I think it is er meat and it was
very similar to happen I guess where you would talk and you have a stage and then you go
and you network for like speed networking for ten minutes, then you come back to the
stage. And so that was a whole different kind of a feel to an event that we were on.
And you could still chat like you could in Zoom, but you can network face to face with
the people who were at the conference.
So, yeah. So that those are the kind of things that I can see that I'll be talking about
in the future of future episodes, because it is get out there and get known really to
part of it is mindset too.
I think that a lot of people who listen to the episode are experts, they know their
craft, they know what they know, and they're really good at it.
But to pitch themselves out.
To get out there is where they get stuck.
They want to get no, but it's like I've got to put myself out there.
So a lot of his mindset, a lot of it is rejection, like a fear of rejection.
Or tenacity like I did called them.
They didn't call me back. Well, you can call them again.
I did. I called them three times.
Well, you've got to call them again so people will know that.
That's typical because the media when I rang the media on, they say I'm busy.
I get seventy five calls a day.
Three hundred emails.
I may not get back to you, so call me again.
They have to hear the media say that often enough for their mindset to say it's not
personal. Right.
It's not. It's never personal.
So so that's that's part of it to really go into the mindset of it.
So probably I'll have some people maybe to talk about that portion of it or my solo
shows. We'll talk about that and also to about relationship building and talk about that
a lot. I said anybody here on my podcast feel free to reach out to the media that you
heard here and let them know you heard them on the podcast.
All right. That's a real good way to just make an introduction.
Hey, Mr. Media, I heard you on get out there getting on podcast.
And I hear that you're looking for whatever they're looking for.
And I'd like to tell you about me, because you said you were looking for that type of
guess and that type of guest.
I want them to realize that they can do this themselves.
And I find that it's almost like swimming.
It's like sometimes you could show someone lessons and lessons and lessons and they get
it. But then they're sometimes like, OK, I've given you enough lessons.
I'm a push you up into the pool and you're going to swim or you're going to sing.
So which when you go, do you know those lessons?
So you can't swim. And it's only three feet, but it still puts you up in the pool.
So that's really like where the whole part of this happens, because as a publicist, I did
things for my clients.
But today people can really be their own publicists and it's OK.
And I know that's a new way to think of things like I can't be my own publicist.
Yes, you can't. It's it's it's the gatekeepers are gone.
You could go directly to them.
And so that's where I'm just trying to train and teach people that you can't put yourself
to a print reporter, to a radio talk show host, to a TV producer, to a TV host.
It doesn't matter. You can pitch yourself.
It's OK as long as you know how to do it.
And I think a lot of people are thinking, like, I don't know how to do it.
And that's where the show every single week has to stay fresh, like, yes, you can do it.
That's really the whole point.
Yes, you can do it yourself.
And a lot of people think they want to start at CNN.
And it's like, no, let's start with the smaller ones first and then you can go to seeing
it and maybe you'll never get on seeing them.
Maybe your audience isn't watching CNN.
He ever thought about that and like, oh, you know, you're right.
I'm a I don't know, I'm a podiatrist.
I'm a foot doctor.
Maybe they're not watching CNN.
Maybe my audience is not there.
Maybe my audiences, I don't know, in a different place.
Maybe they're reading a different magazine.
I would be better if I was in this magazine versus CNN because I always tell people you
can overshoot the media, you can overshoot, you can be in a large one and it overshoot.
And then you're the people who are watching it.
The small sliver of that is your audience, whereas you could go in a different type of
medium and be the big fish in that pond, this small pond, and get a lot of business,
which is the whole point of getting know and getting out there.
Right. It's business.
Exactly. To bring people back to that.
Like, why are you doing publicity again
Speaker1: And check the ego at the door because, yes, your ego is getting in the way a
Speaker2: Little bit. It is time to talk about that the other day.
If I ego marketing is when it has no relationship to anything that you're doing for
business. It's just all ego and that you won't get your pay.
Speaker1: Right. Right, exactly.
Exactly. Yeah. So let's end on some advice for business owners considering podcasting is
a marketing tool. This is exactly what you're creating the podcast for, is to for you
what some advice that you would give a business owner.
They'd contact you saying, you know what, I love what you're doing.
This is a home run for you.
I think I need to do this.
How what advice would you give them?
Speaker2: And especially for speaker speakers really want to do a podcast and they they should.
But what I would say is making sure that the quality is really good, that you're proud of
it, the sound quality, all of that, and making sure that the things around the podcast,
the website, that part looks really good and you could promote it.
So I have a.
It has a great podcast, but the stuff around it is so junky when they go straight to her
site that I just said, you need to fix this up, you need to know people are going here.
You don't even have an option to you get I don't even know what it is you're selling or
what you do. And so I would say, you know, when you have the podcast, put it on your site
and send out to your list.
Your list does not go to your website every single week.
They they probably they will never probably even go back to your site, so you have to
send it out. So I think getting people I get too many emails, but if you just say, hey,
episode and what the title was people and I just find that people are just podcasting and
they never share it.
They share on social, but not to the people who they are trying to nurture into clients.
And that's where you have to do it.
It's almost like.
It's almost it's almost like getting a video in the email, like a straight video, like
sometimes you get like a video, like a loan to someone.
It's like that. It's just so you're going to your list and you're giving them something
that they can listen to from you.
So that's that's a big tool.
You can't get more personal than that.
And so a lot of times you've got the podcast and I'm going to do this program and I'm a
share it out here and that's fine.
But make sure that it goes out to your list.
They click it goes to the podcast page.
They read the show notes and they understand what you're selling or what the offer is if
you have an offer, because a lot of times people just podcast and they bring in guests on
the net and say, but if you realize it is part of their page and this is their offer,
then it will grow your business.
If not, it's just it's an expensive hobby and nobody wants that.
So I would tell people, make sure that you do that and it will grow your list.
And also to tell people, please, like share and subscribe, you know, just do that, don't
you? If you don't tell people they don't know how to like it, share it and subscribe.
Mm hmm. And that's one of the key things.
And, you know, sometimes if people are leaving reviews, sometimes you can, you know, give
them a shout out on the podcast.
We used to do that with digital business acceleration and we would read their things and
people like that. But, you know, just really nurture your your tribe, nurture the people
that are listening and nurturing your list, but letting them know that they're getting it
first. Sometimes you don't want to put it out in social media and then say, oh, by the
way, let me set it up to my list, send us your list first and then put it on social
media. You know, because what happens is you train your list to ignore you and just watch
you on social media.
Speaker1: Right. And I think if we and I've said this to my clients numerous times, just consider
social media a billboard as you're driving along the highway.
Yeah, it's five or six seconds of their attention.
That's that's all it is.
And it's and if you consider it, that's the value of what social media is.
That's a different mindset of like how much time do you put into social media, what the
value and what does catch somebody's eyeball to stop scrolling with their thumb, OK?
Yes, that's that's good.
But that's about all it will do for you.
Don't don't don't forget about the people that you talk to all the time through your
email.
Speaker2: And it doesn't sound as sexy, though.
It's like billboards are that billboards are like, oh, I got a billboard that's so sexy.
That sounds cool, but it's like, who really is saying it in a nanosecond writing path,
right? Versus that I sent out a email to my list of five thousand people that
Speaker1: You're getting a click through of maybe 20, 30 percent.
You're hitting a home run with that.
Emails like that's golden.
Speaker2: Don't like the bill so sexy because it's a billboard, right?
Like, um, I got
Speaker1: Fifty likes on this post like.
But did they do any thing.
No, I didn't do anything other than the obligatory like you're fifty or people
Speaker2: Of the ego marketing.
The ego marketing that that is the ego marketing.
Yeah. I had someone tell me since I got a billboard in Times Square I was like, oh that's
nice. And they paid for it.
And I'm thinking like, I probably would have paid for, I don't know, Facebook ads, maybe
more so than a billboard in Times Square.
Speaker1: Yeah, yeah.
That's a perico.
Speaker2: But this one will bring you business.
Speaker1: Yeah. About it. Yeah.
Speaker2: Unless you're putting it because they didn't get the dopamine from, from my Facebook and
yeah. They get the dopamine from getting the point to the billboard.
They went out, they flew all the way to New York to stand in front of the billboard.
As it is it does the digital part.
It goes on for a second and they had to wait till their part came up and then they point
it. That was it.
And then it became this social media post that they just really got more dopamine from
now. It's like, oh, my goodness.
So I was like, yeah, that's not what I would have done with my money if I want to do
business. But then again, everybody has a different reason for doing things.
I do. The whole thing about ego.
Makan it was the hardest thing to really talk about because in the room were nothing but
like big banners of people all around the world and these banners of just big six feet
tall pictures of all these people.
And I just said, OK, so you've got to stand in front of your own.
Kids are taking a picture and put them on social media.
How much business will that bring?
Speaker1: Yeah, yeah.
You almost have to just let them go through the exercise and realize didn't happen did
it.
Speaker2: And this is just me as a publicist, because I've been doing this so long, it's like the
emperor has no clothes.
OK, don't let people sell you that.
That has no meaning.
There's no meaning.
It's not going to help you move the needle of getting business right.
And so it goes back to like high school, like who's popular.
It's not it's like but really, it's it's high school, your business.
So let's let's kind of like not really.
The social media has made everybody just really feel that certain way.
And you've got to know that it has to work in concert in terms of people either inquiring
about your business or even known about your business.
Having the big picture of yourself and posting one every single day will not pull people
in as a customer unless you're a model, I guess.
But I said most people are just willing to say, I don't care if nobody else sees it.
I just want to see pictures of myself.
I said, OK, yeah.
And then you hit.
All right.
I can't argue with that. Right.
You hit your head.
Speaker1: Yeah, exactly. Well, this has been a treat.
Thank you for contacting me.
This has been a fantastic interview.
Can you leave us some contact information here at the end?
What's the best way to reach you?
Obviously website.
But at the same time, what are your favorite places to to connect with people?
Speaker2: Yes. Thank you, Brett.
Thank you for having me. I think my favorite place is on LinkedIn.
I love LinkedIn.
I'm Kampia coach on LinkedIn and you can connect with me there.
You've got to put it in my email in order to connect.
But it's Pam at Pam Purepecha.
And so I would love to connect with people at LinkedIn.
I'm also on Instagram as well.
But that's not where I really hang out LinkedIn.
I am really Twitter too.
I do like Twitter. I'm happy on Twitter.
So that's kind of like a cool place.
That's where I always tell my clients to go there because the media hangs out on Twitter.
So Twitter is pretty active there as well.
Speaker1: Ok, well, again, thank you so much.
And giving me much more time than I was really asking for.
And I'm glad we could go this long, but this has been so interesting.
Speaker2: This is really good because we could talk about this all day, especially the podcast and
card. It has really changed.
Who knows, maybe in a couple of years it'll change even more.
I don't know what, but yeah.
Speaker1: Yeah, well, there there's always these little nuances of podcasting that continue to be
tweaked. And now now the paid piece of it, you know, that Apple has implemented
implemented that you can now do the subscribe piece, which really has been here a long
time on other platforms.
It's just now better known because it's on a bigger platform.
But but it's so you know, it's so disheartening to hear so many people go negative
against podcasts or they're jumping into this so fast and thinking this is going to be
the next best thing since sliced bread.
But they're not reading the devil in the details in regards to how much it's really going
to cost you. Is it really something?
Well, like we talked about, is it something that your audience you think you have content
that's going something's going to pay five dollars a month for.
Yeah, that's the question you have to answer first and then start reading.
OK, that's going to cost me to do this, to do this, to to do this.
It's not just five bucks.
You're going to get five bucks. You're going at five bucks minus, minus, minus with
everything else. Is this the best alternative if you're going to start selling your
content? So but I think what they're doing is good in regards to showcasing the bigger
picture of that. You know what?
Content creators should be paid for their stuff if that's what they want to do.
If that's their goal.
Yes, because a lot of platforms have been riding on the backs of content creators for a
very long time and making money off of free podcast content.
So I think that that ship is turning a little bit slowly.
But we're getting there that it's now it's, you know, training the listeners kind of
going, yeah, there's some good stuff out there and some of it's worth five bucks a month.
It is. You know, whether it's just straight out the content plus more or whatever.
So, yeah, you're right, in two or three years, the conversation could be much different
in regards to more people on the paid side versus free.
And it hopefully elevates content and makes it much, much, much better than it
Speaker2: Got and will make the content straight content versus maybe content.
That is sales pitches, right?
Speaker1: Oh, for sure. For sure.
No one's going to pay for that, you know.
No, they don't
Speaker2: Want to be really upset.
So that will make it make the content really richer.
If people are paying for person, you know, people can use podcast as a marketing tool and
so people will know, OK, and listen to it for free.
I'm going to probably have to hear it.
Yeah, that's right. That's fair.
That's a fair exchange. People understand.
And it's like they're not just podcasting.
I mean, there are some podcasts out there that are doing it just for.
Content reasons or whatever, maybe they're an actor or a speaker or something, and they
just want to give out content, but eventually they do want to get paid for something.
Right. And speakers who do podcasts, they want to get hired.
You know, they're giving out good copy, but they want to be hired as a speaker.
Speaker1: Exactly. Yeah. Good.
Well, good. Well, thanks again.
I really appreciate your time.
This has been fantastic.
And good luck continuing on with your current podcast.
I'm sure there will be other ones down the road to swing back together and talk about it.
Next one as
Speaker2: Well. Yes, yes.
Me and my daughter were doing one.
So we'll we'll see how that goes with the millennial here.
That's good advice. You must keep going with it.
Yeah.
Speaker1: Sounds good. Sounds good.
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